Whilst I can't comment as my doctor says my IQ has tripled listening to Forrest, You'd assume that 100% would have poor replication value. I want to check your methodology sir, Excuse me, what was your p value and confidence intervals? 🧐
3:07 Amir (he/him) - Theist | Caller claims that he can demonstrate there's evidence for a creator god. 57:57 Troll caller. 1:01:16 Dakota (he/him) - Atheist | Caller explains why he thinks that religious people, by default, should believe in other supernatural beings, like ghosts. 1:09:16 Bobby (he/him) - Agnostic | Caller claims that polytheism is more likely than monotheism. 1:16:04 Pip (they/them) - Atheist | The problem of some atheists with religious thinking. 1:28:48 Charles (he/him) - Atheist | Caller claims that "sex is binary, there are no exceptions." 2:01:47 Forrest (and Dr Ben as well) schools some people with basic biology facts. 2:10:24 Superchats.
“Without a creator, there is no motive for anything to exist”. Genius! When you ASSERT there was a motive, then an intelligent agent is the most probably cause. Good job. Just entirely circular. Instead of studying philosophical apologetics, Amir really needs an entry-level course about logical fallacies.
Atheists always stumble in discussions of meaning. They usually resort to meaning being a social construct. Is a pitbull tearing off your leg inherently bad or is it determined by a social construct?
@@timothykeith1367 No stumble here. That’s a social construct. That would be “bad” because society almost unanimously agrees we wouldn’t like that. But if it turned out that I’m actually happy about a pit bull tearing my leg off, then it would be a good thing to happen. With over 8 billion people on this planet now and lots more past and future, you have to concede that there is at least one person for whom that would be a good thing to happen. And yet, if a pit bull tears off the leg of someone besides that one person in an odd case, that would be bad. Good and bad really are just relative. It might also be the case that it would be a good thing for a pit bull to tear the leg off someone who DOESN’T want that to happen - such as, say, a dog successfully defending an innocent person from an assailant. This is good for the potential victim, but it’s bad for the assailant. All else being equal, from a purely ethical standpoint, I’m happy to call that a good thing… RELATIVE to the suffering caused vs. wellbeing promoted.
Clearly there are 10 types of people in the world, the ones that understand binary, the ones who don't and the ones that did not expect this joke to be in base 3
Charles destroying his own argument when Forrest pulled up the red to blue color spectrum and then immediately trying to backtrack when he realized his mistake was the best thing I've seen in a while. What a dishonest person he is.
He had been walked through everything, he had acknowledged their points over and over again but would never give up on his position in the least. I've listened to a lot of shows from The Line and the ACA and I don't recall anyone that was ever this completely stubborn. Most people would just refuse to acknowledge all their examples. But this guy saw their point, knew they were right, but just wouldn't give. Even people like Otangelo would at least acknowledge they weren't going to change their mind.
while I agree somewhat, the interesting thing here is that a computer screen is a binary system, and it showed the color spectrum that was used as an example against a binary. despite the fact it's a spectrum, it being in a computer screen shows how something that is binary can still yield a spectrum. so it doesn't technically defeat Charles argument, it kind of enforces it...
I love that when Forrest repeated Charles' own inane "it's strictly binary" arguments back at him, Charles said "i'm confused by that!" Charles' own gish-galloping ignorance didn't even make sense to Charles! 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣
I would have been so petty with Amir once he claimed he wasn't doing the childish "why" to everything. "Why" would have been my only question until he answered with something reasonable.
At a certain point that's all they are doing anyway, except they're saying "just cuz". Anytime someone just makes a baseless assertion, I feel it is justified to respond with "nuh uh". Make them do their own work and back up what they say.
Amir is a fantastic example of how religion disables rational thought, I genuinely feel so sorry for him, he has absolutely no idea how fractally wrong he is
Amir is very intelligent. Unbelievers are blinded by Satan - they are unable to see the truth. Atheists cry out for "evidence", but as they hate God they will never acknowledge anything true about God. They are not puppets for Satan, they fully own their unbelief. ”In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" - 2 Corinthians 4:4 The Apostle Paul said the evidence is opaque - like seeing through a dim glass, but there is enough evidence. Unless God breaks through there is no hope for the unbeliever. God may not tarry: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion" - Hebrew 3:15 I think the world was created for the benefit of a relative few. It is not a mistake that there are so many unbelievers. In the end the suffering of the unbelievers is real, but to those in heaven it will be like watching a dying fly caught in a window screen - they will seem to be almost an infinitesimal compared to the realty of those with Jesus. God will not be cruel to the unbeliever. God wants a people who love him because he is kind and beautiful - someone who will endure through difficulties, many of the qualities you should look for in a spouse. If God provided "evidence" like writing a daily Bible verse in the sky, most people would probably "believe", but you would not do that kind of thing for your friends, if you could do it. The redeemed whether in heaven or when they return to the earth will be assigned tasks. The future of the redermed is not like a perpetual playground, it's much better than that.
@@TheSnoeedog I think that there is some truth to this, but I also don't think it's that simple. I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, and some of the smartest people I know are still back there. But when you are conditioned from before you can talk to believe that this book is true because it says so, everything in it is true, and if you don't believe that then everyone you know and love will abandon you, and you will burn in hell for eternity, then even the smartest people can be crushed back into the box. There's a reason it's called religious trauma - because it's traumatic. Don't do certain things, don't think certain things, don't question certain things, or else you're fucked. I'm certain there is some validity to the idea that less smart people (however problematic and semi-unquantifiable that is) tend towards religion for its simplicity - but indoctrination is real and can work on anyone, whether they are Albert Einstein or an average Joe. The only difference is the courage of a person in confronting their peers (or how reasonable their peers would be towards a person who believes something different.
Amir analogy from Dr. Ben - would have been more accurate if he'd said, Imagine you go to the hospital with heart pains and the Dr said "I am not sure if you had a heart attack or not. But it is POSSIBLE that it's a case of fairies dancing on your chest and that just feels more right to me. So that's your diagnosis."
And people like Amir and Charles are why Matt just cuts them off. Both gave several major clues that they are just spinning in circles and keeps repeating their original claim in different ways. The second it returned full-circle and he was talking about most probable again, Matt would've just explained why the caller is wrong and ended the call outright. Granted, I loved Forrest's rant at the end of Amir's call and Jimmy's part of Charles's call.
That’s why I love that they have so many hosts! As a new watcher, I didn’t understand why Matt cut people off so quickly. I wanted to hear what the caller had to say. But Matt already knows from like twenty years experience exactly what they’re going to say, so he cuts them off. Watching hosts who let the callers keep going helped me understand better, and now I’m not shocked when Matt hangs up on someone. I enjoy both hosting styles these days, good variety.
I took biology in college, have read books on evolution so a reasonably medium amount of knowledge on biology. That being said, i still have no trouble undestanding a spectrum within sex and gender. I love Forrest's example of we drew the boxes, and nature is not responsible for fitting in our boxes.
I came for the Ben and Forrest intellect. I didn't know how much i needed to laugh out loud at the Forrest freak out until it happened. I wish i could afford to join a Forrest trip, but definitely not one to Antarctica.
Like this is the exact reason that Matt is the way he is and having been watching him for many years, it's understandable. The irony of Amir saying "some people aren't intellectually equipped" when he himself is demonstrably not intellectually equipped but fully believes he is with his smug bullshit, is ludicrous. Forrest's rant was a thing of beauty. Also anyone else catch Amir's "well I've let you talk" as if it's his fucking show?!
These 2 guys together! Damn! We all get smarter listening to them. Dr. Ben is such an impressive person. He changed his whole life to become the person he was supposed to be. Then just for fun he became a doctor. He’s done more in his young life than 3 ordinary people. When he’s on the thumbnail I automatically click on it. And Forrest’s rant? Best thing on TH-cam this month. I watched it twice. People say Matt D. throws hissy fits. This rant made Matt look mild-mannered. 😂😂😂
The contingency argument is the most inane, boring and pointless argument I've heard. Can these presups just like, find a new one? Amir is a human word salad generator. Slippery, dishonest and basically proposing a God of the Gaps.
Truth. The contingent assertion. We have known, as global species, for some time that energy is not destroyed or created, thermal dynamics has a lot of evidence to support its laws. Asserting the original matter is a thinking agent that is eternal, is ass when we know the fundamentals don't show any evidence of that assertion ever. Perhaps material has always been there, we see lots of it. Saying that's true but also a magic god that's always been there too is such an egotistical move.
I can identify enough of Amir's accent to be able to place his likely home town, of which it is sometimes said, "You can always tell a Brummie... but you can't tell him much."
Birmingham,? I don't think so.... sounds closer to the London area? I'm Irish myself and I can't detect any Brummie inflections or accent in his voice at all?
Ahhhhh! The first caller would have had me ripping my hair out if I wasn't already bald. He's either monumentally confused or incredibly dishonest. I guess we're just not intellectually equipped to deal with him. I'm so appreciative of Forrest's hilarious rant at the end. 🤣 Dr Ben is fucking brilliant! I loved his sandwich comparison. I love seeing him on shows other than TACIS, as it's also great hearing his thoughts on non-trans issues too.
From other shows, it sounds like Ben himself values the chance to be on shows where being a trans person isn’t part of the job description. And I wouldn’t blame him. I don’t like imagining myself being on a show all the time where the only bit of me people care about is my homosmexuality.
Using Amir's logic there are only 2 options when playing the lottery: 1. You Win 2. You Lose Never mind that there is only ONE way to win while there are MILLIONS of ways to lose. When you think about it, it's just Pascal's Wager in new clothes.
great talk with Charles! He will never understand. I love you guys. Thank you for sticking up for people like me. It brings me to tears knowing that there are people like you standing up for my rights, fighting to try to make people understand me.
Forrest and Ben, you were terrific. Forrest the way you handled Amirs call was amazing, you (understandably) ranted, but were never cruel or unnecessarily personal - just 100% on the money.
Dr. Ben really did an amazing job on this episode. Love how he interrupted at the right time (imo) and didn't let incoherent ramblings continue. Forrest was energetic and hilarious as always. Would've gave anything to have a teacher like him in school. Thanks Jimmy for the show 🤘 feel better dude 🖤
Another superb presentation, fellas! Forrest, once again, knocks it out of the park with his exceptionally efficient wit, wisdom, and intellect. However, the new guy, Dr. Ben, did a phenomenal job proving his worthiness, as well. I'm not sure if anybody is taking tabs, but he certainly has my vote as a potential new member of the AXP/Line/TH/etc team. I really enjoyed listening to his arguments and he certainly brings a new style ( or, "rizz" as the younger generation would say) to the table. I'm looking forward to seeing you two gentlemen working together again in the future! Keep up the amazing work, my friends.
Who can see the wind, neither you nor I, but when the trees bow down their heads, the wind is passing by. Who can see the wind, neither I nor you, but when the leaves are trembling the wind is passing through. (I refuse to look it up and I’m having faith in my own memory. That’s been one of my favorites since childhood. Thanks, Forrest.)
Thank you Amir Today I learned that in English the expression _It is more likely_ really means _I have no evidence whatsoever but I want to believe that_ Learning English by examples.
It's telling how quickly Amir has to fall back on 'How do you know anything is real?'(17:12) Apologetics in 2023 seems to have descended into 'we can't know we're not in the Matrix, so my God could be real.'
Charles taught me that the globe is binary. There is only the north pole and the South pole. The equator is just a dysfunction of the expression of Antarctica
Charles was an example of why I think Jimmy is great to have producing, especially for Forrest. I love Forrest and his patience that makes him such a good science communicator, but especially for a show with viewers it helps to have someone to step in and say this isn't productive, we should move on. I mention Forrest since he's the notorious talker, but I loved having both Ben and Forrest! They're both so smart, well reasoned, and good at picking apart what people are saying.
I've said before that Forrest works best with someone more jaded, like Matt or Jimmy. They're not afraid to cut to the quick on people who are verbally running around in a circle. Sometimes people need the patient guiding hand of Forrest to see the error of their ways, but sometimes they need the kick in the rear that the others provide. My real fear is that Forrest, after years of doing this, will become too much like Matt or Jimmy. He's willing to listen and teach to a fault, and that's rare and a breath of fresh air in this kind of discussion.
@TheKrossRoads Forest has explained his reasons for continuing to hit brick walls long after he realised the caller can't be reached (although the world will be a darker place on the day he ever dares accept that even when he knows it). I think Matt's approach is certainly better for an Athiestic audience, where we already agree with him. But to a Thiestic audience, his experience comes off as arrogance and confirms their biases of who Athiests are (angry people who hate god). However, Forrest's patience lets them see firsthand how their line of thinking actually sounds and see the roadblocks for themselves.
@@The_Crimson_Witch Oh, I agree completely. If you already share beliefs with the program, hosts like Matt and Jimmy quickly cutting down arguments with "I've heard this a thousand times, this is how I debunk it, what else you got?" is educational for debunking those claims yourself. If you don't share beliefs, and you're coming in to argue in good faith, hosts like Forrest and Ben are good at pointing out flaws in your logic without appearing condescending or arrogant. Not trying to trash Matt and Jimmy, as they do genuinely seem to want to have those conversations too, but they can come off as combative sometimes in a way Forrest and Ben almost never are. That's why I like one of each category together, as good faith callers can have a discussion with someone who appears more warm and welcoming, while bad faith callers get the Jimmy Snow Special.
okay, about 48:00 mark was my favorite part; There are 3 options: A god, A natural explanation or something else. lol Did you also know there are 3 people who live in all of Canada: There is me, my friend Bill, and all the other people.
I get the feeling that Charles thinks binary means that only two elements go into making something, even if that something has more of one element than the other. His chocolate/vanilla analogy demonstrated his thought process.
that's correct, binary notation is the expression of any numerical value in zeroes and ones. IE 4 decimal = 100 binary ; 96 decimal = 1100000 binary . even tho there are more zeros than ones, it's still binary.
charles - ny, it is very satisfying when people with knowledge of biology, such as our hosts, school and expose opinionated ignorant busy bodies or should i say idiots!
I'm currently being investigated for pain in my sternum. My doctor figured from my symptoms that it's either reflux or gallstones. So she decided to test both, as well as my gut flora just in case. We ruled out the gut flora after the first round of tests, and the medicine I got to prevent reflux made no difference. So this coming Monday I'll have an ultrasound on my gallbladder done. My doctor didn't say "eh it's most likely anxiety, so lets just keep going with that as the actual cause". No, we are actively looking for evidence of what it actually is. If one thing has no supporting evidence, or has evidence against it, we don't consider that option anymore. God has less evidence going for it than me having gallstones.
When Forrest started taking his shirt off at 2:20:12, somewhere between 3-5 intellectual atheist women scooted closer to their screens. *_*waves_** 👋 Hello, ladies!
"Most likely" absent any justification is like pulling statistics out of my butt. If i can't justify my confidence, what good is it. Great show, gentlemen! More Dr. Ben, please! 🤘😃
Forrest is absolutely great. Not only knwledgeable, which a lot of people are, but also knows how to explaon things and teach. On top of that, knows how to run a show.
I also took physics with calculus even though my degree didnt require it! I had to take calculus anyway, so I figured I might as well use it before forgetting it all. Those physics classes ended up being some of my favorite in all of college. Super satisfying to work through those problems (even if the labwork and lab grading were crap). Sympathize with feeling super awkward about the Bushes
Bobby, that is a really cool thought. I think that is a great way of helping monotheists deconstruct because why WOULD there only be ONE god vs MANY gods. I don't see either way being possible, but that is a kind of new way to go for me. Thank you for bringing that up, very cool.
Bobby here, thank you! I use polytheism as a way of showing that 1.) How it would make more sense for that if one god exists then it follows that more can/should exist or more HAVE existed. 2.) And if that's the case then why wouldn't we know multiple gods exist because I'm sure at least some would make themselves known. But obviously we have never seen such a thing and that is why I don't believe in ANY gods existing. I also tie this in with how the bible shows that gods morality and way of thinking is purely subjective and how he himself acknowledges it, how gods states his fear of humans becoming "like them" (referring to himself and angels), and how in the Gospel of Judas Jesus claims that there are two gods and not one. I'm sure I could've said a lot more in the discussion but I didn't want to take up too much time since there were people waiting in line for a long time.
I've previously only watched TACIS on this channel since the start of this year. This is the first time watching Skeptalk and Forrest's rant at the end of the first caller was absolutely golden!!! Excellent introduction to the other stuff on The Line! 😂😂😂
25:25 Amir, Forrest literally just explained the answer to your question. If you have a variety of genes. If reproduction happens and you mix the genes, then, by necessity, you will have some alleles more beneficial than other alleles to the environmental pressures, and you have evolution. If you actually listened to the words Forrest said, this would be really clear. He broke it down as simple as you can, something even a 1st grader could probably grasp. And it is a third grade argument. And there is no debate on evolution in science.
Growing up with strawmen of evolution and pokemon evolution, the real thing is tough to grasp for many. It's not always rewarded or suited for the format, but patience is the way to go.
I can't believe, out of the hundred of times hosts call out fake calls, one guy actually said "Oh yeah, you got me" and Jimmy still told him to fuck off 😂😂😂
2:32:18 nailed it @JimmySnow ! Forest and Ben are kinda overthinking it, b/c statistics/repeatability don't really matter-it's indistinguishable from a random person making up numbers on the spot at a gas station. One scenario seems mysterious, the other seems mundane...but they are both the same. Well done.
I have to say that rant was epic, but well deserved. Amir spent 52 minute repeating the same thing over and over again and then turns around and speaks about nuance. Amir was excruciating to listen to but Forest rant at the end made it worthwhile.
Put a smile on my face reading 😊 I kinda admire bisexual people for loving people rather than genders. Not sure if "admire" is the right word, admiration should be reserved for accomplishments rather than people's nature but the capacity to romantically love anybody is a wonderful thought.
I don’t accept the idea that there was an original beginning as it is possible that we have an infinite regress. And the universe itself is either finite or infinite, and either possibility is extremely hard to fathom so an infinite regress is in that ballpark.
I have a picture in my photo library of a few coins and my keys that I pulled out of my pocket one day and dropped on my desk. I turned and looked and saw that one of the pennies was standing on its edge. There was nothing special known to me about the penny, I wasn’t trying to be gentle, I wasn’t even paying attention to them when I dropped them from my hand, and no more effort was made to stand that penny up than if I had done a coin toss. How’s that for a coin, seemingly, with only two sides on which to land? It _was_ my deceased father’s birthday though so maybe he was trying to communicate. /s
Forrest is correct at 1:22:00 in my case at least. Being a skeptic brought me away from religion and bigotry to realize not only are gay and trans people cool I came to realize Ive been suppressing my attraction to men as well as women for 50 years. I was a gay bashing bigot for way too long before all what Forrest said clicked into my noggin. To hear him say it a 1000 times better than I ever could is reassuring.
Just passed the math Superchat, and I loved it. I'm godawful at math. When we replaced numbers with letters and Greek symbols, I'm pretty sure I almost had an aneurysm. For *_YEARS_* I looked at math equations like an alien language, until one random day, Kyle Hill happened to simplify the symbols to "placeholders for other equations". I have absolutely no idea why, but that simple sentence completely changed how I understand math. Like, throughout my schooling, my teachers had *_NEVER_* been able to simplify the concept so succinctly like that. It always had to be some needlessly technical explanation or paragraph of other math terms that I just couldn't hold onto, and my brain would drift off to on random tangents, and I wouldn't actually learn anything. Don't get me wrong; I'm still bad at math, because I hate it, but at least the basics no longer look like alien scribbles, anymore, lol.
Forrest thank you for always taking the above and beyond to explain everything in Layman’s terms, such a legendary live stream, you guys are gravy. This wasn’t boring at all. Ps is God a top or a bottom?
10 out of 10 scientists agree that Forrest makes you smarter .
I think both Gents did good.
Can't speak for those scientists but one out of one farmboy definitely learned a thing or two from both these fellers.
Whilst I can't comment as my doctor says my IQ has tripled listening to Forrest, You'd assume that 100% would have poor replication value. I want to check your methodology sir,
Excuse me, what was your p value and confidence intervals? 🧐
I believe no scientist unless the wear a labcoat.
@@ChickenNugNugz2 I used the Hovind method, I pulled it out of my arse.
3:07 Amir (he/him) - Theist | Caller claims that he can demonstrate there's evidence for a creator god.
57:57 Troll caller.
1:01:16 Dakota (he/him) - Atheist | Caller explains why he thinks that religious people, by default, should believe in other supernatural beings, like ghosts.
1:09:16 Bobby (he/him) - Agnostic | Caller claims that polytheism is more likely than monotheism.
1:16:04 Pip (they/them) - Atheist | The problem of some atheists with religious thinking.
1:28:48 Charles (he/him) - Atheist | Caller claims that "sex is binary, there are no exceptions."
2:01:47 Forrest (and Dr Ben as well) schools some people with basic biology facts.
2:10:24 Superchats.
Thank you 😊
Thank you for your service Faia
As always, all hail Faia! 🙌🏼
Charles , you are getting owned….errr, own it
LGBTQIA’s is how we now label indeterminate Charles. Save the fuckn word salad at the end
You read Forrest and you click, no matter what you are doing.
Yes to that!
“Without a creator, there is no motive for anything to exist”. Genius! When you ASSERT there was a motive, then an intelligent agent is the most probably cause. Good job. Just entirely circular. Instead of studying philosophical apologetics, Amir really needs an entry-level course about logical fallacies.
We're just not intellectually-equipped to properly engage with his point. 😂
I’m with Amir on the fact that, without a conscious creator, the facts of existence and the universe don’t come packaged with a motive. Hail atheism!
Atheists always stumble in discussions of meaning. They usually resort to meaning being a social construct. Is a pitbull tearing off your leg inherently bad or is it determined by a social construct?
@@timothykeith1367 No stumble here. That’s a social construct. That would be “bad” because society almost unanimously agrees we wouldn’t like that. But if it turned out that I’m actually happy about a pit bull tearing my leg off, then it would be a good thing to happen. With over 8 billion people on this planet now and lots more past and future, you have to concede that there is at least one person for whom that would be a good thing to happen. And yet, if a pit bull tears off the leg of someone besides that one person in an odd case, that would be bad. Good and bad really are just relative.
It might also be the case that it would be a good thing for a pit bull to tear the leg off someone who DOESN’T want that to happen - such as, say, a dog successfully defending an innocent person from an assailant. This is good for the potential victim, but it’s bad for the assailant. All else being equal, from a purely ethical standpoint, I’m happy to call that a good thing… RELATIVE to the suffering caused vs. wellbeing promoted.
@@timothykeith1367let me guess, you've never actually seriously had this conversation with an atheist?
For Charles:
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Clearly there are 10 types of people in the world, the ones that understand binary, the ones who don't and the ones that did not expect this joke to be in base 3
@@eleSDSUYES !
@@eleSDSU go Aztecs!
I've NEVER laughed so much watching a TH-cam stream as when I was watching Forrest go on a rant against Amir. That was simply epic.
@@scottjohnson7248Well, Amir's response that Forrest should just "chill" says it all. 😅
The Day Valkai went Nuclear.
@@RogueInsect he won't ~.
Listening at work ..... had to take a laughter break ... just to deal with Forrest losing his sh1t in his own inimitable style. Epic indeed.
And Ben is all of us on screen hahah
Forrest losing his mind and ranting made my night, all while laughing.
He was channeling Matt for a few minutes there 😆
54:30 When Forrest is talking about how Amir is just blueballing him and he's just edged over and over.😂😂😂
He must be.... pent up.
Charles destroying his own argument when Forrest pulled up the red to blue color spectrum and then immediately trying to backtrack when he realized his mistake was the best thing I've seen in a while. What a dishonest person he is.
Best part is, people who would look at that gradient of colors and determined it has only 2 colors is by definition a bigot.
You could practically hear the cognitive dissonance squealing brakes in his brain.
He had been walked through everything, he had acknowledged their points over and over again but would never give up on his position in the least. I've listened to a lot of shows from The Line and the ACA and I don't recall anyone that was ever this completely stubborn. Most people would just refuse to acknowledge all their examples. But this guy saw their point, knew they were right, but just wouldn't give. Even people like Otangelo would at least acknowledge they weren't going to change their mind.
while I agree somewhat, the interesting thing here is that a computer screen is a binary system, and it showed the color spectrum that was used as an example against a binary. despite the fact it's a spectrum, it being in a computer screen shows how something that is binary can still yield a spectrum. so it doesn't technically defeat Charles argument, it kind of enforces it...
The hilarious thing is… there’s an actual sequel to this call where Charles does the exact same thing and fails again.
I just love Forrest. The dude has contagious enthusiasm and energy!
Saaaaaame!
I love that when Forrest repeated Charles' own inane "it's strictly binary" arguments back at him, Charles said "i'm confused by that!"
Charles' own gish-galloping ignorance didn't even make sense to Charles! 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣
I would have been so petty with Amir once he claimed he wasn't doing the childish "why" to everything. "Why" would have been my only question until he answered with something reasonable.
At a certain point that's all they are doing anyway, except they're saying "just cuz".
Anytime someone just makes a baseless assertion, I feel it is justified to respond with "nuh uh". Make them do their own work and back up what they say.
Planet Peterson is a youtuber that has conversations like this and it's either "why" "how" or "what's your evidence" lol
Amir is a fantastic example of how religion disables rational thought, I genuinely feel so sorry for him, he has absolutely no idea how fractally wrong he is
Agreed. Amir has called into these shows before. And other host have said what you said.
Amir is very intelligent. Unbelievers are blinded by Satan - they are unable to see the truth. Atheists cry out for "evidence", but as they hate God they will never acknowledge anything true about God. They are not puppets for Satan, they fully own their unbelief.
”In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" - 2 Corinthians 4:4
The Apostle Paul said the evidence is opaque - like seeing through a dim glass, but there is enough evidence. Unless God breaks through there is no hope for the unbeliever. God may not tarry:
"Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion" - Hebrew 3:15
I think the world was created for the benefit of a relative few. It is not a mistake that there are so many unbelievers. In the end the suffering of the unbelievers is real, but to those in heaven it will be like watching a dying fly caught in a window screen - they will seem to be almost an infinitesimal compared to the realty of those with Jesus. God will not be cruel to the unbeliever.
God wants a people who love him because he is kind and beautiful - someone who will endure through difficulties, many of the qualities you should look for in a spouse.
If God provided "evidence" like writing a daily Bible verse in the sky, most people would probably "believe", but you would not do that kind of thing for your friends, if you could do it. The redeemed whether in heaven or when they return to the earth will be assigned tasks. The future of the redermed is not like a perpetual playground, it's much better than that.
Religion only infects those already with an unreliable epistemology.. those people will usually believe all kinds crazy crap too
@@TheSnoeedog I think that there is some truth to this, but I also don't think it's that simple. I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, and some of the smartest people I know are still back there. But when you are conditioned from before you can talk to believe that this book is true because it says so, everything in it is true, and if you don't believe that then everyone you know and love will abandon you, and you will burn in hell for eternity, then even the smartest people can be crushed back into the box. There's a reason it's called religious trauma - because it's traumatic. Don't do certain things, don't think certain things, don't question certain things, or else you're fucked.
I'm certain there is some validity to the idea that less smart people (however problematic and semi-unquantifiable that is) tend towards religion for its simplicity - but indoctrination is real and can work on anyone, whether they are Albert Einstein or an average Joe. The only difference is the courage of a person in confronting their peers (or how reasonable their peers would be towards a person who believes something different.
Amir - "There are only 2 flavors of ice cream!!! 1. chocolate 2. all the others!!"
I would have loved Forrest as a science teacher, and I would definitely trust Dr Ben as my provider!
"I've been blue-balled for over an hour!!!!"
Is about the funniest f**king thing on the Interwebs this year after Amir's nonsense......
Amir analogy from Dr. Ben - would have been more accurate if he'd said, Imagine you go to the hospital with heart pains and the Dr said "I am not sure if you had a heart attack or not. But it is POSSIBLE that it's a case of fairies dancing on your chest and that just feels more right to me. So that's your diagnosis."
And people like Amir and Charles are why Matt just cuts them off. Both gave several major clues that they are just spinning in circles and keeps repeating their original claim in different ways. The second it returned full-circle and he was talking about most probable again, Matt would've just explained why the caller is wrong and ended the call outright.
Granted, I loved Forrest's rant at the end of Amir's call and Jimmy's part of Charles's call.
That’s why I love that they have so many hosts! As a new watcher, I didn’t understand why Matt cut people off so quickly. I wanted to hear what the caller had to say. But Matt already knows from like twenty years experience exactly what they’re going to say, so he cuts them off. Watching hosts who let the callers keep going helped me understand better, and now I’m not shocked when Matt hangs up on someone. I enjoy both hosting styles these days, good variety.
Forrest & Ben are a great hosts! 👍👍👍
I took biology in college, have read books on evolution so a reasonably medium amount of knowledge on biology. That being said, i still have no trouble undestanding a spectrum within sex and gender. I love Forrest's example of we drew the boxes, and nature is not responsible for fitting in our boxes.
I came for the Ben and Forrest intellect. I didn't know how much i needed to laugh out loud at the Forrest freak out until it happened. I wish i could afford to join a Forrest trip, but definitely not one to Antarctica.
Like this is the exact reason that Matt is the way he is and having been watching him for many years, it's understandable. The irony of Amir saying "some people aren't intellectually equipped" when he himself is demonstrably not intellectually equipped but fully believes he is with his smug bullshit, is ludicrous. Forrest's rant was a thing of beauty. Also anyone else catch Amir's "well I've let you talk" as if it's his fucking show?!
These 2 guys together! Damn! We all get smarter listening to them. Dr. Ben is such an impressive person. He changed his whole life to become the person he was supposed to be. Then just for fun he became a doctor. He’s done more in his young life than 3 ordinary people. When he’s on the thumbnail I automatically click on it. And Forrest’s rant? Best thing on TH-cam this month. I watched it twice. People say Matt D. throws hissy fits. This rant made Matt look mild-mannered. 😂😂😂
I fucking love how Forrest always jumps right into the calls and rambles forever about science and interesting topics. He's the Best!
In line of proving that a mind can exist without a brain, seems like a lot of people have proven that a brain can exist without a mind.
The contingency argument is the most inane, boring and pointless argument I've heard. Can these presups just like, find a new one? Amir is a human word salad generator.
Slippery, dishonest and basically proposing a God of the Gaps.
To borrow a page from Amir, I'd ask "Why can't there be an infinite regress?"
Truth. The contingent assertion. We have known, as global species, for some time that energy is not destroyed or created, thermal dynamics has a lot of evidence to support its laws. Asserting the original matter is a thinking agent that is eternal, is ass when we know the fundamentals don't show any evidence of that assertion ever. Perhaps material has always been there, we see lots of it. Saying that's true but also a magic god that's always been there too is such an egotistical move.
I can identify enough of Amir's accent to be able to place his likely home town, of which it is sometimes said, "You can always tell a Brummie... but you can't tell him much."
Birmingham,? I don't think so.... sounds closer to the London area? I'm Irish myself and I can't detect any Brummie inflections or accent in his voice at all?
I'm a Brummie and he doesn't sound like one to me.
@@jacketrussell It's faint, but it's there when he gets a little heated.
@@RichWoods23
Solihull possibly but not Brummie.
He may not be a brummie, but he sure is a dummie
Ahhhhh! The first caller would have had me ripping my hair out if I wasn't already bald. He's either monumentally confused or incredibly dishonest. I guess we're just not intellectually equipped to deal with him.
I'm so appreciative of Forrest's hilarious rant at the end. 🤣
Dr Ben is fucking brilliant! I loved his sandwich comparison. I love seeing him on shows other than TACIS, as it's also great hearing his thoughts on non-trans issues too.
From other shows, it sounds like Ben himself values the chance to be on shows where being a trans person isn’t part of the job description. And I wouldn’t blame him. I don’t like imagining myself being on a show all the time where the only bit of me people care about is my homosmexuality.
Welcome to islam 😂
Charles thought he was clever initially and then you can slowly hear in his voice how he had no idea what he was talking about lol 😅
Finally seeing Forrest snap under the strain of stupidity is incredibly hilarious.
54:49 Forrest asks Amir: How can you be wrong and a douchebag?
😂😂😂
That was 52 minutes from someone who doesn't know the words 'I don't know'.
That was the best.
Using Amir's logic there are only 2 options when playing the lottery:
1. You Win
2. You Lose
Never mind that there is only ONE way to win while there are MILLIONS of ways to lose.
When you think about it, it's just Pascal's Wager in new clothes.
Yeah, it's 50/50 😆
great talk with Charles! He will never understand. I love you guys. Thank you for sticking up for people like me. It brings me to tears knowing that there are people like you standing up for my rights, fighting to try to make people understand me.
Epic freakout from Forrest against Amir. That was truly amazing to watch.
Forrest and Ben, you were terrific. Forrest the way you handled Amirs call was amazing, you (understandably) ranted, but were never cruel or unnecessarily personal - just 100% on the money.
OMG. Amir actually said, "Most people are not intellectually equipped to have this conversation". The fucking irony.
Dr. Ben really did an amazing job on this episode. Love how he interrupted at the right time (imo) and didn't let incoherent ramblings continue.
Forrest was energetic and hilarious as always. Would've gave anything to have a teacher like him in school.
Thanks Jimmy for the show 🤘 feel better dude 🖤
Another superb presentation, fellas! Forrest, once again, knocks it out of the park with his exceptionally efficient wit, wisdom, and intellect. However, the new guy, Dr. Ben, did a phenomenal job proving his worthiness, as well. I'm not sure if anybody is taking tabs, but he certainly has my vote as a potential new member of the AXP/Line/TH/etc team. I really enjoyed listening to his arguments and he certainly brings a new style ( or, "rizz" as the younger generation would say) to the table. I'm looking forward to seeing you two gentlemen working together again in the future! Keep up the amazing work, my friends.
Who can see the wind, neither you nor I, but when the trees bow down their heads, the wind is passing by. Who can see the wind, neither I nor you, but when the leaves are trembling the wind is passing through. (I refuse to look it up and I’m having faith in my own memory. That’s been one of my favorites since childhood. Thanks, Forrest.)
Thank you Amir
Today I learned that in English
the expression _It is more likely_
really means _I have no evidence whatsoever but I want to believe that_
Learning English by examples.
It's telling how quickly Amir has to fall back on 'How do you know anything is real?'(17:12) Apologetics in 2023 seems to have descended into 'we can't know we're not in the Matrix, so my God could be real.'
Yeah, they have to divorce the conversation from reality in order to get their imagination to start counting as evidence.
Charles taught me that the globe is binary. There is only the north pole and the South pole. The equator is just a dysfunction of the expression of Antarctica
Charles was an example of why I think Jimmy is great to have producing, especially for Forrest. I love Forrest and his patience that makes him such a good science communicator, but especially for a show with viewers it helps to have someone to step in and say this isn't productive, we should move on. I mention Forrest since he's the notorious talker, but I loved having both Ben and Forrest! They're both so smart, well reasoned, and good at picking apart what people are saying.
I've said before that Forrest works best with someone more jaded, like Matt or Jimmy. They're not afraid to cut to the quick on people who are verbally running around in a circle. Sometimes people need the patient guiding hand of Forrest to see the error of their ways, but sometimes they need the kick in the rear that the others provide.
My real fear is that Forrest, after years of doing this, will become too much like Matt or Jimmy. He's willing to listen and teach to a fault, and that's rare and a breath of fresh air in this kind of discussion.
@TheKrossRoads Forest has explained his reasons for continuing to hit brick walls long after he realised the caller can't be reached (although the world will be a darker place on the day he ever dares accept that even when he knows it).
I think Matt's approach is certainly better for an Athiestic audience, where we already agree with him. But to a Thiestic audience, his experience comes off as arrogance and confirms their biases of who Athiests are (angry people who hate god). However, Forrest's patience lets them see firsthand how their line of thinking actually sounds and see the roadblocks for themselves.
@@The_Crimson_Witch
Oh, I agree completely. If you already share beliefs with the program, hosts like Matt and Jimmy quickly cutting down arguments with "I've heard this a thousand times, this is how I debunk it, what else you got?" is educational for debunking those claims yourself.
If you don't share beliefs, and you're coming in to argue in good faith, hosts like Forrest and Ben are good at pointing out flaws in your logic without appearing condescending or arrogant. Not trying to trash Matt and Jimmy, as they do genuinely seem to want to have those conversations too, but they can come off as combative sometimes in a way Forrest and Ben almost never are.
That's why I like one of each category together, as good faith callers can have a discussion with someone who appears more warm and welcoming, while bad faith callers get the Jimmy Snow Special.
okay, about 48:00 mark was my favorite part;
There are 3 options: A god, A natural explanation or something else. lol
Did you also know there are 3 people who live in all of Canada: There is me, my friend Bill, and all the other people.
The call with Amir was officially my favourite funny Forrest moment 🤣
Clip the Forrest rant!!!! I WAS HERE!
Amir is so dedicated to his presup script you can hear him clicking on his mouse to go through his goddamn PowerPoint.
I get the feeling that Charles thinks binary means that only two elements go into making something, even if that something has more of one element than the other. His chocolate/vanilla analogy demonstrated his thought process.
that's correct, binary notation is the expression of any numerical value in zeroes and ones. IE 4 decimal = 100 binary ; 96 decimal = 1100000 binary . even tho there are more zeros than ones, it's still binary.
Exactly.@@gb213
Forrest has the most pleasant form of losing one's shit... Thanks Amir for making that happen... 😂😂😂
Amir wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes with Matt.
"No, no, no, no, no! Arguments are not evidence!"
We really would've been better off for it.
No sir, no sir no sir!
Matt would blow his top 90 seconds in.
Best marketing pitch ever: “ Buy the thing, become a patron, go f*** yourself.” 😂😂😂😂 I’m dying laughing here 😂😂😂
My gawd, what an incredible duo! I’m excited for this one!
Watching that call with Amir felt like I was watching a greedy psychic vampire feed on pure unfulfilled frustration.
charles - ny, it is very satisfying when people with knowledge of biology, such as our hosts, school and expose opinionated ignorant busy bodies or should i say idiots!
In this household we simp for Forrest Valkai
Yes. He's awesome!
I heard the click when the wick was lit once Amir insulted the chat . Forest delivered the bomb with gusto 😂 .
I hope Charles call gets its own separate video that people can share.
id love to see that!
Ha ha, Forrest's rant at 52:55 is epic! 😂
I'm currently being investigated for pain in my sternum. My doctor figured from my symptoms that it's either reflux or gallstones. So she decided to test both, as well as my gut flora just in case.
We ruled out the gut flora after the first round of tests, and the medicine I got to prevent reflux made no difference. So this coming Monday I'll have an ultrasound on my gallbladder done.
My doctor didn't say "eh it's most likely anxiety, so lets just keep going with that as the actual cause". No, we are actively looking for evidence of what it actually is. If one thing has no supporting evidence, or has evidence against it, we don't consider that option anymore.
God has less evidence going for it than me having gallstones.
Another great show. Thx Jimmy , Forrest and Dr Ben.
I'm unconvinced Charles knows what 'binary' means
When Forrest started taking his shirt off at 2:20:12, somewhere between 3-5 intellectual atheist women scooted closer to their screens.
*_*waves_** 👋 Hello, ladies!
Omg hiii
Not just the women
Awesome show! Dr. Ben is always a treat. ❤❤❤
"Most likely" absent any justification is like pulling statistics out of my butt. If i can't justify my confidence, what good is it. Great show, gentlemen! More Dr. Ben, please! 🤘😃
Forrest is absolutely great. Not only knwledgeable, which a lot of people are, but also knows how to explaon things and teach. On top of that, knows how to run a show.
Forrest snapped!!!!!😂😂 and I loved every minute 😂
I also took physics with calculus even though my degree didnt require it! I had to take calculus anyway, so I figured I might as well use it before forgetting it all. Those physics classes ended up being some of my favorite in all of college. Super satisfying to work through those problems (even if the labwork and lab grading were crap).
Sympathize with feeling super awkward about the Bushes
Bobby, that is a really cool thought. I think that is a great way of helping monotheists deconstruct because why WOULD there only be ONE god vs MANY gods. I don't see either way being possible, but that is a kind of new way to go for me. Thank you for bringing that up, very cool.
Bobby here, thank you! I use polytheism as a way of showing that 1.) How it would make more sense for that if one god exists then it follows that more can/should exist or more HAVE existed. 2.) And if that's the case then why wouldn't we know multiple gods exist because I'm sure at least some would make themselves known. But obviously we have never seen such a thing and that is why I don't believe in ANY gods existing.
I also tie this in with how the bible shows that gods morality and way of thinking is purely subjective and how he himself acknowledges it, how gods states his fear of humans becoming "like them" (referring to himself and angels), and how in the Gospel of Judas Jesus claims that there are two gods and not one.
I'm sure I could've said a lot more in the discussion but I didn't want to take up too much time since there were people waiting in line for a long time.
Wow you two are amazing
I've previously only watched TACIS on this channel since the start of this year. This is the first time watching Skeptalk and Forrest's rant at the end of the first caller was absolutely golden!!! Excellent introduction to the other stuff on The Line! 😂😂😂
Amir REALLY enjoys the smell of his own farts. 😂
14:20 It's not an explanation; it's an unfounded assertion.
25:25 Amir, Forrest literally just explained the answer to your question.
If you have a variety of genes. If reproduction happens and you mix the genes, then, by necessity, you will have some alleles more beneficial than other alleles to the environmental pressures, and you have evolution.
If you actually listened to the words Forrest said, this would be really clear. He broke it down as simple as you can, something even a 1st grader could probably grasp.
And it is a third grade argument. And there is no debate on evolution in science.
Growing up with strawmen of evolution and pokemon evolution, the real thing is tough to grasp for many. It's not always rewarded or suited for the format, but patience is the way to go.
Forrest's rant at the 50ish minute mark was absolutely legendary.
The bubble gum analogy would be good for Amir.
Love love love this pairing. U go Ben! so proud of you 🤗
I can't believe, out of the hundred of times hosts call out fake calls, one guy actually said "Oh yeah, you got me" and Jimmy still told him to fuck off 😂😂😂
I am glad I found you over here, Forrest!
I really enjoyed this episode. Having two people in the sciences was great.
2:32:18 nailed it @JimmySnow ! Forest and Ben are kinda overthinking it, b/c statistics/repeatability don't really matter-it's indistinguishable from a random person making up numbers on the spot at a gas station. One scenario seems mysterious, the other seems mundane...but they are both the same. Well done.
Listening to Amir's nonsense was worth it for that Epic Forrest Rant. 😂
Holly shit, Forrests deconstruction of Amirs...evrything was strait up hilarious, I love this show.
Dr Ben, I would love to see that case study!
Big fan of forrests irritated rants 😂
At Dr. Ben, thank you for that fact! I thought it was super cool.
Forrest saying "it's probably not gonna be a long show"
Me, looking at the time stamp:😂
Amir obviously wants to believe in God so he grasps at the not falsifiable straws
Great summation by Forrest of Amir
I have to say that rant was epic, but well deserved. Amir spent 52 minute repeating the same thing over and over again and then turns around and speaks about nuance. Amir was excruciating to listen to but Forest rant at the end made it worthwhile.
I was so busy looking at the trees, I didn't even notice Forrest
My wife is pregnant now and I keep thinking I hope it's a healthy human instead of caring if it comes out a "boy" or "girl"
Put a smile on my face reading 😊
I kinda admire bisexual people for loving people rather than genders. Not sure if "admire" is the right word, admiration should be reserved for accomplishments rather than people's nature but the capacity to romantically love anybody is a wonderful thought.
@@bazingaburg8264To me, narrowing down this kind of relationship to one gender always felt so odd.
I don’t accept the idea that there was an original beginning as it is possible that we have an infinite regress. And the universe itself is either finite or infinite, and either possibility is extremely hard to fathom so an infinite regress is in that ballpark.
@@scottjohnson7248 Exactly!
I have a picture in my photo library of a few coins and my keys that I pulled out of my pocket one day and dropped on my desk. I turned and looked and saw that one of the pennies was standing on its edge. There was nothing special known to me about the penny, I wasn’t trying to be gentle, I wasn’t even paying attention to them when I dropped them from my hand, and no more effort was made to stand that penny up than if I had done a coin toss. How’s that for a coin, seemingly, with only two sides on which to land?
It _was_ my deceased father’s birthday though so maybe he was trying to communicate. /s
Forrest is correct at 1:22:00 in my case at least. Being a skeptic brought me away from religion and bigotry to realize not only are gay and trans people cool I came to realize Ive been suppressing my attraction to men as well as women for 50 years. I was a gay bashing bigot for way too long before all what Forrest said clicked into my noggin. To hear him say it a 1000 times better than I ever could is reassuring.
Good for you! That's awesome.
Fuck yeah, rock on bi brother!
Just passed the math Superchat, and I loved it.
I'm godawful at math. When we replaced numbers with letters and Greek symbols, I'm pretty sure I almost had an aneurysm.
For *_YEARS_* I looked at math equations like an alien language, until one random day, Kyle Hill happened to simplify the symbols to "placeholders for other equations".
I have absolutely no idea why, but that simple sentence completely changed how I understand math.
Like, throughout my schooling, my teachers had *_NEVER_* been able to simplify the concept so succinctly like that.
It always had to be some needlessly technical explanation or paragraph of other math terms that I just couldn't hold onto, and my brain would drift off to on random tangents, and I wouldn't actually learn anything.
Don't get me wrong; I'm still bad at math, because I hate it, but at least the basics no longer look like alien scribbles, anymore, lol.
Forrest recap on the conversation was absolute gold. 😅
I love Forrest, that was one of the best rants ever. Forrest go go go
@1:07, pretty cool you were able to talk to Forest and were able to get through your anxiety!
Forrest thank you for always taking the above and beyond to explain everything in Layman’s terms, such a legendary live stream, you guys are gravy. This wasn’t boring at all. Ps is God a top or a bottom?
Dude, that rant was the greatest thing I've heard on this channel. I'm dying here 🤣
You can't just assert things are possible, you have to SUPPORT your assertion.