Mike is not a good educator, that’s why he takes so long, he repeats and over explains the same concepts; whereas professional educators can break what Mike would take 4 hours to explain into 25 minutes if they want to.
In all fairness he tells you, do your own research. You say don't believe him, why should anyone believe you. Its the macho man mentality. Some one ( man) has to be right. Who gets more views. Just turn to the source. Read the Bible you're self.
Which Bible- English or Hebrew and Greek? And through what lens? Jesus who would not discriminate against His daughters or a Genesis 3:16 culture that does?
misogynists had an agenda and made it global when they invented their false misogynistic religions and mistranslated biblical texts to suit their agendas to stay in power over women and control the children's minds by abuse and trauma and indoctrinating them the better word is brainwashing here. They abused the women and children and exploited them for their own greed and selfish gains to stay in power so they could force breed females to create their strong military and worker bee's for their capitalistic businesses and to get the numbers they wanted they had to enslave females to force them to breed by any means they deemed necessary. Without their military they cannot have power over women or anyone else. These Misogynistic religions are all man made traditions of men to stay in power over women and children so they can hoard up all the money and resources and abusing the women and children also profited them by sex trafficking them as well and they had their drugs to make them more compliant and would often get them hooked on drugs to continue to exploit them especially the little ones. Misogynists destroyed the whole world but Jesus is an egalitarian and this is why misogynists cannot explain that because they know their lies are exposed through the lord Jesus Christ.
Great video!!! Looking forward to the rest of the articles from Andrew. I also made a video about why Mike cannot think biblically about it. Its very hard for people to be objective on this topic. If you really want to be egal, you look at the strong arguments and use the sources you trust. That's just not what Mike did.
@@keithbirdwell Hi Keith. We have a FREE audiobook condensation of the 407 page doctoral dissertation on Genesis 2-3. Simply click on the very top bar on Tru316.com. Available now.
@@keithbirdwell no that is misogynists and them standing by their misinterpreted bibles because in their own hearts they want to believe their fantasies and what their itchy ears want to hear by misogynistic preachers such as Winger!
In a nutshell, these guys express jealousy of Mike Winger's reach and accomplishments, impugn his integrity, believe he operates under fleshly, carnal motives, and belittle his research as not worthy of their level of scholarship. I encourage them to spend more time teaching and reaching people than trying to garner clicks by "reacting" to someone with greater online success. It makes them look petty and desperate. Thumbs down.
Ummm…. no. Their critique of Mike Winger is spot on. As someone who has watched all of Mike’s videos but one ( I will start the 11.5 one this week) and who has fact checked the references Mike cites I can tell you that he often mischaracterizes, misunderstands and misrepresents the views of others scholars. Terran Williams and Andrew Bartlett have written extensively about this, and Mike did say at the beginning of his series that he welcomed push back and would respond to scholarly critiques. Mike has since backed away from that early declaration amd refuses to respond to any critique of his series. I find it disappointing that Mike currently is pointing out the errors of Benny Hinn but refuses to respond to those who have pointed out his errors and the egregious comments he has made about egalitarian scholars and authors ( like Aimee Bryd) who disagree with his complementarian stance.
They are jealous? What evidence do you have to arrive at this conclusion? You are the searcher of hearts? That's God's role. Online success is what settles the issue for you? Not Jesus' heart for his daughters? Jesus who would not discriminate against His daughters vs Winger whose position in Calvary Chapel is predicated on his accepting his complementarian stand or he'd be out. Winder who repeatedly used ad hominem attacks in his series, after misunderstanding scholars and who repeatedly said he'd love pushback from scholars but when contacted has declined Mike Davis- Theologian, Bruce Fleming- Theologian, Terran Willams -Scholar, Andrew Bartlett- Theologian, Nick Queint- PhD, New Testament at last count. Where is Winger's integrity- why not dialogue after asking for it and then declining when approached for the same? Also he spoke of the abuse of women in SBC as a peripheral issue- that's how his theology works. Jesus on the other made a difference to the lives of women and called them for many first in the Gospels. Unlike Winger, the Holy Spirit ordained women in the Upper room to preach the Gospel. No restrictions were given. Who do you follow- Holy Spirit or Winger? Mike Winger was approached for a dialogue hy acholars and PhDs coz despite his lengthy series he misundstood sound academic work. But after repeatedly saying that h would "love" to be corrected andcthat hed love "push back", he declined. Paul was not talking about the creation account as the foundation of this passage... It was about 1st degree vs 2nd degree sinner... much insight to be gained from www.tru316.com The creation design is the two shall be one which Jesus repeats in the New Testament. No hierarchy. Early church had female leaders and preachers commissioned by the Holy Spirit and women leaders Romans 16 plus a whole host from history. God does not discriminate. The opposite is a Gen 3 mentality. Read not a few verses out of the cannonical or historical context written to local churches. Read not a few verses while denying the rest of God's word. Read all of Scripture through the eternal standard of the LIVING WORD. Much insight to be gained from Www.tru316.com www.patheos.com/blogs/zackhunt/2014/03/complementarianism-the-churchs-segregation-problem/ Www.tru316.com jamespruch.wordpress.com/let-her-lead/ www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-male-pronouns-dont-exist-in-1-timothy/ terranwilliams.com/the-biblical-case-for-women-in-leadership-and-why-mike-winger-the-gospel-coalition-and-the-southern-baptists-are-wrong-about-this/
Sad. We need to take the KJV version of Line 1 of Genesis 3:16 into account. The Hebrew words do not speak of "pain in childbirth." The Hebrew word for curse is used only twice. Once for the serpent enemy and once for the ground because of the man. More on this on Season One of The Eden Podcast.
No - qualified men as scripture lines out, not old men. Elders and deacons are to be men. Deacons can be joined by their wives in mercy ministry but the wives have qualifications for them both to serve. Women aren’t extended leadership ability on account of the fact they were deceived in the garden… not because they are not able to think, lead or teach. Scripture is clear on this.
@@HusGoose the bible says we see through a glass darkly so the actual truth is not always clear on issues why would God give a brain/mind and heart capable of leading or teaching and then give a command that she cannot? does not make sense. btw, there is an underground church in iran led by women. Why didn't God call a man do to that dangerous job?
@@HusGoose actually scripture says we see through a glass darkly meaning the answers are not always clear when it comes to issues. and why would God give a woman capable of thinking/leading, etc only to bar her from it? makes no sense and how do you explain the underground church in Iran is led by women? Was God not capable of raising up a man to do that dangerous job?
@@susanbarackman-artist7670 because Paul made it quite clear. The “weaker vessel” cannot adequately discern truth from deception. Case in point, this discussion, with you.
The argument against women is not of God so who is behind that thought process? So... Jesus lifted women up and as He's the exact image of the invisible God, God's view of women is correct... So who twists scripture to confuse, hinder and half truth? No one has mentioned the one behind the twist... Doesn't the bible say who is the father of lies? Why isnt the one behind the lie exposed. It seems it's the blind leading the blind in main stream church system, and they can't see truth, so they are in the dark and who lives in the darkness? You guys are amazingly kind towards those who lead astray and hold on bondage to false teaching about the equality of women.
Childbirth would naturally be painful if you think about it? but premature sex with lucifer and each other would definitely cause some bad effects like bring death into the human dna and passing it on to the future offspring. Satan had a child with Eve too. Cain was the child of the devil. It appears Adam teamed up with lucifer to seduce the female into deviant sex acts?
So Mike Winger spirals, makes too long vids, doesn’t research enuf, doesn’t read the right paragraph or footnotes, thinks too californian/American, and worse just doesn’t agree? You’ve lent extremely little actual substance to your criticisms of the man’s argument. I’ll shuffle around in your old vids to see how you represent Fleming’s work, but i’d prefer objective substance over your subjective opinion on another servant’s work. Still… thanks for the vid. I’ll be watching more of your vids.
Feel free to dig in. We have for 30 years. PhD Dissertation of 407 pages at the University of Strasbourg, France (Tru316.com/shop). Man and Woman in Biblical Unity, by Dr. Joy Fleming, (on Amazon and as a free audio book download on top bar of Tru316.com). The Book of Eden, Genesis 2-3, by Bruce C. E. Fleming, 124 pages, as hard copy, eBook on Amazon of as audiobook on Audible.
Loved the first book, Andrew, looking forward to the next (big) one.
Looking forward even more eagerly to the rest of the responses to Mikey.
So, what is the proper translation of this passage? in a nutshell??? I need the 8 page summary. links??
Email Mimi@Tru316.com for the PDF 🙂
4 minutes in "so many things wrong" over and over. I hope you bring receipts in the rest of the video
25 minutes in... Not a single Winger quote...
The details are in terranwilliams.com/articles
Mike posts 4 hour breakdowns and they post a 25 min response.
Mike is not a good educator, that’s why he takes so long, he repeats and over explains the same concepts; whereas professional educators can break what Mike would take 4 hours to explain into 25 minutes if they want to.
That's because they've already responded long ago.
Links to their responses are in the shownotes for the video.
Great interview and talk about Mike Winger!😊👍 Thank you!
In all fairness he tells you, do your own research. You say don't believe him, why should anyone believe you. Its the macho man mentality. Some one ( man) has to be right. Who gets more views. Just turn to the source. Read the Bible you're self.
Which Bible- English or Hebrew and Greek? And through what lens? Jesus who would not discriminate against His daughters or a Genesis 3:16 culture that does?
misogynists had an agenda and made it global when they invented their false misogynistic religions and mistranslated biblical texts to suit their agendas to stay in power over women and control the children's minds by abuse and trauma and indoctrinating them the better word is brainwashing here. They abused the women and children and exploited them for their own greed and selfish gains to stay in power so they could force breed females to create their strong military and worker bee's for their capitalistic businesses and to get the numbers they wanted they had to enslave females to force them to breed by any means they deemed necessary. Without their military they cannot have power over women or anyone else. These Misogynistic religions are all man made traditions of men to stay in power over women and children so they can hoard up all the money and resources and abusing the women and children also profited them by sex trafficking them as well and they had their drugs to make them more compliant and would often get them hooked on drugs to continue to exploit them especially the little ones. Misogynists destroyed the whole world but Jesus is an egalitarian and this is why misogynists cannot explain that because they know their lies are exposed through the lord Jesus Christ.
Great video!!! Looking forward to the rest of the articles from Andrew. I also made a video about why Mike cannot think biblically about it. Its very hard for people to be objective on this topic. If you really want to be egal, you look at the strong arguments and use the sources you trust. That's just not what Mike did.
Here is their link: terramwilliams.com/articles
So basically you be bias. Lol
@@keithbirdwell Hi Keith. We have a FREE audiobook condensation of the 407 page doctoral dissertation on Genesis 2-3. Simply click on the very top bar on Tru316.com. Available now.
@@keithbirdwell no that is misogynists and them standing by their misinterpreted bibles because in their own hearts they want to believe their fantasies and what their itchy ears want to hear by misogynistic preachers such as Winger!
In a nutshell, these guys express jealousy of Mike Winger's reach and accomplishments, impugn his integrity, believe he operates under fleshly, carnal motives, and belittle his research as not worthy of their level of scholarship. I encourage them to spend more time teaching and reaching people than trying to garner clicks by "reacting" to someone with greater online success. It makes them look petty and desperate. Thumbs down.
I don’t agree with any of this at all. It’s almost like we watched different videos.
Ummm…. no.
Their critique of Mike Winger is spot on.
As someone who has watched all of Mike’s videos but one ( I will start the 11.5 one
this week) and who has fact checked the references Mike cites I
can tell you that he often mischaracterizes, misunderstands and misrepresents the views of others scholars.
Terran Williams and Andrew Bartlett have written extensively about this, and Mike did say at the beginning of his series that he welcomed push back and would respond to scholarly critiques.
Mike has since backed away from that early declaration amd refuses to respond to any critique of his series.
I find it disappointing that Mike currently is pointing out the errors of Benny Hinn but refuses to respond to those who have pointed out his errors and the egregious comments he has made about egalitarian scholars and authors ( like Aimee Bryd) who disagree with his complementarian stance.
The details are in terranwilliams.com/articles
They are jealous? What evidence do you have to arrive at this conclusion? You are the searcher of hearts? That's God's role. Online success is what settles the issue for you? Not Jesus' heart for his daughters? Jesus who would not discriminate against His daughters vs Winger whose position in Calvary Chapel is predicated on his accepting his complementarian stand or he'd be out. Winder who repeatedly used ad hominem attacks in his series, after misunderstanding scholars and who repeatedly said he'd love pushback from scholars but when contacted has declined Mike Davis- Theologian, Bruce Fleming- Theologian, Terran Willams -Scholar, Andrew Bartlett- Theologian, Nick Queint- PhD, New Testament at last count. Where is Winger's integrity- why not dialogue after asking for it and then declining when approached for the same? Also he spoke of the abuse of women in SBC as a peripheral issue- that's how his theology works. Jesus on the other made a difference to the lives of women and called them for many first in the Gospels. Unlike Winger, the Holy Spirit ordained women in the Upper room to preach the Gospel. No restrictions were given. Who do you follow- Holy Spirit or Winger?
Mike Winger was approached for a dialogue hy acholars and PhDs coz despite his lengthy series he misundstood sound academic work. But after repeatedly saying that h would "love" to be corrected andcthat hed love "push back", he declined. Paul was not talking about the creation account as the foundation of this passage... It was about 1st degree vs 2nd degree sinner... much insight to be gained from www.tru316.com
The creation design is the two shall be one which Jesus repeats in the New Testament. No hierarchy.
Early church had female leaders and preachers commissioned by the Holy Spirit and women leaders Romans 16 plus a whole host from history. God does not discriminate. The opposite is a Gen 3 mentality. Read not a few verses out of the cannonical or historical context written to local churches. Read not a few verses while denying the rest of God's word. Read all of Scripture through the eternal standard of the LIVING WORD.
Much insight to be gained from Www.tru316.com
www.patheos.com/blogs/zackhunt/2014/03/complementarianism-the-churchs-segregation-problem/
Www.tru316.com
jamespruch.wordpress.com/let-her-lead/
www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-male-pronouns-dont-exist-in-1-timothy/
terranwilliams.com/the-biblical-case-for-women-in-leadership-and-why-mike-winger-the-gospel-coalition-and-the-southern-baptists-are-wrong-about-this/
Mike spent hundreds of hours in research but still came up with the same old "men are in authority women are to submit. "
Sad. We need to take the KJV version of Line 1 of Genesis 3:16 into account. The Hebrew words do not speak of "pain in childbirth." The Hebrew word for curse is used only twice. Once for the serpent enemy and once for the ground because of the man. More on this on Season One of The Eden Podcast.
No - qualified men as scripture lines out, not old men. Elders and deacons are to be men. Deacons can be joined by their wives in mercy ministry but the wives have qualifications for them both to serve. Women aren’t extended leadership ability on account of the fact they were deceived in the garden… not because they are not able to think, lead or teach. Scripture is clear on this.
@@HusGoose the bible says we see through a glass darkly so the actual truth is not always clear on issues
why would God give a brain/mind and heart capable of leading or teaching and then give a command that she cannot?
does not make sense.
btw, there is an underground church in iran led by women. Why didn't God call a man do to that dangerous job?
@@HusGoose actually scripture says we see through a glass darkly meaning the answers are not always clear when it comes to issues.
and why would God give a woman capable of thinking/leading, etc only to bar her from it? makes no sense
and how do you explain the underground church in Iran is led by women? Was God not capable of raising up a man to do that dangerous job?
@@susanbarackman-artist7670 because Paul made it quite clear. The “weaker vessel” cannot adequately discern truth from deception. Case in point, this discussion, with you.
The argument against women is not of God so who is behind that thought process? So... Jesus lifted women up and as He's the exact image of the invisible God, God's view of women is correct... So who twists scripture to confuse, hinder and half truth? No one has mentioned the one behind the twist... Doesn't the bible say who is the father of lies? Why isnt the one behind the lie exposed. It seems it's the blind leading the blind in main stream church system, and they can't see truth, so they are in the dark and who lives in the darkness? You guys are amazingly kind towards those who lead astray and hold on bondage to false teaching about the equality of women.
so why does childbirth hurt sooooo much. Beyond pain, and animals don't suffer like this.
Interesting question, thanks for the discussion.
we have medication for that
Childbirth would naturally be painful if you think about it? but premature sex with lucifer and each other would definitely cause some bad effects like bring death into the human dna and passing it on to the future offspring. Satan had a child with Eve too. Cain was the child of the devil. It appears Adam teamed up with lucifer to seduce the female into deviant sex acts?
twins with two different biological fathers still occur in human women today too.
@@Cherrylipgloss2025 not always. I speak from experience
TLDR for sure. You dough-doughs. All that breath and not a point threatened with push back.
Winger is like many misinterpreters of the Bible. He's like P.T. Barnum. Putting on a show for the echo chamber.
So Mike Winger spirals, makes too long vids, doesn’t research enuf, doesn’t read the right paragraph or footnotes, thinks too californian/American, and worse just doesn’t agree?
You’ve lent extremely little actual substance to your criticisms of the man’s argument. I’ll shuffle around in your old vids to see how you represent Fleming’s work, but i’d prefer objective substance over your subjective opinion on another servant’s work.
Still… thanks for the vid. I’ll be watching more of your vids.
Did you read their research?
The details are in terranwilliams.com/articles
@@tru316 Thank you. Also yesterday watched your second video on the channel. I'm hearing you out. 👍
Feel free to dig in. We have for 30 years. PhD Dissertation of 407 pages at the University of Strasbourg, France (Tru316.com/shop). Man and Woman in Biblical Unity, by Dr. Joy Fleming, (on Amazon and as a free audio book download on top bar of Tru316.com). The Book of Eden, Genesis 2-3, by Bruce C. E. Fleming, 124 pages, as hard copy, eBook on Amazon of as audiobook on Audible.