I discovered this same property when I cleaned some carbon steel knives in a solution of very strong tea. Tannic acid is present in both tea and in oak trees! My knives, whilst clean and rust free were now completely black, although fortunately it did come off with some fresh water and a rag!
There are many kinds of oak galls, as there are many varieties of gall wasps and they have sometimes two sexual cycles (each one creates a different gall), only one type is called "apple" gall and there are also currant galls, marble galls, knopper galls, artichoke galls, silk button galls... The recommended galls for ink making were Aleppo galls, traditionally brought from Turkey (due to them having a higher level of tannin), but in the UK we can use marble galls. Iron gall ink is the most durable and resistant ink, but it's a nightmare for conservators, due to it's acid content and many historical documents have suffered the corrosion.
A note on safety for those watching: Iron sulphate is used as a moss killer and can irritate skin and lungs if inhaled so best not to accidentally sprinkle it over a beautiful moss-covered tree, and wear gloves/mask.
There are lots of oak trees on the farm where I grew up. In over 60 years, I only remember one tree ever having galls. Now that I know what they are I'll pay better attention. There might be more. Thanks for the video.
Anything very heavy in tannins mixed with a ferrous iron will make a true ink. I've done it with cooked down oak leaves, black teas, green fruits, grape leaves. Anything that leaves a dry taste like red wine is tannin heavy. I got my iron from vitamins lol
If I remember correctly, you can reduce the tannin base, in this case the fall fluid for a thicker style ink. It smells like old pen ink. Very fun project
Alright so. A natural source of iron sulfate for all you hardcores. Take fools gold (iron pyrite) and leech the acidic properties from it with water(probably a very long process) then boil that with iron filings. I assume you would then have to evaporate the water so you can use it.
Amazing to think pre-modern peoples were able to figure all this stuff out before they even had any understanding of atomic structures, molecules and chemical reactions. We tend to think of people in the past as backwards and ignorant but that didn't stop them from being curious and insightful to devise useful compounds. They may have called it alchemy but they laid the groundwork for our modern understanding of chemistry.
The tiny oak marble wasps feed on plant matter only. Not parasitic at all. Wood wasps on the other hand are large with long ovipositors to lay eggs in beetle larvae feel in the wood.
@@dustsky is irongall ink truly light-fast? I've heard people say that it fades when exposed to extended daylight (as Indian ink wouldn't). Just because it fades a bit doesn't mean it necessarily fades to nothing though. I use "registrar's ink" in my fountain pen and never had any troubles with it. It's the only permanent ink that doesn't sink through the paper. At one point I mislaid the pen for nearly a year, and contrary to the predictions from so-called ink experts it never blocked, the nib hasn't corroded and this pen that was full to the brim with iron gall ink wrote perfectly as soon as I found it!
@@ZadenZane Modern formulations of iron gall inks have evolved to address some of the potential issues associated with historical inks. The use of hydrochloric acid, which is a gas in solution and tends to evaporate, can make modern iron gall inks less likely to damage paper and gentler on fountain pen internals when compared to inks that historically used sulfuric acid, as you noticed with your own pens. This improvement in formulation helps prevent some of the issues related to corrosion and paper deterioration that were more common with older iron gall inks.
@@dustsky thanks for explaining that, I looked at some websites a while ago and I think they were implying the same thing, that it's probably sulphuric acid causing all those problems with old manuscripts. Surely iron gall ink was used in Victorian times as well as much earlier? When I see writing in old books it's usually in a greyish coloured ink which looks to me like a weak iron gall solution, similar to modern day "registrar's ink". I have never ever seen any sign that the ink was attacking the paper.
Hello! Thanks a lot. It's a wonderful video. I explore this subject now and the information was very useful. But some gaps still remains. Could you suppose where did people get the sulphate of iron in medieval time? As far as I understand it's not widespread in nature.
This ink is black, but blue ink seems more toxic. I was "inked" in the chest by a classmate who stabbed me with a fountain pen 40 years ago, leaving a blue tattooed dot. Over the years the dot reddened and grew, becoming vascular. It is now quite inflamed and irritated, sometimes bleeding, and I wonder if a substance in the ink has caused skin cancer.
what a shame this episode is introduced by a couple of blokes who appear to not take the subject seriously. Horrible attitude and affected presentation.
This was fascinating to watch, thank you for sharing!!! Any tips on how to find oak galls ready for picking? Are they only found in autumn? Totally adding this to our homeschool list of things to try :)
I discovered this same property when I cleaned some carbon steel knives in a solution of very strong tea. Tannic acid is present in both tea and in oak trees! My knives, whilst clean and rust free were now completely black, although fortunately it did come off with some fresh water and a rag!
There are many kinds of oak galls, as there are many varieties of gall wasps and they have sometimes two sexual cycles (each one creates a different gall), only one type is called "apple" gall and there are also currant galls, marble galls, knopper galls, artichoke galls, silk button galls... The recommended galls for ink making were Aleppo galls, traditionally brought from Turkey (due to them having a higher level of tannin), but in the UK we can use marble galls. Iron gall ink is the most durable and resistant ink, but it's a nightmare for conservators, due to it's acid content and many historical documents have suffered the corrosion.
I thank you for the knowledge you've shared
They also needed to add a binding agent or something to thicken the ink.
Allepo is in the Levant, why'd the Turkish call it 'Allepo'?
Thanks for the info
@@whatabouttheearth I can only tell you about oak galls and papermaking, sorry. Ask a person knowledgeable in human affairs.
Awesome!
A note on safety for those watching: Iron sulphate is used as a moss killer and can irritate skin and lungs if inhaled so best not to accidentally sprinkle it over a beautiful moss-covered tree, and wear gloves/mask.
There are lots of oak trees on the farm where I grew up. In over 60 years, I only remember one tree ever having galls. Now that I know what they are I'll pay better attention. There might be more. Thanks for the video.
I'd love to see what other items can be used to make ink or dyes. :) Great video
Anything very heavy in tannins mixed with a ferrous iron will make a true ink. I've done it with cooked down oak leaves, black teas, green fruits, grape leaves. Anything that leaves a dry taste like red wine is tannin heavy. I got my iron from vitamins lol
If I remember correctly, you can reduce the tannin base, in this case the fall fluid for a thicker style ink. It smells like old pen ink. Very fun project
That was as lovely as it was chaotic! Thanks! 😂😂❤
Alright so. A natural source of iron sulfate for all you hardcores. Take fools gold (iron pyrite) and leech the acidic properties from it with water(probably a very long process) then boil that with iron filings. I assume you would then have to evaporate the water so you can use it.
Amazing to think pre-modern peoples were able to figure all this stuff out before they even had any understanding of atomic structures, molecules and chemical reactions. We tend to think of people in the past as backwards and ignorant but that didn't stop them from being curious and insightful to devise useful compounds. They may have called it alchemy but they laid the groundwork for our modern understanding of chemistry.
The tiny oak marble wasps feed on plant matter only. Not parasitic at all.
Wood wasps on the other hand are large with long ovipositors to lay eggs in beetle larvae feel in the wood.
Very nice video. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
I heard that oak gall ink is "blue-black". So why are ancient manuscripts written in such a black-looking ink? Does the blue-black darken with time?
This ink darkens over time, indeed, as it undergoes oxidation, which is why it has excellent archival qualities. Furthermore, it's waterproof.
@@dustsky is irongall ink truly light-fast? I've heard people say that it fades when exposed to extended daylight (as Indian ink wouldn't). Just because it fades a bit doesn't mean it necessarily fades to nothing though.
I use "registrar's ink" in my fountain pen and never had any troubles with it. It's the only permanent ink that doesn't sink through the paper. At one point I mislaid the pen for nearly a year, and contrary to the predictions from so-called ink experts it never blocked, the nib hasn't corroded and this pen that was full to the brim with iron gall ink wrote perfectly as soon as I found it!
@@ZadenZane Modern formulations of iron gall inks have evolved to address some of the potential issues associated with historical inks. The use of hydrochloric acid, which is a gas in solution and tends to evaporate, can make modern iron gall inks less likely to damage paper and gentler on fountain pen internals when compared to inks that historically used sulfuric acid, as you noticed with your own pens. This improvement in formulation helps prevent some of the issues related to corrosion and paper deterioration that were more common with older iron gall inks.
@@dustsky thanks for explaining that, I looked at some websites a while ago and I think they were implying the same thing, that it's probably sulphuric acid causing all those problems with old manuscripts. Surely iron gall ink was used in Victorian times as well as much earlier? When I see writing in old books it's usually in a greyish coloured ink which looks to me like a weak iron gall solution, similar to modern day "registrar's ink". I have never ever seen any sign that the ink was attacking the paper.
Hello! Thanks a lot. It's a wonderful video. I explore this subject now and the information was very useful. But some gaps still remains. Could you suppose where did people get the sulphate of iron in medieval time? As far as I understand it's not widespread in nature.
I wonder if you could use iron pyrite (fools gold). It’s an iron sulfide but I also know nothing
@@apeaceofpie7035 Thanks a lot. I needed this information for a novel. At last I decided to avoid emphasizing these details. ☺
This ink is black, but blue ink seems more toxic. I was "inked" in the chest by a classmate who stabbed me with a fountain pen 40 years ago, leaving a blue tattooed dot. Over the years the dot reddened and grew, becoming vascular. It is now quite inflamed and irritated, sometimes bleeding, and I wonder if a substance in the ink has caused skin cancer.
That was cool! Now to find out if we have oak gall wasps in Australia.
I am just using thick dark bark from big old gumtrees . Loads of tannin in that
what a shame this episode is introduced by a couple of blokes who appear to not take the subject seriously. Horrible attitude and affected presentation.
This was fascinating to watch, thank you for sharing!!! Any tips on how to find oak galls ready for picking? Are they only found in autumn?
Totally adding this to our homeschool list of things to try :)
Super late but I've only ever seen them in Autumn. Probably because the wasps only lay their eggs at a certain time and they take a while to grow
Rambles on a bit before getting to the point
A bit more to it than that, I believe. 🌈
Correct, check out clau's comment, it contains more in depth and accurate information than shared in the video.