At 67, I've been doing about 6 hours a weak of resistance training per week for about the last 7 years. I pace myself, I take breaks and deloads whenever I feel the need, and my numbers are far from elite, but at this point in my life I'm the strongest I've ever been, and my energy and outlook feel optimal. Since beginning my lifting journey, I've been diagnosed with two unrelated cancers, and I'm convinced that starting my treatment at a high level of fitness was critical to my survival from at least one of them. I don't know why higher training regimes might be correlated with higher mortality, but it seems to me that if you enjoy it and it improves your daily life, it's probably not shortening it.
Power to you! Strong bodies fight illness better. I think your approach to training is fantastic and it shows. Greg mentioned some explanations for the apparent higher mortality. It is not necessarily a causal relationship, so perhaps the people that were exercising more were somehow different. Additionally, if they're looking at death rates, it may indirectly select for people that are already in poor health. Someone that is prone to injury and/or has a preexisting condition can lead to injuries or stress that their body cannot handle, which would lead to negative outcomes. It does not necessarily mean that a high training regime would cause higher mortality in a relatively healthy adult. Exercise is a blessing, and this info wouldn't stop me from exercising as much as I do. You have an inspiring story, and I wish you the best of health. Stay strong!
Protein recommendations almost always, from what I can discern, center around the optimal amount of protein one should be eating to maximize muscle gain/retention, and in the question answered in this video about excessively minimal amounts of protein. My question is really centered on the practicality of protein intake in the context of a tight budget. Food prices, particularly meat prices, are higher right now, real wages are currently down, so buying enough meat to get a significant amount of daily protein for some is a big strain on the budget. So absent slamming a bunch of cheap protein shakes and eating a carton of egg whites twice a day, getting (for me as an example) 175-200g of protein per day will tax the budget too hard to justify pretty soon as a casual lifter with a family. So what would happen in the short-to-medium term if daily average protein intake went down to something more moderate, say 100-130g per day? It seems pretty obvious to me that it would be detrimental in the long term, and it would make sense if training volumes and intensity might have to be modulated in particular ways, but if you had to spend a year on sub-optimal but not excessively low protein numbers, what would actually be missed? Would you get 80% of gains? 30%? Would you be able to just maintain effectively for a while and/or would it make a future rebound effect more pronounced? Would love your thoughts.
What about a high protein diet and frequent meals for longevity? The longevity field seems to gravitate towards lower protein diets, with longer gaps without eating (aka intermittent fasting or other fasting methods) to encourage autophagy while trying to promote hypertrophy around the clock. Which basically means elevating mtor and supressing ampk which reduces autophagy and could lead to a reduction in health and probably life span. Basically the average iron bending athlete focusses so much on anabolism that the opposite metabolic pathway, bascially cell house keeping, gets supressed. What I am wondering is what the best middle way between those two approaches, maximum anabolism and maximum longevity might be. I personally do intermittent fasting but I also try my protein in the feeding window high, including protein with a lot of leucine like whey. So far my progress in the gym and the mirror is still very good. Also, the reduction in longevity with high volume might be connected in part with more and more regular protein consumtion thus possibly reducing health by decreased autophagy. Also I wonder if those studies controlled for the use of steroids and other longevity reducing substances which would probably correlated to the amount of lifting to some degree.
Unfortunately they are simply antagonistic goals. As you say, the pathways are just about the opposite ones. Skinny endurance runners and casters live longer, even if no peds are used by the strength athletes compared. Then there are those that say too much aerobic stress shortens your heart's lifespan, even without ASCVD. At the end of the day, longevity science is just not advanced enough to get us to being the first practical immortals, so you're left with the same equation on longevity vs quality/enjoyment as the rest of humanity to date. If you enjoy lifting or it's the only activity that you can stick to for your health goals, keep doing it. If you are fine giving some of it up for longevity's sake, that's cool, too, but don't expect to be adding 10-20 years, it's only ever a few average years here and there.
@@PinataOblongata This is the right answer. My even more nuanced answer is that the amount of calories, protein and training stress you need on maintenance is significantly lower than while optimizing hypertrophy/strength. I've increasingly come to the conclusion that serious hypertrophy training for non-competitors should only be done for a few years to build a healthy/aesthetic body, then you should downregulate into long term maintenance mode with a more minimal resistance training protocol. of course if you love the bodybuilding/serious lifting lifestyle you can enjoy it but understand there is probably at least a minor tradeoff (Mike Istraetel has discussed this).
@@PinataOblongata question is if there is a middle ground. Maybe it is enough to be high in mtor only for part of the day to grow,and the rest of the day ampk does the house keeping. I mean we do not know how long we need to keep ampk high and mtor low, and in older age actually higher protein intake increases longevity because it lowers frailty
Yes OMAD or intermittent fasting is simply healthier than say 5 meals a day. All the science seems to indicate this. Protein you should really go with the lowest amount that yields results. 1g per lbs of bodyweight seems to be overkill for most people in basically every study. With only small gains to be had beyond 0.45g per pound of bodyweight. It's better to err slightly on the lower side when it comes to protein and number of meals and health/longevity.
Really, really, REALLY curious to see what the dietary and sleeping habits, cardiovascular exercise habits (mins/week), average steps per day and overall lifestyle was in the group performing more than 60-90min per week of resistance training. All of those factors I mentioned play a HUGE role in longevity and we don't have any data on them (to my knowledge..?) in these studies.
I think about time as a limiting factor here. If you spend a lot of time in the gym, you may not have a lot of time left to do cardio or relax as much.
Also, like Greg mentioned, previous history of health before the study will matter a lot. A person who was very fit, active and healthy all his life who does 3h of gym a week vs a another person doing that much who used to be obese until recently is a huge difference.
I've recently stopped drinking a protein shake (whole milk+whey) within 30m of bed. I didn't have issue with sleep disruption but I think the protein was overall extraneous in my diet.
Idk if y’all read comments. But I had FAI symptoms from doing low bar squats and conventional deadlift for 10+ years consistently. Swapping those for Hack squat machine and RDL variations made a huge difference. Then I started stretching my glutes, adductors,hamstrings for 5 minutes a day. I had more success with that then I did going to multiple PTs all over TX
Regarding the meta-review about mortality risk and minutes of resistance training/week: when they say "30-60" minutes or whatever, does that refer to time spent during sets, or does it include (reasonable) rest times? Because that would matter a lot...
@@strongerbyscience Thanks! Nice to get an answer still, even on an old video! I work out 4-6 days a week, 1-1.5h per workout (including warm-up sets). I'm 38. I'm also trying to ramp up my cardio, which tends to be neglected, but makes a noticable difference in my recovery and feeling between training sessions. I wonder how the combination of cardio and lifting might affect this mysterious J curve effect. Any data or videos from the past?
I am currently massing at about 65kg (about145lbs ) but I eat 3750 cals atm gaining about 0.3-4 kg per week for a bout 3 months. Issue I hve is due to 600g of carbs a lot of my protein is pretty shit sources should I go 1.5lbs due to incomplete sources
No read the literature. I've personally never seen more than 0.75g of protein per lbs have any measurable effect. So at your weight 100-110g of protein are EASILY enough to build up muscle, unless you are a vegan then maybe add another 40g
Goriaas I have, lit seems to repeat that as long as 50% of intake is complete it’s ok but 600g of carbs from rice is about 70g protein now that’s well over 50% of my intake….
Using time to quantify resistance training is useless. Maybe you spread 3 sets of 5 @ 50% on bench over that half an hour session, maybe you do that and get a few sets of deads and squats and/or accessories in, which is a lot more work. What are we actually talking about in terms of tonnage moved or sets and reps over that 0.5-1 hr per week? It still leaves people flailing around not knowing what to actually do.
For me I sleep better with carbs, protein oats 1 hour before bed is perfect, not too full by bed but very satiated and slow digesting, oh and I add my creatine to it, easy way to remember and easy night routine
I don't know why I would talk to a doctor that usually doesn't specialize in nutrition or resistance training to determine if I should keep lifting in my old age. I've had terrible experience with doctors and resistance training. They rarely know the issues with lifters or muscle building. And I'm not buying this metanalysis. As long as you're avoiding the juice, exercising into your old age should be fine. I've heard other studies claiming all cause mortality goes up substantially if you lose grip and leg strength in your old age. So which study is right? The one saying don't do much resistance training or the one saying keep your grip and leg strength in a good place as old as you can? Why so many contradicting studies? One study says resistance training good for old folks and one study saying but only an hour a week? Give me a break with these studies. It seems to me you can construct a study to prove a risk for anything, even multiple studies completely contradicting each other's end result. Which one do you believe? It seems to me it comes a point in scientific process where they are becoming their own worst enemy by producing so many contradictory studies that they are reaching the point where I buy their information as much as I buy the information from the local religious guy predicting the end of the world.
"I've heard other studies claiming all cause mortality goes up substantially if you lose grip and leg strength in your old age. So which study is right?" They aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't take much training to maintain strength.
@@greglnuckols It seems there are a lot of contradictory studies. And 60 minutes a weak of resistance training is pretty low. What counts as resistance training? Just lifting weights? Sprinting? Lifting boxes at home moving something? Biking? All of this stuff works the muscles and the cardio system. Seems like a real questionable study. What are you doing with the rest of your time as an old person? Sitting around waiting to die watching TV? That particular study just seems off.
@@azulsimmons1040 ehh, not much contradictory evidence here. The studies feeding into this meta had pretty consistent results. You can read the studies for yourself to see how they defined resistance training. It was generally defined specifically as resistance *exercise*, though (i.e. lifting, bodyweight training, etc.); distinct from NEAT and workplace activity. Things like biking are classified as endurance exercise in cohort studies. "What are you doing with the rest of your time as an old person? Sitting around waiting to die watching TV?" If you can't think of things to do with your time beyond lifting weights and watching TV, it may not be a bad idea to expand your pool of hobbies.
I love the use of section titles on the episode, makes it so easy to go back to part that you fell asleep to or wanted to revisit for other reasons.
At 67, I've been doing about 6 hours a weak of resistance training per week for about the last 7 years. I pace myself, I take breaks and deloads whenever I feel the need, and my numbers are far from elite, but at this point in my life I'm the strongest I've ever been, and my energy and outlook feel optimal. Since beginning my lifting journey, I've been diagnosed with two unrelated cancers, and I'm convinced that starting my treatment at a high level of fitness was critical to my survival from at least one of them.
I don't know why higher training regimes might be correlated with higher mortality, but it seems to me that if you enjoy it and it improves your daily life, it's probably not shortening it.
Power to you!
Strong bodies fight illness better. I think your approach to training is fantastic and it shows.
Greg mentioned some explanations for the apparent higher mortality. It is not necessarily a causal relationship, so perhaps the people that were exercising more were somehow different. Additionally, if they're looking at death rates, it may indirectly select for people that are already in poor health. Someone that is prone to injury and/or has a preexisting condition can lead to injuries or stress that their body cannot handle, which would lead to negative outcomes. It does not necessarily mean that a high training regime would cause higher mortality in a relatively healthy adult.
Exercise is a blessing, and this info wouldn't stop me from exercising as much as I do. You have an inspiring story, and I wish you the best of health. Stay strong!
M
Congrats Greg on the RTTS progress! May you be rewarded with youtube engagement.
Good news: based on the mortality-lifting J curve if you want to instantly die, like I do, one must only exercise for about 66,000min/wk.
Protein recommendations almost always, from what I can discern, center around the optimal amount of protein one should be eating to maximize muscle gain/retention, and in the question answered in this video about excessively minimal amounts of protein. My question is really centered on the practicality of protein intake in the context of a tight budget. Food prices, particularly meat prices, are higher right now, real wages are currently down, so buying enough meat to get a significant amount of daily protein for some is a big strain on the budget. So absent slamming a bunch of cheap protein shakes and eating a carton of egg whites twice a day, getting (for me as an example) 175-200g of protein per day will tax the budget too hard to justify pretty soon as a casual lifter with a family. So what would happen in the short-to-medium term if daily average protein intake went down to something more moderate, say 100-130g per day? It seems pretty obvious to me that it would be detrimental in the long term, and it would make sense if training volumes and intensity might have to be modulated in particular ways, but if you had to spend a year on sub-optimal but not excessively low protein numbers, what would actually be missed? Would you get 80% of gains? 30%? Would you be able to just maintain effectively for a while and/or would it make a future rebound effect more pronounced? Would love your thoughts.
What about a high protein diet and frequent meals for longevity? The longevity field seems to gravitate towards lower protein diets, with longer gaps without eating (aka intermittent fasting or other fasting methods) to encourage autophagy while trying to promote hypertrophy around the clock. Which basically means elevating mtor and supressing ampk which reduces autophagy and could lead to a reduction in health and probably life span. Basically the average iron bending athlete focusses so much on anabolism that the opposite metabolic pathway, bascially cell house keeping, gets supressed. What I am wondering is what the best middle way between those two approaches, maximum anabolism and maximum longevity might be. I personally do intermittent fasting but I also try my protein in the feeding window high, including protein with a lot of leucine like whey. So far my progress in the gym and the mirror is still very good.
Also, the reduction in longevity with high volume might be connected in part with more and more regular protein consumtion thus possibly reducing health by decreased autophagy. Also I wonder if those studies controlled for the use of steroids and other longevity reducing substances which would probably correlated to the amount of lifting to some degree.
Unfortunately they are simply antagonistic goals. As you say, the pathways are just about the opposite ones. Skinny endurance runners and casters live longer, even if no peds are used by the strength athletes compared. Then there are those that say too much aerobic stress shortens your heart's lifespan, even without ASCVD. At the end of the day, longevity science is just not advanced enough to get us to being the first practical immortals, so you're left with the same equation on longevity vs quality/enjoyment as the rest of humanity to date. If you enjoy lifting or it's the only activity that you can stick to for your health goals, keep doing it. If you are fine giving some of it up for longevity's sake, that's cool, too, but don't expect to be adding 10-20 years, it's only ever a few average years here and there.
@@PinataOblongata This is the right answer. My even more nuanced answer is that the amount of calories, protein and training stress you need on maintenance is significantly lower than while optimizing hypertrophy/strength. I've increasingly come to the conclusion that serious hypertrophy training for non-competitors should only be done for a few years to build a healthy/aesthetic body, then you should downregulate into long term maintenance mode with a more minimal resistance training protocol. of course if you love the bodybuilding/serious lifting lifestyle you can enjoy it but understand there is probably at least a minor tradeoff (Mike Istraetel has discussed this).
@@PinataOblongata question is if there is a middle ground. Maybe it is enough to be high in mtor only for part of the day to grow,and the rest of the day ampk does the house keeping. I mean we do not know how long we need to keep ampk high and mtor low, and in older age actually higher protein intake increases longevity because it lowers frailty
Yes OMAD or intermittent fasting is simply healthier than say 5 meals a day. All the science seems to indicate this. Protein you should really go with the lowest amount that yields results.
1g per lbs of bodyweight seems to be overkill for most people in basically every study. With only small gains to be had beyond 0.45g per pound of bodyweight.
It's better to err slightly on the lower side when it comes to protein and number of meals and health/longevity.
they did a podcast regarding the effects of protein and calorie restruction a few episodes ago
Really, really, REALLY curious to see what the dietary and sleeping habits, cardiovascular exercise habits (mins/week), average steps per day and overall lifestyle was in the group performing more than 60-90min per week of resistance training. All of those factors I mentioned play a HUGE role in longevity and we don't have any data on them (to my knowledge..?) in these studies.
I think about time as a limiting factor here. If you spend a lot of time in the gym, you may not have a lot of time left to do cardio or relax as much.
Also, like Greg mentioned, previous history of health before the study will matter a lot. A person who was very fit, active and healthy all his life who does 3h of gym a week vs a another person doing that much who used to be obese until recently is a huge difference.
How come Eric never shows us his head? Can we please see Eric’s head? I want to see Eric’s head. Please show head
Always have this on just before bed to fall asleep to.
Not sure what that says about the podcast...
Keep up the good work guys!!
I've recently stopped drinking a protein shake (whole milk+whey) within 30m of bed. I didn't have issue with sleep disruption but I think the protein was overall extraneous in my diet.
Idk if y’all read comments. But I had FAI symptoms from doing low bar squats and conventional deadlift for 10+ years consistently. Swapping those for Hack squat machine and RDL variations made a huge difference. Then I started stretching my glutes, adductors,hamstrings for 5 minutes a day. I had more success with that then I did going to multiple PTs all over TX
QUESTION: Can intense exercise damage one's heart?
"You probably won't implode" ... gotta always leave that wiggle room for the 1%
What do yall thing about the Big Boy vs Joey Stax situation 🤔
Is there a spot available for another co-host?
Regarding the meta-review about mortality risk and minutes of resistance training/week: when they say "30-60" minutes or whatever, does that refer to time spent during sets, or does it include (reasonable) rest times? Because that would matter a lot...
It includes rest times!
@@strongerbyscience Thanks! Nice to get an answer still, even on an old video! I work out 4-6 days a week, 1-1.5h per workout (including warm-up sets). I'm 38. I'm also trying to ramp up my cardio, which tends to be neglected, but makes a noticable difference in my recovery and feeling between training sessions. I wonder how the combination of cardio and lifting might affect this mysterious J curve effect. Any data or videos from the past?
Wait did he just say I’m gonna die earlier if I resistance train more than 30-60 min per week? 😳
I am currently massing at about 65kg (about145lbs ) but I eat 3750 cals atm gaining about 0.3-4 kg per week for a bout 3 months. Issue I hve is due to 600g of carbs a lot of my protein is pretty shit sources should I go 1.5lbs due to incomplete sources
No read the literature. I've personally never seen more than 0.75g of protein per lbs have any measurable effect. So at your weight 100-110g of protein are EASILY enough to build up muscle, unless you are a vegan then maybe add another 40g
Goriaas I have, lit seems to repeat that as long as 50% of intake is complete it’s ok but 600g of carbs from rice is about 70g protein now that’s well over 50% of my intake….
Goriaas equally love pasta but again 600g of carbs from pasta is 100g of protein
Using time to quantify resistance training is useless. Maybe you spread 3 sets of 5 @ 50% on bench over that half an hour session, maybe you do that and get a few sets of deads and squats and/or accessories in, which is a lot more work. What are we actually talking about in terms of tonnage moved or sets and reps over that 0.5-1 hr per week? It still leaves people flailing around not knowing what to actually do.
For me I sleep better with carbs, protein oats 1 hour before bed is perfect, not too full by bed but very satiated and slow digesting, oh and I add my creatine to it, easy way to remember and easy night routine
I don't know why I would talk to a doctor that usually doesn't specialize in nutrition or resistance training to determine if I should keep lifting in my old age. I've had terrible experience with doctors and resistance training. They rarely know the issues with lifters or muscle building. And I'm not buying this metanalysis. As long as you're avoiding the juice, exercising into your old age should be fine. I've heard other studies claiming all cause mortality goes up substantially if you lose grip and leg strength in your old age. So which study is right? The one saying don't do much resistance training or the one saying keep your grip and leg strength in a good place as old as you can? Why so many contradicting studies? One study says resistance training good for old folks and one study saying but only an hour a week? Give me a break with these studies. It seems to me you can construct a study to prove a risk for anything, even multiple studies completely contradicting each other's end result. Which one do you believe? It seems to me it comes a point in scientific process where they are becoming their own worst enemy by producing so many contradictory studies that they are reaching the point where I buy their information as much as I buy the information from the local religious guy predicting the end of the world.
"I've heard other studies claiming all cause mortality goes up substantially if you lose grip and leg strength in your old age. So which study is right?"
They aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't take much training to maintain strength.
@@greglnuckols It seems there are a lot of contradictory studies. And 60 minutes a weak of resistance training is pretty low. What counts as resistance training? Just lifting weights? Sprinting? Lifting boxes at home moving something? Biking? All of this stuff works the muscles and the cardio system. Seems like a real questionable study. What are you doing with the rest of your time as an old person? Sitting around waiting to die watching TV? That particular study just seems off.
@@azulsimmons1040 ehh, not much contradictory evidence here. The studies feeding into this meta had pretty consistent results.
You can read the studies for yourself to see how they defined resistance training. It was generally defined specifically as resistance *exercise*, though (i.e. lifting, bodyweight training, etc.); distinct from NEAT and workplace activity. Things like biking are classified as endurance exercise in cohort studies.
"What are you doing with the rest of your time as an old person? Sitting around waiting to die watching TV?"
If you can't think of things to do with your time beyond lifting weights and watching TV, it may not be a bad idea to expand your pool of hobbies.
Do you sell bumper stickers? I want one for my car 🚗
I'm 66, I do a reasonable amount of resistance work, but I don't try to eat like a bodybuilder, that'll kill ya :-)