The consolidated program is the backbone of my routine, and I’ve been getting really good results...! R.I.P. Mike Mentzer, the rightful 1980 Mr Olympia ...!
I’ve been doing Mikes ideal routine 1 chest back 2 legs 3 shoulders arms 4 legs and honestly can’t believe the results. Just to give an example I’d been stuck on about 135lbs for three sets of 8-10 of leg extensions for months if not years. Slogging away in the gym, up to six times a week. No increases. First HIT session I do 140lbs for 10. Max. Absolute failure. A week later sat down and rattled out 140lbs for 16(!) reps. When I got to ten reps I had to look down and make sure I had the right weight. Never seen anything like it really. A month later and I just did 190 for 10 plus a few eccentrics with drop sets etc. I wouldn’t usually comment on videos but this stuff genuinely works and I’m absolutely loving the gym again. Anyway thank you for the video. Might try the consolidated routine soon. 👍
@@Eiseman-- no i didnt but I am running that routine now.And my friend did it and does it for a year now on.His squat went from 60 kg to 140 kg for 12 reps.Have you tried the routine?
I think it’s because for the first 2-3 weeks most people feel a little flat during the rest time for recovery, but after a few weeks you start seeing reps improve and also muscle starts to get shocked and start adapting
@@R0369-v9v that’s good to hear then 😁 my Nephew who is 23 won’t listen to Mike. Comes out with protein synthesis only lasts 24 hours, so need to train 5/6 days a week.
After listening to this video I still can see even to this day see how effective this program is. I have recently started using this program after being out of the gym for 6 months due to accident in which I broke both legs and ruptured both quad tendons in both knees. After having 4 surgeries at once on both legs I was bed ridden for a month before I was allowed to walk again. It was like starting over again learning to walk. Recently about 3 weeks ago I decided to start training again to rebuild my legs and build back up the strength in my knees. I finally gave up on physical therapy because of their methods and lack on strength progress in my knees. My chiropractor who was a weighlifer and football player in college suggested I use my own knowledge to build myself backup. I am now using the consolidated program with a slight twist of two sets once every 7 days. I am doing dips and leg presses and than 7 days later I am doing seated rows with leg extensions. Due to the leg injuries I am unable to do any dead lifts or squats but I might once I am fully recovered. The main point I wanted to make was the progress I have made after only two workouts for my upper body. I know anyone reading this might be thinking that it is strength that I am only regaining but the progress after only two workouts blows my mind even at my current age of 65 years old. I will regain the strength that I had and I can bet the farm I will pass where I was at. My dips went from 110 lbs for 10 reps on the first workout to 115 lbs for 17 reps and my seat rows went for 110 pounds for 7 reps to 110 pounds for 11 reps. So if you do the math that would be a 56% in strength on the rows and a 70 increase for the dips in only two workouts. I used a 4-2-4 rep protocol meaning 4 seconds on the positive. two second hold a the top of the movement and a 4 second negative on the lowering of the weight. On the last rep I would do a static hold for as long as possible and than lower the weight in a slow controlled manner taking as long as possible to lower the weight. This is making the one set as intense as possible and I think will make the gains all the greater. Once again Mike was right!
As a "midget of recovery" myself, I am going to jump on the consolidation program from today, after being beaten up and disheartened by many of the other 'bodybuilding' programs i have tried in the past to no avail. After listening to your channel, heavily, over the last few days; its makes enough logical sense for me to implicate these principles. Thanks for the uploads/information, you're service is much appreciated
After training for over ten years I had hit a plateau. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get any bigger, so I still went to the gym because I love lifting but I made peace with thinking I had reached my max genetic potential. I heard about this workout through the book "The Four Hour Body" by Tim Ferris, and decided to give it a try. It took a lot of willpower to stop doing bicep curls because I always thought my bicep was my weakest body part. To my amazement I started getting stronger and growing again - and my biceps got bigger! I wish I knew about this workout when I was younger. Two points to get the most from this workout : Firstly, record the number of reps you complete to failure and make it your mission in life to do at least one more rep at your next workout. It's incredibly motivating to know that last week you could only do 11 reps if your life depended on it but today you managed to make 12. Secondly, if you can't do at least one more rep then it just means that you're over-trained and need more rest days between workouts. Resist the temptation to train even harder when you're not getting better - you need to train LESS, not more. Best of luck from a fellow recovery midget!
Do a couple light recovery workouts every week between your heavy ones. Think of it as active stretching instead of a workout. Trust me, it will save you (possibly from serious injury) in the long run, and as long as it's super light and low intensity it won't make an inroads into your recovery.
I have been hitting the gym 2002- present and quite frustrated. I have frequented the bookstores yet never heard of this man. I have been into youtube just as much but only discovered all this material recently, i suppose i have been working at it inbetween a time after his death and a time when you got a hold of and uploaded all these tapes. It showed up on my recommended one day most likely due to an unrelenting persuit of knowledge as i follow and listen to many bodybuilders. Thanks for doing it!
@@LuisG23000 in that case more is better, and the muscles are a result of putting in lots of effort. i absolutely hate needles and putting any chemicals into my body even in pill form, so itd be highly unlikely i would ever take roids. but if i did i would want it to be small amounts on a proper cycle and regimen. and, only after having figured out the proper way to build muscle naturally. i think steroids dont make great athletes, you have to be a great athlete to begin with. and i have no desire to be current day mr olympia genetically mutated like ronnie or jay. these guys from the late 70's had very desireable physiques. especially frank zane. and he was only carrying like 20 lbs more muscle than the average male. if guys want to keep their juice use private thats okay. its only a crime in my opinion when they tell little kids "you can be just like me if you drink your milk"
This is a very well rounded combination of the best exercises . I especially like the alternation between incline press and dips between the 2 workouts as well as vertical and horizontal pull alternation . I’ll have to put this program to work .
Why separate the body parts on different days? Squats and calf raises separate? Dips and incline on separate days? It's not optimal because you want to use the muscle as much as you can
Great uploads John, really impressive t you’ve been able to keep all these over the years . FYI for viewers. The consolidation routine Mike is speaking about here is not his final thoughts on that routine. He modified it somewhat in 2000 and in his book High intensity training the Mike Mentzer way” , Chapter 15, Advanced consolidated training, the routine is shown in full. Workout 1: squats, close grip palms up pull downs, Dips. All one set to failure. Six to seven days rest no weights work at all then follow with , Workout 2: deadlifts, press behind the neck, standing calf raises. All one set to failure Six to seven days rest again. Repeat.
The consolidation program listed in the book “the mentzer way” is the consolidation routine from heavy duty 2.The improved version is the one with the 2 exercises per workout.He even said that his greatest client only did 1 set per workout
a real fucking genious with a better understanding than anyone I have ever listened too! I did swartz for a whole year;,;;;;; nah nah Mike did more for me in 3 months!!!! Mentzer he is our man!!!
There are 4 muscle quadrants in the body, posterior chain and torso for hinging and pulling and the anterior chain and torso for squatting and pushing. Modern minimalist programs are built around these movement patterns. This improved consolidated program is literally way ahead of its time. The idea is to train every muscle with the most finite amound of exercises and he's right this does it.
For this little Volume to be effective it has to be ultra slow reps , a very light warm up set and then the 8-12 super slow set , it should be pure hell and your whole body should be shaking 😊
I’ve had success with HIT without going the slow, time-under-tension route, gaining both strength and mass. Jay Vincent takes that approach, but it’s not necessary to exhaust the muscle. Certainly controlled repetitions that exclude momentum are called for. Right now I am doing TUT HIT because I’m recovering from a surgery. The slow reps allow me to use lower weights, which is less dangerous to the injury.
@@steelmongoose4956 essentially , jays approach is around ten second a complete rep so injury risk is minimal , remember injury is caused from too much volume and high velocity reps with bad form
This is absolutely true. I use a 4-2-4 cadence and it is brutal. I feel it in my entire body, not just the muscle groups being worked. However, i told myself, if im going to do this new regimen, and i have no one to train with me for forced reps, then i will do everything i can to make sure i get all that i can out of this one set. Ive been doing it for two weeks now and am down 6lbs 🙂
@@sman53 The only thing that concerns me about the lighter, slower approach is that the muscle never learn to contract under the higher weight. It’s possible that strength development might be less efficient.
John, I love the original "Mike Mentzer Wisdom" opening and music. I like you honoring those that came before you though, too! But can you bring back the other intro or just the music. It was really cool.
indeed, working out to failure is a literal and devastating attack to the human body, an assault that must be kept to a minimun in order to grow stronger
Been over a month, all numbers went up, except for training time - 15-25 min at the gym so no time to check women out :D and it makes you feel strong almost ALL the time, mood is great, appetite great, weight is growing even without supplements other than creatine... 💪
Haven't heard this much common sense in decades....this is how I started training as a young man....intuitively....then the gurus come along with isolation exercise and my growth plummeted .....back to basics...and it works
The consolidated routine seems solid but why wouldn’t we do it with 4-5 days in between each session - this way we are hitting the entire body in one week.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts. 1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth. 2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
Ive been thinking about trying this out. Ive been doing the ideal program for 3 months now. I was pretty much a complete novice when i started. Ive maxed out the leg extension machine, my squats are improving every time and im deadlifting 120kg and my chest fly's are at 22kg. My bicep curls however and pull downs aren't progressing for the past 3 weeks.
@@Ferbocarbo I ended up switching to the consolidated program and have just started to do more reps with the pull downs on my last session so it was a positive move. The legs are continuing to grow in strength each week
A question for the professionals. How long should I do the consolidation program before returning to my regular training schedule? And how long should I complete the regular training program before switching to the consolidation program?
Did workout a thursday. I am still sore.😂 Im considering waiting until this Thursday for workout b. I usually go mondays and Thursdays. Not sure if it's gonna be adequate rest. Guess ill have to see tomorrow
Mike recommended 3 exercises in “Heavy Duty II”, which was repeated in “High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way.” After his death (and thus after the book I wrote with him) certain of his seminars from 1998 surfaced in which he spoke of a modified consolidation program he had created that he believed worked better for the bulk of his clients. He also wrote about this in the booklet “Muscles in Minutes.” I included this modification in writing about the consolidated program in the book “The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer.” However, at the time we completed the manuscript that became “High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way” Mike thought the three exercise program was best for the general public. The purpose of that book, it should be pointed out, was to alert the general public to Mike’s ideas and his website where he sold personal consultations. Given that Mike believed everyone had a unique tolerance for high intensity exercise, he believed when those who read the book reached out to him for consultations, he could modify the program if needed at that point.
Just started tonight with one of mike’s programs. 6 exercises to failure and done in 20 minutes…..it kicked my ass. Came home, made dinner and 45 minutes later I wanted to sleep. Don’t think I have ever been so drained after an hour workout with set reps and sets To failure is different and feels good. Time will tell
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you for the answer. It makes sense, simplification pushing his philosophy even one stop further. What about overlap ? Won't the arm exercise of Workout A overlap on the dips of Workout B ?
Question for the community: do I start Mike Mentzer’s HIT with the Consolidation Program or the Ideal Routine Program? My goal is to follow either program very strict for 12-weeks. Thanks ahead of time for your suggestions. 💪
Don’t have a definitive answer but I believe the two programs were made for people of different body types, the consolidation program being for people with taller, skinnier body types (hardgainers) and the ideal routine for stockier people
I'm new to Mentzer's philosophy and haven't lifted in years. I want to gwt back into it with Heavy Duty. When should one use the consolidated program vs the ideal program?
Brother, I think you should do it alternately, do the consolidated program for 3 months first, trigger the growth and switch to the ideal routine, then when the ideal routine stops progressing, continue with the consolidated program.
If you’re fully recovered and stronger after six days, then stick with that. There is no one size fits all recovery interval. Everybody’s tolerance for intense exercise is different, with some requiring less time off to recover, and others requiring more. You will only know by trying.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE your effort to keep this information out there is really appreciated. I was a 5-6 day / wk weights guy. I was grinding myself up. Then i found your material. I have done both Mentzer Ideal and Comprehensive. I have never felt stronger and healthier. I literally have no injuries or pain. That’s a big deal. That was a generally accepted outcome of strength training. Keep up the great work!!
I'm thinking of switching the chinups to before the squats, the squats done in H.I.T fashion completely exhaust me. So much so that i can't go high intensity enough to justify the 1 set of chinups.
Hey John. I remember Mike saying that shrugs could be substituted for the deadlift in the split program. Would that work just as well in the consolidated program?
My first week trying this program. I’m in my early 30s and was training 5-6 days a week like I did in my 20s. My body isn’t the same. Tracking my macros. On workout days 40/40/20 macro split, off days 20/45/35 split.
What if you cant do dips? There is a dip station at the school near me. I haven't done dips since high school and im 57. Im sure i can't domore than 1-2 reps. What could I substitute? Im also 260lbs, and not the good kind of 260 for 6 feet tall. Thank you.
I recall a suggestion that the Ideal program was for those around Mike's height (5'8") and Consolidated works better for those 6' and over. Does height play a determining role in choosing either program in your view?
I’ve been experimenting with training every 72 hours, would it be better to continue my routine or swap to the consolidation routine. I’m also a tennis player and very active in manual labor. Would it be more optimal to try the consolidation program until I finish the season and then go back to the 72hour program or is there a one size fits all program?
The 3 hr lecture he does, he says if you go for 6 weeks 3 rotations of the 72hr - 4 workout routine, and if you are not satisfied, to then move to the consolidation routine...
@@Murphator thanks, I have been training with the 72hour routine splitting it into 3 workouts but I worry that because I am so active if I should swap to the once a week program temporarily until the season is over to help my recovery. Thoughts?
@@Jgravy403try it. See how you feel. I would say less is more if you are doing a lot of tennis try the once a week. This is an anabolic routine not aerobic routine. The body needs time to rest recover heal and grow. 🙏🏼
When in doubt, always add more rest between workouts for recovery, especially if you are very active outside of training. If you work out very hard and to failure, 72 hours is less preferable than 96 hours, especially if you are very active otherwise, IMO.
It may not be necessary for you to do this program at all. Mike advised that it would be helpful for those who are really hard gainers or very close to reaching the absolute limit of their genetic potential. It’s not for everybody.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE So can I continue the same exercises in the ideal routine program for years with a 6/7 day cycle? I thought he says switch to this program after a few months. What do you recommend? Im not having any problem with hard gaining i guess.
There’s no way I can answer that for you in advance. That is why Mike recommend you use a training logbook to accurately record your progress or lack thereof. As long as you are progressing; that is, going up in repetitions and/or weight, then you are stimulating growth, recovering, and allowing sufficient time for that adaptation to take place. If you are not progressing , then you are not doing one or all of the aforementioned things. This is one where you will have to do the homework for yourself I’m afraid.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Oh then the idear, is if you are progressing well with the program stick up with it but if its not going well and the progress is not satisfying ,change to the consolidation program am i right? And if all went good for months the progress and the weights should i continue the 1 workout per week cycle? And also if i saw like a small decrease on progress for a week, should i give more rest days like 2 weeks off or change the program? Btw thank you im learning alot from you:)
Yes, providing the cardio was done at a low-intensity pace, so that it could be continued for 40 minutes or so. Walking, in other words, would be a good way to burn additional calories, without being so demanding as to upset recovery ability.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thank you for uploading all this great info. If I would like to incorporate sprints instead of low intensity am I better off with the ideal or the consolidation routine? I want to take my dog for runs to give him a good exercise.
I wish I could ask Mike about his views on Muscle endurance?? I been grabbing the heaviest weights and going to failure! You have to take recovery days wether you want to or not !!!!
Im doing a similar workout with 6 days rest in between A pull down press hip belt squats leg curl B support row close grip press leg press single leg deadlift. At 48 I need that full weeks recovery or I don't improve my strength.
Mike doesnt subscribe to the, more is more, delusion so he says not to add any other workouts to the program. One thing, however, I would suggest adding to your workouts are isometric exercises where youre holding weight with your entire body; planks, walking with heavy dumbbells, holding a barbell out in front of you, holding yourself in the pull up/dip position for a period of time. I also do a weighted ab exercise at the end of every training day. One day out of the week on the rest days I work on my cardiovascular by sprinting for 15 seconds and walking for 45 seconds after; I will repeat this again for 30x = 30 min basically. I think its important to have 1 day in your week where you do cardio. Not to the point where were doing hours and becoming aerobic = tapping into muscle storage. Thanks, that's my 2 cents. I do mikes program; i like to add a couple things of my own, as i stated prior though.
We haven't seen men, like these, since the late 90s. Guys who wore the Full Mustache. My dad wore one. He's been Gone, since then. For some reason, i simply Can't NOT Grow a Full Mustache. Or maybe there's to much outward pressure to be seen wearing one. It's just verboten and the subtle glances from strangers makes it clear that I'm not to be seen with one. Until i Break Free, of Course, which IS My Deepest Wish.
Dear Sir may our good LORD bless I don't have a squat machine of any sort but on workout A can I don't he zercher squat and chin ups instead? Thank you for your time and answer.
Mr Little. Is the modified routine ment to replace the regular Consolidated routine for "linear" trainees? He didnt specify it in the video, but clearly stated the regular C routine is for low recovery guys.
Yes, Mike found the modified program to work better for that body type, however given the diversity of genetic factors, some may find the original consolidated program to work better for them. That’s why it’s important that you have a logbook and experiment with the applications to see which one/s yield the best results for you.
John thank you for sharing and keeping the MM wisdom for us today. Want to make a question: I start TRT last year, and I feel a much more energy in gym after that. Learning and practicing hit and HD, and I feel I don't need to wait 4, 5, 6, 7 days..etc between workouts. Can you recommend a training split? I'm making today chest shoulder triceps and legs one day, and back biceps and squats another day, taking 3 days off. Did Mike say something for those who use testosterone, how to train? Thanks
Hi Rafael. No, Mike never mentioned training variations with people who take TRT. However, even with the enhanced recovery that such therapy will provide, it is still very easy to overtrain. Your best bet is to keep a progress chart and make sure that your weights, repetitions, or both are going up consistently. As soon as you plateau, cut back on the volume a little bit. If you plateau again, cut back on the frequency.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts. 1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth. 2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
There is no workout that he recommended beyond that point. The only thing you can do is periodically insert some of the more demanding protocols that he advocated elsewhere on this channel. Things such as forced reps, negative only, etc. But you have to be very cautious when employing such techniques, as they are very, very demanding, and can lead to overtraining quite quickly.
An example of overtraining to emphasize your point I was at the gym, did some seated leg curls all sets to failure on the third set to failur I dropped the weight and went to failure again with lighter weight. My hamstring were wiped out for a week and so was my nervous system not worth it.
John, firstly thank you so much for doing this video series. I’ve learned everything I’ve used in bodybuilding from you, Mike, Doug McGuff etc. Question: I used the Heavy Duty 1 training system and it yielded unreal results for me as a natural. After my gains slowed I switched to the consolidation program and saw my gains regress a little. Is 7 days too long? I’ve heard that Mike expressed some doubt about this program later in life in its efficacy. You knew him so I was wondering if there was any truth to this. Thanks again John and also to the late great Mr Mentzer.
Hi Chad. Thanks for your kind words. No, I think the tale of Mike second-guessing himself on the program is apocryphal. The consolidation program was a program that worked for those who either could not recover from the Ideal Routine or had reached a strength level such that the increased punishment (in terms of weight, reps and energy output) was such that they simply could no longer recover from the volume and frequency they were performing. Mike never advocated it for everybody at all times forever and always. Your tolerance to volume and frequency is individual-specific; so you might have the genetics to tolerate and make progress on Mike's Heavy Duty 1 program. Rather than downsizing to the consolidation program, you might have wanted to take an intermediate step by slightly reducing the volume of the Heavy Duty 1 exercises and, perhaps, adding an additional rest day or two in between.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you so much for your reply! I think I’ll go to the ideal program. I’m not nearly as heavily muscled as some of the people I’m sure Mike was advocating this for so maybe the intensity from the weights I lift does not require 7 full days of rest. Again forever grateful for you, Mike and the heavy duty/high intensity community!
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts. 1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth. 2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
@@Mohitsingh13444 I recently found out that protein intake should be calculated based on body weight WITHOUT fatt ( sounded logical because together with this information I also found out that too much protein also turns into fatt ) i tried it and as a weight lifter I kept taking 2GR of protein as usual and only 200 calories lower i had very good noticeable results of fat loss ( I'm not overweighted did it for definition ) in very short time with only still doing weight lifting and no cardio at all ( And never did ) but after I founded this channel I heard in one of the videos Mike saying protein intake should be calculated based on muscle size 1 to 2 GR per pound ( I didn't tried ) just do the Mike Mentzer's heavy duty HIT workout properly ( which will burn waaay more fatt than high volume training AND cardio ) cardio is oooverrated waist of time and most important waist of energy which is very precious !
Dips work the pecs strongly, while close-grip underhand pulldowns, apart from engaging biceps and lats, also work the clavicular attachment of the pecs.
when you do the leg press do you squat for 4 sec down hold for 2 and come back up for 4 sec like the close grip pulldown? Or is their a different number to hold or pause for
Hi John which book of Mike Mentzer would you recommend buying to a modern approach which includes the consolidation training or the consolidated program? Is it the one published in 2003 “The Mike Mentzer Way? I just bought and trowed in the bin the Physique 101 by John Heart. Written in big words which includes 2 or 3 ways splits for 30 euros!!! If I onee what was the content I would have save money and do my own splits
I’m doing this workout now but I’m guilty of adding more exercises i just feel some of the gaps still need a little more stimulation however I’m sticking with 1 working set per exercise and resting the full week for now.
Update: switched from every 7th day to Heavy duty every 5th day I found that I was recovered and over compensated by the fith day. Extremely intense doing a full body but hey it’s working!
@@madnowproductions yep and I’m in a calorie deficit, trying to get a little bit leaner. The key is putting just enough rest days in between your workouts and not training until you know your recovered, you’ll gain every time!
@@sirvaantThis is very helpful. Same boat. Trying to drop weight while building muscle. Thx. BTW likely a silly question - do you know if you’re fully recovered by how not sore you are?
Thanks for spreading the knowledge! I am on the consolidation program but am a bit confused on if I should be using forced reps and other techniques to increase intensity. If positive failure is enough to stimulate growth, and by getting stronger intensity increases, then why is this needed? Is it not better to do «the least amount» to stimulate growth, so that you dont need extra rest just to compensate for the extra inroad?
You raise a good point. If you are still making progress, then don’t add such techniques. When your progress arrests, try incorporating one of those techniques and see if any progress is made. You should always keep a progress chart. Every individual is different, and responds differently to high intensity training. You will only know if a technique works for you or not by trying it, and noting the progress or lack thereof as a result.
If I can't do chin ups or don't have a lat machine, what should I do for biceps? Doing only one exercise, one set, in only one session and even apart for the next one, definitely won't do it. Should I add perhaps another biceps exercise as a substitute of those?
Is the Cosolidation program meant to be done for just a part of the year while the rest of the year you do the ideal routine? Cause in one video about the ideal routine mike said to do more restdays after a while and when you dont make more progress even with 6-7 days rest then switch to the consolidation training
It depends on how far along you are in your training, and how close you are to your genetic potential. It also depends on where you fall genetically on the scale of tolerance to exercise. If you have used the ideal routine, but it has ceased to make progress after adding additional rest days, then you may want to switch over. It really all depends on the individual and his rate of progress or lack thereof.
@@p4ranch06 Yes, unless you are a trainee who would be considered a hard gainer, which, as a beginner, you wouldn’t know yet, it is best to start with the ideal routine.
Sounds like you'd want to do a full body workout. You could probably do it, but you're gonna be running on empty. Give it a try, see if it's sustainable for you, and if the results are worth the effort. Good luck.
John do you think that if I'm not training forearms specifically (just using the Ideal Routine right now) > they will still receive sufficient impulse and will grow?
Genetics will determine your growth potential in your forearms. Mike believed that all the gripping he did on pulldowns and deadlifts, for example, gave him sufficient stimulus to build some of the biggest forearms in the business. However, if you want to specialize on forearms, it wouldn’t hurt to do a set of wrist curls and reverse curls on your arm day.
I’ve been working out for 3 years As a beginner of this program should i go for the 4 day split ( old program ) or the new ( consolidation 7 days split ) ?
@@edricjordan7093 basically u go to gym only once in 4 days. 30 min each session Day 1 chest and back Day 2 legs Day 3 arms and shoulders Day 4 legs Repeat For example if u would start on Monday next training would be on Friday
mike in specific cases, if you know how he divided the body in these cases, in three or four ... thanks for the answer ..... because personally I think that one of the most logical choices in general is to eliminate the detachment , or at least for me it's better that way
@@ManicMoe or get by a set of stairs face down and walk your feet up to the highest stairs per your comfortable level and use a set of DB to grip or perfect push up and crank ‘‘em out!💪
Is this the consolidation program that Mike Mentzer recommends for those taller than 5’10 and between 150-185 pounds? I fall within that range as a 5’11 160lb male. Considering he believes people like myself don’t respond as well to HIT. Thanks!
Yes, it was his experience as a trainer that those “with more linear physiques” (as he liked to say) have to be particularly cautious with volume and frequency in their training. He found that the consolidation program fit the bill for most people who incline toward the taller, thinner body type.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you so much! I appreciate the apt reply. I'm planning on doing more research over the next 2-3 weeks before I start. Your channel has been a pretty good source so far.
What about adding an isolation exercise to cover gaps in the physique i understand this hits everything necessary. Would it be a problem adding say 1 set of tricep pushdowns after the dip to target your long head more effectively, that seems to be a lagging bodypart when i'm doing the consolidation routine. Also i must ask is it okay to rest 10 minutes between the deadlifts and the dips? i find the dip to be very difficult to do unless it's the first exercises of that day.
You can add this in, this regimen is not meant for advanced lifters, but even advanced lifters should benefit from his recommended 6-7 days rest in between workouts. Do not ever do more than 1 set per exercise however, and do not do sets that are not to failure except for warmup sets. At most 4 exercises with 1 set or superset each per workout. Mike's method.
@@ruanoosthuizen6084 Calves aren't neglected, the squat hits them pretty hard as well as the adductors. The dip hits the triceps well but the longhead lags if it's not isolated. Im with you on the neck and abductors though...an inverted row for the hard to reach rhomboid area. The consolidation routine is solid im not arguing against it im just speaking on what happened to my physique.
Hey John, if i don't want to grow my legs and went ahead and skipped squats from the program, would my progress in other muscle groups also be affected? (There's a myth going around that training legs increases testosterone aiding in gains)
I, too, have read studies in which not training legs directly resulted in less gains in other bodyparts. However, I suspect that there is a genetic component to this (just as there is with tolerance to intense training). Consequently, the best bet is to test your hypothesis and see what happens (which all of us have to do anyway, given the above).
You should train legs too, maybe just slightly less, not by skipping leg day, but reducing lightly intensity (not total utter failure, but at the first shakes). You would still trigger some growth (less) including in other body parts, but less in those specific muscles.
@@7Faizaansyedhit your legs BUT… add in additional 7-21 days… but keep hitting them in the same way everything else is hit. Just add more weeks in between.
Only give it a shot if your recovery ability is presently unable to keep up with your workouts, or you have come very close to the end of your genetic potential. This is not a program to jump into on a whim, but the logical conclusion to a training problem, or when you’re near the end of having fufilled your potential for size and strength.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts. 1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth. 2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
@@Mohitsingh13444 1.) that’s not what Mike recommended, but feel free to take whatever amount of protein you believe you need to. 2.) if your goal is to improve your endurance, then add cardio. If your goal is to marshal all of your body’s recovery ability onto the side of strength and size increases, then don’t.
3 months later, I’m loving this shit. By the time it’s training day, my most is fully prepared. Tbh, I have even added in a 4th day between workouts a few times at this point. My strength has gone up, my vascularity has improved and all of my joints (neck, shoulders, lower back, etc) have been feeling fantastic. And these pre-exhaustion techniques make the workouts harder than any type of training I’ve ever done before. That would be taking over 20 years of training into consideration. Later
JOHN, DO YOU THINK THIS CONSOLIDATION WORKOUT IS ALL WE NEED TO ACHIEVE OUR GENETIC POTENCIAL FOR MUSCLE MASS? I'M CONSIDERING DOING THIS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE FOR THIS PURPOSE. THANK U!
Given the wide range of genetic variation to both tolerance of intense training and one’s genetic potential, that is difficult for me to say. If you train with high-intensity, and are able to increase the amount of weight that your muscles are contracting against over time, you will be, in effect, digging a deeper hole into your recovery ability with each set. This will require a longer time to recover from in between workout sessions from than it did when you were using lighter weights. Consequently, in the natural course of things, as we get closer to our genetic potential, we will require less training and briefer training, which would make the consolidation program a perfect fit. It is also a perfect fit for those who have a very poor tolerance to exercise. However, where you fit on that genetic continuum presently, I have no idea. That is why it is so important to keep a training logbook so that you can track your progress. Only then will you know if your efforts in the gym are in sync with your recovery ability
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEi think what he meant is that this is the perfect program to do whatever your genetics are. You are gonna progress and grow to your limit wether you genetics are good or bad. And I think the same, this is kind of a 100% safe routine for growth. If yiur genetics are good you are gonna hit the limit also, just slower.
He wasn’t referring to their competitive routines but only to the fact that they use primarily chin-ups and dips, and that these two movements obviously are sufficient for stimulating muscle growth in the upper body. This was primarily to quell the fear of some trainees that those two exercises might not be enough. He was referring to the exercises, not the protocol.
If you are going to train to failure with the exercises mentioned in this program, then you will need the additional days off to produce the adaptation the workouts stimulated. If you can’t stay out of the gym, that long, then, perhaps a different program would be best for you.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE really? Dam, thats a shame. What mike is saying makes total sense to me so i wanted to try it but i think id go crazy working out once a week lol.
@@gabrielmendez6128 I totally get where you are coming from. And once you’ve fallen into the habit of going to the gym a certain number of times per week, it can become a part of your life, and there is a natural anxiety that attends the thought of diminishing the frequency of your trips there. However, high-intensity training requires adequate recovery time. If you were to train intensely, and not properly recover, you would be one of those who believe they have tried Mike’s recommendations, but that it didn’t work for them. It’s best to do what you prefer for now and perhaps at some later time it will make sense to switch that out with what Mike recommended.
Doesn’t the fact that the gymnasts have very well developed muscles somewhat undermine the idea of training infrequently? I’m fairly sure they train almost daily at that level
Mike was simply pointing out that the chinning and dips the gymnasts do stimulate the muscles of the upper body sufficiently. He wasn’t referring to how they practice their routines for competition and certainly no gymnast goes to the point of muscular failure. However, the exercises that they use primarily in their practising are good ones to stimulate the muscle groups indicated.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I understand that. What I’m saying is that in principle the fact that gymnasts are able to achieve that level of muscular development by training frequently and not to the point of failure seems to indicate that high intensity training may not be the only way to achieve optimal muscle growth
@@joeys_detailing I don’t believe it is the only way to achieve muscular growth. But it certainly is an efficient way to achieve muscular growth. By focussing on the stimulus of intensity, a lot of extraneous elements are factored out. It’s also important to remember that the more you do an activity, the better the body gets at performing that activity with less muscle fiber involvement and less energy output. This is what makes improvements in what is popularly called “conditioning” when it comes to activities such as running. When someone begins an activity, all the muscle fibres come into play, way more than are actually required to perform the movement. This is why people tend to get particularly sore when they resume training after a lengthy layoff. However, the more you perform the activity, only the fibres required to perform the movement at precisely the second they’re required to be involved come into service. So the actual muscular involvement diminishes over time. That is, unless you are taking conscious steps to maximize muscle fibre involvement. Gymnastics is a perfect example of this, which is why the really seasoned gymnasts make it look effortless.
Gymnasts train hard but with high/moderate volume. I'm fan od Mike but I think he was to radical with this routine. I Luke Mike's split routines where you train 3/4 times per week
Then do what you think is best. He didn't recommend the consolidated program for everyone. If you're recovering and adapting from the split routine, then stay with that. If you're not progressing, you may need to reduce the volume and frequency of your training (assuming your intensity is sufficient).
You are missing the forest for the trees and have not grasped what Mike Mentzer stated. Gymnasts do train hard with more volume, which is due to the amount they practice their routines. Do they ever go out and practice a shotput or high jump routine? No, and why is that? Comparing the practice volume to workout training volume is an incorrect attempt to argue a statement you don't understand. If the original Heavy Duty 3 Day Split brings YOU consistent gains, then why would this program not be as effective for someone with less recovery ability?
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEthank you, John. While we have never personally met, Joanne and I would often discuss when you were re-posting Heavy Duty in Ironman. She always spoke highly of you And your user name is great word play on your favorite philosopher.
I must say I find this incredibly hard to believe anyone would get results from this! But if someone anyone could do a weekly blog on TH-cam and document it that would be great!!! I can’t find anything like that just hearsay in the comments
I put my clients on this program during a fat loss study I conducted at my fitness centre some years back. All of them gained muscle with this program, while on a calorie-deficit I might add. I've written about this in at least two of my books.
This right here, a blog would be great. I'm in the same boat as you.. I want to try this routine but I don't want to lose what progress I have made. Just so hard to wrap my head around how this routine will work! Let me know if you find anyone documenting this please
@@nicholasgargano7396 Given that genetics determine results, if I found a person who was a poor responder that used this routine and posted weekly his progress updates, what relevance would it have to you or to anyone who didn't share his genetics? The same is true with someone who responds better to using Mike's split routine; if I did a weekly blog of such a person using the consolidation program, his results (good or bad) have "zero" relevance to someone who didn't share his genetic response to exercise. The consolidation program is an option (nothing more or less) for those who find that they cannot recover from training with a higher volume or frequency. If you're making gains on your current program, you don't need to consider it. If you're not, then perhaps you should.
@@ronmexico79 Mike's methods are not a smorgasbord of training methods that you pick and choose at your fancy; they are a reasoned approach to incorporating the principles of intensity, volume and frequency. You adjust volume and frequency depending upon your (not anybody else's) progress or lack thereof. Get it out of your head that the consolidation program is advocated for everybody all the time forever and always. It's an option (nothing more) for those who are not gaining on their present program's volume and frequency. Does it work? Yes, for those people who require less volume and frequency (and there are those that do). If you're making progress on your current program, you probably don't need it.
The consolidated program is the backbone of my routine, and I’ve been getting really good results...! R.I.P. Mike Mentzer, the rightful 1980 Mr Olympia ...!
You're doing the ideal routine as the other part?
@@Mediagixno, that is a different exercise
Do you change after 12 weeks or so? What do you do differently if so?
How long have you been doing it? I just started this, doing exactly what Mike is describing to see if I get better results.
Mike was more muscular and symmetrical and overall jacked looking Arnold only had a nice chest and small waist that’s it
I’ve been doing Mikes ideal routine 1 chest back 2 legs 3 shoulders arms 4 legs and honestly can’t believe the results. Just to give an example I’d been stuck on about 135lbs for three sets of 8-10 of leg extensions for months if not years. Slogging away in the gym, up to six times a week. No increases. First HIT session I do 140lbs for 10. Max. Absolute failure. A week later sat down and rattled out 140lbs for 16(!) reps. When I got to ten reps I had to look down and make sure I had the right weight. Never seen anything like it really. A month later and I just did 190 for 10 plus a few eccentrics with drop sets etc. I wouldn’t usually comment on videos but this stuff genuinely works and I’m absolutely loving the gym again. Anyway thank you for the video. Might try the consolidated routine soon. 👍
Congratulations on your progress and thanks for your post.
Am starting to do same routine first week in.Can you tell me how you warm up?
@@Eiseman-- mike has many routines and this is one of them
@@Eiseman-- no i didnt but I am running that routine now.And my friend did it and does it for a year now on.His squat went from 60 kg to 140 kg for 12 reps.Have you tried the routine?
@@Eiseman-- I see why frequency would be a problem but if you take traning to failiure in formula it is solution.
i dont understand why people still looking for answers ,Mike is the answer
I think it’s because for the first 2-3 weeks most people feel a little flat during the rest time for recovery, but after a few weeks you start seeing reps improve and also muscle starts to get shocked and start adapting
Thanks for keeping mikes legacy alive for a new generation John
You honour me for saying so. Thanks for your post.
As long as the new generation listen...
@@Lonewolf__666 I am the new generation
@@R0369-v9v that’s good to hear then 😁 my Nephew who is 23 won’t listen to Mike. Comes out with protein synthesis only lasts 24 hours, so need to train 5/6 days a week.
@@Lonewolf__666 I’m 16. Put on an insane amount of muscle mass in a year or 2 going by hit principals
After listening to this video I still can see even to this day see how effective this program is. I have recently started using this program after being out of the gym for 6 months due to accident in which I broke both legs and ruptured both quad tendons in both knees. After having 4 surgeries at once on both legs I was bed ridden for a month before I was allowed to walk again. It was like starting over again learning to walk. Recently about 3 weeks ago I decided to start training again to rebuild my legs and build back up the strength in my knees. I finally gave up on physical therapy because of their methods and lack on strength progress in my knees. My chiropractor who was a weighlifer and football player in college suggested I use my own knowledge to build myself backup. I am now using the consolidated program with a slight twist of two sets once every 7 days. I am doing dips and leg presses and than 7 days later I am doing seated rows with leg extensions. Due to the leg injuries I am unable to do any dead lifts or squats but I might once I am fully recovered. The main point I wanted to make was the progress I have made after only two workouts for my upper body. I know anyone reading this might be thinking that it is strength that I am only regaining but the progress after only two workouts blows my mind even at my current age of 65 years old. I will regain the strength that I had and I can bet the farm I will pass where I was at. My dips went from 110 lbs for 10 reps on the first workout to 115 lbs for 17 reps and my seat rows went for 110 pounds for 7 reps to 110 pounds for 11 reps. So if you do the math that would be a 56% in strength on the rows and a 70 increase for the dips in only two workouts. I used a 4-2-4 rep protocol meaning 4 seconds on the positive. two second hold a the top of the movement and a 4 second negative on the lowering of the weight. On the last rep I would do a static hold for as long as possible and than lower the weight in a slow controlled manner taking as long as possible to lower the weight. This is making the one set as intense as possible and I think will make the gains all the greater. Once again Mike was right!
Congratulations on your progress and thank you very much for your post.
good job - now keep going
Amazing, I hope It goes well!
I wish you a speedy recovery! Thanks for such an informative post!
Ray was an absolute unit!
As a "midget of recovery" myself, I am going to jump on the consolidation program from today, after being beaten up and disheartened by many of the other 'bodybuilding' programs i have tried in the past to no avail. After listening to your channel, heavily, over the last few days; its makes enough logical sense for me to implicate these principles. Thanks for the uploads/information, you're service is much appreciated
After training for over ten years I had hit a plateau. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get any bigger, so I still went to the gym because I love lifting but I made peace with thinking I had reached my max genetic potential.
I heard about this workout through the book "The Four Hour Body" by Tim Ferris, and decided to give it a try. It took a lot of willpower to stop doing bicep curls because I always thought my bicep was my weakest body part. To my amazement I started getting stronger and growing again - and my biceps got bigger! I wish I knew about this workout when I was younger.
Two points to get the most from this workout :
Firstly, record the number of reps you complete to failure and make it your mission in life to do at least one more rep at your next workout. It's incredibly motivating to know that last week you could only do 11 reps if your life depended on it but today you managed to make 12. Secondly, if you can't do at least one more rep then it just means that you're over-trained and need more rest days between workouts. Resist the temptation to train even harder when you're not getting better - you need to train LESS, not more.
Best of luck from a fellow recovery midget!
Do you switch between this and mike's ideal routine?
How's your progress been so far?
So you are telling us that you are hitting the gym 4 times per month and you are achieving results!?
Do a couple light recovery workouts every week between your heavy ones. Think of it as active stretching instead of a workout. Trust me, it will save you (possibly from serious injury) in the long run, and as long as it's super light and low intensity it won't make an inroads into your recovery.
I have been hitting the gym 2002- present and quite frustrated. I have frequented the bookstores yet never heard of this man. I have been into youtube just as much but only discovered all this material recently, i suppose i have been working at it inbetween a time after his death and a time when you got a hold of and uploaded all these tapes. It showed up on my recommended one day most likely due to an unrelenting persuit of knowledge as i follow and listen to many bodybuilders. Thanks for doing it!
Have you incorporated heavy duty?
Mike Mentzer approach is the one that really helped me the most. I’m sure Arnold’s routine works but only if you are on gear.
@@LuisG23000 in that case more is better, and the muscles are a result of putting in lots of effort. i absolutely hate needles and putting any chemicals into my body even in pill form, so itd be highly unlikely i would ever take roids. but if i did i would want it to be small amounts on a proper cycle and regimen. and, only after having figured out the proper way to build muscle naturally. i think steroids dont make great athletes, you have to be a great athlete to begin with. and i have no desire to be current day mr olympia genetically mutated like ronnie or jay. these guys from the late 70's had very desireable physiques. especially frank zane. and he was only carrying like 20 lbs more muscle than the average male. if guys want to keep their juice use private thats okay. its only a crime in my opinion when they tell little kids "you can be just like me if you drink your milk"
I'm doing this one with 4 exercises per workout:
A
Deadlifts
Reverse Pull downs
Dips
Calve raises
B
Squats
Barbell Rows
Incline presses
Side laterals
How many reps do you do?
@@jjb2203 10-15 usually depending on the exercise. But anything from 6-20 can be good for hypertrophy
That looks great. Do you leave 7 days between?
This is a very well rounded combination of the best exercises . I especially like the alternation between incline press and dips between the 2 workouts as well as vertical and horizontal pull alternation . I’ll have to put this program to work .
Why separate the body parts on different days? Squats and calf raises separate? Dips and incline on separate days? It's not optimal because you want to use the muscle as much as you can
Great uploads John, really impressive t you’ve been able to keep all these over the years .
FYI for viewers. The consolidation routine Mike is speaking about here is not his final thoughts on that routine. He modified it somewhat in 2000 and in his book High intensity training the Mike Mentzer way” , Chapter 15, Advanced consolidated training, the routine is shown in full.
Workout 1: squats, close grip palms up pull downs, Dips. All one set to failure.
Six to seven days rest no weights work at all then follow with ,
Workout 2: deadlifts, press behind the neck, standing calf raises. All one set to failure
Six to seven days rest again.
Repeat.
The consolidation program listed in the book “the mentzer way” is the consolidation routine from heavy duty 2.The improved version is the one with the 2 exercises per workout.He even said that his greatest client only did 1 set per workout
This is the core of my training since the late-90’s
Thanks for keeping Mike’s genius alive.
a real fucking genious with a better understanding than anyone I have ever listened too! I did swartz for a whole year;,;;;;; nah nah Mike did more for me in 3 months!!!! Mentzer he is our man!!!
There are 4 muscle quadrants in the body, posterior chain and torso for hinging and pulling and the anterior chain and torso for squatting and pushing. Modern minimalist programs are built around these movement patterns. This improved consolidated program is literally way ahead of its time. The idea is to train every muscle with the most finite amound of exercises and he's right this does it.
For this little
Volume to be effective it has to be ultra slow reps , a very light warm up set and then the 8-12 super slow set , it should be pure hell and your whole body should be shaking 😊
Thanks, it reminded me of hell week at buds
I’ve had success with HIT without going the slow, time-under-tension route, gaining both strength and mass. Jay Vincent takes that approach, but it’s not necessary to exhaust the muscle. Certainly controlled repetitions that exclude momentum are called for.
Right now I am doing TUT HIT because I’m recovering from a surgery. The slow reps allow me to use lower weights, which is less dangerous to the injury.
@@steelmongoose4956 essentially , jays approach is around ten second a complete rep so injury risk is minimal , remember injury is caused from too much volume and high velocity reps with bad form
This is absolutely true. I use a 4-2-4 cadence and it is brutal. I feel it in my entire body, not just the muscle groups being worked. However, i told myself, if im going to do this new regimen, and i have no one to train with me for forced reps, then i will do everything i can to make sure i get all that i can out of this one set.
Ive been doing it for two weeks now and am down 6lbs 🙂
@@sman53 The only thing that concerns me about the lighter, slower approach is that the muscle never learn to contract under the higher weight. It’s possible that strength development might be less efficient.
I've seen video's of people doing calisthenics and have incredible physiques, so what Dr. Mike is saying is true.
I'm late 40's Holistic Chiro and have started this program. Feels good and makes sense.
John, I love the original "Mike Mentzer Wisdom" opening and music. I like you honoring those that came before you though, too! But can you bring back the other intro or just the music. It was really cool.
indeed, working out to failure is a literal and devastating attack to the human body, an assault that must be kept to a minimun in order to grow stronger
Been over a month, all numbers went up, except for training time - 15-25 min at the gym so no time to check women out :D and it makes you feel strong almost ALL the time, mood is great, appetite great, weight is growing even without supplements other than creatine... 💪
Nice work!
Haven't heard this much common sense in decades....this is how I started training as a young man....intuitively....then the gurus come along with isolation exercise and my growth plummeted .....back to basics...and it works
Isolation exercises are counterproductive?
So what happened to the 4days rest compared to the 7days? If you think you need it you rest extra days?
Two different programs, intended for different recovery abilities.
4:40 "from one perspective". I like what he did with his arm when he said that.
The consolidated routine seems solid but why wouldn’t we do it with 4-5 days in between each session - this way we are hitting the entire body in one week.
Thanks so much for the great content
You’re welcome. Thanks for your post.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts.
1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth.
2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
Minimalist. Love it. Implementing.
Ive been thinking about trying this out.
Ive been doing the ideal program for 3 months now. I was pretty much a complete novice when i started. Ive maxed out the leg extension machine, my squats are improving every time and im deadlifting 120kg and my chest fly's are at 22kg.
My bicep curls however and pull downs aren't progressing for the past 3 weeks.
Did you continue advancing curls and pulldowns? How about the rest? Did you try more recovery time for those muscles?
@@Ferbocarbo I ended up switching to the consolidated program and have just started to do more reps with the pull downs on my last session so it was a positive move. The legs are continuing to grow in strength each week
A question for the professionals.
How long should I do the consolidation program before returning to my regular training schedule?
And how long should I complete the regular training program before switching to the consolidation program?
I want to try this out! Thank you!
Did workout a thursday. I am still sore.😂 Im considering waiting until this Thursday for workout b. I usually go mondays and Thursdays. Not sure if it's gonna be adequate rest. Guess ill have to see tomorrow
John, each workout of the Consolidation Training of the last book has 3 different exercises instead of 2.
That change was made by you or by Mentzer?
Mike recommended 3 exercises in “Heavy Duty II”, which was repeated in “High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way.” After his death (and thus after the book I wrote with him) certain of his seminars from 1998 surfaced in which he spoke of a modified consolidation program he had created that he believed worked better for the bulk of his clients. He also wrote about this in the booklet “Muscles in Minutes.” I included this modification in writing about the consolidated program in the book “The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer.” However, at the time we completed the manuscript that became “High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way” Mike thought the three exercise program was best for the general public. The purpose of that book, it should be pointed out, was to alert the general public to Mike’s ideas and his website where he sold personal consultations. Given that Mike believed everyone had a unique tolerance for high intensity exercise, he believed when those who read the book reached out to him for consultations, he could modify the program if needed at that point.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Very enlightening, thank you very much
@@josuepereira9549 No worries.👍
Just started tonight with one of mike’s programs. 6 exercises to failure and done in 20 minutes…..it kicked my ass.
Came home, made dinner and 45 minutes later I wanted to sleep. Don’t think I have ever been so drained after an hour workout with set reps and sets
To failure is different and feels good. Time will tell
Which program?
So, in the end, what are the benefit of the improved program compared to the regular from HD II ?
Mike found that two exercises produced better results than three for most of his clients.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you for the answer. It makes sense, simplification pushing his philosophy even one stop further.
What about overlap ? Won't the arm exercise of Workout A overlap on the dips of Workout B ?
Question for the community: do I start Mike Mentzer’s HIT with the Consolidation Program or the Ideal Routine Program? My goal is to follow either program very strict for 12-weeks. Thanks ahead of time for your suggestions. 💪
Don’t have a definitive answer but I believe the two programs were made for people of different body types, the consolidation program being for people with taller, skinnier body types (hardgainers) and the ideal routine for stockier people
@@savinojaquez Thank you
I'm new to Mentzer's philosophy and haven't lifted in years. I want to gwt back into it with Heavy Duty. When should one use the consolidated program vs the ideal program?
Brother, I think you should do it alternately, do the consolidated program for 3 months first, trigger the growth and switch to the ideal routine, then when the ideal routine stops progressing, continue with the consolidated program.
@@letbright8182 Hey man, thanks for the reply. That makes sense. I'll switch up to ideal in a couple of months and see how it goes.
@@platypussrex thanks good training
Can complete beginners start lifting weights with this program ?
You can and it will yield results, but it will be slow. Given that you're a beginner you should do Mike Mentzers "Ideal Routine"
Is there any magic to 7 days of rest vs. 6 days? I like the routine but at 6 days I feel good.
If you’re fully recovered and stronger after six days, then stick with that. There is no one size fits all recovery interval. Everybody’s tolerance for intense exercise is different, with some requiring less time off to recover, and others requiring more. You will only know by trying.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE your effort to keep this information out there is really appreciated. I was a 5-6 day / wk weights guy. I was grinding myself up. Then i found your material. I have done both Mentzer Ideal and Comprehensive. I have never felt stronger and healthier. I literally have no injuries or pain. That’s a big deal. That was a generally accepted outcome of strength training. Keep up the great work!!
Thanks for your post!
I'm thinking of switching the chinups to before the squats, the squats done in H.I.T fashion completely exhaust me. So much so that i can't go high intensity enough to justify the 1 set of chinups.
Hey John. I remember Mike saying that shrugs could be substituted for the deadlift in the split program. Would that work just as well in the consolidated program?
Reasonably one would have to Wonder (Naturally) how effective this style of training vs the traditional would have the same effect
My first week trying this program. I’m in my early 30s and was training 5-6 days a week like I did in my 20s. My body isn’t the same. Tracking my macros. On workout days 40/40/20 macro split, off days 20/45/35 split.
Day 1 - workout A
squats 8-15 reps
Close grip pull downs (palms up) 6-10 reps
7 days later
Workout B - day 2
Deadlifts - 5-8 reps
Dips - 6-10 reps
thanks
What if you cant do dips? There is a dip station at the school near me. I haven't done dips since high school and im 57. Im sure i can't domore than 1-2 reps. What could I substitute? Im also 260lbs, and not the good kind of 260 for 6 feet tall. Thank you.
Any compound pressing exercise will be a good substitute. For example, machine bench presses, incline, presses, etc.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE OK. Thanks for the help.
Is this good for novices, or more appropriate for more advanced lifters?
Is this a beginner program?
I recall a suggestion that the Ideal program was for those around Mike's height (5'8") and Consolidated works better for those 6' and over. Does height play a determining role in choosing either program in your view?
I’ve been experimenting with training every 72 hours, would it be better to continue my routine or swap to the consolidation routine. I’m also a tennis player and very active in manual labor. Would it be more optimal to try the consolidation program until I finish the season and then go back to the 72hour program or is there a one size fits all program?
The 3 hr lecture he does, he says if you go for 6 weeks 3 rotations of the 72hr - 4 workout routine, and if you are not satisfied, to then move to the consolidation routine...
@@Murphator thanks, I have been training with the 72hour routine splitting it into 3 workouts but I worry that because I am so active if I should swap to the once a week program temporarily until the season is over to help my recovery. Thoughts?
@@Jgravy403try it. See how you feel. I would say less is more if you are doing a lot of tennis try the once a week. This is an anabolic routine not aerobic routine. The body needs time to rest recover heal and grow. 🙏🏼
@@dominict1981 Thanks I'll probably just swap till the end of the season
When in doubt, always add more rest between workouts for recovery, especially if you are very active outside of training. If you work out very hard and to failure, 72 hours is less preferable than 96 hours, especially if you are very active otherwise, IMO.
Is there anything after the consolidation routine?
The audio sounds different when the footage starts showing
Hey John, Should i do this program after doing the “ideal routine video” program? And When should i switch to this and how to continue? Thanks
It may not be necessary for you to do this program at all. Mike advised that it would be helpful for those who are really hard gainers or very close to reaching the absolute limit of their genetic potential. It’s not for everybody.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE So can I continue the same exercises in the ideal routine program for years with a 6/7 day cycle? I thought he says switch to this program after a few months. What do you recommend? Im not having any problem with hard gaining i guess.
There’s no way I can answer that for you in advance. That is why Mike recommend you use a training logbook to accurately record your progress or lack thereof. As long as you are progressing; that is, going up in repetitions and/or weight, then you are stimulating growth, recovering, and allowing sufficient time for that adaptation to take place. If you are not progressing , then you are not doing one or all of the aforementioned things. This is one where you will have to do the homework for yourself I’m afraid.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Oh then the idear, is if you are progressing well with the program stick up with it but if its not going well and the progress is not satisfying ,change to the consolidation program am i right? And if all went good for months the progress and the weights should i continue the 1 workout per week cycle? And also if i saw like a small decrease on progress for a week, should i give more rest days like 2 weeks off or change the program? Btw thank you im learning alot from you:)
Love Heavy Duty training but how about for a fat loss cycle? Would consolidation work in conjunction with 3-4 days of cardio per week?
Yes, providing the cardio was done at a low-intensity pace, so that it could be continued for 40 minutes or so. Walking, in other words, would be a good way to burn additional calories, without being so demanding as to upset recovery ability.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Hey bro quick question, if I'm following the ideal routine, does the reps need to be super slow?
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thank you for uploading all this great info. If I would like to incorporate sprints instead of low intensity am I better off with the ideal or the consolidation routine? I want to take my dog for runs to give him a good exercise.
I wish I could ask Mike about his views on Muscle endurance?? I been grabbing the heaviest weights and going to failure! You have to take recovery days wether you want to or not !!!!
John do you know if Heavy Duty II Mind and Body is available to buy somewhere?
Unfortunately, I believe it is out of print, and, thus, unavailable. Perhaps in the future that will change.
Im doing a similar workout with 6 days rest in between
A pull down press hip belt squats leg curl
B support row close grip press leg press single leg deadlift.
At 48 I need that full weeks recovery or I don't improve my strength.
Great 👍🏻
Mike doesnt subscribe to the, more is more, delusion so he says not to add any other workouts to the program. One thing, however, I would suggest adding to your workouts are isometric exercises where youre holding weight with your entire body; planks, walking with heavy dumbbells, holding a barbell out in front of you, holding yourself in the pull up/dip position for a period of time. I also do a weighted ab exercise at the end of every training day. One day out of the week on the rest days I work on my cardiovascular by sprinting for 15 seconds and walking for 45 seconds after; I will repeat this again for 30x = 30 min basically. I think its important to have 1 day in your week where you do cardio. Not to the point where were doing hours and becoming aerobic = tapping into muscle storage.
Thanks, that's my 2 cents. I do mikes program; i like to add a couple things of my own, as i stated prior though.
We haven't seen men, like these, since the late 90s.
Guys who wore the Full Mustache.
My dad wore one.
He's been Gone, since then.
For some reason, i simply Can't NOT Grow a Full Mustache.
Or maybe there's to much outward pressure to be seen wearing one.
It's just verboten and the subtle glances from strangers makes it clear that I'm not to be seen with one.
Until i Break Free, of Course, which IS My Deepest Wish.
How to choose between The ideal routine or the consolidated?
Dear Sir may our good LORD bless
I don't have a squat machine of any sort but on workout A can I don't he zercher squat and chin ups instead? Thank you for your time and answer.
Mr Little. Is the modified routine ment to replace the regular Consolidated routine for "linear" trainees? He didnt specify it in the video, but clearly stated the regular C routine is for low recovery guys.
Yes, Mike found the modified program to work better for that body type, however given the diversity of genetic factors, some may find the original consolidated program to work better for them. That’s why it’s important that you have a logbook and experiment with the applications to see which one/s yield the best results for you.
John thank you for sharing and keeping the MM wisdom for us today.
Want to make a question: I start TRT last year, and I feel a much more energy in gym after that. Learning and practicing hit and HD, and I feel I don't need to wait 4, 5, 6, 7 days..etc between workouts. Can you recommend a training split? I'm making today chest shoulder triceps and legs one day, and back biceps and squats another day, taking 3 days off. Did Mike say something for those who use testosterone, how to train? Thanks
Hi Rafael. No, Mike never mentioned training variations with people who take TRT. However, even with the enhanced recovery that such therapy will provide, it is still very easy to overtrain. Your best bet is to keep a progress chart and make sure that your weights, repetitions, or both are going up consistently. As soon as you plateau, cut back on the volume a little bit. If you plateau again, cut back on the frequency.
Any chance I could do heavy duty training while also doing bjj and mma 4-5 times a week?
JOHN, DO YOU THINK SQUATS USING SMITH MACHINE IS GOOD? OR CAN COUSE PROBLEMS IN THE LONG RUN? THANK U!
I think squats in a Smith machine are fine. So did Mike.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts.
1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth.
2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
Which workout mike mentzer recommend after 6 months of the Consolidated workout ? What is the next move to do ?
There is no workout that he recommended beyond that point. The only thing you can do is periodically insert some of the more demanding protocols that he advocated elsewhere on this channel. Things such as forced reps, negative only, etc. But you have to be very cautious when employing such techniques, as they are very, very demanding, and can lead to overtraining quite quickly.
An example of overtraining to emphasize your point I was at the gym, did some seated leg curls all sets to failure on the third set to failur I dropped the weight and went to failure again with lighter weight. My hamstring were wiped out for a week and so was my nervous system not worth it.
All hail the almighty
John, firstly thank you so much for doing this video series. I’ve learned everything I’ve used in bodybuilding from you, Mike, Doug McGuff etc.
Question: I used the Heavy Duty 1 training system and it yielded unreal results for me as a natural. After my gains slowed I switched to the consolidation program and saw my gains regress a little. Is 7 days too long? I’ve heard that Mike expressed some doubt about this program later in life in its efficacy. You knew him so I was wondering if there was any truth to this. Thanks again John and also to the late great Mr Mentzer.
Hi Chad. Thanks for your kind words. No, I think the tale of Mike second-guessing himself on the program is apocryphal. The consolidation program was a program that worked for those who either could not recover from the Ideal Routine or had reached a strength level such that the increased punishment (in terms of weight, reps and energy output) was such that they simply could no longer recover from the volume and frequency they were performing. Mike never advocated it for everybody at all times forever and always. Your tolerance to volume and frequency is individual-specific; so you might have the genetics to tolerate and make progress on Mike's Heavy Duty 1 program. Rather than downsizing to the consolidation program, you might have wanted to take an intermediate step by slightly reducing the volume of the Heavy Duty 1 exercises and, perhaps, adding an additional rest day or two in between.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you so much for your reply! I think I’ll go to the ideal program. I’m not nearly as heavily muscled as some of the people I’m sure Mike was advocating this for so maybe the intensity from the weights I lift does not require 7 full days of rest. Again forever grateful for you, Mike and the heavy duty/high intensity community!
@@chad7943 All the best, Chad. Thanks for your post.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts.
1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth.
2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
@@Mohitsingh13444 I recently found out that protein intake should be calculated based on body weight WITHOUT fatt ( sounded logical because together with this information I also found out that too much protein also turns into fatt ) i tried it and as a weight lifter I kept taking 2GR of protein as usual and only 200 calories lower i had very good noticeable results of fat loss ( I'm not overweighted did it for definition ) in very short time with only still doing weight lifting and no cardio at all ( And never did ) but after I founded this channel I heard in one of the videos Mike saying protein intake should be calculated based on muscle size 1 to 2 GR per pound ( I didn't tried ) just do the Mike Mentzer's heavy duty HIT workout properly ( which will burn waaay more fatt than high volume training AND cardio ) cardio is oooverrated waist of time and most important waist of energy which is very precious !
Mr Little you have to pay a marketing agent and get this to every place on the world
Indeed!
@unidentified as i stated him.
Today just did workout B
Can anyone please explain how this program engage the chest muscles?
Dips work the pecs strongly, while close-grip underhand pulldowns, apart from engaging biceps and lats, also work the clavicular attachment of the pecs.
How to find out the max weight for the reps?
I thought I created this workout.
Although I did chin ups instead of pull downs and squats and then a few days later dips and deadlifts.
when you do the leg press do you squat for 4 sec down hold for 2 and come back up for 4 sec like the close grip pulldown?
Or is their a different number to hold or pause for
Hi John which book of Mike Mentzer would you recommend buying to a modern approach which includes the consolidation training or the consolidated program? Is it the one published in 2003 “The Mike Mentzer Way?
I just bought and trowed in the bin the Physique 101 by John Heart. Written in big words which includes 2 or 3 ways splits for 30 euros!!! If I onee what was the content I would have save money and do my own splits
Hi Mark. The most comprehensive book would be” high intensity training the Mike Mentzer Way”, in my opinion.
In which book I can find the consolidation program? Is the one published in 2003? The Mike Mentzer Way? Thank you
Yes, that program is one of the ones included in that book.
I’m doing this workout now but I’m guilty of adding more exercises i just feel some of the gaps still need a little more stimulation however I’m sticking with 1 working set per exercise and resting the full week for now.
Yeah, prefer increase frequency and exercises, but it's easy to overdo it... Full body 3x a week is probably best but customize it.
Update: switched from every 7th day to Heavy duty every 5th day I found that I was recovered and over compensated by the fith day. Extremely intense doing a full body but hey it’s working!
@@sirvaantreps and weight going up?
@@madnowproductions yep and I’m in a calorie deficit, trying to get a little bit leaner. The key is putting just enough rest days in between your workouts and not training until you know your recovered, you’ll gain every time!
@@sirvaantThis is very helpful. Same boat. Trying to drop weight while building muscle. Thx. BTW likely a silly question - do you know if you’re fully recovered by how not sore you are?
Mike included the deadlift so we can get some hamstring involvement?
Among several other muscle groups.
Thanks for spreading the knowledge!
I am on the consolidation program but am a bit confused on if I should be using forced reps and other techniques to increase intensity. If positive failure is enough to stimulate growth, and by getting stronger intensity increases, then why is this needed? Is it not better to do «the least amount» to stimulate growth, so that you dont need extra rest just to compensate for the extra inroad?
You raise a good point. If you are still making progress, then don’t add such techniques. When your progress arrests, try incorporating one of those techniques and see if any progress is made. You should always keep a progress chart. Every individual is different, and responds differently to high intensity training. You will only know if a technique works for you or not by trying it, and noting the progress or lack thereof as a result.
I really appreciate the quick answer, thanks a lot! I will save those techniques for when they are needed.
Any results?
If I can't do chin ups or don't have a lat machine, what should I do for biceps? Doing only one exercise, one set, in only one session and even apart for the next one, definitely won't do it.
Should I add perhaps another biceps exercise as a substitute of those?
Straight barell curls
Is the Cosolidation program meant to be done for just a part of the year while the rest of the year you do the ideal routine? Cause in one video about the ideal routine mike said to do more restdays after a while and when you dont make more progress even with 6-7 days rest then switch to the consolidation training
It depends on how far along you are in your training, and how close you are to your genetic potential. It also depends on where you fall genetically on the scale of tolerance to exercise. If you have used the ideal routine, but it has ceased to make progress after adding additional rest days, then you may want to switch over. It really all depends on the individual and his rate of progress or lack thereof.
So is it advisable to start with the ideal routine first? I’m new to HIT but I really want to try the consolidation routine
@@p4ranch06 Yes, unless you are a trainee who would be considered a hard gainer, which, as a beginner, you wouldn’t know yet, it is best to start with the ideal routine.
Would there be any negative impact on gains if I do workouts A and B on the same day, while resting the rest of the week?
Sounds like you'd want to do a full body workout. You could probably do it, but you're gonna be running on empty. Give it a try, see if it's sustainable for you, and if the results are worth the effort. Good luck.
John do you think that if I'm not training forearms specifically (just using the Ideal Routine right now) > they will still receive sufficient impulse and will grow?
Genetics will determine your growth potential in your forearms. Mike believed that all the gripping he did on pulldowns and deadlifts, for example, gave him sufficient stimulus to build some of the biggest forearms in the business. However, if you want to specialize on forearms, it wouldn’t hurt to do a set of wrist curls and reverse curls on your arm day.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thanks as always!
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEany idea on Mike’s stance on straps for pulling movements?
@@davidparrot9619 He used straps for doing shrugs on the Universal machine. I've also seen shots of him using straps for negative-only pulldowns.
I’ve been working out for 3 years
As a beginner of this program should i go for the 4 day split ( old program ) or the new ( consolidation 7 days split ) ?
The 4 day split.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEI started gym 1 year ago, what should I do? consolidation or 4 day split program
What's the 4 day split routine?
@@edricjordan7093 basically u go to gym only once in 4 days. 30 min each session
Day 1 chest and back
Day 2 legs
Day 3 arms and shoulders
Day 4 legs
Repeat
For example if u would start on Monday next training would be on Friday
hi jonh i heard in your last seminar that some clients were training with only one set per workout
Yes, we do have a few people training with one working set per week.
I do it often, split into three, one set of dips, one pull-up, and one squat, 6 7 days apart
mike in specific cases, if you know how he divided the body in these cases, in three or four ... thanks for the answer ..... because personally I think that one of the most logical choices in general is to eliminate the detachment , or at least for me it's better that way
Whats a good substitute for Dips ?
Chips 😂
Incline dumbell press or close grip bench
@@ManicMoe or get by a set of stairs face down and walk your feet up to the highest stairs per your comfortable level and use a set of DB to grip or perfect push up and crank ‘‘em out!💪
@@sirvaant thanks Ill try this out
Weighted push ups.
Is this the consolidation program that Mike Mentzer recommends for those taller than 5’10 and between 150-185 pounds? I fall within that range as a 5’11 160lb male. Considering he believes people like myself don’t respond as well to HIT. Thanks!
Yes, it was his experience as a trainer that those “with more linear physiques” (as he liked to say) have to be particularly cautious with volume and frequency in their training. He found that the consolidation program fit the bill for most people who incline toward the taller, thinner body type.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you so much! I appreciate the apt reply. I'm planning on doing more research over the next 2-3 weeks before I start. Your channel has been a pretty good source so far.
@@mintoness62hey bro you still doing consolidation workout??? How are the results?😊
What about adding an isolation exercise to cover gaps in the physique i understand this hits everything necessary. Would it be a problem adding say 1 set of tricep pushdowns after the dip to target your long head more effectively, that seems to be a lagging bodypart when i'm doing the consolidation routine. Also i must ask is it okay to rest 10 minutes between the deadlifts and the dips? i find the dip to be very difficult to do unless it's the first exercises of that day.
You can add this in, this regimen is not meant for advanced lifters, but even advanced lifters should benefit from his recommended 6-7 days rest in between workouts. Do not ever do more than 1 set per exercise however, and do not do sets that are not to failure except for warmup sets. At most 4 exercises with 1 set or superset each per workout. Mike's method.
@@thegahd yeah sounds about right
I'd rather add things that target neglected muscles - neck, hip ABductors/ADductors, hip flexors, calves, etc.
@@ruanoosthuizen6084 Calves aren't neglected, the squat hits them pretty hard as well as the adductors. The dip hits the triceps well but the longhead lags if it's not isolated. Im with you on the neck and abductors though...an inverted row for the hard to reach rhomboid area. The consolidation routine is solid im not arguing against it im just speaking on what happened to my physique.
@@thegahd what about integrating mike method in my accessory exercise
Hey John, if i don't want to grow my legs and went ahead and skipped squats from the program, would my progress in other muscle groups also be affected? (There's a myth going around that training legs increases testosterone aiding in gains)
I, too, have read studies in which not training legs directly resulted in less gains in other bodyparts. However, I suspect that there is a genetic component to this (just as there is with tolerance to intense training). Consequently, the best bet is to test your hypothesis and see what happens (which all of us have to do anyway, given the above).
@@Rileyed ok thanks a lot
You should train legs too, maybe just slightly less, not by skipping leg day, but reducing lightly intensity (not total utter failure, but at the first shakes). You would still trigger some growth (less) including in other body parts, but less in those specific muscles.
@@7Faizaansyedhit your legs BUT… add in additional 7-21 days… but keep hitting them in the same way everything else is hit.
Just add more weeks in between.
Damn….
I’m about to give it a shot.
I really enjoy his approach.
Only give it a shot if your recovery ability is presently unable to keep up with your workouts, or you have come very close to the end of your genetic potential. This is not a program to jump into on a whim, but the logical conclusion to a training problem, or when you’re near the end of having fufilled your potential for size and strength.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE SIR John little. Please give me your precious time to clear some of my doubts.
1.SIR what about recent studies that SUGGEST 2g protein per pound of body weight for optimal muscle growth.
2.SIR what about doing little cardio such as swimming and rope jumping on rest days BETWEEN HIT programme to burn down some calories that are high above the needed one.
@@Mohitsingh13444 1.) that’s not what Mike recommended, but feel free to take whatever amount of protein you believe you need to. 2.) if your goal is to improve your endurance, then add cardio. If your goal is to marshal all of your body’s recovery ability onto the side of strength and size increases, then don’t.
Really? Only 2 workouts with two exercises a week apart? Surely I am missing something here. Can someone help me?
3 months later, I’m loving this shit. By the time it’s training day, my most is fully prepared. Tbh, I have even added in a 4th day between workouts a few times at this point.
My strength has gone up, my vascularity has improved and all of my joints (neck, shoulders, lower back, etc) have been feeling fantastic.
And these pre-exhaustion techniques make the workouts harder than any type of training I’ve ever done before. That would be taking over 20 years of training into consideration.
Later
JOHN, DO YOU THINK THIS CONSOLIDATION WORKOUT IS ALL WE NEED TO ACHIEVE OUR GENETIC POTENCIAL FOR MUSCLE MASS? I'M CONSIDERING DOING THIS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE FOR THIS PURPOSE. THANK U!
Given the wide range of genetic variation to both tolerance of intense training and one’s genetic potential, that is difficult for me to say. If you train with high-intensity, and are able to increase the amount of weight that your muscles are contracting against over time, you will be, in effect, digging a deeper hole into your recovery ability with each set. This will require a longer time to recover from in between workout sessions from than it did when you were using lighter weights. Consequently, in the natural course of things, as we get closer to our genetic potential, we will require less training and briefer training, which would make the consolidation program a perfect fit. It is also a perfect fit for those who have a very poor tolerance to exercise. However, where you fit on that genetic continuum presently, I have no idea. That is why it is so important to keep a training logbook so that you can track your progress. Only then will you know if your efforts in the gym are in sync with your recovery ability
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEo
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEi think what he meant is that this is the perfect program to do whatever your genetics are. You are gonna progress and grow to your limit wether you genetics are good or bad. And I think the same, this is kind of a 100% safe routine for growth. If yiur genetics are good you are gonna hit the limit also, just slower.
Abit confused by his example citing gymnasts. I'm sure they don't work the parallel bars once a week for their impressive upper body.
He wasn’t referring to their competitive routines but only to the fact that they use primarily chin-ups and dips, and that these two movements obviously are sufficient for stimulating muscle growth in the upper body. This was primarily to quell the fear of some trainees that those two exercises might not be enough. He was referring to the exercises, not the protocol.
They have elite genetics for gymnastics, they probably could have gotten to that size, likely bigger training the way Mike suggested
Agree with everything, but why the rest is so short between two excesises?
Im sorry, but i cant workout once a week. I like lifting too much. Ill try this program but workout 3 times a week
If you are going to train to failure with the exercises mentioned in this program, then you will need the additional days off to produce the adaptation the workouts stimulated. If you can’t stay out of the gym, that long, then, perhaps a different program would be best for you.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE really? Dam, thats a shame. What mike is saying makes total sense to me so i wanted to try it but i think id go crazy working out once a week lol.
@@gabrielmendez6128 I totally get where you are coming from. And once you’ve fallen into the habit of going to the gym a certain number of times per week, it can become a part of your life, and there is a natural anxiety that attends the thought of diminishing the frequency of your trips there. However, high-intensity training requires adequate recovery time. If you were to train intensely, and not properly recover, you would be one of those who believe they have tried Mike’s recommendations, but that it didn’t work for them. It’s best to do what you prefer for now and perhaps at some later time it will make sense to switch that out with what Mike recommended.
We’ll said!
First
Chinups are Better, at the lat machine the Wright brings me up and i cant stat with my buttocks steadely fixed
Doesn’t the fact that the gymnasts have very well developed muscles somewhat undermine the idea of training infrequently? I’m fairly sure they train almost daily at that level
Mike was simply pointing out that the chinning and dips the gymnasts do stimulate the muscles of the upper body sufficiently. He wasn’t referring to how they practice their routines for competition and certainly no gymnast goes to the point of muscular failure. However, the exercises that they use primarily in their practising are good ones to stimulate the muscle groups indicated.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I understand that. What I’m saying is that in principle the fact that gymnasts are able to achieve that level of muscular development by training frequently and not to the point of failure seems to indicate that high intensity training may not be the only way to achieve optimal muscle growth
@@joeys_detailing I don’t believe it is the only way to achieve muscular growth. But it certainly is an efficient way to achieve muscular growth. By focussing on the stimulus of intensity, a lot of extraneous elements are factored out. It’s also important to remember that the more you do an activity, the better the body gets at performing that activity with less muscle fiber involvement and less energy output. This is what makes improvements in what is popularly called “conditioning” when it comes to activities such as running. When someone begins an activity, all the muscle fibres come into play, way more than are actually required to perform the movement. This is why people tend to get particularly sore when they resume training after a lengthy layoff. However, the more you perform the activity, only the fibres required to perform the movement at precisely the second they’re required to be involved come into service. So the actual muscular involvement diminishes over time. That is, unless you are taking conscious steps to maximize muscle fibre involvement. Gymnastics is a perfect example of this, which is why the really seasoned gymnasts make it look effortless.
They juicing too
🤔👍✌️
Gymnasts train hard but with high/moderate volume. I'm fan od Mike but I think he was to radical with this routine. I Luke Mike's split routines where you train 3/4 times per week
Then do what you think is best. He didn't recommend the consolidated program for everyone. If you're recovering and adapting from the split routine, then stay with that. If you're not progressing, you may need to reduce the volume and frequency of your training (assuming your intensity is sufficient).
You are missing the forest for the trees and have not grasped what Mike Mentzer stated. Gymnasts do train hard with more volume, which is due to the amount they practice their routines. Do they ever go out and practice a shotput or high jump routine? No, and why is that? Comparing the practice volume to workout training volume is an incorrect attempt to argue a statement you don't understand. If the original Heavy Duty 3 Day Split brings YOU consistent gains, then why would this program not be as effective for someone with less recovery ability?
@@happymadison71 Well put.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEthank you, John. While we have never personally met, Joanne and I would often discuss when you were re-posting Heavy Duty in Ironman. She always spoke highly of you
And your user name is great word play on your favorite philosopher.
Gymnasts actually train with moderate intensity so they can do more Volume aka practicing skills.
Third
I must say I find this incredibly hard to believe anyone would get results from this!
But if someone anyone could do a weekly blog on TH-cam and document it that would be great!!!
I can’t find anything like that just hearsay in the comments
I put my clients on this program during a fat loss study I conducted at my fitness centre some years back. All of them gained muscle with this program, while on a calorie-deficit I might add. I've written about this in at least two of my books.
This right here, a blog would be great. I'm in the same boat as you.. I want to try this routine but I don't want to lose what progress I have made. Just so hard to wrap my head around how this routine will work! Let me know if you find anyone documenting this please
@@ronmexico79 absolutely, I'm surprised John hasn't managed to find someone to document this rather than hearsay.
@@nicholasgargano7396 Given that genetics determine results, if I found a person who was a poor responder that used this routine and posted weekly his progress updates, what relevance would it have to you or to anyone who didn't share his genetics? The same is true with someone who responds better to using Mike's split routine; if I did a weekly blog of such a person using the consolidation program, his results (good or bad) have "zero" relevance to someone who didn't share his genetic response to exercise. The consolidation program is an option (nothing more or less) for those who find that they cannot recover from training with a higher volume or frequency. If you're making gains on your current program, you don't need to consider it. If you're not, then perhaps you should.
@@ronmexico79 Mike's methods are not a smorgasbord of training methods that you pick and choose at your fancy; they are a reasoned approach to incorporating the principles of intensity, volume and frequency. You adjust volume and frequency depending upon your (not anybody else's) progress or lack thereof. Get it out of your head that the consolidation program is advocated for everybody all the time forever and always. It's an option (nothing more) for those who are not gaining on their present program's volume and frequency. Does it work? Yes, for those people who require less volume and frequency (and there are those that do). If you're making progress on your current program, you probably don't need it.
This sounds like AI! Fake?!
Does Mike mentzer had family ???
He had a brother (Ray), two step siblings and a niece.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE is he had a son / daughter ?
@@CAPTAINTHUNDEREDITS11 No.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE he never married ?
@@CAPTAINTHUNDEREDITS11 Nope. Was engaged to a girl for a while but they grew apart.