LMFAOOOOO this is the first reaction I've seen where the MOMENT Marlene said "it does" the vibes flipped to "nah forget this entire hospital, burn it alllllllll down RIGHT NOW JOEL LET'S GOOOOOO" and I'm 100% here for this energy lmao
In the official podcast for this episode Neil Druckman, the game creator, said that during the play testing phase of the first game they saw a few trends. Parents agreed with Joel's actions almost 100% of the time while childless players were much more 50/50 on if they thought Joel did the right thing. And everyone has been arguing the nuance of this very human situation since 2013
FUN FACT: Ellie's Mom, Anna played by Ashley Johnson was the voice/action of/for Ellie in the video game, Abi. Ashley also played the Seaver's youngest daughter Chrissy on "Growing Pains ( 1990 - 1992 ) and Patterson on Blindspot ( 2015 - 2020 ).
It's good that you knew that the surgery meant killing her lol so many other reactors kept thinking so ellie won't be immune anymore and I'm just screaming at my screen yeah because she won't be alive lmao 😂 I think others thought that the cordyceps was on the outside of the brain but they even said INSIDE the brain 💀
I love how you picked up on the voice of Ashley Johnson so fast! Yes that's pyke from Vox Machina, also the voice actress for Ellie back in 2013 when the game came out!
This ending is so sad. Ellie was never allowed to decide either way whether she would want to go through with it or not. Her purpose was taken away from her and all the guilt she feels over surviving while everyone she cares about dies is going to eat her alive. Her "okay" at the end definitely indicates to me that she knows Joel is lying about something and if she ever finds out exactly how big his lie really was, it's going to severely damage their relationship and that is so incredibly sad because they love and need each other so much. It's just an impossible situation though. If I were in Joel's shoes I would have done exactly the same thing, minus the lying I suppose.
The giraffe was incredibly realistic.....because it was real! tada! They were fortunate enough to film at a giraffe feeding exhibit at the local canada zoo while filming for the show.
Okay fun facts for ya... incase you havent read likely the 100 other people who explained this but i often see people forget the last fact. The woman we see give birth to ellie is ashkey johnson. She is the voice of ellie in the game.... okay that out of the way. Ashley is also the voice of our favorite Gnome... Pike from Vox Machina. Ashley created pike for their home d&d game that later became a live game then a show. Laura Bailey is another voice actor that is very close friends with ashley. Laura is the voice of an important character in the second game but also she played one of the nurses at the end that joel didnt shoot. (This is not the important character she voiced in season 2 btw) Laura is also Vex in Vox Machina.
Holy shit you actually nailed it maybe a minute after i made this comment. Good job girl! You got some good ears. I can place pike since i know its pike but if i didnt know i doubt id make that connection. Bravo!
Joel is so dissociated from everything at the end because he only has one goal, to get Ellie out of that hospital. The way he says “unhook her” gives me chills because it’s so monotone and emotionless, he’s seeing red.
"EXECUTE!!! ... I'm sorry." lmfaoooo I'm dying at your bloodthirst, but also, same. This has been such a fun series!! I'm so glad you decided to do it, so thank you for that
The question about giving Ellie the choice is what does Marlene do if Ellie says no? Say "OK, off you go then"? And out the door goes the last hope for defeating the fungus. The mistake you make with the Cap comparison is that Cap says we're not going to let a few die to save the many, we're going to save them all. In this case not letting the one die dooms many to die horribly, there is no saving everyone in this situation.
Order of events: 2:05 decide to play some video games 2:15 finished updating and checking for new mods 2:16 decided to take a fat dab before i start playing 2:20 set up my rig for a quick clean and look to see if there are any good youtube videos to watch while i clean 2:21 see your thumbnail and say fuck it watching this before i game Youre channel has become one of those channels my adhd gets hyped for and will drop everything to make time for.
The end of this episode was almost identical to the game. The only difference for this segment is how they get to the hospital (they encounter infected, and then make their way through some flooding, and Ellie nearly drowns, and that's where they are captured, while Joel is performing CPR). Otherwise it's almost exactly the same, including the massacre, which you could imagine makes for some intense gameplay.
This is definitely why this story is top tier, for games and for TV, is this complicated ending. But in the end, the mistake both sides made was not giving Ellie her own voice in this. One theory I heard was that it might not have turned out this way if they had told Ellie, she might have been the only one to talk Joel down. Moreover, I mean just give the two the chance to say goodbye and Joel to make peace with it, which again, probably would have been easier if Ellie had been the one to talk him down. But both sides did the very human thing and kept Ellie in the dark for their own goals, regardless of how selfish or selfless they were. And we'll never really know for sure if the cure would have even worked, or if Ellie even would have been able to talk Joel into going along with it. The original writers wanted to explore both sides of love, specifically a parent's, how beautiful but also how dark it could be, and they nailed it.
"We're fucking the shit up, we're bringing the shit down" this is why I love your reaction Abi. Hahaha. If we were there, we will probably help Joel out.
Dude, I partly raised my niece all the way through infancy to now (she’s 13 soon) and if I was in Joel’s position I would’ve 100% done the same. The whole world could burn before my kid was killed and treated like a lab rat, fuck that. Especially when she said they “THINK” they have a cure. It’s not like people were removing covid patients lungs to get a vaccine(as an example), and Ellie literally got immunised through the umbilical chord which is basically a blood transfusion. There are other ways to get a vaccine they just didn’t want to figure it out (despite the apocalypse happening 20yrs ago at that point iirc)
There is such a thing as non fatal brain surgery. Seems like they could extract SOME of the fungus for study. But the doctor didn't care because it wasn't HIS daughter. If it were I'll bet he would have tried some non invasive study first. Unethical medicine is often faster and more effective more quickly... still evil.
Regardless of whether Joel was wrong, Marlene was wronger. She was the one who was going to kill a child for a *maybe* on the justification that "she'd want it" but refused to actually tell said child the truth, much less be patient and let the situation wait a few years until Ellie was actually mature enough to make a decision.
Btw the giraffe was real hehe, they shot that scene at a zoo. Giraffes name is Nabo. Also, it’s confirmed that Season 2 will be the first half of the second game, and Season 3 will be the rest.
Hey, Abi! Ashley Johnson, who voiced Ellie in the game played Ellie's pregnant mom, Anna. The giraffes are straight out of the game. I'm so glad they kept that scene in! Save for the birth scene, Joel's attempted suicide story and a final action-packed push through a clicker- and bloater-infested tunnel en route to the hospital, the episode plays out almost exactly like the game! There are no other options! Animals can't be used as test subjects because they're unaffected! Neurosurgeons are a rarity in an apocalyptic world! Humanity's existence is poised on a knife's edge. The stakes are too big to risk Ellie saying 'no'. Joel sacrificed the lives of everyone in the hospital and everyone who dies of cordyceps from that day forward! Ellie had already decided before the hospital that she would see her mission through no matter what the cost and told Joel so. She said, "There's no halfway with this." Who wouldn't sacrifice themselves to save the world? It is her sole purpose for being. To deny fulfillment of this goal is to deny her destiny. Frankly, even if she didn't want to, she should be forced to kicking and screaming. It's devil's arithmetic but how would you feel if a loved one could have been spared but for the refusal of the one who carried the cure? What supreme arrogance! The big surprise at the end of the game is when you are forced to kill the entire medical team to advance the plot. The game doesn't move along until you slaughter them all. At that point, you realize that your POV character, Joel, is the villain who dooms the world for purely selfish reasons. Heroes sacrifice. Joel does not. Ellie knows he is lying to her but she accepts the lie out of love for her surrogate father because the truth of his monstrous, self-serving decision is too horrifying to acknowledge. The hero was the villain all along.
@@BrownPhoenix Even so, Joel is still a s#!theel. The reason Kathleen was added to the show was so that the parallels between her and Joel would be plainly apparent at the climax. She neglects the safety of her community to satisfy a selfish obsession mercilessly. Joel is no different. He deserves his fate. It's too bad he dragged Ellie down with him.
Great season, finale. I think it cool to have Ashley Johnson the voice of Ellie in the games, plays her mother in the show. I noticed that in the same manner that Ellie killed Riley, it is almost similar to Marlene killing Ellie mom. I like how both Joel and Ellie talk about how Joel reason for the scar on his head was because he tried to take his own life after the loss of Sarah. As Ellie tells him about killing Riley. I understand Joel reason for killing the Fireflies was because he grew attached to Ellie and because he didn't want to lose another daughter. This is why Marlene wants to keep Joel away from Ellie. But man I feel he shouldn't had lied to her. You can tell Ellie knows he's lying to her with the story of the Fireflies not finding a cure. Ellie is questioning her purpose. She doesn't know how to confront Joel with why she doesn't believe his story. But anyway, season 2 is gonna be interesting. But great reaction Abi and I hope you have a wonderful day. Stay safe, stay positive, stay blessed, take care and stay amazing.
Great conversations and great action! Love seeing Anna and how strong she was even if it was for a sec 😭 Ellie’s strength must be genetic! Also enjoy the rest of your week!
15:00 bro it was so funny how vicious and vile I was when they told me they were gonna kill my daughter figure I was throwing bricks, Molotovs, my favorite sound was either breaking a 2x4 over their heads or them screaming when I got a flamethrower
I'm listening to you talk at the end and she made it very clear. She would be willing to through the development of her character and all that she went. Why the truth wasn't told to her? Because he knew if it meant giving her life she was ready. She became a serious daughter to him. He didn't believe it was possible and then it happened which means it can happen again. And she would become a story. That he would tell someone and how she save the world and how he helped guide her through the Apocalypse.
I do not have a child and I am still 100 percent behind joel on this. The fireflies went about this the stupidest possible way. You separated them knocked him out took them away from the person they cared about the most then drugged her and put her in surgery without telling her and told joel hey thanks for bringing her she's gonna die but here's her knife have a nice life. Like excuse me? what? also say she was a full consenting adult you are still killing the so called only immune person you have ever seen without doing tests, on a whim that it might work...
Marlene didn't even wanna ask what Ellie wanted to do. She didn't want there to be any chance of her answer being no. Joel shouldn't have lied though. He didn't want any chance of being told by Ellie that he did the wrong thing.
Well someone beat me to it. This was exactly what I was gonna comment. Both Marlene and Joel were wrong for the same reason all for the sake of having plausible denialablity.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 But that's the thing, both of them COULD have let her be awake to make a choice but they didn't because they were both terrified to take a chance to hear what her choice would be and its easier to make the self serving choice yourself instead of leaving it up to chance.
@@DingoEnderZOE2 Even if Ellie was given a choice, it would've been made for her by Joel or Marlene. If Ellie says yes, then Joel would've gone on his murderous rampage like in the show to save her and if she says no, then Marlene would've still went with the surgery that would kill Ellie. The choice if given to Ellie would've been an illusion, so it wouldn't have mattered either way.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 No if Elle was given a choice and both still tried to force their choice they would have no means to hide behind plausible denialablity and they wouldn't have been able to hide from the consequences of that. If Elle made her choice and Joel ignored it then Elle would on the spot ABSOLUTELY hate Joel and Joel desperately wanted to avoid that for his benefit. If Elle made her choice Marlene would then be entirely justified because she has confirmation that Elle would have been on her side. Elle not being given the choice was just beneficial to both Joel and Elle. So yeah it absolutely would have mattered.
i just realized a better lie joel could have told was that the fireflies lied and tried to kill him without telling him anything so he defended himself. then he interrogated someone and found out they were going to kill HER and that they didn't know what they were doing and couldn't make a cure. so after killing a bunch to get her out of there, they were all hostile so he had to run. he could have even mentioned that marlene was killed by the fireflies for objecting to them killing Ellie (which in the game it was kinda implied that that's probably what would have happened if she had objected)
Oh, and the giraffe was real. The background was CGI. They got it on loan from the Calgary zoo. Oh, and the failed attempt would go a long way to explaining Joel's hearing loss on his right side.
So figure I'll put my two cents in about the ending and the whole "Marlene" situation. Her line at the end when she questions Joel about "what would Ellie want" is meant to be correct / something he can't honestly argue against- this is hinted at early in the episode when the latter tells Joel that everything she's gone through has to mean something / be worth all the trauma / strife she's endured. They're technically both in the wrong for acting without Ellie's consent/consideration, but there's a reason why Joel doesn't wait for her to wake up after that argument was made by Marlene in the parking garage- It's because deep down he knows Ellie WOULD choose to lay down her life in this situation. And he's NOT willing to lose another daughter regardless of what she might want. While I completely 100% empathize with his plight, the implicature in the game (and arguably the show as well) is that Joel chose to not lose his surrogate daughter by denying her agency (not considering her wishes & lying to her about it). It's a choice I can absolutely get behind as a character, but it was ultimately not done selflessly. All of that being said, great video as always!
Marlene was definitely the more selfless of the two. She was selfish is not having the conversation with Ellie, Joel and the doctor about what was going to happen - with Joel tied up or sedated - which would have been the ethical, honest thing. She claims it was to spare Ellie pain and fear of dying. She can't tell Joel that then turn around and make the argument about Ellie's choice. Lol. I think Marlene was sparing herself the pain of having to tell Ellie and experience her reaction. Even if Ellie had said no or that she needed more time to think, Marlene would have gone through with the surgery. Maybe things would have been diffused if Ellie could have told Joel it was her choice and said goodbye. But the minute she was on her way to surgery, the outcome would have been the same. Just even more of a betrayal on Joel's end. He couldn't let her go.
I normally don't pick sides, but when I do, I prefer the side that makes the most sense. Marlene was making a hard choice for the good of humanity and Joel selfishly stood in the way of that, dooming the human race to keep living in that hellish world. Marlene's only mistake was not killing Joel right then and there.
The Fireflies were going to kill the only known immune person because someone thinks they understand her immunity and they think that can lead to a cure. They aren't running tests to see white blood cells, antibodies, etc.? They aren't going to check if the chemical that may be in her brain could be found elsewhere? There is virtually no chance they are successful and would have killed Ellie for nothing.
As a non-parent, I personally am very much against Joel's decision and side with the Fireflies, but I very much enjoyed your reaction and I'm sure I'd probably do a 180 on my perspective if I was a parent.
Yeah, it's clear with Marlene that she's been keeping Ellie away for Ellie's safety, and it's interesting to contrast that with Joel to keep Ellie close for the same reason. I originally deeply disagreed with Joel when I played the game. But in hindsight no one was "right", and they both removed the choice from Ellie. Everyone could've done better and it's a shame lies had to be lost because of those mistakes. I'll have to finally play Part II now, before season 2
@Erimentos101 In my mind, a 14 year old kid shouldn't even be asked to make such a decision. Just as I agree with Joel taking on the burden of the truth so Ellie doesn't have to carry that load.
Same reaction I had! Like no way you are going to take my child and basically experiment on her! And for what? The rest of the shitty world? No way, there has to be a better way.
Wonderful finale for this series, I played the first game when I was around 14 and I was one of the people who thought Joel did the human thing most would do. In a world like TLOU I doubt anyone would be out there actually pretending to be a hero. It's more so wishful thinking. We're not even sure the fireflies would be willing to share the cure with FEDRA and other big entities. Although I understand both sides, they are not saints either and we actually know little about them as an organization and all its leaders. I have played the game numerous times throughout the years but now that I'm an adult and I'm in college I have come to experience a lot of things, even cruel ones, in my life. Now watching the show even though I am not a parent I realize I might do the same thing Joel did for other people in my life, like my brothers. For any of them especially my little brother. I'm sure my two big brothers would do the same for us. They played the game before I did and they told me they understood Joel because of us. I am their little sister but because of things in our life and the absence of our dad they were parental figures for me. Now my mom has been absent in my little brother's life so I took the role of that of a mother for him. He's 13 and my brothers and I have tried our best for him. He's a very strong, emotional and kind kid. I'd never put the rest of the world first, him and my brothers are my priorities. Even in a world like ours people who didn't know us took a lot of things from us when we were children. They put themselves before us, so why do we have to do the opposite? I believe in the kindness and beauty of the world but we as people don't owe anything to anyone. Us 4 brought ourselves up with no one else helping us. If I had to choose between saving the world or saving my brothers I wouldn't even hesitate.
Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.
Marlene didn't ask Ellie she was scared she would say no joe didn't ask Ellie he was scared she would say yes wonder what she would of said give the choses
Theres 2 type of people in the world. People who think Joel was right by saving Ellie and taking the cure away from the world, and people who are right
I'm always shocked at how many people think that saving humanity is less important that just 1 life. Joel is selfishly doing this for him, not for ellie, and because of him, millions more people just like her will suffer a fate that could've been avoided.
the world took sarah away from him, so now he’s taking their cure. what he did is was understandable. i mean i would hope a dad would fight like crazy for their daughter…
@Azula🩸 yeah of course it's understandable from his perspective. But from everyone else on earth's perspective, he's basically the worst person ever lol. That's why it's a good story, that it's morally gray. When I played the game I fully understood why Joel did what he did, but I also thought that I wasn't really playing a protagonist anymore. Which is fine, he's still one of my favorite characters
The formation and distribution of the cure is not a sure thing. Even scientists say the doctor was skipping over lots of options to the most invasive option. For Joel, Ellie IS the whole world. They blindsided Joel. Marlene is in charge. She botched this. If they were going to unethically kill a minor without consent for the greater good, they also should have killed Joel in his sleep or... kept him in the dark until the surgery was done. Half measures from Marlene. Someone says because she was in pain about Ellie and knew Joel was the only one who could relate. She was hoping he would forgive her for making the tough call... I can see that but... It is such a big ask to expect objective humanity-saving philosophy from Joel in the same moment he finds out you are going to cut out his daughters brain! They could have given him a chance to talk to Ellie about it and say goodbye. But that would also be a chance for him to talk her out of it. So complicated.
Assuming the cure was a 50/50 chance of working. Those odds aren't good enough for me to sacrifice someone I love. 70/30 isn't good enough. 80/20 I'd still have my reservations. 90/10 is where the chance has to be for me to even consider staying out of it. And even then, the person being the sacrifice must be involved 100%. Here's the best case scenario in my head. The cure has a 90% of working. Ellie is told this, and make the choice on her own with no one to sway the options. Ellie agrees that 90% is good enough and decides to go through with it Only if those conditions are met would I stay out of it and accept the loss. Otherwise I'm burning everything down.
So I can finally ask, Living with yourself after fear or vengance consumes you, after taking certain actions, forgiveness. Some of the people Joel killed probably had partners, sons, daughters, after all, no matter what, they were looking for a cure for humanity. . How do you think Joel feels. Will he be able to live with himself? EDIT: also a question to ask but. if Joel was right in his actions, was kathleen right? If Sam and Henry were strangers and were in the way of Joel at the hospital, at a minimum Sam would have ended up without a brother.
Kathleen’s brother made the choice to forgive Henry. Ellie was never given a choice in her situation. I get where you’re trying to go but these are not the same situations for me. Also side note: What’s the guarantee this surgery would work? It seems more experimental versus having the formula to make the cure
@@abi_corinne yeah theyre things to consider for joel not for us lol but it shows how far a warped mind can go. You know henry would have been in the pile of bodies had he been on the way in the hospital. (He didnt shoot the nurses so sam would probs be safe unless none fo them complied it was all about elle then) As for the cure...no scientific hypothesis starts with a guarantee. There are recordings in the game where it said they tried with infected people but didnt work. Ellie was the first subject like this. It should have been told better but. You really think Marlene didnt try everything else (blood, bone marrow etc) before breaking the promise she made Anna? Onxe marlene lowered the gun she was willing to let Ellie chose...Joel even looked atEllie, and then shot Marlene. He knows what he did wasnt correct, just for the good of keeping Ellie alive, maybe hating him, but she is alive.
I feel like you totally misread Marlene and parts of the intro. Marlene did the best she could, she loves Ellie in her own way. She even gave Ellie to FEDRA, her enemies, just because she knew that this was the one place Ellie could grow up safe, would get educated, without hunger and without the threat of infected. Marlene is radically selfless, she killed her best friend, the one person she went through the apocalypse with, Marlene is the exact opposite from Joel. Marlene is okay with being hated, she takes on the pressureand the weight of sending out soldiers who will die eventually. Not because she doesn't care about people, but because she does. She wants to build a better world and safe society. Marlene loves Ellie so much and knew her so well, that she knew Ellie would be happy to die, if that means they can help other people. Marlene not telling Ellie is out of love for her, she doesn't want to scare her or worry. She wants her to comfortable and hopeful, again like a lie from a parent. And Ellie would have chosen death 100%. She said "there is no half way about it", when she saw Sam's bite, she immedialty cut open her hand, not even flinching. And Ellie knows that Joel is lying, she sensed it in the car and were sure about it later. I think when she talked about Riley, Tess and Sam her point was about how she lost such great people and that she would do anything to prevent something like that happening again, but Joel interupts her. Joel tries to immediatly forget about it and make Ellie forget about it. He tries to seperate her from whatever could get between them, he tells her that she would find something else to live for, that nothing is her fault, she doesn't owe anyone and he tries to remember her everything about their journey so she will stay with him. His intention is love, but his actions aren't driven by love, their driven by fear. His trauma makes him afraid an incapable of losing again. Him being calm in the hospital is some sort of dissociating himself, so he can just function. These soldiers didn't do anything to Ellie. They might even agree with Joel on some points and would be angry at Marlene for sacrificing a child. Maybe some of those soldiers are a Joel to their Ellie and Tess back home and Joel just kills them like there weren't real humans. Joel even knows that Marlene is right, that Ellie would have chosen death, that's why he lies to her. Ellie has no one but him, he is the only person in the world she cares about and trusts and he lies to her about the one thing that would given her life, every death and everything she did some sense. Joel loves Ellie, but everything he does this episode he does for himself, not for Ellie. He is radically selfish and therefore the opposite of Marlene. That all being said, everything that happend is understanable. From a emotionally standpoint I understand Joel 100%, I also understand Marlene and Ellie, especially Ellie. I love Joel but I always connected stronger with Ellie, I don't see Ellie through Joel's eyes, something most do. People will defend Joel forever and I get that, but what he did was wrong, horrific and not what Ellie wanted.
The classic trolley dilemma ¿would you kill one person to save many? throughout the series our perspective becomes tainted by the emotions we grew towards ellie and joel, so its compleatly normal to root for him while he's killing dozens of people to save ellie (kill many to save one). The big problem here is ¿what does ellie want? we don't know cause they didn't gave her the choice, but ¿do we? There are so many moments and conversations where we can see that she feels her inmunity is her purpose in life and that she is part of something greater, part of a mission to save this crumbling world. At the beginning of this episode joel says "you don't have to do this, lets just forget about the whole thing" as she answers "we finish what we started", showing her resolve to see things to the end, because if this didn't work then... ¿were all the deads so far (tess, sam, etc.) meaningless? When marlene tells joel "it's what she'd want" he looks down and you can see the doubt and remorse in his face for a second, because he knows she is right, but losing a child is not something he can bear... not again. I love this story for the first time i played the game 10 years ago, and reliving it in such an amazing quality has been a delight. Can't wait for season 2 and the horrors this world has in store for us.
14:02 If he did the right thing like you think he is, why lie? Tommy’s right about Joel; there are different solutions but Joel isn’t good at them. Marlene had the drop on Joel, she could have killed him and taken Ellie, and actually had put her gun down by her side. He didn’t want to give up his new daughter so that’s why he murdered her.
@DWN KAOMWN That is true. My point is that it is an oversimplification to say that the choices were to save Ellie or save the world. The choices were to save Ellie or let a group kill her because someone has a hunch that it will lead to a cure. For me, that's not enough of a reason to kill Ellie. At least run some tests first.
And I. Wanna say? Something. About what you said? At the. End saying that she was his world no that's not true but she did become his world. What's yourto me? It's. Possible? For him to. Find? That again. But she held a once in a lifetime cure in her body. And he knew for a fact she wasn't willing to die if it meant that it saves the world
I don't see. I believe the story was about him learning how to love and her. Knowing that she is more than just one Individually. That she is that becoming hope for humanity in general
I always see it as a red flag when people cheer Joel on during his rampage and his choice to essentially doom the world to save his daughter. I would do the same thing if I was in Joel's position and so would many other people, and yet his actions in these scenes are objectively morally wrong. It is what gives the scene emotional depth and nuance, the way it makes people realize they would do the same while understanding that it is the wrong thing to do. It is, above all, a complete and utter tragedy. From all the types of reactions I've seen to these scenes in both the game and the show, it is the people who wholeheartedly support and cheer Joel on that unsettle me.
you're not alone, a lot of people would be a joel. im not sure who i would be. but from the safe distance that im at, i think they were all wrong. it should have been Ellie's choice and they all robbed her of that. they should have woken her up, explained the full scope of the situation, and let her decide what to do with her own life. they all suck, imo.
I was mad at joel bc i felt he ruined the chance of humanity having a future just for one person. Im not a parent tho lol. I do think he shouldnt have lied to ellie….thats gonna bite him in the ass.
After all, is Joel the protective hero or the villain? How can you lie to a child who told you that after they take care of the matter, the cure will follow him wherever he wants? And that there can't be a middle ground after such a complicated journey full of horrible obstacles and very aggressive? How can Joel be so selfish in wanting to return to a past that no longer exists? To a past that turned him into a human wreck and now requires him to relive with Ellie what he lived with his daughter Sarah without asking her opinion if she accepts it or not? To prevent people from trying to find a possible cure for humanity is to be a "black hero" with a long black cape and a huge, well-sharpened scythe. I think there will be a lot of controversy between the two of them in the second season !!! Ellie will kill Joel...i bet !!!
Joel is without a doubt the bad guy in this, he was selfish, he killed (potentially innocent) people in cold blood, he played god by deciding who lived or died, and may have removed any chance of finding a cure to an infection that's ravaged the planet over the course of damn near half a century... and yet I still love the guy!? 😵 The Last of Us what are you doing to me gahd dayum eet 😭
I like The music while he is killing because in a way shows that thats not fun un fact makes it sad for him but is his last option to save Ellie I am not with you with Tommy I think he is a pushover and Bad brother not in todays world, in that world,i dont think sarah wouldve like how he was with her dad, Before The pandemia he was The single trouble maker going to his brother house to have breakfast, working for his brother, and now, "i am having yoyr life " - But i am with You 100% against The fireflies andMarleneb but i would be calm like Joel, killing people cslm but fast because who knows how is Ellie
Joel never had any reason to believe that she'd want to sacrifice herself, since before they reach the hospital, ellie wanted to follow him wherever he wanted to go. The doctor was also beyond stupid to hold a knife to a murder machine who plowed through a wave of soldiers
Marlene doesnt know Ellie snd viceversa, Ellie wont care ss much for Marlene as for the lie and Joel Some people want to believe thst Msrlene is luke themother ellie never hsd like in a soup opera but no, even Tess had a deeper conversation with Ellie Marlene had her in chains andjust went to sound likeDavid to me (I told them not kill you 😣 yak manipulative woman Why did she wantedsent Raley away? CraugMazinthr with Neil Drunkmanns blessing, the chernoby guy,, hw wrote this, by the post cast i can tellh Crsig doesnt think big of marlene, 😊, so curious what he would do next season, i hope heis so bad withJoel. I dont think so though i call the gsme ,',BEFORE NEILDRUKMANN WAS A FATHER' and this ''AFTER'' peroectives change 😜
I love how quickly you went from “Oh yay, Marlene!” to “Joel you better kill Marlene and BURN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND.” 😂
No one hurts our baby 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Burn it all!
Cant wait for season 2.
Ya i was laughing from how she was reacting to the rampage
LMFAOOOOO this is the first reaction I've seen where the MOMENT Marlene said "it does" the vibes flipped to "nah forget this entire hospital, burn it alllllllll down RIGHT NOW JOEL LET'S GOOOOOO" and I'm 100% here for this energy lmao
In the official podcast for this episode Neil Druckman, the game creator, said that during the play testing phase of the first game they saw a few trends. Parents agreed with Joel's actions almost 100% of the time while childless players were much more 50/50 on if they thought Joel did the right thing. And everyone has been arguing the nuance of this very human situation since 2013
I love how Joel so effectively disassociates. He is calm and emotionless as Death itself during that massacre.
Fun Fact: Laura Bailey is one of the nurses at the end. She played a major character in the 2nd game.
So there were two Critical Role cast members in this ep. Cool!
The most hated character of all time.
@@eliteteamkiller319 Unfortunately gamers are the most immature people on earth
She also played the same nurse in the original.
FUN FACT:
Ellie's Mom, Anna played by Ashley Johnson was the voice/action of/for Ellie in the video game, Abi.
Ashley also played the Seaver's youngest daughter Chrissy on "Growing Pains ( 1990 - 1992 ) and Patterson on Blindspot ( 2015 - 2020 ).
"Nerdy" Gretchen Grundler from Recess
And Pike in Vox Machina
It's good that you knew that the surgery meant killing her lol so many other reactors kept thinking so ellie won't be immune anymore and I'm just screaming at my screen yeah because she won't be alive lmao 😂 I think others thought that the cordyceps was on the outside of the brain but they even said INSIDE the brain 💀
I love how you picked up on the voice of Ashley Johnson so fast! Yes that's pyke from Vox Machina, also the voice actress for Ellie back in 2013 when the game came out!
This ending is so sad. Ellie was never allowed to decide either way whether she would want to go through with it or not. Her purpose was taken away from her and all the guilt she feels over surviving while everyone she cares about dies is going to eat her alive. Her "okay" at the end definitely indicates to me that she knows Joel is lying about something and if she ever finds out exactly how big his lie really was, it's going to severely damage their relationship and that is so incredibly sad because they love and need each other so much. It's just an impossible situation though. If I were in Joel's shoes I would have done exactly the same thing, minus the lying I suppose.
Yep it was Ashley Johnson in the beginning. Who also played Ellie in the games!
“Its adding salt in the womb”
Yeah that would be bad lol
The giraffe was incredibly realistic.....because it was real! tada! They were fortunate enough to film at a giraffe feeding exhibit at the local canada zoo while filming for the show.
Okay fun facts for ya... incase you havent read likely the 100 other people who explained this but i often see people forget the last fact.
The woman we see give birth to ellie is ashkey johnson. She is the voice of ellie in the game.... okay that out of the way.
Ashley is also the voice of our favorite Gnome... Pike from Vox Machina. Ashley created pike for their home d&d game that later became a live game then a show.
Laura Bailey is another voice actor that is very close friends with ashley. Laura is the voice of an important character in the second game but also she played one of the nurses at the end that joel didnt shoot. (This is not the important character she voiced in season 2 btw) Laura is also Vex in Vox Machina.
Holy shit you actually nailed it maybe a minute after i made this comment. Good job girl! You got some good ears. I can place pike since i know its pike but if i didnt know i doubt id make that connection. Bravo!
Joel is so dissociated from everything at the end because he only has one goal, to get Ellie out of that hospital. The way he says “unhook her” gives me chills because it’s so monotone and emotionless, he’s seeing red.
"EXECUTE!!! ... I'm sorry." lmfaoooo I'm dying at your bloodthirst, but also, same.
This has been such a fun series!! I'm so glad you decided to do it, so thank you for that
The question about giving Ellie the choice is what does Marlene do if Ellie says no? Say "OK, off you go then"? And out the door goes the last hope for defeating the fungus.
The mistake you make with the Cap comparison is that Cap says we're not going to let a few die to save the many, we're going to save them all. In this case not letting the one die dooms many to die horribly, there is no saving everyone in this situation.
Order of events:
2:05 decide to play some video games
2:15 finished updating and checking for new mods
2:16 decided to take a fat dab before i start playing
2:20 set up my rig for a quick clean and look to see if there are any good youtube videos to watch while i clean
2:21 see your thumbnail and say fuck it watching this before i game
Youre channel has become one of those channels my adhd gets hyped for and will drop everything to make time for.
Ellie very much would have accepted it. She has a savior complex and survivors guilt.
The end of this episode was almost identical to the game. The only difference for this segment is how they get to the hospital (they encounter infected, and then make their way through some flooding, and Ellie nearly drowns, and that's where they are captured, while Joel is performing CPR). Otherwise it's almost exactly the same, including the massacre, which you could imagine makes for some intense gameplay.
You can always tell which reactors are parents hahaha
Present 👋🏾 😂
Marlene, Jerry, and Joel took away Ellie's choice to go through with it
Agreed, but they still should've asked her.
100 percent agree. I think Joel knows she would say yes.
Careful with the “J” name so you don’t spoil season 2
@@Mike_unhinged I already played the game long time ago so I could care less about the spoilers at this point
@@chandlermorgan708 So you're going to spoil it for anyone that hasn't played the game? Because you already played it so who cares about anyone else?
"Fuck your tears. Fuck your nasty tears."
Brilliant. 🤣
This is definitely why this story is top tier, for games and for TV, is this complicated ending. But in the end, the mistake both sides made was not giving Ellie her own voice in this. One theory I heard was that it might not have turned out this way if they had told Ellie, she might have been the only one to talk Joel down. Moreover, I mean just give the two the chance to say goodbye and Joel to make peace with it, which again, probably would have been easier if Ellie had been the one to talk him down. But both sides did the very human thing and kept Ellie in the dark for their own goals, regardless of how selfish or selfless they were. And we'll never really know for sure if the cure would have even worked, or if Ellie even would have been able to talk Joel into going along with it. The original writers wanted to explore both sides of love, specifically a parent's, how beautiful but also how dark it could be, and they nailed it.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾good points
"We're fucking the shit up, we're bringing the shit down" this is why I love your reaction Abi. Hahaha. If we were there, we will probably help Joel out.
Dude, I partly raised my niece all the way through infancy to now (she’s 13 soon) and if I was in Joel’s position I would’ve 100% done the same. The whole world could burn before my kid was killed and treated like a lab rat, fuck that. Especially when she said they “THINK” they have a cure. It’s not like people were removing covid patients lungs to get a vaccine(as an example), and Ellie literally got immunised through the umbilical chord which is basically a blood transfusion. There are other ways to get a vaccine they just didn’t want to figure it out (despite the apocalypse happening 20yrs ago at that point iirc)
There is such a thing as non fatal brain surgery. Seems like they could extract SOME of the fungus for study. But the doctor didn't care because it wasn't HIS daughter. If it were I'll bet he would have tried some non invasive study first. Unethical medicine is often faster and more effective more quickly... still evil.
His name…is Joel Wick. Joel and Marlene were afraid of what the answer would be which is why they didn’t ask the question, taking away Ellie’s choice.
So right! That problem is they took away her choice! And can we get Pedro in the next JW movie as his partner in crime 👀
Thanks for joining us on this journey! We loved your reactions! ❤
See you next season 💜
The giraffe was real, the background was green screen.
Love it 😍
Regardless of whether Joel was wrong, Marlene was wronger. She was the one who was going to kill a child for a *maybe* on the justification that "she'd want it" but refused to actually tell said child the truth, much less be patient and let the situation wait a few years until Ellie was actually mature enough to make a decision.
Btw the giraffe was real hehe, they shot that scene at a zoo. Giraffes name is Nabo. Also, it’s confirmed that Season 2 will be the first half of the second game, and Season 3 will be the rest.
Hey, Abi! Ashley Johnson, who voiced Ellie in the game played Ellie's pregnant mom, Anna.
The giraffes are straight out of the game. I'm so glad they kept that scene in!
Save for the birth scene, Joel's attempted suicide story and a final action-packed push through a clicker- and bloater-infested tunnel en route to the hospital, the episode plays out almost exactly like the game!
There are no other options! Animals can't be used as test subjects because they're unaffected! Neurosurgeons are a rarity in an apocalyptic world! Humanity's existence is poised on a knife's edge. The stakes are too big to risk Ellie saying 'no'. Joel sacrificed the lives of everyone in the hospital and everyone who dies of cordyceps from that day forward!
Ellie had already decided before the hospital that she would see her mission through no matter what the cost and told Joel so. She said, "There's no halfway with this."
Who wouldn't sacrifice themselves to save the world? It is her sole purpose for being. To deny fulfillment of this goal is to deny her destiny.
Frankly, even if she didn't want to, she should be forced to kicking and screaming. It's devil's arithmetic but how would you feel if a loved one could have been spared but for the refusal of the one who carried the cure? What supreme arrogance!
The big surprise at the end of the game is when you are forced to kill the entire medical team to advance the plot. The game doesn't move along until you slaughter them all.
At that point, you realize that your POV character, Joel, is the villain who dooms the world for purely selfish reasons. Heroes sacrifice. Joel does not.
Ellie knows he is lying to her but she accepts the lie out of love for her surrogate father because the truth of his monstrous, self-serving decision is too horrifying to acknowledge.
The hero was the villain all along.
Correction, all you have to do is shoot the doctor. The nurses are just options. Ppl forget that.
@@BrownPhoenix Even so, Joel is still a s#!theel. The reason Kathleen was added to the show was so that the parallels between her and Joel would be plainly apparent at the climax. She neglects the safety of her community to satisfy a selfish obsession mercilessly. Joel is no different. He deserves his fate. It's too bad he dragged Ellie down with him.
I have heard there is optional dialog in the game that hints at Joel's suicide attempt.
Great season, finale. I think it cool to have Ashley Johnson the voice of Ellie in the games, plays her mother in the show. I noticed that in the same manner that Ellie killed Riley, it is almost similar to Marlene killing Ellie mom. I like how both Joel and Ellie talk about how Joel reason for the scar on his head was because he tried to take his own life after the loss of Sarah. As Ellie tells him about killing Riley.
I understand Joel reason for killing the Fireflies was because he grew attached to Ellie and because he didn't want to lose another daughter. This is why Marlene wants to keep Joel away from Ellie. But man I feel he shouldn't had lied to her. You can tell Ellie knows he's lying to her with the story of the Fireflies not finding a cure. Ellie is questioning her purpose. She doesn't know how to confront Joel with why she doesn't believe his story. But anyway, season 2 is gonna be interesting. But great reaction Abi and I hope you have a wonderful day. Stay safe, stay positive, stay blessed, take care and stay amazing.
Great conversations and great action! Love seeing Anna and how strong she was even if it was for a sec 😭 Ellie’s strength must be genetic! Also enjoy the rest of your week!
@@abi_corinne You as well
15:00 bro it was so funny how vicious and vile I was when they told me they were gonna kill my daughter figure I was throwing bricks, Molotovs, my favorite sound was either breaking a
2x4 over their heads or them screaming when I got a flamethrower
I'm listening to you talk at the end and she made it very clear. She would be willing to through the development of her character and all that she went. Why the truth wasn't told to her? Because he knew if it meant giving her life she was ready. She became a serious daughter to him. He didn't believe it was possible and then it happened which means it can happen again. And she would become a story. That he would tell someone and how she save the world and how he helped guide her through the Apocalypse.
I do not have a child and I am still 100 percent behind joel on this. The fireflies went about this the stupidest possible way. You separated them knocked him out took them away from the person they cared about the most then drugged her and put her in surgery without telling her and told joel hey thanks for bringing her she's gonna die but here's her knife have a nice life. Like excuse me? what?
also say she was a full consenting adult you are still killing the so called only immune person you have ever seen without doing tests, on a whim that it might work...
Marlene didn't even wanna ask what Ellie wanted to do. She didn't want there to be any chance of her answer being no. Joel shouldn't have lied though. He didn't want any chance of being told by Ellie that he did the wrong thing.
Well someone beat me to it. This was exactly what I was gonna comment.
Both Marlene and Joel were wrong for the same reason all for the sake of having plausible denialablity.
All due respect, you and many others make it seem like Ellie even had a choice to start with, which she never had even if given a choice.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 But that's the thing, both of them COULD have let her be awake to make a choice but they didn't because they were both terrified to take a chance to hear what her choice would be and its easier to make the self serving choice yourself instead of leaving it up to chance.
@@DingoEnderZOE2 Even if Ellie was given a choice, it would've been made for her by Joel or Marlene. If Ellie says yes, then Joel would've gone on his murderous rampage like in the show to save her and if she says no, then Marlene would've still went with the surgery that would kill Ellie. The choice if given to Ellie would've been an illusion, so it wouldn't have mattered either way.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 No if Elle was given a choice and both still tried to force their choice they would have no means to hide behind plausible denialablity and they wouldn't have been able to hide from the consequences of that.
If Elle made her choice and Joel ignored it then Elle would on the spot ABSOLUTELY hate Joel and Joel desperately wanted to avoid that for his benefit.
If Elle made her choice Marlene would then be entirely justified because she has confirmation that Elle would have been on her side.
Elle not being given the choice was just beneficial to both Joel and Elle.
So yeah it absolutely would have mattered.
i just realized a better lie joel could have told was that the fireflies lied and tried to kill him without telling him anything so he defended himself. then he interrogated someone and found out they were going to kill HER and that they didn't know what they were doing and couldn't make a cure. so after killing a bunch to get her out of there, they were all hostile so he had to run. he could have even mentioned that marlene was killed by the fireflies for objecting to them killing Ellie (which in the game it was kinda implied that that's probably what would have happened if she had objected)
I never thought about things being out of Marlene's hands once Ellie arrived. That's a much better lie. Lol
Ashley Johnson also plays Ellie in the video game.
Oh, and the giraffe was real. The background was CGI. They got it on loan from the Calgary zoo.
Oh, and the failed attempt would go a long way to explaining Joel's hearing loss on his right side.
This episode was so good love the video ABI Nation stay motivated Dream big 1 mill on the way
So figure I'll put my two cents in about the ending and the whole "Marlene" situation. Her line at the end when she questions Joel about "what would Ellie want" is meant to be correct / something he can't honestly argue against- this is hinted at early in the episode when the latter tells Joel that everything she's gone through has to mean something / be worth all the trauma / strife she's endured. They're technically both in the wrong for acting without Ellie's consent/consideration, but there's a reason why Joel doesn't wait for her to wake up after that argument was made by Marlene in the parking garage- It's because deep down he knows Ellie WOULD choose to lay down her life in this situation. And he's NOT willing to lose another daughter regardless of what she might want. While I completely 100% empathize with his plight, the implicature in the game (and arguably the show as well) is that Joel chose to not lose his surrogate daughter by denying her agency (not considering her wishes & lying to her about it). It's a choice I can absolutely get behind as a character, but it was ultimately not done selflessly. All of that being said, great video as always!
Marlene was definitely the more selfless of the two. She was selfish is not having the conversation with Ellie, Joel and the doctor about what was going to happen - with Joel tied up or sedated - which would have been the ethical, honest thing. She claims it was to spare Ellie pain and fear of dying. She can't tell Joel that then turn around and make the argument about Ellie's choice. Lol. I think Marlene was sparing herself the pain of having to tell Ellie and experience her reaction. Even if Ellie had said no or that she needed more time to think, Marlene would have gone through with the surgery. Maybe things would have been diffused if Ellie could have told Joel it was her choice and said goodbye. But the minute she was on her way to surgery, the outcome would have been the same. Just even more of a betrayal on Joel's end. He couldn't let her go.
Well, I would wish Joel luck in "saving everbody," but he's not Cap. His plan is "I saved mine, everybody else is on their fucking own."
Laura Bailey was one of the nurses when the doctor got shot
Now THIS is Joel aka Rambo.
In the game you only have to kill the one doctor... but I killed everyone in that room. I needed to save my babygirl 😭😭😭
I normally don't pick sides, but when I do, I prefer the side that makes the most sense. Marlene was making a hard choice for the good of humanity and Joel selfishly stood in the way of that, dooming the human race to keep living in that hellish world. Marlene's only mistake was not killing Joel right then and there.
The Fireflies were going to kill the only known immune person because someone thinks they understand her immunity and they think that can lead to a cure. They aren't running tests to see white blood cells, antibodies, etc.? They aren't going to check if the chemical that may be in her brain could be found elsewhere? There is virtually no chance they are successful and would have killed Ellie for nothing.
As a non-parent, I personally am very much against Joel's decision and side with the Fireflies, but I very much enjoyed your reaction and I'm sure I'd probably do a 180 on my perspective if I was a parent.
Marlene wasn't strong enough to keep her promise to Anna, but Joel was. He kept her safe and alive.
So someone fighting for democracy and freedom for over 20 years is weak?
@tananario When it comes to honoring her promise to a lifelong friend to protect and keep Ellie safe, yes.
Yeah, it's clear with Marlene that she's been keeping Ellie away for Ellie's safety, and it's interesting to contrast that with Joel to keep Ellie close for the same reason. I originally deeply disagreed with Joel when I played the game. But in hindsight no one was "right", and they both removed the choice from Ellie. Everyone could've done better and it's a shame lies had to be lost because of those mistakes. I'll have to finally play Part II now, before season 2
@Erimentos101 In my mind, a 14 year old kid shouldn't even be asked to make such a decision. Just as I agree with Joel taking on the burden of the truth so Ellie doesn't have to carry that load.
For you to think that it was about "strength" is a clear indication that you need take a hard look at your values.
Same reaction I had! Like no way you are going to take my child and basically experiment on her! And for what? The rest of the shitty world? No way, there has to be a better way.
Laura is Vax…….any critters lol at this too?
Fun fact Laura is one of the nurses.
it's Laura and Liam's fault
Damn, didn't realize Abi was so ruthless. lol
What a great reaction! We very much feel the same way about the situation 😂
Wonderful finale for this series, I played the first game when I was around 14 and I was one of the people who thought Joel did the human thing most would do. In a world like TLOU I doubt anyone would be out there actually pretending to be a hero. It's more so wishful thinking. We're not even sure the fireflies would be willing to share the cure with FEDRA and other big entities. Although I understand both sides, they are not saints either and we actually know little about them as an organization and all its leaders.
I have played the game numerous times throughout the years but now that I'm an adult and I'm in college I have come to experience a lot of things, even cruel ones, in my life. Now watching the show even though I am not a parent I realize I might do the same thing Joel did for other people in my life, like my brothers. For any of them especially my little brother.
I'm sure my two big brothers would do the same for us. They played the game before I did and they told me they understood Joel because of us. I am their little sister but because of things in our life and the absence of our dad they were parental figures for me. Now my mom has been absent in my little brother's life so I took the role of that of a mother for him. He's 13 and my brothers and I have tried our best for him. He's a very strong, emotional and kind kid. I'd never put the rest of the world first, him and my brothers are my priorities.
Even in a world like ours people who didn't know us took a lot of things from us when we were children. They put themselves before us, so why do we have to do the opposite? I believe in the kindness and beauty of the world but we as people don't owe anything to anyone. Us 4 brought ourselves up with no one else helping us. If I had to choose between saving the world or saving my brothers I wouldn't even hesitate.
It looks realistic because those are real Giraffes.
Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.
Joel should have just told Ellie the truth.
The Fireflies were going to cut her up just on a hunch, no hard evidence.
Everyone should had told her the truth 😭
"Hard evidence" isn't possible for something that's never been tried before. That's not how science works.
Marlene didn't ask Ellie she was scared she would say no
joe didn't ask Ellie he was scared she would say yes
wonder what she would of said give the choses
Theres 2 type of people in the world. People who think Joel was right by saving Ellie and taking the cure away from the world, and people who are right
I'm always shocked at how many people think that saving humanity is less important that just 1 life. Joel is selfishly doing this for him, not for ellie, and because of him, millions more people just like her will suffer a fate that could've been avoided.
the world took sarah away from him, so now he’s taking their cure. what he did is was understandable. i mean i would hope a dad would fight like crazy for their daughter…
@Azula🩸 yeah of course it's understandable from his perspective. But from everyone else on earth's perspective, he's basically the worst person ever lol. That's why it's a good story, that it's morally gray. When I played the game I fully understood why Joel did what he did, but I also thought that I wasn't really playing a protagonist anymore. Which is fine, he's still one of my favorite characters
The formation and distribution of the cure is not a sure thing. Even scientists say the doctor was skipping over lots of options to the most invasive option. For Joel, Ellie IS the whole world. They blindsided Joel. Marlene is in charge. She botched this. If they were going to unethically kill a minor without consent for the greater good, they also should have killed Joel in his sleep or... kept him in the dark until the surgery was done. Half measures from Marlene. Someone says because she was in pain about Ellie and knew Joel was the only one who could relate. She was hoping he would forgive her for making the tough call... I can see that but... It is such a big ask to expect objective humanity-saving philosophy from Joel in the same moment he finds out you are going to cut out his daughters brain! They could have given him a chance to talk to Ellie about it and say goodbye. But that would also be a chance for him to talk her out of it. So complicated.
Really enjoyed your reaction to the last of us. I would totally watch you play the game!
I’d be throwing my poor controller 😭
10:46 Yeah, but here you are flipping off Vex'ahlia.
Assuming the cure was a 50/50 chance of working. Those odds aren't good enough for me to sacrifice someone I love. 70/30 isn't good enough. 80/20 I'd still have my reservations. 90/10 is where the chance has to be for me to even consider staying out of it. And even then, the person being the sacrifice must be involved 100%. Here's the best case scenario in my head.
The cure has a 90% of working.
Ellie is told this, and make the choice on her own with no one to sway the options.
Ellie agrees that 90% is good enough and decides to go through with it
Only if those conditions are met would I stay out of it and accept the loss. Otherwise I'm burning everything down.
not the Hisoka reaction to Joel's violence
😂
So I can finally ask, Living with yourself after fear or vengance consumes you, after taking certain actions, forgiveness. Some of the people Joel killed probably had partners, sons, daughters, after all, no matter what, they were looking for a cure for humanity. . How do you think Joel feels. Will he be able to live with himself?
EDIT: also a question to ask but. if Joel was right in his actions, was kathleen right? If Sam and Henry were strangers and were in the way of Joel at the hospital, at a minimum Sam would have ended up without a brother.
Kathleen’s brother made the choice to forgive Henry. Ellie was never given a choice in her situation. I get where you’re trying to go but these are not the same situations for me. Also side note: What’s the guarantee this surgery would work? It seems more experimental versus having the formula to make the cure
@@abi_corinne yeah theyre things to consider for joel not for us lol but it shows how far a warped mind can go.
You know henry would have been in the pile of bodies had he been on the way in the hospital. (He didnt shoot the nurses so sam would probs be safe unless none fo them complied it was all about elle then)
As for the cure...no scientific hypothesis starts with a guarantee. There are recordings in the game where it said they tried with infected people but didnt work. Ellie was the first subject like this. It should have been told better but. You really think Marlene didnt try everything else (blood, bone marrow etc) before breaking the promise she made Anna?
Onxe marlene lowered the gun she was willing to let Ellie chose...Joel even looked atEllie, and then shot Marlene. He knows what he did wasnt correct, just for the good of keeping Ellie alive, maybe hating him, but she is alive.
I would have done the same thing as Joel...Cure be damned.
Crazy how the giraffe was real!
So wait you reacted to gameplay/cutscenes or you will? Awesome finale reaction!!
I’ve watched the game play after each episode! Stunning game 👏🏾
@@abi_corinne right?! I can't wait to see PC gameplay. Looking forward to starting your LoVM reactions!!❤️
I feel like you totally misread Marlene and parts of the intro. Marlene did the best she could, she loves Ellie in her own way. She even gave Ellie to FEDRA, her enemies, just because she knew that this was the one place Ellie could grow up safe, would get educated, without hunger and without the threat of infected. Marlene is radically selfless, she killed her best friend, the one person she went through the apocalypse with, Marlene is the exact opposite from Joel. Marlene is okay with being hated, she takes on the pressureand the weight of sending out soldiers who will die eventually. Not because she doesn't care about people, but because she does. She wants to build a better world and safe society. Marlene loves Ellie so much and knew her so well, that she knew Ellie would be happy to die, if that means they can help other people. Marlene not telling Ellie is out of love for her, she doesn't want to scare her or worry. She wants her to comfortable and hopeful, again like a lie from a parent.
And Ellie would have chosen death 100%. She said "there is no half way about it", when she saw Sam's bite, she immedialty cut open her hand, not even flinching. And Ellie knows that Joel is lying, she sensed it in the car and were sure about it later. I think when she talked about Riley, Tess and Sam her point was about how she lost such great people and that she would do anything to prevent something like that happening again, but Joel interupts her.
Joel tries to immediatly forget about it and make Ellie forget about it. He tries to seperate her from whatever could get between them, he tells her that she would find something else to live for, that nothing is her fault, she doesn't owe anyone and he tries to remember her everything about their journey so she will stay with him. His intention is love, but his actions aren't driven by love, their driven by fear. His trauma makes him afraid an incapable of losing again. Him being calm in the hospital is some sort of dissociating himself, so he can just function. These soldiers didn't do anything to Ellie. They might even agree with Joel on some points and would be angry at Marlene for sacrificing a child. Maybe some of those soldiers are a Joel to their Ellie and Tess back home and Joel just kills them like there weren't real humans.
Joel even knows that Marlene is right, that Ellie would have chosen death, that's why he lies to her. Ellie has no one but him, he is the only person in the world she cares about and trusts and he lies to her about the one thing that would given her life, every death and everything she did some sense. Joel loves Ellie, but everything he does this episode he does for himself, not for Ellie. He is radically selfish and therefore the opposite of Marlene.
That all being said, everything that happend is understanable. From a emotionally standpoint I understand Joel 100%, I also understand Marlene and Ellie, especially Ellie. I love Joel but I always connected stronger with Ellie, I don't see Ellie through Joel's eyes, something most do. People will defend Joel forever and I get that, but what he did was wrong, horrific and not what Ellie wanted.
Giraffe was real. The rest was bluescreen.
The classic trolley dilemma ¿would you kill one person to save many? throughout the series our perspective becomes tainted by the emotions we grew towards ellie and joel, so its compleatly normal to root for him while he's killing dozens of people to save ellie (kill many to save one). The big problem here is ¿what does ellie want? we don't know cause they didn't gave her the choice, but ¿do we? There are so many moments and conversations where we can see that she feels her inmunity is her purpose in life and that she is part of something greater, part of a mission to save this crumbling world. At the beginning of this episode joel says "you don't have to do this, lets just forget about the whole thing" as she answers "we finish what we started", showing her resolve to see things to the end, because if this didn't work then... ¿were all the deads so far (tess, sam, etc.) meaningless? When marlene tells joel "it's what she'd want" he looks down and you can see the doubt and remorse in his face for a second, because he knows she is right, but losing a child is not something he can bear... not again. I love this story for the first time i played the game 10 years ago, and reliving it in such an amazing quality has been a delight. Can't wait for season 2 and the horrors this world has in store for us.
14:02 If he did the right thing like you think he is, why lie? Tommy’s right about Joel; there are different solutions but Joel isn’t good at them. Marlene had the drop on Joel, she could have killed him and taken Ellie, and actually had put her gun down by her side. He didn’t want to give up his new daughter so that’s why he murdered her.
And by extension, Joel murdered the world.
There is virtually no chance the Fireflies come up with a cure. Joel's motives weren't righteous, but it didn't cost the world as a whole.
@@toddwynn3397 Thanks to Joel, we'll never know, because he killed the doctor and took Ellie.
@DWN KAOMWN That is true. My point is that it is an oversimplification to say that the choices were to save Ellie or save the world. The choices were to save Ellie or let a group kill her because someone has a hunch that it will lead to a cure. For me, that's not enough of a reason to kill Ellie. At least run some tests first.
Fun Fact: The giraffe is real!!! Not CGI!!!
PLAY THE GAME!! 😂
😭 I’ll die!! You think I was scared in this with barely any infected?! The game would take 3 years off my life lol
@@abi_corinne Just go in always thinking about the end goal, when YOU have to save ‘baby girl’. #WorthIt 😉
I am a father. Joel did the right thing.
I would have loved to see you play the game lol
And I. Wanna say? Something. About what you said? At the. End saying that she was his world no that's not true but she did become his world. What's yourto me? It's. Possible? For him to. Find? That again. But she held a once in a lifetime cure in her body. And he knew for a fact she wasn't willing to die if it meant that it saves the world
I don't see. I believe the story was about him learning how to love and her. Knowing that she is more than just one Individually. That she is that becoming hope for humanity in general
next season is gonna be dark and twisted
I always see it as a red flag when people cheer Joel on during his rampage and his choice to essentially doom the world to save his daughter. I would do the same thing if I was in Joel's position and so would many other people, and yet his actions in these scenes are objectively morally wrong. It is what gives the scene emotional depth and nuance, the way it makes people realize they would do the same while understanding that it is the wrong thing to do. It is, above all, a complete and utter tragedy. From all the types of reactions I've seen to these scenes in both the game and the show, it is the people who wholeheartedly support and cheer Joel on that unsettle me.
you're not alone, a lot of people would be a joel. im not sure who i would be. but from the safe distance that im at, i think they were all wrong. it should have been Ellie's choice and they all robbed her of that. they should have woken her up, explained the full scope of the situation, and let her decide what to do with her own life. they all suck, imo.
Agreed! Ellie needed to make this choice
I was mad at joel bc i felt he ruined the chance of humanity having a future just for one person. Im not a parent tho lol. I do think he shouldnt have lied to ellie….thats gonna bite him in the ass.
After all, is Joel the protective hero or the villain?
How can you lie to a child who told you that after they take care of the matter, the cure will follow him wherever he wants? And that there can't be a middle ground after such a complicated journey full of horrible obstacles and very aggressive?
How can Joel be so selfish in wanting to return to a past that no longer exists? To a past that turned him into a human wreck and now requires him to relive with Ellie what he lived with his daughter Sarah without asking her opinion if she accepts it or not?
To prevent people from trying to find a possible cure for humanity is to be a "black hero" with a long black cape and a huge, well-sharpened scythe. I think there will be a lot of controversy between the two of them in the second season !!! Ellie will kill Joel...i bet !!!
Joel is without a doubt the bad guy in this, he was selfish, he killed (potentially innocent) people in cold blood, he played god by deciding who lived or died, and may have removed any chance of finding a cure to an infection that's ravaged the planet over the course of damn near half a century... and yet I still love the guy!? 😵 The Last of Us what are you doing to me gahd dayum eet 😭
"We don't trade lives."
Proceeds to murder a hospital full of people to, you know... trade a life.
Its ok to trade the lives of people who trade lives though.
I like The music while he is killing because in a way shows that thats not fun un fact makes it sad for him but is his last option to save Ellie
I am not with you with Tommy I think he is a pushover and Bad brother not in todays world, in that world,i dont think sarah wouldve like how he was with her dad, Before The pandemia he was The single trouble maker going to his brother house to have breakfast, working for his brother, and now, "i am having yoyr life " -
But i am with You 100% against The fireflies andMarleneb but i would be calm like Joel, killing people cslm but fast because who knows how is Ellie
Play part 2!
Joel never had any reason to believe that she'd want to sacrifice herself, since before they reach the hospital, ellie wanted to follow him wherever he wanted to go. The doctor was also beyond stupid to hold a knife to a murder machine who plowed through a wave of soldiers
Marlene doesnt know Ellie snd viceversa,
Ellie wont care ss much for Marlene as for the lie and Joel
Some people want to believe thst Msrlene is luke themother ellie never hsd like in a soup opera but no, even Tess had a deeper conversation with Ellie
Marlene had her in chains andjust went to sound likeDavid to me (I told them not kill you 😣 yak manipulative woman
Why did she wantedsent Raley away?
CraugMazinthr with Neil Drunkmanns blessing, the chernoby guy,, hw wrote this, by the post cast i can tellh Crsig doesnt think big of marlene, 😊, so curious what he would do next season, i hope heis so bad withJoel. I dont think so though i call the gsme ,',BEFORE NEILDRUKMANN WAS A FATHER' and this ''AFTER'' peroectives change 😜
A certain muscular character that rhymes with your name is gonna play some golf next season.