IMPORTANT: This video is long since OUTDATED and does not accurately represent the situation as it is described here. Instead, if you are looking for information on this controversy or are just curious, I'd recommend watching Tsunul's video on it instead. He is a good friend of mine and has a way more up-to-date narrative of the situation, so go check it out instead! Link to Tsunul's video: th-cam.com/video/cigpUKl5gtc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Gzaf2hWLYtC6mtfF&t=1657 Before commenting on this video please make sure to: 1. Be respectful of eachother and eachother's opinions. People can have differing opinions and this isn't 4chan. 2. Please do not harass anyone mentioned in the video or actively seek to provoke others. That just isn't cool. 3. Don't spread misinformation and hate speech. I will just delete the comment.
slight clarification, but "TERF" is specifically a term used to refer to *"trans exclusionary* radical feminist" (hence the abbreviation) as far as I can tell there's nothing about trans people that relates to this group so people espousing man-hating views (misandry) are best referred to as just "radical feminist" or "radfem" for short, otherwise it will result in severe misunderstanding that, or use the name of the website group if you want to be specific
The TERF part AFAIK is another tidbit of misinformation, just a buzzword they learnt and now are using. Because I was asking them before they fired the artist to give me a source or explain and they never said anything about TERFs, right until time passed and suddenly now that's a thing (never sourced btw)
@@blackm7md244 1.The story artist drew illustrations related to the story according to the position she didn't do anything else (in other words, all the statements that she doing anything else are false) 2.The 5th chapter of the story might be delayed a little bit It is a natural step for Chapter 5 to be postponed to some extent if it is done by hiring a freelancer or replacing another artist I don't think the damage will be that great
The whole "Boatworks Ishmael design is censored" thing really falls apart when you realize that even the artwork itself implies that she's DIVING UNDERWATER FOR A RATHER LONG TIME. With this in mind, would you rather: 1) Use a proper outfit for diving and get the job done safely Or 2) Work in bikini 'cause it's a summer event in a gacha Think, Mark!
Tbh, if those people wanted to debate about feminism, try counter them with hypersexualization, because in AK, there's once this case of idiocy where a Genshin player call out to AK community over Goldenglow's design as straight up hypersexualization, compared to Ayato's that has historical value. That moment, AK players just posted dozens of certainly NOT hypersexualized opeator designs, and even comparing them to Genshin's characters which are bit hypersexualized.
PM are one of the rare companies that actually listen to their customers and make an attempt to make changes and tweaks for the sake of customer loyalty. I give money to the company not only because their game is fun, but also because I genuinely want to see this company succeed. However, push comes to shove, if enough people alienate the company for minor issues like this enough times, they might just put their foot down, and it’s gonna affect the whole community if so.
@@Apollyon.777also, isn't *former* member worth anything to you? That isn't being fair, it's just excessive. People who, for example, stop being fascist aren't suddenly perfect people just because they stop being assholes but I do think that turning away from old friends and old beliefs takes a lot of courage and you shouldn't be punished for one mistake forever.
@@janzekar6432I don't understand the English grammar of your comment. As a German who is kerning English I would appreciate it if you were to use a more expressive sentence to communicate your point
Nobody in korean community took Sinclair choker thing seriously, that was widely regarded as a joke except for maybe 2 or 3 schizos because that is not related to the artist who got fired, she only did storyline artworks, a completely different artist did all ID arts.
The Sinclair Choker thing was literally the first thing on the printed “manifesto” the guys brought when they went to PM’s office uninvited as “representatives of the community”
@@mattestea literal witch hunt. Women always have to be at fault. It’s South Korea’s incels throwing a temper tantrum like gutter trash. Limbus is run by a bunch of weak minded choads that can’t protect their own employees or conduct themselves with any amount of dignity. I’m boycotting everything they do. Can you believe this is 2023?
Since the issue is closely related to gender conflict in Korea, there is a big difference between the news that Korean men say and Korean women say. It seems difficult for English-speaking users to figure out which gender's opinion is right. I hope PM to release a statement that will satisfy many people as soon as possible.
To be fair, I dont even think this is necessarily just gender conflict specific (although that's clearly a big part). The fact its in Korea makes it so much more difficult to have our own opinions on this situation since we don't know much context. For example, in 99% of situations in a western counties, I would be annoyed at a company for firing an employee for drama like this (hell, I'm of the opinion that what someone says on their social media and the place they work at is separate, new or old opinion be damned). ESPICALLY so suddenly, when there clearly wouldn't have been any proper investigation to whether the allegations are even true (a big gripe against blizzard I have was them firing Kael'Thas's voice actor for allegations that he was STILL in court for, and that he would be later concluded as innocent). BUT I've heard that Korea fans are notoriously toxic (God bless K-pop stars the poor bastards), and that apparently a bunch of enraged fans were AT Project moons office which would have absolutely been threatening to the staff, that fact makes me a lot more hesitant to look down at project moon for their choice of firing the artist to get heat of their back, even though (from what have found), I think the artist absoulutely didn't deserve it. Because I genuinely don't know what might have happened to the Project moon staff if they didn't.
@@blazichaos7181 그리고 그 직원이 해고된 이유도 "회사의 이미지에 악영향을 줄 수 있는 혐오발언등의 언급이 있는 계정을 쓰지 말것" 이라는 회사계약 (말로만 이루어진 계약이 아니라 계약서에서도 명시되어있는 내용입니다 )에 대한 위반이였기 때문이지 단지 페미니스트이기 때문은 아니였어요. 한국 남자에 대한 포괄적인 비하적 발언을 여러번 했다는 정황이 드러난 시점에서 PM이 그 직원을 해고를 한다는 것에서 문제가 될 부분은 없다고 봅니다. 여기서 생각해볼 문제는 굳이 이 사람은 어째서 회사용 트위터계정을 파지 않았는가 입니다. 다시말해 자신의 혐오발언에 대한 반성에 따른 삭제가 아닌 회사에 입사하기 위한 삭제였을수도 있다는거죠. 애시당초에 성별을 가지고 혐오를 하는건 옳지 않다고 생각하는 바 입니다. 그게 남자든 여자든 간에 말입니다. 한국의 페미니스트는 크게 MEGALIAN 이라 불리는 소속하에 두 종류로 나뉘는데 온건파와 강경파로 나뉩니다. 이중 강경파가 주권을 쥐고 있는데 WOMAD라고 파생된 집단이 이를 대표합니다. 이들은 극우, 극좌 성향을 동시에 띄며 '4chan'이나 한국의 '일베' 보다 짙고 어두운 형태를 띄곤 합니다. 불운한 인생끝에 자살한 남성의 이름을 따서 조롱하는등 윤리적으로 올바르지 못한 일을 자행하고 있죠. 뿐만 아니라 파시즘적인 성격을 띄기도 합니다. 해외에서의 일반적인 남녀평등을 위한 페미니즘이 아닌 여성우월주의의 페미니즘을 지향하는 바라는 모습에서 라던가 남자라면 노인부터 어린이, 심지어 가족마저도 혐오하자는 성향을 보인다는 점에서 파시즘적인 성향이 크다는 걸 보여주며 이는 대통령 취임당시 임신 파업이라는 참 특이한 형태의 모습으로 해외 언론에 드러난 적도 있습니다. 이전부터 임신의 여부는 의무가 아니라 권리였는데 말이죠. 아니고서야 한국의 출산률이 0.73까지 떨어질 이유가 없지 않겠습니까? ㅋㅋㅋㅋ (물론 해외언론은 정부의 여성에 대한 대우에 있어 잘못이 크다고 보도했지만, 사실 극좌의 성격을 띄는 이들이 쓴 정치적인 갈등이 표현된 글에 불과합니다..) 이렇기 때문에 한국에서 남녀평등이 이루어지기 위해선 WOMAD 와도 많이 엮여있는 정부산하부서인 '여성가족부'를 폐지하고 새로운 부서를 만들고자 이번 정부가 나선것이였지만 해외언론에 의해 실패한것 같더군요. 엠네스티가 부디 제대로 파악하고 광고를 진행했으면 하는 바 입니다... 영어에 능숙하지 못해 모국어를 사용해서 좀 더 정확한 표현으로 전달하지 못한점이 아쉽지만, 부디 저의 내용이 잘 전달되었으면 하네요 :D
I think we should follow Mick Gordon's advice to seriously think twice about boycotting. Yes, Kim's decision isn't unanimously agreeable, but boycotting the whole studio and not supporting the multitudes of others who had nothing to do with it, such as other artists, writers, VAs, EIM, and Mili, simply because of ONE person's decision is a bit silly to me. I will still keep up with the game and occasionally spending money on it for their sake. Hopefully we can all learn something from this. It truly was a lose lose for Kim, and I am kind of lost on how to feel. I respect any and all reactions, whether they agree with me or not. Take care everyone.
the people who've done work for the game were already paid. by that logic, no one should ever boycott any company, because you could potentially hurt any of their workers. and that sounds even more silly.
@@Redheart709 I suppose you have a point, though my logic was that since this game is gonna be in development for a while, obviously the flow of money to the others aside from Kim still needs to happen
I'm so sad with this situation. While i don't agree with their decision, i understand why they decided to fire the artist. PM don't deserve all the hate they are receiving, i hope they can change their decision and face the fear and build the future once again.
unfortunately all options PM could've taken were bad. its either to anger the korean community or a big part of the foreign community sadly enough, but hopefully with this video more people will understand!
@@Welvader I've seen many Koreans on X corp and Reddit that don't agree with PM's decision, especially artists, some of them even decided to leave the fandom sadly... That's why I think PM can find a way to resolve this, even if that make some part of the KR community angry, I really hope PM can overcome this problem
I wish none of this had to happen. And it's all happening because people have to dig up stuff from your past for no reason. I guess growing past something or even handling your own opinions properly is not allowed by the internet. People just never change in the eyes of certain social media. I'm cheering on for PM and i hope the artist manages to either come back or find a decent job. This all is ridiculous.
To put a very long story short, dissatisfaction in a part of the korean fandom over recent changes, which led to controversy about one of the artists and them being fired because of it. I have put a detailed timeline of events in the description if you wish to know what's been happening over the last few days!
gonna copy and paste a thing i wrote about it rn: Basically from what I’ve gathered, here’s a rough and most likely inaccurate thing but yea: due the the summer event not having fan service disgruntled Korean players somehow got the idea one of the artist was a radical feminist holding PM and the fan service hostage. They tried harassing the main artist who did the Ishmael summer portrait but they found out the artist was male so he couldn’t be a feminist. Well someone still has to be blamed so they looked to the other main artist whose name I forgot, look in Twitter (where all this is going down), they do the story cutscene art and stuff. The harassers found the artist was female which was enough for them to try and dig up anything possible to prove their a radical feminist holding the fan service hostage. They eventually dug up (a) 3-5 year old retweet(s) of a post which can be possibly loosely linked to feminism. This (and other bull evidence like Yi sang holding a ampule being similar to the logo of the feminist group) was enough for the disgruntled kr players to start a harassment campaign against the artist and PM. The players review bombed, showed up to the HQ, etc. PM being bad with backlash terminated the artist shortly after, citing they broke a rule which said they had to delete all controversial posts on social media accounts (some say the artist already did, not too sure about it). However a immediate termination was too harsh for everyone else, also the fact the harassers were a vocal minority. The termination was heavily disliked by the community. Now everything PM related is unstable, the games future with a loss of a key artist, PR as a whole, the community, etc. that’s where we are at the time of making this. notes: -there is misinformation going around that the message was linked to a radical feminism group, it is not.
거짓정보를 정정하고 다리가 되어주셔서 정말 감사합니다. 경거망동 하지말고, PM의 다음 공지를 기다립시다. Thank you so much for correcting false information and being a bridge. Don't be hasty, let's wait for the next PM announcement.
Sigh, i just want to play my limbus gacha dammit Thanks for summerizing the whole situation. I don't blame project moon or the artist and i hope the best for them. I hope that the firing was at least cordial and with a certain degree of understanding from both sides. I hope that this doesn't have any lasting negative impact on PM or the artist, i truly wish them the best Fuck those people that dug it up and forced PM hands tho, there is a special place in hell for these kinds of people
The firing sadly most definitely wasn't cordial. We have a report from a korean news outlet that Vellmoor was fired at 11 PM over a phone call. Which apparently is illegal in Korea? (Don't know if the whole 'will give you letters for being fired later holds up at all in Korean court)
Korea society is very wierd and strange in both ways so it is best not to take a step into this debate or you will be forces to take sides... In korea, a voice actor was fired because he posted a tweet publicizing a drama he dubbed. The drama was made him japan and was about japanese pornography profession, protagonist becoming X-rated film director. Even though the only things he said were "the acting was good", "I did my best in voice acting", "the drama is x-rated and the main theme might be polarizing, so take caution in watching", people tweeted that "he agrees in female exploit"(in korea any form of excessive female lewdity is called female exploit and any male involved form director, actor to customer is blamed for forcing females into such act. even cartoonist is blamed blamed for drawing characters too sexy(fans if the cartoonist is female)). Tweeter users even spread false rumers like "the voice actor cheated his wife", and ignored all other opinions saying "are you male?"(the game was made for female users and almose no males were playing it). The voice actor was fired five days later. The game company decided to hire a voice actor named "Kang Min Gyun", but people dug is tweeter account and found a tweet saying that he does not support TURFs 11 years ago. He was fired because of it. The korean society is spining in a strange and terrifying axis, and it is not your duty to fix it. It will be just best for you to ignore everything, say nothing and enjoy UMIDA. OPEN THE SERVER PMOON!!!!!!
They got Sloshmael and Scubmael, ain't no way that wasn't enough for them. In any case, I hope that this doesn't have too big of an impact on PM and the community, and that there is a way for the artist to come back, because I liked the CGs. Star star heart heart heart.
I have heard people that are very disappointed or mad because PM submitted to the boycotters demands. While I am disappointed that the artist was fired, the reason for it lies on the small and rabid people that saw politics were there wasn't any. The company was basically backed up to a wall by these people that wanted a swimsuit ID and to remove Sinclair's IDs chocker. I just hope that the community and company can recover from this.
Yeah exactly, i think people should look at the source of the problem and not the problem itself. Also the doubling down tweets about the artist turned out to be false so theres a realistic chance she could be hired back if korean society would allow that
I think that PM is just trying to defend their employees at that moment because there were death threats. People tends to forget that PM is just a company of about 30 people ain’t no way they protection like triple A games company So while firing the artist is a shame it is still understandable why they did it.
@@koharuhomura709They never went to PM headquarters to threaten murder. I don't know who spread this crazy false information as someone who has seen the process firsthand. People who went there recently went to get answers directly from PM's staff about a number of problematic behavior in the game, and they actually had a two-hour meeting and got answers to themselves. Please don't spread false information. (There may be some awkwardness because some translators were used.)
@@성이름-g3s2z but still the death threats were there and between someone being injured for real and firing someone, it is still reasonable for them to make that decision.
I feel for everyone involved. Hope PM and the CG artist recover from this swiftly. I particularly loved those scenes in the story pieces, hard to think of them just replacing it without affecting the quality or feel to it.
@@areszeudion5153 Same, I would've loved if they released a digital artbook or something like that with all the art... well, hard to imagine that now. Goddamnit.
@@LaRavachole Personally it also worries me since the artist also partakes in the art creation for Leviathan, you know the CG's for certain scenes, like Black Silence, the Monsieur, Yujin, and etc. I hope Leviathan still continues.
Thanks for the video, so sad to see the way things turned out. There really was no option they could've taken once the cat was out of the bag so to speak, they were bound to take a hit to their reputation regardless of what the outcome of their actions was.... I just wish with all my heart not only PM but the community can come out of this stronger than ever. I know that's going to be hard as there's already plenty of artists saying they're leaving the fan community and artists and content creators are one of if not, the most important backbones of a community. There's just too much misinformation coming from the KR side trying to disguise themselves to make an accurate assessment of the full situation, so just holding out for a better tomorrow is all I can do for now... For my fellow PM fans, stay strong, you don't have to feel the need take action but even if you need a short break from PM that's fine too. All i ask is that everyonat at least give PM a chance to explain themselves rather than relying on all these second hand account to finalize your decision on whether you're moving on or staying.
I won't go into details because there are alot of people (like Welvader) whos already said whats needed to be said. I will say that however you want to feel about the game or if you feel uncomfortable about the whole situation. Don't let it affect how you enjoy limbus company. It's your own experience and i wouldn't want people to feel discourage from the whole drama. Play and support the game however you feel like it.
Since I am a Korean game user, I am trying to convey information that I can know. I am using translator. There may be errors. sorry I will briefly write about the background of this incident. In the past, many Korean mobile and online games, such as Limbus Company, suffered a huge hit in sales for similar reasons. Because of this, the Korean game industry is particularly sensitive to individual activities that may cause social controversy, and even dismissal of employees who have caused controversy is possible. For reference, even if the illustrator who suffered damage caused other social controversies rather than his past Redfem activity history, the company would suffer great damage and even consider dismissal. In foreign countries, you may think that individual employee thoughts and dismissal are not related, but in Korean culture, users tend to look badly if an employee has thoughts or actions that cause social controversy even if they do not directly harm the company. Also, because of the employee, there is a significant hit to sales. Therefore, Korean employees deleted their social network accounts or acted anonymously before joining the company, and the illustrator at the center of this case put his Twitter account in the ending credits, so users confirmed this and a problem occurred.
No, that’s not what happened. Incels threw a fit over the character design of the female not being naked enough. Incels went after the character designer, found out it’s a male who kept the character “conservatively dressed” and then pressured Limbus to instead fire a female employee. They argued that she was a radical feminist who pressured her male colleague into keeping the character “covered up.” Limbus did fire her for “posting controversial things.” The employee they fired is a female storyboard artist, she didn’t even design characters. Incels used an archive to go back and look at this female employee’s social media profile post by post. The incriminating post they found was that the female employee reposting support to end the illegal filming of women in hotel and mall bathrooms. This is a huge problem in South Korea due to perverted men who want to spy on women. It is illegal to film women genitals in bathroom stalls. Apparently incels in SK have a huge fetish for feces and urine, as well as voyeurism. Their goal is to make women feel unsafe. So they said the female employee was a radical feminist and pressured limbus to fire her. This is not a radical feminist stance. This isn’t a controversial thing to outlaw. It is already illegal in South Korea. The female employee was fired anyway… Her account had been deleted for over 5 years. The post she retweeted was from before Limbus even existed as a company. Limbus is run by weak minded choads. You cannot excuse their misogyny. Limbus lost its dignity. And limbus lost me for life. Fuck Limbus.
It's quite sad to see this situation. This fandom has always been small, but pretty close-knit. Of course, like any fandom, there have been individuals, but then again, everyone has that to a greater or lesser extent. And, I sincerely hope that in time the whole situation will get better and even this artist can get back on track. Because let's face it - the visuals of the game and characters are excellent. And yes, it's okay from a story standpoint, for Ishi - working underwater, she needs something to protect her normally. Emil on the other hand looks great, he's a mechanic, he tries to work openly in the heat, and his choker is for beauty, not because of "deep meaning". Stay calm in peace, Glory to Project Moon!
Both sides are going too extreme. I agree. PM doesn't deserve this hate. While I agree that firing artist may be a hasty decision, if the company policy said so, nothing could be done. There are actually more drama into it, but I am glad that this video doesn't mistaken those peaceful protestors "racists wolf," or something like that. (Yes it's a direct quote from someone in Twitter.) It's hard to explain why S. Koreans are so sensitive about "radical feminists," or why many of the Korean community have bad relationship with Twitter fandoms. Those very complicated stuff to explain without any controversy, so I won't explain in here. Thank you Welvader. It was sad to see many people being mislead by countless misinformation floating around the internet.
That is exact my point I said in a post on the remaining Limbus subreddit, citing thousands of reasons of why something could have happened and why people thinking that the sole "Complaint" of the people from DCInside made them fire the artist instead of the fact that what was brought into light that did so (even if the clasule is a bit crappy) were thinking too hastily. But what happened? I got many people crapping on PM and saying that I did X or Y, I got many people assuming even more things, when I delivered reasons of why things could have happened in a way that does not mean PM is mysongynistic, people just took the possibility I said over their heads and made even more assumptions treating these assumptions of them as facts. It is an awful situation, but honestly, I think we started to get people in this drama that care more about taking sides in the drama and stirring the pot than playing the god damn game, I think both sides got people that didn't even care about the game talking about it due the drama and making it a way bigger thing than what the PM announcement was
I just hope that this will pass and everyone will just be happy with the event and the game. Personally i don't care about this contraversy just wanna enjoy the game in peace
"Both sides are going too extreme." Oh yeah, threatening employees, getting the artist fired, crying because an outfit wasn't too "sexy", review bombing and going to the office is just as bad as getting mad because someone got fired for no reason. And radical feminism is being against filming without consent? An incel defending incels, how strange
Korean here. Swimsuit was like the lastest thing we wanted. Not sure where these 'Korean people are attacking PM for swimsuit' came from... Here is, for least, what the majority of us were about. Going back to the MD2 Hard release date, we were hugely dissatisfied with MD2 Hard. We thought it was uncreative and simply raising difficulty through numbers. People expected a more gimmicky yet fun experience. After that, the Uptie 4 update happened. We first were happy, but later when we found out about the flaws, extreme thread cost and stuff that basically ruined some identities, (Most famous being the talisman) our dissatisfaction grew. Alongside, most of us thought Representation Emitter nerf was too much, and Uptie 4 didn't help fixing it. The dissatisfaction grew even more when we found out about the Offence/Defence system nerfing some identities. Despite PM mentioning 'ensure that the experience does not change too sharply', it did for One Who Grip Faust and many other identities. After that, we also found out the error with Bodysack. At this point, the community was at its angry state with repeated mistakes and errors. For least, we expected some more announcements to be made with all of these issues. Yet it took 4 days for the problem to be even mentioned in the first place. On July 24th, after a 4 day wait, the PM finally gave their answer. Yet only the Bodysack and Offence/Defence system was fixed, and the rest remained near abandoned. People slowly couldn't trust the PM with how much error they make recently, and thought it was more likely that they would repeat such a mistake. Therefore, people expected the next announcement to address more issues and apologies. And then, boat fixer Ishmael and Sinclair teaser was dropped. This became the flint that started this fire. People felt betrayed, and thought the PM simply abandoned and ignored all the problems that happened in recent updates. The Sinner Rotation made a lot of people angered too. Whilst we expected a new Gregor/Faust personality, they gave it to Ishmael. Community ravaged, and people brought up underlying problems that Limbus had since its release, such as 'Lack of testing', 'Unfriendly tutorial' and so on. It's obvious that this anger usually turns irrational. And yes, swimsuit were also brought up during this irrational state. Problem is, this was the time when people started review-bombing the game, and so the whole flame spread to other communities. I think this was the time when people thought Korean gamers demand swimsuits, whilst it being a rather controversial opinion even in the Korean community and made when the community is completely out of control and is blind from rage. It's not the problem of the art nor the character itself, but the majority just raged about the teaser itself and it felt like the PM is ignoring such problems.
Ah i see, thank you for clarifying the situation! It really means a lot to see a lot of Korean people coming in and speaking about the situation from their perspective!
The main thing I don’t understand is why people were so impatient. PM usually releases a statement every week and even then these are very big changes which would need way more time than usual to address. Another thing that really pisses me off is that if the community really wanted issues related to the game to be fixed, then why the hell would you go after an artist. I understand that feminism is a hot topic in S Korea, but making fake tweets and fanning the fire takes away most of the actual message. Yes PMoon will release a statement soon, but they would’ve anyways if the community had just given minor criticism. But now the game has been review bombed to hell, the fandom has been thrown into chaos, and worst of all you have the twitter vultures stirring the pot when they don’t even know what a Library of Ruina is. I even found an SJW with twitter blue tweeting to boycott PM even though they’ve never played the game. God forbid some petty influencer tries to get some clout from this. And all this is hurting the game that we all want to see prosper for the stupidest reasons. Now when people learn about Limbus Company or any other of PM’s games, they’ll get the wrong idea and this that PM is some shitty pandering company or something like that, which puts off many players. Overall, that toxic side of the Korean community better have a written apology ready because right now they’ve ruined it for everyone.
@@googleslides8305like he says, the swimsuit thing came during the raging period And you know, when people are mad they tend to be really irrational and I agree that things such as this, the last thing you want to let people know is at twitter, been seeing quite a lot of vultures too in the comments
@@googleslides8305 It's slightly different. This would definitely be true if the game wasn't live-service gacha game. For such thing as bodysack issue, some players have no idea that there is error and simply proceed with the uptie. Frankly speaking, it's kind of a scam. Such things shouldn't take around 4 days to be fixed. Thankfully PM returned the resources that were used for such issue, but this is, something that not the user should have patience, but more of the game company need to take action faster.
No. If it was really about the game issues then why would people show up at PM's office with a manifesto to point out how the artist is a "feminist" and attempt to get her fired. They found out the ID artist was a man so they had to scour to find a new target, the CG artist. It was all about Ishmael not being in a bikini
Feel so bad for PM rn, they're pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place, with the Korean community clamouring and threatening violence, and getting labeled cowards by some of the western community. Yeah, they're not entirely blameless here, but they're a pretty small company, and you can't expect them to magically make the best decision 100% of the time. I just hope PM can pull through without too much trouble and keep doing what they do best.
Yeah its definitely a tough situation, especially when looking at the femenism situation because Korea and overseas community has complete opposite views of the situation, so whatever option is chosen it is bound to offend one of the two at least. Just hope people will be understanding and forgive PM for it
@@WelvaderI wish they can move bases to elsewhere since if they keep getting people who would threaten a employee then they should move somewhere safer
I really dislike western community calling them cowards or saying they "Bent the knee" To my knowledge there was a similar situation in the past where PM said they will deal with employees who would have past that could lead to controversies/extremism Albeit I heard it during last few days from alleged Korean community as I am rather recent PMoon games enjoyer
@@cooldog2636 Contrary to popular belief actually there have been no verifications of physical violence or yelling, from the sources I've read the discussion went down very peacefully. You can find some sources about it in the description!
@@Welvaderhile the people that went to discuss stuff at the PM office don’t seem to have made threats the group they belonged to were making threats before during the entire review bombing process. Citing KyoAni, and most likely sending death threats to PM’s email accounts. I say “most likely” because while there isn’t any proof about this in this instance the same thing happened previously during other review bomb incidents especially during ruina with email death threats being sent and I doubt the methods would change. A lot of people are saying this but it’s getting misconstrued as “they went to the office and physically threatened them” leading to the KR players defending their side by saying that no threats were made or else police would’ve been called. There were no in person threats, but if people belonging to a group that’s been calling for the death of your employees and the burning of your office suddenly drop in unannounced the threat is naturally implied. I don’t know if this actually influenced PMs decision of firing the artist after very little time of deliberation but it should be made clear. There’s also the fact that PM directly asks to not send any more threats to them or their associates in their apology announcement.
I feel like people are overracting too much and is taking PM's kindness as an advantage. They've been spoiled with so much free stuff that I feel like they are making demands rather than communicating feedback
definitely, and its also something i worry about in the video when i state that it could happen again if people are mildly angry over a new update. I wish to change the community for the better and make us more friendly towards PM! because sadly they've been forced into a corner by this
I feel the same way but with the community shutdown on the discord. To me its just talking/controversy that will get corrected over time, I'm more interested in the gameplay and what people think of new content such as new IDs and such. I think its pretty boring to talk about one thing for more than 24hrs and will change as soon as the new event hits. Opting to silence everyone is a pretty hard-handed move and probably now disturbs people who are used to freely communicating. I think that made the situation worse and makes people find other media to communicate or spread their thoughts/dissatisfaction but now everywhere and not in a close environment. Even just sharing the news that the community discord got shutdown I got faced with a 'warning' for drama, which my intentions were to notify like "Oh server got shutdown". Makes me realize they're so sensitive, emotional and trigger-happy to even observe, consider, and make the appropriate decision. Could make the argument that's the best initial plan they had to control the situation, but personally for me, I'm a bit annoyed. I think this experience makes me have a negative lasting view on the community mods. The players and gameplay though, are great. We're still talking about MD2 hard bull and how they'd love to smell sweaty Ishmael. Not me though, definitely not. Cough* Cough*
@@OnionJuiceEnjoyerthe real reason why the pm community discord was shut down is because people are spreading misinformation like wildfire to the point is overwhelming to the mods and fans. It's a mass distortion
Heres my timeline of events: so the Chinese and Koreans were really unhappy about the state of the game the Chinese acted first and protested the high uptie4 costs of the game, review bombing it after Pmoon announced the umida event The Korean side(especially the DcInside forums) was unhappy about the state of the game and started review bombing the game citing numerous issues like the stealth nerf to the offence level of certain identities, the unsatisfying uptie4 update and the heavy nerf to base egos like Faust's Representation Emitter One of the issues highlighted was that the Sinclair's ID was very fanservicey to females, but more than that, the ID had a collar which they thought heavily connected to radical feminism Radical Feminism is a very hot button topic in Korea and apparently has ruined several game properties and has caused numerous controversies(according to them) so they wanted it addressed immediately but no answers came from Pmoon for quite a while After digging further, many Koreans discovered that one of the artists had alleged heavy connections to radical feminism and it became an even more urgent situation. Some of the Cgs that the artist did heavily eluded to radical feminist symbols(they thought) Peaceful protestors went to Pmoon office and stood outside to attempt to meet the staff/director for some changes which made Pmoon have an emergency meeting with them. In which the director planned to address the situation at 12am Korean time It is heavily implied by Project Moon that the artist broke some part of the contract that related to causing controversy But for now I do not have any evidence to bring up to support such a thing. edit: I do not have 100% proof that the artist had connections to radical feminism but the koreans thought that
(I used a translator) Thank you for catching all the misinformation spread. I'm so sad that the game I used to enjoy suddenly became like this. Thank you for making the video.
Probably a lot more, but it remains to be seen how the situations pans out, because it turns out some key points the community thought was true turned out to be completely false, so its very unclear which decisions PM could take are morally right. But that could be its own entire video to be honest, this just covers the context and basics for people interested!
So much misinformation is being spread, it's so hard to know what's really happening now. All I want is to be able to play some limbus :/ Thank you so much for the overview and summary of the video Welvader
Ngl, this whole thing reminds me back in 2018 when Girl's Frontline developer, Team Mica, fired the artist of K7 because of her associations with Megalia and spouting anti-men slurs on Twitter that ended with K7 being scrapped and never be released on the game alongside K5.
The main thing I don’t understand is why people were so impatient. PM usually releases a statement every week and even then these are very big changes which would need way more time than usual to address. Another thing that really pisses me off is that if the community really wanted issues related to the game to be fixed, then why the hell would you go after an artist. I understand that feminism is a hot topic in S Korea, but making fake tweets and fanning the fire takes away most of the actual message. Yes PMoon will release a statement soon, but they would’ve anyways if the community had just given minor criticism. But now the game has been review bombed to hell, the fandom has been thrown into chaos, and worst of all you have the twitter vultures stirring the pot when they don’t even know what a Library of Ruina is. I even found an SJW with twitter blue tweeting to boycott PM even though they’ve never played the game. God forbid some petty influencer tries to get some clout from this. And all this is hurting the game that we all want to see prosper for the stupidest reasons. Now when people learn about Limbus Company or any other of PM’s games, they’ll get the wrong idea and this that PM is some shitty pandering company or something like that, which puts off many players. Overall, that toxic side of the Korean community better have a written apology ready because right now they’ve ruined it for everyone.
Seeing this video and comments underneath it made me feel more at peace, I agree with many of the people saying that it was all lose-lose situation and that it isn't fully PM's fault. It all took a pretty nasty toll on me, seeing how many people around me on Twitter declared that they will be leaving fandom, so it's good to see people who don't share this idea
Also, people should stop about 'now they are attacking someone else stuff'. Cuz they aren't. No one in the community started this drama is attacking elsewhere.
Some more information about the issue. All of the timeline is based on Korean time, and sorry for my poor English. 1:11 The one who actually start the rumor that "Project Moon hires TERF, and new Ishmael & Sinclair's 4.5 ID proves it." was troll. Happened on Friday, right after the release of the teaser. 1:13 However, another gamer found out the famous symbol of TERF comunity in Korea, in the illustration of Ch4. (The image that Isang holding the sample given by Dongrang) Happened on Saturday. 1:21 Furthermore, gamers found out the 'deleted tweets' of story illustrator, depends on his/her nickname written in Ch4 Ending credit. Now it is confirmed the illustrator is TERF. Happened on Sunday. The negative reviews are written from here. 2:03 They sent an E-mail to PM,(Fortunately, it doesn't contain any kind of bad words or threat.) but since PM do not read it(Becuase the director was in Japan for some business issues), some of them went to the company building and had talk with employees.(Fortunately again, there wasn't any kind of threat or violence.) Happened on Monday. Director heard about the issue from other employees, and make an announcement for Korean only in a rush. It contains about the issues of gameplay (like the E.G.O. lotation) that Korean gamers mentioned, and mentioned PM will not extend the contract with the TERF illustrator (So he/she can work until the contract ends, which means until Ch 4.5 ends, and can receive all money mentioned in contract.) Happened on Tue-Wed midnight. The negative reviews of Korean 4chan are replaced with positive one. That's all.
I keep seeing the word TERF thrown around, but I believe that's inaccurate. "TERF" refers to a specific subset of radical feminism that focuses on demeaning the identities of transgender individuals. The "TE" stands for "Trans-Exclusionary". Using the word TERF to refer to the artist might cause some people to draw different conclusions than they would otherwise, due to the connotations it has over here.
@@velvetphi Since the illustrator do not express her opinion after the issue, so we do not 'officially' know he/she is TERF now. However, the symbol that he/she drew is the one for TERF community in Korea. Yes, that TERF you said.
"The image that Isang holding the sample given by Dongrang" this point is quite a massive reach. Also, May I have the source for those "delete tweets' ?
@@user-wandererRed From what I have seen, it is a symbol associated with radical feminism in general, not just TERF feminists. It would obviously also be used by people following TERF ideology, but not exclusively- all TERFs are radical feminists, but not all radical feminists are TERFs. It's not a major distinction, but I still think it's important to make.
Damn, I've been entirely mislead from what I've gathered so far. From what I heard, I thought there were people fighting over Ishmael, either because she was being oversexualized compared to typical PM fare and thus the game was turning into NIKKE, or people were thirsting over her so hard people were instantly disgusted with the community over it (Which would've been rich, since the way they talk about Sinclair makes Kromer look like the least down bad person on the continent, so I figured that the alternate universe where Ish was a dude had no issues whatsoever.) And something about one of the Dev team being a radical feminist, which I think is bull, because I've heard the Korean feminist scene is a lot more... extreme than it is in the west, so being radical by their standards means you're probably not gonna have the message go over your head. Or, she is one of the rare human beings who can have an opinion and not immediately aggressively insert it into everything they present to others, in which case she deserves a medal and a new car. With my PATENTLY WRONG, MISINFORMED AND ESOTERIC TO THE POINT OF USELESSNESS OPINION out of the way, I'm very worried about how PM's gonna recover from this. That's a head artist suddenly thrown out, and a PR disaster that presumably looks much worse from their perspective than it does ours, so their reaction and the future is looking very grim. Frankly, I'm metaphorically hovering over my seat ready to leave, but I would really rather not. I like the game, the lore behind it, the characters, etc. and already invested into it somewhat, so jumping ship would feel awful... but if things go bad, I just gotta accept the scope's moved beyond my personal tolerances and leave. As an aside, did whoever come up with the concept of Gacha find it in a haunted mass grave or a bloody summoning circle or something? 'cause between Genshin having a new controversy every month, this and who knows what else, it feels like the genre just attracts misfortune and viciousness like very little else. It almost feels like PM would be more stable and lucky if they expanded into a conglomerate of hanghang pangpangs instead. asking humans to roll for characters outright curses you.
@@Welvader It's enough to make a man yearn for a comeback of the good old ways: Person with the highest upvotes of opinion A and Opinion B, knife fight outside the Bongy chicken. Last one with 65% of their skin remaining gets to decide the fate of whoever's the subject of the controversy.
What i hate is not the whole drama or anything, hell or even the review bomb. Is that the artist got fired (or in my word "sacrificed") To please the pricks. She already grown out of it and the tweets are actually 3 years old and doesn't reflect what her standing is today. This kind of Stuff makes me livid
@@slyfurgospel2749 the culture of “You said X or Y ten years ago and I dug it up, prepare for FIVE HUNDRED YEARS IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR” and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Honestly, thank you so much for making this video. Im not particularly familiar with Limbus Company but i was contemplating getting into it. However, I was introduced to this drama from someone I follow on twitter posting a tweet about it. I was disappointed, and I was even a little upset because I felt morally obligated not to get into the game. However, now that ive seen your video, i actually feel like i can get into the game without having any issues about it. Again, thank you so much for shedding some light on the situation.
PM made the wrong decision firing the artist because of fake screen shot Also, I havent found any reliabole evidence that the artist was a radical feminist in the past or that she breached the contract so if anyone have any infomation on that, it would be helpful to share it.
Thanks for the summary although i already knew something about it but being there a lot of misinformation, things that got lost in translation and people sending their biased version of the thing, it isn't easy distinguishing true from false and so it's very appreciated. Sincerely when i heard it i was shocked and was tempted to leave the game, but after thinking about it i think while it's still bad the artist was fired, it's just too easy to point the finger and say "to ignore the incels" while we can see the thing only from a limited point of view, also cause the situation to me is very delicate and who knows what could have happened if they were ignored. Plus people often forget a developer isn't made of only one person, so by putting all the blame to PM you're unfairly putting the guilt to workers that maybe didn't even agree on the decision. Plus i mean it's a lose-lose situation, whether they fired her or not there would have been negative consequences for them. While i'm sad i decided to stay, i love the game and i think we shouldn't just rush and uninstall the game cause the situation is still very uncertain and will just play the new event
what i dont understand is how this guys are probably the kinkiest people in the world, and yet they complain they got what basicaly amounts to a bondage suit + water something kink (there is a kink really popular over there about people that were wet) just cause it wasent a bikini, when its probably better for their fribled minds
It’s really hard to see people get mad at project moon, even though the awful decision to unjustly fire the artist was only made by a few individuals. Now people think that “boycotting” a small indie studio is justifiable. Ultimately if project moon isn’t able to recover, more people will end up out of work. While the decision was obviously a very foolish one, it isn’t cancel worthy. People these days have their expectations far too high, if you can’t be a perfect spotless person, you’ll get mobbed and put out of work. This is awful, I hope project moon can recover from this, especially since they haven’t done anything remotely controversial in the past.
Oh yes, people must be very happy because they fired a woman who did nothing just because of some incels. They already showed that they care more for those guys than for the other players so why not do it?
@@utenafangirl9155 because if you boycott companies this small you will end up hurting the workers too, this could also apply to bigger companies (depending on the scenario). Most of the time you only end up hurting the people at the bottom. I’m not defending the decision kim made, it was not justified, and shouldn’t have happened. But you also have to remember that project moon is very small, if the “protest” gets out of hand, they probably won’t be able to handle it; leaving more people out of a job. My argument is not to defend senseless and unjust decisions, it is to defend the dozens of artists that may be left without work by the end of this. If I misunderstood your comment please let me know, I can delete this if you are not comfortable.
i fully understand and supports what project moon does, do i wish that cg artist got fired? hell no. but not doing so have the risk of limbus company shutdown in Korea and have really real risk of terrorist attack, yes there's case of game company got bombed. I just wish everything end soon and project moon finds another good cg artist and start to work on game again.
It seems a lot of people are very upset that PM submitted to the boycotters demands. People doesn't understand that the boycotters are much closer to PM than you thought. In worst case scenario, death threat and review bombs aren't the only things PM will receive if this continues. It's the same situation with Honkai impact at EN server anniversary when one of Mihoyo CEO got stabbed because their waifus wore bunny suit in an official amv. It's either makes a hard choice or potentially endangers your work place and the people who work with you.
PM didn't got death threat. My English skill is terible. So I can't tell you whole scenario but please don't believe just only one opinion😢 Visitors just waited two hours to require announce of several problem They didn't do any violence or death threat
@@user-xo2pg2yn4w PM has received death threats before, multiple times actually, even before limbus. This isn't the first time PM has to deal with this issue nor it will be their last. Just because they didn't do any violence or death threats now, doesn't mean there won't be in the near future, especially in the video game industry where crunch, death threats, and harassment are very common. Their action shows anything but calm and peaceful.
The gender issue of Korea is very very sensitive and deep. i think other country's people can't understand why koeans are so angry. / Many people think Koreans are upset beacaue of ishmael and singclair's new outfits. but it was tiny point of the problem. / Sorry for my bad English and thank you for your video! 😄
If I would distort I would become Army in Black from all this and really makes me sad with how people doesn’t understand how much PM gotten so much stuff over their last game. And now that their big they need to do stuff so I’m going to guess that they have a lot on their plate so they can barely breathe rn. Even if limbus is now a sinking boat I will sink with it no matter what as it gave me hope
My opinion about this whole "controversy", if you get so irrationally angry because of the changes an update has made, then just stop playing the game and wait until a new update resolves them. Play another game, watch a film, watch a live stream. Spreading misinformation and review bombing is not helpful at all. It is so disappointing that a member in PM got fired over false info.
(sorry i dont speak Korean, but i did translate the message) it does seem to be theres a big cultural difference in understanding of the situation, especially the feminism stuff which people are very for in the west and very against in Korea. I just hope this can clear it up
Actually most Korean players in communities regared opinions about Boatworks Ishimael as taste differences. And they were angry over other problems like uptie 4 costs. But I was shocked because players in other countries see review bombing negatively. This demonstration used to take place on other games in Korea. So I has taken it for granted. Thanks for giving me new perspective.
I really hope we can come back from this. This game and community mean a lot to me. While I dont agree with the director's decision, it was hasty. Theres no need to make the rest of Project Moon suffer. That's what i feel anyways
한국인이라 한글로 글을 남김에 미안함을 표합니다. 프로젝트 문의 공식 입장문이 7월 25일에 나왔다. 개인이 어떤 사상을 가지는것에 대하여 강요하거나 지적을 할 생각은 없으나, 사회적 논란을 일으킬 사상에 대한 내용을 가지고 있는 SNS 계정을 회사와 연관되게끔 하지 말아달라고 모든 직원에게 자주, 누누히 이야기 해왔다는 대표의 말이 있다. 해고당한 아티스트는 해당 내용에 대해 숨긴채 그 SNS 계정으로 회사의 활동을 해왔고, Limbus Company의 엔딩크레딧에서조차 그 SNS 계정을 노출시켰다. 이것은 명백한 회사의 사유를 어긴것에 대한 마땅한 조치이며, 회사에 대해 불명예를 안긴 치욕적인 일이다. 해당 아티스트가 잘린것은 불법이라 이야기들을 많이 하지만 한국의 사회에서 해당 사항은 충분히 해고당할수 있는 사항이다.
I feel bad for the artist getting fired after only such a trivial thing, but i do understand why they were fired, although i just find it somewhat stupid. I understand why the group has been angry over uptie 4 and the changes, but the tipping point being Ishmael's art? That's ridiculous. Not only am i more happy that not only it is realistic for fixing, it actually bends away from the norms of other gacha games and stays true to the PM style. I also find it to be even more cool looking as any form of fan service, so the people complaining on it at DCinside are just being truly silly. I've only recently just settled into PM content so I just hope it continues smoothly, with less controversies caused by basically petty beliefs, so i can truly enjoy this time and world they have created.
Thank you for clearing things up that muddled the water and now let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel is not Meat Lantern waiting for it's prey.
Honestly I can't understand why they would complain at all. Project moon has always gone back and fixed balancing and bugs remarkably fast and they even compensate quite handsomely for it. Going above and beyond in some cases. Leaving it as a complaint is more than enough for them to remedy the situation. Regarding the censorship. I don't think that it can be considered that. From a practical standpoint it's a diver skin. The suit is there with a practical goal in mind. In fact personally I feel it's a little perverted to demand skin where it isn't needed. Something I've found with project moon that I really like is that they aren't overly flashy. Alot of the styles are aesthetically pleasing without the need to show skin at all. While there are examples of some fan service now and then. They even keep lewdness out of the plot. Which for me is a breath of fresh air. They focus on the actual plot and honestly in my opinion it helps the plot stand out more. Project moon is a company that's never failed to impress me. Unlike a triple A company they have even larger consequences for innovation. Yet not one game they have made has been the same style. The art always evolving and feedback always taken. Project moon is one of the few studios that genuinely dare to dream. They always try to come up with something new and compelling without the budget triple A's have. I am generally incredibly critical of the games I play. Often constantly picking up problems and in optimisation cases, I fix them myself. Personally with project moon. I adore their games. Sure it can have balance issues, but I always have faith that they're going to be fixed. In fact one of my biggest gripes at one point was sinking. It became useless on abnormalities and some builds I would consider were shelved. Now it actually has an added effect for those scenarios which give it relevancy. They're not the biggest by a longshot and they still get off their ass to give us as the consumers a lot more love than other companies. What happened was ultimately abhorrent and personally could've done with a lot more etiquette. In conclusion. Project moon good. Give them some love, they go above and beyond and are a gem to us all. Also... Why does my library of ruina heat up my CPU more than full ray tracing ultra graphics cyberpunk >.> Someone please help. My computer is literally melting and I can't find why a card game is pulling such a feat ;-;
Despite being Korean myself, I couldn't tell what was right or wrong. Misinformations are spreading like crazy.. Thank you for the video. It must've been hard work for you.
This whole situation feels like the most forced shit ever coming from the fans, Yes the game is buggy and balance updates are literally beta tests, as expected from a "Small Indie company", I dont mind it because they give responses and feedback within a month if not a week, Does it look "Unprofessional"? Yeah it does, but atleast we get constant feedback and they DO fix things, clearly PM Seems very overworked with how they find themselves pushing back their roadmap and with all these balance and translation issues. That is really, the only actual complaint we can make in regards to the game, the thing about the artist and radical feminism seems extremely forced on part of the extremist members of the community. Antagonizing the people who are making the game YOU LIKE OR WANT TO LIKE seems like a fucking terrible move, it gets their attention sure, but in the worst way possible. PM response seems very extreme, blacking out the community communications like that, but everything exploding around them, I cant even blame them depending on their mental state, if I can assume they are a fairly small team, normally I would say they need thicker skin, but I am unaware on how korean culture deals with shit like this, seeing that it ended up touching on the big no no, I can see how they panicked hard. Just sad man, I just want to see their strange universe grow and enjoy their strategic gameplay
I think the thing most people don't realize as well is that this, from what I remember, is a team of *30 people*. (10 Of which work at HamHamPangPang, but please correct me.) Which is considerably small for a "company", and frankly I would still consider them to technically be "indie" in that sense. They have never done mobile games before as far as I'm aware, so of COURSE the first year of this is all going to be quite rocky still. (Remember, the Limbus launch day was an entire fiasco because so many people wanted to join, and their servers got crashed lmao.) Not to mention, but I'm kind of disappointed in the fact that people were more than willing to jump on misinformation and dogpile before giving it some time and also getting in contact with the Korean playerbase *first*. I understand that these situations are complicated, but good fucking god, it doesn't hurt to wade it out for a little before making a final conclusion, I thought we learned these kinds of values from the games themselves, but, oh well. (Since to be fair, not all people are capable of rational thought when buzzwords are thrown around and anger is spread throughout the community. So I get it, but still, going forward we should try to be better as a community/fandom imo. But maybe that's just me) Frankly, this is also why I didn't want to mention it on my Tumblr and frankly I'm just wading out the storm and only relaying info I find that's more verifiable to my friends. Nonetheless, thank you for actually taking the time TO find said information, and thank you to the people that were distributing the RIGHT information as well, things like that make situations become much more easier to follow and also understand what stance to take and why.
I think I'll make a video in my lingua franca about this too, but my opinion is this. I'm also a Honkai Impact 3rd player, and there was something called a "bunny suit incident". The recipe for disaster was scarily similar, but the results ended up being more extreme, to the point where MiHoYo's CEO almost got assassinated. Back there on that, and right now on this, I'm arriving at the same dumb thought: it only happened because human beings were able to physically walk into the company's building (and it's dumb because companies are being run by people, you can't and don't want to change that). So, to walk into the company's building with the intent of intimidation is wrong, and DCinside have definitely stepped over the line with this.
내가 파악한 정보에 의하면 이런 상황이야 게임 일러스트를 그리던 사람이 과거 트위터에서 페미를 옹호하는듯한 활동이 점차 발견되고 게임 회사는 이것에 대해 해명을 늦게하는 바람에 한국에선 회사가 평소에도 소통을 안 하더니 이번에도 안 하는 거 아니냐는 의심에 점차 분노했고 실제로 몇몇이 본사를 찾아가서 항의를 하자 사태의 심각성을 느낀 회사는 관련된 직원의 계약을 종료했어 여기만 본다면 회사가 개인의 사생활에 침해한 거 같으니까 그다지 좋은 모습은 아니지 그런데 문제가 또 생겼어 한국 페미니스트가 이 사건에 분노하더니 있지도 않은 범죄를 만들고 그걸 해외 사이트까지 공유하고 있어 덕분에 유저들이 평소에 불만을 가졌던 업데이트 문제는 이 페미니스트 사건으로 잊혀졌고 더러운 말 싸움만 남게 된 거야 요약 : 원래 다른 불만도 있었는데 페미 이슈가 기폭제가 됨 근데 사람들이 기폭제만 이야기함
the illustrator's feminist tweet retweet was done when she was a minor and before she joined the pm. This cannot be a violation of company rules. She was also notified of her dismissal by phone at 11 p.m. This is obviously unfair dismissal and illegal.
i don't think most people care about the feminist part but what actually happened. project moon firing the employee really made this whole situation blow over because we on the west weren't expecting some cringeworthy people going to their office and actually making a change, this whole situation feels like project moon doesn't have that much spine after bending over because some people went to their office
I think it's because they're such a relatively small company that people can bully them like that. I can't imagine Nintendo or EA ever feeling as threatened as PW were if they faced the same situation.
Okay, the illustrator *did* retweet and reply to some radfem stuff. That was when she was like 15 or something though, and I know I’ve posted and reblogged dumb things when I was that young, so Iiiiiii dunno whether that was worth firing someone over. Everything else’s spot on though.
If you really played this game you will already known that some IDs is from others character or enemy appear in chapter story. Ishmael is not been CENSORED for sure according from Cinclair's ID cloth is from Rain and Ishmael outfit is from Olga. This game is just start like 20% of it content. I'm sure that in the future when story goes for a little longer when serious situation settle down may be we can get summer and bikini ID. So if you really love this game you already know what to do or not to do. 🤗
I wrote it to help you understand this problem because Korea and other countries have different perceptions of feminists Please refer to this before watching this video Feminists are more extreme in Korea than in other countries The idea of feminism in Korea began in 2010 Feminism at the time brought down vulnerable women's rights (right to women's education, women's free jobs, etc.) And that brings women's human rights to the same level as men's as men Think about it Would a safe country have low women's rights even if women walked on dark roads at night? But by about 2015, feminism changed dramatically compared to other countries This is because feminism was not focused on the improvement of women's human rights, but on the part of female depression, that is, "women are superior to men." One of the best examples of this is the military that women think of Now that Korea is a divided country, adult men go to the army for a year and a half, not a short period of time In the meantime, I give you money, but the amount is very small I get less money from the military than I earn from a part-time job at a convenience store There are also many feminists who take it for granted that soldiers protect their country They say, "What's so hard about eating and sleeping in the army for free?" They call the army a "military vacation" that combines military and hocance, and they write letters mocking soldiers in volunteer activities that force them to sit on the subway or write to them And when people wrote to feminists, "If the army looks so easy, women should go to the army," they wrote on the petition (a communication site run by the Korean government, where a high-ranking person in a country, such as the president or the prime minister, answers directly) Sadly, more than 80 percent of women in their 20s in Korea are now in favor of such extreme feminism Reigning feminism in this situation is a pretty sensitive issue for businesses
@@monte8901 Let me reply for the person above. Both are quite common, but the scariest fact about them is that they are the vocal minority. The guy ahove says that more than 80 percent of women in their 20s favor extreme feminism, but that is not necessarily true. However, the vocal minority DOES impact other women a lot. So to say 'more than 80 percent of women in their 20s favor extreme feminism (over the patriarchal society that has failed, stumbled, and oppressed them), it would be likely true. Due to the extreme measures Radfem and TERFs take, women are oppressed. This is what most of them refer to when we talk about 'women getting oppressed'. Granted, they are not the ones who did it. It is just saddening to see this small minority leave a scar to the society. This whole issue only became big when the illustrator's social media accounts were found and tracked. Those nothing-to-do males found out that she has retweeted tweets that were in the lines of 'all men are sexual offenders'. It is unknown whether she still subscribes to this belief, but this was more than enough to make the male community explode and... here we are now.
My main question is do these people not know what a wetsuit is? The new Ishmael Identity is a dock worker who works on the undersides of ships, of course she wouldn’t be wearing a swimsuit with exposed skin that cold get caught of metal or barnacles.
Man it just really sucks, just really unfortunate, all PM wanted to do was a callback to Ruina for its players about Molar and expand upon things more after Ruina and its guest, gave them new designs and used Olga and Rain as the new side story ID's and those ID's was the last straw, the last excuse needed for that group to use it as a weapon against PM The ID artist, story artist and PM literally did nothing wrong, they just got forced into a really hard place and PM caved into it and fire her for no good reasons at all and and also caused PM to fire an employee without doing the proper procedure. I really do hope, even if its a small chance, that the termination is reverted and she gets her job back.
I think the sentiment of a particular propensity community, that is, the overall spread of Korea, is similar to that of the DC community. Especially if you look here and at the site here, you can see that the Internet is very influential. Perhaps judging only by watching TH-cam on Korean channels will cause more confusion. I think we have to search our own sites and social media to make our own conclusions.
And wherever you go, there are fierce people. What you call "terf" is probably people with violent ideas. (Actually I didn't know much about terf but I looked it up.) However, if you go further, you should know why the idea came about. However, it seems to prevent this and only focus on "feminism" and criticize it. And it is said that most of the people here, most of them believed to be Koreans, were caused only by their aggression toward Korean men. That's what it looks like to me. In fact, it is said that there has been this idea in Korea for a long time, but it did not come to mind at that time. But it suddenly appeared to attack Korean men now? I'll tell you the truth. In this situation, it seems that what they are fighting is not a "feminism," but a situation that they have created.
the most disappointing thing to me is the fact that ProjMoon actually caved under pressure and fired the artist; imagine the cosmic irony of creating a world representing and criticizing the worst of capitalism, where companies are treating their employees as expendable, and then treat one of your own employees as expendable the moment outside pressure is applied
Personally my problem with this is that they explicitly did not translate their reaction into other languages, this reeks of the desire for this to be a “cover up” of some sort, as well as their translated statement saying nothing about the possible contract break that occurred. If they outright said to their international audience “regrettably actions taken by the artist in question are in breach of our contract and we had to let them go” I would hate it but not be as horrifically opposed to it as I am now. Right now this statement reads like a wholesale capitulation to the radicalized elements of the KR community and it’s done with no explanation to the international audience. Given the hardcore critique of capitalism in their games, and the core theme that morality should trump the pursuit of money or power, this entire scandal just makes all the past games leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I recomend to carefully read people comments, since even in reddit the DCinside people are trying to spread misinformation purposely regarding the artist.
The PM didn't verify the idea with a notice, and even if there was such an idea, he told me not to be related, and the illustrator made it related to the associated Twitter account nickname, so it's natural to suspend the contract. I even wrote on the notice that I'm firing as an in-house rule, but I don't know why it's controversial. You know it just by translating. Additionally, Korea is a country with very good security. If physical violence or swear words come out, it will be reported to the police immediately, and even if the police are late, it will arrive in 20 minutes. Really, if there was physical violence in the company, it would have already been on the news.
But it’s called unfair dismissal even many employees from different korean companies agree with this 🥲 [UPDATE: The artist did NOT even write the tweets DCInside found too feminist or “offensive”; she was TAGGED] PM terminated the contract for the tweets she did not even write without thorough investigation. And those tweets were about going against MOLKA-illegally filmed of women and supporting victims. My stand is I can’t support PM when they fire their staff with wrong reasons when it’s so clear worker’s rights are not respected and protected.
@@RhiNyongshe didnt get fired, her contract got terminated, whether PM liked it or not they had to terminate her contract, otherwise they'd be breaking their own rules
@@breadpriest SHE GOT FIRED. It's NOT termination. She - the artist who got fired - had this interview with this huge newspaper company called HanGyerae, PM CALLED her on the 25th at night around 11, told her she is fired and that they will send her documents regarding dismissal within this week or latest by next week. I don't think this was the right, justifiable approach to do it. And PM is just playing with words. Termination on contract for what? The tweets she was tagged on from 5 years ago? Plus, according to the Korean Labor Board, employer CANNOT dismiss employee without a justifiable cause. THINK ABOUT THE FACT: SHE DID NOT EVEN WRITE THAT TWEETS, SHE WAS TAGGED ON. AND HOW TWEETS ABOUT SUPPORTING WOMEN AND AGAINST MOL-KA ARE SOCIAL DISTURBANCE? HOW DOES THIS NEGATIVELLY AFFECT SOCIETY? AND NOW THINK ABOUT THE DATE SHE WAS TAGGED ON. IT WAS 5 YEARS AGO. SHE WAS TAGGED AND THE TWEETS WERE DELETED 5 YEARS BEFORE SHE GOT A JOB AT PM. The artist has done nothing wrong. It's PM. And again, ACCORDING TO THE KOREAN LABOR BOARD, PM violated ARTICLE 23 OF THE LABOR STANDARDS ACT.
I didn't know any of this was happening until I saw your community post about making the vid. My thoughts are - Uptie 4 costs are heavy for investment but could be improved by taking out the personal shards and decreasing the thread required by 25% min. For me since I'm an Ish fan I used all my mats on uptie 4'ing everything she has. - What I don't see people mentioning is how soon her next 000 ID came after the other. I for one usually don't mind as long as I have time to save up, but after using my boxes on Uptie 4 then immediately after finding out about her next 000 ID sucked since it looks so cool and I most likely can't afford it or get it for a long time (plus i don't have a Gregor 000 so I have 400 of his shards waiting...). -Limbus is definitely different from other gacha games in its appeal and it sucks to even hear the "Sinclair isn't wearing a shirt" argument or "Ishmael should have been in a bikini". I mean most dudes don't wear a shirt so imo he's wearing more than most would, and as for Ish cmon minus it being sick and fitting with the character its a rubber bodysuit and my twitters flooded with that cmon coomers.... -IDK the artist, their tweets, etc. so I cant chime in on that front, but I like the ish ID so thats about it for that. Fake tweets, etc. is dumb af imo and most willing to get angry wont check for themselves so losing a job despite the work sucks. Either way IG its PM's choice. -As for dissapointment in the community I felt the same exact way. Keep in mind its not everyone and only the loudest voices are heard, but cmon I feel like (ignoring the issues regarding game mechanics such as heathcliff's ego) this drama just doesn't need to exist. TY for the vid as it helped me understand the scenario.
I know I may be a bit late, I don't really like contriversy either, but, to say the least. I agree with your opinion, we should just stop giving hate and let them take this into their own hands and hope it gets better.
there are a lot of misinformation.. there's some korean fans on twt who helped translate and explain the whole story and mentioning the misinformations..
Thank you for the information and clearing up whats going on with everything as it lessens the pale damage we got yesterday. I hope things can change for the better and this is only a minor bump in a otherwise lovely games history ❤ thanks for everything Welvander! Now shouldn't you be taking your fumo bath right about now?
![More Limbus Company Canto 7 Slander! [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oyybMWupJ3k/mqdefault.jpg)
![So...about Sunshower Heathcliff [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoFvQRXcL0A/mqdefault.jpg)
IMPORTANT: This video is long since OUTDATED and does not accurately represent the situation as it is described here. Instead, if you are looking for information on this controversy or are just curious, I'd recommend watching Tsunul's video on it instead. He is a good friend of mine and has a way more up-to-date narrative of the situation, so go check it out instead!
Link to Tsunul's video: th-cam.com/video/cigpUKl5gtc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Gzaf2hWLYtC6mtfF&t=1657
Before commenting on this video please make sure to:
1. Be respectful of eachother and eachother's opinions. People can have differing opinions and this isn't 4chan.
2. Please do not harass anyone mentioned in the video or actively seek to provoke others. That just isn't cool.
3. Don't spread misinformation and hate speech. I will just delete the comment.
slight clarification, but "TERF" is specifically a term used to refer to *"trans exclusionary* radical feminist" (hence the abbreviation)
as far as I can tell there's nothing about trans people that relates to this group
so people espousing man-hating views (misandry) are best referred to as just "radical feminist" or "radfem" for short, otherwise it will result in severe misunderstanding
that, or use the name of the website group if you want to be specific
The TERF part AFAIK is another tidbit of misinformation, just a buzzword they learnt and now are using.
Because I was asking them before they fired the artist to give me a source or explain and they never said anything about TERFs, right until time passed and suddenly now that's a thing (never sourced btw)
wait, so I have questions. 1) what does storywork artists SPECIFICALLY do? 2)how bad this accident will effect the game?
being a terf is being against illegal filming, my goodness how you like to defend those guys
@@blackm7md244
1.The story artist drew illustrations related to the story according to the position she didn't do anything else (in other words, all the statements that she doing anything else are false)
2.The 5th chapter of the story might be delayed a little bit It is a natural step for Chapter 5 to be postponed to some extent if it is done by hiring a freelancer or replacing another artist
I don't think the damage will be that great
The whole "Boatworks Ishmael design is censored" thing really falls apart when you realize that even the artwork itself implies that she's DIVING UNDERWATER FOR A RATHER LONG TIME.
With this in mind, would you rather:
1) Use a proper outfit for diving and get the job done safely
Or
2) Work in bikini 'cause it's a summer event in a gacha
Think, Mark!
We actually received one of the lewdest Ishmael's ID's, how they've been pissed off I can't understand
@@zatup1chse What do you mean?
@@doodlesyoru2108Diver Fishmael is hot
Tbh, if those people wanted to debate about feminism, try counter them with hypersexualization, because in AK, there's once this case of idiocy where a Genshin player call out to AK community over Goldenglow's design as straight up hypersexualization, compared to Ayato's that has historical value.
That moment, AK players just posted dozens of certainly NOT hypersexualized opeator designs, and even comparing them to Genshin's characters which are bit hypersexualized.
@@doodlesyoru2108 idk about you but I think a skintight diving suit is quite attractive to me.
PM are one of the rare companies that actually listen to their customers and make an attempt to make changes and tweaks for the sake of customer loyalty. I give money to the company not only because their game is fun, but also because I genuinely want to see this company succeed. However, push comes to shove, if enough people alienate the company for minor issues like this enough times, they might just put their foot down, and it’s gonna affect the whole community if so.
What i don't like is people already spreading the misinformation.
Agreed. There’s just so much and I’ll play until something definitive comes out from this and puts me off.
God. It's like seeing a kid gets bullied and being blamed for being bullied.
I mean it's like a kid being bullied because they left their friend after being bullied.
To be fair the artist in question was a former member of Megalia which is a discriminatory group against men.
@@Apollyon.777From what I've read, it's unconfirmed. But who knows with this kind of stuff. I certainly ain't no expert on politics.
@@Apollyon.777also, isn't *former* member worth anything to you? That isn't being fair, it's just excessive. People who, for example, stop being fascist aren't suddenly perfect people just because they stop being assholes but I do think that turning away from old friends and old beliefs takes a lot of courage and you shouldn't be punished for one mistake forever.
@@janzekar6432I don't understand the English grammar of your comment. As a German who is kerning English I would appreciate it if you were to use a more expressive sentence to communicate your point
I'm Lobotomy, and that's Corp. I will never be Ruina and that's not Library. There's no Limbus I'd rather be... Than Company.
wise words
slay queenie slay
Ayoo, that's some banger words
Nobody in korean community took Sinclair choker thing seriously, that was widely regarded as a joke except for maybe 2 or 3 schizos because that is not related to the artist who got fired, she only did storyline artworks, a completely different artist did all ID arts.
It's because the main illustrator was a man, so they decided to target a woman illustrator
@@Siter Basically, they were looking for a target once they realized that the one that originally saw as guilty was no longer viable.
The Sinclair Choker thing was literally the first thing on the printed “manifesto” the guys brought when they went to PM’s office uninvited as “representatives of the community”
@@matteste
they(x)
Some random troll guy hit the jackpot(o)
@@mattestea literal witch hunt. Women always have to be at fault. It’s South Korea’s incels throwing a temper tantrum like gutter trash. Limbus is run by a bunch of weak minded choads that can’t protect their own employees or conduct themselves with any amount of dignity. I’m boycotting everything they do. Can you believe this is 2023?
Since the issue is closely related to gender conflict in Korea, there is a big difference between the news that Korean men say and Korean women say. It seems difficult for English-speaking users to figure out which gender's opinion is right. I hope PM to release a statement that will satisfy many people as soon as possible.
To be fair, I dont even think this is necessarily just gender conflict specific (although that's clearly a big part). The fact its in Korea makes it so much more difficult to have our own opinions on this situation since we don't know much context.
For example, in 99% of situations in a western counties, I would be annoyed at a company for firing an employee for drama like this (hell, I'm of the opinion that what someone says on their social media and the place they work at is separate, new or old opinion be damned). ESPICALLY so suddenly, when there clearly wouldn't have been any proper investigation to whether the allegations are even true (a big gripe against blizzard I have was them firing Kael'Thas's voice actor for allegations that he was STILL in court for, and that he would be later concluded as innocent).
BUT I've heard that Korea fans are notoriously toxic (God bless K-pop stars the poor bastards), and that apparently a bunch of enraged fans were AT Project moons office which would have absolutely been threatening to the staff, that fact makes me a lot more hesitant to look down at project moon for their choice of firing the artist to get heat of their back, even though (from what have found), I think the artist absoulutely didn't deserve it. Because I genuinely don't know what might have happened to the Project moon staff if they didn't.
@blazichaos7181 but actually, none of the staff were threatened... FAKE NEWS BRO
@@blazichaos7181 그리고 그 직원이 해고된 이유도 "회사의 이미지에 악영향을 줄 수 있는 혐오발언등의 언급이 있는 계정을 쓰지 말것" 이라는 회사계약 (말로만 이루어진 계약이 아니라 계약서에서도 명시되어있는 내용입니다 )에 대한 위반이였기 때문이지 단지 페미니스트이기 때문은 아니였어요. 한국 남자에 대한 포괄적인 비하적 발언을 여러번 했다는 정황이 드러난 시점에서 PM이 그 직원을 해고를 한다는 것에서 문제가 될 부분은 없다고 봅니다.
여기서 생각해볼 문제는 굳이 이 사람은 어째서 회사용 트위터계정을 파지 않았는가 입니다.
다시말해 자신의 혐오발언에 대한 반성에 따른 삭제가 아닌 회사에 입사하기 위한 삭제였을수도 있다는거죠.
애시당초에 성별을 가지고 혐오를 하는건 옳지 않다고 생각하는 바 입니다. 그게 남자든 여자든 간에 말입니다.
한국의 페미니스트는 크게 MEGALIAN 이라 불리는 소속하에 두 종류로 나뉘는데 온건파와 강경파로 나뉩니다. 이중 강경파가 주권을 쥐고 있는데 WOMAD라고 파생된 집단이 이를 대표합니다. 이들은 극우, 극좌 성향을 동시에 띄며 '4chan'이나 한국의 '일베' 보다 짙고 어두운 형태를 띄곤 합니다. 불운한 인생끝에 자살한 남성의 이름을 따서 조롱하는등 윤리적으로 올바르지 못한 일을 자행하고 있죠. 뿐만 아니라 파시즘적인 성격을 띄기도 합니다. 해외에서의 일반적인 남녀평등을 위한 페미니즘이 아닌 여성우월주의의 페미니즘을 지향하는 바라는 모습에서 라던가 남자라면 노인부터 어린이, 심지어 가족마저도 혐오하자는 성향을 보인다는 점에서 파시즘적인 성향이 크다는 걸 보여주며 이는 대통령 취임당시 임신 파업이라는 참 특이한 형태의 모습으로 해외 언론에 드러난 적도 있습니다. 이전부터 임신의 여부는 의무가 아니라 권리였는데 말이죠.
아니고서야 한국의 출산률이 0.73까지 떨어질 이유가 없지 않겠습니까? ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
(물론 해외언론은 정부의 여성에 대한 대우에 있어 잘못이 크다고 보도했지만, 사실 극좌의 성격을 띄는 이들이 쓴 정치적인 갈등이 표현된 글에 불과합니다..)
이렇기 때문에 한국에서 남녀평등이 이루어지기 위해선 WOMAD 와도 많이 엮여있는 정부산하부서인 '여성가족부'를 폐지하고 새로운 부서를 만들고자 이번 정부가 나선것이였지만 해외언론에 의해 실패한것 같더군요. 엠네스티가 부디 제대로 파악하고 광고를 진행했으면 하는 바 입니다...
영어에 능숙하지 못해 모국어를 사용해서 좀 더 정확한 표현으로 전달하지 못한점이 아쉽지만, 부디 저의 내용이 잘 전달되었으면 하네요 :D
I think we should follow Mick Gordon's advice to seriously think twice about boycotting. Yes, Kim's decision isn't unanimously agreeable, but boycotting the whole studio and not supporting the multitudes of others who had nothing to do with it, such as other artists, writers, VAs, EIM, and Mili, simply because of ONE person's decision is a bit silly to me. I will still keep up with the game and occasionally spending money on it for their sake. Hopefully we can all learn something from this. It truly was a lose lose for Kim, and I am kind of lost on how to feel. I respect any and all reactions, whether they agree with me or not. Take care everyone.
I love how you put Mili as an entirely separate category instead of including them with artists
Mili is god
mili doesnt deserve that
the people who've done work for the game were already paid. by that logic, no one should ever boycott any company, because you could potentially hurt any of their workers. and that sounds even more silly.
@@Redheart709 I suppose you have a point, though my logic was that since this game is gonna be in development for a while, obviously the flow of money to the others aside from Kim still needs to happen
I'm so sad with this situation. While i don't agree with their decision, i understand why they decided to fire the artist. PM don't deserve all the hate they are receiving, i hope they can change their decision and face the fear and build the future once again.
unfortunately all options PM could've taken were bad. its either to anger the korean community or a big part of the foreign community sadly enough, but hopefully with this video more people will understand!
@@Welvader I've seen many Koreans on X corp and Reddit that don't agree with PM's decision, especially artists, some of them even decided to leave the fandom sadly... That's why I think PM can find a way to resolve this, even if that make some part of the KR community angry, I really hope PM can overcome this problem
Make the City great again!
@@zatup1chse #TheCityMustSurvive
@@Kromergamer #TheCityMustNotFall
I wish none of this had to happen. And it's all happening because people have to dig up stuff from your past for no reason. I guess growing past something or even handling your own opinions properly is not allowed by the internet. People just never change in the eyes of certain social media.
I'm cheering on for PM and i hope the artist manages to either come back or find a decent job. This all is ridiculous.
What even is going on im just foaming in the mouth gathering uptier materials rn
To put a very long story short, dissatisfaction in a part of the korean fandom over recent changes, which led to controversy about one of the artists and them being fired because of it. I have put a detailed timeline of events in the description if you wish to know what's been happening over the last few days!
You'll see, it's better to get an explanation in 4 hours than from a random comment.
Something something sonething... Korean politics...
gonna copy and paste a thing i wrote about it rn:
Basically from what I’ve gathered, here’s a rough and most likely inaccurate thing but yea: due the the summer event not having fan service disgruntled Korean players somehow got the idea one of the artist was a radical feminist holding PM and the fan service hostage. They tried harassing the main artist who did the Ishmael summer portrait but they found out the artist was male so he couldn’t be a feminist. Well someone still has to be blamed so they looked to the other main artist whose name I forgot, look in Twitter (where all this is going down), they do the story cutscene art and stuff. The harassers found the artist was female which was enough for them to try and dig up anything possible to prove their a radical feminist holding the fan service hostage. They eventually dug up (a) 3-5 year old retweet(s) of a post which can be possibly loosely linked to feminism. This (and other bull evidence like Yi sang holding a ampule being similar to the logo of the feminist group) was enough for the disgruntled kr players to start a harassment campaign against the artist and PM. The players review bombed, showed up to the HQ, etc. PM being bad with backlash terminated the artist shortly after, citing they broke a rule which said they had to delete all controversial posts on social media accounts (some say the artist already did, not too sure about it). However a immediate termination was too harsh for everyone else, also the fact the harassers were a vocal minority. The termination was heavily disliked by the community. Now everything PM related is unstable, the games future with a loss of a key artist, PR as a whole, the community, etc. that’s where we are at the time of making this.
notes:
-there is misinformation going around that the message was linked to a radical feminism group, it is not.
Also they nuked the discord server for a few days
거짓정보를 정정하고 다리가 되어주셔서 정말 감사합니다.
경거망동 하지말고, PM의 다음 공지를 기다립시다.
Thank you so much for correcting false information and being a bridge.
Don't be hasty, let's wait for the next PM announcement.
Man i just want everyone to get along. Pain is unavoidable but suffering isnt. I have full hope in PM
This is just like the Pianist Incident, except we're all distorting
@@Welvader so whose gona be our argalia
"Will to stand up and fight"
Worst case scenario to everything, PM's fall will follows that of Lobotomy Corporation.
@@areszeudion5153"begin of library"
Sigh, i just want to play my limbus gacha dammit
Thanks for summerizing the whole situation. I don't blame project moon or the artist and i hope the best for them. I hope that the firing was at least cordial and with a certain degree of understanding from both sides. I hope that this doesn't have any lasting negative impact on PM or the artist, i truly wish them the best
Fuck those people that dug it up and forced PM hands tho, there is a special place in hell for these kinds of people
Same
The firing sadly most definitely wasn't cordial. We have a report from a korean news outlet that Vellmoor was fired at 11 PM over a phone call. Which apparently is illegal in Korea? (Don't know if the whole 'will give you letters for being fired later holds up at all in Korean court)
@@alphonsearthurs8910 and with that, my hearth shrunk 3 times smaller.
@@slyfurgospel2749 don't worry, the article lied and they edited it. She was called about it but not fired yet.
Korea society is very wierd and strange in both ways so it is best not to take a step into this debate or you will be forces to take sides...
In korea, a voice actor was fired because he posted a tweet publicizing a drama he dubbed. The drama was made him japan and was about japanese pornography profession, protagonist becoming X-rated film director. Even though the only things he said were "the acting was good", "I did my best in voice acting", "the drama is x-rated and the main theme might be polarizing, so take caution in watching", people tweeted that "he agrees in female exploit"(in korea any form of excessive female lewdity is called female exploit and any male involved form director, actor to customer is blamed for forcing females into such act. even cartoonist is blamed blamed for drawing characters too sexy(fans if the cartoonist is female)). Tweeter users even spread false rumers like "the voice actor cheated his wife", and ignored all other opinions saying "are you male?"(the game was made for female users and almose no males were playing it). The voice actor was fired five days later.
The game company decided to hire a voice actor named "Kang Min Gyun", but people dug is tweeter account and found a tweet saying that he does not support TURFs 11 years ago. He was fired because of it.
The korean society is spining in a strange and terrifying axis, and it is not your duty to fix it. It will be just best for you to ignore everything, say nothing and enjoy UMIDA. OPEN THE SERVER PMOON!!!!!!
They got Sloshmael and Scubmael, ain't no way that wasn't enough for them.
In any case, I hope that this doesn't have too big of an impact on PM and the community, and that there is a way for the artist to come back, because I liked the CGs.
Star star heart heart heart.
I have heard people that are very disappointed or mad because PM submitted to the boycotters demands. While I am disappointed that the artist was fired, the reason for it lies on the small and rabid people that saw politics were there wasn't any. The company was basically backed up to a wall by these people that wanted a swimsuit ID and to remove Sinclair's IDs chocker. I just hope that the community and company can recover from this.
Yeah exactly, i think people should look at the source of the problem and not the problem itself. Also the doubling down tweets about the artist turned out to be false so theres a realistic chance she could be hired back if korean society would allow that
I think that PM is just trying to defend their employees at that moment because there were death threats. People tends to forget that PM is just a company of about 30 people ain’t no way they protection like triple A games company
So while firing the artist is a shame it is still understandable why they did it.
@@Welvaderoof, I hope she gets hired back cause her art was fenomenal and she doesn't deserve all the hate she got...
@@koharuhomura709They never went to PM headquarters to threaten murder. I don't know who spread this crazy false information as someone who has seen the process firsthand. People who went there recently went to get answers directly from PM's staff about a number of problematic behavior in the game, and they actually had a two-hour meeting and got answers to themselves.
Please don't spread false information.
(There may be some awkwardness because some translators were used.)
@@성이름-g3s2z but still the death threats were there and between someone being injured for real and firing someone, it is still reasonable for them to make that decision.
I feel for everyone involved. Hope PM and the CG artist recover from this swiftly.
I particularly loved those scenes in the story pieces, hard to think of them just replacing it without affecting the quality or feel to it.
True, they have this sort of comical yet realistic charm in them that makes me wish they made a book of it.
@@areszeudion5153 Same, I would've loved if they released a digital artbook or something like that with all the art... well, hard to imagine that now. Goddamnit.
@@LaRavachole Personally it also worries me since the artist also partakes in the art creation for Leviathan, you know the CG's for certain scenes, like Black Silence, the Monsieur, Yujin, and etc. I hope Leviathan still continues.
@@areszeudion5153 ? bro leviathan is done, has been for a while, and the artist who got fired isn't the one who did the pictures for the novel part
@@muffinssupreme84 ...Oh, I didn't know that, also done as in Yujin distorting only? Or is there another chapter I'm not aware of?
Thanks for the video, so sad to see the way things turned out. There really was no option they could've taken once the cat was out of the bag so to speak, they were bound to take a hit to their reputation regardless of what the outcome of their actions was....
I just wish with all my heart not only PM but the community can come out of this stronger than ever. I know that's going to be hard as there's already plenty of artists saying they're leaving the fan community and artists and content creators are one of if not, the most important backbones of a community.
There's just too much misinformation coming from the KR side trying to disguise themselves to make an accurate assessment of the full situation, so just holding out for a better tomorrow is all I can do for now...
For my fellow PM fans, stay strong, you don't have to feel the need take action but even if you need a short break from PM that's fine too. All i ask is that everyonat at least give PM a chance to explain themselves rather than relying on all these second hand account to finalize your decision on whether you're moving on or staying.
I won't go into details because there are alot of people (like Welvader) whos already said whats needed to be said.
I will say that however you want to feel about the game or if you feel uncomfortable about the whole situation. Don't let it affect how you enjoy limbus company.
It's your own experience and i wouldn't want people to feel discourage from the whole drama. Play and support the game however you feel like it.
Since I am a Korean game user, I am trying to convey information that I can know.
I am using translator. There may be errors. sorry
I will briefly write about the background of this incident.
In the past, many Korean mobile and online games, such as Limbus Company, suffered a huge hit in sales for similar reasons.
Because of this, the Korean game industry is particularly sensitive to individual activities that may cause social controversy, and even dismissal of employees who have caused controversy is possible.
For reference, even if the illustrator who suffered damage caused other social controversies rather than his past Redfem activity history, the company would suffer great damage and even consider dismissal.
In foreign countries, you may think that individual employee thoughts and dismissal are not related, but in Korean culture, users tend to look badly if an employee has thoughts or actions that cause social controversy even if they do not directly harm the company. Also, because of the employee, there is a significant hit to sales.
Therefore, Korean employees deleted their social network accounts or acted anonymously before joining the company, and the illustrator at the center of this case put his Twitter account in the ending credits, so users confirmed this and a problem occurred.
No, that’s not what happened. Incels threw a fit over the character design of the female not being naked enough. Incels went after the character designer, found out it’s a male who kept the character “conservatively dressed” and then pressured Limbus to instead fire a female employee. They argued that she was a radical feminist who pressured her male colleague into keeping the character “covered up.” Limbus did fire her for “posting controversial things.” The employee they fired is a female storyboard artist, she didn’t even design characters. Incels used an archive to go back and look at this female employee’s social media profile post by post. The incriminating post they found was that the female employee reposting support to end the illegal filming of women in hotel and mall bathrooms. This is a huge problem in South Korea due to perverted men who want to spy on women. It is illegal to film women genitals in bathroom stalls. Apparently incels in SK have a huge fetish for feces and urine, as well as voyeurism. Their goal is to make women feel unsafe. So they said the female employee was a radical feminist and pressured limbus to fire her. This is not a radical feminist stance. This isn’t a controversial thing to outlaw. It is already illegal in South Korea. The female employee was fired anyway… Her account had been deleted for over 5 years. The post she retweeted was from before Limbus even existed as a company. Limbus is run by weak minded choads. You cannot excuse their misogyny. Limbus lost its dignity. And limbus lost me for life. Fuck Limbus.
It's quite sad to see this situation. This fandom has always been small, but pretty close-knit. Of course, like any fandom, there have been individuals, but then again, everyone has that to a greater or lesser extent. And, I sincerely hope that in time the whole situation will get better and even this artist can get back on track.
Because let's face it - the visuals of the game and characters are excellent. And yes, it's okay from a story standpoint, for Ishi - working underwater, she needs something to protect her normally. Emil on the other hand looks great, he's a mechanic, he tries to work openly in the heat, and his choker is for beauty, not because of "deep meaning".
Stay calm in peace, Glory to Project Moon!
They could've kept the black tee and mechanic overalls that the base art has for the boatworks ID
Both sides are going too extreme. I agree. PM doesn't deserve this hate. While I agree that firing artist may be a hasty decision, if the company policy said so, nothing could be done.
There are actually more drama into it, but I am glad that this video doesn't mistaken those peaceful protestors "racists wolf," or something like that. (Yes it's a direct quote from someone in Twitter.)
It's hard to explain why S. Koreans are so sensitive about "radical feminists," or why many of the Korean community have bad relationship with Twitter fandoms. Those very complicated stuff to explain without any controversy, so I won't explain in here.
Thank you Welvader. It was sad to see many people being mislead by countless misinformation floating around the internet.
That is exact my point I said in a post on the remaining Limbus subreddit, citing thousands of reasons of why something could have happened and why people thinking that the sole "Complaint" of the people from DCInside made them fire the artist instead of the fact that what was brought into light that did so (even if the clasule is a bit crappy) were thinking too hastily. But what happened? I got many people crapping on PM and saying that I did X or Y, I got many people assuming even more things, when I delivered reasons of why things could have happened in a way that does not mean PM is mysongynistic, people just took the possibility I said over their heads and made even more assumptions treating these assumptions of them as facts.
It is an awful situation, but honestly, I think we started to get people in this drama that care more about taking sides in the drama and stirring the pot than playing the god damn game, I think both sides got people that didn't even care about the game talking about it due the drama and making it a way bigger thing than what the PM announcement was
I just hope that this will pass and everyone will just be happy with the event and the game. Personally i don't care about this contraversy just wanna enjoy the game in peace
The "racist wolves" was because DCinside does have a very long story of racism, including those people involved in this.
Isn't the racist wolf thing came from a dev that doesn't know anything about it and just wants to add fuel to the fire?
"Both sides are going too extreme."
Oh yeah, threatening employees, getting the artist fired, crying because an outfit wasn't too "sexy", review bombing and going to the office is just as bad as getting mad because someone got fired for no reason.
And radical feminism is being against filming without consent?
An incel defending incels, how strange
Korean here. Swimsuit was like the lastest thing we wanted. Not sure where these 'Korean people are attacking PM for swimsuit' came from...
Here is, for least, what the majority of us were about.
Going back to the MD2 Hard release date, we were hugely dissatisfied with MD2 Hard. We thought it was uncreative and simply raising difficulty through numbers. People expected a more gimmicky yet fun experience.
After that, the Uptie 4 update happened. We first were happy, but later when we found out about the flaws, extreme thread cost and stuff that basically ruined some identities, (Most famous being the talisman) our dissatisfaction grew.
Alongside, most of us thought Representation Emitter nerf was too much, and Uptie 4 didn't help fixing it.
The dissatisfaction grew even more when we found out about the Offence/Defence system nerfing some identities. Despite PM mentioning 'ensure that the experience does not change too sharply', it did for One Who Grip Faust and many other identities.
After that, we also found out the error with Bodysack. At this point, the community was at its angry state with repeated mistakes and errors.
For least, we expected some more announcements to be made with all of these issues. Yet it took 4 days for the problem to be even mentioned in the first place.
On July 24th, after a 4 day wait, the PM finally gave their answer. Yet only the Bodysack and Offence/Defence system was fixed, and the rest remained near abandoned.
People slowly couldn't trust the PM with how much error they make recently, and thought it was more likely that they would repeat such a mistake. Therefore, people expected the next announcement to address more issues and apologies.
And then, boat fixer Ishmael and Sinclair teaser was dropped. This became the flint that started this fire.
People felt betrayed, and thought the PM simply abandoned and ignored all the problems that happened in recent updates.
The Sinner Rotation made a lot of people angered too. Whilst we expected a new Gregor/Faust personality, they gave it to Ishmael.
Community ravaged, and people brought up underlying problems that Limbus had since its release, such as 'Lack of testing', 'Unfriendly tutorial' and so on.
It's obvious that this anger usually turns irrational. And yes, swimsuit were also brought up during this irrational state.
Problem is, this was the time when people started review-bombing the game, and so the whole flame spread to other communities. I think this was the time when people thought Korean gamers demand swimsuits, whilst it being a rather controversial opinion even in the Korean community and made when the community is completely out of control and is blind from rage.
It's not the problem of the art nor the character itself, but the majority just raged about the teaser itself and it felt like the PM is ignoring such problems.
Ah i see, thank you for clarifying the situation! It really means a lot to see a lot of Korean people coming in and speaking about the situation from their perspective!
The main thing I don’t understand is why people were so impatient. PM usually releases a statement every week and even then these are very big changes which would need way more time than usual to address.
Another thing that really pisses me off is that if the community really wanted issues related to the game to be fixed, then why the hell would you go after an artist. I understand that feminism is a hot topic in S Korea, but making fake tweets and fanning the fire takes away most of the actual message.
Yes PMoon will release a statement soon, but they would’ve anyways if the community had just given minor criticism. But now the game has been review bombed to hell, the fandom has been thrown into chaos, and worst of all you have the twitter vultures stirring the pot when they don’t even know what a Library of Ruina is. I even found an SJW with twitter blue tweeting to boycott PM even though they’ve never played the game. God forbid some petty influencer tries to get some clout from this.
And all this is hurting the game that we all want to see prosper for the stupidest reasons. Now when people learn about Limbus Company or any other of PM’s games, they’ll get the wrong idea and this that PM is some shitty pandering company or something like that, which puts off many players.
Overall, that toxic side of the Korean community better have a written apology ready because right now they’ve ruined it for everyone.
@@googleslides8305like he says, the swimsuit thing came during the raging period
And you know, when people are mad they tend to be really irrational
and I agree that things such as this, the last thing you want to let people know is at twitter, been seeing quite a lot of vultures too in the comments
@@googleslides8305 It's slightly different. This would definitely be true if the game wasn't live-service gacha game. For such thing as bodysack issue, some players have no idea that there is error and simply proceed with the uptie.
Frankly speaking, it's kind of a scam. Such things shouldn't take around 4 days to be fixed. Thankfully PM returned the resources that were used for such issue, but this is, something that not the user should have patience, but more of the game company need to take action faster.
No. If it was really about the game issues then why would people show up at PM's office with a manifesto to point out how the artist is a "feminist" and attempt to get her fired. They found out the ID artist was a man so they had to scour to find a new target, the CG artist. It was all about Ishmael not being in a bikini
Feel so bad for PM rn, they're pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place, with the Korean community clamouring and threatening violence, and getting labeled cowards by some of the western community. Yeah, they're not entirely blameless here, but they're a pretty small company, and you can't expect them to magically make the best decision 100% of the time. I just hope PM can pull through without too much trouble and keep doing what they do best.
Yeah its definitely a tough situation, especially when looking at the femenism situation because Korea and overseas community has complete opposite views of the situation, so whatever option is chosen it is bound to offend one of the two at least. Just hope people will be understanding and forgive PM for it
@@WelvaderI wish they can move bases to elsewhere since if they keep getting people who would threaten a employee then they should move somewhere safer
I really dislike western community calling them cowards or saying they "Bent the knee"
To my knowledge there was a similar situation in the past where PM said they will deal with employees who would have past that could lead to controversies/extremism
Albeit I heard it during last few days from alleged Korean community as I am rather recent PMoon games enjoyer
@@cooldog2636 Contrary to popular belief actually there have been no verifications of physical violence or yelling, from the sources I've read the discussion went down very peacefully. You can find some sources about it in the description!
@@Welvaderhile the people that went to discuss stuff at the PM office don’t seem to have made threats the group they belonged to were making threats before during the entire review bombing process. Citing KyoAni, and most likely sending death threats to PM’s email accounts. I say “most likely” because while there isn’t any proof about this in this instance the same thing happened previously during other review bomb incidents especially during ruina with email death threats being sent and I doubt the methods would change.
A lot of people are saying this but it’s getting misconstrued as “they went to the office and physically threatened them” leading to the KR players defending their side by saying that no threats were made or else police would’ve been called. There were no in person threats, but if people belonging to a group that’s been calling for the death of your employees and the burning of your office suddenly drop in unannounced the threat is naturally implied. I don’t know if this actually influenced PMs decision of firing the artist after very little time of deliberation but it should be made clear. There’s also the fact that PM directly asks to not send any more threats to them or their associates in their apology announcement.
I feel like people are overracting too much and is taking PM's kindness as an advantage. They've been spoiled with so much free stuff that I feel like they are making demands rather than communicating feedback
definitely, and its also something i worry about in the video when i state that it could happen again if people are mildly angry over a new update. I wish to change the community for the better and make us more friendly towards PM! because sadly they've been forced into a corner by this
I feel the same way but with the community shutdown on the discord.
To me its just talking/controversy that will get corrected over time, I'm more interested in the gameplay and what people think of new content such as new IDs and such. I think its pretty boring to talk about one thing for more than 24hrs and will change as soon as the new event hits.
Opting to silence everyone is a pretty hard-handed move and probably now disturbs people who are used to freely communicating. I think that made the situation worse and makes people find other media to communicate or spread their thoughts/dissatisfaction but now everywhere and not in a close environment. Even just sharing the news that the community discord got shutdown I got faced with a 'warning' for drama, which my intentions were to notify like "Oh server got shutdown". Makes me realize they're so sensitive, emotional and trigger-happy to even observe, consider, and make the appropriate decision. Could make the argument that's the best initial plan they had to control the situation, but personally for me, I'm a bit annoyed.
I think this experience makes me have a negative lasting view on the community mods. The players and gameplay though, are great. We're still talking about MD2 hard bull and how they'd love to smell sweaty Ishmael. Not me though, definitely not. Cough* Cough*
@@OnionJuiceEnjoyerthe real reason why the pm community discord was shut down is because people are spreading misinformation like wildfire to the point is overwhelming to the mods and fans. It's a mass distortion
I appreciate you taking the time to talk to people and collect sources instead of just giving a quick take. After all this was a lose-lose situation.
I just started playing limbus company 2 days ago, so far enjoying it, I hope the drama will be resolved soon, since I don't understand most of it
Heres my timeline of events:
so the Chinese and Koreans were really unhappy about the state of the game
the Chinese acted first and protested the high uptie4 costs of the game, review bombing it
after Pmoon announced the umida event
The Korean side(especially the DcInside forums) was unhappy about the state of the game and started review bombing the game citing numerous issues like the stealth nerf to the offence level of certain identities, the unsatisfying uptie4 update and the heavy nerf to base egos like Faust's Representation Emitter
One of the issues highlighted was that the Sinclair's ID was very fanservicey to females, but more than that, the ID had a collar which they thought heavily connected to radical feminism
Radical Feminism is a very hot button topic in Korea and apparently has ruined several game properties and has caused numerous controversies(according to them) so they wanted it addressed immediately but no answers came from Pmoon for quite a while
After digging further, many Koreans discovered that one of the artists had alleged heavy connections to radical feminism and it became an even more urgent situation. Some of the Cgs that the artist did heavily eluded to radical feminist symbols(they thought)
Peaceful protestors went to Pmoon office and stood outside to attempt to meet the staff/director for some changes which made Pmoon have an emergency meeting with them.
In which the director planned to address the situation at 12am Korean time
It is heavily implied by Project Moon that the artist broke some part of the contract that related to causing controversy
But for now I do not have any evidence to bring up to support such a thing.
edit: I do not have 100% proof that the artist had connections to radical feminism but the koreans thought that
That is mostly correct and aligns with what I had for the video, so just about! beware of misinformation though!
This is pretty much it. I would just precise that the "feminist" hand sign is basically a meme on par with the "racism symbolism" of the OK hand sign.
There is any proof of the radical group? From what i saw there is plenty of proof that this wasnt the case, while close to no proof affirming it
Extremely based korean fanbase.
Coming in person to talk it out is great.
Is there any proof that the CG artist was a radical feminist ?
(I used a translator)
Thank you for catching all the misinformation spread.
I'm so sad that the game I used to enjoy suddenly became like this.
Thank you for making the video.
does it mean we get 300 lunacy?
Probably a lot more, but it remains to be seen how the situations pans out, because it turns out some key points the community thought was true turned out to be completely false, so its very unclear which decisions PM could take are morally right. But that could be its own entire video to be honest, this just covers the context and basics for people interested!
So much misinformation is being spread, it's so hard to know what's really happening now. All I want is to be able to play some limbus :/
Thank you so much for the overview and summary of the video Welvader
well at least tomorrow is the event let's just wait for that
Good work on this video! It's informative and also unbiased, being understanding to both sides. Thank you for covering this so well!
Ngl, this whole thing reminds me back in 2018 when Girl's Frontline developer, Team Mica, fired the artist of K7 because of her associations with Megalia and spouting anti-men slurs on Twitter that ended with K7 being scrapped and never be released on the game alongside K5.
The main thing I don’t understand is why people were so impatient. PM usually releases a statement every week and even then these are very big changes which would need way more time than usual to address.
Another thing that really pisses me off is that if the community really wanted issues related to the game to be fixed, then why the hell would you go after an artist. I understand that feminism is a hot topic in S Korea, but making fake tweets and fanning the fire takes away most of the actual message.
Yes PMoon will release a statement soon, but they would’ve anyways if the community had just given minor criticism. But now the game has been review bombed to hell, the fandom has been thrown into chaos, and worst of all you have the twitter vultures stirring the pot when they don’t even know what a Library of Ruina is. I even found an SJW with twitter blue tweeting to boycott PM even though they’ve never played the game. God forbid some petty influencer tries to get some clout from this.
And all this is hurting the game that we all want to see prosper for the stupidest reasons. Now when people learn about Limbus Company or any other of PM’s games, they’ll get the wrong idea and this that PM is some shitty pandering company or something like that, which puts off many players.
Overall, that toxic side of the Korean community better have a written apology ready because right now they’ve ruined it for everyone.
Seeing this video and comments underneath it made me feel more at peace, I agree with many of the people saying that it was all lose-lose situation and that it isn't fully PM's fault. It all took a pretty nasty toll on me, seeing how many people around me on Twitter declared that they will be leaving fandom, so it's good to see people who don't share this idea
Hey dude, you’re not alone.
Also, people should stop about 'now they are attacking someone else stuff'. Cuz they aren't. No one in the community started this drama is attacking elsewhere.
Some more information about the issue. All of the timeline is based on Korean time, and sorry for my poor English.
1:11 The one who actually start the rumor that "Project Moon hires TERF, and new Ishmael & Sinclair's 4.5 ID proves it." was troll. Happened on Friday, right after the release of the teaser.
1:13 However, another gamer found out the famous symbol of TERF comunity in Korea, in the illustration of Ch4. (The image that Isang holding the sample given by Dongrang) Happened on Saturday.
1:21 Furthermore, gamers found out the 'deleted tweets' of story illustrator, depends on his/her nickname written in Ch4 Ending credit. Now it is confirmed the illustrator is TERF. Happened on Sunday. The negative reviews are written from here.
2:03 They sent an E-mail to PM,(Fortunately, it doesn't contain any kind of bad words or threat.) but since PM do not read it(Becuase the director was in Japan for some business issues), some of them went to the company building and had talk with employees.(Fortunately again, there wasn't any kind of threat or violence.) Happened on Monday.
Director heard about the issue from other employees, and make an announcement for Korean only in a rush. It contains about the issues of gameplay (like the E.G.O. lotation) that Korean gamers mentioned, and mentioned PM will not extend the contract with the TERF illustrator (So he/she can work until the contract ends, which means until Ch 4.5 ends, and can receive all money mentioned in contract.) Happened on Tue-Wed midnight.
The negative reviews of Korean 4chan are replaced with positive one.
That's all.
I keep seeing the word TERF thrown around, but I believe that's inaccurate. "TERF" refers to a specific subset of radical feminism that focuses on demeaning the identities of transgender individuals. The "TE" stands for "Trans-Exclusionary". Using the word TERF to refer to the artist might cause some people to draw different conclusions than they would otherwise, due to the connotations it has over here.
@@velvetphi Since the illustrator do not express her opinion after the issue, so we do not 'officially' know he/she is TERF now. However, the symbol that he/she drew is the one for TERF community in Korea. Yes, that TERF you said.
"The image that Isang holding the sample given by Dongrang" this point is quite a massive reach.
Also, May I have the source for those "delete tweets' ?
@@user-wandererRed From what I have seen, it is a symbol associated with radical feminism in general, not just TERF feminists. It would obviously also be used by people following TERF ideology, but not exclusively- all TERFs are radical feminists, but not all radical feminists are TERFs. It's not a major distinction, but I still think it's important to make.
@@suspiciouslurker3826 Gosh TH-cam is deleting links again. How can I give you a link without censorship or something?
Damn, I've been entirely mislead from what I've gathered so far.
From what I heard, I thought there were people fighting over Ishmael, either because she was being oversexualized compared to typical PM fare and thus the game was turning into NIKKE, or people were thirsting over her so hard people were instantly disgusted with the community over it (Which would've been rich, since the way they talk about Sinclair makes Kromer look like the least down bad person on the continent, so I figured that the alternate universe where Ish was a dude had no issues whatsoever.) And something about one of the Dev team being a radical feminist, which I think is bull, because I've heard the Korean feminist scene is a lot more... extreme than it is in the west, so being radical by their standards means you're probably not gonna have the message go over your head. Or, she is one of the rare human beings who can have an opinion and not immediately aggressively insert it into everything they present to others, in which case she deserves a medal and a new car.
With my PATENTLY WRONG, MISINFORMED AND ESOTERIC TO THE POINT OF USELESSNESS OPINION out of the way, I'm very worried about how PM's gonna recover from this. That's a head artist suddenly thrown out, and a PR disaster that presumably looks much worse from their perspective than it does ours, so their reaction and the future is looking very grim. Frankly, I'm metaphorically hovering over my seat ready to leave, but I would really rather not. I like the game, the lore behind it, the characters, etc. and already invested into it somewhat, so jumping ship would feel awful... but if things go bad, I just gotta accept the scope's moved beyond my personal tolerances and leave.
As an aside, did whoever come up with the concept of Gacha find it in a haunted mass grave or a bloody summoning circle or something? 'cause between Genshin having a new controversy every month, this and who knows what else, it feels like the genre just attracts misfortune and viciousness like very little else. It almost feels like PM would be more stable and lucky if they expanded into a conglomerate of hanghang pangpangs instead. asking humans to roll for characters outright curses you.
The whole situation was definitely very overblown i think most can agree yeah, here's to hope this video clarifies a lot of the things regarding it!
@@Welvader It's enough to make a man yearn for a comeback of the good old ways: Person with the highest upvotes of opinion A and Opinion B, knife fight outside the Bongy chicken. Last one with 65% of their skin remaining gets to decide the fate of whoever's the subject of the controversy.
@@kielbasamageTrial by Combat is very appealing...
What i hate is not the whole drama or anything, hell or even the review bomb. Is that the artist got fired (or in my word "sacrificed") To please the pricks. She already grown out of it and the tweets are actually 3 years old and doesn't reflect what her standing is today. This kind of Stuff makes me livid
@@slyfurgospel2749 the culture of “You said X or Y ten years ago and I dug it up, prepare for FIVE HUNDRED YEARS IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR” and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Honestly, thank you so much for making this video.
Im not particularly familiar with Limbus Company but i was contemplating getting into it. However, I was introduced to this drama from someone I follow on twitter posting a tweet about it.
I was disappointed, and I was even a little upset because I felt morally obligated not to get into the game.
However, now that ive seen your video, i actually feel like i can get into the game without having any issues about it.
Again, thank you so much for shedding some light on the situation.
PM made the wrong decision firing the artist because of fake screen shot
Also, I havent found any reliabole evidence that the artist was a radical feminist in the past or that she breached the contract so if anyone have any infomation on that, it would be helpful to share it.
Thanks for the summary although i already knew something about it but being there a lot of misinformation, things that got lost in translation and people sending their biased version of the thing, it isn't easy distinguishing true from false and so it's very appreciated. Sincerely when i heard it i was shocked and was tempted to leave the game, but after thinking about it i think while it's still bad the artist was fired, it's just too easy to point the finger and say "to ignore the incels" while we can see the thing only from a limited point of view, also cause the situation to me is very delicate and who knows what could have happened if they were ignored. Plus people often forget a developer isn't made of only one person, so by putting all the blame to PM you're unfairly putting the guilt to workers that maybe didn't even agree on the decision. Plus i mean it's a lose-lose situation, whether they fired her or not there would have been negative consequences for them. While i'm sad i decided to stay, i love the game and i think we shouldn't just rush and uninstall the game cause the situation is still very uncertain and will just play the new event
Thank so much for the Video. Now I finally now what was happening.
Bro has to be korean to know all about this stuff man good work translating all the situations going on
Oh i was in a lot of contact with a lot of korean players to be as accurate as possible, thanks for the compliment!
what i dont understand is how this guys are probably the kinkiest people in the world, and yet they complain they got what basicaly amounts to a bondage suit + water something kink (there is a kink really popular over there about people that were wet) just cause it wasent a bikini, when its probably better for their fribled minds
Its hard to form a good opinion when everything can be a lie, but I have faith that everything will be solved.
It’s really hard to see people get mad at project moon, even though the awful decision to unjustly fire the artist was only made by a few individuals.
Now people think that “boycotting” a small indie studio is justifiable. Ultimately if project moon isn’t able to recover, more people will end up out of work.
While the decision was obviously a very foolish one, it isn’t cancel worthy.
People these days have their expectations far too high, if you can’t be a perfect spotless person, you’ll get mobbed and put out of work.
This is awful, I hope project moon can recover from this, especially since they haven’t done anything remotely controversial in the past.
Oh yes, people must be very happy because they fired a woman who did nothing just because of some incels.
They already showed that they care more for those guys than for the other players so why not do it?
@@utenafangirl9155 because if you boycott companies this small you will end up hurting the workers too, this could also apply to bigger companies (depending on the scenario). Most of the time you only end up hurting the people at the bottom.
I’m not defending the decision kim made, it was not justified, and shouldn’t have happened.
But you also have to remember that project moon is very small, if the “protest” gets out of hand, they probably won’t be able to handle it; leaving more people out of a job.
My argument is not to defend senseless and unjust decisions, it is to defend the dozens of artists that may be left without work by the end of this.
If I misunderstood your comment please let me know, I can delete this if you are not comfortable.
i fully understand and supports what project moon does, do i wish that cg artist got fired? hell no. but not doing so have the risk of limbus company shutdown in Korea and have really real risk of terrorist attack, yes there's case of game company got bombed.
I just wish everything end soon and project moon finds another good cg artist and start to work on game again.
I just hope the future chapters and artworks won't get too much changing in the process. I don't want my first experience playing PM's game to be bad
It seems a lot of people are very upset that PM submitted to the boycotters demands. People doesn't understand that the boycotters are much closer to PM than you thought. In worst case scenario, death threat and review bombs aren't the only things PM will receive if this continues. It's the same situation with Honkai impact at EN server anniversary when one of Mihoyo CEO got stabbed because their waifus wore bunny suit in an official amv. It's either makes a hard choice or potentially endangers your work place and the people who work with you.
PM didn't got death threat. My English skill is terible. So I can't tell you whole scenario but please don't believe just only one opinion😢 Visitors just waited two hours to require announce of several problem
They didn't do any violence or death threat
yeah. kinda scary when unhinged people think they have the right to do things.
Spineless
@@user-xo2pg2yn4w PM has received death threats before, multiple times actually, even before limbus. This isn't the first time PM has to deal with this issue nor it will be their last. Just because they didn't do any violence or death threats now, doesn't mean there won't be in the near future, especially in the video game industry where crunch, death threats, and harassment are very common. Their action shows anything but calm and peaceful.
@@huyle-ob8rgI became a PM fan in 2020 and I haven't heard of any death threats. Do you have any official information about that?
HOw many times already PMoon suffered stuff like this in recent years? I forgot to count
The gender issue of Korea is very very sensitive and deep. i think other country's people can't understand why koeans are so angry. / Many people think Koreans are upset beacaue of ishmael and singclair's new outfits. but it was tiny point of the problem. / Sorry for my bad English and thank you for your video! 😄
If I would distort I would become Army in Black from all this and really makes me sad with how people doesn’t understand how much PM gotten so much stuff over their last game. And now that their big they need to do stuff so I’m going to guess that they have a lot on their plate so they can barely breathe rn. Even if limbus is now a sinking boat I will sink with it no matter what as it gave me hope
I really hope that this incident will be resolved peacefully, I love PM and their games and it makes me sad that they got review bombed
I just hope the review bombing eventually slows down at the very least at this point, just concerned that the game will, we’ll, cease to be
One thing that make me unhappy is how those people dont find Ishmael "hot" enough i mean this isnt some sort of aldult game
The person who was fired wasn’t the id artist, but the cg artist.
yes...the lead artist...😵
yea because they found out the ID artist was a man so they had to find another target to be angry about
My opinion about this whole "controversy", if you get so irrationally angry because of the changes an update has made, then just stop playing the game and wait until a new update resolves them. Play another game, watch a film, watch a live stream. Spreading misinformation and review bombing is not helpful at all. It is so disappointing that a member in PM got fired over false info.
문화적 차이인것 같음 서양은 게임 본연에 집중하는데 반해 한국은 참여자의 성품을 보는편이 강하지 하지만 현재 한국에서는 젠더 이슈가 아주 심각하기에 외국인들이 생각하는것보다 더 논란이 커질 수 있다고 생각함
(sorry i dont speak Korean, but i did translate the message) it does seem to be theres a big cultural difference in understanding of the situation, especially the feminism stuff which people are very for in the west and very against in Korea. I just hope this can clear it up
@@Welvader i agree of that and sorry for i did not translate my comment and thanks for good video
@@가이진달팽이서버 dont worry its completely fine to speak Korean, and thanks for the compliments! :)
Actually most Korean players in communities regared opinions about Boatworks Ishimael as taste differences. And they were angry over other problems like uptie 4 costs. But I was shocked because players in other countries see review bombing negatively. This demonstration used to take place on other games in Korea. So I has taken it for granted. Thanks for giving me new perspective.
Some of these people nowadays are so desensitized to sexuality that they think something is only sexualized if it’s literally borderline porn.
I really hope we can come back from this. This game and community mean a lot to me.
While I dont agree with the director's decision, it was hasty. Theres no need to make the rest of Project Moon suffer. That's what i feel anyways
한국인이라 한글로 글을 남김에 미안함을 표합니다.
프로젝트 문의 공식 입장문이 7월 25일에 나왔다.
개인이 어떤 사상을 가지는것에 대하여 강요하거나 지적을 할 생각은 없으나, 사회적 논란을 일으킬 사상에 대한 내용을 가지고 있는 SNS 계정을 회사와 연관되게끔 하지 말아달라고 모든 직원에게 자주, 누누히 이야기 해왔다는 대표의 말이 있다.
해고당한 아티스트는 해당 내용에 대해 숨긴채 그 SNS 계정으로 회사의 활동을 해왔고, Limbus Company의 엔딩크레딧에서조차 그 SNS 계정을 노출시켰다.
이것은 명백한 회사의 사유를 어긴것에 대한 마땅한 조치이며, 회사에 대해 불명예를 안긴 치욕적인 일이다.
해당 아티스트가 잘린것은 불법이라 이야기들을 많이 하지만 한국의 사회에서 해당 사항은 충분히 해고당할수 있는 사항이다.
I feel bad for the artist getting fired after only such a trivial thing, but i do understand why they were fired, although i just find it somewhat stupid. I understand why the group has been angry over uptie 4 and the changes, but the tipping point being Ishmael's art? That's ridiculous. Not only am i more happy that not only it is realistic for fixing, it actually bends away from the norms of other gacha games and stays true to the PM style. I also find it to be even more cool looking as any form of fan service, so the people complaining on it at DCinside are just being truly silly. I've only recently just settled into PM content so I just hope it continues smoothly, with less controversies caused by basically petty beliefs, so i can truly enjoy this time and world they have created.
Thank you for clearing things up that muddled the water and now let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel is not Meat Lantern waiting for it's prey.
I am gonna say this. People who say Dishmael bad/not hot doesn't understand the appeal of Skintight. Uncultured swine.
Dishmael is Hot.
Honestly I can't understand why they would complain at all. Project moon has always gone back and fixed balancing and bugs remarkably fast and they even compensate quite handsomely for it. Going above and beyond in some cases. Leaving it as a complaint is more than enough for them to remedy the situation.
Regarding the censorship. I don't think that it can be considered that. From a practical standpoint it's a diver skin. The suit is there with a practical goal in mind. In fact personally I feel it's a little perverted to demand skin where it isn't needed. Something I've found with project moon that I really like is that they aren't overly flashy. Alot of the styles are aesthetically pleasing without the need to show skin at all. While there are examples of some fan service now and then. They even keep lewdness out of the plot. Which for me is a breath of fresh air. They focus on the actual plot and honestly in my opinion it helps the plot stand out more.
Project moon is a company that's never failed to impress me. Unlike a triple A company they have even larger consequences for innovation. Yet not one game they have made has been the same style. The art always evolving and feedback always taken. Project moon is one of the few studios that genuinely dare to dream. They always try to come up with something new and compelling without the budget triple A's have.
I am generally incredibly critical of the games I play. Often constantly picking up problems and in optimisation cases, I fix them myself. Personally with project moon. I adore their games. Sure it can have balance issues, but I always have faith that they're going to be fixed. In fact one of my biggest gripes at one point was sinking. It became useless on abnormalities and some builds I would consider were shelved. Now it actually has an added effect for those scenarios which give it relevancy. They're not the biggest by a longshot and they still get off their ass to give us as the consumers a lot more love than other companies. What happened was ultimately abhorrent and personally could've done with a lot more etiquette.
In conclusion. Project moon good. Give them some love, they go above and beyond and are a gem to us all.
Also... Why does my library of ruina heat up my CPU more than full ray tracing ultra graphics cyberpunk >.> Someone please help. My computer is literally melting and I can't find why a card game is pulling such a feat ;-;
You telling me that they are getting angry over no fan service and some false censorship?
Despite being Korean myself, I couldn't tell what was right or wrong. Misinformations are spreading like crazy..
Thank you for the video. It must've been hard work for you.
oh definitely was lol
will we get another 3000 lunacy?
*another?*
This whole situation feels like the most forced shit ever coming from the fans, Yes the game is buggy and balance updates are literally beta tests, as expected from a "Small Indie company", I dont mind it because they give responses and feedback within a month if not a week, Does it look "Unprofessional"?
Yeah it does, but atleast we get constant feedback and they DO fix things, clearly PM Seems very overworked with how they find themselves pushing back their roadmap and with all these balance and translation issues.
That is really, the only actual complaint we can make in regards to the game, the thing about the artist and radical feminism seems extremely forced on part of the extremist members of the community.
Antagonizing the people who are making the game YOU LIKE OR WANT TO LIKE seems like a fucking terrible move, it gets their attention sure, but in the worst way possible.
PM response seems very extreme, blacking out the community communications like that, but everything exploding around them, I cant even blame them depending on their mental state, if I can assume they are a fairly small team, normally I would say they need thicker skin, but I am unaware on how korean culture deals with shit like this, seeing that it ended up touching on the big no no, I can see how they panicked hard.
Just sad man, I just want to see their strange universe grow and enjoy their strategic gameplay
I think the thing most people don't realize as well is that this, from what I remember, is a team of *30 people*. (10 Of which work at HamHamPangPang, but please correct me.)
Which is considerably small for a "company", and frankly I would still consider them to technically be "indie" in that sense.
They have never done mobile games before as far as I'm aware, so of COURSE the first year of this is all going to be quite rocky still. (Remember, the Limbus launch day was an entire fiasco because so many people wanted to join, and their servers got crashed lmao.)
Not to mention, but I'm kind of disappointed in the fact that people were more than willing to jump on misinformation and dogpile before giving it some time and also getting in contact with the Korean playerbase *first*.
I understand that these situations are complicated, but good fucking god, it doesn't hurt to wade it out for a little before making a final conclusion, I thought we learned these kinds of values from the games themselves, but, oh well. (Since to be fair, not all people are capable of rational thought when buzzwords are thrown around and anger is spread throughout the community. So I get it, but still, going forward we should try to be better as a community/fandom imo. But maybe that's just me)
Frankly, this is also why I didn't want to mention it on my Tumblr and frankly I'm just wading out the storm and only relaying info I find that's more verifiable to my friends.
Nonetheless, thank you for actually taking the time TO find said information, and thank you to the people that were distributing the RIGHT information as well, things like that make situations become much more easier to follow and also understand what stance to take and why.
I think I'll make a video in my lingua franca about this too, but my opinion is this. I'm also a Honkai Impact 3rd player, and there was something called a "bunny suit incident". The recipe for disaster was scarily similar, but the results ended up being more extreme, to the point where MiHoYo's CEO almost got assassinated. Back there on that, and right now on this, I'm arriving at the same dumb thought: it only happened because human beings were able to physically walk into the company's building (and it's dumb because companies are being run by people, you can't and don't want to change that). So, to walk into the company's building with the intent of intimidation is wrong, and DCinside have definitely stepped over the line with this.
We want bikini IDs for the beach episode!
The beach in question:
내가 파악한 정보에 의하면 이런 상황이야 게임 일러스트를 그리던 사람이 과거 트위터에서 페미를 옹호하는듯한 활동이 점차 발견되고 게임 회사는 이것에 대해 해명을 늦게하는 바람에 한국에선 회사가 평소에도 소통을 안 하더니 이번에도 안 하는 거 아니냐는 의심에 점차 분노했고 실제로 몇몇이 본사를 찾아가서 항의를 하자 사태의 심각성을 느낀 회사는 관련된 직원의 계약을 종료했어 여기만 본다면 회사가 개인의 사생활에 침해한 거 같으니까 그다지 좋은 모습은 아니지 그런데 문제가 또 생겼어 한국 페미니스트가 이 사건에 분노하더니 있지도 않은 범죄를 만들고 그걸 해외 사이트까지 공유하고 있어 덕분에 유저들이 평소에 불만을 가졌던 업데이트 문제는 이 페미니스트 사건으로 잊혀졌고 더러운 말 싸움만 남게 된 거야
요약 : 원래 다른 불만도 있었는데 페미 이슈가 기폭제가 됨 근데 사람들이 기폭제만 이야기함
My final thoughts: this controversy was unnecessary.
the illustrator's feminist tweet retweet was done when she was a minor and before she joined the pm. This cannot be a violation of company rules.
She was also notified of her dismissal by phone at 11 p.m. This is obviously unfair dismissal and illegal.
i don't think most people care about the feminist part but what actually happened. project moon firing the employee really made this whole situation blow over because we on the west weren't expecting some cringeworthy people going to their office and actually making a change, this whole situation feels like project moon doesn't have that much spine after bending over because some people went to their office
I think it's because they're such a relatively small company that people can bully them like that. I can't imagine Nintendo or EA ever feeling as threatened as PW were if they faced the same situation.
Okay, the illustrator *did* retweet and reply to some radfem stuff. That was when she was like 15 or something though, and I know I’ve posted and reblogged dumb things when I was that young, so Iiiiiii dunno whether that was worth firing someone over.
Everything else’s spot on though.
If you really played this game you will already known that some IDs is from others character or enemy appear in chapter story. Ishmael is not been CENSORED for sure according from Cinclair's ID cloth is from Rain and Ishmael outfit is from Olga. This game is just start like 20% of it content. I'm sure that in the future when story goes for a little longer when serious situation settle down may be we can get summer and bikini ID. So if you really love this game you already know what to do or not to do. 🤗
I wrote it to help you understand this problem because Korea and other countries have different perceptions of feminists
Please refer to this before watching this video
Feminists are more extreme in Korea than in other countries
The idea of feminism in Korea began in 2010
Feminism at the time brought down vulnerable women's rights (right to women's education, women's free jobs, etc.)
And that brings women's human rights to the same level as men's as men
Think about it Would a safe country have low women's rights even if women walked on dark roads at night?
But by about 2015, feminism changed dramatically compared to other countries
This is because feminism was not focused on the improvement of women's human rights, but on the part of female depression, that is, "women are superior to men."
One of the best examples of this is the military that women think of
Now that Korea is a divided country, adult men go to the army for a year and a half, not a short period of time
In the meantime, I give you money, but the amount is very small I get less money from the military than I earn from a part-time job at a convenience store
There are also many feminists who take it for granted that soldiers protect their country They say, "What's so hard about eating and sleeping in the army for free?" They call the army a "military vacation" that combines military and hocance, and they write letters mocking soldiers in volunteer activities that force them to sit on the subway or write to them
And when people wrote to feminists, "If the army looks so easy, women should go to the army," they wrote on the petition (a communication site run by the Korean government, where a high-ranking person in a country, such as the president or the prime minister, answers directly)
Sadly, more than 80 percent of women in their 20s in Korea are now in favor of such extreme feminism
Reigning feminism in this situation is a pretty sensitive issue for businesses
I don't recommend it, but if you're curious about feminism in Korea, Google it as "여성시대"
There will be a community of feminists
So Radfems and TERFS are very common there? or only Radfems? Pretty intrigued to ask sorry by antelation
@@monte8901 Let me reply for the person above. Both are quite common, but the scariest fact about them is that they are the vocal minority. The guy ahove says that more than 80 percent of women in their 20s favor extreme feminism, but that is not necessarily true.
However, the vocal minority DOES impact other women a lot. So to say 'more than 80 percent of women in their 20s favor extreme feminism (over the patriarchal society that has failed, stumbled, and oppressed them), it would be likely true.
Due to the extreme measures Radfem and TERFs take, women are oppressed. This is what most of them refer to when we talk about 'women getting oppressed'. Granted, they are not the ones who did it. It is just saddening to see this small minority leave a scar to the society.
This whole issue only became big when the illustrator's social media accounts were found and tracked. Those nothing-to-do males found out that she has retweeted tweets that were in the lines of 'all men are sexual offenders'. It is unknown whether she still subscribes to this belief, but this was more than enough to make the male community explode and... here we are now.
Feel bad about the artist 😥 actually really like the art for ishy's identity
ive read most stuff n still cant understand, i thank you for this video which will be here afyer 4 hours
Just trying to inform people as much as possible on the topic! Admittedly it is very confusing though
Thank you very much for making this video
My main question is do these people not know what a wetsuit is? The new Ishmael Identity is a dock worker who works on the undersides of ships, of course she wouldn’t be wearing a swimsuit with exposed skin that cold get caught of metal or barnacles.
Man it just really sucks, just really unfortunate, all PM wanted to do was a callback to Ruina for its players about Molar and expand upon things more after Ruina and its guest, gave them new designs and used Olga and Rain as the new side story ID's and those ID's was the last straw, the last excuse needed for that group to use it as a weapon against PM
The ID artist, story artist and PM literally did nothing wrong, they just got forced into a really hard place and PM caved into it and fire her for no good reasons at all and and also caused PM to fire an employee without doing the proper procedure.
I really do hope, even if its a small chance, that the termination is reverted and she gets her job back.
I think the sentiment of a particular propensity community, that is, the overall spread of Korea, is similar to that of the DC community.
Especially if you look here and at the site here, you can see that the Internet is very influential.
Perhaps judging only by watching TH-cam on Korean channels will cause more confusion.
I think we have to search our own sites and social media to make our own conclusions.
And wherever you go, there are fierce people. What you call "terf" is probably people with violent ideas. (Actually I didn't know much about terf but I looked it up.)
However, if you go further, you should know why the idea came about.
However, it seems to prevent this and only focus on "feminism" and criticize it.
And it is said that most of the people here, most of them believed to be Koreans, were caused only by their aggression toward Korean men.
That's what it looks like to me.
In fact, it is said that there has been this idea in Korea for a long time, but it did not come to mind at that time.
But it suddenly appeared to attack Korean men now?
I'll tell you the truth.
In this situation, it seems that what they are fighting is not a "feminism," but a situation that they have created.
the most disappointing thing to me is the fact that ProjMoon actually caved under pressure and fired the artist; imagine the cosmic irony of creating a world representing and criticizing the worst of capitalism, where companies are treating their employees as expendable, and then treat one of your own employees as expendable the moment outside pressure is applied
Personally my problem with this is that they explicitly did not translate their reaction into other languages, this reeks of the desire for this to be a “cover up” of some sort, as well as their translated statement saying nothing about the possible contract break that occurred.
If they outright said to their international audience “regrettably actions taken by the artist in question are in breach of our contract and we had to let them go” I would hate it but not be as horrifically opposed to it as I am now. Right now this statement reads like a wholesale capitulation to the radicalized elements of the KR community and it’s done with no explanation to the international audience. Given the hardcore critique of capitalism in their games, and the core theme that morality should trump the pursuit of money or power, this entire scandal just makes all the past games leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I recomend to carefully read people comments, since even in reddit the DCinside people are trying to spread misinformation purposely regarding the artist.
It's just a really sad situation for a setting that I love, especially with another event release.
The PM didn't verify the idea with a notice, and even if there was such an idea, he told me not to be related, and the illustrator made it related to the associated Twitter account nickname, so it's natural to suspend the contract.
I even wrote on the notice that I'm firing as an in-house rule, but I don't know why it's controversial. You know it just by translating.
Additionally, Korea is a country with very good security.
If physical violence or swear words come out, it will be reported to the police immediately, and even if the police are late, it will arrive in 20 minutes.
Really, if there was physical violence in the company, it would have already been on the news.
Yeah people with agenda sure made it look like pm torturing her while she still work there...
As a Korean, I agree with you. Even a slum our police can get there at least 10min
But it’s called unfair dismissal even many employees from different korean companies agree with this 🥲 [UPDATE: The artist did NOT even write the tweets DCInside found too feminist or “offensive”; she was TAGGED] PM terminated the contract for the tweets she did not even write without thorough investigation. And those tweets were about going against MOLKA-illegally filmed of women and supporting victims. My stand is I can’t support PM when they fire their staff with wrong reasons when it’s so clear worker’s rights are not respected and protected.
@@RhiNyongshe didnt get fired, her contract got terminated, whether PM liked it or not they had to terminate her contract, otherwise they'd be breaking their own rules
@@breadpriest SHE GOT FIRED. It's NOT termination. She - the artist who got fired - had this interview with this huge newspaper company called HanGyerae, PM CALLED her on the 25th at night around 11, told her she is fired and that they will send her documents regarding dismissal within this week or latest by next week. I don't think this was the right, justifiable approach to do it. And PM is just playing with words. Termination on contract for what? The tweets she was tagged on from 5 years ago?
Plus, according to the Korean Labor Board, employer CANNOT dismiss employee without a justifiable cause.
THINK ABOUT THE FACT: SHE DID NOT EVEN WRITE THAT TWEETS, SHE WAS TAGGED ON. AND HOW TWEETS ABOUT SUPPORTING WOMEN AND AGAINST MOL-KA ARE SOCIAL DISTURBANCE? HOW DOES THIS NEGATIVELLY AFFECT SOCIETY? AND NOW THINK ABOUT THE DATE SHE WAS TAGGED ON. IT WAS 5 YEARS AGO. SHE WAS TAGGED AND THE TWEETS WERE DELETED 5 YEARS BEFORE SHE GOT A JOB AT PM. The artist has done nothing wrong. It's PM. And again, ACCORDING TO THE KOREAN LABOR BOARD, PM violated ARTICLE 23 OF THE LABOR STANDARDS ACT.
I didn't know any of this was happening until I saw your community post about making the vid. My thoughts are
- Uptie 4 costs are heavy for investment but could be improved by taking out the personal shards and decreasing the thread required by 25% min. For me since I'm an Ish fan I used all my mats on uptie 4'ing everything she has.
- What I don't see people mentioning is how soon her next 000 ID came after the other. I for one usually don't mind as long as I have time to save up, but after using my boxes on Uptie 4 then immediately after finding out about her next 000 ID sucked since it looks so cool and I most likely can't afford it or get it for a long time (plus i don't have a Gregor 000 so I have 400 of his shards waiting...).
-Limbus is definitely different from other gacha games in its appeal and it sucks to even hear the "Sinclair isn't wearing a shirt" argument or "Ishmael should have been in a bikini". I mean most dudes don't wear a shirt so imo he's wearing more than most would, and as for Ish cmon minus it being sick and fitting with the character its a rubber bodysuit and my twitters flooded with that cmon coomers....
-IDK the artist, their tweets, etc. so I cant chime in on that front, but I like the ish ID so thats about it for that. Fake tweets, etc. is dumb af imo and most willing to get angry wont check for themselves so losing a job despite the work sucks. Either way IG its PM's choice.
-As for dissapointment in the community I felt the same exact way. Keep in mind its not everyone and only the loudest voices are heard, but cmon I feel like (ignoring the issues regarding game mechanics such as heathcliff's ego) this drama just doesn't need to exist.
TY for the vid as it helped me understand the scenario.
I know I may be a bit late, I don't really like contriversy either, but, to say the least. I agree with your opinion, we should just stop giving hate and let them take this into their own hands and hope it gets better.
I like how there’s
like
A war over Limbus happening rn
The game isn’t even halfway out, people, wtf
thank you very much for this information. I was realy cofused by the wholl sytuation and didn't know what to do.
there are a lot of misinformation.. there's some korean fans on twt who helped translate and explain the whole story and mentioning the misinformations..
Thank you for the information and clearing up whats going on with everything as it lessens the pale damage we got yesterday. I hope things can change for the better and this is only a minor bump in a otherwise lovely games history ❤ thanks for everything Welvander! Now shouldn't you be taking your fumo bath right about now?