This Conservative Thinks America’s Institutions ‘Earned’ Their Distrust
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2023
- You can’t understand the modern Republican Party without understanding the complete collapse of trust in mainstream institutions that has taken place among its voters over the last half-century.
In 1964, 73 percent (www.pewresearch.org/politics/...) of Republicans said they trusted the federal government to do the right thing always or most of the time. Today, that number is down to 9 percent (www.pewresearch.org/politics/...) . And it’s not just government. Pew found that only 35 percent (www.pewresearch.org/short-rea...) of Republicans trust national news and 61 percent (www.pewresearch.org/short-rea...) think public schools are having a negative effect on the country. Many of the issues animating the modern right - from fights over school curriculums and learning loss to media bias and Covid vaccines - are connected to this deep distrust.
Mary Katharine Ham is a journalist and conservative commentator who has appeared on CNN, Fox News and ABC News. In Katharine Ham’s view, America’s institutions have “earned” her party’s rampant distrust. Across her writings, she has leveled scathing critiques of numerous mainstream institutions, from the media to the C.D.C. and universities, arguing that these institutions have consistently failed to serve ordinary Americans. So this is a conversation that explores Katharine Ham’s critique in order to understand the distrust at the heart of the Republican Party.
Mentioned:
“Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the Coalition of the Distrustful (www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/op...) ” by Michelle Goldberg
End of Discussion (www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...) by Mary Katharine Ham and Guy Benson
Book Recommendations:
Wise Blood (us.macmillan.com/books/978037...) by Flannery O’Connor
Rules of Civility (www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...) by Amor Towles
The Right (www.hachettebookgroup.com/tit...) by Matthew Continetti
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast (www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-k...) , and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-... (www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-...) .
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Rogé Karma. The show’s production team also includes Emefa Agawu and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
![[TH] VCT Masters Shanghai Playoffs DAY 3 // FNC vs FUT | EDG vs PRX](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pw2T5v0ogDI/mqdefault.jpg)
This lady has no idea, try working in badly ventilated rooms with 30 students six hours a day when you are in a high risk age group, I was retired by then , but I would have left if I'd have been forced to work even when the kids were wearing masks, and of course it was conservatives refusing to let their kids wear masks. .......
0:35: 💡 Mary Catherine Ham discusses the growing distrust in American institutions, particularly among conservatives, and the lack of introspection in the media.
6:40: 🗞 The speaker discusses the importance of engaging with diverse perspectives in media and the challenges of platforming controversial ideas.
11:54: 📰 The conversation discusses the engagement with controversial views and the distrust of institutions, particularly the media.
17:40: 😕 The speaker expresses skepticism and distrust towards government institutions, including the media and education, and discusses the historical and recent reasons for this distrust.
23:42: 🏫 The debate over school closures during the pandemic has led to a loss of trust and political consequences, with many on the left believing there would be no consequences.
29:56: 😔 The speaker expresses concern about the children who are already getting left behind and argues for parent involvement in advocating for them.
36:04: 🗣 The conversation discusses the challenges of engaging in online discussions without resorting to name-calling and questioning motives, and the toxic nature of such interactions.
42:17: 📊 DeSantis has a distinguishing moment with his handling of the Covid pandemic, but it may be challenging to prosecute the case in the primary.
47:23: 📚 Mary Catherine Ham recommends the book 'Wise Blood' by Flannery O'Connor as her favorite book of all time.
52:50: 📚 Mary Catherine Ham shares her favorite books, including 'The Rules of Civility' by Amor Towles and 'The Right' by Matthew Continetti.
Recap by Tammy AI
❤
Thank you for giving such brief yet in-depth sypnosis Tammy AI! Tammy AI is a wonderful tool.
This interview was terrible. The host accepted every claim of the guest uncritically. At times I couldn’t tell which person was the “conservative”. Every time the guest made a statement they presented it as self evident, and the interviewer just accepted it. The ONE time she pushed back on any of the dung being slung it was with a low, childish growl of “I disagree”, like it was a joke. This conversation was vapid and pointless. Just another “liberal” interviewing a “never trump” republican to diagnose the right, the precise thing that made the guest skeptical of institutions! This conversation proves the old adage that “opinion is the lowest form of knowledge.” Platform better conversations Ezra.
Thank you Jane!!! I love you!!!
I think that they have earned their distrust, but for conservatives, it seems to be an on/off thing, not an understanding of limitations. I have limited trust of institutions and experts, because I have seen a history of self-serving speech and actions. For me, that means that I need to understand when I'm hearing something that is self-serving, and I need to have a way to test what they are saying. It seems that for conservatives, this means that the whole thing is utterly broken and untrustworthy. The problem is that organizations are made of a lot of people in a lot of teams, and at any one time, the vast majority of those people and teams are trying hard to make things better.
This is my point of view, it does not make your point of view wrong.
@csours I particularly enjoyed your disclaimer as a final brief paragraph..
I often say that modern conservatism is the inability to conceptualize any number between zero and infinity.
If there’s anyone crossing the border illegally, then we have open borders.
If one vaccinated person got COVID, then vaccines don’t work.
If one person committed voter fraud, then the whole election was stolen.
And here. If there’s any conflict of interest in news reporting at all, then “the lame stream media” is nothing but corruption.
Be better, righties.
They did. No political independence in the civil service since Blair's introduction of SPADs.
The upspeak that NY Times types have is really hard to listen too.
I'm 60+, born and raised in the south, moved away from the US in the early 80's because I've always been left of Ghandi and I have a question..... Would you advocate for the recipe held by the aspirational lower class that prevailed in my grandparents' day: "Never discuss politics or religion in polite company"?
Only the beneficiaries of white privilege can abide by this suggestion without doing harm to themselves.
It's not a solution.
national politics? most likely not. religion? definitely not. i also have something that might be akin to brian5001's view - might be called a "nihilistic" view - in this way: relationships with other people outside of a work setting are quite overrated. people seem to me in general to be too concerned with fitting in - with being part of a herd... and with believing in things that coddle their egos
I would say that this aphorism still largely exists today, but with a slight modification. That is, you shouldn’t discuss religion or politics in polite company _who_ _disagrees_ (or potentially disagrees) with your point of view.
At about 22:55 “the new enthusiasm/passion for the distrust of these institutions from school boards on up comes from extended closures during COVID,” rings biased to me as I observed strong enthusiasm and passion for distrust of school boards and higher education long before COVID. Yes, that perspective got more intense with COVID, though it was vigorous and widespread years before COVID.
Yeah how about going back to a guy named Reagan who said _"Government isn't the solution. Government is the problem."_ He and Thatcher set the entire western world on a program of decimating Government, undermining every institution and then blaming those institutions for failures.
I seriously want to scream at some of these neoliberal clowns.
Good lord! Why would anyone trust an institution? Hated school and hated the Air Force. I got thru both tho. Tried college and realized as a white, working class male I wasn't wanted. In my working life I've figured out that the bigger the company the more evil. Trumpy win because enough people are angry at the democratic party threw them away. Hilary, Obama, and Biden all corporate Democrats. When both parties are in with the corporations who is there to vote for. I hate trumpy, but I understand why his cult is a thing.
Trump seems to get away with what he tries to get away with because most people avoid acting in bad faith and follow rules.
Thanks for the sane and smart conversation.
It's been just 4 months, this didn't age well. Tim Scott gone early, 2nd to go after Mike Pence. Desantis polling last of the 3 remaining candidates.
GOP's distrust in institutions and DeSantis embracing anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, opening up during Covid, resulted in an excess death rate among Republican voters that was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters.
Oh well, survival of the fittest.
What an intellectually honest conversation:
"the point of public education is that you care about the kids even when their own parents don't"
“we tested that notion, somebody called me yoga mom”
A conservative thinks? I'm surprised.
she aint wrong
to answer the title - yes, that is correct
I understand that rural areas and the rust belt have been ignored on many levels (as have young people) - but the GOP who represent these regions do little for them economically other than offer them a voice and a belief system. Whereas Democrats do help them but get no credit because they have urban / diverse values, often talk above their heads and are detached from them.
I don’t think Gen Z are going to be open and sympathetic, especially with so little GOP policy and so many crackpots - they have too many pressing issues like Abortion, Inequality, Racism, Climate Change and Gun Control and they will have the numbers on their side. Why should they listen to people who have ruled against everything they believe?
Exactly. This woman is just peddling nonsense. Gen Z has zero reason to listen to GOP voters. They don't need them to win elections in upcoming years. The Religious Right is dead, and nobody trusts the money of oil and gas lobbyists.
“Often talk above their heads”…. I don’t even like Trump but when I read comments like yours I find myself cheering for a Trump win in 2024 just a little bit more.
That has gotta be one of the most patronizing comments I've read in a while
Be honest, did you fart into a champagne glass then bring it up to your nose to savor the smell after posting that comment?
OP, it seems you are assuming that the country is shifting Democratic so there's no need to listen to the middle of the country. Hope that is a reasonable summary of your thinking. This might have been true if Democrats automatically gained Latino and Asian votes, but there is a move away from the Democratic party. So as the redneck racists diminish in the silence you impose on them, you may find a lot of minorities that ought to be grateful to all the wonderful empowerment programs Democrats devised so that they could be their saviours and they may not be as grateful as you might imagine or as loyal as you unconsciously demand. They might vote in governors with names such as Ron Desantis and speak about conservative memes that lack a pluralist tone. I vote left but your comment exemplifies the problem with the Democratic party in a neat little nutshell.
Save yourself some time, the summary is "they closed schools for covid and I said they shouldn't and they called me names"
well it's deeper than that, its the unions and the power they weld
"There is a distrust in institutions, because institutions deserve it."
"We have to distrust institutions, because they have a lot if power."
What is it?
It's both.
@@jonnjones8263 How can you judge, if an institution is trustworthy or not, when you already assume that you have to distrust it?
@@jonnjones8263and then some
The thing about “intelligent” (read educated, rationalist/materialist) people is they can rationalize away their biases and blind spots and thus end up being delusional. A new term for this is midwit. In the modern world the notion of wisdom is quaint and outdated.
@@iankclark Distrust isn't wise, indeed. Especially not distrust in institutions. So you should be very very sure about your ability to judge them.
It’s pretty silly to say (19:50) that universities are not a place of raucous debate and free speech. This is a person who views university culture entirely through the lens of right wing media. She should spend some time among academics. No other group loves to argue quite so much.
just because there are debates doesn't mean all views are given fair treatment. If certain views are usually dismissed from the get-go, even though academics are technically allowed to talk about it, it still results in many academics being discouraged from speaking their mind.
@@dogsdomain8458 What if those views have been examined and discussed but most of the experts in the field reject them based on those discussions?
For example, what if a flat-Earther showed up at a meteorology conference and interrupted every talk to discuss the evidence that the Earth is round? Would engaging with that person make for a more or less productive conference?
That person would probably accuse us of dismissing his very legitimate concerns. And it is a discussion worth having somewhere. But the meteorologists can get more done by agreeing that the Earth is round and discussing meteorology within that framework. Don't you think?
easy for the guest to now say schools should have opened earlier - hindsight is 20/20. not that she's coherent on this.
When over a million American have died from COVID, it's a little rich to be talking about having your feelings hurt by school boards and teachers' unions.
🤐🤐🤐
Economic investigator Frank G Melbourne Australia is still watching this very informative content cheers Frank ❤
Ugh...Marty Katherine Ham lost a lot of credibility with this imo. Gave Republicans a pass for being the ones eroding the institutions and glossed over Trump with usual "you just don't like him" BS. Never thought of her as an apologist before but now I do.
Ezra, are the lights on in there? Have you activated brain cell number two?
It says this conservative, is the speaker a conservative? Jane i think is her name? Or Mary is conservative? Nevermind now I understand lol
what motivates the Democrats' Lenin-Bolshevik dictatorship by the educated “doublespeak” (add pronoun use) derives from two concepts in George Orwell's famous novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (Orwell, 1949/2021). Examples of doublespeak include the use of euphemisms, jargon, vagueness, intentional omission, misdirection, and idioms in order to obscure the truth and engage in Machiavellian behavior. in this country, government enforcement is being diverted from pedophilia crimes, sex slavery, and children being forced into slave labor in an effort to indict Trump....the LGBT community's problem is that they are based in the 70s French protests where Sartre, Derrida, and Foucault advocated for normalizing and legalizing pedophilia...while individually they are not as such the base values are and why they have been trying to change the Diagnostic Statistical Manual to make pedophilia a legitimate sexual orientation
I want whatever drugs you're on.
You are deeply lost friend. Sounds stressful, get a therapist.
It's true that there are some very extreme elements attempting to position themselves under the umbrella of the LGBTQ. There is a large breakaway group, the LGB alliance now.
The maps (minor attracted persons) circling was the last straw for some. Maps haven't been accepted by any group but I can see how their stylized flag and intent to slide another letter in there when nobody is paying attention might be a concern.
@@trailertrish2587 might be? Look I'm not a trumpy or even republican but the lbgt needs to take a deep breath and decide what they want. They have all the protection and now marriage. What exactly is left to complain about?
@Theboyisnotright, I don't think they're complaining about lack of rights. The older generation of LGBT are distancing themselves from the latest generation of LGBT because of behavior they consider extreme. They believe it's damaging their brand.
The instutions never.spoken.about.the.civil.short cumming.of.ideas.that.is unlikely.to.be worthy..the.system.failour.is.tabue.for.it