As many of you have been requesting for some time, Today we take a look at the 262 HG design proposals. Today we'll be mainly focusing on the HG.II Do keep in mind that the HG.II was never built outside of a scale model of preliminary wind tunnel testing and as such, Most of her performance figures are projections or estimates but have never been tested. Where no numbers exist logic has to be put in place, Best guess is often the rule of the day when working with such old paper designs. Regardless, I hope you enjoy. If you would like to help support the channel, Please consider donating a small amount on Patreon: www.patreon.com/MagzTV MagzTV is now partnered with LootCrate, If your interested in LootCrate and more importantly my personal favourite the Firefly Cargo Crate (God I love that show) Please click on the link below and use the coupon code for a 10% discount of any crate you choose! Link: lootcrate.com/MagzTV Coupon code: MagzTV References:
MagzTV Magz, it's nice to see you cover things like this. I do have to point out that the HG1 was actually made and it did 1 test flight, of course it's not the HG2 but I still find it interesting that they were actually seriously thinking and doing tests. (grammar edit)
Holy shit, those pilots screaming over the radio is so awesome and terrifying. Fuck those robot voices we have in War Thunder. "Ich stehe unter Feuer" "Verstanden" "Ende"
I feel like jets in WT should be split into separate tiers. Say, tier 5 is for the first gen of jet fighters such as the 262, yak 15 and the original meteor etc, then a new tier 6 for korean era aircraft. Though at the same time the player pool will be spread out more making waiting times long af. Just a though I've had anyway.
The He 162, Meteor F3 and Mig-9 Use to be like that, they rarely had to fight their second generation brothers and regularly got into matches with the top tier props, who had their own advantage (turning and acceleration) because those early jets take for ever to get going anywhere. It honestly was not a bad meta, He 162 Pros: Fast, Small, Quick Acceleration Cons: Slow Climb, Bad Guns, No Airbrakes (Never Dogfight, Ever) Meteor F3 Pros: Great Climb, Great Turning, Quick Acceleration Cons: Slow Top Speed, Wings rip easy at high speed, Weak Air-frame Mig-9 Pros: Dive Speed, Great Guns, Durability Cons: Slow Climb, Bled Speed Maneuvering, Slow Acceleration Everyone lived in harmony until the BR Condensing attacked! And somehow between then and now, we introduced P-80 cancer jets which over preformed (literally forever). And somehow broke not 1 not 2 but all 3 of the flight models that made the early jets so great.
Jack Silver Only if we need to. Otherwise, it’s not necessary because MM could be changed to accommodate historical setups. Besides, kids won’t appreciate being unable to fight post Korean War jets with biplanes.
In Il-2 you can apply your face on a pilot model, using passport photo format, and converting it into 196 pixels I think, It's been a long time I might o forgotten the correct numbers. Looks awesome, and a source of endless fun. It would be nice if you could do that in War Thunder.
I fully support the addition of prototypes and even planes that never left blueprint phase. Why? Balance. If there is a hole in the tech tree or a balance issue I would rather suffer historical innacuracies instead of unbalanced game. Game is already a far cry from history as it is. So, people, stop behaving like whining princesses when it comes to prototypes and "paper planes" and consider the broader perspective for once.
In my opinion the big solution is seperating WW2 vehicles from Cold War vehicles! Still, aircraft which saw service in both periods, can see both, like the P-51!
Then the volksjager that I just unlocked and found out how dreadful it is should not face meteors and company :D ? I actually bought the grey camo for it by misclicking. Yes, I had a brain fart and misclick-bought the camo....
PanzerDrag00n yes please. I also would like to see strategic bombers such as the B-52. Why? because fuck you Tu-4 thats why (remember when they said "no strategic bombers"? yeah Gaijin)
Magz does a great job of describing the production history of ME 262. If you are interested in learning the history and performance of the worlds first WW II jet fighter - this is the video to watch.
Thanks for the video Magz. I've been doing a lot of research lately, and I came across a bit of information about post-war RAAF training aircraft used to usher the pilots into the jet age. From what I can tell, there were a whole slew of allied aircraft, typhoons, p51's, spitfires, etc. This might be a good topic to cover for an informative video. It's quite amazing how long they actually used these aircraft after the war.
If you are really interested in seeing what its performance would have been, model it in X-Plane and take it out for a spin. You'll get pretty close to real numbers. Of course this will require quite a bit of detailed construction data, not just its general shape and engine thrust.
That's the problem, As it was not construed or tested most of the new and incomplete numbers we have on it are projections or estimates. To build the FM for it in 1946 the performance estimates where layed over the base FM of a Me 262 A1 with the A1 filling all the missing holes and as such it it probably as good a simulation as any of the aircraft base on what we know.
Yeah, I agree it'd be a tough job to do "properly". At least having detailed schematics would help a lot. But to properly simulate it (and I don't mean simply guessing at performance numbers), we'd need parameters such as the exact size and dimensions of all aerodynamic surfaces, flight controls, the maximum deflections of these flight controls, the thrust curves for its jet engine, etc. etc. The beauty of X-Plane is that *if* you have these parameters, it's basically like owning your own wind tunnel. The FM just falls out of it naturally, and it's usually pretty darn accurate.
@@totoritko Wasn't X plane used professional to model flying aircraft on Mars and design kit aircraft? It's amazing a program like X plane is available to the public.
You know, I've never played this game, but I consistently watch your War Thunder and other reviews because I really enjoy the historical color you add. Combined with the aircraft flying it's a fun learning experience. Especially true for the prototype planes. Sometimes, like in this video, I've never even heard of the plane you're discussing. Thank you.
isn't moving the engines towards the fuselage will decrease the general moment of inertia of the aircraft about its central axis(roughly by a factor of 1/2*r² where r is the displacement distance of each engine). and then consequently less energy is needed to make the aircraft roll = higher roll rate. However this is just a thought , what is more dominant here - the drag or the moment of inertia ? I didn't do any actual calculations.
I would love to see all the HGs I, II and III added to the game, since I really dont like playing the other nations planes in my german tech tree and the current 262s just arent good enough.
@@Suo_kongque True, there's evidence the HG I and II existed, at least as prototypes that may have actually flown, the HGIII however, is most likely 100% just a blueprint, though that's never stopped gaijin before. Honestly, I dont really care if something was just a blueprint either, people seem to have this insane idea that WT is "historical" and "Realistic" when it really couldn't be anything further from the truth, there's plenty of Blueprint tanks and planes in the game, on top of how the physics engine works, how horrible tank traction is, how some models are just absolutely horrid jank (lookin' at thos videos of F-5's eating multiple missiles and flying as if nothing even happened) not to mention the literal endless laundry list of bugs... Not to mention Gaijin themselves had in their original tech tree plans for Germany included the HGI, HGII in said plans, I feel like if they are too scared to add them in as tech tree, they should at least include them as event vehicles, I really see no reason not to- the current ME-262's eat shit against missile armed sometimes Mach 1 capable aircraft, almost every other plane at its br of 7.7~ are superior in every category except burst mass firepower, then you have batshit insane BR ratings like the Komet's at 8.7~9.0 fighting super sonic Mach 2 capable radar missile armed jets from the vietnam war+ Fair & balens just like gaijin said in their Q&A!
I support these proto and blueprint vehicles. I think War Thunder is a platform that would help these vehicles that were never build to be used. We would give them a chance to shine and that's a nice thing
Warthunder is a game more about the "what if..." more than "what did". It's a game about historically accurate vehicles, not historically accurate battles. That's why I'm all for certain designs and planned aircraft being added. It adds to the "what if..." of the game, such as "What if the HG.II did get made? How would it fight against the Jets of the time? What about the HG.I & HG.III? How would they fare?"
Yeah, some of the radio work is pretty convincing in 1946, Pilots take hits and loose there shit. Combat can feel genuinely panicked like it actually was, Even the lower audio quality does the game a favour here as the radio quality at the time was not fantastic.
Now, I don't want to shit on these pilots, but I'd also assume that them loosing it is also kinda unprofessional. And I think even these days, pilots are told to stay calm; even when Death is sitting on the wing, which is without a doubt difficult to do. I won't blame them for freaking out.
I thought Gaijin said something awhile back about paper designs. It was something like paper tanks are okay (Panther 2 and 10.5cm Tigers in their current state) are okay Ish if absolutely necessary, but they don't like that for planes. Something about the aerodynamic calculations and all the extreme stuff for aircraft would make it difficult to properly model they said.
i real life the hg 2 was built and ready to be flow but some guys crashed in the prototype with another experimental jet on the runway thats why it was destroyed. the hg 1 was built and flown
Sorry but no, As I've already covered here that is an old wives tail. It was never built outside of a model, The HG.I however was built you are quite correct. Willy Messerschmitt himself was its first and only test pilot. Edit: All spelling mistakes thanks to Android.
No, that is not a wives tale : abload.de/img/hg-1o0clz.jpg "At the year's end of 1944 the parts for the HG II-fighter were ready in Lechfeld. But before the plane with No. 111538 could have its first flight, the aircraft was damaged by another jet-exhaust stream in Lechfeld. The repair could not be finished due to a lack of parts" Nonetheless, great video as always!
No, Butterfly tail, Clear 18* wing sweep and sunken cockpit. Congratulations you just found an image of the HG.I the aircraft I have already said was built and flown. Well done. Also if you had read the caption at the bottom of the image you can clearly see the caption for the image identifies the aircraft in the image as the HG I :) Fun Fact: The pilot in that image is none other than Willy Messerschmitt, He was the only person to fly the HG.I prototype and that image is also the only known time that it was ever flown.
At the year's end of 1944 the parts for the HG II-fighter were ready in Lechfeld. But before the plane with No. 111538 could have its first flight, the aircraft was damaged by another jet-exhaust stream in Lechfeld. The repair could not be finished due to a lack of parts" Sorry mate, I didn't want to point this out but the image you linked. . . it's a fake, It was created by a user and originally posted on the World of Warplanes forums and made it to War Thunder not long after. A simple look at the image in Photoshop will show you the tell tail pixelization that is a give away and if you google image search that pic you will see it has only ever appeared in that format on the WoWP and WT forums. The images on the HG.I however are common on the internet.
I might be completely wrong but somewhere i read about how the closer jet engines are the more efficient they get as they dont give thrust separately or something... Again could be wrong...
can you do a video like this for the german sturmtiger. many people including myself are very hopeful of it being added to war thunder, but could you review it like this?
I say add it, as long as it doesn't get the damned V-tail, because they wouldn't have used it. They tested the V-tail on a Bf-109 and came to the conclusion that it put too much stress on the air-frame (which V-tails do) and with the before hand mentioned problems in the vid. So putting a V-tail on a Jet-fighter would not have happened, it just wouldn't have.
My assumption why they never fitted air brakes on the 262 series is that they knew it was the fastest aircraft this time and in this case you don't need air brakes for air combat. if your enemy is much slower than you, then there is no need for you to reduces speed in any case. if you over shoot, then you overshoot fast and with much more energy, being able to avoid return fire by gaining distance or going vertical. So why bleeding energy when you can use it to stay superior and untouchable during the flight.In addition to this, air brakes always mean you bleed much energy just to gain advantage for one single moment. After that you have to rebuild that energy. Time the germans didn't have back then facing a vast superior number of enemy fighters. Their best chance of surving was staying as fast as possible all time. Like Erich Hartmann once said. "dog fighting is a waste of time" and a waste of energy aswell. Attack when the moment is right, disengage as soon as you realise the maneuver won't work properly (being spotted or something else).
I'm really a fan of the HG II and HG III design, though I think other planes should be priority right now. As of now I 'd love to see more BF 109s added like the G-4 and G5, as well as the K-14 and K8. A FW190 A9 or the special variant with a turbocharger wouldn't hurt either.
Mate, could you make a video about balancing top tier planes of war thunder. To be honest its fucking broken and adding airplanes i going to be worthless, you could talk about germans moving to the allied side so the bomber hunters can hunt tu4s. And i would really like your opinion of my personal plan to move the germans to the allied side to hunt the bombers and down tier the me 163 to kill the bombers since there isnt much the poor little thing can do against sabres and hunters and a bearcat/spitfire is way more fair to fight, and b29 hunting. Great video keep up the great work!
In my opinion the big solution is seperating WW2 vehicles from Cold War vehicles! Still, aircraft which saw service in both periods, can see both, like the P-51!
The 163 should most definitely not be fighting props. The 163 can out-turn most things and those that it can not out turn, it can out-climb. It can beat anything at 8.0 with ease, as it turns tighter than venoms and meteors , and can hit at least 900 km/h in a straight line. Once you're directly behind someone there is almost no way that they would be able to shake you off, considering you're a rocket, so you'll be able to accelerate with them, and if they airbrake, then you are able to simply apply a bit of rudder, which somehow magically is more effective than any airbrake in the game. I find it fun flying disadvantaged aircraft at 9.0 like the 262 C variants. As for moving Germany to allies, I would miss all of the Hunter pilots crying in chat because they lost in a head-on to 262.
7.3 means it can get down tiered to 6.3, given the maximum speed it can reach and is most likely to reach if flown by a decent pilot (which most players who fly Germany are) it would be virtually invulnerable. only being able to be touched on landing and take off. 8.0 if the proper BR for it, if it were to be added to WT though the only problem it is gonna have is when facing 9.0 jets, but that is also the case with 8.0 jets that are already in game.
Hi Magz, great start to your new educational series. However, as you are doing more of these *please* provide sources in the comments, it doesn't need to be exhaustive and it doesn't have to be avoiding Wiki if that's what you used. Please provide some sources to increase the trackability of your claims and help others find more info, especially on your performance statistics, as these means nothing without some sort of evidence.
I think that all HG variants would fit in with the other aircraft, if you have the HG.I at 7.3 similar to the vampire, and HG.II & III at 8.0. Also to those saying they shouldn't be added because they weren't made: R2Y2 V1, 2 and 3...
Germany doesn't lack jet aircraft as much as Japan, hence why Japan got the R2Y2s and Germany hasn't gotten the Me-262 HG2/3 because those are simply not needed as much to fill the TT as the R2Y2s are for Japan. None the less I still want the see the HG2 in War Thunder. On the other hand the HG3 is a bit too far fantasy, I do agree I'd love to see it in WT, but it isn't necessary.
"Germany hasn't gotten the Me-262 HG2/3 because those are simply not needed as much" Are you serious? Germany has weak 8.0's that get decimated by 9.0's all the time. the HG II and III would be perfect to combat MiG-15's and especially those bastarding Yak-30's.
To be fair everything was planned to get a HeS 011 if it went into production. Problem was only two prototypes where ever made and neither managed to break 3000lbf and both failed during test runs. I suspect the HG.II would have been in production and still have been waiting for those engines had the war progressed.
God, the lack of airbrakes seems monumentally stupid, especially seeing how often standard 262s got taken out on takeoff and landing more than anything. Was it just to make production cheaper, or did they honestly not think airbrakes were that important?
Still, i'm not totally convinced the HG II would not have had them. Both the Me P.1101 and the Ta-183 both supposedly were to include air-brakes. The 262 A-1 and 163 both had major problems regarding landing & time on target when strafing bomber formations (Their primary function), meaning there was well enough reason to consider them. The problem with the design documentation for the HG II like the 183 and P.1101 is that they were never finished. Arguably neither one successfully got passed the first powered prototype stage of their development, were often non-essential equipment would be overlooked in favor of getting a flying prototype for the purpose of handling characteristics. Of-course this is only my observation on the matter.
It is true, they could have been fitted should they have gone into production. They could also have had rocket engines wire guided missiles and /or ramjets. All of which were under development at the time. If you start to ignore the HG.II's plans and go into "what if" you could say that it could have had any system that was in existence or development at the time. But there is no evidence of course. The fact remains the few pieces of evidence we have on the HG.II show that it was not planned at that stage of development to add air brakes or the hydraulic system needed to run them and there is no proof that it was planned to receive them later.
Hey Magz, Thanks for the reply. That is very true, admittedly you have researched this far more then I, as I was not even aware there was this much information available about the HG II. In hindsight I should have directed my point more towards that I think the HG II In War Thunder should have them. (Not that I thought the real one would have definitively had them in its production version) My original observation was to the ends, that I hoped if Gajin ever decide to bring planes like the HG series, 183 & P.1101 to War Thunder they take a little bit of design liberties to give us some fair and balanced planes, that offer a unique play experience. By that respect I found myself wondering if it was totally out of the realm of possibility, at least in terms of War thunders standards. The problem the current 262's have is that they both lack good speed control. while a skilled pilot can still find ways to use the plane effectively you really have to know what your doing to get the optimal use of the 262, I feel If they brought the HG's to War Thunder it would make sense in the "what if" scenario that the Germans realized the biggest issues the 262 was having (other then mechanical issues, which don't apply in game) was its poor speed control. Regardless, I remain hopeful these planes will make it to the game eventually, as I was just a little disappointed that their current solution to the problem of what to do with Germany and Japan after WW2 was to give them a license built/loaned version of another nations plane. Not that I want to get into the Paper vs Real debate to much, but I'd rather have a several more unique aircraft to play and fight against, then 3 variations of a Sabre, the Hunter and a Mig any day. Because It just makes the game more interesting to play. Sorry I'm kind of a crappy writer, so its not always easy to get my presentation across.
Not a huge note, but just an FYI: the smoothness of an aircraft's skin isn't a very significant factor in drag. Anything beyond "painted" smoothness the change is negligible, though by the sounds of it the skin was originally very rough for some reason.
The Me P.1101 was actually made as a prototype...then the Americans captured it and it became the basis for the Bell X-5. so, on one hand, it wasn't flown, but on the other hand the Americans flew a similar design in the 1950s.
UnDaijoubu Nii-chan Americans made F86 out of it and Russians Mig15 out of it with Rolls Royce engine. Vampire was made out of German design. B2 was made out of Ho229. Most post war planes were made out of German design.
The only "German design" most post war planes copied was the swept wing. That was about it. The B-2 was made the shape it was because of the stealth properties it gives.
As many of you have been requesting for some time, Today we take a look at the 262 HG design proposals.
Today we'll be mainly focusing on the HG.II
Do keep in mind that the HG.II was never built outside of a scale model of preliminary wind tunnel testing and as such, Most of her performance figures are projections or estimates but have never been tested.
Where no numbers exist logic has to be put in place, Best guess is often the rule of the day when working with such old paper designs.
Regardless, I hope you enjoy.
If you would like to help support the channel,
Please consider donating a small amount on Patreon: www.patreon.com/MagzTV
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References:
ok
MagzTV hello comrade
MagzTV Magz, it's nice to see you cover things like this.
I do have to point out that the HG1 was actually made and it did 1 test flight, of course it's not the HG2 but I still find it interesting that they were actually seriously thinking and doing tests.
(grammar edit)
I mention that in the video actually.
The wings look like an Korea War Jet.
Holy shit, those pilots screaming over the radio is so awesome and terrifying.
Fuck those robot voices we have in War Thunder.
"Ich stehe unter Feuer"
"Verstanden"
"Ende"
Great, great, great history lesson on the Me 262. I never knew about its critical mach numbers untill now
I feel like jets in WT should be split into separate tiers. Say, tier 5 is for the first gen of jet fighters such as the 262, yak 15 and the original meteor etc, then a new tier 6 for korean era aircraft. Though at the same time the player pool will be spread out more making waiting times long af. Just a though I've had anyway.
The He 162, Meteor F3 and Mig-9 Use to be like that, they rarely had to fight their second generation brothers and regularly got into matches with the top tier props, who had their own advantage (turning and acceleration) because those early jets take for ever to get going anywhere. It honestly was not a bad meta,
He 162
Pros: Fast, Small, Quick Acceleration
Cons: Slow Climb, Bad Guns, No Airbrakes (Never Dogfight, Ever)
Meteor F3
Pros: Great Climb, Great Turning, Quick Acceleration
Cons: Slow Top Speed, Wings rip easy at high speed, Weak Air-frame
Mig-9
Pros: Dive Speed, Great Guns, Durability
Cons: Slow Climb, Bled Speed Maneuvering, Slow Acceleration
Everyone lived in harmony until the BR Condensing attacked!
And somehow between then and now, we introduced P-80 cancer jets which over preformed (literally forever). And somehow broke not 1 not 2 but all 3 of the flight models that made the early jets so great.
Jack Silver
Only if we need to. Otherwise, it’s not necessary because MM could be changed to accommodate historical setups. Besides, kids won’t appreciate being unable to fight post Korean War jets with biplanes.
And now tier 6 for early super Sonic era plane
This comment aged really well
I've beeb waiting for this thing to get added since their "planned releases tree" nearly 3 years ago. excellent video
In Il-2 you can apply your face on a pilot model, using passport photo format, and converting it into 196 pixels I think, It's been a long time I might o forgotten the correct numbers. Looks awesome, and a source of endless fun. It would be nice if you could do that in War Thunder.
I fully support the addition of prototypes and even planes that never left blueprint phase. Why? Balance. If there is a hole in the tech tree or a balance issue I would rather suffer historical innacuracies instead of unbalanced game. Game is already a far cry from history as it is. So, people, stop behaving like whining princesses when it comes to prototypes and "paper planes" and consider the broader perspective for once.
In my opinion the big solution is seperating WW2 vehicles from Cold War vehicles!
Still, aircraft which saw service in both periods, can see both, like the P-51!
Then the volksjager that I just unlocked and found out how dreadful it is should not face meteors and company :D ? I actually bought the grey camo for it by misclicking. Yes, I had a brain fart and misclick-bought the camo....
PanzerDrag00n yes please. I also would like to see strategic bombers such as the B-52. Why? because fuck you Tu-4 thats why (remember when they said "no strategic bombers"? yeah Gaijin)
fuck the B-52, that is just overdoing stuff!
Telsion and the Tu-4 is not?
Magz does a great job of describing the production history of ME 262. If you are interested in learning the history and performance of the worlds first WW II jet fighter - this is the video to watch.
Thanks for the video Magz.
I've been doing a lot of research lately, and I came across a bit of information about post-war RAAF training aircraft used to usher the pilots into the jet age. From what I can tell, there were a whole slew of allied aircraft, typhoons, p51's, spitfires, etc.
This might be a good topic to cover for an informative video. It's quite amazing how long they actually used these aircraft after the war.
When you play il-2 1946, can you make a video about the Ta-183? I love this plan in this game.
If you are really interested in seeing what its performance would have been, model it in X-Plane and take it out for a spin. You'll get pretty close to real numbers. Of course this will require quite a bit of detailed construction data, not just its general shape and engine thrust.
That's the problem, As it was not construed or tested most of the new and incomplete numbers we have on it are projections or estimates.
To build the FM for it in 1946 the performance estimates where layed over the base FM of a Me 262 A1 with the A1 filling all the missing holes and as such it it probably as good a simulation as any of the aircraft base on what we know.
Yeah, I agree it'd be a tough job to do "properly". At least having detailed schematics would help a lot. But to properly simulate it (and I don't mean simply guessing at performance numbers), we'd need parameters such as the exact size and dimensions of all aerodynamic surfaces, flight controls, the maximum deflections of these flight controls, the thrust curves for its jet engine, etc. etc. The beauty of X-Plane is that *if* you have these parameters, it's basically like owning your own wind tunnel. The FM just falls out of it naturally, and it's usually pretty darn accurate.
@@totoritko Wasn't X plane used professional to model flying aircraft on Mars and design kit aircraft? It's amazing a program like X plane is available to the public.
@@5000mahmud It might be, but I'm not aware of it. X-Plane is good as a quick'n'dirty test, but of course it's not a full CFD simulator.
@@MagzGTV just made a model in autodesk and test it.
You know, I've never played this game, but I consistently watch your War Thunder and other reviews because I really enjoy the historical color you add. Combined with the aircraft flying it's a fun learning experience. Especially true for the prototype planes. Sometimes, like in this video, I've never even heard of the plane you're discussing. Thank you.
Loved the friendly Me 262 crashing on the plane it wrecked half a second before.
take a look at the he 162 d series
good video as usual magz
I loved the German wingmen In 1946. Even when they had been yelling down your ear hole for 10 minutes straight.
looooooooool
iL2 1946 will always remain my favourite game
7:27 the npc wingman blows the last bomber to pieces then crashes into the wreckage and explodes. Could almost be WT RB :p
Only in German does the word "speed" need four syllables.
we need a He 162 video magz
Hi all
Can you help me advice for pilot skills, equipment, tactics for Me 262 HG III(specialist config)?
Thank you
my favorite plane of all time.
Hey Magz, what mods do you have running on IL-2 if you have any??
loved the history lesson, thanks!
Nice footage, do you use any mods? I need to boot up 1946 again I think!
isn't moving the engines towards the fuselage will decrease the general moment of inertia of the aircraft about its central axis(roughly by a factor of 1/2*r² where r is the displacement distance of each engine). and then consequently less energy is needed to make the aircraft roll = higher roll rate.
However this is just a thought , what is more dominant here - the drag or the moment of inertia ? I didn't do any actual calculations.
Since the 262 he 2 didn't have speed breaks to slow down. How did it slow down in a turn or on the ground? Was the throttle used for the speed?
On the ground it used wheel breaks, In the air it just turned the same as every other non air-break equipped aircraft ever made.
I would love to see all the HGs I, II and III added to the game, since I really dont like playing the other nations planes in my german tech tree and the current 262s just arent good enough.
Maybe not the HG.III. It is not as logical of a jump as the HG.II, and doesn’t have enough information.
I would love to see my HG.II though.
@@Suo_kongque True, there's evidence the HG I and II existed, at least as prototypes that may have actually flown, the HGIII however, is most likely 100% just a blueprint, though that's never stopped gaijin before.
Honestly, I dont really care if something was just a blueprint either, people seem to have this insane idea that WT is "historical" and "Realistic" when it really couldn't be anything further from the truth, there's plenty of Blueprint tanks and planes in the game, on top of how the physics engine works, how horrible tank traction is, how some models are just absolutely horrid jank (lookin' at thos videos of F-5's eating multiple missiles and flying as if nothing even happened) not to mention the literal endless laundry list of bugs...
Not to mention Gaijin themselves had in their original tech tree plans for Germany included the HGI, HGII in said plans, I feel like if they are too scared to add them in as tech tree, they should at least include them as event vehicles, I really see no reason not to- the current ME-262's eat shit against missile armed sometimes Mach 1 capable aircraft, almost every other plane at its br of 7.7~ are superior in every category except burst mass firepower, then you have batshit insane BR ratings like the Komet's at 8.7~9.0 fighting super sonic Mach 2 capable radar missile armed jets from the vietnam war+
Fair & balens just like gaijin said in their Q&A!
I support these proto and blueprint vehicles.
I think War Thunder is a platform that would help these vehicles that were never build to be used. We would give them a chance to shine and that's a nice thing
Y'gotta say, Il2 1946 still looks good, even today!
Warthunder is a game more about the "what if..." more than "what did". It's a game about historically accurate vehicles, not historically accurate battles. That's why I'm all for certain designs and planned aircraft being added. It adds to the "what if..." of the game, such as "What if the HG.II did get made? How would it fight against the Jets of the time? What about the HG.I & HG.III? How would they fare?"
If they do add the HG series it might actually get me to reinstall warthunder since they legitimately look interesting
Are you going to the air show?
I hope to but I am unsure as of yet, Saving for a wedding and all.
7:11 that was rip in my book :P
Someone went nuts over the radio, scary af.
where?
about 1 minute and a half in.
Lol
Yeah, some of the radio work is pretty convincing in 1946, Pilots take hits and loose there shit. Combat can feel genuinely panicked like it actually was, Even the lower audio quality does the game a favour here as the radio quality at the time was not fantastic.
Now, I don't want to shit on these pilots, but I'd also assume that them loosing it is also kinda unprofessional. And I think even these days, pilots are told to stay calm; even when Death is sitting on the wing, which is without a doubt difficult to do. I won't blame them for freaking out.
I thought Gaijin said something awhile back about paper designs. It was something like paper tanks are okay (Panther 2 and 10.5cm Tigers in their current state) are okay Ish if absolutely necessary, but they don't like that for planes. Something about the aerodynamic calculations and all the extreme stuff for aircraft would make it difficult to properly model they said.
i real life the hg 2 was built and ready to be flow but some guys crashed in the prototype with another experimental jet on the runway thats why it was destroyed. the hg 1 was built and flown
Sorry but no, As I've already covered here that is an old wives tail.
It was never built outside of a model, The HG.I however was built you are quite correct.
Willy Messerschmitt himself was its first and only test pilot.
Edit: All spelling mistakes thanks to Android.
No, that is not a wives tale :
abload.de/img/hg-1o0clz.jpg
"At the year's end of 1944 the parts for the HG II-fighter were ready in Lechfeld. But before the plane with No. 111538 could have its first flight, the aircraft was damaged by another jet-exhaust stream in Lechfeld. The repair could not be finished due to a lack of parts"
Nonetheless, great video as always!
No, Butterfly tail, Clear 18* wing sweep and sunken cockpit. Congratulations you just found an image of the HG.I the aircraft I have already said was built and flown.
Well done. Also if you had read the caption at the bottom of the image you can clearly see the caption for the image identifies the aircraft in the image as the HG I :)
Fun Fact: The pilot in that image is none other than Willy Messerschmitt, He was the only person to fly the HG.I prototype and that image is also the only known time that it was ever flown.
do you have autocorrect enabled or disabled?
At the year's end of 1944 the parts for the HG II-fighter were ready in Lechfeld. But before the plane with No. 111538 could have its first flight, the aircraft was damaged by another jet-exhaust stream in Lechfeld. The repair could not be finished due to a lack of parts"
Sorry mate, I didn't want to point this out but the image you linked. . . it's a fake, It was created by a user and originally posted on the World of Warplanes forums and made it to War Thunder not long after. A simple look at the image in Photoshop will show you the tell tail pixelization that is a give away and if you google image search that pic you will see it has only ever appeared in that format on the WoWP and WT forums. The images on the HG.I however are common on the internet.
hey magz, any tips for flying heavy fighters in warthunder?
I might be completely wrong but somewhere i read about how the closer jet engines are the more efficient they get as they dont give thrust separately or something... Again could be wrong...
can you do a video like this for the german sturmtiger. many people including myself are very hopeful of it being added to war thunder, but could you review it like this?
I say add it, as long as it doesn't get the damned V-tail, because they wouldn't have used it. They tested the V-tail on a Bf-109 and came to the conclusion that it put too much stress on the air-frame (which V-tails do) and with the before hand mentioned problems in the vid. So putting a V-tail on a Jet-fighter would not have happened, it just wouldn't have.
My assumption why they never fitted air brakes on the 262 series is that they knew it was the fastest aircraft this time and in this case you don't need air brakes for air combat. if your enemy is much slower than you, then there is no need for you to reduces speed in any case. if you over shoot, then you overshoot fast and with much more energy, being able to avoid return fire by gaining distance or going vertical. So why bleeding energy when you can use it to stay superior and untouchable during the flight.In addition to this, air brakes always mean you bleed much energy just to gain advantage for one single moment. After that you have to rebuild that energy. Time the germans didn't have back then facing a vast superior number of enemy fighters. Their best chance of surving was staying as fast as possible all time. Like Erich Hartmann once said. "dog fighting is a waste of time" and a waste of energy aswell. Attack when the moment is right, disengage as soon as you realise the maneuver won't work properly (being spotted or something else).
I'm really a fan of the HG II and HG III design, though I think other planes should be priority right now. As of now I 'd love to see more BF 109s added like the G-4 and G5, as well as the K-14 and K8. A FW190 A9 or the special variant with a turbocharger wouldn't hurt either.
Kurfürst Fvckvintxge there are enough Bf 109s and 190s imo. They should add more bombers for germany
ABC's left wing which has a fucking hole they really need some bombers, but I don't really fly them, therefore I'd prefer new fighters
Mate, could you make a video about balancing top tier planes of war thunder. To be honest its fucking broken and adding airplanes i going to be worthless, you could talk about germans moving to the allied side so the bomber hunters can hunt tu4s. And i would really like your opinion of my personal plan to move the germans to the allied side to hunt the bombers and down tier the me 163 to kill the bombers since there isnt much the poor little thing can do against sabres and hunters and a bearcat/spitfire is way more fair to fight, and b29 hunting. Great video keep up the great work!
Tbh there are so many Arcade+ battles up in high tier jets that high level 262s would be put up against Tumours all the time regardless.
In my opinion the big solution is seperating WW2 vehicles from Cold War vehicles!
Still, aircraft which saw service in both periods, can see both, like the P-51!
The 163 should most definitely not be fighting props. The 163 can out-turn most things and those that it can not out turn, it can out-climb. It can beat anything at 8.0 with ease, as it turns tighter than venoms and meteors , and can hit at least 900 km/h in a straight line. Once you're directly behind someone there is almost no way that they would be able to shake you off, considering you're a rocket, so you'll be able to accelerate with them, and if they airbrake, then you are able to simply apply a bit of rudder, which somehow magically is more effective than any airbrake in the game.
I find it fun flying disadvantaged aircraft at 9.0 like the 262 C variants. As for moving Germany to allies, I would miss all of the Hunter pilots crying in chat because they lost in a head-on to 262.
MixedChannel Game Productions "poor little 163 can't compete against sabres" what........you can't be serious
McChickenBites Comrad me 163 is basicly a f86 sabre like Canada basicly being America comrad. Kappa.
Magz should do a series on il2 1946
The Me 262 HG.II doesn't need to be 8 br.
It could be a 7.3 alongside the Vampire
7.3 means it can get down tiered to 6.3, given the maximum speed it can reach and is most likely to reach if flown by a decent pilot (which most players who fly Germany are) it would be virtually invulnerable. only being able to be touched on landing and take off. 8.0 if the proper BR for it, if it were to be added to WT though the only problem it is gonna have is when facing 9.0 jets, but that is also the case with 8.0 jets that are already in game.
Hi Magz, great start to your new educational series. However, as you are doing more of these *please* provide sources in the comments, it doesn't need to be exhaustive and it doesn't have to be avoiding Wiki if that's what you used. Please provide some sources to increase the trackability of your claims and help others find more info, especially on your performance statistics, as these means nothing without some sort of evidence.
Video description, part way down
I think that all HG variants would fit in with the other aircraft, if you have the HG.I at 7.3 similar to the vampire, and HG.II & III at 8.0. Also to those saying they shouldn't be added because they weren't made: R2Y2 V1, 2 and 3...
Germany doesn't lack jet aircraft as much as Japan, hence why Japan got the R2Y2s and Germany hasn't gotten the Me-262 HG2/3 because those are simply not needed as much to fill the TT as the R2Y2s are for Japan.
None the less I still want the see the HG2 in War Thunder. On the other hand the HG3 is a bit too far fantasy, I do agree I'd love to see it in WT, but it isn't necessary.
"Germany hasn't gotten the Me-262 HG2/3 because those are simply not needed as much" Are you serious? Germany has weak 8.0's that get decimated by 9.0's all the time. the HG II and III would be perfect to combat MiG-15's and especially those bastarding Yak-30's.
I just wanna see the b36 and and b52 and tu 95 and maybe some 1960 at the latest fighters for all all sides.
Plus the Mig used an actual Rolls Royce engine kindly donated to the USSR.............which caused an absolute scandal when the USAF found out.
ah but don't forget the HG2s were also planned to be equipped with the HeS 011 engine when they were ready for mass production
To be fair everything was planned to get a HeS 011 if it went into production.
Problem was only two prototypes where ever made and neither managed to break 3000lbf and both failed during test runs.
I suspect the HG.II would have been in production and still have been waiting for those engines had the war progressed.
MagzTV good point, but still an interesting if terrifying 'what if'
It's barely a what if. 1944/45 Germany wasn't capable of building stuff like that. None of these napkin drawings would have ever happened
SVT Red I know that, you don't need to be a butt hole about it though
Hugh... It looks like an Me 262 with everything that stood in a very heavy storm.
Need want, can has?
Its such a sexy plane
Honestly the last thing we need is another 262. The Me line of jets is already a hell of a grind
John Moore maybe in a sort of folder with the c2b
Und der Teufel der lacht nur dazu! ab rb or sb?
Did the HGIII really exist?
On paper yes, however it never progressed from the design.
One year later and......
God, the lack of airbrakes seems monumentally stupid, especially seeing how often standard 262s got taken out on takeoff and landing more than anything. Was it just to make production cheaper, or did they honestly not think airbrakes were that important?
Still, i'm not totally convinced the HG II would not have had them. Both the Me P.1101 and the Ta-183 both supposedly were to include air-brakes. The 262 A-1 and 163 both had major problems regarding landing & time on target when strafing bomber formations (Their primary function), meaning there was well enough reason to consider them.
The problem with the design documentation for the HG II like the 183 and P.1101 is that they were never finished. Arguably neither one successfully got passed the first powered prototype stage of their development, were often non-essential equipment would be overlooked in favor of getting a flying prototype for the purpose of handling characteristics.
Of-course this is only my observation on the matter.
It is true, they could have been fitted should they have gone into production. They could also have had rocket engines wire guided missiles and /or ramjets. All of which were under development at the time. If you start to ignore the HG.II's plans and go into "what if" you could say that it could have had any system that was in existence or development at the time. But there is no evidence of course.
The fact remains the few pieces of evidence we have on the HG.II show that it was not planned at that stage of development to add air brakes or the hydraulic system needed to run them and there is no proof that it was planned to receive them later.
Hey Magz, Thanks for the reply. That is very true, admittedly you have researched this far more then I, as I was not even aware there was this much information available about the HG II. In hindsight I should have directed my point more towards that I think the HG II In War Thunder should have them. (Not that I thought the real one would have definitively had them in its production version)
My original observation was to the ends, that I hoped if Gajin ever decide to bring planes like the HG series, 183 & P.1101 to War Thunder they take a little bit of design liberties to give us some fair and balanced planes, that offer a unique play experience.
By that respect I found myself wondering if it was totally out of the realm of possibility, at least in terms of War thunders standards. The problem the current 262's have is that they both lack good speed control. while a skilled pilot can still find ways to use the plane effectively you really have to know what your doing to get the optimal use of the 262, I feel If they brought the HG's to War Thunder it would make sense in the "what if" scenario that the Germans realized the biggest issues the 262 was having (other then mechanical issues, which don't apply in game) was its poor speed control.
Regardless, I remain hopeful these planes will make it to the game eventually, as I was just a little disappointed that their current solution to the problem of what to do with Germany and Japan after WW2 was to give them a license built/loaned version of another nations plane.
Not that I want to get into the Paper vs Real debate to much, but I'd rather have a several more unique aircraft to play and fight against, then 3 variations of a Sabre, the Hunter and a Mig any day. Because It just makes the game more interesting to play.
Sorry I'm kind of a crappy writer, so its not always easy to get my presentation across.
i think this aircraft should be at 7.0 or 7.7
@MAGZ Almost to 50K SUBS! CONGRATS..
Special 50k video plz.
i don't need more fucking 262's before the cl 13, god damn
Sir Waffels You could make the C1a and C2b in a bracket
Is been four years still no sign of this aircraft
JG 52 represent!
Magz, you need to go watch Good Mythical Morning today.
the hg ii was ¨builded¨ remodeling an c2b to test its peformance
The HG II could have been outperformed by the De Havilland Vampire though
Charlie Boddington
um
A-1a out performs a vampire we have in wt
I though in real life it was better? I can't play WT any more (but i would love to), so i dont know about the stat cards
Also, liking the "New Tracers" bid. I subbed
Cool.(Sorry for my English)
Not a huge note, but just an FYI: the smoothness of an aircraft's skin isn't a very significant factor in drag. Anything beyond "painted" smoothness the change is negligible, though by the sounds of it the skin was originally very rough for some reason.
Please War Thunder add this!
Almost thought this was being added. Fuck
This weird German Officer screaming around like he's being beaten up: D
262 comments. Now 263
Why do I have a bad feeling about this?
Because it is in World of Warplanes?
Afaik th HG II never had a V-tail. It was built but never flown. The vehicle shown off looks like a hybrid of HG II and III.
hello comrade
the intro looks like an anime intro lul
229 comments now 300
I was 20th like boi
adolf boozman? damn
You lost me on "So let's talk war thunder just a moment"...
no fucking way there adding this
Me P1101 (Saber) Ta252 (Mig15) and many more planes, yet War Thunder has F86 and Mig15 for Germany.... Pathetic...
your comparing WWII fantasy designs to actually successful British and american 50's engine designs?
....Pathetic :^)
The Me P.1101 was actually made as a prototype...then the Americans captured it and it became the basis for the Bell X-5. so, on one hand, it wasn't flown, but on the other hand the Americans flew a similar design in the 1950s.
UnDaijoubu Nii-chan Americans made F86 out of it and Russians Mig15 out of it with Rolls Royce engine. Vampire was made out of German design. B2 was made out of Ho229. Most post war planes were made out of German design.
The only "German design" most post war planes copied was the swept wing. That was about it. The B-2 was made the shape it was because of the stealth properties it gives.
Hobbyist !
I'd rather not see this in war thunder. First of all it's a paper design. And it's pretty obvious that it's gonna be rekt at 9.0, but op at 8.0
Martin Zhang Lol its like the panther II all over again