Rethinking the Negative Rake Scraper with Sam Angelo
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 เม.ย. 2020
- In this video Sam looks at the Negative Rake Scraper which has become an important tool in the turnings kit. He does some scraping with various tools and works on both cast resin as well as an exotic hardwood. This is the sister video to "Controlling the Traditional Scraper" link- • Controlling a Traditio...
Thanks for watching my videos-
Please find my work on the following sites www.wyomingwoodturner.com
ETSY www.etsy.com/shop/wyomingwood...
Send me a comment or question via e-mail: @---- samandcheryle@gmail.com
I am now an authorized Robust lathe dealer.
Please contact me if you have any questions. As a bonus for purchasing a Robust lathe through my dealership, I will provide one full day (6 hours) of instruction in my shop in Billings, Mt.
For more information on the Robust Sweet 16 wood lathe, watch my video: Sweet 16 lathe tour tinyurl.com/uylxh72
Scout Lathe Tour…Video from Sam Angelo • Robust Scout lathe Tou...
Finally a video showing in depth how to make a negative rake scraper out of a regulator scraper. Your video went in detail and verbally explained how and why it’s done. Keep up the verbal vidios
love seeing those “ribbon cuts” come off the tool. Sweet turning. Thanks
Thanks for talking me throughx. The scraper loved thus talking. Really hit home and I’ve been turning for 20 years
Thanks Sam. I’m going to repurpose some old skew chisels into negative rake scrapers. Thanks again for the informative video. Stay safe.
Great video Sam. Reassures me that converting one of my regular scrapers to a negative rake was not a bad decision after all
Thank you for these scraping videos. Great detail.
Thanks Sam, very instructive as usual!
Thanks Sam. I had a square scraper thick, but one of our older turners from Club came to my home and took it to the grinder and said make it a negative rake. He started then left it for me to finish. LOL.... so today I am trying to finish it. But he went for same angle on each side. Like a skew chisel. I guess this will work. I need to finish it now. I like how you have yours two angles. But I am stuck now with the grind he started. He is the charter member who started club 30 years ago. HE is 86 and a very good turner. So I trust him. Hope to see you at SWAT someday. You are the go to guy!
Woodman
There is nothing wrong with having the negative brake scraper with the same angle on both bevels. In fact Glenn Lucas sells his scraper that way and he knows about Tools. Anyway the most important thing is that you have a burr on the bevel that is upward doing the cutting. You can experiment and you’ll soon find that you have to have a good burr to make this tool work good luck thanks Sam
Thanks, Sam...lots of good info and demos!
Excellent video Sam. Your diagrams look very good to me (who says you cannot draw?) You show the tool angles very well. Good demonstration of the use of the tool. Thank you for sharing and stay healthy.
Thank you , For all the good information
I like my negative rake scraper and thanks for sharing your thoughts on them. btw I watched one your videos on making a 3 point tool and made one for myself today. It works really well. Again thanks for sharing. Stay safe in these trying times. 🙂
Thanks Sam on the demo of NRSs, however, I think you were just having fun making all the fine shavings. Hope you and your’s are staying safe. Cheers, Tom
Thanks Sam. I finally got a decent grind on my NRS!
Thanks Sam, always helpful. I use neg rake scrapers a great deal. Cheers from Clancy and stay safe. Still no decision on that new lathe. Still hope to get over there when things get better.
I was just reading in my book called "Wood Turning in North America Since 1930" about the turners in Coos and Curry counties in Oregon in the 1920's who turned redwood and myrtle tourist items using only scrapers - and sandpaper. Thanks for all the great info on this topic Sam.
Yes I have heard they do turning a bit differently up in the northeast. Scraping tools and fast speed.... Sam
I love my negative rake scrapers. Great video. I saw Stuart talk about NRS in an all day demo in 2008 but I don't believe he demonstrated them to any degree so it went over my head even though it was in my notes
Yes I have followed SB over the years and he has not said much about scrapers-although he did write an article years ago on scrapers. Thanks for all your help with theRemote demos. Sam
Very helpfull, thank you.
First.... nice diagrams. Second... lots of folks rave about carbide and what a great job it does with resin castings, BUT.... if you can't get a burr on carbide, then how does it cut so well. Last.... you are 100% correct, the shavings tell the story.
I don't really use carbide scrapers in general turning, so I can't say much about them. But cutting tools produce a better surface that a scraping tool. Carbide scrapers do a good job because they are very sharp. A conventional scraper, when sharpened, produces a burr which makes it a cutting tool. You can find the writings by Alan Lacer from the American Woodturner about this topic. He covered it very well. Other than that I can't really say much.
"Even Stuart understood the negative rake scraper..." 🤣
Great video Sam endorsing my views on the NRS.
Stay safe
Cheers
Mike
Mike, great to hear from you....I hope you are well. Sam
Hi Sam, Another nice video. I also have watched your more recent 43 minute video from mid 2022. I have many of the Boxmaster & D-Way negative rake scrapers that I purchased a couple of years ago. So far I have maintained the same angles they cam with from D-Way Tools. I think it looks like you are using that same "factory grind" during your use of Boxmaster tools in this video around the 14:00 to16:00 mark. I checked the included angle on a new D-Way/Boxmaster negative rake scraper I have and the included angle is about 90 degrees. The bottom angle is about 65 degrees and the top angle about 25 degrees if I'm measuring it correctly. In your newer video from mid 2022 it looks like you have changed some of these angles. Some of the Boxmaster tools look like you have changed the bottom angle to 40 degrees and noted with a piece of taped marked 40 degrees and 25 degrees on the tape for the top angle. My question is wanting to know if a 40 degree bottom and 25 degree top with the 65 degree included angle is what you are now using and suggest? Thanks for your help, Myles
Thank you Myles . Lots of good information here. I think I'm going to respond to this in my next notes from the Turning Shop video later in April. Thanks, Sam.
Great tutorial, as always, Sam! Sandy in Ontario
Hi Sandy in Ontario Sam
I love mine.
Thanks Sam I've needed direction on the NRS for some time . I had a catch with a conventional scraper that has kept me leery of scrapers
Yes I have had many bad experiences with a conventional scraper. Sam
Thanks
Hi Sam,
I love my negative rake scraper and appreciate your refresher. I am recovering from left total knee replacement and the doc gave me permission to return to light duty in the workshop. Thinking a small bowl might be the ticket. I have been watching the last couple of months, but not able to comment. Best to Cheryle and Coco. Bob
Thanks Bob
How is your knee? Stay safe Sam
I like the leather trick
Great video. Appreciate your teaching so much. I was wondering if one should be in line with the center (horizontally) when using a bowl scraper whether regular or negative rake scrapers? It looks like you’re a little above center (although it might just be the camera angle). In any case it seems to do a great job the way you do it. Just curious if one is preferable. Thx.
I can’t really remember exactly when I was using the scraper in this video. But the general guideline is when you are in the inside of a bowl you should be a little above center line. And when you’re on the outside of a bowl or hollow form you should be a little below center line. The reason is the catches will be less severe. Sam
@@WYOMINGWOODTURNER thanks. I think you were doing that in the video. It makes sense as I think of the cutting edge and side of bowl being more close to parallel. I’m new to all of this. Appreciate your teaching!
Sam, nice video. But I have a question about the leather pad used to stabilize the wood. As the wood gets thinner it seems as though walls of a bowl start to flex and actually go out of round while spinning. Do you think that is true and that pushing on the wall helps to dampen that out? Just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Yes, that is why I push back' with the leather. It works very well. Sam
Another really informative video Sam. Do you ever use a steady-rest setup to lessen the vibration on a bowl? 👍🇺🇸
No, no steady rest-just my hand. Sam
Thanks for the heads up on the NRS. Can you suggest a good angle degree for them? I have a couple of Skews that i would like to change to a scraper. Thanks and look forward to your answers.
Robert
If you look @10 minutes into the video I have a diagram on the board. The one on top shows the angle I like for a negative brake scraper I think this comes out to 265°. although I usually don't worry to much about what the angle is exactly. I think you just have to experiment with angles and come up with your own configuration. Thanks Sam
So does the burr form on top of the tool at the grinder or at the bottom? I'm confused. I do love using the NRS.
It forms on the top of the tool as it is sharpened. Sam
Sam, I'm pretty certain that the angle on the top of your NRS is about 165 degrees, not 135 degrees. Your diagram measures 165 degrees and my Boxmaster NRS measures 165 degrees.
Yes, you are totally correct. good eye picking that up. Sam
Nice one Sam. So, do you use the negative rake scraper level on the toolrest or is it handle up as with a conventional scraper?
I use it level... no need to trail the tool. Sam
@@WYOMINGWOODTURNER Got you, thanks. I reshaped a 36mm conventional curved scraper I have ( inboard grind ) and was mucho impressed. I've heard of this scraper style for a while but have only just got round to trying it out. Nice fluffy shavings, so I think I'm converted. Regards from Bonny Scotland.
@@WYOMINGWOODTURNER Thanks Sam. Tried it and it's good.
Thank goodness that "There are no stupid questions" or I'd be in trouble. I understand the value of the burr, but I've never been quite clear on how you achieve that. Logic tells me that when sharpening, you do the top first, and then grinding the bottom last will leave a burr on the top side where you want it. Is that correct?
James Landers depends on if your using a system that rotates away from the tool rest(Tormek) or towards the tool rest(standard grinder) but I would agree that grinding the bottom after the top would seem to leave the burr on the top edge.
@@kennethnuttle7251 Why even grind the top? I guess if it gets too short, maybe. Otherwise, I see no need.
Very interesting, I'm a beginning turner & it's a subsection of my woodworking activities. I turn tool handles, draw pulls, little feet & pens, lots of pens. We make a lot of pens for the troops in our club. I'm starting to think about more complicated pen blanks. I recently started looking at boxes I found that I can manage softer woods but the harder Australian woods getting a clean crisp inside bottom was hard. The older blokes in my club consider negative rake scrapers to be well I won't repeat bad language, so I've been using an ordinary scraper with all the problems you described. So I'm going to convert a square-ended scrapper and give it a try and if that works I'll convert an inside scrapper. I mainly use a skew chisel to make pens & have used your technique of using it as a scraper to straighten lines. I thought it was cheating but as the master does the apprentice shall follow. I'm looking forward to watching more of your videos.
Sam, I am a little confused. You stated the important part was to have and cut with a burr but you took the tool on the acrylic and flipped it then went back to turning. Did it have a burr on both sides?
Joe, that had me going for a while too. If you watch closely, he doesn't just rotate the tool, he flips it end for end. One end is ground for inside and the other for outside. May have to get me one of those.
Thanks James. You answered it for me. But I can confuse the best of them. 🤪
Is there any difference in using a negative rake or tilting a normal scraper downwards?
Yes I think there is a big difference. Raising the handle on a conventional scraper makes it safer to use-but it does not make it a NRS. Also, raising the handle on a conventional scraper in my opinion makes it less effective. Safer but it does not remove wood as well. Sam
@@WYOMINGWOODTURNER thanks for the advice 👍
Hi great video, Why have you changed to a robust lathe from the powermatic??
Actually I have 2 Robust lathes now in my shop. They are great American made lathes. I am also now a Robust lathe dealer, if you are interested in getting one. Sam
I'm wondering what the advantages/disadvantages are of having 1. both bevels symmetrical; and 2. having the upper bevel be smaller/shorter than the bottom bevel. You mentioned that both could be done, and your tools have both types, but you didn't talk about the pros and cons of the two types.
If the top and bottom bevels are at the same angle, it makes sharpening easier. You just flip the tool over to sharpen the other bevel. There are many ways to sharpen them and at many different angles. I like the top angle to be a low angle with a long bevel. The lower angle is steeper and has a short bevel. My favorite is the Boxmaster NRS. Sam
Greetings, is a skew a negative rake scraper?
Yes it is. When it is help horizontilly. NOT in a cutting orientation. Sam
Only if a burr is maintained. Otherwise it is just a dull skew in 3 seconds.
Sam what about a round nose NRS - and comments or thoughts on that?
Yes I have NRS with that shape and many others-some more squareish
the top angle is 165 to 167 degree not 135 you got it all wrong
135 degrees isn't right. As drawn I would say it's more like 155 - 160. 135 would be 45 from the other side since the 2 angles have to add up to 180 and that is not what is pictured. I look at it thus. A normal scraper should be held with a downward tilt of 20 - 25 degrees. If you grind the tilt into the tool and adjust the lower grinding angle to keep that second to the same 70 that you would have on ...... it's quite difficult to explain without diagrams.
Oh yeah, what the heck happened to your fingers !?