@@mnemonix1315 the most popular MMOs have always been the most popular and had a robust community the only thing is they are old now people are waiting for something new whereas pve only MMOs always die off quickly so tf you on about?
Stream sniping should really start being treated as a "You knew the risks when you took the job" deal. It's no one else's responsibility to protect them except for them. Want to play Warzone, but stream sniping ruins your fun? Play it on your off time. It's very rare someone gets their perfect fantasy reflected in the real world. Deal with it like the rest of us. You're not special because you bought a Yeti at Bestbuy. To your point about the demonstration being buggy. How many games have shown curated videos? How good does it go when they have the typical launch issues? Showing a perfect situation while it's in Alpha sets the expectation that it will only get more and more stable and wonderful. Which immediately explodes when the servers crash on launch day.
As someone whos been stream sniped, its annoying, but there should be tools to help... tools.. not reworks lol I'll be interested to see how they deal with this. Also.. i have a yeti.. Games having bugs is always going to be a factor, but I guess it depends on how head on they deal with them. I would rather they be acknowledged and talked about then ignored. I just want to see them do a real live stream , in game, not scripted. The pvp caravan would of been the perfect opportunity. Like just do a ffa at the end to demonstrate it properly working.
Spot on about the streamer problem. The biggest problem with the streamer hype is that it spikes the population. Crashes the server, and then when they move back on to the next game the streamer plays. Imagine how bad it's going to be to be on Asmongold or Soda's server at launch? It's basically huge artificial swings the devs can't prepare for.
Well New World has this exact problem, especially when streamers announced which server they were going on, in advance. It's a strange balance to get right between the devs and the content creator space.
The alpha should launch with a gigantic message saying "this is an ALPHA TEST. Your experience is expected to SUCK. Deal with it." and add half a dozen confirmation pop-ups. "Yes, I realise this is only a test iteration." "I know this is a work in progress." "I am aware that I will encounter millions of bugs." "I agree to have a disappointing experience." "I understand that this is not representative of the final product."
It's probably controversial, but I think PvP MMOs aren't sustainable. Or at least under traditional MMO formats. PvP may be fun but it bleed players very quickly, whereas PvE content can achieve more stable results. New World didn't fall because it switched to PvE, it cushioned its fall thanks to PvE.
The MMO gaming fans just want a pretty decent online game with longevity, so many releases have crashed and burned, New world was such a hyped release, my friends and I were excited, within 48 hours we could see the flaws and issues and we left pretty quick, we worry the gaming industry see's this Genre as dead because players don't stay, but they leave due to lack of content, poor decisions or trash games. Simply bring out a decent mmo and make good coin, AoC looks promising but then so did the many others that died fast. It's sad but so many of us are playing mmo's still that were released 6-10+ yrs ago
I will say this about New World, they did a great job of generating hype and I really did enjoy the first week... but there was so much wrong with it that could of been sorted if it had delayed the release.
MMOs are a money sink and take way too long to develop and maintain. A great, big budget and new gen MMO is honestly a dead idea. It’s not profitable without PTW
@@Flosstradamuss wrong it is profitable but ptw is more profitable. Thats why it is important to be off the stock market and have a lead that selfishly wants a good game/his game. Chris roberts is a good example. He has fucked over the development of his game because he wants it exactly how he envisioned it. He is not driven by profit but by having HIS dream realized.
@@unityman3133 p2w is only more profitable short term. it drives off your main audience. if you keep the main players interested, ie not making the game for the p2w simps and whales, the game will do better long term. part of the problem is most large studios are driven by fast profit/returns to investors/etc
9:00 I play Pantheon Rise of the Fallen as a tester and in this day and age of early access games it is sometimes hard for me to remember that I am in a test environment and I need to treat it as such. I'm not there to play or grind levels (I mean that's part of it), I'm there to find bugs and pass that information on to the bug squashers. I think a lot of the "play testers" forget its a test environment, none of it is permanent or guaranteed.
I'm just going to say that concerning name plates they should only be visible to friends and current party in a PvX game. Because you don't want your name visible to somebody who's trying to kill you.
I'm waiting for the sequel - Ashes of Lactation - and it's follow-up - Ashes of Granuloma...I always play the last one first so I can hate it before it exists. Great video, your voice is fine...you sound like a dry napkin, and those are my favorite type.
The record holding game for most concurrent players in one instance is Eve online, 6000 players, with Heavy 10% time dilation (servers ran at 10% of realtime), Its also a good example of a successful PvX game, where the moment you log in, you consent to pvp. started at the same time as WoW. If AoC stays true to this PvP idea they might very well be successful.
Could not agree more with what you said here its bang on, i think expectations needs dropped, people need to chill and not get so but hurt when Ashes is criticised as long as there making valid points and alpha 2 will take at least two years, its gonna be a long process with shit loads of bugs and server issues, but that's a testing phase, and as for pve servers would never work.
Just to comment on the New World part with server issues. Yes, New World might be created by Amazon that also has AWS, but that doesn't mean the engineers working on New World are experts with AWS or anything. Also, we'd have to look at the engineers working on New World and their experience with networking for video games. Notes - Amazon hires L4 Software Development Engineers (SDEs), mostly through university Hire for new college grads. So, if a L4 SDE was working on the server code of New World they may have little to no prior experience doing something similar - SDEs at Amazon can basically transfer to any team. So, you could have more experienced SDEs on the New World team but they don't have much experience with networking for multiplayer games - Just because you work at Amazon doesn't mean you have a good understanding of how to use AWS for your application
The problem with the "I don't like fetch quest" opinion is that it expects multiplayer games to be able to do more than they can do. You will never be able to make everyone the hero of the story, so you can't have a world where you both feel like a part of the community around you, but at the same time no one has to do menial tasks. If you try that, you end up with a game that everyone plays to clear the main story for 3 months, and after that there's nothing interesting to do. Even if they keep adding to the main story, it'll still feel fake that everyone around you is going through the same epic, or even just emotionally captivating experience as you. The fun comes from the community writing its own stories, and players recognising other players for being there when they needed them, or performing excellently at something.
Both star citizen and helldivers are prime examples in server backend development that increase the functional server cap... it's my hope that we can one day get an mmo as big as all of tamriel, and a server cap of over 8k at least. Unless AoC try to roll out server que slots, of say 1-2k, then I feel the alpha keys are simply going to tank the game before it is fully released... that's before the actual hype drop down. There's an actual term for the graph demonstrating people hyping a thing well past what it is, and the sudden drop leading to underwhelming reactions; I remember some studio stating they didnt want their game over hyped for this reason, while I was still in high school.
What star citizen is trying to do is impressive, but at the same time, it still feels like instances on a server. Pax Dei has a similar setup with their world map. AOC has already come out and said that some dungeons and pvp events will be instanced, which means its not a true 8k people on a server. If they have the technology to have that many people, then great, i look forward to it...i just don't think its there yet. Fingers crossed though.
@@sawmanUK Agreed. The limiting factor is a little bit netcode, but a lot what a single server can produce in terms of computing power. Online games require too high of response time, so they can't use more than one physical server for one game server. Computers literally aren't built to work in tandem through an ethernet/fiber cable lol. They can and they do for lots of things, but online games just require too high response time. And the tech only exists to for so many processors to work in tandem on one board. I think there exists a 32 socket(cpu) server board, but there's a literal cap to how big game servers can be. At least for now. This is why Star Citizen devs are working on server meshing where essentially one game world is broken up into cubes which are technically all different servers, but can communicate with each other when something crosses over from one to the other. It's not fully working right now, but they've made huge strides and have it partially working. It's honestly super impressive.
Never seen a mmorpg properly balance pve & pvp, always end up heavily catering to pve in the end with the pvp content barely making up 10% of the actual games. I believe its possible most people stop pvp because the balance is non existent & the little content we get feel like old scraps compared to the rest of the games. Think more people would enjoy pvp if done correctly & maintained.
How am I supposed to enjoy a zerg fest? They suck when I'm on the majority side and on the minority side, there's no more tension, you *know* which side is going to win. If there's no meaningful anti-zerg mechanics, then why should I bother with pvp?
There is absolutely no problem with having a game PVE, PVP, or mixed...as long as you're upfront about that focus and are willing to accept what comes with each type of gameplay. THAT'S the rub. PVP will draw a type of player base as will the other focuses. Streamers will absolutely get griefed and wrecked...which will attract some people, and turn others off. The very clear example of "make your bed and lie in it". Making a PVE server for a PVX game specifically to provide a safe environment for streamers is an indictment against your play system design.
This entire drama around an alpha test just proves how starved mmo fans are for an actually good game. One with meaning that can be your forever game because it is meaningful and deserves it, and not because you compromise and just settle for whatever isn't even close to what you wish it was.
Experience has shown that the proportion of PVP players has always been significantly lower than the proportion of PVE players over the years. Josh Strife Hayes, among others, has been able to prove this accordingly. PVP is not casual gaming and casual gaming is what makes money. And even the most altruistic development team needs money if it wants to be able to develop content tomorrow. If the PVx spark doesn't ignite and both sides don't complement each other in such a way that you can feed off the content in the long term, you will basically develop something that will end up in the garbage can in the medium term or never come out of beta. The PVE players will jump ship and the PVP players will have their island of bliss, but will starve there. It wouldn't be the first game to end like this. And it surely won't be the last.
Their concept of consensual pvp is great imo. I hope they go through woth the corruption system that has severe punishment for griefing or killing open world players that don't want to pvp. I remember playing darkfall, and new player town's used to have powerful players almost permanently camping to grief new players who join...of course your games dead if you do nothing about that
In almost every MMO, there’s one type of quest that is notoriously HATED by communities… escort quests. Ironically, AoC decided to design their peak PvP content around, you guessed it, ESCORT QUESTS. That shit is just hilarious to me.
Why should any game cater to streamer situations? Streaming is optional, you wanna stream and make some bucks you are at risk of stream sniping. Nothing should be catered to that issue…
So alpha 2: If we look back at Alpha 1 there are a few things that we can extrapolate. At the start of Alpha 1 pvp was disabled, then after some time it was enabled for events and only the last 2 days (of a month of testing) it was fully enabled. What does this suggest for alpha 2? This suggests that for each itteration there probably will be a defined time to test out the pve only implementations, a time for mixed testing with (castle/node/caravan) sieges, arena's and battlegrounds and a full on pvp mode. New update for new stuff implemented, rinse and repeat. The duration of these subparts will be shortened or lengthened based on feedback, and / or desired testing data. While alpha 2 is an important marketing tool, its main purpose is testing. If you compare this to BG3's early access this is similar. BG3's first itteration in early access plays quite different then its initial full release, however the marketing of it was a lot easier due to players having seen early access footage. Most important of that interaction, wich is what Larian studios was really good at, is showcasing that they are listening to feedback and improving upon it.
Problem with most viewers and content creators is that the've never worked in game development. Game development often works with white, yellow and red phased assets. Where white phased are basicly white mannequin dolls, to be able to trigger what your testing. Yellow is with some features but not all complete and red is feature complete. Most of showcasing will be in yellow phase, so while it is true that the character development is complete, there is no reason (yet) to upgrade the character models to that red phase. Afterall (wich we have seen with the nakua orcs and vaelune) there is still changes to be made after feedback of the character models. Then comes in another "problem" while it is possible that the've updated character models to be red phased in preparation to alpha 2, you have to remember that developers are not gamers. While testing stuff in game, they are on the clock, with a lot of other stuff to be done. They simply don't have the time to redo their testing characters for the new updeated models.
I hope it releases, it sounds like a fantastic game, but I'll remain skeptical until it does. When it has a beta I'll begin to take interest. Good video sawman
Ya I am gonna hold it to the expectation of a full release when it's been in development for almost as long as star citizen. Ask me how many craps I give about the engine swap and the multiple development resets as though it makes a difference at this point.
I like this take. Maybe we can give big streamers NPC status, and they are “gold” (not green) and they can only be attacked if they initiate. Only 10 people per server can have that status. IDK, just thinking out loud.
Streamers should be like every other player.. big streamers are already gonna have their hordes of mindless morons to do their bidding, be mayors and have their coveted flying mounts. They're going to have perks that normal players wont have, and likely make the game less fun or competitive for players on their servers, so they can deal with being targeted. Don't like it? Don't stream during PvP events or when you're talking with your guild about your strategy for the upcoming war. But they should absolutely have to deal with PvP and the consequences of it, just as everyone else will.
I think streamers generally ruin games, though we still crave watching them. It's an imperfect system. I don't think games should be in any way, tailored for streamers.
Pretending that New World's demise was because of its shift towards a more PvE focused environment instead of its many, MANY shortcomings is honestly wild, but you do you.
Got an Eso flashbash from this 😅 remember when it first came out, advertising the grand 200+ player epic Cyrodil battles. Then just lioe almost every other game, they forget about their pvp player base and focus solely on pve whales. Pvp is the passion, pve is the money
I'm still not sold of the node thing. It can quickly devolve into few big, never contested areas where most of players hang around or single faction that control more territory snowballs into not having any opponent anymore. Of course ignoring balancing nightmare of planned 36 classes, while other titles struggling balancing pvp having just 6-7.
10:15, the only MMO that I know of that can have 8k+ players all in one area fighting is Eve Online, but I say that with a massive caveat. In order to pervent the servers from melting the server deploys TiDi, Time Dialation. The game literally becomes a picture book. I'm talking 2 frames per second with 20 second input lag...
Some good points here but one thing id say is them showing the bugs isnt a problem, if anything its a more honest take in this day and age. All in all ill wait till full release to see how aoc turns out as a full product
Thank you for the video. I agree with all that you said. My major issue with AoC is that it is set up to be (by their audience) as a WoW clone, as it would have to be WoW 2. I feel that now Intrepid is too afraid to innovate. And personally I think that the classes (as they are now) are really bad, and also the mana system is terrible.
I couldn't agree more with Jimmy's fetch quest take... In the first MMO I played back in 2006, RagnarokOnline, there originally were no quests. You simply had a world with monsters that dropped certain items and some npc to trade with. You didn't level by following a pre-planned story or path through the world. You could adventure off to a high level area at low level and develop some cheeky strategy with friends to kill things way stronger than you (and it be worth it), or you could mindlessly grind low level mobs for levels. The developers didn't tell you how to play. I want to see that again in MMO's.
TBH, for the last couple of years, I even forgot this game existed. I believe it will be in development for another 10 years, and finally disappear, but it will never be released. They are making their life's work, making it, not releasing it.
Ive searched a long time trying to find a good sandbox MMO RPG. I'm excited to try Mortal Online 2 and im curious to see what ashes of creation has to offer
Great video mate. At this rate 1.0 will be at least 5 years away. As I said to a mate, I could be dead by the time it's released. I'll just continue to play games that actually exist.
I think the timing for this video would have been better once A-2 started. With that said, there's a lot of skepticism with this game and rightfully so. I see it going either way at this point.
I'm just waiting to see that mage in the AoC video get interrupted. Getting a swarm of pitchforks flung at him, and he's just chugging away uninterrupted. I assume that they just haven't worked on interrupted mechanics yet.
So there will be open world PVP, but it wont be a wild wild west, because people will be working with other nodes (towns) and the corruption system should keep random ganking to a low. Gear will only drop if you are corrupted from what I understand (as in you are the ganker) but thats just a chance for it to drop.
@@sawmanUK i don't like pvp thats why i was asking in a gear drop idea i have either spent to much money on it or have spent months getting it to a point it starts to be helpful
@@keithrees4755 If you play the game normally, you dont have to worry about gear drop, the only thing that could happen is someone nabs some resources of you if you are farming and get attacked. But with the way the node systems work and the social dynamics of the game, you will be safe for the most part. The rarer resources might be in areas that require some fighting, but thats part of the dynamics of the game.
@@sawmanUK i guess there is only one way to find out how bad it will get about trying to get stuff to build stuff with thing is there are persons in the world that go so low they won't let anyone get anything all in the name to get total control of the game i hope devs have enough sense not to allow that because when that happens thats when a game dies
Creating PVE servers isnt a problem. That gives a player agency. They can pick which server type they like, and in a PvE server, they have more choice on when the PvP happens. It only negatively affects PvPers. Those servers tend to die first because they dont get to grief the boys out there picking flowers.
The kill 20 goblins quest is a fucking boring quest, but if I go to a town board is select 20 different fetch quests and have them pinned like tasks to do before I end my adventure, I find it not so bad, it just shouldn’t be called a Quest, call it a task, Favor, Job, Chore, whatever, I hate it being called a Quest because a Quest is supposed to be like an adventure which isn’t as simple as fetch this, I loved doing the board tasks in New World because I can just accept as many of them and complete them all within one run, which by the end of the run within a region, I would have gotten Gold and a bunch of resources and would hit some other pre requisite goals I was aiming to achieve while doing those fetch quests. AOC has to tread a fine line between linear stories that don’t fit the sandbox feel they wanna create, and having little to no story within their quests, Because with how modular the Node system is, it might be hard to make hand curated content like an over-world dungeon, and quest related areas, it might look jarring that some areas don’t change with Nodes because it’s a quest related area, or maybe that’s a tradeoff that isn’t so bad, idk, what Im trying to get at is that I hope that they don’t struggle with designing fun and engaging quests, that have story, and gameplay in mind, without being bottlenecked by the systems they’ve created.
The biggest problem with AoC is that it has taken too long to release. Why should I wait for a game that can possibly disappoint me when World of Warcraft has 1000's of hours of content available RIGHT NOW? That's why I got off the AoC train fast.
Time Stamp 6:00; Yes, the PVE players try to build up the areas of the world while the PVP players quickly tear down those same areas of the world ( i.e.. change the world).
If the design of the game is to be PvP only, then keep it PvP only. If I, as a player that generally prefers PvE, decide to play AoC then I have to accept that there are no safe places. The only thing I would want is to disallow corpse and spawn camping. That's it. If I want to play a PvP game then I have accepted the PvP concept/aspect of the game. I will have to learn how to PvP like I would have to learn the mechanics of any new game I choose to play. Keep AoC PvP only!!
Been saying this for years I don't have anything against AoC it's just it's been close to a decade since it was announced MMO or not that's way too long for a game to be announced and still be in development they're not even in beta yet at this point I fully expect some rouge devs to come out and say "yeah this game isn't going to be finished"
It’s been a while for sure - but they made a commitment to do open development and have stuck with that ever since inception. AoC was announced when they had like 17 employees and from then on have kept their promise of open dev. That’s just not something other game studios have done or are doing outside of SC and Ghost to my knowledge. It has its pros and cons, pros being player feedback to help you, cons being people complain about dev time when it’s really not any different than most other mmorpg dev times
Time will tell, but I think the idea of pvp focused MMO has problems. I like pvp and in all the mmos have played it became what I spent the most time on, but I don't like when pvp and pve mix. When I pve I don't want to worry about the next ganker targeting me and I think i am not alone. In every title I played mixed zones tended to be deserted. I think it is easy in abstract to think that you want pvx but once the reality hits people seem to give it up rather quickly. I will give the game a go when it comes out, but past experience has taught me something.... never play a new MMO at launch
Some of those problems, even if valid are pretty minor. AoC does not need to be that revolutionary, just successfully fill a niche. Lets not forget it is targeted at older people who like old school MMOs. What we want is solid implementation and trust that the developers will stick to their fundamental goals, like no P2Win. Given that the game is already fully funded and the devs are gaming fans themselves gives me hope. I have seen no signs yet that things are going wrong on that department. The reason people are losing their minds is that AoC represents that whole philosophy around MMOs that has all but vanished. A lot is really riding on this project doing well. Whatever your opinion may be about (classic) WoW and OSRS, it's obvious this formula appeals to so many people and sad that 20 years later we can't find something better because the genre has gone to shit.
Hey man, just a thing, Amazon owns the hardware, not the netcode. It's like saying "I bought this expensive PC, thus I bought FPS skills". No, that does not work like that. Amazon owns just the hardware, if the netcode is done badly - which is done badly, the people that work on those studios like Amazon are trash - then you get login queues. Usually cause they do not even give a shit about login servers - those are different servers than the player servers. Also, most games using instancing or "layering". Same way ESO has megaservers. Ashes is probably running one part of the world in a different server than the rest and use seamless loading over seas to make it look as if there is no loading, similar to what WoW did back in the days before layering, each zone was its own "instnace" but you would never notice loading times, cause the world was streamed in the background instead of a huge loading screen. Of course, going between CONTINENTS demanded a loading screen due to technical limitations.
I'm an avg player decades in all of them idc about stream snipping lol i dished out 375 usd to jump on the AOC Alpha 2 bandwagon as long as i can play for 6 months then i got my moneys worth 🤣🤣
Does this guy like any mmos? XD… also you can hope all you want, but the developer will, most definitely, change the game in a number of ways to attract bigger audiences. The pvp especially, I like pvp, I don’t mind if it’s always on, but I can also admit to the fact that it’s not a popular mechanic for casual players, and casual players are a very large part of the mmo fan base…
@@sawmanUK AoC is a much smaller game in scope so I don't think it'll be as rough as SC but they still clearly have a lot to do and most importantly, are gonna get hit just like SC and pax dei did... With people not liking stuff and needing to make big changes.
I can explain why I like wow over other MMO's. It is the different intensities of challenge. Raiding can be high intensity, high communication. Pug raids can be medium intensity. Soloing can be low intensity where I can watch a show while gathering things for my raid. Heck, it can be even ultra rare intensity. I once spent a couple days reading while fishing up the turtle mount. People in guild were impressed by it. I had not impressed anyone with my ability to sit on my ass and read since 5th grade. When I hear "full pvp mmo" I immediately lose interest. A full PVP game is one where I will never be able to watch a documentary while grinding.
Those 'content creators' who want PVE are in the wrong game. If they can't understand/want or appreciate what the vision is they shouldn't be even commenting on the game.
Thanks for watching, like if you want to see more AOC content from myself...
You gotta prep the algorithm for more videos when the whole thing....burns to ashes ;)
@@oldmanbanjo Might talk about how the grass isnt green enough
no pvp game will ever have a too popular problem XD and AOC was inspired by arch age. js.
which will clome out first, Ashes or TES6?
@@mnemonix1315 the most popular MMOs have always been the most popular and had a robust community the only thing is they are old now people are waiting for something new whereas pve only MMOs always die off quickly so tf you on about?
Stream sniping should really start being treated as a "You knew the risks when you took the job" deal. It's no one else's responsibility to protect them except for them. Want to play Warzone, but stream sniping ruins your fun? Play it on your off time. It's very rare someone gets their perfect fantasy reflected in the real world. Deal with it like the rest of us. You're not special because you bought a Yeti at Bestbuy.
To your point about the demonstration being buggy. How many games have shown curated videos? How good does it go when they have the typical launch issues? Showing a perfect situation while it's in Alpha sets the expectation that it will only get more and more stable and wonderful. Which immediately explodes when the servers crash on launch day.
As someone whos been stream sniped, its annoying, but there should be tools to help... tools.. not reworks lol I'll be interested to see how they deal with this. Also.. i have a yeti..
Games having bugs is always going to be a factor, but I guess it depends on how head on they deal with them. I would rather they be acknowledged and talked about then ignored. I just want to see them do a real live stream , in game, not scripted. The pvp caravan would of been the perfect opportunity. Like just do a ffa at the end to demonstrate it properly working.
Exactly. Don't publicize your exploits if you don't want it to be taken advantage of.
Spot on about the streamer problem. The biggest problem with the streamer hype is that it spikes the population. Crashes the server, and then when they move back on to the next game the streamer plays. Imagine how bad it's going to be to be on Asmongold or Soda's server at launch? It's basically huge artificial swings the devs can't prepare for.
Well New World has this exact problem, especially when streamers announced which server they were going on, in advance. It's a strange balance to get right between the devs and the content creator space.
@@sawmanUK Yeah, and then take that and apply to the PvEX stuff in AoC. Omg it's going to be hell on earth. The ASMON swarm will devour the earth.
yyeap. What ever happen to games growing it's playerbase organically.
The problem with streamers is there selfish greed, only thinking how the game mechanics will affect the games streamability.
Tell me you didn’t pay attention without paying attention lol they already addressed this problem.
The alpha should launch with a gigantic message saying "this is an ALPHA TEST. Your experience is expected to SUCK. Deal with it." and add half a dozen confirmation pop-ups. "Yes, I realise this is only a test iteration." "I know this is a work in progress." "I am aware that I will encounter millions of bugs." "I agree to have a disappointing experience." "I understand that this is not representative of the final product."
It's probably controversial, but I think PvP MMOs aren't sustainable. Or at least under traditional MMO formats.
PvP may be fun but it bleed players very quickly, whereas PvE content can achieve more stable results.
New World didn't fall because it switched to PvE, it cushioned its fall thanks to PvE.
$250 for an alpha 2 key? With anywhere from 100-200k sold?
Jesus. Get ready for alpha 3, 4, 5 before release.
Thats insane.
6:40 Sawman paid me to say this. Or used AI. Or forced me to. PK him on sight please.
Niece gaming exposed again
Exposed/ he can't keep getting away with it
The MMO gaming fans just want a pretty decent online game with longevity, so many releases have crashed and burned, New world was such a hyped release, my friends and I were excited, within 48 hours we could see the flaws and issues and we left pretty quick, we worry the gaming industry see's this Genre as dead because players don't stay, but they leave due to lack of content, poor decisions or trash games. Simply bring out a decent mmo and make good coin, AoC looks promising but then so did the many others that died fast. It's sad but so many of us are playing mmo's still that were released 6-10+ yrs ago
I will say this about New World, they did a great job of generating hype and I really did enjoy the first week... but there was so much wrong with it that could of been sorted if it had delayed the release.
MMOs are a money sink and take way too long to develop and maintain. A great, big budget and new gen MMO is honestly a dead idea. It’s not profitable without PTW
@@Flosstradamuss wrong it is profitable but ptw is more profitable. Thats why it is important to be off the stock market and have a lead that selfishly wants a good game/his game. Chris roberts is a good example. He has fucked over the development of his game because he wants it exactly how he envisioned it. He is not driven by profit but by having HIS dream realized.
@@unityman3133 p2w is only more profitable short term. it drives off your main audience. if you keep the main players interested, ie not making the game for the p2w simps and whales, the game will do better long term. part of the problem is most large studios are driven by fast profit/returns to investors/etc
The Star Citizen mention seems more prophetic the more I think about it.
9:00 I play Pantheon Rise of the Fallen as a tester and in this day and age of early access games it is sometimes hard for me to remember that I am in a test environment and I need to treat it as such. I'm not there to play or grind levels (I mean that's part of it), I'm there to find bugs and pass that information on to the bug squashers. I think a lot of the "play testers" forget its a test environment, none of it is permanent or guaranteed.
I'm just going to say that concerning name plates they should only be visible to friends and current party in a PvX game. Because you don't want your name visible to somebody who's trying to kill you.
I'm waiting for the sequel - Ashes of Lactation - and it's follow-up - Ashes of Granuloma...I always play the last one first so I can hate it before it exists. Great video, your voice is fine...you sound like a dry napkin, and those are my favorite type.
The record holding game for most concurrent players in one instance is Eve online, 6000 players, with Heavy 10% time dilation (servers ran at 10% of realtime), Its also a good example of a successful PvX game, where the moment you log in, you consent to pvp. started at the same time as WoW. If AoC stays true to this PvP idea they might very well be successful.
This video is Oustanding.
The Narc morphing into Asmon bit was Gold.
British content creators 🤝 Being a brand risk
😹😹😹😹😹😹😹
narc on streams in a complete degenarate toxic
Could not agree more with what you said here its bang on, i think expectations needs dropped, people need to chill and not get so but hurt when Ashes is criticised as long as there making valid points and alpha 2 will take at least two years, its gonna be a long process with shit loads of bugs and server issues, but that's a testing phase, and as for pve servers would never work.
Even Arthur, King of the Britons, had to do fetch quests: shrubbery
King of the who?
Just to comment on the New World part with server issues.
Yes, New World might be created by Amazon that also has AWS, but that doesn't mean the engineers working on New World are experts with AWS or anything. Also, we'd have to look at the engineers working on New World and their experience with networking for video games.
Notes
- Amazon hires L4 Software Development Engineers (SDEs), mostly through university Hire for new college grads. So, if a L4 SDE was working on the server code of New World they may have little to no prior experience doing something similar
- SDEs at Amazon can basically transfer to any team. So, you could have more experienced SDEs on the New World team but they don't have much experience with networking for multiplayer games
- Just because you work at Amazon doesn't mean you have a good understanding of how to use AWS for your application
Dark and darker devs need to see this. Especialy the section about changing the game away from PVP for loud pve players
The problem with the "I don't like fetch quest" opinion is that it expects multiplayer games to be able to do more than they can do. You will never be able to make everyone the hero of the story, so you can't have a world where you both feel like a part of the community around you, but at the same time no one has to do menial tasks. If you try that, you end up with a game that everyone plays to clear the main story for 3 months, and after that there's nothing interesting to do. Even if they keep adding to the main story, it'll still feel fake that everyone around you is going through the same epic, or even just emotionally captivating experience as you.
The fun comes from the community writing its own stories, and players recognising other players for being there when they needed them, or performing excellently at something.
Both star citizen and helldivers are prime examples in server backend development that increase the functional server cap... it's my hope that we can one day get an mmo as big as all of tamriel, and a server cap of over 8k at least.
Unless AoC try to roll out server que slots, of say 1-2k, then I feel the alpha keys are simply going to tank the game before it is fully released... that's before the actual hype drop down. There's an actual term for the graph demonstrating people hyping a thing well past what it is, and the sudden drop leading to underwhelming reactions; I remember some studio stating they didnt want their game over hyped for this reason, while I was still in high school.
Perfect examples...a barely playable scam and a 4 player coop :D
What star citizen is trying to do is impressive, but at the same time, it still feels like instances on a server. Pax Dei has a similar setup with their world map. AOC has already come out and said that some dungeons and pvp events will be instanced, which means its not a true 8k people on a server. If they have the technology to have that many people, then great, i look forward to it...i just don't think its there yet. Fingers crossed though.
@@sawmanUK Agreed. The limiting factor is a little bit netcode, but a lot what a single server can produce in terms of computing power.
Online games require too high of response time, so they can't use more than one physical server for one game server. Computers literally aren't built to work in tandem through an ethernet/fiber cable lol. They can and they do for lots of things, but online games just require too high response time.
And the tech only exists to for so many processors to work in tandem on one board. I think there exists a 32 socket(cpu) server board, but there's a literal cap to how big game servers can be. At least for now.
This is why Star Citizen devs are working on server meshing where essentially one game world is broken up into cubes which are technically all different servers, but can communicate with each other when something crosses over from one to the other. It's not fully working right now, but they've made huge strides and have it partially working. It's honestly super impressive.
It'll be the players who kill this game, just like they killed Archeage.
Never seen a mmorpg properly balance pve & pvp, always end up heavily catering to pve in the end with the pvp content barely making up 10% of the actual games. I believe its possible most people stop pvp because the balance is non existent & the little content we get feel like old scraps compared to the rest of the games. Think more people would enjoy pvp if done correctly & maintained.
100% this.
How am I supposed to enjoy a zerg fest? They suck when I'm on the majority side and on the minority side, there's no more tension, you *know* which side is going to win. If there's no meaningful anti-zerg mechanics, then why should I bother with pvp?
Have you tried mortal online part 2?
I feel personally attacked by the old lady with the walker. But I'm not a boomer. I'm gen x. And it was 37 hot keys 🤣
There is absolutely no problem with having a game PVE, PVP, or mixed...as long as you're upfront about that focus and are willing to accept what comes with each type of gameplay. THAT'S the rub. PVP will draw a type of player base as will the other focuses. Streamers will absolutely get griefed and wrecked...which will attract some people, and turn others off. The very clear example of "make your bed and lie in it".
Making a PVE server for a PVX game specifically to provide a safe environment for streamers is an indictment against your play system design.
Ashes of Copium
Great video :) I agree some people will expect a full game experience at alpha 2 launch. And will give negative feedback when it’s not :(
This entire drama around an alpha test just proves how starved mmo fans are for an actually good game. One with meaning that can be your forever game because it is meaningful and deserves it, and not because you compromise and just settle for whatever isn't even close to what you wish it was.
Wow really good points and video! Subscribed!
Experience has shown that the proportion of PVP players has always been significantly lower than the proportion of PVE players over the years. Josh Strife Hayes, among others, has been able to prove this accordingly. PVP is not casual gaming and casual gaming is what makes money. And even the most altruistic development team needs money if it wants to be able to develop content tomorrow.
If the PVx spark doesn't ignite and both sides don't complement each other in such a way that you can feed off the content in the long term, you will basically develop something that will end up in the garbage can in the medium term or never come out of beta. The PVE players will jump ship and the PVP players will have their island of bliss, but will starve there. It wouldn't be the first game to end like this. And it surely won't be the last.
Their concept of consensual pvp is great imo. I hope they go through woth the corruption system that has severe punishment for griefing or killing open world players that don't want to pvp.
I remember playing darkfall, and new player town's used to have powerful players almost permanently camping to grief new players who join...of course your games dead if you do nothing about that
@@Robert21211 Haven't seen anyone mention Darkfall in forever. Fun times.
In almost every MMO, there’s one type of quest that is notoriously HATED by communities… escort quests. Ironically, AoC decided to design their peak PvP content around, you guessed it, ESCORT QUESTS. That shit is just hilarious to me.
inorite, when the guys here were all over it in excitement I'm kike ugh no I have doing that...
I look at it as an open ended Payload event , not so much an escort (I get it is, but it's a little diff)
@@Idiotboxxx come on, its escorting.
Actually I think their plan is great. Alpha 2 will steady the hype to realistic expectations by the time launch hits.
Why should any game cater to streamer situations? Streaming is optional, you wanna stream and make some bucks you are at risk of stream sniping. Nothing should be catered to that issue…
So alpha 2: If we look back at Alpha 1 there are a few things that we can extrapolate. At the start of Alpha 1 pvp was disabled, then after some time it was enabled for events and only the last 2 days (of a month of testing) it was fully enabled.
What does this suggest for alpha 2? This suggests that for each itteration there probably will be a defined time to test out the pve only implementations, a time for mixed testing with (castle/node/caravan) sieges, arena's and battlegrounds and a full on pvp mode.
New update for new stuff implemented, rinse and repeat. The duration of these subparts will be shortened or lengthened based on feedback, and / or desired testing data.
While alpha 2 is an important marketing tool, its main purpose is testing. If you compare this to BG3's early access this is similar. BG3's first itteration in early access plays quite different then its initial full release, however the marketing of it was a lot easier due to players having seen early access footage.
Most important of that interaction, wich is what Larian studios was really good at, is showcasing that they are listening to feedback and improving upon it.
This game is as real as my love life.
Adrian
Nonexistent? Lmao.
@@SetariM thats the joke. sigh.
Problem with most viewers and content creators is that the've never worked in game development.
Game development often works with white, yellow and red phased assets. Where white phased are basicly white mannequin dolls, to be able to trigger what your testing. Yellow is with some features but not all complete and red is feature complete.
Most of showcasing will be in yellow phase, so while it is true that the character development is complete, there is no reason (yet) to upgrade the character models to that red phase. Afterall (wich we have seen with the nakua orcs and vaelune) there is still changes to be made after feedback of the character models.
Then comes in another "problem" while it is possible that the've updated character models to be red phased in preparation to alpha 2, you have to remember that developers are not gamers. While testing stuff in game, they are on the clock, with a lot of other stuff to be done. They simply don't have the time to redo their testing characters for the new updeated models.
this guys should be happy that they can even test the game publicly and that the devs are listening to them, be happy that is not an EA game
I hope it releases, it sounds like a fantastic game, but I'll remain skeptical until it does. When it has a beta I'll begin to take interest. Good video sawman
I have a job and kids to worry about, so I'll start paying more attention when a release date is announced
Ya I am gonna hold it to the expectation of a full release when it's been in development for almost as long as star citizen. Ask me how many craps I give about the engine swap and the multiple development resets as though it makes a difference at this point.
I like this take. Maybe we can give big streamers NPC status, and they are “gold” (not green) and they can only be attacked if they initiate. Only 10 people per server can have that status. IDK, just thinking out loud.
Streamers should be like every other player.. big streamers are already gonna have their hordes of mindless morons to do their bidding, be mayors and have their coveted flying mounts. They're going to have perks that normal players wont have, and likely make the game less fun or competitive for players on their servers, so they can deal with being targeted. Don't like it? Don't stream during PvP events or when you're talking with your guild about your strategy for the upcoming war. But they should absolutely have to deal with PvP and the consequences of it, just as everyone else will.
I think streamers generally ruin games, though we still crave watching them. It's an imperfect system. I don't think games should be in any way, tailored for streamers.
Based video except for the New World bit, them switching to pve was the best choice they ever made tbh
Ashes of Creation is THE BIGGEST mmorpg cope i have EVER seen EVER.
Wildstar had infinitely more potential than this, and it closed
Pretending that New World's demise was because of its shift towards a more PvE focused environment instead of its many, MANY shortcomings is honestly wild, but you do you.
Pretending ? Ah yes …. I pretend , you caught me in my lie , well done 👍
Got an Eso flashbash from this 😅 remember when it first came out, advertising the grand 200+ player epic Cyrodil battles. Then just lioe almost every other game, they forget about their pvp player base and focus solely on pve whales. Pvp is the passion, pve is the money
I'm still not sold of the node thing. It can quickly devolve into few big, never contested areas where most of players hang around or single faction that control more territory snowballs into not having any opponent anymore. Of course ignoring balancing nightmare of planned 36 classes, while other titles struggling balancing pvp having just 6-7.
10:15, the only MMO that I know of that can have 8k+ players all in one area fighting is Eve Online, but I say that with a massive caveat.
In order to pervent the servers from melting the server deploys TiDi, Time Dialation. The game literally becomes a picture book. I'm talking 2 frames per second with 20 second input lag...
Some good points here but one thing id say is them showing the bugs isnt a problem, if anything its a more honest take in this day and age. All in all ill wait till full release to see how aoc turns out as a full product
Thank you for the video. I agree with all that you said. My major issue with AoC is that it is set up to be (by their audience) as a WoW clone, as it would have to be WoW 2. I feel that now Intrepid is too afraid to innovate. And personally I think that the classes (as they are now) are really bad, and also the mana system is terrible.
We need more games that build on the concepts of Final Fantasy 11 and modernize it.
Damn man. I remember when you had like 3k subs. Glad to see the steady growth. Your content has evolved alot since ESO. Hope your doing well.
What's the song at the end of the video?
Its called I Lied, but I cant find the original place i got it from, it was a cover of a meme from timmmmmeeee ago.
th-cam.com/video/U0x6veJiyRA/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=EcstasyLyrics
th-cam.com/video/U0x6veJiyRA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sYtIjo6VJNXBN2HN
th-cam.com/video/U0x6veJiyRA/w-d-xo.html
I see sawman, I click watch and Like 👍
It’s all I ask for 🥹❤️
And enjoy the sarcastic jokes 😂 (e.g. The biggest AoC content creator.....roflmao TWICE!!! )
Guilty also
I couldn't agree more with Jimmy's fetch quest take... In the first MMO I played back in 2006, RagnarokOnline, there originally were no quests. You simply had a world with monsters that dropped certain items and some npc to trade with. You didn't level by following a pre-planned story or path through the world. You could adventure off to a high level area at low level and develop some cheeky strategy with friends to kill things way stronger than you (and it be worth it), or you could mindlessly grind low level mobs for levels. The developers didn't tell you how to play. I want to see that again in MMO's.
Love your editing man! Got me laughing so much. Subscribed because of it. Keep it up 😂
TBH, for the last couple of years, I even forgot this game existed.
I believe it will be in development for another 10 years, and finally disappear, but it will never be released.
They are making their life's work, making it, not releasing it.
Ive searched a long time trying to find a good sandbox MMO RPG. I'm excited to try Mortal Online 2 and im curious to see what ashes of creation has to offer
Great video mate. At this rate 1.0 will be at least 5 years away. As I said to a mate, I could be dead by the time it's released. I'll just continue to play games that actually exist.
what song was that at 10:45??
edit: found it with addons: Verbatim by Mother Mother
AOC's biggest problem though is the game is never going to release 💀
I think the timing for this video would have been better once A-2 started. With that said, there's a lot of skepticism with this game and rightfully so. I see it going either way at this point.
I'm just waiting to see that mage in the AoC video get interrupted. Getting a swarm of pitchforks flung at him, and he's just chugging away uninterrupted. I assume that they just haven't worked on interrupted mechanics yet.
these are all accurate problems with AOC, 100%. agree
straight facts in this one
@sawmanUK do you know if they will have open world pvp and if so is there a chance my gear will drop?
So there will be open world PVP, but it wont be a wild wild west, because people will be working with other nodes (towns) and the corruption system should keep random ganking to a low. Gear will only drop if you are corrupted from what I understand (as in you are the ganker) but thats just a chance for it to drop.
@@sawmanUK i don't like pvp thats why i was asking in a gear drop idea i have either spent to much money on it or have spent months getting it to a point it starts to be helpful
@@keithrees4755 If you play the game normally, you dont have to worry about gear drop, the only thing that could happen is someone nabs some resources of you if you are farming and get attacked. But with the way the node systems work and the social dynamics of the game, you will be safe for the most part. The rarer resources might be in areas that require some fighting, but thats part of the dynamics of the game.
@@sawmanUK i guess there is only one way to find out how bad it will get about trying to get stuff to build stuff with thing is there are persons in the world that go so low they won't let anyone get anything all in the name to get total control of the game
i hope devs have enough sense not to allow that because when that happens thats when a game dies
Everyone else knew it was dead years ago. Great meme content though! Keep it up champ.
Creating PVE servers isnt a problem. That gives a player agency. They can pick which server type they like, and in a PvE server, they have more choice on when the PvP happens. It only negatively affects PvPers. Those servers tend to die first because they dont get to grief the boys out there picking flowers.
Military nodes should have more pvp while economic nodes should have more pve and protection from pvp. The pen is mightier than the sword?
The kill 20 goblins quest is a fucking boring quest, but if I go to a town board is select 20 different fetch quests and have them pinned like tasks to do before I end my adventure, I find it not so bad, it just shouldn’t be called a Quest, call it a task, Favor, Job, Chore, whatever, I hate it being called a Quest because a Quest is supposed to be like an adventure which isn’t as simple as fetch this, I loved doing the board tasks in New World because I can just accept as many of them and complete them all within one run, which by the end of the run within a region, I would have gotten Gold and a bunch of resources and would hit some other pre requisite goals I was aiming to achieve while doing those fetch quests.
AOC has to tread a fine line between linear stories that don’t fit the sandbox feel they wanna create, and having little to no story within their quests, Because with how modular the Node system is, it might be hard to make hand curated content like an over-world dungeon, and quest related areas, it might look jarring that some areas don’t change with Nodes because it’s a quest related area, or maybe that’s a tradeoff that isn’t so bad, idk, what Im trying to get at is that I hope that they don’t struggle with designing fun and engaging quests, that have story, and gameplay in mind, without being bottlenecked by the systems they’ve created.
The biggest problem with AoC is that it has taken too long to release. Why should I wait for a game that can possibly disappoint me when World of Warcraft has 1000's of hours of content available RIGHT NOW? That's why I got off the AoC train fast.
Feel like a j1mmy collab would be pog
One day I might become relevant enough to... one day
Time Stamp 6:00; Yes, the PVE players try to build up the areas of the world while the PVP players quickly tear down those same areas of the world ( i.e.. change the world).
They build areas in different ways
It will release I have no doubt it will just take a while but everything will speed up after alpha 2
If the design of the game is to be PvP only, then keep it PvP only. If I, as a player that generally prefers PvE, decide to play AoC then I have to accept that there are no safe places. The only thing I would want is to disallow corpse and spawn camping. That's it. If I want to play a PvP game then I have accepted the PvP concept/aspect of the game. I will have to learn how to PvP like I would have to learn the mechanics of any new game I choose to play.
Keep AoC PvP only!!
Idk its got a good team behind it and it looks fun. Good enough for me
Dont worry I got told to unalive myself for predicting bless unleashed second death. BDO is on the way to the forever box as we speak LOL
Been saying this for years I don't have anything against AoC it's just it's been close to a decade since it was announced MMO or not that's way too long for a game to be announced and still be in development they're not even in beta yet at this point I fully expect some rouge devs to come out and say "yeah this game isn't going to be finished"
It’s been a while for sure - but they made a commitment to do open development and have stuck with that ever since inception. AoC was announced when they had like 17 employees and from then on have kept their promise of open dev. That’s just not something other game studios have done or are doing outside of SC and Ghost to my knowledge. It has its pros and cons, pros being player feedback to help you, cons being people complain about dev time when it’s really not any different than most other mmorpg dev times
Time will tell, but I think the idea of pvp focused MMO has problems. I like pvp and in all the mmos have played it became what I spent the most time on, but I don't like when pvp and pve mix. When I pve I don't want to worry about the next ganker targeting me and I think i am not alone. In every title I played mixed zones tended to be deserted. I think it is easy in abstract to think that you want pvx but once the reality hits people seem to give it up rather quickly. I will give the game a go when it comes out, but past experience has taught me something.... never play a new MMO at launch
17:06 is one of the best part of the video^^
I saw WOW long time ago, didn't like it. Then I saw GW 1... What a game it was!
Gangsters paradise overlaying Star Citizen LMAO
Also, why has your channel not kicked off, better than most content on youtube.
Anyone spending money to play an alpha either has too much money or too much time on their hands
I have neither and i spent money LOL
Well done and fair. Earned a sub.
No game nowadays lasts over a month, the population drops when the hype fades.
PvP is for hardcores. Casuals playing PvE are where the money's at for subscription fees.
A game made for everyone is a game for no one, as well.
Some of those problems, even if valid are pretty minor.
AoC does not need to be that revolutionary, just successfully fill a niche. Lets not forget it is targeted at older people who like old school MMOs. What we want is solid implementation and trust that the developers will stick to their fundamental goals, like no P2Win. Given that the game is already fully funded and the devs are gaming fans themselves gives me hope. I have seen no signs yet that things are going wrong on that department.
The reason people are losing their minds is that AoC represents that whole philosophy around MMOs that has all but vanished. A lot is really riding on this project doing well.
Whatever your opinion may be about (classic) WoW and OSRS, it's obvious this formula appeals to so many people and sad that 20 years later we can't find something better because the genre has gone to shit.
Hey man, just a thing, Amazon owns the hardware, not the netcode. It's like saying "I bought this expensive PC, thus I bought FPS skills". No, that does not work like that. Amazon owns just the hardware, if the netcode is done badly - which is done badly, the people that work on those studios like Amazon are trash - then you get login queues. Usually cause they do not even give a shit about login servers - those are different servers than the player servers. Also, most games using instancing or "layering". Same way ESO has megaservers. Ashes is probably running one part of the world in a different server than the rest and use seamless loading over seas to make it look as if there is no loading, similar to what WoW did back in the days before layering, each zone was its own "instnace" but you would never notice loading times, cause the world was streamed in the background instead of a huge loading screen. Of course, going between CONTINENTS demanded a loading screen due to technical limitations.
Excellent video, great work! Send a subscription your way!
Always enjoy seing AoC being put into perspective 👏
I'm an avg player decades in all of them idc about stream snipping lol i dished out 375 usd to jump on the AOC Alpha 2 bandwagon as long as i can play for 6 months then i got my moneys worth 🤣🤣
I don't see a problem with stream sniping, as long as it's accompanied by a tbag.
Hard to argue with this
Our boy is anticipating an Asmon reaction with that views comment
Nah i would rather steer clear of any reacts from him after the last one.
Need more games like ark PvP. Shows players reality and is fun asf.
Does this guy like any mmos? XD… also you can hope all you want, but the developer will, most definitely, change the game in a number of ways to attract bigger audiences. The pvp especially, I like pvp, I don’t mind if it’s always on, but I can also admit to the fact that it’s not a popular mechanic for casual players, and casual players are a very large part of the mmo fan base…
Casual players ruin mmos
@@sawmanUK sure whatever, and without them aoc and any other mmo would have half its population, or even worse it might have mo2s population size
SC's getting pretty fun nowadays, I think AoC will be great fun in another 3 to 5 years.
I think SC is great but just full of faults...and I think AOC is going exactly the same way.
@@sawmanUK AoC is a much smaller game in scope so I don't think it'll be as rough as SC but they still clearly have a lot to do and most importantly, are gonna get hit just like SC and pax dei did... With people not liking stuff and needing to make big changes.
It is going to be an amazing game in 10 years when it releases.
You could release 5 BDOs in that time 👀😹
@@sawmanUK LMAO OK YOU MESS UP ONE TIME
If Aoc has no streamers, that would be perfect.
Lazypeoon moved to an asian country for a very specific reason involving. Well. I think you know why he'd want to live where he lives
I can explain why I like wow over other MMO's. It is the different intensities of challenge. Raiding can be high intensity, high communication. Pug raids can be medium intensity. Soloing can be low intensity where I can watch a show while gathering things for my raid. Heck, it can be even ultra rare intensity. I once spent a couple days reading while fishing up the turtle mount. People in guild were impressed by it. I had not impressed anyone with my ability to sit on my ass and read since 5th grade.
When I hear "full pvp mmo" I immediately lose interest. A full PVP game is one where I will never be able to watch a documentary while grinding.
count on a mere 25-30-ish servers for A2.
Remember when BETA tests were free...🤔
Those 'content creators' who want PVE are in the wrong game. If they can't understand/want or appreciate what the vision is they shouldn't be even commenting on the game.