Destination: Skaro | Wait, Is THAT Davros!? | Doctor Who Children In Need 2023 Minisode Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Happy Doctor Who Anniversary Week!
The Fourteenth Doctor has landed in a brand new slice of Doctor Who. What does this mean or imply for the show moving forward? For such a brief, fleeting lighthearted scene there's a lot to unpack.
Fancy unpacking it?
______
Doctor Who is a BBC property and all clips are presented for the purposes of criticism, review and quotation under the 'Fair Dealing' clause governed by Sections 29 and 30 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
Background music is by JeX - whomix.windbub...
Title music is by Anthony Perry - whomix.windbub...
Title effects are by Christian Bodhi - pixabay.com/vi...
Please like, subscribe and spread the word!
Twitter - / _chris_stokes
Instagram - / chrisstokescomedy
I also co-host the comedy/cocktail/mystery podcast Mystery on the Rocks with fellow comedians Masud Milas and (Doom herself) Sooz Kempner - play.acast.com...
#doctorwho #fourteenthdoctor #davros #tardis #14thdoctor #drwho #childreninneed #childreninneedspecial #minisode
Even if Davros was problematic, and that's a big if, why didn't they just make him a full Dalek instead, like the only part that's left is a brain in a jar on the inside. Really double down on the madness.
Like remembrance or even Evil of the Daleks Emperor - many a theory that the Emperor dalek in the story is Davros lol. I remember hearing that in the 90s.
Thank goodness somebody else is questioning it! Loved the 'if'!! As a wheelchair and other mobility adaptations user, as well as amateur actor and writer, I find the idea that Davros can't be both a disabled person and a villain WAY more problematic. Offensive, actually. We're just as varied a range of people, good AND bad, as any other sector of the population. And some of us adore playing the bad guys.....we want a shot at megalomania and ALL the good lines in a script too!!
As for Davros doing the Big Bad Thing because of his bitterness and inability to accept his loss of mobility or out of resentment that others retain what he's lost....well, why not?
A lot of us (myself included) who become disabled at some point in life, especially as a young, previously non-restricted (both physically and in terms of our plans and ambitions) adults DO struggle to come to terms with our new body, future and reality. Often going through an angry bitter phase - as with any other type of grief. We get past it - but that doesn't mean it's easy or invalidate how hard we had to work on ourselves and our privilege and prejudices.
Davros just stayed in that anger/denial stage. In many ways, seeing him be that way is helpful, boosting our self esteem and sense of growth and achievement for NOT being like him. It shows we were never the only ones to feel it too. Proves to us we took the right path and acts as an example (tho a bad one) and an isolation easer for those of us still in that stage.
Itz part of our reality and experience just as much as anything able bodied folk encounter.
We have the right to be both villains and heroes too. And to have our own 'there but for the grace of gods/ lot of hard work' reflections to recognise and ponder.
Just as much as anyone else does
And if that makes the able bodied uncomfortable, maybe they should ask themselves why? Aren't we people just the same way they are??
Sorry to philosophise. Was wondering why the whole thing made me suddenly angry and uncomfortable and this was the answer I came to after shrugging off the cloak of auto-offence and pondering my own instinct.
Peace guys and happiness to all
The outcry about the change of Davros is a mountain out of a molehill. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
No it's not. It nothing to do with nostalgia, it's insideous identity politics taking hold.
@@christopherhowarth9801 Julian's range and performance as non-scarred Davros leaves the scarred Davros in the dust.
So what makes dr who dr who? Should we just take the Daleks away because they're based on racists and it may offend people?
The issue I have is I've never heard any criticism about Davros. I find it odd that now he's finding the character problematic yet he was the one to bring him back to NuWho with such joy and delight. I seen on other comment sections who covered this a lot of disabled people are upset by the change as Davros was never seen to them in the way RTD described. They actually put some great arguments on why RTD is so wrong. The issue which came up a lot was so Wheelchair users can never be evil and they discussed how in most dramas wheelchair users are always happy and never have an evil thought - which they find more offensive. I found it fascinating hearing the other side of the argument from those RTD is claiming to "champion" with his decision.
I agree with you don't use him. Having g him walking around will just cause more issues with continuity and rip the fandom apart. If it was a two or three part special showing Davros before the accident minus the Doctor from the story. I think most would enjoy it with no issues.
Part of me also thinks it's to do with this Disney channel deal. A Disney has very strict guidelines on what can be shown on their streaming services also those who watch Dr Who esp in America may not really fully understand the character of Davros and you can see the issue which could occur. But what RTD said has a strong risk of making Genesis of the Daleks (or other Davros stories) problematic like Talons of WC esp with the current trend in some pockets of the community.
God I dread to think what he currently thinks about Sil?
Sil: yes....ah-la-la-la-la-la-la
(u can picture the wiggling tongue while saying that lmao!) 🤣✌️🍻🤘
@@steve-0493definitely he was such an iconic villain 😂👍
@@Mark-nh2hs yh they need to work a 'timey-wimey' way to bring Sil back lol!!😁✌️🍻
@@steve-0493PMSL oh they will find a way they will retcon Mindwarp to say Sil's brain was transferred in another human - so they can get another actor to play the role 😂
I agree with you that the conversation Davros should have just been retired.
This solution almost feels like making a previously chair-using character not so, which is almost like whitewashing. Bit strmage
The tone was wrong for the show as it currently stands. This knockabout fluff piece is fine within the CIN context, broadly speaking. However, the tone is more that of a show riding the crest of a wave. Doctor Who has to reconnect to many lost viewers and something more like Born Again or Time Crash would have served the show better in its current state.
I just felt the RTD comments about previous writers not being to 'blame' for the unenlightened times they were working in to be demonstrably inaccurate and patronising. What is Dortmun from The Dalek Invasion of Earth (1964) if not a positive representation of a disabled character? What is Galaxy Four (1965) if not a story about the misconception of what is visually monstrous? What is Sevrin in Genesis of The Daleks (1975) if not a heroic/reliable friend and a positive representation of a character initially construed to be a monster? I think there's a lot more nuance from writers who had experienced aspects of the second world war in their own and their families lives that informs their work and the suggestion that we're more inclusive these days is a little too smug and self-congratulatory for my taste. I'd also agree with those that say that villains can often be scarred as an indication of a risk takers potentially violent life, rather than as some sort of statement about physical ugliness. Ultimately I didn't find the justifications as presented in Unleashed convincing at all.
These are all strong points, particularly about the early show's capacity to be more enlightened than is often remembered. And as I say in my video, I don't think Davros should have been altered in this way and declared to be "this way now" while still being sympathetic to them wanting to possibly move away from what is a definite trope. Like I say, if they wanted to do that the best way was to just not use Davros. In all, I think the heart was in the right place but do feel like it's been executed and articulated a little clumsily. But as I also say in my video, when the discussion about this is civil and intelligent (such as your own comment) I find it incredibly invigorating. For a 5 minute bit of fluff to generate such discussion makes me wonder what we'll have to talk about going forward!
Within a five minute clip, RTD has shown us that online Who fandom will be as divided as ever.
I love this channel and im pleased thus video is getting more interaction than others, but i can see from the comments under it that 'current' episode discourse is something that i will purposefully steer away from. Cowardly? Maybe, but nobody changes their mind on the internet and i dont want to connect doctor who with feeling miserable.
The thing I’ve I asked a few of my disabled friends is, is negative representation better than no representation at all, and they said yes.
If you want to fix the stereotype, create more good wheelchair-bound people instead of eliminating the bad ones .
Charles Xavier does exist. If you eliminate Davros’ wheelchair you have to eliminate Xavier’s wheelchair.
That’s kind of how equality and equal representation worse
The issue I've read from many (no all) disabled/wheelchair users is most dramas always portray disabled wheelchair users/disabled people as always happy, do not have any dark thoughts and are pure in every way. Which many (not all) do find offensive as it says disabled people cannot be evil and are made to look even more different to other people forming a stereotype.
What happens if a disabled/wheelchair user actor wants to play an evil character - according to RTD that's a no no? So limiting these actors to be stereotyped as I mentioned above. Imagine RTD view on Sil.
@@Mark-nh2hs so it’s the over correcting that they have an issue with?
@@tmbsports3720Yeah over correcting is a good point and the stereotyping in dramas. They are human with the same human emotions they love, hate, manipulate and can be evil the same as anybody else. I find it odd that he was the one to bring Davros back in NuWho and he gushed his love for this iconic villain back then and had no issue but suddenly the character is an issue? It makes me wonder what he will find offence next? Cybermen - saying people with artificial prosthetics are displayed as being unemotional and "Evil".
Daleks are called the Mark III travel machine. Davros' chair is the Mark I travel machine. To say Davros created Daleks before the accident is just false.
Then genesis of the Dallas is false
The whole Davros thing has me worried as it feels like Davis is gonna start doing massive other retcons like the timeless child and…well…find me one person who likes the timeless child.
Me
And mw - it puts the 'who' back inti Doctor Who @@chris_stokes
@@chris_stokes you are in the minority
@@stevebishop9468 never said otherwise
I wouldn't worry too much, this was just as silly charity skit. And the actors weren't paid, they are hardly going to put julian through hours of make up.
Has RTD consulted the Terry Nation Estate before making such massive changes to the franchise?
Introducing 'Dave Ross Burns' and his trusty sidekick, 'Smithers'.
So will daleks stand next ? Because that’s the whole reason why created the daleks. He didn’t see his disability as a hindrance, it actually inspired him to create the deadliest creatures in the Universe ie. The Daleks. What’s next are the Sontarans gonna be 6ft soldiers now because they suffered from dwarfism misrepresentation?
The one thing I keep thinking about, that i don't see anyone else talking about is the Doctors line of "The canon and timelines are rupturing" which is because of his realisation were he is. Now originally i just thought this was pre accident Davros, as i have yet to meet him in Classic who i was unaware of any timeline contradictions. But do we think maybe that could be a clue to some of the madness to come? Of course we have had the Doctor messing with the timey wimey before, but could RTD be exploring a more malleable timeline and its effects going forward? Maybe Flux had something to do with this, i forget all the details of that story but i saw that RTD will be referencing it at least a little in the future
Don't normally comment on old videos but the idea of retiring Davros rather than changing him is an interesting one. RTD knows he won't be in charge forever. By changing Davros now and keeping the change for the next 4 or so series he forces future production teams to adopt the change whereas if he just stopped using him he leaves the next team, who might think differently, open to bring him back as he was before. He couldn't guarantee Davros being retired forever so he's updated him instead.
Sorry to disagree with some of you people! The segement wasn't much kop! Davros with legs is OK but in all honesty he should have been in his half Dalek set up. Being in a wheelchair I am not offended what so ever so R.T.D is appeasing the Karens of the world. My overall opinion is that the children in need segement wasn't really as good as what I was expecting. Dissapointed in truth. I am now concerned for the future of Doctor Who because there are millions not thousands who will just switch off. R.T.D has written 2 seasons where the 2nd new series is already being shot so do wonder what the quality of stories are not going be as good as what one is expecting. I love Doctor Who but the Jodie era was rubbish and viewers were switiching off in their millions so R.T.D is going to have to be a very clever man to bring those viewers back. Sadly I don't believe that R.T.D is going to get the viewers back judging by the children in the need skit! 2/5 for my opinion amd that was that David Tenant is a bloody good actor. David Tenant is the best Doctor Who the show as ever had so yeah go figure!
As a disabled person, Davros never bothered me at all, I actually find him quite entertaining and it never occured to me that he might have been problematic. However, I do understand and agree with RTD's point. The new design is fine by me as long as there's a good explanation for it, even if it's as simple as "This Davros is from a parallel universe in which the accident didn't happen."
As long as everything is set up well, explained well and given some time to marinate in my head I'm usually okay with stuff. Obviously there are exeptions, but I'm not just going to judge by 5 minutes of footage and an instagram post. Grander and more upsetting stuff has happend in doctor who's past that had more ramifcations for the canon which nobody seems to talk about or be upset about (anymore).
In 1963, the Daleks were people damaged and mutated by nuclear radiation. They adapted by living as cyborgs inside Dalek casings. Technically, every Dalek is a disabled person. Russell T Davies is now in a tight corner. If the retcon of Davros is to be applied consistently, then the Daleks would have to become evil robots, following on from "Destiny of the Daleks", where Terry Nation had retconned the Daleks into robots to borrow a plot idea from Isaac Asimov, to pit them against the Movellan robot race. As an aside, the Daleks could be given legs, thus converting them into fudged, low rent Cybermen. The Cybermen are disabled people with augmented cybernetic appliances. The principle is exactly the same as with Davros, the Daleks and the Cybermen. A bird breaking a snail's shell with a stone is using a tool. Tool usage predates humanity. A bird is an advanced form of dinosaur. Davros' chair, the Tardis and a smartphone are all applied technology. If this principle is to be applied consistently, then we would have to live as less than animals who have used simple tools for millions of years. The HG Wells "War of the Worlds" Martians would be forced to relinquish their tripod war machines in the service of political correctness and the song thrush would starve through want of a stone to obtain vital food. It is vital to apply an idea consistently. Making Davros into a goose-stepping Twinkletoes can be seen as politically correct cherrypicking. No Davros chair. No Daleks. No Cybermen. If the Daleks had not appeared in 1963, NO DR WHO!!! The show would have been axed due to declining viewer ratings, a trend dramatically reversed by the success of the disabled Dalek creatures, who found a way of surviving by resourceful, technological adaptation to an altered and hostile environment. Davros was the architect of this. "NuHu" is a towering edifice of retrospective continuity. It will be forced to remain so in order to retrieve the vital cornerstones and pillars of the show. The relationship of living beings to technology and survival is part of life and the implications raised by the future possibilities of this is huge. This goes way beyond Dr Who. It is a vital ingredient of Science Fiction itself. More importantly still. Science Fact!!!
as a learning disability person would be happy see more mix up positivity velvet then not exit on tv show we can be good or bad human person
Who looks at a person in a wheel chair and thinks “bad guy”
Really?
I was quite surprised by this because Russell said it wasn’t a comedy sketch but… it is a comedy sketch. I thought it was fine I wasn’t disappointed
I agree with your take on Davros too though, similarly, I am also an able bodied person
Personally I think changing past characters comes across as more patronising than it does well intentioned despite it obviously being well intentioned whereas leaving this characters in the past sends a “we can move on” message
But again my perspective on that isn’t going to be as valuable as the perspective from people this actually affects
As Shania Twain once said (kind of)... so it's the Doctor happily helping create the Daleks. That didn't impress me much.
no one has ever mentioned the fact that Davros is crippled as a reason for his villainy. He's only ever seen as an evil scientific genius. Personally I think thats a really positive thing. It's only RTD making it an issue now when it's never been an issue. Dr Who has been hemorrhaging viewers for the longest time now and all these ret-cons aren't going to bring loads of all fans back or new fans in so it just seems like a South Park Panderverse parody
Are you going to be watching the dalek colonisation and doing a review of it. Would love to hear your thoughts on it and the concept of colourising 60s doctor who
I don't like breaking sequence on a marathon so I actually will probably hold off for a bit, but it's such an interesting idea that I may do a video about it regardless... I'm torn tbh
@@chris_stokes I get that, be similar to enemy of the world and web where you waited til the next marathon to watch it. I respect it, would make an interesting video though and suppose would you really pick this over the original as I think there is also new material filmed for it. Either way I think it raises interesting discussion which could be good.
Comic Relief sketch canon discourse is so much easier. They bring back an old sitcom for a scene, and everyone agrees that it was poor and should be entirely disregarded. No drama 🙂
I will qualify this by saying that some stories, such as Revelation of the Daleks, really use Davros very well, but I think that, purely thematically, the character should have been killed off for good at the end of Genesis. The idea of an evil genius stubbornly pressing ahead with his plans for the future of his race, refusing to give the new creature the capacity for pity, only to be wiped out by his own creation for not meeting their hateful narrow-minded standards is delicious, and part of me wishes that that was the character's arc.
Agree - the Children in Need doesn't feel like a link like Time Crash and other previous minisodes. Regarding Davros, the fan-brain of me needs a patch (sadly) - my take is there are colliding time streams competing for actualisation. When one time stream triumphs, its current colliding time stream is rendered a 'ghost' one and never happened. However the Tardis has eccentric memory banks which remembers the ghost time stream - not the actualised one.
His slightly less evil brother? Clutching at woolen threads here!
Somehow I think RTD misunderstands why Davros is evil. But I agree that if we want to go away from the trope, just retire Davros. I'm not sure there is that much to be done with his story anymore anyhow.
I'm perfectly fine with the change because it is a pre-accident Davros, it's not as if RTD has gone back and changed all the old episodes 'fix' Davros. It's not like it's the first time onscreen that Davros has been seen unscared and out of the chair (see Season 9. eps 1 & 2).
Sorry Chris, love your content, but this such a wet take.
Changing Davros doesn't serve disabled people at all. All it serves is RTD's virtue-signalling ego. Besides, Davros isn't a wheelchair user, he's a dead body, kept alive by technology. I think it's pretty denegrating to equate him to someone who doesn't have the use of their legs.
If Russell really cared about representation, he'd focus more on creating brand new protagonist roles for people in wheelchairs (such as with Ruth Madeley) and stop punching-down on everything people love.
Honestly when I first heard about the davros change I was angry they would change such an iconic character. After sitting with it for a few days as a fan I can not like the change but get use to it. Russell's view on this I can understand in the context of this character but this way of thinking in a grander sense is very limiting. He is insinuating that disabled characters cant be evil not only is that limiting for the types of disabled characters but also for disabled actors who want to be on the show. At the end of the day RTD is the showrunner and can do as he likes. I just wished he would have marketed this change to fans better knowing that there would be a backlash. It does give me pause about the future of the show though if he is willing to change such an iconic character what else is he willing to change?
Totally agree it's creating a stereotype as most dramas (no all) who have a disabled character are always happy, level headed and have no negative human traits - which in reality is not true they are still human. Next he will have issues with Cybermen - saying the species is problematic for individuals who have artificial prosthetics, portraying them a unemotional and cold.
Part of me thinks this has something to marketing to America and Disney streaming. As Disney has strict guidelines and many Americans are still unfamiliar with Doctor Who and are a lot more sensitive. They see Davros and it doesn't take much for a scene to occur lol.
Agreed I really can't get on board with the hype ... Loved Eccleston, but never got on board with tennsnt at all ... Those fans of his will be happy but to me it's hideous that they disrespect Smith Capaldi and Whittaker:-/ I feel I'm in mourning rather than excitement
I dont know why they didn't just use a different character. They must have known people would react, but then maybe that was intentional!
Rather they left the character out of future stories as davros is such recognised evil villain and changing his image completely is not on and your chasing away the loyal fans of the programme with this nonsense.
The biggest crime committed by this distinctly un-special special was including anything to do with the Daleks. I’m sick to death of them and until someone does something really special with the bloody things, leave them out entirely. I’m 100%up for reinventing Who so stop cocking about with the past and DO SOMETHING ORIGINAL!
As a coda to this, I agree that if you want better disabled representation, bin Davros completely and give us an interesting companion who we can enjoy in terms their uniqueness. That would actually be a change that fits the spiritual ethos of Doctor Who
Bright side is that at least they might just leave the daleks for this sketch and not the series.
''It's a night where issues of disability or otherness or being excluded from society come right to the front of the conversation. So of all the nights to make this change, I thought it was absolutely vital to do this. And I'm very, very, very proud of the fact that we have.'’ Russell T Davies
Children in Need Special was depicted as the Genesis of the Daleks, which re-rights the canon from Tom Baker’s Doctor Who.This is Woke gone mad, Davros is a fictional character from Genesis of the Daleks written by Terry Nation for Tom Baker’s Doctor Who in 1975. Davros and the Daleks are a parody of Adolf Hitler and fascism. The lower half of Davros body was mutilated beyond recognition during the war with the Thals, hence the mobile life-support on which the mutated Kaleds i.e. Daleks were modeled. Russell T Davies thinks it’s OK to undo 48 years of Dr Who canon; sorry this isn’t how you address issues of disability and prejudice.
Wokeness is about opposing social injustice, sex discrimination, racism, inequality and poverty, what Russell T Davies is doing is a travesty. Dr Who at its best is entertainment, sort of educational with historical story lines and obviously about science fiction, but as with Daleks, Cybermen and stories from the classic era like An Unearthly Child 100,000 BC and The Savages there are moral issues that can be picked out.
This is why I love Classic Who and why I’ve watched it ever since that first story in 1963, New Who has moved further and further from the premise Sydney Newman had back in the beginning, it’s been dumbed down with the quality of acting and stories falling in quality. In my opinion, Sylvester McCoy’s Doctor was the last worthy of the legacy of Hartnell, Troughton and the likes of Tom Baker.
If RTD wants to be Woke, address social issues like the growing divide between rich and poor and between the developed and developing world, the ecological crises and climate change. Changing Davros from a cyborg to a totally hominid organisms is just playing at it and a distraction away from the big issues facing humanity. It might make RTD feel good and important, but all it really achieves is to trash Who canon and offend many of those of us who have been fans for decades.
From what I've seen so far the 14th talks and acts identical the same as the 10th just older. If he acted soooo differently from the 10th including his mannerisms I would of gone interesting whats going on? Familiar face but definitely not the behaviour.
Ppl do realize that this Davros BRFORE the accident, right? Cuz it sounds like alot of pple are under the impression that this is how Davros will be from now on, retconning him in the chair
Most classic Who fans are totally aware of Davros before the incident and are aware this is pre accident. The confusion is the timeline of this event and when the Daleks were first created. The Big Finish drama "I' Davros" covers this period and from what I recall he created the Daleks after the accident it was during his experimentations of Thal DNA was when the accident occurred - post this Davros pushed to creating the Daleks.
As a Davros fan,they dont need to change/retcon him 'to plz ppl' fuck that!!he been around already for almost 50yrs,and its been fine!!and so is/was the whole world lol...im not looking at the whole disability thing as being evil(im not myself,BUT HAVE HAD FRIENDS DISABLE ETC)...And i never took them as villians lol,these guys wwre my friends years back!! So plz dont change him just cause ppl are whiners...also,if ur start going off and be cynical and shit,then perhaps,just maybe ur proving the whole villain in the wheelchair ,cause ur doing it,NOT US!!🤦♂️🤷♂️😑✌️🍻
Davros and daleks over used in new who need put away
I'm not really looking forward to DT coming back myself, but he will put bums on sofas. I can't stand his fake London accent, so they should have let him keep his Scottish accent to differentiate the 14th from the 10th IMO. I hope the slack-jawed gurning isn't going to make a reintroduction. In this minisode, I liked seeing Davros in this form, as long as we see it as a pre-Genesis character.
I think it would have been a lot funnier if they had played it straighter and not had that awful, silly music.
Like you I’m struggling to find the reason to do this now. As Davros won’t be appearing in the next few years why tell fans years in advance? It can only be that RTD is sending us a message. This is 2023, we see things differently through our lens. The lens of Woke Ideology. At least I know the show isn’t for me anymore. Message received and understood.
Evil people who engage in acts of violence get scars and disfigured shocker!
As Shania Twain once said (kind of)... so it's the Doctor happily helping create the Daleks. That didn't impress me much.