Do Primates Kill Each Other? Richard Dawkins talks to ethologist Frans de Waal

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 87

  • @ArtiomVP
    @ArtiomVP 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +58

    Long live Dawkins

    • @mrIceblink
      @mrIceblink 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Hasn't got many years left, we are so lucky to be able to hear the great wisdom of this amazing man while he is still living and of good faculties

    • @Ranveer_Singh_sangha03
      @Ranveer_Singh_sangha03 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Sadly, you are so right ​@mrIceblink

    • @edankriss141
      @edankriss141 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      He is the last of the Romans, his legacy is etched in stone

    • @erinelizabethmsw5137
      @erinelizabethmsw5137 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      👑

  • @paulevans3827
    @paulevans3827 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This man actually saved my sanity. I hope this makes sense. I am 74 now and all my life. I’ve not been happy with this thing about God and worshipping et cetera et cetera and then he came along and solved the problem in 10 seconds.. i’ve only been to church a couple of times in my life, but I’ve always felt uneasy with either not going to church or should I? Shall I and this has gone on all my life and this man came along now I know what direction I need to follow, thank you, sir, thank you‼️🇬🇧

  • @antoinettejoubert
    @antoinettejoubert หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Very interesting! But then no discussion with Richard can ever be anything but interesting! Thank you for sharing this.

  • @albinottosson5318
    @albinottosson5318 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Disappointed it wasn't a conversation from a year ago, before De wasls passing. This video must be between 10 and 20 years old. It reninds me of the documentaries Dawkins used to make a decadr or so back. But still awesome seeing these two giants together.

    • @mosneyman
      @mosneyman หลายเดือนก่อน

      This was earlier in 2024, very recently on his final book tour.

    • @BeforeThisNovember
      @BeforeThisNovember 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@mosneymanyou’re absolutely tripping

  • @barbaragemin5117
    @barbaragemin5117 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    This was riveting. Such an eye- opener regarding empathy- consolation, helping others, appeasement and other forms of human behaviour. Watching and listening to conversations with Dawkins never fails to fascinate me. I learn something every time, even after having read most of his books.

  • @josephno1347
    @josephno1347 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I bet I could weave mitochondria into sermon,ha I love you Mr Dawkins you've touched my life!

    • @hamedchemli6270
      @hamedchemli6270 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

      He touched many lives. His books are treasures. I love him. ❤️

  • @refuse2Btools
    @refuse2Btools 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    at the end of 1st hour, empathy in animals comes up. immediately remembered UniChicago study involving free and trapped rats. amazing results. not only did they help each other, they were willing to give up treats (suffer) in the process

    • @BeforeThisNovember
      @BeforeThisNovember 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      That isn’t suffering. Sacrificing, maybe.

  • @GekoPish
    @GekoPish 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    We need to look at animals and ourselves outside the Food Chain logic of the past. Its not ALL Predator or Prey. There is more to many creatures than just blind instincts. We still have a LOT to learn yet.

  • @reddevil211287
    @reddevil211287 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I was just at the Oxford event. ❤

  • @Harsharoger
    @Harsharoger หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Discussions of social science and biology, as well as some distinctions made in the selection of human psychology, were interesting. I hope a greater extent of these two subjects can be elaborated on in such a context to make anthropomorphic human behavior more understandable.

  • @--Snowy--
    @--Snowy-- 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Greetings from Denmark. ❤

  • @DinkanFollower
    @DinkanFollower 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    56:00 De waals tries to explain Tinbegen to Dawkins. Tinbergen is Dawkins's advisor.

  • @AeiSedai1976
    @AeiSedai1976 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    We got to submit written questions before the event started. A young friend of mine and i had spent a road trip working out the question we wanted to know most.. Has the human species reached the pinicle of its evolution? It was actually the 1st question selected to ask. He signed both the Book of the Dead and a copy of Outgrowing God.

    • @refuse2Btools
      @refuse2Btools 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AeiSedai1976 I would think the only possible answer to your question would HAVE to be "let's all hope, with every fibre of our bodies, NOWHERE NEAR IT!!"

    • @AeiSedai1976
      @AeiSedai1976 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@refuse2Btools sadly no. His answer was he hoped not but evolution is dependent on species reproduction . Humans don't have nearly as many children...

    • @refuse2Btools
      @refuse2Btools 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AeiSedai1976 that makes sense. the moment the last human child is born naturally, without laboratory interference, evolution grinds to a halt. everything beyond that is "genetic manipulation", not really the same thing

  • @jackiedouglas4483
    @jackiedouglas4483 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Greetings from New Zealand 🇳🇿

  • @dongeonmaster8547
    @dongeonmaster8547 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'd love to see human comparison to chimps and bonobos on an equal footing. We are just as closely related to both species but chimps get most of the research.

  • @Ai-he1dp
    @Ai-he1dp 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The most selfish is the human, its had to make a leap beyond animal to achieve such selfish status.

  • @Entheos84
    @Entheos84 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Frans de Waal was a great ethologist. He will be remembered ❤

  • @violincredible
    @violincredible 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    So many odd feelings, watching 2 older ape overlords enjoying throwing bananas to some other apes who are imprisoned, if with all possible care and kindness, after I've thoroughly enjoyed hearing the 2 older apes discussing with much knowledge, care and wisdom the behaviours of apes and the reasons for such behaviours... Not sure how I feel now, but I did take much pleasure in hearing their thoughts on kindness and empathy, and the interesting fuzzy lines around anthropomorphism... Hmmm... Food for thought... and now I want a banana!

    • @JJPwfelli
      @JJPwfelli หลายเดือนก่อน

      We are apes, watching apes, watching apes.

    • @shaunholt8448
      @shaunholt8448 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I’m not sure what your point here is, I hear the sardonic vitriol, with a smattering of revery at the end, but I’ll be damned if I understand this post at all!

    • @violincredible
      @violincredible หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@shaunholt8448 Sardonic vitriol? Neither were intended. I was perhaps rather unseriously pondering: 'With which of these great apes do I more readily identify?' But I love your enthusiasm for commentary more satisfactory than mine in terms of making any cogent, let alone concise point, and of being more readily understandable sans any risk of damnation... I also find such commentary far superior to, and immensely more illuminating than my own, and lament its rarity not only amongst TH-cam comments, but more generally.
      Thank you for your insight and candour.

  • @gatesgateswarrenbuffett1355
    @gatesgateswarrenbuffett1355 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you professor Dawkins and your contribution to The world of Science thank you

  • @craigwilson6393
    @craigwilson6393 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Frans de waal is wonderful. I love his writing and his speaking as well. Could listen to him all day. RIP

  • @AspieMoonWoman
    @AspieMoonWoman หลายเดือนก่อน

    this was so informative wow

  • @williaminavanbottle9297
    @williaminavanbottle9297 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A female chimpanzee picked up a woman I know, (When a child.)
    and then, climbed to the top of a tree.
    The Chimps keeper, after some talking, got her to come down and hand her over.
    She instinctively put her arms round the chimps neck...
    and accepted it.

  • @johnhall2708
    @johnhall2708 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This took place around 21 years ago.

  • @valmid5069
    @valmid5069 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    *“Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals”*
    -Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

    • @rudolf-adamkovic
      @rudolf-adamkovic หลายเดือนก่อน

      Science investigates; religion interprets ... incorrectly. So, who cares? But yes, religion is control.

  • @johnterry6541
    @johnterry6541 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is so parallel to human behavior. I wonder if female’s selective and reciprocal as opposed to male monkey’s wide and non-selective sharing behavior is also generally true in humans. I wonder what everyone else thinks without being pc.

  • @Hi-FiBBQ
    @Hi-FiBBQ 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As I listened to the discussion on proximate and ultimate reasons, I found myself thinking about Kohlberg's six stages of moral development.
    I'm totally ignorant of the prospect of, or the reality of moral development among chimpanzees.
    Is moral development and advancement as put forth by Kohlberg real and identifiable with chimpanzees, particularly when living in social groups as we've seen in this episode?
    Thank you!

    • @MarloweDash
      @MarloweDash 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Since you are aware of Kohlberg I wonder if you are also aware of Carol Gilligan (a student of his) who responded to his conclusions and descriptions of 'levels' of moral development. Her idea that Kohlberg's view of (and inherent judgements of) moral development is influenced by his world view (as a white man). This should not be dismissed as 'woke' or other nonsense. Our experiences (including response to physical and sociopolitical power structures) do in fact affect how we interpret the world. So Kohlberg's thesis is inadequate and should not be seen as 'fact'. (Kohlberg used to sit at the edge of the room at the high school I attended - studying our 'alternative' educational setting).

  • @drayduke
    @drayduke 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    (who's responsible for the waiting music theme? I love it)

    • @Subtle2
      @Subtle2 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's just from TH-cam itself, lots of "premiering" videos will use it

    • @drayduke
      @drayduke 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Subtle2 appreciate it man. I'll have to look it up, but thanks anyway.

  • @MasterofOne-zl6ur
    @MasterofOne-zl6ur หลายเดือนก่อน

    The division is needed between man or other biological life to make the postulation of Souls or Spirit seem legit otherwise it is not meaning humans have a spirit or soul but others do not otherwise you have to explain why other biological life is not available for the eternals or after life based on particular behaviour characteristics it exhibits to other, or a division is needed to legitimize the Soul postulation and to also render evolution false because of this very factor all things considered. This means that all life either have souls or they don't not just a one sided affair like man have Souls but we evolved from a Monkey so the Soul must of been present before man or it just popped into existence in man or Monkey or it is false in its method or overall postulation because of this pure survival from within the subject or all biological life which we wrongly defined as Soul, Spirt or Consciousness which are actually all false in definition or have no coherent representation through behaviour or activity of life unless it is linked souly to the behaviour or character of the individual with regards to survival of the subject matter. The behaviour is the correct postulation or one acts to survive in spirit, or it is the only method into which we can gather the moral representation or definition but then this gets under scrutiny because we have to postulate animal behaviour which for the most part is basic survival of matter or subjects into which all biological life automatically adheres or pursues so that it may continue into the future like a Soul postulation which is Survival of subject extended into the unknown quantifier of death or a basic survival extension into the future with a classification of survival requires of Soul or Spirit to legitimize its fake or false postulation. Then you have to explain why one has soul not the other or postulate a division in by doing so creating a confusion of the correct definition or You have o explain away why a Monkey cant go to heaven based on behaviour or character even though it might need to consume other life forms to exist or survive creating a discrepancy in postulation. The actual function or the behaviour determines the definition we attach to it so empty as they are like Souls, Spirits or Consciousness are all empty or so we thought but it actually resides within the DNA or smaller structures of the biological entity with the whole acting out the instructions of smaller entities from within the structure such as this, the will to survive or continue is not empty but is abstract in the only sense that it can only be visibly seen by the actions of the subject so like all life we too act in accordance with survival such a s a monkey with a Soul who swings from branch to branch to collect fruit or Banana so it to may survive in environment but Soul or Spirit of Survival is required or we have no direct correlation to assume postulation or position. So here it is in plain if we evolved from other like a Monkey then that to will have a Soul and be available for the after life unless we require divisions and make the postulation human oriented because we didn't know any better like evolution of creatures or the beginning of life, or that Souls have been around before men existed or when did a Soul first appear or is Soul a description of something else like survival within subject matter and can we correlate behaviour of all life to Souls or Spirit of Survival as a collective and then create a moral position to allow for eternals or after life based on the complete picture of behaviour but by doing so ruling out say normal evolution and survival because that required a position of moral incoherence or behaviour to survive without meat consumption is now muted or on point because we have a lack of adherence to survival postulations of other which requires a stipulation clause into which we as consumers can kill animal life for meat consumption and so moral logistics is not at play? So the division between man and animal is needed to bolster or allow for Soul postulations or spirits while now we give a consciousness as a replacement but still is not true definition or form into which behaviour is a correlation to definition. This is the particular strength with this position or postulation and can now be further explored as we try and to define the behaviour and survival of matter from within the smaller structures or entities of biological life such as the brains.
    There is much more but this is a valuable point and approach to the issue and can hold valuable insights into the nature or truth of reality from within this method or approach.
    Basically the Soul postulation is a Survival postulation like Soul or Consciousness. You cant do without it or it makes survival impossible but required in death to further survive into the future or past death but does not reference other biological life forms because behaviour is a mute point or position to have. Thus with the division needed a confusion arises and it is what you see today in most if not all problems from this particular method. The division also is required for large meat consumptions or dominion of other or expressively the real reason for sin with allowances for man to consume life forms or other with no moral position required or because we consume meat or the eternal sin of man which is his dominion over other which is large meat factories or meat collections the behaviour is not classified or rendered for availability of the after life based on behaviour of man and into which other animals are prohibited or are unavailable on an automatic scale of division otherwise you have to create a space for them in either position of afterlife ruling out pure survival which is the actual bases of confusion. The time scale is the problem or first creature postulation of Soul or Spirit or it has always existed before man evolved since the afterlife is eternal and other biological life was around before man. This is why the division is needed or false definition or postulation of Survival from within the given subject. This is the real reason for the postulation of evolution being false but because it links back to survival it also has issues for say leftists because of abortion or confusion of biological life or life extension to other as the hypothetical extension exposes reality of form being always true in definition and character and it poses more confusion and problems because of the human need for the quelling or destruction of human life so both sides have huge issues with both postulations one being the fakeness or unseen character of survival within subject and the moral position since there is none of abortion or quelling or destruction of self so to speak so evolution again must be used to show why this is wrong or unwanted with moral argumentation being relevant in a sense to expose the legitimacy or nature of why you do or don't do something usually for survival purposes as first protocol within a given species. Another key point is this survival can only be followed or is only seen in the behaviour one exhibits to self or other as with survival extension then you have to understand that we have confused or muddled this true postulation to compensate for Souls and Spirits which are all false or postulations of survival which was unknown but followed in history by man and animal or one in the same. Consciousness itself is of the same character or it is empty or unseen where as survival is not and can be visible with behaviour of character and can be measured or linked to survival because behaviour determines it or makes it possible. All of Spirit, Soul, Consciousness, God The after life are all human wants or extensions of basic evolutionary survival within subject of matter all are empty without correlations to material and have no link to definition except when referenced to basic biological survival with behaviour being the front or way into which that need can be shown or it can become itself reality where as Soul, Spirit, Consciousness, God and the afterlife remain unseen. The abstraction element is always survival of matter from within which all life highlights by action or behaviour then you have to decide what or why you want to consume meat like a dinosoul or carnivore and remain with the Eternal sin of man or allowances to bolster this position by negative moral argumentation or allowances based on the ability to survive in environment.
    Follow this method it will help you find your way if lost or if you are unsure about reality. This is basic level 1 of 100 for interpretation also or beginners method for amateurs.LOL
    Thank you. The Souls of Monkey are all ready waiting for you in heaven or first arrivals.LOL But dinosouls were before them and so on and so forth until you reach an area where only survival existed in essence within the smaller structures of reality like say a Proton or Neutrino. Or you have to postulate once again what had souls or spirits and if the afterlife is eternal then what or who is available based upon the need to survive in environment or behaviour itself which really puts a nice finishing on the postulation for which I represent and reality itself. So the interpretation of the after life is not fully known or available to know to humans thus creating the need for the postulation of a being from the other side or death realm making his presence known on earth or the creation of an entity to represent survival possibles through God or the creator as it created survival itself within the realm of the universe.
    Magic

  • @albinottosson5318
    @albinottosson5318 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I love this even before I have seen it.

  • @louisehaley5105
    @louisehaley5105 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    101:49 - it’s an obvious connection to make, given that we’re also members of the animal kingdom.
    From a nonhuman perspective this fact is a double edged sword - on the one hand it helps us humans to empathize with our nonhuman relatives, but on the other, it justifies our exploitation of them when it comes to vivisection.
    “They’re like us physically and psychologically enough so we can conduct distressing experiments on them in the lab, (both physical & emotional), but not like us enough to consider whether they suffer like we do”.
    Interesting that even when most scientists reject the idea of us being made in “God’s own image”, they’re still conditioned by Judaeo-Christian thinking into behaving as if they do.

  • @cherylween4973
    @cherylween4973 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love Richard Dawkins 💕

  • @cherylween4973
    @cherylween4973 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So eating just fruits and the chimps are still much stronger than humans? 😅

  • @Bohemian-Rhapsody
    @Bohemian-Rhapsody หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    👏👏👏

  • @antifa86i35
    @antifa86i35 หลายเดือนก่อน

    this was faschinanting ! Chipmps are peaople !

  • @LV81991
    @LV81991 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Our cousins yo. Wish we could chill with em.

  • @MarloweDash
    @MarloweDash 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yes I would like to see humans discuss the ethics and morality of studying imprisoned primates. Why is it more appropriate or acceptable to put these primates in an enclosed space to watch them than it is to raise a group of humans to do the same thing. The common idea humans have of ourselves as superior (thank you christianity for the absurd idea that god made us in his image, thus elevating us in a self referential and congratulatory way above all other life on the planet), that we are not troubled by this and believe in the conclusions these 'scientists' come to... I am more than cynical.

    • @MatthewBehrensRole30
      @MatthewBehrensRole30 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Let me say a few things. These chimps have a house with a front yard. You have a house and a front yard. They are given food to eat. You are provided options at a grocery store. These chimps are being watched and analyzed. You live in a world where you are monitored and analyzed on many different levels. When you really begin to think about it, your world isn’t far removed from theirs.

  • @yannicklepaleo
    @yannicklepaleo 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting but so sad to see the chimps in a prison...

  • @louisehaley5105
    @louisehaley5105 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    58:15 - Professor Dawkins should have called his first book “Food & Sex”, as these are the two prime driving forces driving animal behavior (including our own). It would also have been more attractive to potential readers. “The Selfish Ge” is a rather off putting title.

  • @MarloweDash
    @MarloweDash 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    10:22 they could just be talking about humans. Same story. I am a Dawkins fan (but more so a Hitchens devotee) but this conversation is just deeply ridiculous. 2 old white men, fully privileged, able to acquire and allocate resources, of enormous status talking utter nonsense and acting like there is something profound going on that we should spend time listening to. Maybe I just woke on on the wrong side of the bed but this seems a waste of time. Over and out.

    • @tommy2972
      @tommy2972 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Would it help if they were black?

    • @maistvanjr1
      @maistvanjr1 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@tommy2972Equity points should suffice to cross it over the threshold into at least "moderately interesting" territory!

  • @proudatheist2042
    @proudatheist2042 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Dr. Frans De Waal died earlier this year. I wonder why Dr. Dawkins sat on this conversation for so long...

    • @Peacefrogg
      @Peacefrogg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Another brave scientist who dared to think for himself. In a time when it was considered unscientific to speak of animals having emotions he just went there. Someone had to. Also he worked at the zoo in my home town, one of the earliest zoos that considered the wellbeing of their animals a priority.

    • @Peacefrogg
      @Peacefrogg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@cosmicentropy6358 no, long time ago, arnhem, netherlands.

  • @Cheskymandel
    @Cheskymandel 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Anyone else here went or is going to one of Professor Dawkins events this year?

    • @AeiSedai1976
      @AeiSedai1976 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I saw him in Washington. Speaking directly to him was a hell of an experience

    • @Cheskymandel
      @Cheskymandel 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AeiSedai1976 How long could you talk to him, could you ask him questions?

  • @AeiSedai1976
    @AeiSedai1976 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I was listening and just saw the video... those are terrible hemorrhoids

  • @louisehaley5105
    @louisehaley5105 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    When I see these chimps smashing and ripping apart such tough fruits like coconuts, melons & pumpkins, I shudder to think what they could do to any unfortunate soul should they accidentally fall into their enclosure.
    No wonder it resembles the velociraptor’s one in Jurassic Park !

  • @johnf1121
    @johnf1121 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    where is this ? and why? I feel bad for the chimps, I can learn this much with the deer in my backyard, can't watch anymore

  • @infiniteworfare5089
    @infiniteworfare5089 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    death is a normal part of life. our reactions arent. avoiding death has forced alot of animals and plants to suffer in domesticated conditions and we continue abusing nature's organisms. lack of natural selection can lead to a life of suffering.

  • @99guspuppet8
    @99guspuppet8 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ GOD created the universe and reality and insane people ….. shish kebab ….. There is no free wheel …… let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain

  • @PleaseReadTheBible
    @PleaseReadTheBible 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life (present), and shall not come into judgment (future), but has passed from death into life (past).” There are 66 books total. Please read John, Romans, 1 John, and Revelation. Use an accurate translation like the KJV, NKJV, or NASB. He loves us immensely. All we have to do to be saved is believe in Him.

    • @juliedunkley1055
      @juliedunkley1055 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      When human beings decide to grow up and abandon religion this world might have a chance of peace. Religion causes hell on earth. Your books were written by people thousands of years ago who had no exposure to modern science.

    • @Peacefrogg
      @Peacefrogg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      All we have to do is believe? Yes i have heard of those, people who can choose what they believe. To me, it still feels like 2+2=5.
      And i wonder what ‘saved’ means.

    • @josephno1347
      @josephno1347 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      what if we don't want everlasting life? I'd like to not exist

    • @Peacefrogg
      @Peacefrogg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@josephno1347 yes please. Not right now though. But in the end, oblivion sounds like the best option, right?

    • @juliedunkley1055
      @juliedunkley1055 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@PleaseReadTheBible Spend more time reading science books

  • @jeffknott1975
    @jeffknott1975 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Of course they kill each other, we have murder, manslaughter, euthanasia and the death penalty! But I'll watch this to find out about other species though 🫠😉

    • @mrIceblink
      @mrIceblink 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      the non-human primates don't bother with these fancy categories they just get on with it (the killing)