Handy Ableton tip from a bass head: Ableton has Multiband Dynamics, which allows you to separate the signal into lows, mids, and tops. Group that so it goes into an Effect Rack, and then duplicate the existing chain in it twice, so you'll have three identical signal chains with Multiband Dynamics. Then solo the chains for sub, mids, and tops using the Solo function of Multiband Dynamics. This way you can easily control the level of all three ranges AND add separate effects and do individual processing for all the chains / three frequency ranges. How cool is that? :)
@@ArmanMousavi-nb9pw You create an effect rack for your bass that has three chains, all of which split the bass onto different frequency ranges using MB Dynamics. You can then process all chains differently.
That's a good info and I tried it. Mapping the Crossovers to a Macro is a comfortable way. But when I compared it with the original sample (phase flip), it is different. The crossovers are not linear phase, so this is why FabFilter tools work here perfectly.
Has anybody else noticed that when using shaper box in sync mode, the more plugins you have loaded up the more latency affects the side chain and it is no longer properly synced? A workaround is just using an audio trigger with the kick or a duplicate trigger
Awesome explanation as always, serves as a great starting point. Just listened to some classics last week, like Rui Da Silva's Touch me and those where some crappy mixes :) So the song is as important too off course, we sometimes forget that and spend too much time on the technical (not a comment just a thought) :)
What do you do to compensate for the fact that the reference tracks is already fully mastered and the tracks your working on is not? Gives different levels, right?
But what is the difference between comparing a mastered track with (our) non mastered track? wouldnt it make sense to compare with another non mastered track?
Record like there is no mixing, mix like there is no mastering... get it as close to where you want the final product to be as much and as fast as possible... Mastering will only enhance what you have already done
thats what I missed here too, in general when referencing adjust the loudness with e.g. utility to -16db or whatever the lufs of your mix are to compensate for the mastering
Love the video and i leave a like! But.... When you compared the versions at the beginning, you remove the highs from the song (hi hats, clap, and percs) and then add those highs at the (fix version) that makes a huge difference and makes the a/b comparison hard to notice... all points you said here are valid, but it actually depends on your song, if it has one layer or multiple layers of that bassline to make this approach, best case scenario is to eq the low/mid/high parts in or out of your bassline if it is just a single bassline sound
One thing I would like to say Alice, is that the zoom you give in editing may be a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, it is nice, but all the time it's not cool. Please leave a fullscreen moment, where we can see the whole chain. Sometimes I get lost watching your videos, love your work, keep up
Thanks, makes a big difference ! one thing i didn't get' how u made the 3 Bass tracks, did u duplicate one synth bass track (VSTi Or audio ?) to 3 same tracks, or other technique with routing to separate them ?
Dumb question. So are you having one instance of the sub and routing the signal into the 3 or 3 instances of the sub and sculpting. Amazing tutorial and great tips like always. Thanks!
The bass deep dive video doesn't pop up for me. Would you mind linking it? I'd really like to watch it though unsure which of your videos it is. Thanks!
when using a gentle high cut on the sub and leave in some 70-200ish Hz, does this never phase cancel with the mid bass which is playing at 100 Hz and up? Assuming the same note
this highly depends on the phase relation between both basses. I think in this case it even were two different basses. so actually you're not able to say if this would cause cancelation in general, but there potentially is. So that means you need to check the phase of both before and after. There are either tools to visualise this or you just bounce them to audio and compare them, also good to check how the waveforms sum up
@@Sindicate_DnB Thanks for the reply! Even if different basses have different waveforms wouldn't there still be some cancellation if they are tonal and playing at the same note? For example the D at 72 Hz, if both a sine and square wave in opposite phase produce some cancellation here?
@@cropcellyes they either cancel or add up depending on where the phase position of their waveform starts. Hill on hill adds up, hill on valley cancels. That's what I meant with phase relation. So for example in Serum you can set the starting point of the waveform by using the phase knob of an oscillator. Now also as you already asked a high cut or any type of slope will result in a phase shift in the area the slope is at. The amount of that shift depends on how steep the slope is. So even a bell curve will let the phase shift for those frequencies where the EQ curve is not horizontal. But I wouldn't overthink all of this too much, music is still art and art has imperferctions and that is good! Of course if you did take care a lot about the phase in the first place and then decide do make drastic EQ decisions afterwards then you can use linear phase mode to avoid any phase shift.
@@cropcell when a sine and a square play together and they have an oppositve phase correlation, so sine has hill where square has valley, the result will be a square wave with cancallation on its fundamental fequency
So your not bandpassing the eq on the mid section? Then it is doubling with the high end? Obviously you can adjust levels, just wondering why no low pass on mid. Thanks
This was in not "a must" so it really depends on the layers themselves. So I suggest trying both and deciding which one sounds better. In this specific case, the top layer is 2 octave above the body layer so it is already kind of seperated harmonically. And I liked the sound of them together.
Nowadays I would start with the body, a bass that I really like the sound of it. And then depending on the sound, I would either seperate to sub (often), or just keep it one layer if everything is working.
Now check your phase and look at all the volume dips those zero latency filters gave you when you sum it all back together. Much better to use natural/linear phase.
This is not correct. The mid bass has random phase which means that it will start at a random phase and regardless of you use linear phase filter or zero latency filter, results will be same. Becuase each hit = random starting point = random phase. Then you can ask, why do you use random phase on the mid bass? Glad you asked! Fixed phase oscillator means removing phase randomness from the sound. Which lead to very stale sound. Genres like melodic techno thrives when the bass really feels warm, analog and when it evolves. And because we removed most of the sub frequencies from the mid bass (below 80 HZ) the sub area will be actualy relatively stable. A 10% volume change in sub bass can sound pretty nice most of the time. On top of that, linear filter comes with their own issues. Most noticable ones are latency and pre-ringing. I hate plugins that ads tons of latency. Yet there is one method that is superior to both linear filters or high passing method; and it is called "waveform editing". And you won't even need to use an equalizer to seperate the sub and the bass. Briefly, you can edit the waveform and remove the fundamental frequency (or even second or third harmonic if you need to) and have an exteremely clean seperation between different layers of bass. Why not explain that in this video? Because it is really overkill for most of the basses most of the time. But, I have a detailed explanation and example of that in this video if you are interested in waveform editing and how it can work: th-cam.com/video/M4UfZ8YEZ7w/w-d-xo.html
@@Alice-Efe This IS correct, and you can easily verify with PHA-979 or whatever metering tool you use. But what you’re saying is you’re introducing phase cancelling at random on purpose? In that case why not just use a humanize random velocity function set to a percentage so that ALL your basses hit uniformly random and you'll maintain proper phase correlation? Also the filters will have to change to be program dependent unless you’re just hitting a single note.
@@PaulEubanks Random starting position of the oscillator means subtle changes in timbre, not volume. It results in random phase cancellation but that's a side effect. What we want is the timbre changes which feels great and velocity wont do that
Everyone has already made exactly this same video. Everyone has done it. Do we really need this video? Searching for "mixing perfect low end" gives a hysterical number of results, and if you watch some of those videos, everyone is saying exactly the same thing, which is what's being said here. I also have an ideological objection to these techniques; they lock producers into familiar rules which stifle expression and creativity. The eq advice given here only works well if the bass notes never stray outside a very narrow range. The sidechaining advice requires kicks to only play four-on-the-floor. If you follow this advice, you subscribe to these rules, and you have limited your expression. You will reproduce music that has already been produced countless times, same as this video is a reproduction of countless other videos. I think the less rules we lock ourselves into, the more music prospers.
This exact video is actually requested by community by community poll; th-cam.com/users/postUgkxN85BOkyPhxjPvCyFLhLro41GeRzXW0Sr?si=2DGcZVuxxPMpmepX So my or your personal preference don't matter if a lot of people believes they need a video like this. Regarding the rules, I would say it is important to understand how things work first and then break it afterwards. Similarly, in the video, I actually suggested that on the mid range, you shouldn't bound too much by levels or how reference is. Just understand how it works but more import thing is how you like to have it. Similarly on top range as well. My personal opinion (which is subjective) is that a health combination of rules and breaking rules often leads to really cool stuff.
These aren’t creative rules, they’re technical guidelines that can be applied to many genres. And in music production, the technical side is often just as important as the creative side. And just like the creative side, it builds on decades of knowledge and experience from thousands of people. You can’t really ignore it and expect to still make competitive music.
Hi Alice, I've been watching your videos for years, your fantastic tips and tricks. I'm not in the habit of writing people comments but I wanted to send you my new cheerful song and video too, just for fun. I don't know if I can put a link here, but I'll try. I wish you a wonderful and magnificent new year!!! th-cam.com/video/LHMcLzT8Osg/w-d-xo.html
Handy Ableton tip from a bass head:
Ableton has Multiband Dynamics, which allows you to separate the signal into lows, mids, and tops.
Group that so it goes into an Effect Rack, and then duplicate the existing chain in it twice, so you'll have three identical signal chains with Multiband Dynamics.
Then solo the chains for sub, mids, and tops using the Solo function of Multiband Dynamics.
This way you can easily control the level of all three ranges AND add separate effects and do individual processing for all the chains / three frequency ranges.
How cool is that? :)
wicked advice fanu
Gotta love Ableton!!!
So you are basically saying: group our sub, mid, and top. Put a multi band as an insert onto that group and shape using the Multiband Dynamics tool?
@@ArmanMousavi-nb9pw You create an effect rack for your bass that has three chains, all of which split the bass onto different frequency ranges using MB Dynamics. You can then process all chains differently.
That's a good info and I tried it. Mapping the Crossovers to a Macro is a comfortable way. But when I compared it with the original sample (phase flip), it is different. The crossovers are not linear phase, so this is why FabFilter tools work here perfectly.
This was epic. Having three bass channels makes so much sense
yeah it just skips the complicated process.. I'm learning mixing and mastering by myself and going to try this..
You can explain really good. I learned a lot from you.
Alice you have great advice always! Thank you and Happy New Ywar 🎉🙏🔥🎸🌶️
Thank you and happy new year too!
THIS IS SUPERB TUTORIAL!!!! BIG BIG BIG THANKS ALICE..
Has anybody else noticed that when using shaper box in sync mode, the more plugins you have loaded up the more latency affects the side chain and it is no longer properly synced? A workaround is just using an audio trigger with the kick or a duplicate trigger
Brilliant upload and extremely helpful, bless you my techno angel ❤
Awww thanks a ton! 😇
Awesome explanation as always, serves as a great starting point. Just listened to some classics last week, like Rui Da Silva's Touch me and those where some crappy mixes :) So the song is as important too off course, we sometimes forget that and spend too much time on the technical (not a comment just a thought) :)
Marvelous like ever,
Thnx so much!!
Glad you liked it!
Happy New Year 🦋🎆
We've been practicing this technique since one of your other videos and it's a real gamer changer!!! Thanks Alice
Aww happy to hear that! All the best to you!
What do you do to compensate for the fact that the reference tracks is already fully mastered and the tracks your working on is not? Gives different levels, right?
and in a different key
I really enjoy your videos where you teach stuff like this; they're my favorite.
excellent video as always, definitely using this when mixing down my next track !
Good luck with your track! 😊
But what is the difference between comparing a mastered track with (our) non mastered track? wouldnt it make sense to compare with another non mastered track?
Record like there is no mixing, mix like there is no mastering... get it as close to where you want the final product to be as much and as fast as possible... Mastering will only enhance what you have already done
thats what I missed here too, in general when referencing adjust the loudness with e.g. utility to -16db or whatever the lufs of your mix are to compensate for the mastering
The goat
Love the video and i leave a like!
But....
When you compared the versions at the beginning, you remove the highs from the song (hi hats, clap, and percs) and then add those highs at the (fix version)
that makes a huge difference and makes the a/b comparison hard to notice...
all points you said here are valid, but it actually depends on your song, if it has one layer or multiple layers of that bassline to make this approach, best case scenario is to eq the low/mid/high parts in or out of your bassline if it is just a single bassline sound
That was nice. Thanks!
learning so much
thanks
so you prefer to use Shaperbox as Volume control instead of a compressor?
One thing I would like to say Alice, is that the zoom you give in editing may be a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, it is nice, but all the time it's not cool. Please leave a fullscreen moment, where we can see the whole chain. Sometimes I get lost watching your videos, love your work, keep up
the best !
It would be totally cool if you could make similar videos but for iPad music production for us mobile music producers! 🖤📱
Thanks, makes a big difference !
one thing i didn't get' how u made the 3 Bass tracks, did u duplicate one synth bass track (VSTi Or audio ?) to 3 same tracks, or other technique with routing to separate them ?
would it be possible for you to use a pointer highlighter on your mouse? and for the keystrokes? for the video itself give thumbs up
I will look into it 😊
Dumb question. So are you having one instance of the sub and routing the signal into the 3 or 3 instances of the sub and sculpting.
Amazing tutorial and great tips like always. Thanks!
we need more mix tutorials, this mix tutorial with reference
huuuuuuge thank you so much Alice!
Glad it was helpful!
The bass deep dive video doesn't pop up for me. Would you mind linking it? I'd really like to watch it though unsure which of your videos it is. Thanks!
No worries, here it is: This Will Fix Most of Your BASS Problems 🔊
th-cam.com/video/OTKx3-EjS30/w-d-xo.html
Awesome ❤
when using a gentle high cut on the sub and leave in some 70-200ish Hz, does this never phase cancel with the mid bass which is playing at 100 Hz and up? Assuming the same note
this highly depends on the phase relation between both basses. I think in this case it even were two different basses. so actually you're not able to say if this would cause cancelation in general, but there potentially is. So that means you need to check the phase of both before and after. There are either tools to visualise this or you just bounce them to audio and compare them, also good to check how the waveforms sum up
@@Sindicate_DnB Thanks for the reply! Even if different basses have different waveforms wouldn't there still be some cancellation if they are tonal and playing at the same note? For example the D at 72 Hz, if both a sine and square wave in opposite phase produce some cancellation here?
@@cropcellyes they either cancel or add up depending on where the phase position of their waveform starts. Hill on hill adds up, hill on valley cancels. That's what I meant with phase relation. So for example in Serum you can set the starting point of the waveform by using the phase knob of an oscillator.
Now also as you already asked a high cut or any type of slope will result in a phase shift in the area the slope is at. The amount of that shift depends on how steep the slope is. So even a bell curve will let the phase shift for those frequencies where the EQ curve is not horizontal.
But I wouldn't overthink all of this too much, music is still art and art has imperferctions and that is good! Of course if you did take care a lot about the phase in the first place and then decide do make drastic EQ decisions afterwards then you can use linear phase mode to avoid any phase shift.
@@cropcell when a sine and a square play together and they have an oppositve phase correlation, so sine has hill where square has valley, the result will be a square wave with cancallation on its fundamental fequency
So your not bandpassing the eq on the mid section? Then it is doubling with the high end? Obviously you can adjust levels, just wondering why no low pass on mid. Thanks
This was in not "a must" so it really depends on the layers themselves. So I suggest trying both and deciding which one sounds better.
In this specific case, the top layer is 2 octave above the body layer so it is already kind of seperated harmonically. And I liked the sound of them together.
@@Alice-Efe Thank you
Excellent and quick way to mix your bass! Do you start with a single bass line that you divide into three tracks?
Nowadays I would start with the body, a bass that I really like the sound of it.
And then depending on the sound, I would either seperate to sub (often), or just keep it one layer if everything is working.
she fills my mind with ideas, thank you🙏
You mean He
@@akira20ish I didn't notice an Adam's apple🤔
why never align the phase?
Explained in another comment here 😊
„works with every genre…“ Cries in Uptempo Hardcore 😭😂 (Sad Zaag Noises in background)
there we boost only all the mids and highs like a seadog barking... they dont need any low end because theres no kickdrum in the first place :')
dude your beat sounds exactly like the reference track lol. my problem is always that it's hard to find a reference track. nice tips though!
2:36 When U say "We're adjusting the SUB LEVEL$ of the KICK" Do u mean u do a sub/mid/high band split for the kick the same way as the bass?
All the splitting happens at the low end group including kick 😊
ALICE WHY ARE YOU MOGGING ME IN THE THUMBNAIL
Now check your phase and look at all the volume dips those zero latency filters gave you when you sum it all back together. Much better to use natural/linear phase.
Do you mean the ableton stock plugins? Or the Fabfilter settings?
This is not correct.
The mid bass has random phase which means that it will start at a random phase and regardless of you use linear phase filter or zero latency filter, results will be same. Becuase each hit = random starting point = random phase.
Then you can ask, why do you use random phase on the mid bass? Glad you asked!
Fixed phase oscillator means removing phase randomness from the sound. Which lead to very stale sound. Genres like melodic techno thrives when the bass really feels warm, analog and when it evolves. And because we removed most of the sub frequencies from the mid bass (below 80 HZ) the sub area will be actualy relatively stable. A 10% volume change in sub bass can sound pretty nice most of the time.
On top of that, linear filter comes with their own issues. Most noticable ones are latency and pre-ringing. I hate plugins that ads tons of latency.
Yet there is one method that is superior to both linear filters or high passing method; and it is called "waveform editing". And you won't even need to use an equalizer to seperate the sub and the bass. Briefly, you can edit the waveform and remove the fundamental frequency (or even second or third harmonic if you need to) and have an exteremely clean seperation between different layers of bass.
Why not explain that in this video? Because it is really overkill for most of the basses most of the time.
But, I have a detailed explanation and example of that in this video if you are interested in waveform editing and how it can work: th-cam.com/video/M4UfZ8YEZ7w/w-d-xo.html
@@Alice-Efe This IS correct, and you can easily verify with PHA-979 or whatever metering tool you use. But what you’re saying is you’re introducing phase cancelling at random on purpose? In that case why not just use a humanize random velocity function set to a percentage so that ALL your basses hit uniformly random and you'll maintain proper phase correlation? Also the filters will have to change to be program dependent unless you’re just hitting a single note.
@@PaulEubanks Random starting position of the oscillator means subtle changes in timbre, not volume. It results in random phase cancellation but that's a side effect. What we want is the timbre changes which feels great and velocity wont do that
@Alice-Efe Does your above explanation apply to this particular bass? Well phasing be an issue in another bass (say, a DI bass guitar)?
"Take your low-end from this to this" and hi-hats appear. 🤪
Sorry for that. Forgot to re-record the final results without hats 🙈
@@Alice-Efei knew someone was going to make that comment - it's minor! , great helpful tips as always
💗💗💗
But how Mandragora only has one channel for bass. I am watching him in Twich producing his tracks and it is always one channel. How how how....
kickstart 2
Seni cok başarılı buluyoruk ama Türkçe içerik yapsan ne guzel olurdu veya ikinci bir kanal harika olur
👍👍🎶🎶🙌🙌👏👏👏👏👏👏
You are giving away all the secrets, ssssh, or everyone will sound the same.
at least the bass won't be muddy.
Everyone has already made exactly this same video. Everyone has done it. Do we really need this video? Searching for "mixing perfect low end" gives a hysterical number of results, and if you watch some of those videos, everyone is saying exactly the same thing, which is what's being said here.
I also have an ideological objection to these techniques; they lock producers into familiar rules which stifle expression and creativity. The eq advice given here only works well if the bass notes never stray outside a very narrow range. The sidechaining advice requires kicks to only play four-on-the-floor. If you follow this advice, you subscribe to these rules, and you have limited your expression. You will reproduce music that has already been produced countless times, same as this video is a reproduction of countless other videos. I think the less rules we lock ourselves into, the more music prospers.
This exact video is actually requested by community by community poll; th-cam.com/users/postUgkxN85BOkyPhxjPvCyFLhLro41GeRzXW0Sr?si=2DGcZVuxxPMpmepX
So my or your personal preference don't matter if a lot of people believes they need a video like this.
Regarding the rules, I would say it is important to understand how things work first and then break it afterwards.
Similarly, in the video, I actually suggested that on the mid range, you shouldn't bound too much by levels or how reference is. Just understand how it works but more import thing is how you like to have it. Similarly on top range as well.
My personal opinion (which is subjective) is that a health combination of rules and breaking rules often leads to really cool stuff.
@@Alice-Efe And who determined the options for the poll? Did they bother to see if the subject is already sufficiently well covered?
@@gershommaes902 Just let it go...
Cool story about hating rules. Must be why your music sounds like a tone-deaf tornado.
These aren’t creative rules, they’re technical guidelines that can be applied to many genres. And in music production, the technical side is often just as important as the creative side. And just like the creative side, it builds on decades of knowledge and experience from thousands of people. You can’t really ignore it and expect to still make competitive music.
🤣
your a very good looking trans person alice
i bet the perfect pick up line to anyone that produces is, "i'd let you mix meeeeeee"
What’s up bro?
Hi Alice, I've been watching your videos for years, your fantastic tips and tricks. I'm not in the habit of writing people comments but I wanted to send you my new cheerful song and video too, just for fun. I don't know if I can put a link here, but I'll try. I wish you a wonderful and magnificent new year!!! th-cam.com/video/LHMcLzT8Osg/w-d-xo.html