Great video that dares talk about wine on a high level and digging deep. I love the room for poetry and you three taking your time in staying in (very interesting) topics. Thank you Agnese for putting this together and being such a good host!
@@NoSediment I bet! I think you can see in the video how much fun you all had. Btw, have you ever been to ProWein Agnese? I am thinking of going this year and am curious as what I can expect...
I enjoyed this conversation so much. Thank you for giving us access to not only your own knowledge and observations, but also the deep knowledge and insights of Nords and Jefford.
Thank You. I was starstruck myself. Nords and Aigars have such a deep knowledge and understanding of wine, it was my absolute pleasure to be with them and discuss these topics. 🙏🏻
Thank you Agnes for a fabulous discussion. When I first bought wine to cellar at the ripe old age of 16, my perception of fine wine was a $5.00 Australian Cabernet Sauvignon from the Clare Valley. That was in the late 1970’s and my perception of fine wine was based on growing up in a house where everyday wine was bought in 2 litre flagons. These days I seek out wines from all over the world travelng to places like Georgia, Slovenia and Santorini to seek out interesting wines many of which I would describe as fine, regardless of ageability or even relative quality. Drinking an orange quevri wine made in Georgia is incomparable to a 1982 Bordeaux and yet both can be considered fine wine.
Cannot agree more with the comments..Great coversation, passionate, easy going, no hype. Thanks, keep going. Similar ideas, good atmosphere brought me to wine 20yrs ago
An absolutely wonderful conversation, just love your podcast interviews. Both Andrew Jefford & Aigars Nords were perfect regarding this subject. I think this is important to show people that fancy chateaus and high prices are not the key factors to be a fine wine. Keep up your good work! Another question, are you finnished with your studies to become a MW yet?
Thank You! 🙏🏻 unfortunately no, I will have to sit the exam next year again. I want to say I knew it (very few pass with first go), but receiving the news was still crushing. 🥺 hopefully next summer. I am already dedicated to studying again.
Awesome conversation. Every experienced and new wine drinker needs to see this. “Fine wine are those shared by fine people.” What a fantastic thought. Time, terroir and wine. What a great combination. Thank you.
Thank you, Agnese, for organising this wonderful conversation, on the elements of fine wine. I agree very much with you on the people factor and your reaction to the wine, part of the place and culture. We have all had good and bad experiences at cellar doors and dickhead winemaker/proprietors, and how you are treated on your arrival, particularly if you are new to the region or winery. As Andrew says when I am drinking a "fine" wine, I do think of the place/people/history and the region that the wine comes from. Being Australian we would also focus on the varietal, not solely on the terroir like the French. Finally, I agree on the wine journey, our own tastes change over time and the industry changes to try and match wine consumer preferences, eg "nutty/buttery oaked chardonnays". Another challenge is the declining wine consumption by young people. Happily, after drinking wine for over forty years, I have defined my fine wine choices, so I will just keep going. Cheers
I think that for me, the criteria is taste. I have reached the age where cellaring a wine for 10-20 years is no longer realistic, it could work out but… do I want to leave a room full of wine for someone who may not appreciate or enjoy it? I don’t have the knowledge that any of you have but I can still find a way to enjoy a glass of wine without getting too involved with detailed analysis. Having said that, I still enjoy listening to your discussion.
Ack! Im looking at 3 bags of apples justvpicked i can barely carry... its cider time and unlike previous years im way busier and so is all my typical help!!! Thanks for wine talk over breaky! Love the coffee table scene
These interviews introduce me to great wine personalities. It was nice to see Andrew back and a delight to see Aigars for the first time. The conversation could have lasted another hour and it would still have seemed too short.
This was a thoroughly enjoyable conversation about wine and about life and I find a commonality with the views and insights shared. I think our individual and collective definition about what a fine wine is always evolving and changing as we age and mature. And I agree even if the art and/or wine is great if the artists or winemakers are nasty individuals I will respectfully pass on it and go to the neighbors/competitors instead. Fascinating to see Syrian wine showcased, always great to see wines from the cradle of wine civilization being re-introduced to us all. Cheers!
While I agree that low intervention grape growing/farming is a wonderful thing - "natural" wine hasnt blown me away. I have never tasted a "natural" wine that didnt taste like it.
I think that natural wine world has changed and evolved so much, and I am happy to see so much wines out there that might be defined as “natural” but has no or very little of that funkiness we sometimes link with natural wine scene. 🥂
Great discussion! The idea of having being able to appreciate "perfection" or the peak of wine/food should definitely not prevent us from enjoying more casual and less refined versions in their own right. Having experienced the quality beef in the world (i.e. Hanwoo) prepared in the ideal conditions (i.e. grilled over charcoal overlooking the Han River) does not prevent me from enjoying far less marbled, grass-fed local beef from the Mid-Atlantic U.S. that beautifully seared to a beefy and savory medium. If anything, I feel less guilty trying the latter with wine than the former, which would provoke guilt in having it with anything. When a winery makes different tiers in different styles with all of them executed comparable in quality relative to their price brackets, all of them should be able to be enjoyed in their own right, on their own timelines, and savored for respective occasions!
You are absolutely correct- this is why I especially liked what Andrew Jefford said, that fine wine should bring intense pleasure. As more casual wine after a long hard day can bring great pleasure as well! 🥂
I totally agree,@@NoSediment! It has to do with being Mindful and in the moment when tasting (rather than chugging) said beverage (wine, beer, liquor/spirit, cocktail, non-alcoholic drink) or food.
It sees to be a given that the famous wine houses that charge crazy prices automatically are rated as making fine wines. Anyone who actually is honest with themselves know that this is not always the case. In the end, the phrase "fine wine" is super subjective and what you consider to be a fine wine may not be my definition of fine wine. No matter how the wine reviewer carries themselves or how they dress or the accent (or unneeded profanity) they use, fine wine is something different to everyone. Thank you for the video though, I enjoyed it.
The fun part is that - not always it is the winery that charges the high price, but rather the price increases due to the middleman. I know many great estates that release their wines at very reasonable prices, and it is the market that drives them up. 😢 but I absolutely love that topic of fine wine has brought so many discussions. 🍷 Cheers!
Fine wine is a community for some. I just traded a Port vintage from 1959 with a wine collector from Denmark that has a Coronation Tawny that will allow me to exchange for a Blandy's from 1932 located in Torino from a British collector. I'm part of over 20 chat groups pertaining to both wines and beverages in general. And at least two of my vacations iare focused around a wine region or wine style. The community can be snobbish art times but that's preferable to the level of ignorance permeating so many discussions.
I agree with you overall. Note, it is unusual that you identify the wine you're getting only as a 1932 Blandy's. Which Madeira grape it is, is crucial, don't you think?
Agnes, I think you miss my point. I only brought up Wagner because he was firmly documented as being a horrible human being yet created masterpieces that are influencing composers today. Of course this was not the main point, yet you brought the point up. Out of all the wines you've tasted and enjoyed immensely, don't you think that there are some people creating these wines that would put you off on a personal level ? The main point of the conversation was quality in fine wines and how we quantify that. Certainly you will not meet every winemaker of wines you consider great, so my point is the quality of the wine , not the personality of the winemaker. Nevertheless , I thoroughly enjoyed the interview as it was very enlightening. Santé
Of course I know that, this is exactly why I brought it up. The wine might be great, and I should be able to mark it uninfluenced, 100%. Whether I can enjoy it as much as other great wines is a different question. Completely valid point from Your side!
Most expensive wine I’ve had was £500. it was underwhelming. The best wine I’ve had was £26 with a £13 bottle coming close 2nd. Palate is subjective and taste is subjective. Best bottle of wines I’ve had / remember are wines I share with my wife when life is tough or with friends that we cherish. Of course there are some wines that taste like absolutely piss (a particular Shiraz made in Kent, England), you can’t save it with good company!
I completely agree with You, we all have our preferences. Similarly as with colour, it doesn’t mean that blue, green or red is better - it is just a personal taste. However, quality is different, and that can be observed objectively in every industry, including wine! 🍷
While it may be a personal thing, I don’t think a wine can be considered a fine wine if they affect a person adversely. So many California Cabernets are great examples. One shouldn’t wake up feeling like their head is the size of a basketball and makes a person congested. I never have this problem with “fine” Burgundy. Having said that, many Butgundy wines are, by design, considered “entry level. While you won’t get a basketball head, they are not considered fine. I would say that they are pedestrian.
I like the definition the one gentlemen offered up: that the wine is worth talking about. Which takes me back to one of your tastings Agnese where your immediate response to one wine was, “Wow”.
I like when wines are described as structured and elegant. I usually think of those wines as fine. But at the same time a simple Pinot Noir from Willamette Valley may not be structured or elegant but they are quite fine.
I know what You mean, truly and shortly even touched upon this subject. But the truth is that sometimes it can be due some intolerances that specifically our body has. Therefore I might not write down all Cabernet Sauvignon’s from Napa’ 😅
I am not sure I agree. Any red wine will give most people indigestion and headaches if they drink too much too close to going to bed. You can say you shouldn't overindulge, but where do you draw the line? If I feel fine with 3 glasses of a very clean but boring and cheap white wine before bed, does that mean any Burgundy that gives me a headache with 3 glasses is not fine wine?
We tasted 80 wines during the day, did not drink 80 wines! And after the conversation we had lovely dinner, with rest of the company behind the camera, and all the wines were appreciated! 🍷
@ That's wonderful news! Now, I can finally rest peacefully at night, without the nagging worry about that half-empty Palmer slowly fading away in some forgotten corner. 🎃
I'm not sure I agree. Many rustic wines, homemade or cheap, are interesting to talk about, have a sense of place and can age well. Are they fine wines? What about expensive whites with a definitive sense of place meant to be drank within 2 years of harvest?
Most people consider an oil painting to be "fine art" regardless of the actual quality of the work. Similarly, no matter how many Oscars a film receives, most people won't consider it "fine art". This definition has nothing to do with talent or merit or success and only the medium. Should a definition like this apply to wine?
Agnes , you need to separate out personality with what pleasure you receive from an artist/winemaker. Wagner was a complete asshole but a genius as a musician -composer for example. People are complex
Of course, however, that is not the main topic here. And there is huge difference of people in past and how people are acting in life now (presentism). Let’s just say this - if a person is really lovely I feel I am going to enjoy their work much, much more. 🙏🏻
never get tired of saying that wine world and what is a “fine wine” was defined by culture who drinks tea with milk to soften tannins. edit: terroir talk is very curious. calling out Tuscany for using French varieties, called our Australians for multi regional blends and yet, not calling out Champaign for literally been the least terroir wine in a wine world (oh wait, you called out Champaign too but blamed California for imitating😂) or not calling out Bordeaux for blending 75 different grape varieties, vineyards, plots, casks. I think there are two elements people usually confuse when it comes to terroir. there are wines that express terroir which usually means, wine that expresses the specific location of vineyard and there are terroir wines, which means wines that are define by location, meaning, they use specific unique varieties, specific technics on every step of wine making, fermentation and aging and make unique style of wine. now, in these two definitions of terroir, Bordeaux and in a lesser extent, Champaign fit in only one and not the other. Bordeaux is a definition of true terroir style, they have created something unique that literally every region of wine world tries to copy but hardly a modern Bordeaux can be an example for wine that expresses a specific vineyard. I think what todays Bordeaux expresses the terroir of is unlimited resources. this is why Super Tuscan wines have a potential to express location of vineyards and vintages but Super Tuscan wines can never been a terroir wines as a style.
I think Champagnes are especially terroir driven wines, no questions there! We specifically discuss this topic with one of the top experts on Champagne Peter Liem in one of my other podcasts! 🥂 Cheers!
@@pierrecorin354 idea is. Bordeaux is true terroir style of wine that world copies. even legendary regions like Rioja. there would be no Rioja if it wasnt Bordeaux. on the other hand, there are wines in Rioja that express place at its fullest and can be called wine that expresses terroir. those are just two concepts miss matched. and not mutually inclusive. we know what Champaign suppose to be but Champeign hardly ever speaks about specific vineyard. in other words, there are levels to Terroir and most wine media and general knowledge of wine is always about surface level.
I think the British guest mistake pleasurable with fine wine, perhaps his modest background and thé woke culture that is invading UK as well as USA and the rest of Europe has influence wine critics as well…
Certainly, but that is not the point, the question was what is a fine wine and the British gentleman gave a new updated woke definition of it . The other gentleman gave an older definition from a book: a fine wine is what you can purchase at auctions. That is what the people who have the means are looking for, probably because a more refined pleasure can be obtained when sharing these wines with friends I like to believe, rather than just for the mercantile aspect of it...
@pierrecorin354 well, that is exactly why I asked this question. It sparks conversations and discussions. As Andrew Jefford notes - this definition develops and evolves as well. If there would be three different people sitting the definitions would be different, I am certain of it. 🙏🏻
'Modest background'? Andrew Jefford has a deep knowledge of wine and a world-wide reputation in the field. Have you looked at his extensive published material. I think your use of the term 'woke culture' is a throw-away (popularist) perjorative that has nothing to do with Jefford and this conversation.
Great video that dares talk about wine on a high level and digging deep. I love the room for poetry and you three taking your time in staying in (very interesting) topics.
Thank you Agnese for putting this together and being such a good host!
Thank You for watching, this conversation has been one of my highlights of the last year.
@@NoSediment I bet! I think you can see in the video how much fun you all had. Btw, have you ever been to ProWein Agnese?
I am thinking of going this year and am curious as what I can expect...
This is a serious and very high level of wine podcasting. Please keep making these. There isn't much similar content out there.
Thank You very much, support like Yours, gives me energy and motivation’ 🥂
Mr. Andrew is so articulate. You can see how passionate he is about wine with the sharpness of his words and the depth of his explanations.
It is true, amazing conversation partner! 🥂
I enjoyed this conversation so much. Thank you for giving us access to not only your own knowledge and observations, but also the deep knowledge and insights of Nords and Jefford.
Thank You. I was starstruck myself. Nords and Aigars have such a deep knowledge and understanding of wine, it was my absolute pleasure to be with them and discuss these topics. 🙏🏻
Thank you Agnes for a fabulous discussion. When I first bought wine to cellar at the ripe old age of 16, my perception of fine wine was a $5.00 Australian Cabernet Sauvignon from the Clare Valley. That was in the late 1970’s and my perception of fine wine was based on growing up in a house where everyday wine was bought in 2 litre flagons. These days I seek out wines from all over the world travelng to places like Georgia, Slovenia and Santorini to seek out interesting wines many of which I would describe as fine, regardless of ageability or even relative quality. Drinking an orange quevri wine made in Georgia is incomparable to a 1982 Bordeaux and yet both can be considered fine wine.
This is exactly why we wanted to have this conversation, for each of us fine wine can mean so many different things. Thank You for watching. 🙏🏻
Cannot agree more with the comments..Great coversation, passionate, easy going, no hype. Thanks, keep going. Similar ideas, good atmosphere brought me to wine 20yrs ago
Thank You, I think it really depends on the guests, and here I was talking with two great minds!
An absolutely wonderful conversation, just love your podcast interviews. Both Andrew Jefford & Aigars Nords were perfect regarding this subject. I think this is important to show people that fancy chateaus and high prices are not the key factors to be a fine wine. Keep up your good work! Another question, are you finnished with your studies to become a MW yet?
Thank You! 🙏🏻 unfortunately no, I will have to sit the exam next year again. I want to say I knew it (very few pass with first go), but receiving the news was still crushing. 🥺 hopefully next summer. I am already dedicated to studying again.
@@NoSediment, thanks for your reply. I can only wish you good luck and I 'm positive that you will get it next time :)
Best upload ever in the channel's history and probably it's first 1M views vid one year from now.
You are too sweet! 🍷
Great content! I love these types of conversations
Thank You, this was aim. And .. I love to be part of these conversations.
This was a brilliant conversation and makes me yearn to increase my wine knowledge! Thanks for bring this to us...great content.
Thank You very much, so sweet of You to compliment. 🥂
Agnese you're 197 points out 100 ❤ 🍷🥂🍾
I love this episode. Great to see a wine from my home country of Australia. Giaconda Chardonnay is world-class.
It truly is! 🥂🥂🥂
Awesome conversation. Every experienced and new wine drinker needs to see this. “Fine wine are those shared by fine people.” What a fantastic thought. Time, terroir and wine. What a great combination. Thank you.
Thank You, very happy You enjoyed it. 🙏🏻
Really enjoyed this conversation. Great interview!
Thank You, me too. I was happy to be with these people and listen to them discussing this topic. 🥂
Thank you, Agnese, for organising this wonderful conversation, on the elements of fine wine. I agree very much with you on the people factor and your reaction to the wine, part of the place and culture. We have all had good and bad experiences at cellar doors and dickhead winemaker/proprietors, and how you are treated on your arrival, particularly if you are new to the region or winery. As Andrew says when I am drinking a "fine" wine, I do think of the place/people/history and the region that the wine comes from. Being Australian we would also focus on the varietal, not solely on the terroir like the French. Finally, I agree on the wine journey, our own tastes change over time and the industry changes to try and match wine consumer preferences, eg "nutty/buttery oaked chardonnays". Another challenge is the declining wine consumption by young people. Happily, after drinking wine for over forty years, I have defined my fine wine choices, so I will just keep going. Cheers
I think that for me, the criteria is taste. I have reached the age where cellaring a wine for 10-20 years is no longer realistic, it could work out but… do I want to leave a room full of wine for someone who may not appreciate or enjoy it? I don’t have the knowledge that any of you have but I can still find a way to enjoy a glass of wine without getting too involved with detailed analysis. Having said that, I still enjoy listening to your discussion.
Ack! Im looking at 3 bags of apples justvpicked i can barely carry... its cider time and unlike previous years im way busier and so is all my typical help!!! Thanks for wine talk over breaky! Love the coffee table scene
These interviews introduce me to great wine personalities. It was nice to see Andrew back and a delight to see Aigars for the first time. The conversation could have lasted another hour and it would still have seemed too short.
Thank You, very sweet of You! 🙏🏻
‘Fine’ is the better part of anything.
Well said. The next question is what makes a better wine? 🍷 😂😂😂 I did have several interviews that touched upon this subject as well. 🥂 Cheers!
Love this interview series you are doing!
Thank You, I will try to keep them up! 👌
This was a thoroughly enjoyable conversation about wine and about life and I find a commonality with the views and insights shared. I think our individual and collective definition about what a fine wine is always evolving and changing as we age and mature. And I agree even if the art and/or wine is great if the artists or winemakers are nasty individuals I will respectfully pass on it and go to the neighbors/competitors instead. Fascinating to see Syrian wine showcased, always great to see wines from the cradle of wine civilization being re-introduced to us all. Cheers!
Thank You! You always add great insights to the topics of my videos. And yes, that wine was truly great and yet with sad background. 😶
Very nice discussion, Thank you
Thank You! 🥂
While I agree that low intervention grape growing/farming is a wonderful thing - "natural" wine hasnt blown me away. I have never tasted a "natural" wine that didnt taste like it.
I think that natural wine world has changed and evolved so much, and I am happy to see so much wines out there that might be defined as “natural” but has no or very little of that funkiness we sometimes link with natural wine scene. 🥂
The format of moderated discussion is interesting, something you could maybe do more often?
That is something I want to do more often for sure. The only issue is to get all these amaizing people at one spot and agree to spend 2h filmig! 🍿
@NoSediment travel to meet them?
Great discussion!
The idea of having being able to appreciate "perfection" or the peak of wine/food should definitely not prevent us from enjoying more casual and less refined versions in their own right. Having experienced the quality beef in the world (i.e. Hanwoo) prepared in the ideal conditions (i.e. grilled over charcoal overlooking the Han River) does not prevent me from enjoying far less marbled, grass-fed local beef from the Mid-Atlantic U.S. that beautifully seared to a beefy and savory medium. If anything, I feel less guilty trying the latter with wine than the former, which would provoke guilt in having it with anything.
When a winery makes different tiers in different styles with all of them executed comparable in quality relative to their price brackets, all of them should be able to be enjoyed in their own right, on their own timelines, and savored for respective occasions!
You are absolutely correct- this is why I especially liked what Andrew Jefford said, that fine wine should bring intense pleasure. As more casual wine after a long hard day can bring great pleasure as well! 🥂
I totally agree,@@NoSediment! It has to do with being Mindful and in the moment when tasting (rather than chugging) said beverage (wine, beer, liquor/spirit, cocktail, non-alcoholic drink) or food.
It sees to be a given that the famous wine houses that charge crazy prices automatically are rated as making fine wines. Anyone who actually is honest with themselves know that this is not always the case. In the end, the phrase "fine wine" is super subjective and what you consider to be a fine wine may not be my definition of fine wine. No matter how the wine reviewer carries themselves or how they dress or the accent (or unneeded profanity) they use, fine wine is something different to everyone. Thank you for the video though, I enjoyed it.
The fun part is that - not always it is the winery that charges the high price, but rather the price increases due to the middleman. I know many great estates that release their wines at very reasonable prices, and it is the market that drives them up. 😢 but I absolutely love that topic of fine wine has brought so many discussions. 🍷 Cheers!
Fine wine is a community for some. I just traded a Port vintage from 1959 with a wine collector from Denmark that has a Coronation Tawny that will allow me to exchange for a Blandy's from 1932 located in Torino from a British collector.
I'm part of over 20 chat groups pertaining to both wines and beverages in general.
And at least two of my vacations iare focused around a wine region or wine style.
The community can be snobbish art times but that's preferable to the level of ignorance permeating so many discussions.
I agree with you overall. Note, it is unusual that you identify the wine you're getting only as a 1932 Blandy's. Which Madeira grape it is, is crucial, don't you think?
My girlfriend is in love with the flower pattern chair, any idea where it came from?
Looks like a Marimekko pattern.
Unfortunately, it was not filmed in my venue, so I have no way of telling You. 😞 Sorry
I've got a question. Which sparkling wine from Champagne have you tryed during the conversation?
So we enjoyed this bottle: 2013 Pascal Agrapart L'Avizoise Blanc de Blancs Grand Cru Extra Brut
@@NoSediment wow what a stellar Champagne!
fine wine brings intense pleasure
Hahah, yes! One of the main thoughts, I guess! 🥂
Agnes, I think you miss my point. I only brought up Wagner because he was firmly documented as being a horrible human being yet created masterpieces that are influencing composers today. Of course this was not the main point, yet you brought the point up. Out of all the wines you've tasted and enjoyed immensely, don't you think that there are some people creating these wines that would put you off on a personal level ? The main point of the conversation was quality in fine wines and how we quantify that. Certainly you will not meet every winemaker of wines you consider great, so my point is the quality of the wine , not the personality of the winemaker. Nevertheless , I thoroughly enjoyed the interview as it was very enlightening. Santé
Of course I know that, this is exactly why I brought it up. The wine might be great, and I should be able to mark it uninfluenced, 100%. Whether I can enjoy it as much as other great wines is a different question. Completely valid point from Your side!
Most expensive wine I’ve had was £500. it was underwhelming. The best wine I’ve had was £26 with a £13 bottle coming close 2nd. Palate is subjective and taste is subjective.
Best bottle of wines I’ve had / remember are wines I share with my wife when life is tough or with friends that we cherish.
Of course there are some wines that taste like absolutely piss (a particular Shiraz made in Kent, England), you can’t save it with good company!
I completely agree with You, we all have our preferences. Similarly as with colour, it doesn’t mean that blue, green or red is better - it is just a personal taste. However, quality is different, and that can be observed objectively in every industry, including wine! 🍷
Do you fortified wine can be fine wine?
Sure, absolutely. 💯
While it may be a personal thing, I don’t think a wine can be considered a fine wine if they affect a person adversely. So many California Cabernets are great examples. One shouldn’t wake up feeling like their head is the size of a basketball and makes a person congested. I never have this problem with “fine” Burgundy. Having said that, many Butgundy wines are, by design, considered “entry level. While you won’t get a basketball head, they are not considered fine. I would say that they are pedestrian.
I like the definition the one gentlemen offered up: that the wine is worth talking about. Which takes me back to one of your tastings Agnese where your immediate response to one wine was, “Wow”.
I like when wines are described as structured and elegant. I usually think of those wines as fine. But at the same time a simple Pinot Noir from Willamette Valley may not be structured or elegant but they are quite fine.
I know what You mean, truly and shortly even touched upon this subject. But the truth is that sometimes it can be due some intolerances that specifically our body has. Therefore I might not write down all Cabernet Sauvignon’s from Napa’ 😅
I am not sure I agree. Any red wine will give most people indigestion and headaches if they drink too much too close to going to bed. You can say you shouldn't overindulge, but where do you draw the line? If I feel fine with 3 glasses of a very clean but boring and cheap white wine before bed, does that mean any Burgundy that gives me a headache with 3 glasses is not fine wine?
It felt like a waste when Palmer 1982 was opened as the 80th wine of that day, since it is unlikely that you were able to finish it.
We tasted 80 wines during the day, did not drink 80 wines! And after the conversation we had lovely dinner, with rest of the company behind the camera, and all the wines were appreciated! 🍷
@ That's wonderful news! Now, I can finally rest peacefully at night, without the nagging worry about that half-empty Palmer slowly fading away in some forgotten corner. 🎃
I'm not sure I agree. Many rustic wines, homemade or cheap, are interesting to talk about, have a sense of place and can age well. Are they fine wines? What about expensive whites with a definitive sense of place meant to be drank within 2 years of harvest?
We all mentioned them. 😉
Most people consider an oil painting to be "fine art" regardless of the actual quality of the work. Similarly, no matter how many Oscars a film receives, most people won't consider it "fine art". This definition has nothing to do with talent or merit or success and only the medium. Should a definition like this apply to wine?
This is why we discussed this topic! 😉
Agnes , you need to separate out personality with what pleasure you receive from an artist/winemaker. Wagner was a complete asshole but a genius as a musician -composer for example. People are complex
Of course, however, that is not the main topic here. And there is huge difference of people in past and how people are acting in life now (presentism). Let’s just say this - if a person is really lovely I feel I am going to enjoy their work much, much more. 🙏🏻
never get tired of saying that wine world and what is a “fine wine” was defined by culture who drinks tea with milk to soften tannins. edit: terroir talk is very curious. calling out Tuscany for using French varieties, called our Australians for multi regional blends and yet, not calling out Champaign for literally been the least terroir wine in a wine world (oh wait, you called out Champaign too but blamed California for imitating😂) or not calling out Bordeaux for blending 75 different grape varieties, vineyards, plots, casks. I think there are two elements people usually confuse when it comes to terroir. there are wines that express terroir which usually means, wine that expresses the specific location of vineyard and there are terroir wines, which means wines that are define by location, meaning, they use specific unique varieties, specific technics on every step of wine making, fermentation and aging and make unique style of wine. now, in these two definitions of terroir, Bordeaux and in a lesser extent, Champaign fit in only one and not the other. Bordeaux is a definition of true terroir style, they have created something unique that literally every region of wine world tries to copy but hardly a modern Bordeaux can be an example for wine that expresses a specific vineyard. I think what todays Bordeaux expresses the terroir of is unlimited resources. this is why Super Tuscan wines have a potential to express location of vineyards and vintages but Super Tuscan wines can never been a terroir wines as a style.
I think Champagnes are especially terroir driven wines, no questions there! We specifically discuss this topic with one of the top experts on Champagne Peter Liem in one of my other podcasts! 🥂 Cheers!
I have no idea what you want us to understand here. Perhaps you are pulling my leg !
@@pierrecorin354 idea is. Bordeaux is true terroir style of wine that world copies. even legendary regions like Rioja. there would be no Rioja if it wasnt Bordeaux. on the other hand, there are wines in Rioja that express place at its fullest and can be called wine that expresses terroir. those are just two concepts miss matched. and not mutually inclusive. we know what Champaign suppose to be but Champeign hardly ever speaks about specific vineyard. in other words, there are levels to Terroir and most wine media and general knowledge of wine is always about surface level.
Damn, I still don t get it, I am too dumb. Don t worry, it's fine.
I think the British guest mistake pleasurable with fine wine, perhaps his modest background and thé woke culture that is invading UK as well as USA and the rest of Europe has influence wine critics as well…
But I agree, one of the wine’s main functions is to be bring pleasure. If it fails to do so.. 🤷♀️
Certainly, but that is not the point, the question was what is a fine wine and the British gentleman gave a new updated woke definition of it . The other gentleman gave an older definition from a book: a fine wine is what you can purchase at auctions. That is what the people who have the means are looking for, probably because a more refined pleasure can be obtained when sharing these wines with friends I like to believe, rather than just for the mercantile aspect of it...
@pierrecorin354 well, that is exactly why I asked this question. It sparks conversations and discussions. As Andrew Jefford notes - this definition develops and evolves as well. If there would be three different people sitting the definitions would be different, I am certain of it. 🙏🏻
'Modest background'? Andrew Jefford has a deep knowledge of wine and a world-wide reputation in the field. Have you looked at his extensive published material. I think your use of the term 'woke culture' is a throw-away (popularist) perjorative that has nothing to do with Jefford and this conversation.
The sound is horrible
I don't know what kind of speakers you have but I was listening to this on my great headphones and the sound is 9/10. Actually very good audio!
Sounds good to me
Yep, tons of clipping distortion from the 2 guys, very harsh indeed.
The sound is fine.
It sounded fine on my speakers. 😞