Jon Gundry is a national treasure! I could listen to him talk about pickups all day. There are many, many great in-depth videos on the ThroBak TH-cam channel.
One thing that didn’t come out in this interview is that “output” or how hot a signal (how loud) is sent out from the pickup is primarily based on the strength of the magnet, not the resistance reading of the pickup. This is something I have discussed with Jon Gundry as well as other PAF clone winders. The magnet is the biggest factor while the resistance reading should be considered as a differentiating factor among two pickups that have similar magnets. Both the type of alnico and the gauss (level of charge) of the magnet affect the strength of the magnet. Jon offers both fully charged magnets and what he calls “block charged” magnets that are less than fully charged simulating magnets that were in the middle of a block of magnets that were all charged together and thereby getting less charge than others in the block. A fully charged A5 magnet and a block charged A4 magnet both put into the same pickup will produce dramatic differences such that it won’t even sound like the same pickup when swapping the two magnets for one another. I’m not saying resistance has no impact. It does. But only marginally compared to the magnet. Keep that in mind when you are deciding on which pickups to buy from Jon (or any other winder) - select the magnets first and then decide the resistance you want, in that order. Good luck. Jon is a wealth of knowledge and makes excellent products.
The oversimplification of DCR=output is so widespread at this point that even the pickup manufacturers have embraced it, because it gives them an easy way to market and quantify their products.
Jon is a great guy, excellent products. I started with a few of his pedals, that were excellent and have kz115's in my LP. He always has been a gentleman with me and taken his time to talk over my BS lol
My favorite Les Paul is the one Mick Taylor played on "Get Yer Ya Ya's Out". I bought a pre-historic les paul that had Bill Lawrence printed circuit board pickups and replaced them with the Throbak MT-102B pickups which were cloned after Mick's LP. (see the product description on the Throbak website). They weren't cheap, but good god, the sound is unreal. The neck pickup is a bit hotter than the bridge and it sounds incredible. Won't ever buy any other PAF's than Throbak. And now Jon is making Tele pickups. I see a set of those in my future.
One thing I picked up from this was when he said that coils that are not wax potted will have some acoustical content to them due to whatever microphonics are present. This would mean that once again, the wood comes into play in the over all tone of the instrument because If the pickup is capable of amplifying the voice, then it would also amplify some of the resonance of the body. Exactly how much is anybody's guess, and of course no two guitars or pickups will respond the same. The real question is how much does any of this matter? You could hand the bottom of the line starter pack Epi les paul to Jimmy Page or Slash or Billy G, and they'd take a minute to adjust their attack and technique, and they'd all sound exactly like themselves. The real true art to all this lies in one's ability to do that, no matter what particular instrument you have in your hand at any given time. If you have plenty of confidence in your own skills, you'll sound just fine no matter what you're playing.
I played Epi Les Paul's for years and was happy with the "normal" humbucker" sound/tone. Then I got a Vintage® V100MRPGM with Trevor Wilkinson's version of the "PAF" (which Seth Lover helped him with) and they sound amazing. I have never been able to come close to the range of tones possible with the PAF style pick ups compared to the "normal" humbucker.
wilkinsons are great, love m in my Vintages (check the JBM lp!), even in the old early H Bentons if you can find them (dirt cheap, check Custom White lp, early 6/12 doubleneck, the early AFD lps...) - esp with vol/tone rolled off a bit (here on a 15 inch Fender Twin reverb)
Many players today aren't trying to overdrive a 100-watt amp (due to the threats of deafness and divorce), yet still gravitate toward pickups with a ton of push. They then wonder why their distorted tone, especially from clipping, sounds so fizzy and harsh. At some point the lightbulb will come on and these players will realize that the 7.5K of the later PAFs and Patent No's is actually a very sweet spot for modern amplification and effects.
Awesome stuff! Jon’s attention to detail is unparalleled. His PG-102 set are the best Peter Green style set I’ve owned, out of countless “signature” sets from other winders.
I was lucky enough to snatch two pedals made by Throbak. "stRange Master" which is a treble booster and "sTone Bender" Fuzz. Both are absolutely stellar pedals 👍
It’s amazing that people wet themselves over the original Seth lover pickups, yet the players back then were a little dissatisfied with them and it gave rise to Seymour Duncan being able to create a business replacing them, and now Seymour Duncan specializes in replacing pickups that he originally replaced. Guitar geeks are a crazy crazy breed that live off of hype. Just plug in and play. If you are over thinking your tone, you aren’t jamming with a band.
Billy Gibbons, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Peter Frampton, Peter Green, Gary Moore, Paul Kossof, Mick Ralphs, Tommy Bolin, Angus Young, Larry Carlton, Steve Lukather, Albert King, BB King, Freddie King just to name a few, loved the original P.A.F's. Only in the 80's when higher gain was more popular people started to switch to higher output pickups like Seymour Duncan's. But even Eddie van Halen put an old style P.A.F. in his Frankenstrat. I understand were you're coming from but to say that "the players back then" didn't like the Seth Lovers is not true. Having said that.. This video is just a 40 minute add for Throbak. Mr Shull either get paid for this or gets a bunch of free stuff. Never trust an influencer. He jumped on the "Gibson Bashing Bandwagon" when Gibson gave him a free guitar and he put out a video saying that Gibson was great.. Go figure..
@@simonvanderheijden432 that would be a good point of Seymour Duncan hadn’t been so successful in making pickup replacements privately for years then decided to start his own company in 1976. His success was well before the 80’s. And most of the players you listed were known for modding and changing parts out on their guitars.
@@user-tz2zz5ij1s Most players i listed are know for playing stock guitars. (Not counting the changed tuners on some guitars) Albert King's V was stock, Pearly Gates is stock, Paul Kossofs guitars were stock, Greeny is (arguably) stock, Lukather's '59 is stock, the Beano burst was stock, Mick Ralphs '58 is stock, Tommy Bolin's '60's burst has stock pickups. Freddie didn't mod his guitars, neither did BB.. I believe Larry Carltons '59 ES335 has the original paf's in em.
Gotta try some ThroBaks...btw Rhett I think the band would do a nice cover of the 70s Atlanta made song, ain't waisting time no more by the Allman Brothers
I played 5 less paul's from the same year on the same Marshall amp at the store, two sounded similar, and one had no mid tone no matter what I did to the amp. You have to match a pickup to the guitar.
I just look for more harmonic content at brake up, that takes the right pickup in the right guitar. I have played a few PRS that stood out like that, and just played a new less paul with a 61 listed pick up that had it. All the early guitarist he list have that extra harmonic contend even at vastly different gain. It is a special condition.
What this guy is explaining is really teasing me, all of what he is describing, Im fighting with and seems it can be solved with proper pickups. Damn, but do the TroBaks costs a lot :-O. PS: Gibson 498 pickups is Alnico 5 and medium, maybe borderline high output on the lower side of high output pickups. Maybe you was thinking 496/500? Those are ceramic super high output.
Sounds like one needs to travel with the guitar to the fitting room and try on pickups... colemusic.co/collections/pickups is another custom pickup shop, and their blogs trace the history of pickups. Thanks, Rhett!
It all starts with a great guitar folks, a fantastic pickup will not save a tone-turd. Throbak and Tom Holmes make good stuff. I've bought pickups from both and the service from both companies was great. Tom is retiring soon so put in your order soon. They're expensive but worth it imo. Go to Throbak's TH-cam channel and he explains all this stuff with good video.
I Has ThroBak been able to do an analysis of Duane Allman's pickups? I heard that he had a favorite set of '57 PAF's that he took out of a gold top of that year and traded it for a '59 sunburst which he put 57 PAF's in. That's supposedly his Live at the Fillmore guitar. He used an early SG Les Paul with PAF's for slide at that show. The goldtop was used on the Layla album with Clapton. Duane's playing and his tone are my favorite and I've been chasing it for decades. Is there a ThroBak Duane pickup? Also does ThroBak make the original volume and tone pots and wiring harness with real bumblebee caps? I wonder if the pickup selector switch also affects the tone.
I have vintage fender pickups that sound so good i wouldnt take 10000 for them, but ive wound atleast a hundred singlecoils to try and recreate them and i can never get them to sound like the vintage one, ive used same magnets and everything but never turns out the same or even close. I think the wire today is alot different. Then it was back then, and the magnets 2.
At this point the best PAF's I have ever owned besides the originals, is WIZZ. I'm sure there are some better ones but for the price and consistency they are hard to beat. I know the late and Great ED King loved'em.
The only "proof" a T top ever resided in Page's les paul is one photo from the late 80s. He is holding the guitar with the double black exposed bobbins and somebody said the T is visible. I have never found this photo. No proof when this was installed or if it was a custom wind using parts drawer parts. For all we know the pickup was replaced more than once in zeppelin because back then a all gibson humbuckers were considered the same. I will only be satisfied when someone comes forward and says something like"My name is so and so and in 1972 I put a pickup in Jimmy's guitar that came out of a 1967 SG" or thereabouts. It is all speculation from a LATE 80s photo that has taken on a life of its own.
A vintage wind humbucker can only compete with the attitude of a p90 if a pedal is involved. A naturally compressing p90 sounds pissed off. I do love humbuckers too.
What did Rickenbacker use for their lap held steel guitars back in circa -1936 1937 ? The reason I’m asking is because my grandfather left me a circa 1936/37 lap held steel guitar , called the Frying Pan which has the first w/ the volume and one tone control on it and I still have that guitar in its original case from 36/37. Just wondering what the pickups are and how they made them as you’re saying about the P 90s and the P.A.F.’s … Any help here would be absolutely grateful. Thank you very much if you find out and get back to me, please.
What about early matsu Maxon PAF style pups (opinion) + also the Maxon minibucker (fi in 79/80 Greco lps)? Personally, I love m here on my guitars (idem Wilkinsons, see comment below) Thx!
Thank you SOOO much Rhett and Jon !! Wow , super informative.... though i would ask about other guitar heros like Larry Carlton, Robben Ford, Carlos Santana... Jon, what would you say to someone looking for those tones, or in other words, if you were tasked with replacing pickups for Larrys and/or Robbens 335's or Carlos' early tones,... what would you do? Thank you sooo much again !! Blessings to all y'all.... Mark :-)
He got it wrong. What makes a great PAF is the spacer wood. Kossoff's neck PAF had a spacer made of 384yo maple from easter slope of Kawchuga Mountain pissed off by 6yo female wolf on july 5th 1949.
Which is why my 1971 Superchet had the most amazing tone you've ever heard. Those particular filtertrons were very microphonic, and picked up the resonance of that big acoustic chamber. It was like butter.
they use poly wire and a short strong A5 magnet and fewer wounds （balanced too） so they sounded different😄some love them （jimmy page apparently loves his ttop replacement in his No.1‘s bridge pickup from 1972-1988 lol）some hate them 😂
This channel is great. My take away from this is that John has gone too far down the rabbit hole and needs some help..clearly he has a wealth of knowledge but seems to be trying to replicate a unicorn sound. He seems to contradict himself on many occasions. He was chasing the definitive vintage paf building process by .buying the original machines..getting magnets made and then, rightly, explains there is a huge random variation that he can actually replicate ( so therefore there is no one vintage PAF tone) then explains that they are also microphonic so therefore there is a huge influence imparted by the wood and construction of the instrument which he definitely cant replicate. He then explains that he wanted to replicate the machine wound nature by buying the original machines which didnt have an auto stop so the over and underwound nature of individual pick ups would be down to the machine operator..so is he going to hire the operators as well . 😉 I joke but the take away has to be... if you are looking for a vintage PAF tone it is going to be the combination of PU and Guitar... so buying from John, or any other maker, is not necessarily going to get yoù the vintage PAF tone your looking for... your just going to have to go and try guitars until you find the sound you want or buy vintage and hope you dont get a pup of a guitar... rememver vintage doesnt equal good. I have an 85 strat (so not vintage) I have had so many offers from real players for it... its just that good. I was just lucky when I bought it new back then. Good luck with the rabbit hole if you are after that specific PAF tone...(whatever the hell that is!) Still facinating stuff though.
The whole PAF thing has gotten stupid. PAF pickups varied so much that the only thing you can "clone" is the looks of all the little details, most of which don't even affect tone. That's ok as long as people know that and thats what your after. Guitarists are worse than audiophiles when it comes to denying the placebo effect, hearing things that are far beyond the point of even measuring. I'm not saying PU's don't sound different but changing the bobbin screws from brass to steel you will never ever hear. A non potted PU being more "airy", jeez, it's your brain equating air between the winding being "airy" sounding, like you can hear the air. Even Jon's test between potted and non yielded the same tone. PRS's 57/08's are reguarded by some as one of the best sounding PU's. I've pulled the covers on PRS PU's, lots of wax. They appear to be potted with covers on. There is nothing, no reason a 70 dollar G&B pickup can't sound as much like SOME PAF as a 300 dollar boutique PU. So just trying to inject a little reason in.
So, the original PAFs were machine-made, by people who weren't guitar players. They were made with the idea of efficiency in mind so as to maximize profit. The operator of the winding machines was free to stop winding within a certain range. There were the usual external distractions/pressures on workers - what to eat for lunch, homelife, when's payday, worry about family and the world, etc. These people were just doing a day job. Is it possible that the hallowed, original PAFs were just average, mass-produced products from the 1950's and 1960s? That there's nothing special about them and the players who happened to have them in their guitars were just great guitarists and the music they made came from their hands, hearts and minds rather than the pickups?
Overtones are NOT musical. Harmony, melody, rhythm, pacing, phrasing, using dynamics, time feel, IS musical. Overtones, pickups, gear is NOT musical. It's a TOOL. It's like saying the recoil of that hockey stick is athletic. NO, the hockey stick and its properties are NOT athletic. A tweed deluxe is NOT musical. These are TOOLS, not artists or athletes!
"acoustic transmission mechanically through the pickups" and other scientific sounding assertions are easily testable. Without that they are just opinion. Tapping on the pickup cover does not correlate with the assertion that the acoustic properties of the body wood influences the tone, as implied. The physics are different. Such suggestions indicate a lack of understanding, or other motives. Pickups can be scientifically measured to confirm how their physics relates to their heard, sonic performance. The fact that manufacturers fail to present that information raises questions regarding their credibility and motives. The notion of some people being "vintage pickup whisperers" may seem to be a better marketing approach for a willing, gullible audience.
l love this stuff. a couple of underestimated PAF lovers and manufacturers that have an impassioned love driving their work are Trev Wilkinson of Wilkinson pickups and the crew at Stew-Mac with their Parsons Street waxed and non-waxed PAF pickups. (Parsons Street was the Gibson factory address in Kalamazoo, MI.
I heard Dickey say in an interview,I believe for Gibson, that his neck p/u went dead. This was before music stores carried boutique pick ups. Pre Lollar,preFralin,pre ThroBak,and on,and on. He took it to the local music store in a small town and just traded his broken PAF out of his 57 Gold top for what ever the store had. He did not remember what it was. He did not care. He just wanted his guitar back. He said the replacement sounded as good or better then the PAF ever did. I believe he kept that replacement in to this day. Do you guys know another story about Dickies Gold Top?
Rhett- great interview! I recently bought some PAFs from Tom Doyle of Doyle’s Coils. His claim to fame is guitar tech-omg for Les Paul for 45+ years. Like your interviewee they try to reproduce those iconic pickups as best they can. I love mine, which are neatly installed in a ‘59 spec LP a luthier friend of mine built. Hope you enjoy yours!
These contributions are absolutely fantastic! Getting an insight into all these details is amazing and makes us understand it all much better. It's just totally perspective-widening and enriching! Absolutely love this stuff. Please keep these type of background/evolution of gtr component contributions going, if possible. Thank you!
I remember many years ago reading an article in Guitarist magazine (UK) an interview with Hartley Peavy where he tried to debunk a lot of the mysteries of pickup winding saying that some people would have you believe that to get that special tone they need to be wound on a full moon and dipped in swamp water. In reality to the listener, with all the modern amp modeling and effects what makes more difference is what is at the other end of the guitar lead.
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This second channel is criminally underrated!
Arrest your master then
👍 X 1,000,000,000,000,000.0009
Jon Gundry is a national treasure! I could listen to him talk about pickups all day. There are many, many great in-depth videos on the ThroBak TH-cam channel.
One thing that didn’t come out in this interview is that “output” or how hot a signal (how loud) is sent out from the pickup is primarily based on the strength of the magnet, not the resistance reading of the pickup. This is something I have discussed with Jon Gundry as well as other PAF clone winders. The magnet is the biggest factor while the resistance reading should be considered as a differentiating factor among two pickups that have similar magnets. Both the type of alnico and the gauss (level of charge) of the magnet affect the strength of the magnet. Jon offers both fully charged magnets and what he calls “block charged” magnets that are less than fully charged simulating magnets that were in the middle of a block of magnets that were all charged together and thereby getting less charge than others in the block. A fully charged A5 magnet and a block charged A4 magnet both put into the same pickup will produce dramatic differences such that it won’t even sound like the same pickup when swapping the two magnets for one another.
I’m not saying resistance has no impact. It does. But only marginally compared to the magnet. Keep that in mind when you are deciding on which pickups to buy from Jon (or any other winder) - select the magnets first and then decide the resistance you want, in that order. Good luck. Jon is a wealth of knowledge and makes excellent products.
I’ve been able to adjust the “output” of a few pickups by swapping to Jon’s A5s. Usually gives me just enough extra juice to push the amps how I want.
The oversimplification of DCR=output is so widespread at this point that even the pickup manufacturers have embraced it, because it gives them an easy way to market and quantify their products.
Adam White yes, it’s unfortunate but true.
Jon is a great guy, excellent products. I started with a few of his pedals, that were excellent and have kz115's in my LP. He always has been a gentleman with me and taken his time to talk over my BS lol
My favorite Les Paul is the one Mick Taylor played on "Get Yer Ya Ya's Out". I bought a pre-historic les paul that had Bill Lawrence printed circuit board pickups and replaced them with the Throbak MT-102B pickups which were cloned after Mick's LP. (see the product description on the Throbak website). They weren't cheap, but good god, the sound is unreal. The neck pickup is a bit hotter than the bridge and it sounds incredible. Won't ever buy any other PAF's than Throbak. And now Jon is making Tele pickups. I see a set of those in my future.
To me, Mick’s tone and lead playing on Sympathy is the pinnacle of rock’n’roll guitar.
One thing I picked up from this was when he said that coils that are not wax potted will have some acoustical content to them due to whatever microphonics are present. This would mean that once again, the wood comes into play in the over all tone of the instrument because If the pickup is capable of amplifying the voice, then it would also amplify some of the resonance of the body. Exactly how much is anybody's guess, and of course no two guitars or pickups will respond the same. The real question is how much does any of this matter? You could hand the bottom of the line starter pack Epi les paul to Jimmy Page or Slash or Billy G, and they'd take a minute to adjust their attack and technique, and they'd all sound exactly like themselves. The real true art to all this lies in one's ability to do that, no matter what particular instrument you have in your hand at any given time. If you have plenty of confidence in your own skills, you'll sound just fine no matter what you're playing.
I played Epi Les Paul's for years and was happy with the "normal" humbucker" sound/tone. Then I got a Vintage® V100MRPGM with Trevor Wilkinson's version of the "PAF" (which Seth Lover helped him with) and they sound amazing. I have never been able to come close to the range of tones possible with the PAF style pick ups compared to the "normal" humbucker.
wilkinsons are great, love m in my Vintages (check the JBM lp!), even in the old early H Bentons if you can find them (dirt cheap, check Custom White lp, early 6/12 doubleneck, the early AFD lps...) - esp with vol/tone rolled off a bit
(here on a 15 inch Fender Twin reverb)
I love a good pickup rabbit hole... as long as it’s someone else’s chase.
A great interview with Throbak.l loved hearing the details on different era's of production and parts. Well done!
Many players today aren't trying to overdrive a 100-watt amp (due to the threats of deafness and divorce), yet still gravitate toward pickups with a ton of push. They then wonder why their distorted tone, especially from clipping, sounds so fizzy and harsh. At some point the lightbulb will come on and these players will realize that the 7.5K of the later PAFs and Patent No's is actually a very sweet spot for modern amplification and effects.
There it is. Non-potted, 7.5 or close, and for me, an UOA5 mag.
Superb interview
This is THE finest example of PAF nerdery that I have ever seen. Awesome info!
Thus was an exceptionally informative video. Loved the longer format. Well done.
This is THE video about PAFs! Thank you so much!!
Amazing video Rhett! Give our thanks to Jon! :)
Awesome stuff! Jon’s attention to detail is unparalleled. His PG-102 set are the best Peter Green style set I’ve owned, out of countless “signature” sets from other winders.
Makes me think that PRS got it right when they acquired the old machines.
Seymore Duncan also snagged a few of the original winding machines. They're used for their 59 models
Yes, great idea! For more depth on the topic, click through to channel B. I will gladly watch both. Great job. ...and post more of you playing too!
RIP to Eddie Van Halen, one of the greatest influential rock guitar players.
I was lucky enough to snatch two pedals made by Throbak. "stRange Master" which is a treble booster and "sTone Bender" Fuzz. Both are absolutely stellar pedals 👍
He has a compliment of 1/4 round tube traps in the corner. There is a chance I built them at Acoustic Sciences Corp in Eugene, OR.
Great information Rhett. Loved geeking out with this.
Rhett thanks for doing this. Also can't wait for the next show in your basement.
Thanks Rhett ⚓️. This is fun, I just built a pickguard setup for my Squier Affinity Strat, so much fun😎
It’s amazing that people wet themselves over the original Seth lover pickups, yet the players back then were a little dissatisfied with them and it gave rise to Seymour Duncan being able to create a business replacing them, and now Seymour Duncan specializes in replacing pickups that he originally replaced. Guitar geeks are a crazy crazy breed that live off of hype. Just plug in and play. If you are over thinking your tone, you aren’t jamming with a band.
Billy Gibbons, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Peter Frampton, Peter Green, Gary Moore, Paul Kossof, Mick Ralphs, Tommy Bolin, Angus Young, Larry Carlton, Steve Lukather, Albert King, BB King, Freddie King just to name a few, loved the original P.A.F's. Only in the 80's when higher gain was more popular people started to switch to higher output pickups like Seymour Duncan's. But even Eddie van Halen put an old style P.A.F. in his Frankenstrat. I understand were you're coming from but to say that "the players back then" didn't like the Seth Lovers is not true. Having said that.. This video is just a 40 minute add for Throbak. Mr Shull either get paid for this or gets a bunch of free stuff. Never trust an influencer. He jumped on the "Gibson Bashing Bandwagon" when Gibson gave him a free guitar and he put out a video saying that Gibson was great.. Go figure..
@@simonvanderheijden432 that would be a good point of Seymour Duncan hadn’t been so successful in making pickup replacements privately for years then decided to start his own company in 1976. His success was well before the 80’s. And most of the players you listed were known for modding and changing parts out on their guitars.
@@user-tz2zz5ij1s Most players i listed are know for playing stock guitars. (Not counting the changed tuners on some guitars) Albert King's V was stock, Pearly Gates is stock, Paul Kossofs guitars were stock, Greeny is (arguably) stock, Lukather's '59 is stock, the Beano burst was stock, Mick Ralphs '58 is stock, Tommy Bolin's '60's burst has stock pickups. Freddie didn't mod his guitars, neither did BB.. I believe Larry Carltons '59 ES335 has the original paf's in em.
Great subject- covered well. Love it
I love this s#%t! This guy's knowledge is so extensive its mind boggling! Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge sir!
Wow! Nice collaboration. Very informative content. :)
Awesome interview, great stuff!
nice, that last video had me wanting some more PAF talk
Jon sounded so dissapointed talking about Page switching to a T-Top after his bridge pickup goes out.
Awesome. Loved it!
I’m going to try Alnico II in the bridge and Alnico 4 in the neck.
Amazing video, thankyou sooo much!!!
The 490t/490r are alnico II paf-style pickups. What I think you had in the LP Classic was the 500t/496r, which are high-output ceramics.
Thank you!!!
Amazing video there pickups just kill it.
Please keep this nerd stuff up brother.
Gotta try some ThroBaks...btw Rhett I think the band would do a nice cover of the 70s Atlanta made song, ain't waisting time no more by the Allman Brothers
I played 5 less paul's from the same year on the same Marshall amp at the store, two sounded similar, and one had no mid tone no matter what I did to the amp. You have to match a pickup to the guitar.
A++ content Rhett.
I go to bed to this interview every night.
am i trippin or does rhetts voice sound like one of those hidden identity gang member interviews?
I just look for more harmonic content at brake up, that takes the right pickup in the right guitar. I have played a few PRS that stood out like that, and just played a new less paul with a 61 listed pick up that had it. All the early guitarist he list have that extra harmonic contend even at vastly different gain. It is a special condition.
Great interview! One of your best! Did you ever put throbak pickups in your les paul
It'd be cool to compare these to Ron Ellis' pickups.
What this guy is explaining is really teasing me, all of what he is describing, Im fighting with and seems it can be solved with proper pickups. Damn, but do the TroBaks costs a lot :-O.
PS: Gibson 498 pickups is Alnico 5 and medium, maybe borderline high output on the lower side of high output pickups.
Maybe you was thinking 496/500? Those are ceramic super high output.
You have a whole channel for super nerds!!!!
Out of curiosity, why is your voice at least a semi tone lower on the zoom call in comparison to your intro? Lol .. great interview btw!
Closed caption text is usually funny. The first two seconds in: "Hey, I'm Rhett Shull..." translated to: "Hey, I'm Rachel...". 😆
Sounds like one needs to travel with the guitar to the fitting room and try on pickups... colemusic.co/collections/pickups is another custom pickup shop, and their blogs trace the history of pickups. Thanks, Rhett!
Awesome content.
Greetings From Mexico!
So, Rhett, which set did you decide on?
I Want Gary Richraths 59 burst!! I will never buy another guitar if i could have this!!!
490R/498T are Alnico 5 mags. But yes they kinda suck; I agree there.
It all starts with a great guitar folks, a fantastic pickup will not save a tone-turd.
Throbak and Tom Holmes make good stuff. I've bought pickups from both and the service from both companies was great. Tom is retiring soon so put in your order soon. They're expensive but worth it imo.
Go to Throbak's TH-cam channel and he explains all this stuff with good video.
It's based off of how much the Gibson employee had to drink over the weekend.
Completely off topic but the OP-1 Synth that you said was discontinued in the last dipped in tone podcast is available on Thomann.
I
Has ThroBak been able to do an analysis of Duane Allman's pickups? I heard that he had a favorite set of '57 PAF's that he took out of a gold top of that year and traded it for a '59 sunburst which he put 57 PAF's in. That's supposedly his Live at the Fillmore guitar. He used an early SG Les Paul with PAF's for slide at that show. The goldtop was used on the Layla album with Clapton. Duane's playing and his tone are my favorite and I've been chasing it for decades. Is there a ThroBak Duane pickup? Also does ThroBak make the original volume and tone pots and wiring harness with real bumblebee caps? I wonder if the pickup selector switch also affects the tone.
I have vintage fender pickups that sound so good i wouldnt take 10000 for them, but ive wound atleast a hundred singlecoils to try and recreate them and i can never get them to sound like the vintage one, ive used same magnets and everything but never turns out the same or even close. I think the wire today is alot different. Then it was back then, and the magnets 2.
At this point the best PAF's I have ever owned besides the originals, is WIZZ. I'm sure there are some better ones but for the price and consistency they are hard to beat. I know the late and Great ED King loved'em.
Check out Brandonwound Pickups made in Columbus Ohio . Great pickups and custom pickups .
The only "proof" a T top ever resided in Page's les paul is one photo from the late 80s. He is holding the guitar with the double black exposed bobbins and somebody said the T is visible. I have never found this photo. No proof when this was installed or if it was a custom wind using parts drawer parts. For all we know the pickup was replaced more than once in zeppelin because back then a all gibson humbuckers were considered the same. I will only be satisfied when someone comes forward and says something like"My name is so and so and in 1972 I put a pickup in Jimmy's guitar that came out of a 1967 SG" or thereabouts. It is all speculation from a LATE 80s photo that has taken on a life of its own.
A vintage wind humbucker can only compete with the attitude of a p90 if a pedal is involved. A naturally compressing p90 sounds pissed off. I do love humbuckers too.
What did Rickenbacker use for their lap held steel guitars back in circa -1936 1937 ? The reason I’m asking is because my grandfather left me a circa 1936/37 lap held steel guitar , called the Frying Pan which has the first w/ the volume and one tone control on it and I still have that guitar in its original case from 36/37. Just wondering what the pickups are and how they made them as you’re saying about the P 90s and the P.A.F.’s … Any help here would be absolutely grateful. Thank you very much if you find out and get back to me, please.
My suggestion would be to inquire at the Rickenbacker Forums, some really informed people there.
What about early matsu Maxon PAF style pups (opinion) + also the Maxon minibucker (fi in 79/80 Greco lps)? Personally, I love m here on my guitars (idem Wilkinsons, see comment below) Thx!
Thank you SOOO much Rhett and Jon !! Wow , super informative.... though i would ask about other guitar heros like Larry Carlton, Robben Ford, Carlos Santana... Jon, what would you say to someone looking for those tones, or in other words, if you were tasked with replacing pickups for Larrys and/or Robbens 335's or Carlos' early tones,... what would you do? Thank you sooo much again !! Blessings to all y'all.... Mark :-)
He got it wrong. What makes a great PAF is the spacer wood. Kossoff's neck PAF had a spacer made of 384yo maple from easter slope of Kawchuga Mountain pissed off by 6yo female wolf on july 5th 1949.
Guitar forensics. Wow.
Which is why my 1971 Superchet had the most amazing tone you've ever heard. Those particular filtertrons were very microphonic, and picked up the resonance of that big acoustic chamber. It was like butter.
498t and 490 are alnico. Dirty Fingers, 496r, and 500t are ceramic
Jim Wagner pickups
Hello, my name is raeze and I am a guitar nerd
PS I find Ttops sound better then the PAFs I have played. Maybe because Ttops are lower DC desistance.
@@GCKelloch Thanks Buddy
they use poly wire and a short strong A5 magnet and fewer wounds （balanced too） so they sounded different😄some love them （jimmy page apparently loves his ttop replacement in his No.1‘s bridge pickup from 1972-1988 lol）some hate them 😂
Lets be honest, ima do a project on guitar stuff instead of what I need to cause of you😅
From what year on they put the stickers on it.?
late 57 maybe
🌟
p90 vs humbucker
First! Guess I’m extra nerdy lol
Mmm delicious snake oil.
This channel is great. My take away from this is that John has gone too far down the rabbit hole and needs some help..clearly he has a wealth of knowledge but seems to be trying to replicate a unicorn sound. He seems to contradict himself on many occasions. He was chasing the definitive vintage paf building process by .buying the original machines..getting magnets made and then, rightly, explains there is a huge random variation that he can actually replicate ( so therefore there is no one vintage PAF tone) then explains that they are also microphonic so therefore there is a huge influence imparted by the wood and construction of the instrument which he definitely cant replicate. He then explains that he wanted to replicate the machine wound nature by buying the original machines which didnt have an auto stop so the over and underwound nature of individual pick ups would be down to the machine operator..so is he going to hire the operators as well . 😉 I joke but the take away has to be... if you are looking for a vintage PAF tone it is going to be the combination of PU and Guitar... so buying from John, or any other maker, is not necessarily going to get yoù the vintage PAF tone your looking for... your just going to have to go and try guitars until you find the sound you want or buy vintage and hope you dont get a pup of a guitar... rememver vintage doesnt equal good. I have an 85 strat (so not vintage) I have had so many offers from real players for it... its just that good. I was just lucky when I bought it new back then. Good luck with the rabbit hole if you are after that specific PAF tone...(whatever the hell that is!) Still facinating stuff though.
If the pickups are PATENT APPLIED FOR why are you trying to copy them. ?. Did the patent rights expire?.
Gibson let many of their patents expire, and with others never enforced them. So anyone can freely make a PAF style pickup.
Still a clown from calling tube screamers trash while purposely making it sound bad
The whole PAF thing has gotten stupid. PAF pickups varied so much that the only thing you can "clone" is the looks of all the little details, most of which don't even affect tone. That's ok as long as people know that and thats what your after. Guitarists are worse than audiophiles when it comes to denying the placebo effect, hearing things that are far beyond the point of even measuring. I'm not saying PU's don't sound different but changing the bobbin screws from brass to steel you will never ever hear. A non potted PU being more "airy", jeez, it's your brain equating air between the winding being "airy" sounding, like you can hear the air. Even Jon's test between potted and non yielded the same tone. PRS's 57/08's are reguarded by some as one of the best sounding PU's. I've pulled the covers on PRS PU's, lots of wax. They appear to be potted with covers on. There is nothing, no reason a 70 dollar G&B pickup can't sound as much like SOME PAF as a 300 dollar boutique PU. So just trying to inject a little reason in.
So, the original PAFs were machine-made, by people who weren't guitar players. They were made with the idea of efficiency in mind so as to maximize profit. The operator of the winding machines was free to stop winding within a certain range. There were the usual external distractions/pressures on workers - what to eat for lunch, homelife, when's payday, worry about family and the world, etc. These people were just doing a day job.
Is it possible that the hallowed, original PAFs were just average, mass-produced products from the 1950's and 1960s? That there's nothing special about them and the players who happened to have them in their guitars were just great guitarists and the music they made came from their hands, hearts and minds rather than the pickups?
Overtones are NOT musical. Harmony, melody, rhythm, pacing, phrasing, using dynamics, time feel, IS musical. Overtones, pickups, gear is NOT musical. It's a TOOL. It's like saying the recoil of that hockey stick is athletic. NO, the hockey stick and its properties are NOT athletic. A tweed deluxe is NOT musical. These are TOOLS, not artists or athletes!
"acoustic transmission mechanically through the pickups" and other scientific sounding assertions are easily testable. Without that they are just opinion. Tapping on the pickup cover does not correlate with the assertion that the acoustic properties of the body wood influences the tone, as implied. The physics are different. Such suggestions indicate a lack of understanding, or other motives. Pickups can be scientifically measured to confirm how their physics relates to their heard, sonic performance. The fact that manufacturers fail to present that information raises questions regarding their credibility and motives. The notion of some people being "vintage pickup whisperers" may seem to be a better marketing approach for a willing, gullible audience.
Send back pickups Get Doyle Coil’s if you really want a true PAF those are crap .
l love this stuff. a couple of underestimated PAF lovers and manufacturers that have an impassioned love driving their work are Trev Wilkinson of Wilkinson pickups and the crew at Stew-Mac with their Parsons Street waxed and non-waxed PAF pickups. (Parsons Street was the Gibson factory address in Kalamazoo, MI.
I've used Wilkinson stuff. Really great!
I heard Dickey say in an interview,I believe for Gibson, that his neck p/u went dead. This was before music stores carried boutique pick ups. Pre Lollar,preFralin,pre ThroBak,and on,and on. He took it to the local music store in a small town and just traded his broken PAF out of his 57 Gold top for what ever the store had. He did not remember what it was. He did not care. He just wanted his guitar back. He said the replacement sounded as good or better then the PAF ever did. I believe he kept that replacement in to this day. Do you guys know another story about Dickies Gold Top?
so maybe duncan 😂
Dickie preferred Sheptone pickups
Hah before 1k views gang
Fascinating. As I like to learn about everything this was very satisfying :)
I also wonder how much of the PAF’s nuance’s are affected by the volume and tone potentiometers, and the players hands !
Rhett- great interview! I recently bought some PAFs from Tom Doyle of Doyle’s Coils. His claim to fame is guitar tech-omg for Les Paul for 45+ years. Like your interviewee they try to reproduce those iconic pickups as best they can. I love mine, which are neatly installed in a ‘59 spec LP a luthier friend of mine built. Hope you enjoy yours!
I came across Jon's PAF videos a while back when I started winding my own pickups. Very informative.
490r is Alnico II, 498t is Alnico V....neither is ceramic...but I do agree as they aren't the best sounding...
These contributions are absolutely fantastic! Getting an insight into all these details is amazing and makes us understand it all much better. It's just totally perspective-widening and enriching! Absolutely love this stuff. Please keep these type of background/evolution of gtr component contributions going, if possible. Thank you!
PAF pickup trucks (people accept Fords)
Man, If I didn't already understand what hes talking about, Id be badly confused by this. Hes apparently a good designer, but a terrible lecturer.
I remember many years ago reading an article in Guitarist magazine (UK) an interview with Hartley Peavy where he tried to debunk a lot of the mysteries of pickup winding saying that some people would have you believe that to get that special tone they need to be wound on a full moon and dipped in swamp water. In reality to the listener, with all the modern amp modeling and effects what makes more difference is what is at the other end of the guitar lead.
Brilliant. Love this stuff.
A master at his craft is always intriguing!
Noone else wondering why rhett pitched his voice down?
they r both tuned down
@@jerryyeaaah15 yeah... Why would je do that?
@@twantheunisz9281 maybe to slow the talking down 🤔
I think it was the Zoom recording, I didn’t do it on purpose.
@@RhettShull I assumed youd have your own audio recorded direct but now im thinking you used some kind of built in recording feature... Hmmm...