Thanks for watching! Ready for a behind-the-scenes ЯR experience? 👾 Check out Retro Recipes PowerUp! 🚀 perifractic.com/powerup 📼 Dive into bonus videos, get an early start on main vids, jam out to ЯR music, see your name in lights & more! ✨ By supporting the heart and soul of ЯR you help us keep the channel & nostalgia alive 🙌
At 5:58 .. "To connect or disconnect the device, always hold the plug. NEVER pull from the cable, Christian" 🥺....+... No.. wait I'm writing it wrong.. it should be "naitsorhC ,elbac eht morf llup REVEN .gulp eht dloh syawla ,ecived eht tcennocsid ro tcennoc oT"🤯 +
@@BrianKitching-wv5nh Thanks! Absolutely, I have several major videos planned for KITT, and KITTesla. One day KITT will be fully EV and fully self-driving. Believe it or not that it possible. Stay tuned!
@retro recipes. Have you considered sampling the engine sound of K.I.T.T. and installing a few outdoor speakers and a mini sub under the car so it sounds like K.I.T.T aswell? It's something I've thought about doing to my car although I can not afford a replica. But I'm cough cough K.I.T.T. ing out my own car I'm rebuilding I've built by own scanner ect. I first used to think of this when I played with my air wolf toys I recorded it from TV and used to play it back😂 oh the things we used to do when we were kids. I loved the 80's as you had to use your imagination all the time nowadays there is a app for everything😂😂. Kind of sad though, great video again fella👍👍👍👍 looks good kind of a commadore 64 with a actual decent colour pallet. I just bought 50 joysticks I got very cheap so going through them and reconditioning them. I god alot of decent ones some bad and some of the absolutely ugly😂 best thing about these machines is programmers will have to learn the machines and how to push them further and further, which for me is exciting, it's what is missing from modern games they are all samey not much imagination, nowadays people just rely on raw power they don't seem to find ways to optimize and try new graphics techniques they rely on epic or unity we need to get cough cough back to basic😂 or machine programming.
I'm the one who ported the mandelbrot algorithm presented in its wiki page to the F256K. It's using slow real number multiplication and divisions and could be significantly sped up using floating point numbers in assembly, but my 6502-fu is not high enough. I was an early 2023 adopter of this machine and mandel.bas helped me identify a marginal instability in my machine, which led to more stable vicky firmwares!
As you of course know, but others might not, I did a Mandelbrot render on a '816 equipped F256 that uses the hardware integer multiplier and completes the initial screen in 27 seconds. The platform is seriously powerful for 8 bit.
@@csoren73 I installed BASIC on a £4 Raspberry Pico and ran the Mandlebrot. It was not a case of how many seconds to produce one but how many per second. I added a GOTO 10 at the end of the program and the Mandlebrots were flying up the screen so fast it created a strange animated strobing effect.
My first thought as you talked about the Foenix and Commander X16 was "if there was a good guide to how to program in depth, I'd probably buy it." It being either one. I'll check out the Foenix material, the tutorial. When I was a kid in 1982 I begged for an Atari 400 so I could learn to program my own games. It was beyond me as a youngster to find the material I needed to really learn. Today I program on Linux as a hobby but I'd absolutely love to do assembly and C programming on a retro 8 bit computer. And I think kids with the right temperament would find the computer fascinating. With Linux, Windows, and Mac you can't get down into the metal. The Foenix looks like a computer you can really dig into! Not owning a Windows machine, I hope there are ways Linux can support a Foenix computer! This looks very exciting.
I am the one who did the little balls demo. The F256 has 64 hardware sprites, the demo displays 280 sprites multiplexed using 44 hardware sprites. It uses roughly half the CPU time, leaving some room for game logic.
@@Starredmediasoft The NeoGeo has way more sprites, but the F256 has 3 tile map layers and two 256 color bitmaps. They're probably about equal in graphics power, even if they use different means to get there.
Thanks for putting some lights on this project. I love to see all those retro systems coming alive in our modern era, there is indeed room for more retro computers :)
My heart warms whenever I see new hardware or software being released, for everything from the Atari 2600 to the ZX Spectrum to the C64 and Amiga and more. One question: If it has 512K of RAM, why did you call it the "F256K" instead of the "F512K"?
@@JustWasted3HoursHere 256 colors at once on screen hence the F256K. The K means Keyboard included, to contrast it with the F256Jr. There's 512K RAM, 512K Flash. Either are expandable to an additional 256K through a cartridge, but not both at the same time.
@@anybitfeverdreamsHmm... Should have called it the K256F instead, or the F512K since the dual 512K RAM/Flash are its major feature. But hey, the developer reserves first rights to call their creation whatever they want. Could have been the "Poopy Pants 3000"! LOL.
So very happy that you reviewed this product and *why* you reviewed it. I've been considering it for a few months and your video helped me take the plunge. Supporting less well-known entrepreneurs and increeasing the diversity of product in this niche market is a worthwhile cause. Thank you again for the review.
@@stevebuckley7788 I think it's only 3 for the SID chip. The OPL3 can do up to 18 with simple "channel on/off" stereo, and quad-channel output (though as far as I know only the Resound card actually exposes the rear two)..
Sat in my workshop, can't feel my hands, but had to watch this uninterrupted, and I'm in absolute awe at this beautiful computer. What an amazing build! Wish I could afford one, it looks spectacular!
Know that cold feeling. Normally I can use my garage in UK between March and September. This year was good until early November. It is the only place on the house that the Mrs allows me create mess. So therapeutic :-) My creative space. What you use yours for?
@@stephenhookings1985 same here! Haha, sheer stubbornness keeps me down here in the winter 🤣 It's my space for tinkering with old electronics, carburettors, and doing an awful job playing around with synthesizers! Haha And of course, watching Retro Recipes the entire time!!
I’d heard of the Foenix before, but never really investigated further. After watching this, I gotta say, this looks really enticing. A compact retro solution with a real mechanical keyboard, real 6502 processor, and a lot of nice features. Even an option to play with alternate processors. Very tempted to support this.
I am very honored Stephany reached out to me for the stickers & badges. Awesome machine indeed! I think I will grab a 1591 as soon as it’s available again 👍😎
I'm about to release a wifi module build-and-setup video soon for my F256K. Still early days , but there's a project to rally the troops for it. There are 2 online servers that you can test it with for now.
@@RetroRecipes I'm not up to that level of coding heroism but I'm game to make a quick and nasty game client if coached a bit. In any case, the video is now up in anybit FD!
Norman (beethead) has a bunch more game prototypes (ALL with headbanging sid tunes), there's also a cute basic sprite and tilemap editor (from Enrnesto) and various other projects slowly but surely advancing. More fresh blood is the way to go in any case!
If you can, can you explain why games written in assembly can't run off the sd card? To me, that's a big problem. You should be able to load any program from SD card and run it. You seem to be part of the f256 community. Please tell those in charge that this has to get fixed!
@@darksword1 You absolutely can run them off the SD card. As was shown with balls.pgz, the programmer needs to prepare a executable in the PGZ format, which rests in several pieces in RAM (code somewhere, sprites, bitmaps elsewhere, etc). As long as a developper is still working on a given project in WIP mode, it's faster to send new iterations with the mini-USB cable straight up into RAM. For sharing to others, of course the PGZ route makes more sense. But here comes an important step - deciding that the project is finished "enough" to prep it for release! :D The people finally adopting the PGZ scheme is rising. On top of it all, the python scripts recently added support for sending over files through the mini-usb directly to the SD card sitting in the F256K, removing the need to do the whole dance of eject-write to from modern machine-reinsert back.
@@darksword1assembling into a runnable pgz is doable now. They are being used more often as time goes on when something is ready for release or for sharing out. The balls demo in the video was assembled that way. Using bin files sent to ram is popular while the dev is in wip mode and wants to test iterations.
It is a cool project for sure - thanks for giving it a more public platform. I'm sure Stephany will be very responsive to the feedback from this video, too - this is definitely a passion project. The CX16's emulator really factored into the platform's software development success, so a smoothly-operating high-fidelity Foenix emulator should be high-priority. That, and give the users flexibility to configure the machine's personality (i.e. default colour combinations, which might be possible today, but wasn't covered in the video). The form factor is definitely nostalgic, and might be the reason for many to buy it (like me!). As an aside - any chance p-code compilers (thinking of Blitz) are in the pipeline? Thx for a great video, Perifractic!!
It isn't a Western Digital processor... It's a WDC or Western Design Center. The 65C02 and the 65C816 processors were pretty much designed by a single genius by the name of Bill Mensch. WDC is often confused with WD :-)
@@RetroRecipes I used to mix those companies up all the time. It is interesting that the Acorn team visited the Western Design Center when they were looking to assemble a team to design the ARM processor. Upon getting Bill and discovering that he had basically designed the 65816 by himself, they returned home having decided to design the ARM in house and they succeeded very well. I love your content good sir.
A "single" genius? You are kinda shafting Chuck Peddle here considering Mensch worked under him in creating the 6502 which was the basis for the 2 processors in question! Bill is an amazing brilliant chip designer, but credit where credit is due. 😀
I didn't mean to disrespect Chuck. I actually bought that Kim 1 when it first came out... I was a kid... I guess I should have pointed out the features I was referring to was the buss error mechanism that Bill pioneered... Interestingly Bill said that the ARM team was the only people to ever ask about that mechanism, but no I Apologize for the way that sounded... Chuck was actually the only reason that I was able to afford a computer back then, having created the NMOS 6502 that sold for $25 (or was it $20... It's been a long time). Sorry Chuck... I seem to recall that my original ceramic 6502 had an issue with one of the rotate instructions but Chuck fixed that rather quickly
@@retroatx No problem. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. You most definately respect Chuck, and if you were OG enough to have purchased a KIM-1 I salute you. I was a snot-nosed kid when the 6502 and KIM-1 were released! (and it was $25 a chip. Absolutely insane price.)
Dope product. It definitely needs more programs. The Asteroids game was fantastic. Love the retro! Bravo to all! Hope this thing takes off. Thanks RR for the spotlight on this product!
It's a great machine, and she has other interesting machines as well. What really got me interested in this one was the disk drive. It's neat and all that the X16 can make use of an old commodore drive, but there's something really compelling about a new production, commodore compatible one being on the market. My X16 is on order, and once I've gotten to grips with that one after it comes, I'm sure I'll be buying a Foenix as well. And I do look forward to the BBS.
Not as retro as that computer but I wanted to let you know that I am doing my bit for keeping older tech alive. My Dad found an old laptop left on his bin and decided to take it in. I found that the operating system was incomplete (vista) so I installed a copy of windows 7 and have been happily using the old ASUS laptop to write a book about time travel! I feel it was like giving an old dog a new home where it has been loved again. Hardware is only too old when it can’t do what you want it to do. For me this laptop running word is perfect for taking time to write a book. Screen good, battery good, keyboard good. Love the channel!
For actually writing text, as opposed to detailed final layouts, adding pictures and printing etc, an old, simple machine is exceedingly useful. A proper text editor or really old school word processor is ideal. Sometimes you don't want to be distracted by the Web, TH-cam, reading emails or chatting on social media. You just want to sit down and get things written. The fine details can be added at the end in the latest and greatest word processor on a multi GHz computer. 😁
Man, what a brilliant intro, it absolutely blew me away (and made me realize that I really need to order the Knight Rider DVD box)! The Foenix is a great machine, I'm in favor of the 6502, so this config is exactly my cup of tea. Love the idea of the 1591 disk drive with 1581 compatibility. As a kid I wanted one, but they where to expensive, and they still are, even if you want to buy one of the aftermarket boards. But this combo, damn, I need to put it on my wishlist, it ticks all the right boxes: Keyboard, design, usability...
Hey old ZZ here. Awesome coverage of this amazing machine. Good job, KnightFractic! I received my F256k on Friday and am looking forward to using it and possibly porting some of my old BASIC stuff to it from the C64. But agree, this thing needs some major love with software support, documentation and more information.
This would have been a computer I would have loved to have back in the C-64 days... I just wished I had time to play around with this cool machine. I hope it does well, and very much is reminiscent of the computer competition days in the 1970's - 1990's a time that I look back fondly and glad to see that there's interest in the home/hobby computing market.
This is a great video. And hats off for highlighting another machine. After rewatching, I’m really thinking about buying the F256. It’s a really fascinating machine.
I love this kind of video, Peri. Thank you, so much. And I adore this machine - she's really ticked all the retro/nostalgia boxes for me with the design, functionality and esthetics. It's definitely on the short list for acquisition for me and possibly a platform I'd like to develop for. Thank you for sharing this 2nd Foenix video with us and I look forward to more.
Very nobel move from you to feature smaller creators even competitors to your "own" projects, Perifractic. There is room for everybody. So many new systems to choose from nowadays. On the one hand a very good thing on the other hand, even if you buy them all, you won't use them on regular basis, besides the systems we already have nostalgic feelings for which already consume a decent amount of time.
I agree about the clout of David for X16. Not just this project but also Agon Light, would benefit from that kind of clout. Agon has begun networking with other TH-camrs
@little_fluffy_clouds Being a kid in the 70's and 80's those computer/console wars were great. I love watching those comparison video showing te same game over lime 10 to 20 diffrent platforms. Those videos make ypu realize that it comes down to how good the programmer was.
Stefanie is a genius and her creations are hands down impressive. She does have the exposure issue yes, another issue is competition, there's the Commander X16, the Mega 65, actual legacy hardware (still a sizeable amount of actual C64's out there, and Apple II's, etc.) and other "new retro" hardware. But the external competition aside, she also has a competition problem with herself. She has made so many different machines, and even this one machine has so many configurable options (3 processor options being the main one, but secondarily memory upgrade options), where does one start? Her price points are challenging as well. $600 is a lot to lay out on a single hobby computer. edit: she's not alone here, the Mega 65 and a properly configured CX16 are in the same ball park. Also a bit of an aside: I find her website a bit challenging. For example, on the product's info page, why isn't the price listed there and an order button? Why is the info and shopping separated? It shouldn't be.
This is a beautiful machine, an excellent retro computer, well designed and well built... a true labour of love. But even the cheapest version is very expensive. I understand why it is expensive, it takes a lot of time and hard work, there's small scale production and it's a bespoke platform. It's difficult to justify spending that much money on a luxury that may not actually get a lot of use. It isn't a recreation of any particular platform, so it has no specific nostalgia, no big software library and no selection of books and old magazines to teach and entertain. I'm glad it exists, and I really hope it's a roaring success. 👍
There's also the Spectrum Next, which has a growing games library with some high-quality titles (it's hard to get one, but there are clones available, and they are relatively cheap).
Yeah, personally I feel like she loves creating hardware and that's cool, but as a possible buyer, I want to get a platform that I know is going to get all the love, and I feel like she is focused on too many things. That, the lack of community and the high price is what makes me hesitant to buy one at the moment.
@@espressomaticwell, yes, in fact all 8-bit computers are just niche hobbyist products now. If you think about it, no layperson would buy an 8-bit home computer in 2024 for any practical purpose, they’re just for us enthusiast tinkerers
Because it costs US$575.88, but hasn't reached what could be considered to be an adequate user base to provide guaranteed hardware longevity and widespread community support? At least that's what's holding me back. Same with the Commander X16. Neither have what I'd consider "critical mass" yet. I'd buy a much cheaper Agon, but it sucks for game programming. I'd MUCH rather see cheap Android TV boxes using Amlogic SoCs converted via a booted SD card into a programmable game system instead of emulation boxes for console and arcade ROMS as many are currently used. Their SoCs obviously have adequate graphics and sound capabilities as indicated by their game emulation capabilities.
In my opinion, this computer beats the X16 in every way. Including price if you buy the Foenix jr version, which has all the functionality as far as I can tell but doesn't come in the fancy case. You provide your own mini ITX case (which I prefer honestly).
Fun fact: Stefany Allaire originally designed the Foenix as an answer to The 8-Bit Guy's video about his dream computer, but he rejected her design due to the use of an FPGA. (He then later used an FPGA in the X16 anyway - in the video component, same place the Foenix uses one.) He mentions her in his second "Dream computer" video.
@@johnchowseymour Spreading lies should be severely punished by YT!!! In one short paragraph you said couple of lies: 1. Foenix was designed as an 8bit request for a dream computer, not to a video. When the first video came, that project had already started. 2. He rejected that project - primarily because of the cost, not FPGA. 3. "FPGA ... same place " - Foenix started with 3 FPGAs. X16 started and since then is with only one. 4. "He mentions her in his second "Dream computer" video" - another lie! P.S. I call YT moderators to ban that account for intentional spreading lies and undermining authority of the The 8-Bit Guy! REPORTED!
@@SquallSf, ah, I apologize for misremembering which video it was - you're right, he mentions Stefany in his first video, not his second. This also means that, as you point out, she knew about it before his first video came out (he says they talked about it at a retro gaming expo). Thanks for clarifying!
@@SquallSf It meets all the design requirements for the original X16 concept, while also having better sound, better video, and being cheaper. I like the 8 bit guy and I like the X16... but if I were only to buy one computer, this one would be the one I would buy.
I prefer this design over the X16 because of the "wedge" enclosure and the 9-pin joystick support. The design of the two games are really professional-looking. If I could afford to have all the retro machines that I want, I would buy one but as at the moment I can have only one, I am going for the Mega65 which has the C64 compatibility.
There seems to be a $75 USD rebate on F256K purchases right now until December 5th - I don't know if I missed it in your video (I was interrupted a bunch of times while watching...) but that'd be a cool thing to add as a pinned post on top of your note in the description!
Yup the discount code "perifractic" is on screen for a while, and is in the description. That gets you the $75 off :) [not sponsored/not an affiliate link]
As someone excited to get my hands on a Spectrum Next 2 here soon, I agree that there is more than enough room for a few of these amazing lil retro compys. I just wish someone would do a Tandy/TRS CoCo modernized version.
Well there is agroup supporting Os/9 in the Foenix Community with this hardware, since one of the CPUs supported is the 6809. They even have Nethack running on it now..
A true classic-style Retro Recipes computer video! Complete with RR, C.S. music! The Foenix looks fun. It’s out of my personal scope but I can see droves of fans buying it and having fun as new software becomes available OR maybe some of those clever buyers (more clever than I in the Retro computing arena 😉) will become the new program writers for the Foenix! I’d love to see occasional updates on this on RR. 😎
Yeah it's been a while since I have done a pure ЯR computer video in this style, and the good thing is it made me miss it! I'll definitely try to revisit this computer. Cheers Doc!
Halfway through so far but I want to get this out before I forget to. The WDC that makes the 6502 these days is Western Design Center not Western Digital
All it needs is excellently suitable development software - Cross platform C compiler, Macro Assembler, source editor. Actually, a suite of office productivity software and printer support would make it even more attractive. Anything to make it fun & interesting to use. Graphics program with sprite and font design, music sequencer, etc. The tools to make software. That default text color really needs to be brighter.
So basically, what you are looking for is something that can play old style games and do basic productivity work, attaches to a modern printer and that also happens to have a decent set of modern programming tools to create fun programs. Well, it definitely exists... it's called a PC, or an Apple computer. Or even a Raspberry Pi. Examples of each can be picked up for less money than this computer. It really doesn't sound like you actually want an 8 bit machine.
Now I need this as well :D Thanx! Also. glad to see this format of your videos are back. These kinds of videos are my favorites of all your great content :)
An interesting video - there is potential there, and always fun to see another 8-bit related project. The music aspect is particularly cool. Having multiple systems able to access the disk drive is clever too.
I not only love that this market exists, I also love that there are options. And really, I hope more get developed in the future. Even with lack of exposure. After all, if it takes work just to learn of its existence, then odds are, it's probably going to be pretty cool.
I have a feeling that retro enjoyers aren't in the business of having only one system. F256K looks awesome, and side-loading from desktop would be my ideal work-flow. I don't want to go back to 40/80 column mode, and miss out on the productivity of newer dev environments, the code still needs to run on retro hardware, so it still presents the challenge. Bonus points for having built-in flash ROM programmer!
I will definitely take one of those disk drives, a 1581 clone would be a hot seller if it could come in at a decent price point because real 1581's are getting very expensive, and they are getting quite old too. For me, calling telnet BBSs is my #1 need in modern retro computer. That also requires a terminal program with hopefully 40 and 80 column support, Ascii, Ansi, Petscii support etc. Unfortunately projects like Mega 65, Commander x16 etc that isn't possible yet either due to no software or wifi. So I stick to the c128 for that for now. BBSs are due a comeback for various reasons. The other great use for new retro hardware, which would probably reach a larger audience than just retro tinkerers, is audio. The f256 with dual SIDs and OPL3 would be a chiptune powerhouse with proper tracker software and a MIDI cartridge (to at least sync midi clock to external gear). Or maybe a cartridge like the MSSIAH for c64. Paired with an output expander to add more audio outs for external processing, would really make it an in-demand unit.
Looks really nice, but, just like the X16 and the Console8, so expensive! I watch these and am always reminded of the short sequence towards the start of the great film “Micro Men”, where Sir Clive Sinclair (Alexander Armstrong) is paging through computer magazines while contemplating (what would become) the ZX80 and says to himself “so expensive……but why so expensive?”. Uzebox got the pricing right, if they’d only had a real Z80 or 6502 in there, and a few other bits like VGA output and keyboard support, they’d have really been onto something IMHO, the games for it are leagues ahead of the other options which cost orders of magnitude more.
@@magicknight8412I've got a KS2 Next on the way, hopefully, but even that isn't the right price point IMHO, £300, Sinclair did it back in the 80's for £125 (in a cave...with a bunch of scraps!). For something like this to work and establish a thriving software ecosystem, it has to be available for throwaway money, £100 or less, then it would appeal to the nostalgic and the new retro-fan alike. I'd happily create games for something like that all day. This is all good fun for the hobbyist, but the audience is limited. The Atari 2600+ is as close as I've seen, but suffers with some major issues. Firstly, it's a little "too retro" if that's a thing, it'll appeal definitely to those who had the 2600 as their first game console, but not to any kind of new audience, just a little too limited. Secondly, it uses emulation, which is a copout. Thirdly, it doesn't appear to be easy to develop for. The Speccy/C64/Amstrad/Dragon32/Atari/Apple all solved these problems, albeit most at too high a price. Today, it should be possible to create something that is small, simple, cheap and open. Simple enough for anyone to understand, open enough for anyone to develop for, and cheap enough that everyone (even the man on the Clapham omnibus) will want one.
Why is the red/purple text on that blue background so blurry? I know you mentioned about being color blind, but I can take the same colors into Photoshop, and type text in that red/purple color on that same blue background, and it's crisp and clear, easy to read. 9:22 in the video, that text is extremely blurry, however. All the other text appears crisp and clean, just not that red/purple color.
Great review and video. NitrOS-9 (OS-9) Level 1 and 2 are running on the F256 Jr. with the FNX6809. I'm looking for motivated folks to expand the software and demo program offerings on that side of the table.
Hello, yes I have that Red/Green problem too. Along with Blue/Purple and more. Anyway yes it was hard for me to read too. So yes the struggle is real. Great video. Watching these really brings me back to the 80's and exploring computers and all the new tech at the time. Yes that click you get when inserting the cartridge is so pleasing. I miss all the clicking of buttons and switches.
I really like this project, Stefany made something really cool! I really hope this will succeed in the market, although it's above my budget. Fantastic! Greetings from the Netherlands!
Great to see new retro / 8 bit machines such as this Foenix F256K, and others such as Commander X16, Mega 65, and many others. Also want to recognize the other C64 developers such a EVO64, C64 Reloaded MK2, Ultimate 64, Sixtyclone C64, Bwack C64, etc and it's great to see so many choices on the existing C64 platform. Personally I own a C64 Reloaded MK2 and an original C64c and I am quite happy with these and not in the market for new hardware at this time but still great to see all of these other projects. Peace!
Love seeing people build new retro computers today. It's funny that we have many, many, many times more CPU horsepower in the controllers that sit inside our MicroSD memory than the 6502 that powered our old machines (same for an army of other peripherals you'd find in a modern PC) yet these machines bring back a time when it wasn't just buying the latest CPU or GPU but actually creating something on your computer that you could show off and share with friends. I miss the old atari users group days, tho admittedly it was maybe 20% showing off cool stuff and 80% copying disks with the guy that brought two floppy drives with his Atari 130xe.
I like that it's not a Commodore or an X16. You are right there is room for multiple retro systems. Just like there is room for a Commodore and an Atari in the same house. If she doesn't mind a little criticism: I'd get rid of the Mini USB for either a USBA or USBC, just because people have tons of those around if they needed a spare. For my money, I only have a single mini USB cable that I am aware of in my house. But I got A's and C's to beat the band. I also have micro USB, but I wouldn't recommend that. Please lose the DVI and go HDMI or DP. Mind you, these wouldn't stop me from buying one, but it would be less frustrating. Pluses are definitely the drive support (as well as the custom drive! Have you seen how much 1581's go for these days?) and the cartridge port! Though if we are going yo rely on the ram cart, definitely consider a port expander. The controller port selection is great as well! There are a lot of good 9 pin controllers out there (Atari/Commodore, Sega, Hyperkin Trooper/Ranger, those Retrogameboyz NES-like gamepads) so plenty of action! Hope to see more of this system.
Just to add to this, I think usb-c is a more robust connector physically as well. Not sure of the price differences, but if there's not much of a gap, then a c connector would be great. DVI has the ability to do both analog and digital out, while DP/HDMI are digital only IIRC. That might be the technical reason for going with the DVI connector (you could have an hdmi->analog converter if you wanted to use it on a CRT, not sure if that'd add latency though).
HDMI requires licencing, which is apparently quite expensive. That tends to put it out of reach of many smaller scale projects. I believe that there are still more DVi equipped TVs and monitors than there are DP ones. But you can buy cheap conversion cables for most DP equipped devices, so probably not a big deal.
An A-type would be a very strange choice for an input, as A-to-A is against the USB design philosophy - should always be A to one of the B types, although the new C type will probably change this someday, that hasn't become the norm yet. The most common type of USB cable in my house is either A to Mini-B or A to Micro-B. I have only one USB C cable which I bought for an audio interface that only had a C port. Most of my peripherals still use some type of B, and I think it's a good choice for the Foenix as well.
@@tomcatsdb4755 Yeh, I saw reference to using the DVI port for analog output with a DVI to VGA lead. DVI connectors can support the analog VGA signals as well. The port appears to be a full DVI-I connector capable of carrying analog signals as well. I have cables for DVI to VGA. But does the Feonix actually include analog VGA signals on the DVI connector? Who knows? The website, and even the technical manual don’t seem to document this (or many other aspects of the system). Unfortunate really.
@@gregclare There is DVI-I which is digital only. DVI-D (which is the type of DVI port on this machine), has both. It'd be odd to have a DVI-D connector with essentially dead pins.
Back "in the day" we would've loved to have a home pc like this. It has lots of potential. I would like to see several C-64 classics adapted for the platform.
BITD, we would have thought this was incredible. But machines like the Amiga and Atari ST gave us that massive upgrade. PCs and Macs evolved into monstrously powerful machines. Today, a computer with the power of the Foenix would be laughable, as we all have access to far better hardware. We can emulate those 16 and 32 bit machines with ease, and we could emulate the Foenix too. It wasn't available alongside the Amiga, ST, PC or Mac that we actually upgraded too. It has none of that personal nostalgia, nor the vast software library, books, magazines, or a huge community dedicated to a genuine classic machine. It's an excellent design, but it's just isn't an "authentic" retro computer.
@@a4000t It's not really re-inventing the wheel, it's improving on the wheel. Guitars have been around since the 15th century. Modern guitars are built on the same principals, but with newer, better materials and enhancements that do not draw away from it's basic design. The Amiga and the Atari ST were great machines, however they are a branch in evolution to the 68000 series cpu. A Foenix is still an 8 bit (6502) hobbyist system, but with enhancements that do not draw away from it's 8 bit nature. In the guitar analogy, the Foenix is still an acoustic guitar, but this time it's made of carbon fiber and stays in tune better.
@@timmooney7528 The problem is the code for this machine will not run on say... C64,TI,atari etc. its a niche machine unlike a guitar which will play ANY song. These machines break people off from supporting a common platform and pushing it farther.. there must be a dozens of 6502 new tangents. Better materials? most old machines have been running 30+ years now, new stuff is not more reliable necessarily. the 68020,30,40,60 were logical progressions on updated cpus, they still can run 68000 code. you analogy's don't work.
@@a4000t Not all vintage hardware is reliable or available. Older systems suffer from bad caps, bursting Varta batteries, and defective IC's that are no longer made. A hobbyist system does not have to be a replica or emulate an existing system to be popular. As a platform gets adopted, it's development community will grow.
I like it even the Price between 576 Dollar for the minimum System and 1004 Dollar for everything made it more like a Dev Version. A normal Consumer Version could be Sucessfull if it has more Software, Converterfor old Software and a Price around 300 Dollar like the C64 Maxi.
Why this plaform did not get enough attention? Price? Seems the Commander X16 was already done before the project started... There is too much fragmentation in the 6502 and z80 retrocomputing scene. We needed about two options for each CPU with some upgraded clock, ram, video & sound putting on some sort of late 80s or early 90s scenario when the PC evolved into gaming. Thats it.
At 5:58 .. "To connect or disconnect the device, always hold the plug. NEVER pull from the cable, Christian" 🥺....... No.. wait I'm writing it wrong.. it should be "naitsorhC ,elbac eht morf llup REVEN .gulp eht dloh syawla ,ecived eht tcennocsid ro tcennoc oT"🤯
Stuff like seeing you accidentally stroke the case of the drive gives me 2nd hand nostalgia - there wasn't a huge 8 bit computer presence here in Australia, but if I had one I would have loved it.
What would definitely help sell this computer is getting a music composer program on it - with MIDI capabilities. Lots of retro loving musicians will love to use it as a retro synth instrument. Me included.
I'm not that interested in modern retro computers, but dual sid and opl3 sounds really interesting. Could be very fun to have such a machine with some very easy to use music programs.
Just a quick (almost insignificant) note is that WDC (the manufacurer of the CPU) is not Western Digital (abbreviated WD) it is "Western DESIGN Center" (abbreviated WDC).
Practical Computer Beginnings? Precision Conforms Brilliantly? Print C Basic? Passionate Celebratory Builds? Just a few MORE PCB ideas for this one? LOL.
Here's a great 3D Printer project: those two exposed ports on the bottom just cry out for dust covers. "The updater runs on Windows," My question is, Windows What? What is the minimum spec needed for updating. (I'm not setting up WIndows 10 if XP will do...) Would be nice if the updater was available in a Linux port... (are sources available for the updater?) The price of the system as it stands seems a barrier to wider adoption. Is there going to be a kit option? I mean, $499.00 with a discount code? That can buy you a laptop or high-end tablet these days, and that cost is without the floppy drive if I read it rightly. Bringing down the cost of the machine has to become priority no. 1. I love the product design of the Foenix, and it has neat capabilities, but can't see it in my present situation.
The ports on those things always make me laugh. "Here is an input for an 80's games console controller, and next to it is an 8k HDMI 60fps output. Under here you can move these hardware switches for basic bios control, right next to the 1tb SD card".
That's the idea behind retro (rather than vintage) - it works like an 80s device but with modern conveniences. People buy SD card readers for their C64s because maintaining cassette tape drives is a pain... people make HD mods for the Apple ][ since using a real 80s CRT is a pain... So you're right: retro devices have what we love about 80s design (the human-comprehensible CPU) without the pain-in-the-neck stuff.
First time I am tuning into one of your videos. I really enjoyed this one! Very neat little unit. The Knight Rider car is also very cool. I hope you can invite your sister Marie Osmond to join you in the next one! Merry Christmas
That case is gorgeous and the cartridge is cute as hell. What I would love is for someone to do this with the MiSTer FPGA. Let it be a MiSTer but with a frontend that makes it primarily a Commodore leaning machine like the Foenix--6502, SIDs, 4x Atari 9 pin DIN joysticks. The SD card slot is great. An option for HDMI & VGA would be ideal. Perhaps the DVI to HDMI with the Foenix looks really good. I've put a stop on my vintage computer collecting. I've got my favorite machines and then a MiSTer to cover the rest. Walls & shelves of cartridges & computers really messes with my zen.
I really like the styling of the F256K. I mean really like it. I like the support behind the X16. I preordered the X16 and will likely keep it but I am disappointed in no native HDMI and no case at launch. I wish they had been able to do a joint product as i think they did talk early on but I get it. Different design philosophies. If money permits, I might have to get both. Strange that I have nostalgia for the C64 when I had the Atari 800XL and the Atari 1040ST. Perifractic, I wish I could show you the code sometime where I made my Atari ST become a real oscilloscope for my EE senior project. It was written in GFA Basic and had an assembly language call for quicker A/D bidirectional parallel port reads.
Great little PC ; hats off to Stephanie! So it has both a standard DOS mode (like the old IBM PCs) and a BASIC mode like we had on the C64 to write our own programs and save to disk? Can you run / play old Dos games in the DOS mode off a floppy?
That intro was the best thing in the history of everything! ... Except possibly the original Knight Rider 😂 Red on blue normally seems to wobble. It's because human eyes respond faster to blue light than red.
Very interesting system! From my zx-spectrum background this thing is a beast. 48K of memory felt limiting, yet already allowed many great games with enough content for hour and hours of gameplay (especially with procedural generation). 256K would allow allmost anything from a gamedesign standpoint beside VR and video playback. I bet such a machine can perform 80% of today's gadgets tasks with proper software. It just requires critical mass of developers.
Thanks for watching! Ready for a behind-the-scenes ЯR experience? 👾 Check out Retro Recipes PowerUp! 🚀 perifractic.com/powerup 📼 Dive into bonus videos, get an early start on main vids, jam out to ЯR music, see your name in lights & more! ✨ By supporting the heart and soul of ЯR you help us keep the channel & nostalgia alive 🙌
At 5:58 .. "To connect or disconnect the device, always hold the plug. NEVER pull from the cable, Christian" 🥺....+... No.. wait I'm writing it wrong.. it should be "naitsorhC ,elbac eht morf llup REVEN .gulp eht dloh syawla ,ecived eht tcennocsid ro tcennoc oT"🤯 +
Nice work !
Love your videos Peri,you take me back to the 80's.I would like to know if you are going to do any more videos on your KITT car please.
@@BrianKitching-wv5nh Thanks! Absolutely, I have several major videos planned for KITT, and KITTesla. One day KITT will be fully EV and fully self-driving. Believe it or not that it possible. Stay tuned!
@retro recipes. Have you considered sampling the engine sound of K.I.T.T. and installing a few outdoor speakers and a mini sub under the car so it sounds like K.I.T.T aswell? It's something I've thought about doing to my car although I can not afford a replica. But I'm cough cough K.I.T.T. ing out my own car I'm rebuilding I've built by own scanner ect. I first used to think of this when I played with my air wolf toys I recorded it from TV and used to play it back😂 oh the things we used to do when we were kids. I loved the 80's as you had to use your imagination all the time nowadays there is a app for everything😂😂. Kind of sad though, great video again fella👍👍👍👍 looks good kind of a commadore 64 with a actual decent colour pallet. I just bought 50 joysticks I got very cheap so going through them and reconditioning them. I god alot of decent ones some bad and some of the absolutely ugly😂 best thing about these machines is programmers will have to learn the machines and how to push them further and further, which for me is exciting, it's what is missing from modern games they are all samey not much imagination, nowadays people just rely on raw power they don't seem to find ways to optimize and try new graphics techniques they rely on epic or unity we need to get cough cough back to basic😂 or machine programming.
I'm the one who ported the mandelbrot algorithm presented in its wiki page to the F256K. It's using slow real number multiplication and divisions and could be significantly sped up using floating point numbers in assembly, but my 6502-fu is not high enough. I was an early 2023 adopter of this machine and mandel.bas helped me identify a marginal instability in my machine, which led to more stable vicky firmwares!
Super cool!!! Very well done!
I would use fixed-point instead personally =)
👌 Well done, have fun with it!
As you of course know, but others might not, I did a Mandelbrot render on a '816 equipped F256 that uses the hardware integer multiplier and completes the initial screen in 27 seconds. The platform is seriously powerful for 8 bit.
@@csoren73 I installed BASIC on a £4 Raspberry Pico and ran the Mandlebrot. It was not a case of how many seconds to produce one but how many per second. I added a GOTO 10 at the end of the program and the Mandlebrots were flying up the screen so fast it created a strange animated strobing effect.
Oh your videos make these dark, cold UK Saturday evenings so much more joyful!
🙌
My first thought as you talked about the Foenix and Commander X16 was "if there was a good guide to how to program in depth, I'd probably buy it." It being either one. I'll check out the Foenix material, the tutorial. When I was a kid in 1982 I begged for an Atari 400 so I could learn to program my own games. It was beyond me as a youngster to find the material I needed to really learn. Today I program on Linux as a hobby but I'd absolutely love to do assembly and C programming on a retro 8 bit computer. And I think kids with the right temperament would find the computer fascinating. With Linux, Windows, and Mac you can't get down into the metal. The Foenix looks like a computer you can really dig into! Not owning a Windows machine, I hope there are ways Linux can support a Foenix computer! This looks very exciting.
I am the one who did the little balls demo. The F256 has 64 hardware sprites, the demo displays 280 sprites multiplexed using 44 hardware sprites. It uses roughly half the CPU time, leaving some room for game logic.
Oh wow that's more than I thought! I snuck a "+" after 128 as we suspected it was more. Well done!
woah 64 hw sprites :O close to neo geo :D
@@Starredmediasoft The NeoGeo has way more sprites, but the F256 has 3 tile map layers and two 256 color bitmaps. They're probably about equal in graphics power, even if they use different means to get there.
Thanks for putting some lights on this project. I love to see all those retro systems coming alive in our modern era, there is indeed room for more retro computers :)
My heart warms whenever I see new hardware or software being released, for everything from the Atari 2600 to the ZX Spectrum to the C64 and Amiga and more. One question: If it has 512K of RAM, why did you call it the "F256K" instead of the "F512K"?
@@JustWasted3HoursHere 256 colors at once on screen hence the F256K. The K means Keyboard included, to contrast it with the F256Jr. There's 512K RAM, 512K Flash. Either are expandable to an additional 256K through a cartridge, but not both at the same time.
@@anybitfeverdreamsHmm... Should have called it the K256F instead, or the F512K since the dual 512K RAM/Flash are its major feature. But hey, the developer reserves first rights to call their creation whatever they want. Could have been the "Poopy Pants 3000"! LOL.
So very happy that you reviewed this product and *why* you reviewed it. I've been considering it for a few months and your video helped me take the plunge. Supporting less well-known entrepreneurs and increeasing the diversity of product in this niche market is a worthwhile cause. Thank you again for the review.
🙌
Dual SID and OPL, I can’t be the only one excited to see tracker software running on this computer!
don't forget a pulse signal generator for an extra square wave crunchy goodness, from the beatrix FPGA as well, on top of the rest!
I really want one now, if only to learn how to generate crisp, brain scrambling bass tones
A dual SID gives how many monophonic voices? 16?
I'm guessing the dual chip is a simple way to do stereo with a left and right chip.
@@stevebuckley7788 I thought SID had three channels? So 6 in total? Or am I wrong?
@@stevebuckley7788 I think it's only 3 for the SID chip. The OPL3 can do up to 18 with simple "channel on/off" stereo, and quad-channel output (though as far as I know only the Resound card actually exposes the rear two)..
Awesome of you to promote this computer. I hope it helps Stefany sell more. I hope to get one myself.
You typed out that program as fast as any hacker on a TV in the 80's well done!
Sat in my workshop, can't feel my hands, but had to watch this uninterrupted, and I'm in absolute awe at this beautiful computer. What an amazing build!
Wish I could afford one, it looks spectacular!
Know that cold feeling. Normally I can use my garage in UK between March and September. This year was good until early November. It is the only place on the house that the Mrs allows me create mess. So therapeutic :-) My creative space.
What you use yours for?
@@stephenhookings1985 same here! Haha, sheer stubbornness keeps me down here in the winter 🤣
It's my space for tinkering with old electronics, carburettors, and doing an awful job playing around with synthesizers! Haha
And of course, watching Retro Recipes the entire time!!
I’d heard of the Foenix before, but never really investigated further. After watching this, I gotta say, this looks really enticing. A compact retro solution with a real mechanical keyboard, real 6502 processor, and a lot of nice features. Even an option to play with alternate processors. Very tempted to support this.
Dewit!
I am very honored Stephany reached out to me for the stickers & badges. Awesome machine indeed! I think I will grab a 1591 as soon as it’s available again 👍😎
There he is - the man himself! 🙌 Nice work!
Surprisingly few comments about the intro...it's probably the coolest intro to a gadget review video that I've ever seen.
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹
I'm about to release a wifi module build-and-setup video soon for my F256K. Still early days , but there's a project to rally the troops for it. There are 2 online servers that you can test it with for now.
Excellent! Aren't writing any BBS software by any chance are you? 😅
@@RetroRecipes I'm not up to that level of coding heroism but I'm game to make a quick and nasty game client if coached a bit. In any case, the video is now up in anybit FD!
Norman (beethead) has a bunch more game prototypes (ALL with headbanging sid tunes), there's also a cute basic sprite and tilemap editor (from Enrnesto) and various other projects slowly but surely advancing. More fresh blood is the way to go in any case!
If you can, can you explain why games written in assembly can't run off the sd card? To me, that's a big problem. You should be able to load any program from SD card and run it. You seem to be part of the f256 community. Please tell those in charge that this has to get fixed!
@@darksword1 You absolutely can run them off the SD card. As was shown with balls.pgz, the programmer needs to prepare a executable in the PGZ format, which rests in several pieces in RAM (code somewhere, sprites, bitmaps elsewhere, etc). As long as a developper is still working on a given project in WIP mode, it's faster to send new iterations with the mini-USB cable straight up into RAM. For sharing to others, of course the PGZ route makes more sense. But here comes an important step - deciding that the project is finished "enough" to prep it for release! :D The people finally adopting the PGZ scheme is rising.
On top of it all, the python scripts recently added support for sending over files through the mini-usb directly to the SD card sitting in the F256K, removing the need to do the whole dance of eject-write to from modern machine-reinsert back.
@@darksword1assembling into a runnable pgz is doable now. They are being used more often as time goes on when something is ready for release or for sharing out. The balls demo in the video was assembled that way. Using bin files sent to ram is popular while the dev is in wip mode and wants to test iterations.
Wow just wow. What a project!
In Which Rules the Night game, if you press the number keys 1-9 or 1-0 (I forget), it plays different SID tunes. Built-in jukebox!
Yup! I didn't know that way but was achieving the same by going into Instructions then back out :D
Love the Jumpman logo on the PCB!
I ordered one with the disk drive !!
It is a cool project for sure - thanks for giving it a more public platform. I'm sure Stephany will be very responsive to the feedback from this video, too - this is definitely a passion project. The CX16's emulator really factored into the platform's software development success, so a smoothly-operating high-fidelity Foenix emulator should be high-priority. That, and give the users flexibility to configure the machine's personality (i.e. default colour combinations, which might be possible today, but wasn't covered in the video). The form factor is definitely nostalgic, and might be the reason for many to buy it (like me!).
As an aside - any chance p-code compilers (thinking of Blitz) are in the pipeline?
Thx for a great video, Perifractic!!
My pleasure Jody, and thank you for the ongoing support! 🙌
Good news! There are actually two excellent emulators for the F256, written by two different Foenix community members.
Hey, a nominal doppelganger.
It isn't a Western Digital processor... It's a WDC or Western Design Center. The 65C02 and the 65C816 processors were pretty much designed by a single genius by the name of Bill Mensch. WDC is often confused with WD :-)
Well, it is digital ;-)
@@RetroRecipes I used to mix those companies up all the time. It is interesting that the Acorn team visited the Western Design Center when they were looking to assemble a team to design the ARM processor. Upon getting Bill and discovering that he had basically designed the 65816 by himself, they returned home having decided to design the ARM in house and they succeeded very well. I love your content good sir.
A "single" genius? You are kinda shafting Chuck Peddle here considering Mensch worked under him in creating the 6502 which was the basis for the 2 processors in question! Bill is an amazing brilliant chip designer, but credit where credit is due. 😀
I didn't mean to disrespect Chuck. I actually bought that Kim 1 when it first came out... I was a kid... I guess I should have pointed out the features I was referring to was the buss error mechanism that Bill pioneered... Interestingly Bill said that the ARM team was the only people to ever ask about that mechanism, but no I Apologize for the way that sounded... Chuck was actually the only reason that I was able to afford a computer back then, having created the NMOS 6502 that sold for $25 (or was it $20... It's been a long time). Sorry Chuck... I seem to recall that my original ceramic 6502 had an issue with one of the rotate instructions but Chuck fixed that rather quickly
@@retroatx No problem. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. You most definately respect Chuck, and if you were OG enough to have purchased a KIM-1 I salute you. I was a snot-nosed kid when the 6502 and KIM-1 were released!
(and it was $25 a chip. Absolutely insane price.)
Dope product. It definitely needs more programs. The Asteroids game was fantastic. Love the retro! Bravo to all! Hope this thing takes off. Thanks RR for the spotlight on this product!
It's a great machine, and she has other interesting machines as well. What really got me interested in this one was the disk drive. It's neat and all that the X16 can make use of an old commodore drive, but there's something really compelling about a new production, commodore compatible one being on the market. My X16 is on order, and once I've gotten to grips with that one after it comes, I'm sure I'll be buying a Foenix as well.
And I do look forward to the BBS.
Yes this would make a great disk drive for the X16!
@@RetroRecipes Indeed. Having a shareable 3.5" drive for two new production retrocomputers is honestly a bit of a mercy, I think!
Not as retro as that computer but I wanted to let you know that I am doing my bit for keeping older tech alive. My Dad found an old laptop left on his bin and decided to take it in. I found that the operating system was incomplete (vista) so I installed a copy of windows 7 and have been happily using the old ASUS laptop to write a book about time travel! I feel it was like giving an old dog a new home where it has been loved again. Hardware is only too old when it can’t do what you want it to do. For me this laptop running word is perfect for taking time to write a book. Screen good, battery good, keyboard good. Love the channel!
Nice work!
For actually writing text, as opposed to detailed final layouts, adding pictures and printing etc, an old, simple machine is exceedingly useful. A proper text editor or really old school word processor is ideal. Sometimes you don't want to be distracted by the Web, TH-cam, reading emails or chatting on social media. You just want to sit down and get things written. The fine details can be added at the end in the latest and greatest word processor on a multi GHz computer. 😁
Man, what a brilliant intro, it absolutely blew me away (and made me realize that I really need to order the Knight Rider DVD box)!
The Foenix is a great machine, I'm in favor of the 6502, so this config is exactly my cup of tea. Love the idea of the 1591 disk drive with 1581 compatibility. As a kid I wanted one, but they where to expensive, and they still are, even if you want to buy one of the aftermarket boards. But this combo, damn, I need to put it on my wishlist, it ticks all the right boxes: Keyboard, design, usability...
Hey old ZZ here. Awesome coverage of this amazing machine. Good job, KnightFractic! I received my F256k on Friday and am looking forward to using it and possibly porting some of my old BASIC stuff to it from the C64. But agree, this thing needs some major love with software support, documentation and more information.
This would have been a computer I would have loved to have back in the C-64 days... I just wished I had time to play around with this cool machine. I hope it does well, and very much is reminiscent of the computer competition days in the 1970's - 1990's a time that I look back fondly and glad to see that there's interest in the home/hobby computing market.
This is a great video. And hats off for highlighting another machine.
After rewatching, I’m really thinking about buying the F256. It’s a really fascinating machine.
I love this kind of video, Peri. Thank you, so much. And I adore this machine - she's really ticked all the retro/nostalgia boxes for me with the design, functionality and esthetics. It's definitely on the short list for acquisition for me and possibly a platform I'd like to develop for. Thank you for sharing this 2nd Foenix video with us and I look forward to more.
I LOVE the jump man logo on the board… spent SOOOOOOOO long perfecting my time back in the day…
Very nobel move from you to feature smaller creators even competitors to your "own" projects, Perifractic. There is room for everybody. So many new systems to choose from nowadays. On the one hand a very good thing on the other hand, even if you buy them all, you won't use them on regular basis, besides the systems we already have nostalgic feelings for which already consume a decent amount of time.
Absolutely! The more the merrier, and competition breeds great developments and evolutions
Well said! ❤
I agree about the clout of David for X16. Not just this project but also Agon Light, would benefit from that kind of clout. Agon has begun networking with other TH-camrs
Uh Oh Dave's Commander 16 has some retro compition. The 80's are back baby!
Looking forward to having “my micro is better than yours” style 8-bit flame wars again among the Foenix, the X16, the Mega65 and Spectrum Next owners
@little_fluffy_clouds Being a kid in the 70's and 80's those computer/console wars were great.
I love watching those comparison video showing te same game over lime 10 to 20 diffrent platforms. Those videos make ypu realize that it comes down to how good the programmer was.
Stefanie is a genius and her creations are hands down impressive. She does have the exposure issue yes, another issue is competition, there's the Commander X16, the Mega 65, actual legacy hardware (still a sizeable amount of actual C64's out there, and Apple II's, etc.) and other "new retro" hardware.
But the external competition aside, she also has a competition problem with herself.
She has made so many different machines, and even this one machine has so many configurable options (3 processor options being the main one, but secondarily memory upgrade options), where does one start?
Her price points are challenging as well. $600 is a lot to lay out on a single hobby computer. edit: she's not alone here, the Mega 65 and a properly configured CX16 are in the same ball park.
Also a bit of an aside: I find her website a bit challenging. For example, on the product's info page, why isn't the price listed there and an order button? Why is the info and shopping separated? It shouldn't be.
This is a beautiful machine, an excellent retro computer, well designed and well built... a true labour of love. But even the cheapest version is very expensive. I understand why it is expensive, it takes a lot of time and hard work, there's small scale production and it's a bespoke platform. It's difficult to justify spending that much money on a luxury that may not actually get a lot of use. It isn't a recreation of any particular platform, so it has no specific nostalgia, no big software library and no selection of books and old magazines to teach and entertain. I'm glad it exists, and I really hope it's a roaring success. 👍
There's also the Spectrum Next, which has a growing games library with some high-quality titles (it's hard to get one, but there are clones available, and they are relatively cheap).
Yeah, personally I feel like she loves creating hardware and that's cool, but as a possible buyer, I want to get a platform that I know is going to get all the love, and I feel like she is focused on too many things.
That, the lack of community and the high price is what makes me hesitant to buy one at the moment.
This all comes back to a point I've been making since "forever" :) - retro-style computers that are solutions in search of a problem.
@@espressomaticwell, yes, in fact all 8-bit computers are just niche hobbyist products now. If you think about it, no layperson would buy an 8-bit home computer in 2024 for any practical purpose, they’re just for us enthusiast tinkerers
Because it costs US$575.88, but hasn't reached what could be considered to be an adequate user base to provide guaranteed hardware longevity and widespread community support? At least that's what's holding me back. Same with the Commander X16. Neither have what I'd consider "critical mass" yet. I'd buy a much cheaper Agon, but it sucks for game programming.
I'd MUCH rather see cheap Android TV boxes using Amlogic SoCs converted via a booted SD card into a programmable game system instead of emulation boxes for console and arcade ROMS as many are currently used. Their SoCs obviously have adequate graphics and sound capabilities as indicated by their game emulation capabilities.
glad finally you have the real kitt. its the best fitting car for you! :) true dedication :) also what an awesome new intro! :)
Glad you like it!
In my opinion, this computer beats the X16 in every way. Including price if you buy the Foenix jr version, which has all the functionality as far as I can tell but doesn't come in the fancy case. You provide your own mini ITX case (which I prefer honestly).
Could you be more specific, in what way it beats X16?
Fun fact: Stefany Allaire originally designed the Foenix as an answer to The 8-Bit Guy's video about his dream computer, but he rejected her design due to the use of an FPGA. (He then later used an FPGA in the X16 anyway - in the video component, same place the Foenix uses one.) He mentions her in his second "Dream computer" video.
@@johnchowseymour Spreading lies should be severely punished by YT!!! In one short paragraph you said couple of lies:
1. Foenix was designed as an 8bit request for a dream computer, not to a video.
When the first video came, that project had already started.
2. He rejected that project - primarily because of the cost, not FPGA.
3. "FPGA ... same place " - Foenix started with 3 FPGAs. X16 started and since then is with only one.
4. "He mentions her in his second "Dream computer" video" - another lie!
P.S. I call YT moderators to ban that account for intentional spreading lies and undermining authority of the The 8-Bit Guy!
REPORTED!
@@SquallSf, ah, I apologize for misremembering which video it was - you're right, he mentions Stefany in his first video, not his second. This also means that, as you point out, she knew about it before his first video came out (he says they talked about it at a retro gaming expo). Thanks for clarifying!
@@SquallSf It meets all the design requirements for the original X16 concept, while also having better sound, better video, and being cheaper.
I like the 8 bit guy and I like the X16... but if I were only to buy one computer, this one would be the one I would buy.
Such a beautiful and stunning machine! I would love to have one but it's way out of my price range, at least for now 😢
don't you just love how his retro computer drives better then a tesla auto pilot?🤣🤣🤣
I prefer this design over the X16 because of the "wedge" enclosure and the 9-pin joystick support.
The design of the two games are really professional-looking.
If I could afford to have all the retro machines that I want, I would buy one but as at the moment I can have only one, I am going for the Mega65 which has the C64 compatibility.
There seems to be a $75 USD rebate on F256K purchases right now until December 5th - I don't know if I missed it in your video (I was interrupted a bunch of times while watching...) but that'd be a cool thing to add as a pinned post on top of your note in the description!
Yup the discount code "perifractic" is on screen for a while, and is in the description. That gets you the $75 off :) [not sponsored/not an affiliate link]
Good to see your channel is growing
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹
As someone excited to get my hands on a Spectrum Next 2 here soon, I agree that there is more than enough room for a few of these amazing lil retro compys. I just wish someone would do a Tandy/TRS CoCo modernized version.
Well there is agroup supporting Os/9 in the Foenix Community with this hardware, since one of the CPUs supported is the 6809. They even have Nethack running on it now..
A true classic-style Retro Recipes computer video! Complete with RR, C.S. music! The Foenix looks fun. It’s out of my personal scope but I can see droves of fans buying it and having fun as new software becomes available OR maybe some of those clever buyers (more clever than I in the Retro computing arena 😉) will become the new program writers for the Foenix! I’d love to see occasional updates on this on RR. 😎
Yeah it's been a while since I have done a pure ЯR computer video in this style, and the good thing is it made me miss it! I'll definitely try to revisit this computer. Cheers Doc!
@@RetroRecipescheers to you four as well! 😄
Halfway through so far but I want to get this out before I forget to. The WDC that makes the 6502 these days is Western Design Center not Western Digital
Ah, good catch.
All it needs is excellently suitable development software - Cross platform C compiler, Macro Assembler, source editor. Actually, a suite of office productivity software and printer support would make it even more attractive. Anything to make it fun & interesting to use. Graphics program with sprite and font design, music sequencer, etc. The tools to make software.
That default text color really needs to be brighter.
So basically, what you are looking for is something that can play old style games and do basic productivity work, attaches to a modern printer and that also happens to have a decent set of modern programming tools to create fun programs. Well, it definitely exists... it's called a PC, or an Apple computer. Or even a Raspberry Pi. Examples of each can be picked up for less money than this computer. It really doesn't sound like you actually want an 8 bit machine.
Now I need this as well :D Thanx! Also. glad to see this format of your videos are back. These kinds of videos are my favorites of all your great content :)
Thanks! I will always make these kind of videos in the retro themed mix 👍🕹
An interesting video - there is potential there, and always fun to see another 8-bit related project. The music aspect is particularly cool. Having multiple systems able to access the disk drive is clever too.
I not only love that this market exists, I also love that there are options. And really, I hope more get developed in the future. Even with lack of exposure. After all, if it takes work just to learn of its existence, then odds are, it's probably going to be pretty cool.
I remember talking to Stephany on her forum back when she was designing this machine. So glad it's finally seeing daylight!
I have a feeling that retro enjoyers aren't in the business of having only one system. F256K looks awesome, and side-loading from desktop would be my ideal work-flow. I don't want to go back to 40/80 column mode, and miss out on the productivity of newer dev environments, the code still needs to run on retro hardware, so it still presents the challenge. Bonus points for having built-in flash ROM programmer!
Amazing! Thank you for showing it to us.
What a beautiful computer. I hope it gets good sales and support.
Me too.
I will definitely take one of those disk drives, a 1581 clone would be a hot seller if it could come in at a decent price point because real 1581's are getting very expensive, and they are getting quite old too.
For me, calling telnet BBSs is my #1 need in modern retro computer. That also requires a terminal program with hopefully 40 and 80 column support, Ascii, Ansi, Petscii support etc. Unfortunately projects like Mega 65, Commander x16 etc that isn't possible yet either due to no software or wifi. So I stick to the c128 for that for now. BBSs are due a comeback for various reasons.
The other great use for new retro hardware, which would probably reach a larger audience than just retro tinkerers, is audio. The f256 with dual SIDs and OPL3 would be a chiptune powerhouse with proper tracker software and a MIDI cartridge (to at least sync midi clock to external gear). Or maybe a cartridge like the MSSIAH for c64. Paired with an output expander to add more audio outs for external processing, would really make it an in-demand unit.
My hope is a BBS hosting program materialises for this or is ported to it 🤞
I just stumbled upon this video, loved the start! - well made. Enjoyed it!
Thank you!!
Looks really nice, but, just like the X16 and the Console8, so expensive! I watch these and am always reminded of the short sequence towards the start of the great film “Micro Men”, where Sir Clive Sinclair (Alexander Armstrong) is paging through computer magazines while contemplating (what would become) the ZX80 and says to himself “so expensive……but why so expensive?”.
Uzebox got the pricing right, if they’d only had a real Z80 or 6502 in there, and a few other bits like VGA output and keyboard support, they’d have really been onto something IMHO, the games for it are leagues ahead of the other options which cost orders of magnitude more.
The C65 even more expensive. The ZX Spectrum Next also got the price point right.
@@magicknight8412I've got a KS2 Next on the way, hopefully, but even that isn't the right price point IMHO, £300, Sinclair did it back in the 80's for £125 (in a cave...with a bunch of scraps!). For something like this to work and establish a thriving software ecosystem, it has to be available for throwaway money, £100 or less, then it would appeal to the nostalgic and the new retro-fan alike. I'd happily create games for something like that all day. This is all good fun for the hobbyist, but the audience is limited. The Atari 2600+ is as close as I've seen, but suffers with some major issues. Firstly, it's a little "too retro" if that's a thing, it'll appeal definitely to those who had the 2600 as their first game console, but not to any kind of new audience, just a little too limited. Secondly, it uses emulation, which is a copout. Thirdly, it doesn't appear to be easy to develop for. The Speccy/C64/Amstrad/Dragon32/Atari/Apple all solved these problems, albeit most at too high a price. Today, it should be possible to create something that is small, simple, cheap and open. Simple enough for anyone to understand, open enough for anyone to develop for, and cheap enough that everyone (even the man on the Clapham omnibus) will want one.
I never tire of the background music you created. Rob Hubbard would be proud.
Why is the red/purple text on that blue background so blurry? I know you mentioned about being color blind, but I can take the same colors into Photoshop, and type text in that red/purple color on that same blue background, and it's crisp and clear, easy to read. 9:22 in the video, that text is extremely blurry, however. All the other text appears crisp and clean, just not that red/purple color.
That then is a good question
Loved my Quikshot 2 Turbo - sturdy and plenty of triggers.
Something about this form factor just really hits the nostalgic chords right.
Right?! I love it.
Great review and video. NitrOS-9 (OS-9) Level 1 and 2 are running on the F256 Jr. with the FNX6809. I'm looking for motivated folks to expand the software and demo program offerings on that side of the table.
Hello, yes I have that Red/Green problem too. Along with Blue/Purple and more. Anyway yes it was hard for me to read too. So yes the struggle is real. Great video. Watching these really brings me back to the 80's and exploring computers and all the new tech at the time. Yes that click you get when inserting the cartridge is so pleasing. I miss all the clicking of buttons and switches.
Finally a video about retro tech (well, almost)! I've really missed them.
I'll always do them :-)
I really like this project, Stefany made something really cool!
I really hope this will succeed in the market, although it's above my budget.
Fantastic!
Greetings from the Netherlands!
This channel is only 5 years old? Feels like it was 10 years ago that i saw the lego commodore 64 videos...
Yup, started uploading in 2018 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But thanks for watching for a decade :D
Great to see new retro / 8 bit machines such as this Foenix F256K, and others such as Commander X16, Mega 65, and many others. Also want to recognize the other C64 developers such a EVO64, C64 Reloaded MK2, Ultimate 64, Sixtyclone C64, Bwack C64, etc and it's great to see so many choices on the existing C64 platform. Personally I own a C64 Reloaded MK2 and an original C64c and I am quite happy with these and not in the market for new hardware at this time but still great to see all of these other projects. Peace!
Don't think I don't notice the Padoru and Pusheen in the background.
Love seeing people build new retro computers today. It's funny that we have many, many, many times more CPU horsepower in the controllers that sit inside our MicroSD memory than the 6502 that powered our old machines (same for an army of other peripherals you'd find in a modern PC) yet these machines bring back a time when it wasn't just buying the latest CPU or GPU but actually creating something on your computer that you could show off and share with friends. I miss the old atari users group days, tho admittedly it was maybe 20% showing off cool stuff and 80% copying disks with the guy that brought two floppy drives with his Atari 130xe.
I like that it's not a Commodore or an X16.
You are right there is room for multiple retro systems.
Just like there is room for a Commodore and an Atari in the same house.
If she doesn't mind a little criticism: I'd get rid of the Mini USB for either a USBA or USBC, just because people have tons of those around if they needed a spare.
For my money, I only have a single mini USB cable that I am aware of in my house. But I got A's and C's to beat the band. I also have micro USB, but I wouldn't recommend that.
Please lose the DVI and go HDMI or DP.
Mind you, these wouldn't stop me from buying one, but it would be less frustrating.
Pluses are definitely the drive support (as well as the custom drive! Have you seen how much 1581's go for these days?) and the cartridge port! Though if we are going yo rely on the ram cart, definitely consider a port expander.
The controller port selection is great as well! There are a lot of good 9 pin controllers out there (Atari/Commodore, Sega, Hyperkin Trooper/Ranger, those Retrogameboyz NES-like gamepads) so plenty of action!
Hope to see more of this system.
Just to add to this, I think usb-c is a more robust connector physically as well. Not sure of the price differences, but if there's not much of a gap, then a c connector would be great. DVI has the ability to do both analog and digital out, while DP/HDMI are digital only IIRC. That might be the technical reason for going with the DVI connector (you could have an hdmi->analog converter if you wanted to use it on a CRT, not sure if that'd add latency though).
HDMI requires licencing, which is apparently quite expensive. That tends to put it out of reach of many smaller scale projects. I believe that there are still more DVi equipped TVs and monitors than there are DP ones. But you can buy cheap conversion cables for most DP equipped devices, so probably not a big deal.
An A-type would be a very strange choice for an input, as A-to-A is against the USB design philosophy - should always be A to one of the B types, although the new C type will probably change this someday, that hasn't become the norm yet. The most common type of USB cable in my house is either A to Mini-B or A to Micro-B. I have only one USB C cable which I bought for an audio interface that only had a C port. Most of my peripherals still use some type of B, and I think it's a good choice for the Foenix as well.
@@tomcatsdb4755 Yeh, I saw reference to using the DVI port for analog output with a DVI to VGA lead. DVI connectors can support the analog VGA signals as well. The port appears to be a full DVI-I connector capable of carrying analog signals as well. I have cables for DVI to VGA. But does the Feonix actually include analog VGA signals on the DVI connector? Who knows? The website, and even the technical manual don’t seem to document this (or many other aspects of the system). Unfortunate really.
@@gregclare There is DVI-I which is digital only. DVI-D (which is the type of DVI port on this machine), has both. It'd be odd to have a DVI-D connector with essentially dead pins.
Back "in the day" we would've loved to have a home pc like this. It has lots of potential. I would like to see several C-64 classics adapted for the platform.
BITD, we would have thought this was incredible. But machines like the Amiga and Atari ST gave us that massive upgrade. PCs and Macs evolved into monstrously powerful machines. Today, a computer with the power of the Foenix would be laughable, as we all have access to far better hardware. We can emulate those 16 and 32 bit machines with ease, and we could emulate the Foenix too. It wasn't available alongside the Amiga, ST, PC or Mac that we actually upgraded too. It has none of that personal nostalgia, nor the vast software library, books, magazines, or a huge community dedicated to a genuine classic machine. It's an excellent design, but it's just isn't an "authentic" retro computer.
Why reinvent the wheel when we had them. c64,amiga etc.
@@a4000t It's not really re-inventing the wheel, it's improving on the wheel. Guitars have been around since the 15th century. Modern guitars are built on the same principals, but with newer, better materials and enhancements that do not draw away from it's basic design. The Amiga and the Atari ST were great machines, however they are a branch in evolution to the 68000 series cpu. A Foenix is still an 8 bit (6502) hobbyist system, but with enhancements that do not draw away from it's 8 bit nature.
In the guitar analogy, the Foenix is still an acoustic guitar, but this time it's made of carbon fiber and stays in tune better.
@@timmooney7528 The problem is the code for this machine will not run on say... C64,TI,atari etc. its a niche machine unlike a guitar which will play ANY song. These machines break people off from supporting a common platform and pushing it farther.. there must be a dozens of 6502 new tangents. Better materials? most old machines have been running 30+ years now, new stuff is not more reliable necessarily. the 68020,30,40,60 were logical progressions on updated cpus, they still can run 68000 code. you analogy's don't work.
@@a4000t Not all vintage hardware is reliable or available. Older systems suffer from bad caps, bursting Varta batteries, and defective IC's that are no longer made. A hobbyist system does not have to be a replica or emulate an existing system to be popular. As a platform gets adopted, it's development community will grow.
80s computers had ULAs, which were similar in concept to the FPGAs. So I see no problem using FPGAs.
I like it even the Price between 576 Dollar for the minimum System and 1004 Dollar for everything made it more like a Dev Version.
A normal Consumer Version could be Sucessfull if it has more Software, Converterfor old Software and a Price around 300 Dollar like the C64 Maxi.
Why this plaform did not get enough attention? Price? Seems the Commander X16 was already done before the project started...
There is too much fragmentation in the 6502 and z80 retrocomputing scene. We needed about two options for each CPU with some upgraded clock, ram, video & sound putting on some sort of late 80s or early 90s scenario when the PC evolved into gaming. Thats it.
At 5:58 .. "To connect or disconnect the device, always hold the plug. NEVER pull from the cable, Christian" 🥺....... No.. wait I'm writing it wrong.. it should be "naitsorhC ,elbac eht morf llup REVEN .gulp eht dloh syawla ,ecived eht tcennocsid ro tcennoc oT"🤯
Super nice i like the style a lot for this computer :)
27:07
Love the cartridge slot, and floppy drive !
its nice to see the 8 bit compuyet making a come back so many projects like thsi, the x 16.. i seen so many now lol
That music in Cosmic sounds like the music from, I believe, Wolverine on the NES.
Stuff like seeing you accidentally stroke the case of the drive gives me 2nd hand nostalgia - there wasn't a huge 8 bit computer presence here in Australia, but if I had one I would have loved it.
music at 14:00 mind blown
Was the connector of DVI-I soldered, means analog RGB pins in it. The only question if those pins are wired to any schematic providing VGA output
Yes, the DVI does both. He could have used a DVI to DB15 adapter and plugged to a VGA monitor
What would definitely help sell this computer is getting a music composer program on it - with MIDI capabilities. Lots of retro loving musicians will love to use it as a retro synth instrument. Me included.
I'm not that interested in modern retro computers, but dual sid and opl3 sounds really interesting. Could be very fun to have such a machine with some very easy to use music programs.
Looks like an interesting machine. Love the Knight Rider intro
It sure is! And thanks!!
Just a quick (almost insignificant) note is that WDC (the manufacurer of the CPU) is not Western Digital (abbreviated WD) it is "Western DESIGN Center" (abbreviated
WDC).
I'd like to see a video of someone porting an existing programme and comparing the code changes they've had to make.
Practical Computer Beginnings? Precision Conforms Brilliantly? Print C Basic? Passionate Celebratory Builds? Just a few MORE PCB ideas for this one? LOL.
fantastic videos as always!😊
Here's a great 3D Printer project: those two exposed ports on the bottom just cry out for dust covers.
"The updater runs on Windows," My question is, Windows What? What is the minimum spec needed for updating. (I'm not setting up WIndows 10 if XP will do...)
Would be nice if the updater was available in a Linux port... (are sources available for the updater?)
The price of the system as it stands seems a barrier to wider adoption. Is there going to be a kit option? I mean, $499.00 with a discount code? That can buy you a laptop or high-end tablet these days, and that cost is without the floppy drive if I read it rightly. Bringing down the cost of the machine has to become priority no. 1.
I love the product design of the Foenix, and it has neat capabilities, but can't see it in my present situation.
The ports on those things always make me laugh. "Here is an input for an 80's games console controller, and next to it is an 8k HDMI 60fps output. Under here you can move these hardware switches for basic bios control, right next to the 1tb SD card".
That's the idea behind retro (rather than vintage) - it works like an 80s device but with modern conveniences.
People buy SD card readers for their C64s because maintaining cassette tape drives is a pain... people make HD mods for the Apple ][ since using a real 80s CRT is a pain... So you're right: retro devices have what we love about 80s design (the human-comprehensible CPU) without the pain-in-the-neck stuff.
First time I am tuning into one of your videos. I really enjoyed this one! Very neat little unit. The Knight Rider car is also very cool. I hope you can invite your sister Marie Osmond to join you in the next one! Merry Christmas
Im waiting for Q4 2024 to buy the TheA500 Maxi from Retro Games.
That case is gorgeous and the cartridge is cute as hell. What I would love is for someone to do this with the MiSTer FPGA. Let it be a MiSTer but with a frontend that makes it primarily a Commodore leaning machine like the Foenix--6502, SIDs, 4x Atari 9 pin DIN joysticks. The SD card slot is great. An option for HDMI & VGA would be ideal. Perhaps the DVI to HDMI with the Foenix looks really good.
I've put a stop on my vintage computer collecting. I've got my favorite machines and then a MiSTer to cover the rest. Walls & shelves of cartridges & computers really messes with my zen.
Wow looks awesome! Shame it requires windoz. Great video, thanks for sharing.
I really like the styling of the F256K. I mean really like it. I like the support behind the X16. I preordered the X16 and will likely keep it but I am disappointed in no native HDMI and no case at launch. I wish they had been able to do a joint product as i think they did talk early on but I get it. Different design philosophies. If money permits, I might have to get both. Strange that I have nostalgia for the C64 when I had the Atari 800XL and the Atari 1040ST. Perifractic, I wish I could show you the code sometime where I made my Atari ST become a real oscilloscope for my EE senior project. It was written in GFA Basic and had an assembly language call for quicker A/D bidirectional parallel port reads.
Interesting! The Phoenix project I remember was a replacement PCB for the Amiga 1000. Afaik it was invented and made in Australia…
Great little PC ; hats off to Stephanie!
So it has both a standard DOS mode (like the old IBM PCs) and a BASIC mode like we had on the C64 to write our own programs and save to disk? Can you run / play old Dos games in the DOS mode off a floppy?
That intro was the best thing in the history of everything! ... Except possibly the original Knight Rider 😂
Red on blue normally seems to wobble. It's because human eyes respond faster to blue light than red.
Very interesting system! From my zx-spectrum background this thing is a beast. 48K of memory felt limiting, yet already allowed many great games with enough content for hour and hours of gameplay (especially with procedural generation). 256K would allow allmost anything from a gamedesign standpoint beside VR and video playback. I bet such a machine can perform 80% of today's gadgets tasks with proper software. It just requires critical mass of developers.