Tara TM-9: What a Tangled Web of Intrigue for a Crappy Gun
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Tara Aerospace is an arms factory in Montenegro that was privatized around 2013 or 2014, and a major stake in it was purchased by one Heinrich Thomet (formerly of Brugger & Thomet, and then the basis for a character in "War Dogs"). The first firearm the new Tara produced was the TM-9, and it was not very good.
The basic design concept is fine - it's a modern style of service pistol; polymer-framed, striker-fired, and chambered for 9x19mm. It has interchangeable grip backstraps and a rail for a light (no optics cut; it was too early for that). Where it differs most obviously from other options is the use of a true double-action-only trigger. The striker is fully forward at rest, and the trigger pull is responsible for fully cocking and then releasing it. This makes for a very long and heavy trigger, but it also simplifies the trigger mechanics and obviates the need for a manual or trigger safety.
The first production of TM-9 pistols was not of particularly good quality, but the factory needed money and so a batch was sold to a European distributor. They were not intended to end up in the US, but did end up purchased by Century, who brought them into the country and then discovered that they basically didn't run reliably. Slides not going fully into battery was a major issue in particular. While trying to figure out how to deal with this, Century secured a deal to sell them all to Gander Outdoors, which planned to have them all overhauled by America's Gunsmith Shop. Before that was completed, though, Gander decided to just abandon gun sales entirely and sold the guns back to Century as a loss.
Some began to get out onto the market, and American buyers were pretty annoyed at the reliability problems (not that you would know it form the generally-positive reviews in the gun press at the time). Having never intended the guns to get to the US, Tara's answer was to declare that the early production guns were actually only intended for use with "rubber bullets" and were never supposed to be sold as live guns at all (the notice is on their web site, which I cannot link to because of TH-cam rules). The gun in this video is specifically listed in their warning by serial number, by the way.
Eventually, Century sold the remaining TM-9s to Centerfire Systems, who is now blowing them out pretty cheaply, with full visibility of this backstory (for the record, I acquired this one before the sale to Centerfire). Tara, meanwhile, is trying to sell their newer and presumably better model to Century, who so far refuses to buy any until the "rubber bullet" warning nonsense is removed form Tara's web site.
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Not only is it unreliable, but it also throws the brass back into the shooter's face! LOL
I sense an Elbonian defense contract!
It should have a warning stamped on it. "Do not fire while wearing a V-neck!"
@@henryturnerjr3857 especially if you happen to be female! xD
(are those shells hot? could they actually burn you? ^^)
Also it has no trigger dingus. 😂
@@peka2478Very much so. Lady friend of mine has a brass burn scar in a very awkward place because of hot brass getting down the front of her shirt.
@@peka2478 yeah my ex gf had a big ass scar between her tits, flew in there from the guy next to her, I think it was a 308 case
Tara's genius is unparalleled: they have invented the semi-bolt action
please don't give them ideas
It’s a feature, not a defect!
Full semi-bolt action.
No it's a tripple-action trigger. It is a new saftey feature!
This cracked me up 😂 thank you for brightening my day!
They nailed the “Generic Pistol from Video Game” aesthetic
Right! I keep looking at it and thinking hmm kinda looks like an XD... or a Glock... with a little CZ in the mix maybe. You nailed it with your summation.
Hell this is the new pistol for Baldwin. Only simunition ammo is allowed on set and everyone else has Glocks(also with simunition) if the scene is unacceptable or Baldwin does something unsafe he is shot ten times in the nuggets!
@@rob6850 Finest Eurpopean Glzak polymer 9mm for all your problem solved!
Where the gun is just named '9mm' or 'Pistol'
Perfect for aspiring Unity game developers to download for free and rename it "9mm Pistol 1"
So, while Gander was in possession of some of these pistols I worked behind the gun counter at one of their stores. We had dozens of these pistols, but nobody would buy them. At the time I knew nothing about them, but recognized just how crude they were compared to most modern pistols. It was my job to sell guns, and that I did. However, if a gun was garbage (like a lot of what Gander was selling) I would absolutely steer people away from it. I could not in good conscience sell someone a device they may need to save their life or another’s that is likely sub par. I am really glad this video exists to explain the backstory of these pistols, and the confirmation that they are in fact hot garbage.
Side note here: These pistols were not the only questionable firearms Gander came into possession of. They bought tons of firearms in lots, some of them looked like they came directly out of evidence lockers. Things like non function Saturday night specials and such. However, there were a lot of new firearms sold as “used”. What I think happened was a distributor was liquidating and sold all their inventory to Gander, but it couldn’t be resold as new so it was sold at a steep discount. This was also around the time Remington shut down production temporarily when it went under, and tons of Remingtons were sold through us this way as well.
"Have you heard of our "protection plan" for a cool, additional $30 and would you like a $30 box of hollow points?? Also lemme have your broke ass apply for our credit card at 200% apr" I did the same, trying to steer people towards a better weapon, while trying to keep within their means. The metrics driven bullshit was maddening.
I have to admit I was tempted to buy one for a toy. I have dependable weapons for safety. I'm glad I didn't; even toys should work better.
I picked up a usp 45 and cz 83 for absolute steals from gander. Wish they got back into gun sales.
@@EvanDickersonM81
I think they're extinct. Gone completely, at least brick & mortar.
Gotta question kimber or colt 1911?
The fact that tara in spanish mean defect/disability make that name for this gun even better
Quite impressive they made a pistol that, totally clean, performs about as well as most guns after a McCollum mud test
....and has that innovative "barrel reset".....
A must test sounds interesting. Much more devastating than those dust tests, you've added grape hulls sugar and water to the mix. That wouldn't just make your gun jam, it'd make jam!
@@coaxill4059 ha! I’ve corrected the spelling, thank you :)
...or like a brand new Kimber. 😁
Imagine if the mud magically made it better
I have one of these. Bought it about three years ago for $219 with two magazines. I discovered that changing the magazine springs to springs from an M&P solved the feed problems. The magazine now hold 16 instead of 17 but the pistol is more reliable. This is a hobby piece for me to see if I can make it work better. Best wishes.
I wonder if you can upload a video of that.
What Ian got is what I expected to find when I bought an unheard of HS2000 9mm on Gunbroker for $247.50 in 2000 A.D. What I got instead was a very nicely crafted pistol that has shot thousands of rounds since then. Going on year 23 and its still my favorite 9mm out of dozens. I do not get attached to polymer guns but HS2000 is the one exception. For those who don't know the HS2000 became the Springfield Inc model XD/XD9.
Everyone needs a hobby!
I had wondered if a spring job might help it out.
and best luck!
I love how they ended up making a single action pistol with double action trigger.
It’s semi-semi-automatic
@@Matt-xc6sp i was refering To The fact Ian had to push The action forward almost half The shots he took, because it didn't quite go into battery every now And then
@@anttitheinternetguy3213 I know. I was saying it’s semi automatic only semi of the time.
@@Matt-xc6sp ohhh sorry now i saw The double semi haha, My mistake
You know it's good when the trigger design has more in common with a staple gun than most modern firearms.
"You just got stapled!" That storied catchphrase we all remember from yore;)
nailed it :)
As someone involved in the gun industry this is the most gun industry story I've heard in my life 🤣
As a Montenegrin, this is the most Montenegrin story i've heard in my life.
man, i think i love the convoluted stories behind awful guns the most
The zip 22 was one of my favorites!
Chinese warlord pistols have entered the chat.
Good, normal guns are super boring.
I'm glad I'm not the only person fascinated by FORGOTTEN WEAPONS videos about an obscure, lousy gun that I never knew existed, never heard of, and have never seen.
Its a safety feature to prevent full auto conversion. Cant slam fire if the slide doesnt close
Delete that comment now before the ATF sees it and gets some new ideas.
But you CAN have an out of battery discharge, which is a NASTY fuckywucky
@@calebdean2440forcing us to buy from them exclusively
Cheap, plastic, legendary, reliable...yes, I wasn't talking about the gun. I was talking about Ian's watch - Casio F-91W. It may look cheap and disposable, but it can run for decades with reasonable accuracy on a single battery. Tells time, date and day, also has a 60-min stop watch and an alarm...what else do you need when you're not wearing a suit or getting into serious water?
I think I saw somebody in suit with Casio, it was FBI director, no corruption there haha
@@robrob9050 Was it at least metallic? haha
@@vaclav_fejt No man he had El Cheapo plastic Casio. Edit: yt video
Robert Mueller's Watch: The Casio DW-290. Describes it more. 😂
@@robrob9050 Hey, it's the Mission: Impossible watch! Not dressy, but very tacticool.
(What I had in mind was something like A-158 or A-700; cheap, but elegant)
It's human nature to be fascinated by train wrecks...and that Tara definitely has left the tracks. The brass bonking off your hat, is the pièce de résistance. That sad sack of a gun does everything badly. Perfection. Thanks for sharing.
The brass oscillating between bonking off/flying over the hat and ejecting anemically between his arms had me laughing.
That reminds me. Any other military/ex military who were left handed have the annoyance of hot brass landing on your arm from the M16-A2?
I mean, brass bouncing off your head/arms happens with Glocks as well, so it's not a consequence of it being poorly made. There's no real directing it with this style of open ejection port, unlike something like the 1911 which is designed to spit it out the side.
Even when Canada was on the verge of banning handguns, these pieces of crap were not getting bought.😂
..but...but...but..."perfection".....actually I was just thinking....such perfection that I am shocked that my current Canadian government did not procure these to replace their HI-Powers....they are after all highly concerned about our soldiers safety.....so much so that on the edge of the current Ukraine conflict they have to scrounge helmets and belletproof vests from whomever will help out.
I saw these for sale cheap .glad I didn't bite!
Now getting a hold of one of these is gold simply because it’s a firearm
@@troy3456789An additional $400 would buy a firearm that’s functional out of the box.
They were hoping mass shooters will acquire it for bad bad intent, since it will most likely ruin their mass shooting :S
The amount of daylight you can see between the slide and the frame in the outdoor shots is nuts
I have that gun, if you polish the firing-pin safety button (remove the sharp edges on the lever and on the button) it works great. easy fix. (and I'm not a gunsmith, I'm a mechanic who repairs chainsaws )😁
I was wondering if there was a DIY fix for this, making it an ok budget gun.
And yeah, I just saw this today, it dropped during some especially interesting times for me, and I'm playing catch-up.
Yea seems like a simple fix.. the layout is really simple which makes it really easy to work on it..
So is the slide (or some other component that's holding back the slide) getting stuck on the safety button? And releasing the trigger makes the button go down, so the slide is released, or so I'd imagine.
@@corrinestenman5683 see, you could get one of these and fix it up and still have a generally AWFUL handgun, or you could buy a used taurus g2/g3 that just works. sure they are weird taurus semiautos, but ive seen em for 150 with 2 mags before, and they just run
@@marcusborderlands6177so would you recommend the Taurus rather than this TARA in this same very low price range?
I'm thinking that the trigger pull safety is hanging up on the plunger in the slide when you still have the trigger pulled, then when you release the trigger the slide can move forward but has lost the forward momentum it would have had otherwise. The plunger in the slide looks a bit square-ish, maybe rounding the edge of the plunger and the actuator in the trigger bar would reduce the friction and allow it to go back into battery better.
I though the sqme
I'm curious if the plunger catching on the trigger bar was by design. Otherwise the forward momentum combined with the plunger being depressed when the slide goes into battery would allow the striker to potentially continue forward and fire another round since it doesn't get caught by the sear. Maybe a cheap way to implement a "disconnector" with the unintended consequence of making the gun not go into battery consistently.
@@morgan12x X to doubt on the striker moving forward on momentum. Considering how heavy the triggerpull is, I doubt the striker can overcome the spring by pure momentum alone.
I agree with revgregory here and might add that the slide might be a bit heavy, something's up with the recoil spring or there's more friction in the system as needs to be. Maybe the rail tabs on the frame and the rails in the slide are not exactly the right size or shape. The brass isn't ejecting with nearly enough gusto to my untrained eyes.
This honestly seems perfect for a "project gun" for when you want to try out those dremmel tools and pretend you're a gunsmith.
@@morgan12x The spring on that striker design works in both directions, I would doubt that the striker inertia would be great enough to overcome the spring to actually cause it to fire when the slide closed. Haven't actually looked at one up close though.
Easy to check by removing the striker safety. Not advocating carrying it like that or any other way, just saying for testing purposes ok.
I bought one for less than 200 doll hairs. It came and was absolutely stellar. I had 1 mag that had a last round FTF. The other mag ran fine. I stretched the mag spring and both mags run great now. I probably only have 50 rounds through it but zero issues after fixing the mag spring. For what I paid for it, its a stellar deal.
Proof that "it works for me" is not an indication of quality.
200 doll hairs? LOL, that auto correction is a riot!
It's like what you'd expect to receive if you ordered a Glock from Wish.
To me its more of an alibaba m&p40 lol
That's a good one!! Or TEMU. 🤣
Golck 9ww... like a Chinese Wauser C96.
A 'Grock'?
The slide staying out of battery with the trigger held back will probably go away after a few hundred more rounds. But then you'll start getting feed issues because the safety plunger impacts the magazine feedlips and starts to bash em in, causing a burr. Their magazine follower also allows too much tilt which can cause feed issues. Some parts on the TM-9 are interchangeable with a Glock. I wrote an article and did a YT video outlining a bunch of details.
I've got one of these, it's not great, on the other hand the TM-9X is a significant improvement. We loved our first one so much we picked up a second one.
How much are they selling for?
@@FuzedBox We liked the X so much we bought a second one. When I found the original models (a year or so ago) I bought one of them to experience the difference. The pistolw as so bad in tabletop (video not published) that I've got no interest in shooting it. It just sits in the collection for reference. The difference between the original and X is significant.
@GBGuns I meant to edit my comment and not delete! Oops. My FFL informed me that I did indeed buy the original... for $90 more than centerfiresystems sells them for ($185). Oh well, it's not bad for a curio. Just found an X for $350 and bought it a few minutes ago.
I'm really intrigues by these, and wanted both models anyway. Thanks for your feedback; I think everyone is just jumping on the hatewagon for a potentially good bargain pistol.
For prospective TM-9X buyers: Be VERY thorough reading through the product information and UPC numbers, because stores and private parties are selling the originals with the X stock images.
The slide not going back into battery is something you see out of some early airsoft pistols. With the operating springs super light there wasn't enough energy in the system to overcome even minor dust, grit, or burrs from manufacturing. Or the extra weight of the cosmetic (and also super light) "suppressor" the user screwed onto the muzzle.
You can actually see this happen on screen in "Tears Of The Sun" when the SEAL team is clearing the village. As one of them moves forward with his suppressed Mk.23 (almost certainly the airsoft version by Tokyo Marui) the slide stays out of battery and is visible that way just before the cut in the shot.
A hearty "Good job!" to Tara for reproducing this key feature of a classic early airsoft pistol, and even improving on it. The TM Mk.23 would not go back into battery when you released the trigger, you had to push it...
...as the actress said to the bishop.
I sold airsoft out of a paintball store so long ago, had a TM Mk.23 there for a long time, it basically became the "goof around the shop" gun. And it definitely had this issue as well. Haven't thought about that in many years. They were quite pricey too.
@@brandonwhitesell8987 I know. When I was young and foolish I st up an airsoft load-outaround a TM M4A1 and...a TM Mk.23. Expensive, plasticky - because Japanese regs - huge, and all the ergonomics of an angle iron. Also veey limited in how to carry it because there's only one holster for it. Or was, because nobody even make that anymore.
And it, too wouldn't go back into battery reliably with the dummy suppressor screwed on.
I swear my unmarex airguns are better made than this pos
I would actually really love seeing Ian try the rounds specified for these to debunk the story
I was wondering what flag that was!
Montenegro. Man it's always nice seeing more obscure countries with their firearms, historically I can see why Montenegro has an arsenal but still very nice to see this rare gun and it's wacky story. Thank you.
"The gun is specifically designed to be shot badly"...I bet if you turn it 90 degrees and fire it gangster style it works flawlessly 😄 It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on what exactly in the design is causing all these malfunctions. Thanks for a fun one
That would also place the brass nicely to your side... you might be on to something
My TM-9 has both single-action and double action mode. After you squeeze the trigger and fire a round, no NOT let the trigger go back forward. Slowly release the trigger until it "clicks", then you are in single action mode and the trigger pull is quite nice. I believe this is detailed in the manual. So, just like a Sig P226, the first trigger pull is double action, but you can then fire the remaining rounds in single-action mode, a long as you don't fully release the trigger. This makes it fairly nice to shoot.
That's not single action, that's just riding the trigger reset.
Valid. Manual calls it DARE- Double Action Rapid Engagement. To me, it's like SA/DA on my P226.
Unfortunately, Ian's didn't go back into battery until the last bit of trigger release. That's actually an interesting idea, to engage the "safety" in the form of a long trigger pull automatically. I haven't shot many DA/SA pistols so I have no idea how well that would work in practice.
This the first review I’ve seen on these. Interestingly, a number made it into Canada… unsurprisingly even at $250 they never sold well, even just prior to the handgun ban, they were the last pistols on the shelves… I wonder how many are still in the gouging dealers inventory that we’re trying to sell them for $500… maybe these will someday make it back into the US market and add another chapter of perfection in the Tara story.
I got an email from a shop about these a few weeks ago and looked pretty hard into them. For the price they were asking, I thought it might be a fun piece to have in 20 years when it ends up on FW. Guess I was a few years late in guessing its FW debut.
“Century Arm’s gunsmiths took them to the range to see how they performed.”
The word “gunsmiths” is doing a lot of work there Ian 😂
I have a soft spot for weird/crap guns like this. I wonder how difficult it is to fix this-what the weakpoints are, what it would be to replace them, ect.
If they are all like Ian's copy, it shouldn't be too difficult.
The slide looks to be hanging up on the trigger bar on the return trip.
A little tweaking with the trigger bar geometry and a heavier recoil spring could probably fix it right up.
This video was very interesting to me, not really because of the pistol it is as generic as they come but because it doesn't work. It was fun speculating on what is causing it to malfunction and potential solutions. It seems like a heftier spring might help and my best guess as to why it holds open slightly with the trigger depressed is maybe the tab that depresses the button for the firing pin block is catching when the slide tries to go back into battery since it doesn't reset. This almost makes me want to get one just to tinker with and see if I'm right or not
It seems that way to me, also. I’d love to see further investigation.
I think it would be fun to do a follow up video and go into a deep dive investigation with an armourer into what is causing the issues.
If it's an issue with feeding, It seems like you could do a pretty serious feed ramp and chamber polish, and potentially get a stronger spring for the slide. When I first built my VZ61 It would not chamber at all, but a decent polish job has it running like a sewing machine. Could also be that this thing was developed around one particular type of ammo and it's really picky as a result
please
This is probably the most interesting story for a some what functional collectable. It'll be worth over a thousand in about a century.
With inflation that will be a decrease in value
This video alone is probably going to bump up the price. The story makes for a good conversation piece.
My guess, based on what you said and what we see, is that the slide is not supposed to snag on the trigger linkage and the reason it works better during rapid fire is that, to get the next shot off, you are 'resetting' your trigger finger fast enough that the slide is not hanging up on the linkage. If the slide is leaving a witness mark on the trigger linkage, you can see if it is feasible to file down the linkage to get the slide moving freely.
It seems like a bit of deburring, stronger recoil spring, and perhaps a small angle change could render it functional. One positive is it would have a second strike capacity on stubborn primers if other difficulties were resolved.
You know you fucked up when Ian starts the video off with your company's weapon malfunctioning
19:40 interesting ejection pattern there (or lack thereof). In fact it looks like towards the end of each magazine the ejection gets weaker and weaker
I got one out of curiosity from centerfire(7/23) thinking the story was hilarious. I have had the opposite experience. I did lube it up generously before firing. I have had only 1 failure to extract on a subsonic round(this ammo hates many guns) out of the 150 fired. Hollowpoints even went nice. I was also intrigued by the unique double action trigger. The shop I work for has the TM9X that is only slightly cosmetically different. I know it isn't alot of range time but I'm happy for the money.
Obviously they spent all the budget on the fancy feature. Ya know, the captive recoil spring. Trying to out cheap Hi-Point is a real challenge ya know. 😁
All it needs is a pair of foward assist plungers, one on each side, to keep it ambidextrous!
I am intrigued by the concept of the DA semiauto. Simple. Good capacity. Perhaps the trigger could be improved simply by a cam as on the Ruger LCR. Maybe. Or perhaps making a hammer fired system. Ian I liked the back story. It substantiates your other stories about the problems of firearms development/manufacture.
I think it's like a highpoint in the way that you'd keep it in a tool box or bathroom where you normally wouldn't think of keeping a gun and don't mind forgetting about it. At least with highpoint you actually get great customer service.
sounds like a great way of getting it stolen and used against you. just saying.
Looks like just your run of the mill
Glock........
Nah it's fine.
i remember rebuilding a glock incorrectly and it had that same issue where the slide would not go fully forwards until you release the trigger can't remember what it was now but it was exactly like that
So, Zip .22, Cobray Terminator, Tara TM-9. Ian is helping me compile a list of guns I never want to own, despite being unable to to begin with.
Forgot the Crossfire Mk1, an over/under pump action rifle and shotgun hybrid. Ian made a video about it forever ago. Would list some more older/rarer firearms that you probably don't want either, but at the same time, you could say yes based on anything except taking one out to the range.
@@No-mq5lw Did I?
From the sound of it, all that really needed to be changed to get it working properly wound be 1. adjusting the sear bar to drop lower at full travel 2. some mild geometry changes to the lock up and 3. some adjustments to the recoil spring pressure.
Other than that, there really doesn't seem to be anything fundamentally wrong with the design. Perhaps if there was a way to make it da/sa with a manual decocker, it could sell decently well and carve out a place for itself in the market. Making it an affordable option for private security and small Police departments.
I have the Tm-9X. An updated version of this handgun. Ive shot over 1,000 rounds thru it now with zero malfunctions. Its very accurate and ive been impressed with the quality. Their 1st gen may have had problems but im happy with the gen 2 and would buy another based on my experiences. Your mileage may vary.
I hope that Ian puts a video on the Tm-9X here. I like "crooked man gets straight" stories!
16:57 I'm pretty sure that this little tab is what *causes all those malfunctions* by catching on the safety button in the slide at the end of the firing cycle _if you don't release the trigger quickly enough._ It is also what actually prevents the gun from *automatic fire* in case the striker is heavy enough to slam-fire the round being chambered (with the trigger still pulled; 17:44) 😎
I can’t help but wonder if a slightly heavier recoil spring would help with the slide issues
It seems like the issue with going into battery might actually be the firing pin safety button catching on the little lever that pushes it down. If you look while the gun is disassembled it doesn't look like there is any way for the trigger bar to get pushed down by that button as the slide comes forwards and there isn't enough of a slope on the trigger bar or the firing pin safety button to cause the button to push itself shut as the slide comes forwards
Ian, every single one of your videos is archive worthy. Please dont ever stop what you do. You are the undisputed best at what you do, and i watch at least 1 video every single day. Thank you for everything
Every firearms manufacturer/ designer should have to watch at least 24 hours of your content before even thinking about making a gun. You include the best history/lore, best technical analysis, and an overall fantastic "3rd party" perspective. You are 1st on my top 3 on TH-cam accounts.... out of every account that has ever existed or will in the future. An absolute legend among gun buffs, history buffs, and youtube addicts alike. Thank you from the bottom of my heart
What a start contrast from their newer pistols, which seem to be a hell of a lot better.
I have an tm9 Tara, but after review by Ian I Will be not missing a single minute to get it out from my collection.
If you have a collection, keep it as a collector's item. It has value just from history. Put a "don't use" flag on it, put preservative on it, and put it into the dark corner of your safe.
@kevinallies1014 such a good words give me courage on my decision.
Thank Kevin.
Nothing that a heavy oiling and gun medic cant fix it worked for me perfectly after that 🙏🙏
Strangely entertaining range session.
“Perfection” is used to sell lots of mediocre pistols 😂
Yea
When your Patreon money goes to buy a bad gun but you get a great story and video!
Probably just the interest from his bank account paid for this one.
Ngl I would buy this because in 20 years it will really be a forgotten weapon
I think the reason why it works when shooting quickly is because of the quick trigger reset. If you don't let go the the trigger quickly it holds the slide from locking. When taking slow shots we don't usually reset the trigger as quickly as we can like we do when shooting quickly...
Not the worst ghetto blaster out there, and definitely one of the more interesting ones.
Do you think you could do a video on the Walther P99 or P99AS? It's got an odd firing mechanism, as one of the few DA/SA striker-fired guns.
Looks like the trigger bar piece meant to press up the fire pin safety piece gets stuck to the same as the slide goes to battery, thats why it stays slightly out of battery, and when the trigger is released it allows the slide to sit flush...
A batch of those found their way into one of the firearm shops in Poland. They were priced about 1/3 of a price of a glock 19 and sold out pretty quickly. I had one in my hands, wouldn't want it even if it was free.
It would be interesting to have a good gunsmith look at it and see if it could be reworked.
I, for one, would love to see a History Of (or Interview With) Century Arms. It would be fascinating to hear someone actually associated with the company explain themselves to the American firearms community. In fact, I actually would love to see such a thing for some of the other "semi-controversial" manufacturers/importers also: Vector, Group Industries, Sarco, RPB, MAC, SWD, and especially Interarms. I'm probably forgetting a few obvious ones.
Needs the "Tara tap" to get it back into battery... must be trying to go for some of that H&K cool factor
In the beginning the pistol didn’t jam, it just smiled and said hi!
It ir hilarious because the word “Tara” in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese can mean “defect/ faulty” and on top of that the payoff “perfection” 😅
This gun was so powerful it changed the linguistics of three languages with a new word.
Love that distinctive "ka-chunk" after each shot. Who needs to work on trigger reset when the slide needs to reset firzt!
Dude, I had an airsoft gun 25 years ago who also had that little "click" when you released the trigger. I'm feeling old now.
Think it has something to do with the fact the trigger bar doesn't drop down (like most striker fired guns) and allow the striker safety plunger to slide up on top of it. The fact it will go into battery most of the time when you release the trigger confirms that as the sear on the striker isn't engaged at that point and releasing the trigger drops the bar.
I've heard of a "two stage trigger" but a "two stage slide into battery" is new to me :)).
Montenegrins (Crnogorci; plural) actually got up from their arses, and actually did (made) something. This is an impressive feat on itself!🤯
They made it in the spirit of their people it works once but then has to take a long break before it works again.
notice how easy it was to remove the recoil spring. I bet a spring with a few more coils would alleviate the battery issue
I had a P80 with this exact issue. The cruciform on a 3rd party part was not bent properly. An OEM cruciform/trigger did the job and fixed it completely.
Try taking out the firing pin safety (if it will fire when removed and not fall to bits), I think its catching on that. If it is then maybe filing a slope on the safety and reinserting might help.
Thanks for tuning in, for another video of Forgettable Weapons
That first shot was the shooting world equivalent of “It was a dark and stormy night.”
00:09 - I LOLd...Thanks, Ian, I needed that laugh. Please carry on the fascinating, entertaining, & awesome work you do.
The trigger being held back is what causes it to fail to go into battery. When you let go of the trigger, it immediately goes into battery, most of the time. Seems like the proper way to use it, in lieu of someone actually going through it and shaving down where it rubs on the return, would be to immediately let go of the trigger as soon as it goes off. That's very counterinituitive to how most people use their firearm.
10:19 Double Action on striker fired means Staple Gun😂
i can see a DIY community developing around this thing. It's a shame there were only 3,000 of them. It's a perfect pistol for the tinkerer, not expensive enough to be a problem if you wreck it, but bad enough for those people so inclined to attempt to improve it and share that with other users.
Wow.... that's a loooooot of visible recoil spring viewing from the profile.
And the grittiness of the sound of working the slide..... yeeeeeeeeeeechhhhh
Fit and finish were definitely a "suggestion" rather than a "rule"
I think the firing pin safety is catching on the protruding trigger mechanism part that pushes the safety up, like it doesn't want to slide over it properly, but when you release the trigger the trigger part lowers just enough for the slide to click forward.
The irony of this gun's name has me cracking up... it's Perfect!
When you can see daylight between the slide and the frame ... that's Montenegro!
What a great training tool! You can actually practice clearing malfunctions with this gun, but you dont have to worry about injuries. If I had a school, I'd buy all of them that I could.
My engineering eye says poor fit between rails, burrs or out of tolerance shape of the rails, slightly weak recoil spring, or too strong magazine spring. Swapping springs and a little smoothing of the rails would probably fix it. The fact that it releases with the trigger is also a tell. Maybe at the rear of its travel the sear is sticking up or out somewhere and catching it. I'd look for a witness mark on it and the slide somewhere they are not supposed to make contact.
The perfect gun to enthusiastic shoot in the Air at a wedding.
The adventurous side of me says it's so cheap I should buy one just as a challenge to my hobby smith skills. My financially responsible side is screaming No!!! LOL, it's an interesting design. Maybe of the kinks are worked out and the can recover from their stigma there could be a place for these on the ultra affordable market.
If it worked, it would be at least a lot prettier than a hi point, if nothing else.
The modern version of the WW2 Liberator, a zipgun to get yourself a corpse that can be harvested for a real weapon.
It’s like the bastard child of a Sig slide and a Glock grip. The naming possibilities are just as cursed:
The Glig.
The Slock.
The Glock Sauer.
I always find these kinds of stories to be very interesting. Thanks Ian!
It's almost like the slide has to stop and think before fully going back into battery.
That hesitation is a feature not a bug! Bear with me here. Most shooting situations people just pull and not aim. This ensures you have time to remember you are supposed to aim. Ya gotta love the ingenuity. Break Free might help
The slide essentially being caught by the trigger mechanism terrifies me. What if it wears down decides it wants to be an automatic for a magazine.
Years ago I had a H & K VP 70, with a similar double action only trigger. It was very accurate and reliable, but the trigger was horrendous. I had to jury rig up a trigger pull scale, to measure the trigger pull. It was over 17 lbs. I really wanted to keep it, because of it's reliability and accuracy. But cut it loose because of the terrible trigger pull. Even with the Wolff aftermarket trigger springs, the trigger pull was crap.
Some of the European 9 mm ammo is loaded much hotter than U.S. commercial. I cronoed some of their 9 mm military ammo. At over 1350 FPS with a 124 grain bullet. Maybe that is what the TM-9 was made for? Rather than the anemic U.S. white box stuff.
Perhaps a heavier recoil spring rather than hotter ammo, is the answer to the problem of not going into battery? In the past when I had similar problems. I jury rigged various weights of first generation Glock recoil springs from Wolff, to get heavier recoil spring weigh. If it's possible that the TM-9 can be made to function with first generation Glock springs. That might be the answer to it's functioning problems?
The little metal tab sticking up above the right rear frame rail looks an awful lot like a Glock connector. The Ruger SR9 series had that, too.
As someone who worked behind the gun counter at the #1 Gander Mountain in the US. It doesn't surprise me that they made a deal for these pistols. It was a terrible company to work for and the poor decisions management made drove that company into the ground.
Update and range report: I bought two of these and CLP'd the first one and it ran with no problems. I didn't lube the second and it would only fire two or three times. I lubed it with CLP and now it runs perfect. Don't sleep on these, I'm very pleased.
70 percent of the time,it works every time. Obscure weapons are great, but I just love Ian's behind the scenes tea with shady companies.