I travelled from the City station to Melton Constable, then on to East Rudham in either 1944 or 45. Hard to recall details, but I do remember the second train pulling in at MC, then the horse and trap that collected us at ER. Thanks for the memory.
Look at all the traffic problems in Norwich and Norfolk nowadays which would be alleviated if these lines and stations had survived. And now we have a shortage of hauliers, when we had loads of dedicated goods lines and depots (goods train - 1 driver for 50-100 wagons). Dr Beeching gets all the blame, but he only wrote the report. It was successive governments (of both parties) from the 50’s - 80’s who actually did the cuts to the network. It was all built by private enterprise, lasted for 100 years, then the government ripped it all out. The listed building station at the end - it’s common for owners of such buildings to let them decay deliberately, so the building gradually collapses and then they don’t need permission to demolish (which would normally be refused).
Unfortunately those local goods depots were a great drain on finances. They had to be manned but didn't always get freight coming in or going out on the local trip services which were also expensive to operate. When BR looked at the costs of their Speedlink services they found out that about 70% of the operating costs were from the local trip workings, marshalling and remarshalling. They also worked out that if they could cut costs by 40% then only half of the services would make enough to cover their costs. In addition to that to cover costs each supplier would need to send out 10 wagon load a day over a distance of 500 miles. You might have 1 crew to shift 50 to 100 wagons, local trip workings would never be that long. Before we had Beeching there was the Unremunitive Services Committee was looking at the removal of services that didn't cover enough of their costs. From what I have read, and there's not much out there on the internet, the lines they looked at axing and didn't get to close were the same ones that Beeching wanted to take an axe to. They were also lines that the LNER, for example as we're in Norwich, was looking at as uneconomical.
The issue was all the war damage, both bombs and wear&tear that never got enough investment to fix in the post-war economy. The railway had worked itself into an early grave saving the nation and was just left to struggle on after that. They never got the recognition they deserved for the work they put in.
@@truckerallikatuk the war damage didn't help, but the damage started in 1918 and not 1945. The all but forgotten Salter Repott of 1933 covers in some detail the disparity between the charges the railways levied for freight compared to those levied by the road haulage industry in the 1920s/1930s. The canals were the first to be killed off by the road haulage industry and then came the rural railways. In spite of all the legal restrictions on road transport they could easily undercut the railways, as they they had access to supplies of war-surplus truck and lorries, and all those men trained to drive by the army after both wars.
very interesting video 👍so sad so many stations around Norwich closed 😥this what happens when there's not much passenger service i dread to think how many stations have closed in England Scotland Wales and Ireland
I enjoy this Lost Stations series. Excellent job and superbly narrated. As you say, Trowse station is too close the current Norwich Thorpe yet I hope that one day, someday, it could be spruced up and house a museum depicting the stations and lines around Norwich.
Isn't there a proposal for thousands of homes next to it? Given a walk to the nearest station is 25 minutes and a bus about 15 mins that would suggest scope for reopening. Plenty of cities haver stations closer together than that. EDIT: Yep just googled it and more than 3k homes planned and 4k jobs. That seems enough for a serious look at reopening.
I was born in Overstrand Norfolk which had its own station of the Norfolk and Suffolk Joint Railway until its closure in 1953, The line went from North Walsham to Cromer. Please do a video on this line as much of the route of the line and bridges remain although no tracks are left and much is overgrown. Thank you.
hooray , hooray , been waiting for this . in the interim , took my buddy on his first railway walk up to haigh junction , after fighting our way through the set of apocalypse now , he found a full ridge tile from the box and pulled a lnwr track chair from a tree , even stamped 1915 , anyway as ever , thanks for doing this for all of us , god bless from tracys husband , still in wigan . still very much part of lancashire
It's not an area with which I am familiar, but still I found this very interesting to watch, thank you. I thought it was very well scripted, produced and presented, and very professional.
Another great video :) and a great reason to go exploring these spots. I drive past the Norwich Vic site almost every day and never knew it once was a station !
I think Trowse was still used after its official closure for "football specials". This is because it is located nearer Norwich City's Carrow Road ground, and it kept football fans away from Thorpe.
Really good video thank you. Regarding the line from Norwich City Station to Melton Constable, I have an old timetable from Summer 1958 and on Mondays to Fridays there were nine trains in each direction and a journey time of 40 minutes for the 21.25 mile route.
I can remember - when I was *very* small - taking the train from Hemsby to Beach Station. It ran in part along the sand dunes approaching Yarmouth. I loved it. Of course, I used Southtown Station as well.
My mum used to play in the old Hellesdon station as a child in the 70s. The building was eventually torn down when it became a favoured haunt for drug dealers. Allegedly. I don't know if there's any truth to that, or if it was just hearsay. My mum is adamant though that some fright trains continued to run along some of the line up until the 80s. My Dad is of the same opinion, even though he grew up near Attleborough. With both sides of my family working on the railways (my grandad & uncle were both signalers - my mum's Dad & brother. My grandmother - my Dad's mother - was a level crossing controller) I know they're not both mistaken, but I can't help wonder if they're mistaken on the location. I wonder if its actually the old line & sidings at the remains of the old City Station. My Dad seems to think the trains were transporting concrete or building materials of a similar nature. Both grandparents are no longer here to ask.
The Themelthorpe curve linked the former Great Eastern Branch from Wroxham (part of which is now the Bure Valley narrow gauge railway) to a short length of the MGN heading back towards Norwich, but only as far as Lenwade (north of Drayton).
On a separate note, could you cover Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft's lost stations (if you haven't already, as GYM used to have 3, and I believe LWT had 2?)
Whilst Victoria was the best sited of the terminals it had the simply unfortunate circumstance of not serving the branchlines. Since Trowse is on the mainline, and so close to the main station, re-opening seems very unlikely, especially considering the Cambridge branch trains are the only ones that would probably stop there.
Another brilliant video. Full of fun facts, historical data, old and new photographs, all of which come to gether to make a superb presentation. Should any or some of these stations have been saved? Absolutley, bearing in mind the need for moving people around without blocking up Norwich's roads.
We used to take a coal train from Whitemoor to Norwich Victoria, and have to reverse the train into the coalyard there, guards brakevan leading , usually with a Tinsley based Class 37, the coal came from collieries at Ollerton, Thoresby or Mansfield, I revisited the station site in 1977 and in 2018
I do like your stories on the lost railways. This video was again a fine example of them. Very sad to see how we treat our industrial heritage. Kind regards 🚂
Another great video, thank you. I found the story of Trowse particularly fascinating, with it's "on-again/off-again" history. Such a pity that such a fine building can be left to slowly disintegrate.
We still have some of these foot bridges here in São Paulo, Brazil. They were brought here in the XIX century when the British built the São Paulo Railway Company.
And the proposed residential development of the Deal Grounds where Colman used to store timer and fabricate its product despatch boxes.In County Council employees are entitled to car parking at County Hall and this employment right will not be easily bought out. Since County Hall was first occupied 2 car park extensions have been made in spite of the County Police HQ moving to Wymondham.
Hang on babe, another Rediscovering Lost Railways video just dropped. Jokes aside, great video. I've heard that Norfolk is maybe the most barren area of the UK for remaining railways. Either way, it's interesting to see these few lost stations of Norwich, especially since it had 3 termini! I also wonder if Trowse's 1980s opening is the shortest use of a station in the UK, i.e. has any other station been open for fewer days so randomly? Can't wait for the next video!
Great video. As a Norwich resident, I remember the reopening of Trowse station in 1986. As part of the electrification they also completely replaced the river bridge on a slightly different alignment. Controversially, the original slew bridge was double-tracked while its swing-bridge replacement was single track. There were plans around 8 years ago for replacing the single-track bridge (which keeps breaking down) with a double-track version "by 2024" - I think that date might have been a bit optimistic!
I always await your latest video which are always brilliant thank you. It always amazes me how many beautiful station buildings were either demolished or simply left to decay after the lines closed rather than becoming homes. You see examples of this all over the country and its hard to understand. I think the answer is that in the days of closure the railways were seen as old and outdated and people wanted to live in the new estate type houses with mod cons, not what they saw as dirty old railway buildings, familiarity breeds contempt?. What fine homes many have made, if only people had the foresight.
As always very informative and interesting video. It is difficult to imagine any of these lines opening up now as the dependency on cars is so common It begs the question though if these lines had not closed, would car use be so dominant in our transport requirements?
We are lucky to still have Norwich Thorpe Station. Back in the 50's and 60's, the modernisers would have got rid of railways entirely if they could. I remember the zeal with which the lorry and the car where worshipped back then. People wanted cars, business wanted lorries. Railways where considered redundant technology by many economists and politicians of the day who saw them as an😅 expensive burden, inimical to progress. Thankfully they didn't have it all their own way....but almost!
Thanks for the great video, I've been a resident of Norwich since 87/88 - 2010 and 2022 - present day and in the last year I've learned so much about Norwich's railways! I only thought Norwich had 2 stations until I discovered Victoria, which is on the direction of the former Brazen Gate, and walking down the Lakenham Way you can see all the rail bridges in close detail from that period. Also, the station close to Whitlingham was the scene of the Thorpe Railway Disaster, which has a commemorative plaque near the sight down Girlings Lane. Also, on Marriotts Way, a short walk after the station is a bridge that saw a disaster as well! Plenty of interesting facts and a lot of other hidden stations as you continue down the Way.
In my opinion. None of these stations should have never been closed. We have a dire need in Britain now have a decent railway system and I think a decent railway line between Norwich and King's Lynn would be a great idea and also opening up the branch line for Dereham to Fakenham would also be a great idea. Since all these lines were initially closed the population and housing a swelled inexorably. The populations of Dereham. Fakenham and Norwich have almost doubled. Along with the planned thousands of houses on both the Eastern fringes and western fringes of Norwich. Also for thousands of home plan for Dereham Fakenham and Attleborough. More Station should be planned and the railway operator could make these upgrades pay. I think we should Electrify older branch lines out of Norwich. From Norwich to Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft. Norwich to Cromer and Sheringham and also Norwich to Cambridge. With new high speed trains travelling over 100 miles an hour. This would open up the Norfolk region totally two business and passengers alike. I think we should open up original Marriotts way line as well. As I think it's very needed. With stations at Hellesdon. Drayton. Taverham. Lenwade and so on write the way to Kings Lynn. I think it's shocking that there's no direct railway connection between Norwich and Kings Lynn. This in my opinion is a must for the region. Thank you for uploading this video. Could you please do a video on the Long Melford to Bury St Edmunds branch line and also the Bury St Edmunds to Thetford railway line? Pure.
Wonderful, thank you. The re-development of Norwich on land given up by the railways is pretty depressing. A fine historic city with brutalist buildings all over (and dull, partly empty shopping centres).
Correct. Whoever was responsible for knocking down the fine Bank building on Magdelan St, and replacing it with the montrous Anglia Square, Odeon, and Sovereign House, should be put on trial.
Reminded me of Lost Rail Services. i.e. There use to be "Asparagus Specials" to London from East Anglia/Norwich and from the Evesham area of the Cotswolds. I know the Cotswolds still grows Asparagus, does E Anglia? Fish Trains down to London from East Anglia and even North East Scotland. The Summer Seaside Specials. The Slip Coaches on the Trains down to Cornwall. The Car Train from Paddington to Europe. Now an NCP or other Car Park.
Thanks, a fine film. The Whitlingham footbridge remains and is maintained because there's a public right of way going over it. As such, it will probably exist forever in some form.
My brother's and I used to stand on the whitlingham bridge and wait for the old steam trains to come through underneath. I can still smell them. Our great uncle was a train driver. His black leather hat, thick wooden black trousers, striped collarless shirt and red and white handkerchief round his neck. we'd wave to him if he was on route. It's a shame Trowse station building couldn't be reconditioned/refurbished back to a beautiful period house.
It's so sad that so many railway buildings of architectural merit have been destroyed to make way for purely utilitarian structures that do nothing to improve the environment, and which, in some cases, just look grim.
Victoria Station the round booking office was once a circus. I manged a ride from the Crown Point area in the cab of an 03 up to Victoria - one way only! This was the end of a late night trip in the brake van of the Lowestoft to Whitemoor freight. We returned on the coal train. Now as for Whitlingham Jc station. I was told that it was making a profit and the accountants nevertheless wanted to shut it. Racking their destructive brains they calculated the cost of each train starting and stopping. To their - no doubt - positive delight it now made a loss. The rest his history and like the M&GN out of Norwich needed now to ease car pollution.
Given the Government’s stated aim of curtailing the private ownership of cars then, in my view, they have to reverse all the Beaching cuts before we, the general public, would accept such an aim. Remember when ( in Tim Dunn’s words ) one could travel from anywhere to anywhere else?
Many of the closures cannot be reversed because the lines have been built on. Cambridge-Oxford is a good example. The track bed still exists west of Milton Keynes so that is being re-built. Bedford to Cambridge is another matter: Wherever they propose to put the line, the locals oppose it.
@@TheRip72 That doesn’t appear to be a problem for the HS2 vanity project. They just bulldozer their way through everything including areas of outstanding beauty and housing developments. All for something that will cost every one of us £2k+ and rising and I’ll never be able to ride it because I won’t live that long. I love railways but I am so opposed to HS2 because it is not needed.
@@johnsamson-snell9558 Is it a vanity project? I live in Milton Keynes & moved here because it had good transport links. I use the WCML a lot & trust me, it is rammed. There may be 4 tracks all the way to MK from London (6 to Watford) but these carry local, semi-fast, freight & fast InterCity services. The pandemic has eased things a little but the line was getting increasingly busy & it looks like it will surpass pre-pandemic levels. On my commute home (from London), my rain takes the fast lines to Leighton Buzzard, passing 3 freights & 2 slower passenger trains. Once stopped in LB, 2 Pendolinos whizz past. The line is busy. So what options are there? More lines? This would cause massive, expensive disruption & there is not room for an extra 2 lines everywhere. Maybe run longer trains? Platforms were extended c2007 to take 12 coach trains. Longer would mean extending places like Euston & Birmingham (which is very much hemmed in by the city). Slow & semi-fast trains serve the towns & villages they run through, so these must stay on the existing routes. Freights can operate with these because they have a slower top speed. This leaves longer distance high-speed services. If you can take them away, then this leaves the other services with a little more room to operate. HS2 will do exactly this. Phase 1 may not be completed for another 10 years but how much more congested will things be by then. Most of us have children (I don't but many do) Surely we need to provide for them?
That last one desperately screams out for preservation and renovation. Perhaps Sir Richard Branson could be persuaded. But he'll have to buy out the tractor distributor as well. No worries for him, at least.
Interesting that Victoria was closed so early. It doesn't make sense that the trains from London terminate at a separate station from the regional trains so that you can't transfer easily. Trowse could actually function as a pass-through station so that trains could run straight through Norwich from east to west without reversing and terminating trains from London could call so that passengers can transfer.
I loved the picture at about 4:47 - I can just hear the station announcer saying "The yacht now arriving on platform one ......." !! 😎😱 PS : I guess I should have said "wherry" instead of "yacht".
If you want to be pedantic it was neither a wherry or a yacht. It was a dinghy. The picture is quite exceptional as we tend to be confronted with rowing boats in Magdalene Street as the main evidence of the flood.
Great content as always! Really nice seeing someone cover the history of my former local stations. Also kind of ironic in a way that 3 of the stations featured, when they were built, weren't considered part of Norwich. But thanks to the modern sprawl of the city they are! As a local resident, to me it would make perfect sense if Marriots Way was at least converted into a light rail system. Traffic around that part of the city is always a nightmare...
Great review! Whilst the former M&GN line from Norwich City was much underused in its day, it's closure and that of the line from Wymondham to East Dereham to Kings Lynn left a very large public transport gap in Norfolk that persists to present times.
Oh and there were plans to extend the line from Norwich City further into the heart of the city, believe it would've terminated partway way between the castle and Thorpe station. If built, the line would've cut through the grounds of Norwich Cathedral which prompted much opposition to the plans and in the end parliament ruled against it.
Fascinating survey of what once was a hub of railway activity. I enjoyed the way you contrasted 'now' and 'then' with the use of archive footage and an elegant , informative narrative.
I don't know if I mentioned this before but there's an abandoned station not far from me which is still in pretty good condition for it's age and it can still be seen from the line once served it ( now a shared cycle route ) and you can still see a station building from the main road and if you look extra carefully you can just about see and work out the opposite platform with some ballast from all them years ago ( definitely worth walking or cycling if anyone gets a chance )
@@RediscoveringLostRailways It would be something pretty cool for the channel and plus the old waiting room is now a cafe which was restored back in 2010 and you can tell if it's a waiting room as it says "Waiting room on the door"
The Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway (terminus Norwich City) was an entire network which would keep this channel in business all by itself for two years. In peak Victoriana it had made out of the obscure medieval hamlet of Melton Constable an industrial metropolis of workshops and carriage sidings, now all gone, and Melton Constable has resumed its medieval slumber. Sic transit gloria mundi.
I have strongly considered making a video devoted to covering the whole of the M&GN... it is tempting to be sure...massive undertaking also...but I have heard about Melton Constable - like a Crewe of Norfolk - what an extraordinary story!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways It was indeed, I believe they even built engines there. Now it hasn't even got a railway station, thus my flight into Latin. I can only warmly encourage at least parts of the truly "massive undertaking", maybe the line from Melton Constable (erstwhile centre of the universe) to Melton Mowbray, the next big station a mere 5 km after Saxby on the M&GN, my place of birth, and producer of the world's most succulent pork pies. Now if that's not worth a few bramble entanglings ...
This a very enjoyable and fascinating video, thank you. I do like to see the old photos of the stations in their heyday, but it feels so sad to see how these lovely buildings have been replaced by ugly monstrosities. What a poor decision it was to get rid of so many lines seeing as the powers that be now want us to use public transport rather than drive.
My partner comes from Cromer and like me is a history/train fanatic. This video is something we have been waiting for. It’s truly fabulous. Very enjoyable
I stand to be corrected, but I think it actually stands in the Norwich superb of Thorpe, being the other side of the river. And yes always Thorpe Station for me too.
Another great video! Enjoyed this one as I have a big soft spot for Norwich. My wife grew up in Hellesdon and had no idea it used to have a station. Must travel over there for an explore.
I city once known for having a church for every sunday of the year, and a pub for every day. No-longer true, but it's packed with fine old buildings in odd spots. I love Norwich, and grew up near there. But it was a deathly dull place to live as a youngster. Maybe it's improved now.
Norwich railway station is my favourite. But yes the city centre is lovely. Also with the Class 379 Electrostars which are parked up and unused. I do think that they are likely to be cascaded to Great Northern.
Very well done. As the last station building is listed it would be possible for the local authority to serve a repair order of some form upon the owners (if not them).
Do please subscribe, share and follow - you might consider supporting my channel even more: www.buymeacoffee.com/rediscovering
I travelled from the City station to Melton Constable, then on to East Rudham in either 1944 or 45. Hard to recall details, but I do remember the second train pulling in at MC, then the horse and trap that collected us at ER. Thanks for the memory.
Thank you for your memories - fascinating - they speak of another world!
Wow, the sound of slides switching took me back.
It's a lovely noise isn't it!
Look at all the traffic problems in Norwich and Norfolk nowadays which would be alleviated if these lines and stations had survived.
And now we have a shortage of hauliers, when we had loads of dedicated goods lines and depots (goods train - 1 driver for 50-100 wagons).
Dr Beeching gets all the blame, but he only wrote the report. It was successive governments (of both parties) from the 50’s - 80’s who actually did the cuts to the network. It was all built by private enterprise, lasted for 100 years, then the government ripped it all out.
The listed building station at the end - it’s common for owners of such buildings to let them decay deliberately, so the building gradually collapses and then they don’t need permission to demolish (which would normally be refused).
Unfortunately those local goods depots were a great drain on finances. They had to be manned but didn't always get freight coming in or going out on the local trip services which were also expensive to operate. When BR looked at the costs of their Speedlink services they found out that about 70% of the operating costs were from the local trip workings, marshalling and remarshalling. They also worked out that if they could cut costs by 40% then only half of the services would make enough to cover their costs. In addition to that to cover costs each supplier would need to send out 10 wagon load a day over a distance of 500 miles. You might have 1 crew to shift 50 to 100 wagons, local trip workings would never be that long.
Before we had Beeching there was the Unremunitive Services Committee was looking at the removal of services that didn't cover enough of their costs. From what I have read, and there's not much out there on the internet, the lines they looked at axing and didn't get to close were the same ones that Beeching wanted to take an axe to. They were also lines that the LNER, for example as we're in Norwich, was looking at as uneconomical.
Many thanks for you comment and thoughts
Fascinating information as always - thanks for your remarks!
The issue was all the war damage, both bombs and wear&tear that never got enough investment to fix in the post-war economy. The railway had worked itself into an early grave saving the nation and was just left to struggle on after that. They never got the recognition they deserved for the work they put in.
@@truckerallikatuk the war damage didn't help, but the damage started in 1918 and not 1945. The all but forgotten Salter Repott of 1933 covers in some detail the disparity between the charges the railways levied for freight compared to those levied by the road haulage industry in the 1920s/1930s. The canals were the first to be killed off by the road haulage industry and then came the rural railways. In spite of all the legal restrictions on road transport they could easily undercut the railways, as they they had access to supplies of war-surplus truck and lorries, and all those men trained to drive by the army after both wars.
I always enjoy the education your films provide. Thank you.
So pleased you enjoy them - thank you!
very interesting video 👍so sad so many stations around Norwich closed 😥this what happens when there's not much passenger service i dread to think how many stations have closed in England Scotland Wales and Ireland
Thank you very much indeed - and agreed!
I enjoy this Lost Stations series. Excellent job and superbly narrated. As you say, Trowse station is too close the current Norwich Thorpe yet I hope that one day, someday, it could be spruced up and house a museum depicting the stations and lines around Norwich.
Couldn't agree more - what a fine use of that delightful old building it would be!
Isn't there a proposal for thousands of homes next to it? Given a walk to the nearest station is 25 minutes and a bus about 15 mins that would suggest scope for reopening. Plenty of cities haver stations closer together than that. EDIT: Yep just googled it and more than 3k homes planned and 4k jobs. That seems enough for a serious look at reopening.
I was born in Overstrand Norfolk which had its own station of the Norfolk and Suffolk Joint Railway until its closure in 1953, The line went from North Walsham to Cromer. Please do a video on this line as much of the route of the line and bridges remain although no tracks are left and much is overgrown. Thank you.
Many thanks for the tip!
hooray , hooray , been waiting for this . in the interim , took my buddy on his first railway walk up to haigh junction , after fighting our way through the set of apocalypse now , he found a full ridge tile from the box and pulled a lnwr track chair from a tree , even stamped 1915 , anyway as ever , thanks for doing this for all of us , god bless from tracys husband , still in wigan . still very much part of lancashire
Sounds like to some great finds! Glad you enjoyed the fillm!
Fascinating. Thank you
My pleasure!
Absolutely love your videos, thank you
Very kind of you to say so, thank you
It's not an area with which I am familiar, but still I found this very interesting to watch, thank you. I thought it was very well scripted, produced and presented, and very professional.
Really very kind of you to say so, thank you 😀
Very entertaining, thank you.
My pleasure, thank you!
Fascinating journey around the former stations of Norwich - thank you! Informative...as always!
My pleasure, thank you
love these
Most kind, thank you!
a very interesting Video... Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Brilliant video.
Very kind of you to say so
Another great video :) and a great reason to go exploring these spots. I drive past the Norwich Vic site almost every day and never knew it once was a station !
Very kind of you to say so and I'm glad it offered a surprise of sorts!
I think Trowse was still used after its official closure for "football specials". This is because it is located nearer Norwich City's Carrow Road ground, and it kept football fans away from Thorpe.
Thank you indeed for your comment - yes, given its proximity, that would make good sense!
Glad you mentioned that. I was beginning to wonder if my memory was playing tricks. Yes, definitely used for football specials.
Really good video thank you. Regarding the line from Norwich City Station to Melton Constable, I have an old timetable from Summer 1958 and on Mondays to Fridays there were nine trains in each direction and a journey time of 40 minutes for the 21.25 mile route.
What a great journey it must've been behind some fine old engine!
Nice video.
Many thanks indeed!
Can you maybe do lost station of great yarmouth? I would love that
I can certainly look into it - thanks for the tip!
I can remember - when I was *very* small - taking the train from Hemsby to Beach Station. It ran in part along the sand dunes approaching Yarmouth. I loved it. Of course, I used Southtown Station as well.
My mum used to play in the old Hellesdon station as a child in the 70s. The building was eventually torn down when it became a favoured haunt for drug dealers. Allegedly. I don't know if there's any truth to that, or if it was just hearsay. My mum is adamant though that some fright trains continued to run along some of the line up until the 80s. My Dad is of the same opinion, even though he grew up near Attleborough. With both sides of my family working on the railways (my grandad & uncle were both signalers - my mum's Dad & brother. My grandmother - my Dad's mother - was a level crossing controller) I know they're not both mistaken, but I can't help wonder if they're mistaken on the location. I wonder if its actually the old line & sidings at the remains of the old City Station. My Dad seems to think the trains were transporting concrete or building materials of a similar nature. Both grandparents are no longer here to ask.
Many thanks for your thoughts and memories!
The Themelthorpe curve linked the former Great Eastern Branch from Wroxham (part of which is now the Bure Valley narrow gauge railway) to a short length of the MGN heading back towards Norwich, but only as far as Lenwade (north of Drayton).
With all the new 745s and 755s running about, it would be opportune.
Fabulous trains!
On a separate note, could you cover Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft's lost stations (if you haven't already, as GYM used to have 3, and I believe LWT had 2?)
I will certainly look into it. Thanks for the tip!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways awesome! Thank you so much ☺️
Whilst Victoria was the best sited of the terminals it had the simply unfortunate circumstance of not serving the branchlines. Since Trowse is on the mainline, and so close to the main station, re-opening seems very unlikely, especially considering the Cambridge branch trains are the only ones that would probably stop there.
Yes agreed. Many thanks for your comment.
None of the stations should ever have been closed
Thanks for your thoughts and comment 👍
@@RediscoveringLostRailways would love to see a video on County Durham.
Another brilliant video. Full of fun facts, historical data, old and new photographs, all of which come to gether to make a superb presentation.
Should any or some of these stations have been saved? Absolutley, bearing in mind the need for moving people around without blocking up Norwich's roads.
Many thanks for you comment and thoughts - very much appreciated!
We used to take a coal train from Whitemoor to Norwich Victoria, and have to reverse the train into the coalyard there, guards brakevan leading , usually with a Tinsley based Class 37, the coal came from collieries at Ollerton, Thoresby or Mansfield, I revisited the station site in 1977 and in 2018
I do like your stories on the lost railways. This video was again a fine example of them. Very sad to see how we treat our industrial heritage.
Kind regards 🚂
Glad you enjoyed it and thank you for your very kind remarks about my films!
Another great video, thank you. I found the story of Trowse particularly fascinating, with it's "on-again/off-again" history. Such a pity that such a fine building can be left to slowly disintegrate.
Yes agreed. Thanks for your comment.
We still have some of these foot bridges here in São Paulo, Brazil. They were brought here in the XIX century when the British built the São Paulo Railway Company.
Wonderful to learn they are still standing!
Trowse would serve County Hall, home of Norfolk County Council, very nicely.
Yes, very convenient!
And the proposed residential development of the Deal Grounds where Colman used to store timer and fabricate its product despatch boxes.In County Council employees are entitled to car parking at County Hall and this employment right will not be easily bought out. Since County Hall was first occupied 2 car park extensions have been made in spite of the County Police HQ moving to Wymondham.
Hang on babe, another Rediscovering Lost Railways video just dropped.
Jokes aside, great video. I've heard that Norfolk is maybe the most barren area of the UK for remaining railways. Either way, it's interesting to see these few lost stations of Norwich, especially since it had 3 termini! I also wonder if Trowse's 1980s opening is the shortest use of a station in the UK, i.e. has any other station been open for fewer days so randomly?
Can't wait for the next video!
Hahaha! Really glad you enjoyed this one - and yes, that's a fascinating thought RE: Trowse's brief reopening!
Great video. As a Norwich resident, I remember the reopening of Trowse station in 1986. As part of the electrification they also completely replaced the river bridge on a slightly different alignment. Controversially, the original slew bridge was double-tracked while its swing-bridge replacement was single track. There were plans around 8 years ago for replacing the single-track bridge (which keeps breaking down) with a double-track version "by 2024" - I think that date might have been a bit optimistic!
Many thanks for the info - yes I read that this single track presents a bottleneck - bizarre that the line was not doubled there!
I always await your latest video which are always brilliant thank you.
It always amazes me how many beautiful station buildings were either demolished or simply left to decay after the lines closed rather than becoming homes. You see examples of this all over the country and its hard to understand.
I think the answer is that in the days of closure the railways were seen as old and outdated and people wanted to live in the new estate type houses with mod cons, not what they saw as dirty old railway buildings, familiarity breeds contempt?. What fine homes many have made, if only people had the foresight.
Many thanks for you kind remarks, thoughts and comments - I'd love to live in a fine old station house!
Fascinating thanks. I enjoyed cycling the Marriotts Way a few years ago now.
My pleasure! And it's a fine ride!
What a tragedy Trowse is! Another well-narrated film - currently "binge viewing" them all and daydreaming... Thank you!
Yes agreed! Hope the binge has left you wanting more!
As always very informative and interesting video. It is difficult to imagine any of these lines opening up now as the dependency on cars is so common
It begs the question though if these lines had not closed, would car use be so dominant in our transport requirements?
Many thanks for you comment and thoughts - very much appreciated!
We are lucky to still have Norwich Thorpe Station.
Back in the 50's and 60's, the modernisers would have got rid of railways entirely if they could.
I remember the zeal with which the lorry and the car where worshipped back then. People wanted cars, business wanted lorries.
Railways where considered redundant technology by many economists and politicians of the day who saw them as an😅 expensive burden, inimical to progress. Thankfully they didn't have it all their own way....but almost!
Many thanks for your thoughts and comment 👍
Hi Very enjoyable, I left my heart in Norwich years ago(over 65years ) should not have been shut at All, All the best Brian 😃
Very kind of you to say so - and I'm glad it stirred some good memories!
This was an interesting watch - thanks for all of the effort that you put into it - it is appreciated :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for the great video, I've been a resident of Norwich since 87/88 - 2010 and 2022 - present day and in the last year I've learned so much about Norwich's railways! I only thought Norwich had 2 stations until I discovered Victoria, which is on the direction of the former Brazen Gate, and walking down the Lakenham Way you can see all the rail bridges in close detail from that period. Also, the station close to Whitlingham was the scene of the Thorpe Railway Disaster, which has a commemorative plaque near the sight down Girlings Lane. Also, on Marriotts Way, a short walk after the station is a bridge that saw a disaster as well! Plenty of interesting facts and a lot of other hidden stations as you continue down the Way.
Glad you enjoyed the film...I should have approached you for all the historical knowledge!
Is the sainsburys on the site of an old railway yard or station?
The yard, I believe
In my opinion. None of these stations should have never been closed. We have a dire need in Britain now have a decent railway system and I think a decent railway line between Norwich and King's Lynn would be a great idea and also opening up the branch line for Dereham to Fakenham would also be a great idea. Since all these lines were initially closed the population and housing a swelled inexorably. The populations of Dereham. Fakenham and Norwich have almost doubled. Along with the planned thousands of houses on both the Eastern fringes and western fringes of Norwich. Also for thousands of home plan for Dereham Fakenham and Attleborough. More Station should be planned and the railway operator could make these upgrades pay. I think we should Electrify older branch lines out of Norwich. From Norwich to Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft. Norwich to Cromer and Sheringham and also Norwich to Cambridge. With new high speed trains travelling over 100 miles an hour. This would open up the Norfolk region totally two business and passengers alike. I think we should open up original Marriotts way line as well. As I think it's very needed. With stations at Hellesdon. Drayton. Taverham. Lenwade and so on write the way to Kings Lynn. I think it's shocking that there's no direct railway connection between Norwich and Kings Lynn. This in my opinion is a must for the region.
Thank you for uploading this video.
Could you please do a video on the Long Melford to Bury St Edmunds branch line and also the Bury St Edmunds to Thetford railway line?
Pure.
I'll certainly look into it. Thank you for your thoughts and comment - Norfolk surely suffered more railway cuts than most back in the day!
Wonderful, thank you. The re-development of Norwich on land given up by the railways is pretty depressing. A fine historic city with brutalist buildings all over (and dull, partly empty shopping centres).
Most kind. Yes, so many places seem to have suffered from such grim brutalism!
Shopping centres are the same countrywide nowadays.
Correct. Whoever was responsible for knocking down the fine Bank building on Magdelan St, and replacing it with the montrous Anglia Square, Odeon, and Sovereign House, should be put on trial.
You have done a sterling job as usual 👏🏻
Many thanks for all your hard work.
All the best 😊🍻👍🏻
Very kind of you to say so!
As Norwich grows I bet some of these station would now be very useful..
Commuting traffic into Norwhich is a nightmare now so short sighted
You are probably right!
Is it possible many of the stations will be reopened with an urban tram-train network to match Wales, i.e., the Cardiff City Region?
Possible, but I think in this case, it is very unlikely...
Reminded me of Lost Rail Services. i.e. There use to be "Asparagus Specials" to London from East Anglia/Norwich and from the Evesham area of the Cotswolds. I know the Cotswolds still grows Asparagus, does E Anglia? Fish Trains down to London from East Anglia and even North East Scotland. The Summer Seaside Specials. The Slip Coaches on the Trains down to Cornwall. The Car Train from Paddington to Europe. Now an NCP or other Car Park.
Yes, you don't get many named services anymore - that quirk seems to have died out!
Trowse is crying out for salvation. What a beautiful tractor dealership it would make...
Yes, just so!
Thanks, a fine film. The Whitlingham footbridge remains and is maintained because there's a public right of way going over it. As such, it will probably exist forever in some form.
Thank you indeed - and good to know that footbridge has a future!
I would love to see the old branch line to March from Kings Lynn. Any plans??
Already made, see my film 'how do you reopen a lost railway?'
funny how we make old railroads into BIke/hiking trail all over Europe :) (if we must loose them, its a good alternative :))
That's true!
My brother's and I used to stand on the whitlingham bridge and wait for the old steam trains to come through underneath. I can still smell them. Our great uncle was a train driver. His black leather hat, thick wooden black trousers, striped collarless shirt and red and white handkerchief round his neck. we'd wave to him if he was on route. It's a shame Trowse station building couldn't be reconditioned/refurbished back to a beautiful period house.
Thank you for sharing your wonderful memories
It's so sad that so many railway buildings of architectural merit have been destroyed to make way for purely utilitarian structures that do nothing to improve the environment, and which, in some cases, just look grim.
Agreed. It is a sad story repeated across the land!
Victoria Station the round booking office was once a circus. I manged a ride from the Crown Point area in the cab of an 03 up to Victoria - one way only! This was the end of a late night trip in the brake van of the Lowestoft to Whitemoor freight. We returned on the coal train.
Now as for Whitlingham Jc station. I was told that it was making a profit and the accountants nevertheless wanted to shut it. Racking their destructive brains they calculated the cost of each train starting and stopping. To their - no doubt - positive delight it now made a loss. The rest his history and like the M&GN out of Norwich needed now to ease car pollution.
Many thanks for your memories, thoughts and comment!
Given the Government’s stated aim of curtailing the private ownership of cars then, in my view, they have to reverse all the Beaching cuts before we, the general public, would accept such an aim. Remember when ( in Tim Dunn’s words ) one could travel from anywhere to anywhere else?
Many of the closures cannot be reversed because the lines have been built on. Cambridge-Oxford is a good example. The track bed still exists west of Milton Keynes so that is being re-built. Bedford to Cambridge is another matter: Wherever they propose to put the line, the locals oppose it.
Many thanks for you comment and thoughts - very much appreciated!
@@TheRip72 That doesn’t appear to be a problem for the HS2 vanity project. They just bulldozer their way through everything including areas of outstanding beauty and housing developments. All for something that will cost every one of us £2k+ and rising and I’ll never be able to ride it because I won’t live that long. I love railways but I am so opposed to HS2 because it is not needed.
@@johnsamson-snell9558 Is it a vanity project? I live in Milton Keynes & moved here because it had good transport links. I use the WCML a lot & trust me, it is rammed. There may be 4 tracks all the way to MK from London (6 to Watford) but these carry local, semi-fast, freight & fast InterCity services. The pandemic has eased things a little but the line was getting increasingly busy & it looks like it will surpass pre-pandemic levels.
On my commute home (from London), my rain takes the fast lines to Leighton Buzzard, passing 3 freights & 2 slower passenger trains. Once stopped in LB, 2 Pendolinos whizz past. The line is busy.
So what options are there? More lines? This would cause massive, expensive disruption & there is not room for an extra 2 lines everywhere.
Maybe run longer trains? Platforms were extended c2007 to take 12 coach trains. Longer would mean extending places like Euston & Birmingham (which is very much hemmed in by the city).
Slow & semi-fast trains serve the towns & villages they run through, so these must stay on the existing routes.
Freights can operate with these because they have a slower top speed.
This leaves longer distance high-speed services. If you can take them away, then this leaves the other services with a little more room to operate. HS2 will do exactly this.
Phase 1 may not be completed for another 10 years but how much more congested will things be by then. Most of us have children (I don't but many do) Surely we need to provide for them?
That last one desperately screams out for preservation and renovation. Perhaps Sir Richard Branson could be persuaded. But he'll have to buy out the tractor distributor as well. No worries for him, at least.
Yes, a billionaire enthusiast would be just the ticket!
I really do love all the disused railway videos.
I'm wondering if that makes me quite sad. But I don't care🙂🚂
It puts you in good company I'd say! Really glad you enjoyed the film 😀
'the past is a foreign country, they do things differently there'....L.P. Hartley...
A very fine novel and set in Norfolk if I remember!
The M&GN was a totally unnecessary duplicated railway. But so iconic and so much missed.
Many thanks for your thoughts 🙏
Interesting that Victoria was closed so early. It doesn't make sense that the trains from London terminate at a separate station from the regional trains so that you can't transfer easily. Trowse could actually function as a pass-through station so that trains could run straight through Norwich from east to west without reversing and terminating trains from London could call so that passengers can transfer.
Many thanks for your thoughts!
Great video, would have been nice if you'd have included the A frame bridge at Drayton.
Many thanks indeed 🙏
Another in your series of "How to Make a First-Rate TH-cam Video".
You're very kind, thank you!
I loved the picture at about 4:47 - I can just hear the station announcer saying "The yacht now arriving on platform one ......." !! 😎😱
PS : I guess I should have said "wherry" instead of "yacht".
It's a great pictures isn't it! And yes, spot on about the announcer! As for matters nautical, I know next to nil!
If you want to be pedantic it was neither a wherry or a yacht. It was a dinghy. The picture is quite exceptional as we tend to be confronted with rowing boats in Magdalene Street as the main evidence of the flood.
@@tomcarr1358 thanks for the info. Just to confirm again my ignorance of all things nautical!
And the earlier announcement, "The rain now arriving..."?
@@rogeratygc7895 Ha ha - very good Roger 😆
Great content as always! Really nice seeing someone cover the history of my former local stations. Also kind of ironic in a way that 3 of the stations featured, when they were built, weren't considered part of Norwich. But thanks to the modern sprawl of the city they are! As a local resident, to me it would make perfect sense if Marriots Way was at least converted into a light rail system. Traffic around that part of the city is always a nightmare...
Yes I was conscious that Drayton was pushing it a bit in terms of calling it a lost station of Norwich. Really glad you enjoyed the film!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways It's a suburb now, but it wasn't when the station closed. So, as always, YMMV.
I used Trowse station during the electrification in 1986.
Not many will have walked on that platform since!
The last station should definitely be restored to it's former glory. Shameful display!
It is a shame to see it decay in this way
Sounds like it should have been narrated by Alan Partridge…
I can't tell you how I had to quell my inner-Partridge when writing the commentary and passing sites of Partridge related interest whilst filming!
Great review! Whilst the former M&GN line from Norwich City was much underused in its day, it's closure and that of the line from Wymondham to East Dereham to Kings Lynn left a very large public transport gap in Norfolk that persists to present times.
Yes, Norfolk is very ill served by the railways, which was not always the case!
Lovely video mate more places to add to my list..so well made and narrated well done
Very kind of you to say so, thank you!
The signal box at Whitlington Junction survived into the 2000s, but was demolished when the signalling on the line to Cromer was 'modernised'.
Oh and there were plans to extend the line from Norwich City further into the heart of the city, believe it would've terminated partway way between the castle and Thorpe station. If built, the line would've cut through the grounds of Norwich Cathedral which prompted much opposition to the plans and in the end parliament ruled against it.
Great bits of information, thanks for sharing 👍
Fascinating survey of what once was a hub of railway activity. I enjoyed the way you contrasted 'now' and 'then' with the use of archive footage and an elegant , informative narrative.
Thank you for your very kind remarks about my film and narration - much appreciated!
A great and interesting video. So much is lost.
Glad you enjoyed it
A nice video into the past. Thank you for the great video and chat. Cheers!
Many thanks for you comment - very much appreciated!
I don't know if I mentioned this before but there's an abandoned station not far from me which is still in pretty good condition for it's age and it can still be seen from the line once served it ( now a shared cycle route ) and you can still see a station building from the main road and if you look extra carefully you can just about see and work out the opposite platform with some ballast from all them years ago ( definitely worth walking or cycling if anyone gets a chance )
Always happy for a recommendation!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways It would be something pretty cool for the channel and plus the old waiting room is now a cafe which was restored back in 2010 and you can tell if it's a waiting room as it says "Waiting room on the door"
The Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway (terminus Norwich City) was an entire network which would keep this channel in business all by itself for two years. In peak Victoriana it had made out of the obscure medieval hamlet of Melton Constable an industrial metropolis of workshops and carriage sidings, now all gone, and Melton Constable has resumed its medieval slumber. Sic transit gloria mundi.
I have strongly considered making a video devoted to covering the whole of the M&GN... it is tempting to be sure...massive undertaking also...but I have heard about Melton Constable - like a Crewe of Norfolk - what an extraordinary story!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways It was indeed, I believe they even built engines there. Now it hasn't even got a railway station, thus my flight into Latin. I can only warmly encourage at least parts of the truly "massive undertaking", maybe the line from Melton Constable (erstwhile centre of the universe) to Melton Mowbray, the next big station a mere 5 km after Saxby on the M&GN, my place of birth, and producer of the world's most succulent pork pies. Now if that's not worth a few bramble entanglings ...
Nice summary of developments if not progress.
Many thanks indeed!
This a very enjoyable and fascinating video, thank you. I do like to see the old photos of the stations in their heyday, but it feels so sad to see how these lovely buildings have been replaced by ugly monstrosities. What a poor decision it was to get rid of so many lines seeing as the powers that be now want us to use public transport rather than drive.
Very kind of you to say so and thank you for your thoughts!
Can you remake the videos before the great central one
I'm working my way through them. I'm working on my Wisbech one now and then next, a complete overhaul of my Oxford to Cambridge film!
Very good video. Shame it's all gone.
Agreed - and many thanks!
2:31
I never knew of the word "kunst" in English before !
It's German for "art".
Doesn't appear in my dictionary.
Yes, that's the one!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways
Ich verstehe nicht, warum du ein Deustches Wort benutzen hat !
@@lewis72 I've heard the word widely used!
My partner comes from Cromer and like me is a history/train fanatic. This video is something we have been waiting for. It’s truly fabulous. Very enjoyable
I'm glad it didn't disappoint and did justice to your partner's neck of the woods!
Another superb film. Expertly narrated and produced.
Very kind of you to say so, thank you!
Very interesting, an put together. Perfect
Thank you indeed!
Even though it's Norwich's only station, I still refer to it as Thorpe Station.
During my research I learned that you're not alone in that regard!
I stand to be corrected, but I think it actually stands in the Norwich superb of Thorpe, being the other side of the river. And yes always Thorpe Station for me too.
Excellent once again please keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
Fantastic video. (As always!)
Many thanks for you comment - very much appreciated!
Another great video! Enjoyed this one as I have a big soft spot for Norwich. My wife grew up in Hellesdon and had no idea it used to have a station. Must travel over there for an explore.
Many thanks for you comment and thoughts - very much appreciated!
Trowse
has talks of returning
From what I gather, such talks are reported periodically - it's hard to see what the advantage of this would be...
I enjoy the poetic narration. Well done.
Thank you! I had to make my literature degree count for something!
Always a pleasure to watch, excellent again! 👏🙂
Very kind of you to say so, thank you!
Very nicely put together thank you
My pleasure - thank you!
really nicely presented - thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I used to live near Norwich and its such a wonderful city. As it's known as the "Fine City". And my parents also likes Norwich.
I don't know it very well but I have enjoyed visiting it a few times - that title seems well earned!
I city once known for having a church for every sunday of the year, and a pub for every day. No-longer true, but it's packed with fine old buildings in odd spots. I love Norwich, and grew up near there. But it was a deathly dull place to live as a youngster. Maybe it's improved now.
Norwich railway station is my favourite. But yes the city centre is lovely. Also with the Class 379 Electrostars which are parked up and unused. I do think that they are likely to be cascaded to Great Northern.
Very well done. As the last station building is listed it would be possible for the local authority to serve a repair order of some form upon the owners (if not them).
It would be great to see that lovely building have some sort of afterlife!
Great video and very informative.keep up the good work.many thanks.
Thanks, will do!
Oh good!! Love these videos! Thanks for sharing this!
My pleasure and thanks for your support!
Superb as always my good man
Always glad to get the approval of my long-term subscribers!