I wanted to come back to an aspect you made brought up in this video about disliking air drying, also, if I remember correctly, with ultrasonic machines. In the videos about the humming guru and the Degritter you did not mention it again. Did you change your mind?
Hi Reiner, that's a very good question: I'm glad you asked. The reason I don't / didn't like air drying is the notion of allowing the cleaning bath fluid to evaporate off of the record and leaving residue on the record surface. Vacuuming the wet record leaves far less residual moisture and hence far less residue from the 'dirty bath water'. Especially with ultrasonics where you may clean several records in the same bath water. When I tried "cleaning solutions" in the ultrasonics, I was unhappy with the ability to rinse, and therefore the air drying didn't help the situation. However, I've now settled on using the Degritter as an ultrasonic 'rinse' following my usual Loricraft cleaning process. Because the Degritter only ever sees a freshly cleaned record I am not really concerned about the air drying. To be honest / spoiler alert... I'm now experimenting with the pure distilled water 'rinse' solution in the Degritter, I've tried adding very small amounts of Ilfotol, IPA, and intend to try Ethanol. I will be doing more videos on this subject... Thanks again for asking!
@@DaveDenyer I recently picked up a second tank for my Degritter - overpriced to be sure, but very helpful. For more challenging cleans, I add a few drops of Turgikleen in one tank, and use a second for the rinse. The biggest issue I see with this, is the need to swap out rinse water frequently. For that reason, I purchased a home water distiller.
Hi @@ChrisMag100, I also found that after using Tergikleen it took a heck of a lot of rinsing, which would require almost constant changing of the second, rinse tank, water. So I don't do that anymore. FYI. Current regime is clean on the Loricraft with various chemical / solvents etc (Clearaudio Pure Groove followed by L'Art du Son, followed by an water / IPA / Ilfotol 'rinse'); then into the Degritter for a first clean using 80% water, 20% Ethanol, 0.5% Ilfotol, then in the second Degritter tank 80% water, 20% Ethanol, 0.05% Ilfotol.
@@ChrisMag100 good idea: I might have to investigate a home water distiller... Although I find that if I don't use Tergikleen in the Degritter (doing all the 'heavy chemical' washing prior to the Degritter stages), then the rinse water lasts a good while.
The following i have used for years always with great results - Knosti Disco Antistat cleaning bath, Tonar Wetgoat cleaning brush with VinylShelter cleaning fluid, dries naturally in a rack, perfect every time, no residue or water marks, fluid is strained to remove dust. 78's i use the same method with clean water with a tiny drop of Fairy liquid. (-:
Hi Dave, I just found your channel. I have been through several different cleaning methods over the 40 years I've been doing this hobby. Like many I satarted with a microfibre brush and fluid aka Discwasher. My current routine, while a bit more labor intensive yeilds the best results I have found. I use an Ultrasonic cleaner with homebrew chemicals containing IPA, a suficant, distilled water, and a small amount of detergent. Once done in the ultrasonic, I vacuum the record with an okki nokki (original) that I picked up used. It is night and day better, both visually and sonically, to even an air-dried ultrasonically cleaned record. I really enjoyed your discussion.
Yet another great video Dave! I have a Pro-Ject VC-S2 Alu which I’ve been using for the last 3 or 4 years and during that time I’ve cleaned my entire collection - and have found it on the whole to be a fantastic machine. After experimenting with a few different fluids I was recommended L’art du son and have used that ever since - and I find it to be excellent. I can’t believe the amount of people who will complain about pops and clicks (particularly on new records) but haven’t even bothered to clean it properly before playing! I think many folks would be surprised by how much a proper clean eliminates static. I’ve recently been in discussions with a buddy of mine (who happens to run a record stall) about buying a decent ultrasonic cleaner and also a record flattener, with the idea setting up a side business offering those services so I’m really hoping we can get that going. Maybe then I can justify the purchase! Take care
@Life of Vinyl, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you're still enjoying the channel! I'll certainly get an ultrasonic bath type machine at some point to further improve the cleaning results, just not sure which one just yet: the Humminguru is hard to argue against for the money...
@@DaveDenyer i very much am. I consider myself quite knowledgable when it comes to vinyl records - and with music in general, but I always learn something on your channel and I like your laid back delivery too. Yes indeed, I was wondering about adding a Hummingbird guru to my cleaning regime to perhaps give records a cycle in that first but then still use my Pro-ject to vacuum off. Take care cheers
I watched the video you suggested. It was very interesting indeed. Particularly the bits about cavitation frequency and vinyl chemistry... Thanks again Michael!
To be honest, I'd like to see definitive proof of a record actually being damaged by alcohol (diluted of course and used in a sensible cleaning regime).
Hi Dave, I enjoyed your video for a hot topic at the moment. I use a humminguru (purchased from the original Kickstarter campaign) and am very happy with it. The reason I went with the HG over a generic Ultrasonicator (US) is that the transducers for the HG face the record surfaces directly whereas the generic US transducers are usually firing up from the bottom of the tank. I think this could make a difference in record cleaning efficiency and direct cavitation into the grooves. The other aspect of the HG I like over some of the more expensive ulatrasonicators is that the volume of water in the bath is only 400mL or so compared to much larger volumes in other machines and I imagine this improves the effectiveness of the lower powered transducers used in the HG. I got a spare water reservoir for my HG and now routinely do a first clean with distilled water with surfactant (G-sonic but photo flow or tergiklean works well too) and then a final wash in distilled water only with the auto wash/dry program. I typically wash 5-6 records at a time for each program for efficiency. I take your concern around air drying but if you do a final wash in distilled water I think there would be very little if any residual gunk to worry about. I am very careful to let my records air dry for an hour or two after the HG dry program anyway since I would never want to place a record with any residual water in to a sleeve for storage or even worse for playing. Love your channel.
Hi Gino, I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you for your valuable feedback! I'm not 100% sure but I think that the two ultrasonic machines I have tried had bottom-mounted transducers (one was the Kirmuss, the other a generic bath used with, if I remember correctly, the Kuzma set-up). I fully accept the thinking that side-facing transducers could prove better... The lower fluid volume is, I guess, a double-edged sword: more fluid means that the used fluid is more dilute and will need changing more frequently... a typical vacuum machine of course uses fresh fluid for every record and therefore this isn't an issue. I'm still drawn towards using a two-machine set-up. That is the best I've experienced so far. I totally agree with your comment about air-drying. Even though the Loricraft does a superb job of vacuum drying, I still give all cleaned LPs half an hour or so to fully air-dry in the drying rack from a Disco Anti-stat, before playing or re-sleeving.
I clean every record I buy, new or secondhand, before playing. I use 2 Knosti Antistat baths and I have great results. One bath with a mild solution of 'Winyl pro clean 6' diluted in distilled water and the 2nd bath filled only with distilled water for a rinsing stage. I rotate the record in the first bath for maybe up to 2 mins depending on the severity of the dirt and maybe 30 seconds to a minute in the rinsing bath. I let them dry on a rack naturally and never get residue issues. After they're dry I always put the record into a fresh rice paper sleeve. This has worked flawlessly for me for quite some time now and I would highly recommend it to anyone who needs proper results on a budget.
@@DaveDenyer No problem Dave, happy to contribute. Keep up the good work with your channel! Hopefully one day I can afford a system somewhere close to yours!! (probably will never happen)
Great video. After much research into RCM’s l settled on purchasing the Loricraft PRC6i in 2022. I bought it direct from the company and apart from the positive reviews, and the PRC6i being quieter than the PRC4i. The deal breaker, was the company throwing in the accessories- soft dust cover, the brushes etc. as a special offer. It wasn’t cheap, but l knew that l didn’t want to buy a cleaner, and be left wondering what if. As my my first ever RCM experience l must add it is was a game changer.
Hi Leonardo, thanks for your feedback. The PRC6 is actually the third Loricraft I've had: I started with a PRC3, which I bought direct from Loricraft years ago, when I'd done the comparative test I mention in the video. I subsequently upgraded to the PRC4 (bigger vacuum pump) and then finally the PRC6 (even bigger vacuum pump, and quieter). I am fairly positive it's the best vacuum machine on the market.
@@DaveDenyer Knowing that you favour the Loricraft is great to know. It never fails to surprise me when seeing the level of detritus collected in the jar. This adds to my sense of making the right decision. Though l had researched, it was with my wife’s encouragement (not, that l needed much) to buy a RCM and that came after playing a record bought on discogs. Though l cleaned it manually, it was never clean enough to prevent the stylus being clogged up after trying to listen to it. However the Loricraft solved the problem and that record has a new lease of life. I am positive it is the best vacuum cleaning machine.
Fantastic video very helpful,over the past year i have just started to enjoy my vinyl collection again after years of digital only listening,as such i have needed to clean the records as they have just sat there for decades,i use your alcohol solution and agitate with a wide brush then vacuum off,it works really well the only downside is its so labour intensive and i have lots to do but just cant warrant the spending on an all in one machine
Great stuff great channel as always Dave, many thanks and so good to see you getting more fans as you much deserve! As seriously as you guys are taking cleaning, you oughta look into structured water - normal distilled or even tap water occurs in 12-13 molecules of water forming a structure like a drop, where as flowing river water is only 5-6 molecules forming a 'drop' due to the spiral motion water naturally flows in in rivers/nature (ref. Austrian researcher Shauberger who documented this first), and it thus hydrates plant/animal cells better. It also washes vegetables a lot better (water gets much murkier vs normal tap water). Recently many activated or structured water devices available, and from my experience some work well as evident from washing vegs and rice to brewing tea/coffee - the drink gets much darker/stronger with structured water as each cell of the tea/coffee absorbs more of water via the smaller 'drops'. My theory - similarly, such structured water washes out gunk from record grooves a lot better, same as it does for washing vegetables. I happen to use a simple Nagaoka kit which has clamps to protect the record label and then you simply wash the record under a tap manually (bit painful) with pine extract/soap which leaves no residue. I have a structured water device on my kitchen tap where I do my washing and in Tokyo where there's a permanent layer of volcanic dust everywhere, I buy used records with Japan-std zero scratches but tons of dust in them that make em sound like hell - washed in structured water just manually, I manage to get rid of most of the static sound usually. Hmmm I shall have to do a test - cleaning one side with tap water and one side with structured water and see if I can tell a difference..
Thanks, Dave, for your logical thoughts. There is a vinyl cleaning specialist, (Perfect Vinyl Forever) in the US, who was recently interviewed, 14 days ago, on the “Sonic Flare” TH-cam channel. The interview is long, and you may want to filter out the childish host, but the specialist brings his own insight into the cleaning process, which includes why you wouldn’t want to use the standard 40-50 watt cavitation, and also goes into the separation of the plasticizers, he says, from the PVC, when a disc is pressed, and how to remove them. He also uses a much higher cavitation frequency to rinse the disc in purified water, etc. I use a Keith Monks machine, and like the way, as does your Loricraft, that the thread, which is continuously refreshed, keeps things as clean as possible. p.s. It would be interesting to compare, a half or quarter track 7.5 ips Columbia reel to reel release of “Kind of Blue” to the UHQR pressing.
Hi Michael, That you for the link: I have found that video but will have to wait until later today to watch it (I can't spare an hour and half right now)*... Cavitation power and frequency are of great interest to me, as is the chemistry. So this looks right up my street! There's a lot to like about the Keith Monks / Loricraft machines, if I hadn't experienced superior cleaning by cavitation I'd be perfectly happy to stick with my current regime. * ironically, what's on my agenda this morning is writing up my review of the new Hemiolia 15ips 2-track release of Kind of Blue. Naturally I have compared it to my current references: the UHQR 33 and 45rpm pressings, and my Columbia 6-eye deep groove. I don't have Kind of Blue on 7.5ips so am unable to make that comparison... I hope to get the review on thereeltoreelrambler.com this coming week, and it should be the next video too!
Great stuff, Dave. Good to get the tips on sleeves, too. I didn't know about the MA Recordings or Blake sleeves albeit I do have a few of the latter from the smattering of Tone Poets titles I've picked up.
Hi Dave, most of the time I do not clean my records, because it's just not necessary in my humble opinion, especially most of the time not necessary for new elpees I have bought a disco-antistat with disco- antistat mixture and up till now I have cleaned approximately 20 records (I own about 600 records) and the result is ok for me , I have been collecting for about 50 years and feel no need to change my habits, but it is an interesting video thanks.
Hi @dutchcoyote, the Disco Antistat is a good machine, in my opinion. Great for the occasional clean up of a previously-owned LP, for example. I’d rate it higher than some of the very cheapest vacuum machines…
Hi Dave really enjoying your videos on cleaning Vinyl. I am awaiting the arrival of Pure Groove Fluid , what do you recommend the measurements for Mixing this concentrate. Regards and thanks. Keep up the great work.
Hi, I’m pleased you’re enjoying my videos. I dilute Pure Groove Essence with either ipa or ethanol (ipa is cheaper and easier to find). The proportion is 70% Pure Groove Essence 30% alcohol.
Great video. Ultrasonic then Vacuum is the best way. Tthe humminguru is a just ok unit, does not have a lot of cavitation power, which is the most important specification. The Degriter (only one with 120khz and 300watts of cav power) is very good, KLaudio also very good, AudioDesk has had reliability problems. If using a tank unit, a 120khz (like the Degriter) is best The U/S units that air dry leave residue as you stated. They also only do one record at a time. The SpinClean is different to the Knosti and VinylStyl in that the SpinClean uses pads like the MoFi brush which could load up with grit and scratch records, whereas the Knost and VinylStyl use goats hair brushes. The Knosti and Vinyl Style fluid may leave residues if not used correctly. I use a VinylStyl but i use my own fluid based on the SpinClean fluid with the same flocculant product. (Flocculants encapsulate particles and separate them from the water, dropping to the bottom of the tank). For before play cleaning I use a Maxell battery vacuum unit that spins around the record. Again great and informative video, even for those of us who are well schooled in the intricacies of record cleaning. I personally have been collecting LP records since the late 1960's. Sorry for the long response. Again, a very informative video.
Hi Peter, Thank you so much for commenting. I've found your feedback both interesting and particularly timely. I'm currently still researching Ultrasonic machines and am very grateful for your input on the subject. Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks again for your feedback.
Great video, Dave. My approach is a hybrid and it may be flawed, so I’d love your input. First, I wet clean the LP with the GEM Dandy device and their proprietary solution, using the MoFi brush to thoroughly scrub. I then rinse with a jet stream of distilled water. THEN I clean the LP again with my Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner Pro ultrasonic (with its own proprietary solution) which fan-dries the disk. The discs are well cleaned but I wonder if there’s residue left at the end. Thanks!
Glad you liked the video Tim. Your method sounds sensible to me: I don't know the GEM Dandy but presume it's fluid, careful* 'scrubbing' and jet-rinsing, is doing a pretty good job of cleaning the record, but then putting it through the Audiodesk should get any deeper muck out of the groove, the worst is you'll have a tiny % of the Audiodesk fluid (which, again, I don't know) dried on to the record surface. But this is going to be tiny, but honestly, I suspect good enough. If you put it through the Audiodesk twice do you notice any improvement? If not I think you can be satisfied you're doing a good job. * I would note my comments about letting the fluid turbulence do the agitation, rather than 'scrub' with any force. You wouldn't want any grit if there was any, to damage the vinyl surface. Thanks for your input!
Thanks Dave. I’m relieved I’m no making some grievous error in my cleaning regime. I’ll get back to you on the difference in doing two cavitation cleanings. Cheers!
Hello mate I enjoyed your video I also have been cleaning records for many many years when the spin claim came out I tried that but I found that I could hear the soap on the record after cleaning. so I just started using distilled water then I found out from some of my subscribers that I should be vacuuming my records so I used the spin claim first and then I vacuumed them and I heard a noticeable improvement in fidelity after vacuuming. then I found out about ilfotol so I mixed the Eiffel with distilled water use this in the spin clean and then vacuumed it off and I found they sounded a little bit better again. Now I found out about TERGIKLEEN and wow using this in the first spin clean to clean then a second spin clean to rinse with distilled water, and then using a vacuum machine to remove the particles that are still in the groove, wow this really is a noticeable Sonic improvement using the TERGIKLEEN but it must be rinsed off. That's why I added the second spin clean for the rinse process. Using anti-static sleeves like the mofi or the QRP is essential to ensure you don't apply static to your records and keep them clean.
Thanks for the detailed feedback Ron. I've not tried Tergikleen but certainly plan to give it a go at some point. I do agree about rinsing / vacuuming: ie. the more efficiently you get ALL the fluid / detritus off the record the better. Hence with a vacuum machine what I'm interested in is the most effective (powerful / focused) vacuum.
Two car suction cups around labels, soapy water in sink, clean scourer and goat brush, rinse with low-pressure garden sprayer filled with distilled water
Hi Dan, have you found that the furutech brush scuffs records easily? I recently bought a cheaper, similar style brush from another company and noticed it scuffs records quite easily. Would love to know about your experience with the furutech.
Hi, the Furutech is super-soft. I’ve not noticed any scuffing at all. I do know there are lots of “Furutech copies” out there - mostly from China, that look like Furutech, but are definitely vastly inferior.
I imagine this type of video is time intensive so many thanks indeed. I shall be making some purchases so thank you for the links Edit: do you use an outer sleeve?
Thanks for the well thought trough video! You said that you thought about the ultra sonic (US) bath variant. I have the popular 6 liter DIY variant. There I can clean up to 5-6 records at once. I do not use it so much when it is easier to take use the spin cleaner. One drawback with the US bath is that it takes/consumes a lot of liquid. The other thing is that I believe that it SHOULD probably be better if the transducer is aimed towards the record surface so the scrubbing bubbles can act on that surface. In the US bath the 3 transducers are at the bottom in the bath aiming from the side (from lead in to lead out). I am not sure how efficient or how much inefficient it's ability to form the scrubbing bubbles or not.. But on the other hand if there is more than one record and if we then has the transducers aimed towards the record surface and mounted on the sides instead of the bath then will the middle records get reduced scrubbing bubbles action.. So there is pro and cons with them. I think the "optimal" is one record with one transducer on each side that and create scrubbing bubbles on each side of the record. But I did not believe in scrubbing bubbles but I tried once running with a lot IPA. The alcohol had lower density and i were able to get a lot of microbubbles that formed. So it got visible in that density. Another fun thing is to with liquid and just throw down a sheet of aluminum foil. And just see how the US create holes in the aluminium foil in ~ 1 minute. It is a good test to test if all 3 transducers are in working order. Thanks again for the video.🔉🔊
Thanks for your feedback @Optimize - All good considerations. I have heard about the aluminium foil trick. To be honest that worries me a bit... I would like to experiment to see if it is possible to damage a record with too much US, to put my mind at rest.
@@DaveDenyer Yes, that worries me too. Metal that is shredded into parts in under a minute.. I have heard that somebody did a test with PVC pipe and a very delicate weight scale that showed many decimals of a gram accuracy. And it were able to weight a small loss after US bath. Now I don't have any source 😞 or if it is a urban legend or whatever. It were PVC and no info on wave length of the ultrasound. No info of how long the US cleaning were performed and so on.. Thing on a test setup: But I have a scale that has 2 decimals of a gram but max 5g (the one for adjusting tracking force). If I somehow cut a piece of a record and hang it up by a thread (so it is not laying on the bottom of the US bath container, and like a record hovering in mid water.) The piece need to be smaller than 5 gram. And weighted it carefully several times before and after dry. Should that be a good approach to try to see (test) if any material is removed or not? I saw that there is a scale with 3 decimals of a gram that would maybe be even better I guess.. 1% of 5 g would be 0.05g so it could maybe work..
@@AmazonasBiotop it would be very interesting if you could measure any weight loss. I think I recall Michael Fremer saying he cleaned a red-coloured vinyl LP many times to see if there was any red residue left in the bottom of the tank. He didn’t find any evidence of any damage. But, seeing what it does to Aluminium I’d still like to try this for myself…
I am scrubbing and vac with audio intelligent solution and a nitty gritty vac...then I run on med cycle on a degritter with the provided surfactant. edit--yeah I use a goats hair brush for the scrub.
I use a watson vacuum machine, 1st step dry brush then spray with watsons deep clean then vacuum in both directions then rinse 2nd step l'art du son using a mofi pad then vacuum then rinse again and vacuum in both directions in all cases 😁 this is done reguarless if its a new record or old I also dry brush both the stylus and record o every turn of a record 😁
Certainly don't use wood glue! That method is bonkers. Years ago, there was a similar liquid plastic solution you applied, left it to dry and peeled it off. Trouble was, after subsequent plays, there was a fine dust build up on the stylus tip. Needless to say, I stopped using the stuff.
I totally agree: wood glue is one method I definitely won't be trying! I think I remember the liquid plastic solution you refer to: I didn't (and won't be) trying that either. Thanks for your feedback.
For me, the wood glue method is intriguing but somewhat paradoxical. That is, quite apart from anything else (i.e. the risks) it's such a faff, you've got to be really committed to cleaning a record that way, whilst at the same time it's not something you'd want to try on a really treasured record. I've got some used records (bought for small money) that looked clean but play with a lot of surface noise. I'd be tempted to try wood glue on one or two but would be too scared to play it with my main (or any decent) cart afterwards.
@Norliss You can still get the purpose made liquid peel off cleaner. It's much less fierce than wood glue and is translucent and much easier to remove. But it does leave fine dust residue on your stylus tip. So it's not completely cleaning out the grooves. I have also used purpose made sticky tape rollers. They can pull out stuff impressed into the groove but can also tear off the record label.
@@Fontsman to be honest I'd completely forgotten about the sticky rollers. I seem to recall there are (or were) two types: a tear-off, double sided roll of sticky tape and a 'rubber' roller which is, I guess similar to the sticky pad stylus cleaners. I have tried both but concluded that they don't get into the grooves so are only really removing surface dust.
@Dave Denyer Indeed Dave and it can just as easily push stuff deeper into the grooves. The one thing I found that worked was to carefully apply a strip of masking tape over an impregnated piece of grit or dust and gently peel the tape off the record. It works great and with no adhesive residue.
Glad you liked the video. I do appreciate the ION-001 is expensive, as is, sadly, their ES-001 which is also on my want list but for the time being will have to wait as I simply can't afford it. However without genuinely innovative companies like DS Audio, the 'hobby' wouldn't advance. There are plenty of products on the market that cost far less, but simply don't work anywhere near as well, so it's now up to the competition to try and make something which works as well but costs less.
Interesting article much to agree with too. I have a Humming guru and found very quickly the best solution was ultra pure distilled water 90%, 5% 99.99% pure isopropyl Alcohol and 5% Ilfotol. It transforms the Humming guru, especially for any grease related contamination. Le Arte Du Son was great when I had the Knosti cleaner as I'd would spritz the after cleaning with Pure distilled water before drying, as I noticed Le Arte left a small residue if left to dry but that's history now as I am buying a second humming guru to use with pure distilled water only as a final rinse and dry machine. Using my first machine for the 3 way mixture clean. Even purchasing another, the cost isn't in the orbit of some crazy priced machines and the results may only be 99.5% as good as a 6k Degritter it's bloody close enough and I'm delighted with the audible improvements. Could I also point out the Knosti is not the same as the spin clean, they may look similar, the difference is the goats hair brushes on the Knosti are far more effective than the felt type pads on the Spin clean. The results are not even close between the two in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Humminguru Gerald. That is really interesting and pretty much what I'd expect. Great plan on getting a second for a final rinse for the ultimate results. Will you still put Ilfotol in the rinse? I think I'd still add a couple of drops, maybe 0.5%, just to aid the drying. And thanks for the info on the Spin Clean!
@@DaveDenyer Dave thanks for the reply, you put your finger on my dilemma on the use of ilfotol in the rinse machine, I'm still undecided although leaning towards using a few drops. Again for the advantage of breaking surface tension. I did notice that the drying cycle was more effective when using Ilfotol to just using distilled water. Although the evaporation qualities of Alcohol may have been having an effect also. It warrants a few experiments I think. Look forward to more of your thoughts on all things analogue. Cheers for now.
I wanted to come back to an aspect you made brought up in this video about disliking air drying, also, if I remember correctly, with ultrasonic machines. In the videos about the humming guru and the Degritter you did not mention it again. Did you change your mind?
Hi Reiner, that's a very good question: I'm glad you asked.
The reason I don't / didn't like air drying is the notion of allowing the cleaning bath fluid to evaporate off of the record and leaving residue on the record surface. Vacuuming the wet record leaves far less residual moisture and hence far less residue from the 'dirty bath water'. Especially with ultrasonics where you may clean several records in the same bath water.
When I tried "cleaning solutions" in the ultrasonics, I was unhappy with the ability to rinse, and therefore the air drying didn't help the situation.
However, I've now settled on using the Degritter as an ultrasonic 'rinse' following my usual Loricraft cleaning process. Because the Degritter only ever sees a freshly cleaned record I am not really concerned about the air drying.
To be honest / spoiler alert... I'm now experimenting with the pure distilled water 'rinse' solution in the Degritter, I've tried adding very small amounts of Ilfotol, IPA, and intend to try Ethanol.
I will be doing more videos on this subject...
Thanks again for asking!
@@DaveDenyer Thank you for your detailed answer. Really looking forward to your new videos.
@@DaveDenyer I recently picked up a second tank for my Degritter - overpriced to be sure, but very helpful. For more challenging cleans, I add a few drops of Turgikleen in one tank, and use a second for the rinse. The biggest issue I see with this, is the need to swap out rinse water frequently. For that reason, I purchased a home water distiller.
Hi @@ChrisMag100, I also found that after using Tergikleen it took a heck of a lot of rinsing, which would require almost constant changing of the second, rinse tank, water. So I don't do that anymore. FYI. Current regime is clean on the Loricraft with various chemical / solvents etc (Clearaudio Pure Groove followed by L'Art du Son, followed by an water / IPA / Ilfotol 'rinse'); then into the Degritter for a first clean using 80% water, 20% Ethanol, 0.5% Ilfotol, then in the second Degritter tank 80% water, 20% Ethanol, 0.05% Ilfotol.
@@ChrisMag100 good idea: I might have to investigate a home water distiller... Although I find that if I don't use Tergikleen in the Degritter (doing all the 'heavy chemical' washing prior to the Degritter stages), then the rinse water lasts a good while.
The following i have used for years always with great results - Knosti Disco Antistat cleaning bath, Tonar Wetgoat cleaning brush with VinylShelter cleaning fluid, dries naturally in a rack, perfect every time, no residue or water marks, fluid is strained to remove dust. 78's i use the same method with clean water with a tiny drop of Fairy liquid. (-:
Thnaks for your input Steve.
Hi Dave, I just found your channel. I have been through several different cleaning methods over the 40 years I've been doing this hobby. Like many I satarted with a microfibre brush and fluid aka Discwasher. My current routine, while a bit more labor intensive yeilds the best results I have found. I use an Ultrasonic cleaner with homebrew chemicals containing IPA, a suficant, distilled water, and a small amount of detergent. Once done in the ultrasonic, I vacuum the record with an okki nokki (original) that I picked up used. It is night and day better, both visually and sonically, to even an air-dried ultrasonically cleaned record.
I really enjoyed your discussion.
Hi Teaner Tiner, thanks for leaving your comment, sounds like we're on the same page: I'm very interested to know what ultrasonic cleaner you use..
Yet another great video Dave! I have a Pro-Ject VC-S2 Alu which I’ve been using for the last 3 or 4 years and during that time I’ve cleaned my entire collection - and have found it on the whole to be a fantastic machine. After experimenting with a few different fluids I was recommended L’art du son and have used that ever since - and I find it to be excellent. I can’t believe the amount of people who will complain about pops and clicks (particularly on new records) but haven’t even bothered to clean it properly before playing! I think many folks would be surprised by how much a proper clean eliminates static. I’ve recently been in discussions with a buddy of mine (who happens to run a record stall) about buying a decent ultrasonic cleaner and also a record flattener, with the idea setting up a side business offering those services so I’m really hoping we can get that going. Maybe then I can justify the purchase! Take care
@Life of Vinyl, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you're still enjoying the channel!
I'll certainly get an ultrasonic bath type machine at some point to further improve the cleaning results, just not sure which one just yet: the Humminguru is hard to argue against for the money...
@@DaveDenyer i very much am. I consider myself quite knowledgable when it comes to vinyl records - and with music in general, but I always learn something on your channel and I like your laid back delivery too. Yes indeed, I was wondering about adding a Hummingbird guru to my cleaning regime to perhaps give records a cycle in that first but then still use my Pro-ject to vacuum off. Take care cheers
Thanks, Dave, for your nice and complete response.
Looking forward to your Blue review.
I watched the video you suggested. It was very interesting indeed. Particularly the bits about cavitation frequency and vinyl chemistry... Thanks again Michael!
@@DaveDenyer 👍
I think Dave has the only video showing proof of a 40-year record not harmed by cleaning with Alcohol.
To be honest, I'd like to see definitive proof of a record actually being damaged by alcohol (diluted of course and used in a sensible cleaning regime).
Really useful overview, thanks. Experience always preferred over mere conjecture.
Thanks Nick! Glad you found it helpful!
Hi Dave, I enjoyed your video for a hot topic at the moment. I use a humminguru (purchased from the original Kickstarter campaign) and am very happy with it. The reason I went with the HG over a generic Ultrasonicator (US) is that the transducers for the HG face the record surfaces directly whereas the generic US transducers are usually firing up from the bottom of the tank. I think this could make a difference in record cleaning efficiency and direct cavitation into the grooves. The other aspect of the HG I like over some of the more expensive ulatrasonicators is that the volume of water in the bath is only 400mL or so compared to much larger volumes in other machines and I imagine this improves the effectiveness of the lower powered transducers used in the HG. I got a spare water reservoir for my HG and now routinely do a first clean with distilled water with surfactant (G-sonic but photo flow or tergiklean works well too) and then a final wash in distilled water only with the auto wash/dry program. I typically wash 5-6 records at a time for each program for efficiency. I take your concern around air drying but if you do a final wash in distilled water I think there would be very little if any residual gunk to worry about. I am very careful to let my records air dry for an hour or two after the HG dry program anyway since I would never want to place a record with any residual water in to a sleeve for storage or even worse for playing. Love your channel.
Hi Gino, I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you for your valuable feedback!
I'm not 100% sure but I think that the two ultrasonic machines I have tried had bottom-mounted transducers (one was the Kirmuss, the other a generic bath used with, if I remember correctly, the Kuzma set-up). I fully accept the thinking that side-facing transducers could prove better...
The lower fluid volume is, I guess, a double-edged sword: more fluid means that the used fluid is more dilute and will need changing more frequently... a typical vacuum machine of course uses fresh fluid for every record and therefore this isn't an issue. I'm still drawn towards using a two-machine set-up. That is the best I've experienced so far.
I totally agree with your comment about air-drying. Even though the Loricraft does a superb job of vacuum drying, I still give all cleaned LPs half an hour or so to fully air-dry in the drying rack from a Disco Anti-stat, before playing or re-sleeving.
I clean every record I buy, new or secondhand, before playing. I use 2 Knosti Antistat baths and I have great results. One bath with a mild solution of 'Winyl pro clean 6' diluted in distilled water and the 2nd bath filled only with distilled water for a rinsing stage. I rotate the record in the first bath for maybe up to 2 mins depending on the severity of the dirt and maybe 30 seconds to a minute in the rinsing bath. I let them dry on a rack naturally and never get residue issues. After they're dry I always put the record into a fresh rice paper sleeve. This has worked flawlessly for me for quite some time now and I would highly recommend it to anyone who needs proper results on a budget.
Hi James, this is great advice. Thanks for your input.
@@DaveDenyer No problem Dave, happy to contribute. Keep up the good work with your channel! Hopefully one day I can afford a system somewhere close to yours!! (probably will never happen)
Great video. After much research into RCM’s l settled on purchasing the Loricraft PRC6i in 2022. I bought it direct from the company and apart from the positive reviews, and the PRC6i being quieter than the PRC4i. The deal breaker, was the company throwing in the accessories- soft dust cover, the brushes etc. as a special offer. It wasn’t cheap, but l knew that l didn’t want to buy a cleaner, and be left wondering what if. As my my first ever RCM experience l must add it is was a game changer.
Hi Leonardo, thanks for your feedback. The PRC6 is actually the third Loricraft I've had: I started with a PRC3, which I bought direct from Loricraft years ago, when I'd done the comparative test I mention in the video. I subsequently upgraded to the PRC4 (bigger vacuum pump) and then finally the PRC6 (even bigger vacuum pump, and quieter). I am fairly positive it's the best vacuum machine on the market.
@@DaveDenyer Knowing that you favour the Loricraft is great to know. It never fails to surprise me when seeing the level of detritus collected in the jar. This adds to my sense of making the right decision.
Though l had researched, it was with my wife’s encouragement (not, that l needed much) to buy a RCM and that came after playing a record bought on discogs. Though l cleaned it manually, it was never clean enough to prevent the stylus being clogged up after trying to listen to it. However the Loricraft solved the problem and that record has a new lease of life. I am positive it is the best vacuum cleaning machine.
I've found that L'Art du Son fluid used liberally does a great job of making records static cling free.
I've found that too Michael, thanks for the feedback.
Fantastic video very helpful,over the past year i have just started to enjoy my vinyl collection again after years of digital only listening,as such i have needed to clean the records as they have just sat there for decades,i use your alcohol solution and agitate with a wide brush then vacuum off,it works really well the only downside is its so labour intensive and i have lots to do but just cant warrant the spending on an all in one machine
Hi David, I'm glad you found the video helpful. Thanks for watching, and thanks for your comment. Happy listening!
Great stuff great channel as always Dave, many thanks and so good to see you getting more fans as you much deserve! As seriously as you guys are taking cleaning, you oughta look into structured water - normal distilled or even tap water occurs in 12-13 molecules of water forming a structure like a drop, where as flowing river water is only 5-6 molecules forming a 'drop' due to the spiral motion water naturally flows in in rivers/nature (ref. Austrian researcher Shauberger who documented this first), and it thus hydrates plant/animal cells better. It also washes vegetables a lot better (water gets much murkier vs normal tap water). Recently many activated or structured water devices available, and from my experience some work well as evident from washing vegs and rice to brewing tea/coffee - the drink gets much darker/stronger with structured water as each cell of the tea/coffee absorbs more of water via the smaller 'drops'. My theory - similarly, such structured water washes out gunk from record grooves a lot better, same as it does for washing vegetables. I happen to use a simple Nagaoka kit which has clamps to protect the record label and then you simply wash the record under a tap manually (bit painful) with pine extract/soap which leaves no residue. I have a structured water device on my kitchen tap where I do my washing and in Tokyo where there's a permanent layer of volcanic dust everywhere, I buy used records with Japan-std zero scratches but tons of dust in them that make em sound like hell - washed in structured water just manually, I manage to get rid of most of the static sound usually. Hmmm I shall have to do a test - cleaning one side with tap water and one side with structured water and see if I can tell a difference..
Hi @pk, thanks for this really interesting feedback. I’ll certainly have to try this at some point.
Thanks, Dave, for your logical thoughts.
There is a vinyl cleaning specialist, (Perfect Vinyl Forever) in the US, who was recently interviewed, 14 days ago, on the “Sonic Flare” TH-cam channel.
The interview is long, and you may want to filter out the childish host, but the specialist brings his own insight into the cleaning process, which includes why you wouldn’t want to use the standard 40-50 watt cavitation, and also goes into the separation of the plasticizers, he says, from the PVC, when a disc is pressed, and how to remove them.
He also uses a much higher cavitation frequency to rinse the disc in purified water, etc.
I use a Keith Monks machine, and like the way, as does your Loricraft, that the thread, which is continuously refreshed, keeps things as clean as possible.
p.s. It would be interesting to compare, a half or quarter track 7.5 ips Columbia reel to reel release of “Kind of Blue” to the UHQR pressing.
Hi Michael, That you for the link: I have found that video but will have to wait until later today to watch it (I can't spare an hour and half right now)*... Cavitation power and frequency are of great interest to me, as is the chemistry. So this looks right up my street!
There's a lot to like about the Keith Monks / Loricraft machines, if I hadn't experienced superior cleaning by cavitation I'd be perfectly happy to stick with my current regime.
* ironically, what's on my agenda this morning is writing up my review of the new Hemiolia 15ips 2-track release of Kind of Blue. Naturally I have compared it to my current references: the UHQR 33 and 45rpm pressings, and my Columbia 6-eye deep groove. I don't have Kind of Blue on 7.5ips so am unable to make that comparison... I hope to get the review on thereeltoreelrambler.com this coming week, and it should be the next video too!
Great stuff, Dave. Good to get the tips on sleeves, too. I didn't know about the MA Recordings or Blake sleeves albeit I do have a few of the latter from the smattering of Tone Poets titles I've picked up.
Glad you enjoyed the video @Norliss, thanks for watching and thanks for your input...
Hi Dave, most of the time I do not clean my records, because it's just not necessary in my humble opinion, especially most of the time not necessary for new elpees I have bought a disco-antistat with disco- antistat mixture and up till now I have cleaned approximately 20 records (I own about 600 records) and the result is ok for me , I have been collecting for about 50 years and feel no need to change my habits, but it is an interesting video thanks.
Hi @dutchcoyote, the Disco Antistat is a good machine, in my opinion. Great for the occasional clean up of a previously-owned LP, for example. I’d rate it higher than some of the very cheapest vacuum machines…
Hi Dave really enjoying your videos on cleaning Vinyl. I am awaiting the arrival of Pure Groove Fluid , what do you recommend the measurements for Mixing this concentrate. Regards and thanks. Keep up the great work.
Hi, I’m pleased you’re enjoying my videos.
I dilute Pure Groove Essence with either ipa or ethanol (ipa is cheaper and easier to find). The proportion is 70% Pure Groove Essence 30% alcohol.
@DaveDenyer Thanks for your response Dave
Great video. Ultrasonic then Vacuum is the best way. Tthe humminguru is a just ok unit, does not have a lot of cavitation power, which is the most important specification. The Degriter (only one with 120khz and 300watts of cav power) is very good, KLaudio also very good, AudioDesk has had reliability problems. If using a tank unit, a 120khz (like the Degriter) is best The U/S units that air dry leave residue as you stated. They also only do one record at a time. The SpinClean is different to the Knosti and VinylStyl in that the SpinClean uses pads like the MoFi brush which could load up with grit and scratch records, whereas the Knost and VinylStyl use goats hair brushes. The Knosti and Vinyl Style fluid may leave residues if not used correctly. I use a VinylStyl but i use my own fluid based on the SpinClean fluid with the same flocculant product. (Flocculants encapsulate particles and separate them from the water, dropping to the bottom of the tank). For before play cleaning I use a Maxell battery vacuum unit that spins around the record. Again great and informative video, even for those of us who are well schooled in the intricacies of record cleaning. I personally have been collecting LP records since the late 1960's. Sorry for the long response. Again, a very informative video.
Hi Peter, Thank you so much for commenting. I've found your feedback both interesting and particularly timely. I'm currently still researching Ultrasonic machines and am very grateful for your input on the subject.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks again for your feedback.
@@DaveDenyer you're very welcome, glad i could be of assistance
Great video, Dave. My approach is a hybrid and it may be flawed, so I’d love your input. First, I wet clean the LP with the GEM Dandy device and their proprietary solution, using the MoFi brush to thoroughly scrub. I then rinse with a jet stream of distilled water. THEN I clean the LP again with my Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner Pro ultrasonic (with its own proprietary solution) which fan-dries the disk. The discs are well cleaned but I wonder if there’s residue left at the end. Thanks!
Glad you liked the video Tim.
Your method sounds sensible to me: I don't know the GEM Dandy but presume it's fluid, careful* 'scrubbing' and jet-rinsing, is doing a pretty good job of cleaning the record, but then putting it through the Audiodesk should get any deeper muck out of the groove, the worst is you'll have a tiny % of the Audiodesk fluid (which, again, I don't know) dried on to the record surface. But this is going to be tiny, but honestly, I suspect good enough. If you put it through the Audiodesk twice do you notice any improvement? If not I think you can be satisfied you're doing a good job.
* I would note my comments about letting the fluid turbulence do the agitation, rather than 'scrub' with any force. You wouldn't want any grit if there was any, to damage the vinyl surface.
Thanks for your input!
Thanks Dave. I’m relieved I’m no making some grievous error in my cleaning regime. I’ll get back to you on the difference in doing two cavitation cleanings. Cheers!
And since watching this video I’m being more conscious of not scrubbing too forcefully.
@@timkimware3537 that would be interesting, thanks.
Hello mate I enjoyed your video I also have been cleaning records for many many years when the spin claim came out I tried that but I found that I could hear the soap on the record after cleaning. so I just started using distilled water then I found out from some of my subscribers that I should be vacuuming my records so I used the spin claim first and then I vacuumed them and I heard a noticeable improvement in fidelity after vacuuming.
then I found out about ilfotol so I mixed the Eiffel with distilled water use this in the spin clean and then vacuumed it off and I found they sounded a little bit better again. Now I found out about TERGIKLEEN and wow using this in the first spin clean to clean then a second spin clean to rinse with distilled water, and then using a vacuum machine to remove the particles that are still in the groove, wow this really is a noticeable Sonic improvement using the TERGIKLEEN but it must be rinsed off.
That's why I added the second spin clean for the rinse process.
Using anti-static sleeves like the mofi or the QRP is essential to ensure you don't apply static to your records and keep them clean.
Thanks for the detailed feedback Ron. I've not tried Tergikleen but certainly plan to give it a go at some point. I do agree about rinsing / vacuuming: ie. the more efficiently you get ALL the fluid / detritus off the record the better. Hence with a vacuum machine what I'm interested in is the most effective (powerful / focused) vacuum.
Two car suction cups around labels, soapy water in sink, clean scourer and goat brush, rinse with low-pressure garden sprayer filled with distilled water
Hi Giulix, 'clean scourer' worries me a little, but in essence it sounds like you are a human Record Cleaning Machine. Nice work! :-)
Hi Dan, have you found that the furutech brush scuffs records easily? I recently bought a cheaper, similar style brush from another company and noticed it scuffs records quite easily. Would love to know about your experience with the furutech.
Hi, the Furutech is super-soft. I’ve not noticed any scuffing at all.
I do know there are lots of “Furutech copies” out there - mostly from China, that look like Furutech, but are definitely vastly inferior.
I imagine this type of video is time intensive so many thanks indeed. I shall be making some purchases so thank you for the links
Edit: do you use an outer sleeve?
Glad it was helpful!
Yes, my preferred outer sleeves are also known as ‘Blake’ sleeves. I get them from the same place as the Blake inners.
Thanks for the well thought trough video!
You said that you thought about the ultra sonic (US) bath variant.
I have the popular 6 liter DIY variant.
There I can clean up to 5-6 records at once.
I do not use it so much when it is easier to take use the spin cleaner.
One drawback with the US bath is that it takes/consumes a lot of liquid.
The other thing is that I believe that it SHOULD probably be better if the transducer is aimed towards the record surface so the scrubbing bubbles can act on that surface.
In the US bath the 3 transducers are at the bottom in the bath aiming from the side (from lead in to lead out).
I am not sure how efficient or how much inefficient it's ability to form the scrubbing bubbles or not..
But on the other hand if there is more than one record and if we then has the transducers aimed towards the record surface and mounted on the sides instead of the bath then will the middle records get reduced scrubbing bubbles action..
So there is pro and cons with them.
I think the "optimal" is one record with one transducer on each side that and create scrubbing bubbles on each side of the record.
But I did not believe in scrubbing bubbles but I tried once running with a lot IPA. The alcohol had lower density and i were able to get a lot of microbubbles that formed.
So it got visible in that density.
Another fun thing is to with liquid and just throw down a sheet of aluminum foil. And just see how the US create holes in the aluminium foil in ~ 1 minute. It is a good test to test if all 3 transducers are in working order.
Thanks again for the video.🔉🔊
Thanks for your feedback @Optimize - All good considerations.
I have heard about the aluminium foil trick. To be honest that worries me a bit... I would like to experiment to see if it is possible to damage a record with too much US, to put my mind at rest.
@@DaveDenyer Yes, that worries me too. Metal that is shredded into parts in under a minute..
I have heard that somebody did a test with PVC pipe and a very delicate weight scale that showed many decimals of a gram accuracy.
And it were able to weight a small loss after US bath.
Now I don't have any source 😞 or if it is a urban legend or whatever.
It were PVC and no info on wave length of the ultrasound. No info of how long the US cleaning were performed and so on..
Thing on a test setup:
But I have a scale that has 2 decimals of a gram but max 5g (the one for adjusting tracking force).
If I somehow cut a piece of a record and hang it up by a thread (so it is not laying on the bottom of the US bath container, and like a record hovering in mid water.)
The piece need to be smaller than 5 gram.
And weighted it carefully several times before and after dry.
Should that be a good approach to try to see (test) if any material is removed or not?
I saw that there is a scale with 3 decimals of a gram that would maybe be even better I guess..
1% of 5 g would be 0.05g so it could maybe work..
@@AmazonasBiotop it would be very interesting if you could measure any weight loss.
I think I recall Michael Fremer saying he cleaned a red-coloured vinyl LP many times to see if there was any red residue left in the bottom of the tank. He didn’t find any evidence of any damage. But, seeing what it does to Aluminium I’d still like to try this for myself…
When you say "IPA," are you using the 99% IPA or the Diluted 70/30 IPA you would get at a local drugstore?
Hi Steven, I've always used 99% IPA in solution. FWIW I'm currently trying 99% ethanol in place of the IPA.
I am scrubbing and vac with audio intelligent solution and a nitty gritty vac...then I run on med cycle on a degritter with the provided surfactant. edit--yeah I use a goats hair brush for the scrub.
Hi Pete, thanks for the feedback. To be honest, the Degritter is one of the ultrasonic machines that is tempting me, perhaps most tempting me...
I use the Humminguru to deep rinse after vacuum cleaning with L'Art Du Son. It seems to work reasonably well.
Hi Gary, that sounds like a good plan. I’m looking forward to getting an ultrasonic machine and continuing my experimentation.
I use a watson vacuum machine, 1st step dry brush then spray with watsons deep clean then vacuum in both directions then rinse 2nd step l'art du son using a mofi pad then vacuum then rinse again and vacuum in both directions in all cases 😁 this is done reguarless if its a new record or old I also dry brush both the stylus and record o every turn of a record 😁
That sounds like a pretty thorough process, thanks for sharing Paul.
Great stuff:)👌
Thank you! Cheers!
Thanks for a good video ! 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
Thanks for watching!
The ionizer you showed for 2000£ is it a DC or AC ionizer?
Hi, it has an external 12V DC power supply, which is plugged into the AC mains.
Certainly don't use wood glue! That method is bonkers. Years ago, there was a similar liquid plastic solution you applied, left it to dry and peeled it off. Trouble was, after subsequent plays, there was a fine dust build up on the stylus tip. Needless to say, I stopped using the stuff.
I totally agree: wood glue is one method I definitely won't be trying! I think I remember the liquid plastic solution you refer to: I didn't (and won't be) trying that either. Thanks for your feedback.
For me, the wood glue method is intriguing but somewhat paradoxical. That is, quite apart from anything else (i.e. the risks) it's such a faff, you've got to be really committed to cleaning a record that way, whilst at the same time it's not something you'd want to try on a really treasured record. I've got some used records (bought for small money) that looked clean but play with a lot of surface noise. I'd be tempted to try wood glue on one or two but would be too scared to play it with my main (or any decent) cart afterwards.
@Norliss You can still get the purpose made liquid peel off cleaner. It's much less fierce than wood glue and is translucent and much easier to remove. But it does leave fine dust residue on your stylus tip. So it's not completely cleaning out the grooves. I have also used purpose made sticky tape rollers. They can pull out stuff impressed into the groove but can also tear off the record label.
@@Fontsman to be honest I'd completely forgotten about the sticky rollers. I seem to recall there are (or were) two types: a tear-off, double sided roll of sticky tape and a 'rubber' roller which is, I guess similar to the sticky pad stylus cleaners. I have tried both but concluded that they don't get into the grooves so are only really removing surface dust.
@Dave Denyer Indeed Dave and it can just as easily push stuff deeper into the grooves. The one thing I found that worked was to carefully apply a strip of masking tape over an impregnated piece of grit or dust and gently peel the tape off the record. It works great and with no adhesive residue.
Great Video. But it’s given me another reason to despise DSAudio and their BS pricing…
Glad you liked the video. I do appreciate the ION-001 is expensive, as is, sadly, their ES-001 which is also on my want list but for the time being will have to wait as I simply can't afford it.
However without genuinely innovative companies like DS Audio, the 'hobby' wouldn't advance. There are plenty of products on the market that cost far less, but simply don't work anywhere near as well, so it's now up to the competition to try and make something which works as well but costs less.
Interesting article much to agree with too. I have a Humming guru and found very quickly the best solution was ultra pure distilled water 90%, 5% 99.99% pure isopropyl Alcohol and 5% Ilfotol. It transforms the Humming guru, especially for any grease related contamination. Le Arte Du Son was great when I had the Knosti cleaner as I'd would spritz the after cleaning with Pure distilled water before drying, as I noticed Le Arte left a small residue if left to dry but that's history now as I am buying a second humming guru to use with pure distilled water only as a final rinse and dry machine. Using my first machine for the 3 way mixture clean. Even purchasing another, the cost isn't in the orbit of some crazy priced machines and the results may only be 99.5% as good as a 6k Degritter it's bloody close enough and I'm delighted with the audible improvements. Could I also point out the Knosti is not the same as the spin clean, they may look similar, the difference is the goats hair brushes on the Knosti are far more effective than the felt type pads on the Spin clean. The results are not even close between the two in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Humminguru Gerald. That is really interesting and pretty much what I'd expect. Great plan on getting a second for a final rinse for the ultimate results.
Will you still put Ilfotol in the rinse? I think I'd still add a couple of drops, maybe 0.5%, just to aid the drying.
And thanks for the info on the Spin Clean!
@@DaveDenyer Dave thanks for the reply, you put your finger on my dilemma on the use of ilfotol in the rinse machine, I'm still undecided although leaning towards using a few drops. Again for the advantage of breaking surface tension. I did notice that the drying cycle was more effective when using Ilfotol to just using distilled water. Although the evaporation qualities of Alcohol may have been having an effect also. It warrants a few experiments I think. Look forward to more of your thoughts on all things analogue. Cheers for now.