I use RG-174 for feedline on an inverted vee on a SOTABeams 10m travel mast. The mast can be a bit flexy, but one way to manage it is to tie the coax to the mast at several points using Velcro strips, heavy duty twist ties, or the like. This keeps the coax in line with the mast when wind or tension on the antenna starts to pull the top of the mast over a bit. Keeping the coax in line with the mast keeps its load in line with the mast so that it doesn't add to the mass pulling the tip over toward the ground.
I like to do the same too. I usually have Bongo Ties or velcro on my coax and wire antennas, which you might have noticed in the video. I'll usually use a couple of those to keep things in order. i didn't do that here though so people can really see how the masts behave and then plan for what's best for their usage.
For Field operations consider a three legged mass guyed configuration. The antenna is two legs and the coax being the Third leg. We used this configuration for many Field Day Ops. where no trees are available for the dipole deployment. the Mast is raised sufficient to provide an even tension on all three support lines (two antenna element lines one coax line) This provides a symmetrical layout and everything can be pre-marked for best length.
I think ill be doing Inverted L's for set-up, because none of the mast's I've seen inspire confidence, especially in high winds. Thank you for the demonstrations.
I’m glad it helped! I’ve used inverted Ls many times. You might want to avoid carbon fiber though, since it can interact and affect the antenna if it’s to close. The carbon fiber masts I have work fine for EFHFs as a sloper or dipoles and OCFDs. But when I’ve tried roll-up J-poles or wire vertices, the carbon fiber does affect the SWR and performance some.
Nice comparison video. What I would like to see is using the masts as a support for vertical wire and what effect using a carbon fiber mast has versus a fiberglass mast. The theory says the fiberglass is RF transparent or nearly so. However, carbon fiber is conductive and NOT RF transparent so it would be like running another conductor next to the antenna.
I’ve tested that with my Ed Fong J-pole and maybe I should do a video on it. If the antenna to touching or very close to the carbon fiber mast, the SWR was way off. But if the pole was angled a little, so the antenna would hang away from it, then it looked and performed fine.
A three leg guyed tower is very common, so for a simple POTA setup where you are bringing everything. and have no control on what exists. a Light weight mast, light weight dipole and light weight coax it makes sense to use what you have and use each component as part of the antenna light weight portable (temporary) structure
The POTA20 is a pretty solid mast and I like it a lot so far. If you’re using it for a dipole/OCFD, there are some things that can help minimize the strain if you use heavier coax, like wrapping it or securing it to the mast. Also, keep in mind the the loss on lighter coax like RG316 isn’t as bad on lower frequencies, like 40m. Ultimately, it all depends on how you plan to use it.
@ I mainly plan on using it to hold up the wire end of an EFHW and maybe experiment with it is an inverted V. I use RG-316 95% of the time and even on 10m the loss isn’t that horrible. I usually use a 50’ run for my POTA activations.
I think if the coax was secured to the mast, with tape, ties, etc, it would help out some. This video was for more of a worst case scenario. Thanks for checking it out!
I’d be curious how much more they can handle if you wrap a little bit of Velcro around every few feet to hold the coax next to the mast instead of hanging further and further away as the mast bends.
You forgot LMR-240 Its my fav for hf and portable. Sturdy enough and low loss yet small. Same crimp cnctrs as rg8x. I also made an rf choke on each end of it. Try it and you will be impressed. Also good for base runs due to low loss on hf and cb. U can get cheap velcro to put every few feet as u raise mast. Keeps coax closer to mast and less weight ) “80 pcs Reusable Fastening Cable Ties 3 Sizes 6/8/10 inch Adjustable Cord Ties Cord Straps Cable Organizer Hook and Loop Ties for Cord Management，5 Colors”
Awesomeness using N9tax in back yard I tree but want a mast to closer to my downstairs room… I like the tripod and put up GMRS antenna- HOA so have take it down when done…
That Amazon Basics spear stand tripod is pretty nice. The smaller masts and 3/4" PVC fit in there perfectly, so it get's a lot of use. I just ordered an N9TAX last week and look forward to getting it on the air soon!
I've used the Goture a couple of times with the N9SAB OCFD and RG316 when I got it. It's not my favorite, but I picked it up during one of the Amazon sales a year ago. For the price, I figured it couldn't hurt. What I really dislike about it is the length when collapsed. It's not very travel friendly like the Carbon 6, POTA20, or Tactical Mini.
Why haven't you taken a look at the DX Commander replacement masts on DX Engineering? I think they would be applicable in a POTA or Field day application and the price points of the masts that are 10 meter and under are not bad.
I hear great things about the DX Commander Masts, I just don't own one--yet. But if Lord Callum or DX Engineering want to send me one, I'd be glad to put it to use, LOL. All the masts in this video were paid for by me, except for the Tactical Mini that I borrowed from a friend (but I've used that several times before).
Excellent video Mike! I use the Tactical Mini at the QTH to hold up my 10m speaker wire dipole. And I have the Carbon 6 that I've used in the field, and really like it as well. 73 de KJ7LLX
Thanks! The SOTABEAMS mast are excellent. I wish they’d make an 8 meter one that would be somewhat lightweight but also perfect for a 25’ Rybakov vertical.
@MikeN2MAK If I could make one request... If you still have access, could you list the weights of each of the masts, without their protective coverings? 😁 I'm thinking of SOTA
Good test. Only variable missing is taping the coax to the mast at the top. When I put up the spiderbeam 12m mast with a linked dipole I'll tape the RG8X about 2ft below the tip and then kind of wrap it around the mast a couple times on the way up so that it doesn't put any lateral forces on the smaller top section. Works pretty well. I have the goture rod, I took the top section out because it was useless and I never do dipoles with it, I just use it for supporting the far end of endfeds. Been looking at the POTA 20's though lately. 73. K3KLB
Thanks, Kody! The POTA20 is nice. I sometimes use velcro ties to keep the coax close to the mast. I didn't think about that until I got started, since I was curious to see what the flex was like. I've used the Goture a few times with the N9SAB OCFD, so I knew it'd work, but that was with RG316 or RG174. It's always good to have options thought. If I'm doing a hike-in POTA or SOTA, I'll go with a lighter coax and mast. But when I'm operating from my car most of the time in the winter, it's nice to be able to use better coax.
I've done the same thing except with zip ties. I'll put one two sections down from the top and then another two sections down so that the entire weight of the coax isn't pulling on the feedpoint part of the mast. I have the Spiderbeam 12m as well and its a really great mast. I also have the Tactical 7000 HDS and it works almost as good as the Spiderbeam. With the 7000 sometimes I will use RG-174 coax which weighs almost nothing. I also have a Max Gains 28.5' mast which I could almost climb up because it is so solid. 73 KD5YOU
@kd5you1 curious which MGS Mast you have? What model and what have you done with it? I've been looking at them, particularly to put a home brew 10m moxon on top of. Along with the possibility of supporting wire antennas and maybe a couple 17' whips as a dipole. I've wondered how stout they are and if they really need guy lines or not.
@@Kody10538 I have the 28.5 foot mast. I don't have it installed permanently, but I do set it up in the back yard and when I set up in the field. In calm weather they don't really need guys, but I would use them for a permanent installation. I use mine with a 40/30/20 meter linked inverted V and a Larsen 2/70 mobile antenna at the same time. It doesn't seem to have any issues with two lengths of RG8X coax even without zip ties.
Why would you not use guy ropes? I got a SOTABEAM Tactical Mini but won't run coax up it because I'll be running a wire up it for a vertical for portable use with a tuner fed at the bottom. Or a dipole/doublet with guy ropes, the Mini came with some so why not use them? G4GHB.
Simply put, I did not guy the masts because of time. Plus I don’t always use guys in the field. Some parks prohibit putting stakes in the ground. Most of the time I use a mast it’s either a bigger one in a dive-over mount or a lightweight one tied off with the rubber wire or with a single spike leaning in a tree. Ultimately, this video was to give viewers a sense of how the masts behave with an antenna at the top and different coax weights. In addition to guying, securing the coax to the mast is another way to mitigate the strain on the masts. Thanks for watching though. Hopefully the video and comments like this give viewers ideas about what’s right for them.
Check out the DX Engineering Premier Telescoping Carbon Fiber Masts. I have the 33 foot one: DXE-TCFP-33. It has adjustable quick release locks so I can put it up in about 2 minutes and taken down in less time. Very sturdy, lightweight, and portable.
Get rid of the RG-58. it is lossy and isn't that light weight. 316 is even more lossy but it is light weight. Look at the loss tables. RG-8x or LMr240 is what you want as it has quite low loss. You can tape the coax to the mast so that not all the weight is applied at the top . Coiling the coax around the mast also helps.
I don’t use the RG58 much at all. It was just a cheap purchase from Amazon since it had BNC and I struggled at first doing my own RG316 cable assemblies. What I really want to try is the M&P Airborne 5. Good points and tips on taping or wrapping the coax, which is something I’ve done on occasion.
Where's the Spiderbeam ? They're fibreglass and built like a tank. Cancel Comment Pinned by Mike N2MAK @NovemberOneOscarGrouch 2 hours ago Oh, and if you don't get a comment from the owner of that SOTA beam then you can always send it my way ;-) Reply Mike N2MAK · 1 reply
Oh, and if you don't get a comment from the owner of that SOTA beam then you can always send it my way ;-)
I'm pinning this comment, LOL.
Thank you for taking the time to show this.
Thanks, I really appreciate it! I was hoping some might find it useful and even a little entertaining.
W2NVP here, I’ll be taking that mast back, thank you!
There you are, LOL. Thanks again for letting me borrow it!
I use RG-174 for feedline on an inverted vee on a SOTABeams 10m travel mast. The mast can be a bit flexy, but one way to manage it is to tie the coax to the mast at several points using Velcro strips, heavy duty twist ties, or the like. This keeps the coax in line with the mast when wind or tension on the antenna starts to pull the top of the mast over a bit. Keeping the coax in line with the mast keeps its load in line with the mast so that it doesn't add to the mass pulling the tip over toward the ground.
I like to do the same too. I usually have Bongo Ties or velcro on my coax and wire antennas, which you might have noticed in the video. I'll usually use a couple of those to keep things in order. i didn't do that here though so people can really see how the masts behave and then plan for what's best for their usage.
For Field operations consider a three legged mass guyed configuration.
The antenna is two legs and the coax being the Third leg. We used this configuration for many Field Day Ops. where no trees are available for the dipole deployment. the Mast is raised sufficient to provide an even tension on all three support lines (two antenna element lines one coax line) This provides a symmetrical layout and everything can be pre-marked for best length.
I’ve hear of this but never done it. I’ll have to try sometime. Thanks for watching!
I think ill be doing Inverted L's for set-up, because none of the mast's I've seen inspire confidence, especially in high winds. Thank you for the demonstrations.
I’m glad it helped! I’ve used inverted Ls many times. You might want to avoid carbon fiber though, since it can interact and affect the antenna if it’s to close. The carbon fiber masts I have work fine for EFHFs as a sloper or dipoles and OCFDs. But when I’ve tried roll-up J-poles or wire vertices, the carbon fiber does affect the SWR and performance some.
Nice comparison video. What I would like to see is using the masts as a support for vertical wire and what effect using a carbon fiber mast has versus a fiberglass mast. The theory says the fiberglass is RF transparent or nearly so. However, carbon fiber is conductive and NOT RF transparent so it would be like running another conductor next to the antenna.
I’ve tested that with my Ed Fong J-pole and maybe I should do a video on it. If the antenna to touching or very close to the carbon fiber mast, the SWR was way off. But if the pole was angled a little, so the antenna would hang away from it, then it looked and performed fine.
@@MikeN2MAK That is the type of info I was seeking. Thank you. Doing a video on it would be useful.
A three leg guyed tower is very common, so for a simple POTA setup where you are bringing everything. and have no control on what exists. a Light weight mast, light weight dipole and light weight coax it makes sense to use what you have and use each component as part of the antenna light weight portable (temporary) structure
That Giga Parts POTA20 has me rethinking my decision of the 30 foot one I pre-ordered.
The POTA20 is a pretty solid mast and I like it a lot so far. If you’re using it for a dipole/OCFD, there are some things that can help minimize the strain if you use heavier coax, like wrapping it or securing it to the mast. Also, keep in mind the the loss on lighter coax like RG316 isn’t as bad on lower frequencies, like 40m. Ultimately, it all depends on how you plan to use it.
@ I mainly plan on using it to hold up the wire end of an EFHW and maybe experiment with it is an inverted V. I use RG-316 95% of the time and even on 10m the loss isn’t that horrible. I usually use a 50’ run for my POTA activations.
@@truckinguy92 if you're using the mast for an EFHW sloper or inverted V than it shouldn't be any problem at all.
This was awesome, nice work 👍
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it!
The thinner more flexible masts are best using them just for a vertical antenna
Yeah. I just wish there were more smaller fiber glass options.
What if you tie off the coax to the mast with some bread ties or something as your raising it up
I think if the coax was secured to the mast, with tape, ties, etc, it would help out some. This video was for more of a worst case scenario. Thanks for checking it out!
My masts are-
Sotabeams 7000 tactical
Spiderbeam 10m
Spiderbeam 12m XHD
Most used is 10m spiderbeam followed by 12m xhd
Sweet! I almost picked up the 12m Spiderbeams at Hamvention earlier this year. I've certainly got my eye on it.
Try that flimsy mast with the coax lashed to the mast in a couple places up top. See if that gives you some counterbalance.
Will do-I’m sure that would make a difference and help some.
I’d be curious how much more they can handle if you wrap a little bit of Velcro around every few feet to hold the coax next to the mast instead of hanging further and further away as the mast bends.
The POTA20 is pretty solid for its size and weight. I think it might be just fine with the coax wrapped or tied.
I missed the premier, but this was a great video. Thanks Mike
Thanks!
You forgot LMR-240 Its my fav for hf and portable. Sturdy enough and low loss yet small. Same crimp cnctrs as rg8x. I also made an rf choke on each end of it. Try it and you will be impressed. Also good for base runs due to low loss on hf and cb. U can get cheap velcro to put every few feet as u raise mast. Keeps coax closer to mast and less weight ) “80 pcs Reusable Fastening Cable Ties 3 Sizes 6/8/10 inch Adjustable Cord Ties Cord Straps Cable Organizer Hook and Loop Ties for Cord Management，5 Colors”
I haven’t used LMR 240, but look forward to trying it sometime. I’d suspect it’s about the same weight as RG8X.
Awesomeness using N9tax in back yard I tree but want a mast to closer to my downstairs room… I like the tripod and put up GMRS antenna- HOA so have take it down when done…
That Amazon Basics spear stand tripod is pretty nice. The smaller masts and 3/4" PVC fit in there perfectly, so it get's a lot of use. I just ordered an N9TAX last week and look forward to getting it on the air soon!
Fun video. I would only use the Goture with an endfed. It isn’t strong enough to hold the coax. But the cost is also much less. DE AD0L
I've used the Goture a couple of times with the N9SAB OCFD and RG316 when I got it. It's not my favorite, but I picked it up during one of the Amazon sales a year ago. For the price, I figured it couldn't hurt. What I really dislike about it is the length when collapsed. It's not very travel friendly like the Carbon 6, POTA20, or Tactical Mini.
The angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the diameter and overall length of your coax run. - Beavis
Nailed it! LOL
Why haven't you taken a look at the DX Commander replacement masts on DX Engineering? I think they would be applicable in a POTA or Field day application and the price points of the masts that are 10 meter and under are not bad.
I hear great things about the DX Commander Masts, I just don't own one--yet. But if Lord Callum or DX Engineering want to send me one, I'd be glad to put it to use, LOL. All the masts in this video were paid for by me, except for the Tactical Mini that I borrowed from a friend (but I've used that several times before).
Excellent video Mike! I use the Tactical Mini at the QTH to hold up my 10m speaker wire dipole. And I have the Carbon 6 that I've used in the field, and really like it as well.
73 de KJ7LLX
Thanks! The SOTABEAMS mast are excellent. I wish they’d make an 8 meter one that would be somewhat lightweight but also perfect for a 25’ Rybakov vertical.
@MikeN2MAK If I could make one request... If you still have access, could you list the weights of each of the masts, without their protective coverings? 😁 I'm thinking of SOTA
@@rodgermckeon Will do! I still have 'em. I'll make a not to weigh them and follow up with you.
I shall now use feng as my everyday unit of measurement
It’s universal, LOL!! Thanks for watching and hopefully you found this useful or fun.
Good test. Only variable missing is taping the coax to the mast at the top. When I put up the spiderbeam 12m mast with a linked dipole I'll tape the RG8X about 2ft below the tip and then kind of wrap it around the mast a couple times on the way up so that it doesn't put any lateral forces on the smaller top section. Works pretty well. I have the goture rod, I took the top section out because it was useless and I never do dipoles with it, I just use it for supporting the far end of endfeds. Been looking at the POTA 20's though lately. 73. K3KLB
Thanks, Kody! The POTA20 is nice. I sometimes use velcro ties to keep the coax close to the mast. I didn't think about that until I got started, since I was curious to see what the flex was like. I've used the Goture a few times with the N9SAB OCFD, so I knew it'd work, but that was with RG316 or RG174. It's always good to have options thought. If I'm doing a hike-in POTA or SOTA, I'll go with a lighter coax and mast. But when I'm operating from my car most of the time in the winter, it's nice to be able to use better coax.
I've done the same thing except with zip ties. I'll put one two sections down from the top and then another two sections down so that the entire weight of the coax isn't pulling on the feedpoint part of the mast. I have the Spiderbeam 12m as well and its a really great mast. I also have the Tactical 7000 HDS and it works almost as good as the Spiderbeam. With the 7000 sometimes I will use RG-174 coax which weighs almost nothing. I also have a Max Gains 28.5' mast which I could almost climb up because it is so solid. 73 KD5YOU
@kd5you1 curious which MGS Mast you have? What model and what have you done with it? I've been looking at them, particularly to put a home brew 10m moxon on top of. Along with the possibility of supporting wire antennas and maybe a couple 17' whips as a dipole. I've wondered how stout they are and if they really need guy lines or not.
@@Kody10538 I have the 28.5 foot mast. I don't have it installed permanently, but I do set it up in the back yard and when I set up in the field. In calm weather they don't really need guys, but I would use them for a permanent installation. I use mine with a 40/30/20 meter linked inverted V and a Larsen 2/70 mobile antenna at the same time. It doesn't seem to have any issues with two lengths of RG8X coax even without zip ties.
Can you choose not to extend the top-most sections so it's stronger, yet shorter?
Yes, you can always remove or not use the tops sections. I typically skip the top 1-2 sections of the mast to be safe if I'm using a dipole or OCFD.
I have the mfj and the 7000hds . never had an issue
I’ve had good experience with both. The 7000hds would be perfect if its butt wasn’t so big-it won’t fit in my drive-over mount, LOL
@@MikeN2MAK YES!!! I have yet to find one that fits. So bungee cording to my tailgate is usually what I do
@@GAParksandPropagation Awesome! I still need to come up with a convenient solution to use that mast with my car.
Try lmr240. It works great. Fast and easy crimp connectors
Thanks, I'll have to try it out sometime.
Why would you not use guy ropes?
I got a SOTABEAM Tactical Mini but won't run coax up it because I'll be running a wire up it for a vertical for portable use with a tuner fed at the bottom. Or a dipole/doublet with guy ropes, the Mini came with some so why not use them?
G4GHB.
Simply put, I did not guy the masts because of time. Plus I don’t always use guys in the field. Some parks prohibit putting stakes in the ground. Most of the time I use a mast it’s either a bigger one in a dive-over mount or a lightweight one tied off with the rubber wire or with a single spike leaning in a tree. Ultimately, this video was to give viewers a sense of how the masts behave with an antenna at the top and different coax weights. In addition to guying, securing the coax to the mast is another way to mitigate the strain on the masts. Thanks for watching though. Hopefully the video and comments like this give viewers ideas about what’s right for them.
@@MikeN2MAK O.K., thanks.
Check out the DX Engineering Premier Telescoping Carbon Fiber Masts. I have the 33 foot one: DXE-TCFP-33.
It has adjustable quick release locks so I can put it up in about 2 minutes and taken down in less time.
Very sturdy, lightweight, and portable.
Thanks, I'll look into that! I've had the Spider Beams 12m mast on my mind recently too.
At $469 and $599 for the HD version, that’s out of mosts price range.
Get rid of the RG-58. it is lossy and isn't that light weight. 316 is even more lossy but it is light weight. Look at the loss tables. RG-8x or LMr240 is what you want as it has quite low loss. You can tape the coax to the mast so that not all the weight is applied at the top . Coiling the coax around the mast also helps.
I don’t use the RG58 much at all. It was just a cheap purchase from Amazon since it had BNC and I struggled at first doing my own RG316 cable assemblies. What I really want to try is the M&P Airborne 5. Good points and tips on taping or wrapping the coax, which is something I’ve done on occasion.
Hilarious innuendo.
My mind went to junior high.
Thanks, I tried to have fun. But I also hope others might find it helpful.
LOL. Thanks for watching!
Where's the Spiderbeam ? They're fibreglass and built like a tank.
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@NovemberOneOscarGrouch
2 hours ago
Oh, and if you don't get a comment from the owner of that SOTA beam then you can always send it my way ;-)
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Mike N2MAK
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I don’t have one…yet. The 12m Spiderbeam is definitely on my list.
Great job Mike 🎙 W1FYG
Thanks, Don!