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Review - Champions of Chaos DLC - Total War Warhammer 3 - Immortal Empires
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2022
- Champions of Chaos is the newest DLC dropping for Total War Warhammer. It brings in 4 NEW Legendary Lords and a LOT of units! Let's talk about it in this review and what this may mean for the future!
Review - Champions of Chaos DLC - Total War Warhammer 3 - Immortal Empires
#totalwar #warhammer3 #immortalempires
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A new format for DLC but a surprising one CA are outdoing themselves with DLC
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one-
What about 3 FLC units, where can I download them? I ask about Warriors of Tzeentch with halberds, Nurgle warriors with great weapons and slaneesh scourge warriors?
@@TheMrYadrian RLC? I’m pretty sure the free new warriors are just included with the next update. Could be wrong though, I haven’t looked into it much
Could they do Norsca in the same style?
EDIT: I think it would go well with the main
Norsca rework
@@shadeblackwolf1508 gonna be honest, I don't think Norsca is a good candidate for this kind of DLC, at least not how this one is constructed.
1. By necessity, Norsca has to be very limited in terms of Chaos-ness to differentiate it from Warriors and Monogods. If they don't lean into the savage viking aspect rather than the Chaos aspect they're just WoC lite, which isn't very interesting. Thus, the roster of characters that can properly represent them as LLs is pretty thin- I honestly don't think they could pull off 4 lords without going Ghorst (and yes that is a small Danny Phantom reference). They have to be: 1. Leading armies comprised mostly of marauders 2. leading mostly undivided armies 3. Not be a better fit in another roster. I can think of only 2 characters that fit this bill.
2. They actually need some new unit types, rather than just reskins, to be competitive at this point. Marauder champions of X god is just not going to cut it.
I think they'd be better suited to the traditional lopsided benefits Lord pack, squared off against Sea Lord Aislinn of the High Elves for a thematic campaign. High elves don't need much in terms of a faction rework, so I think it's a win-win.
I would *love* a similar DLC pack for the vampire counts, with a sub-faction for each bloodline. We already have the Von Carstein bloodline, we could maybe finally have Neferata as leader of the Lahmian faction, then Abhorash for the Blood Dragons, Ushoran for the Strigoi, and W'soran for the Necrarch.
That sounds pretty cool
This, just this.
Also a proper dreadfleet vs alliance of Sartosa dlc as they stupidly took the time to make a new character but are missing the Tomb King Pirate, Skaven Undead Pirate, and Chaos Dwarf Pirate, and Vampire Pirates vs normal pirates, Arabian Pirates, and other naval factions /lords
thiiiiiis I will happily fork over my precious $$ for it
Map is already overpopulated
People give CA a hard time about these being "reskins" but these are just alternative LLs for the Warriors of Chaos. These aren't new factions. Given that fact, can we really complain? Many of their unit variants have actual new models, not just different stats. When has a new LL ever come with so many actually new models? Genuine reskins, where it's the Huntmaster and his units are simply coloured differently from Reikland or whoever, is the norm. But here we actually do have different models. And modders will go from there.
I just want a new nurgle demon monogod
So poor nurgle can have better demons
honestly, reskin or not, I'm just amazed that a single DLC single handedly contains more units (49, not counting legendary characters which'd push them up to 53) than the entire Skaven roster (42, not counting legendary characters which'd push them up to 49 (6LL and 1LH))
@@Eclipsed_Embers The changes to the individual unit variants are pretty low effort, for the most part. No new animations needed, bodies mostly untouched, mostly it was just the helmets of the chaos warriors and chosen that were made new.
The game released with almost half the faction roster (all the chaos monogods) feeling half-empty is the problem, and some of these factions like Slaanesh and Nurgle really feel the hurt because of this. Not only are these reskins that differ in quality (some of the new units have lazy design) but it feels almost necessary having this DLC in order to have fun with the monogod factions. CA launched the game in a poor state and pissed everyone off, and what do they do next in good faith? An overexpensive DLC that contain units much needed for the base game. Even asking $10 is overdoing it. I'll just wait for a sale on those key reseller websites to show my gratitude for their behavior.
Can we really complain? Yes, we can do whatever we want.
They are lucky to get the IP. It's a license to print money.
I like the rework, I like the LLs but these units should have been in the monogods from day 1. Nurgle and slaanesh rosters in particulsr were incomplete without them. And if no one complains we can expect each faction to be drawn out in microtransactions
I think that this format is EXACTLY what they need to do for the Vampire Counts, doing The Red Duke the same as they did Bel'akor. It would be a HUGE rework with 5 DLC characters and 1 FLC(The Red Duke). Just as long as they don't make one of them Nagash and give him his own massive thing though but I wouldn't mind if they even used Neferata for one of them.
6 more lords for Vampires? hell nah, not gonna happen
@@wasterick By the end there will most likely be at least 5 more, maybe not a new von carstein but the red duke, neferata(lhamian), a blood dragon, a necharch, and a strigoi. And don't forget about Nagash who would be a mix of vampire and tomb kings most likely.
Nagash would be a Tomb Kings thing, not a Vampire Counts thing.
@@GriffinPilgrim I would think he would be more a mix of the two. Kind of how like Valkia is a mix of Khorne and WoC and stuff like that.
@@alainxz751 I mean we already basically have that with Arkhan the Black. But a lot of VC stuff wouldn't make sense for Nagash, most notably the vampires themselves; they didn't come into existence until after he was defeated and they came out of his enemies.
Also I just now thought; actually having Nagash active opens up some lore issues with Azhag.
I actually like the nurgle warrior visual the most
They seem grim yet so jolly :)
They're reskins but they're such high quality reskins, like dude this stuff is night and day compared to the original Tzeentch chaos knights. These look so freakin nice. People just really want to complain
Edit: also yes, make more of these kind of DLCs. Vampire counts in this format would be incredible. Neferata, Melkior/W'soran, Vorag Bloodytooth/Ushoran, Nagash, + Red Duke as FLC. Absolute fire.
More than half of all comments on each CA TW video is stained by one complaint on top of another. Those players are probably 'unironic' ogre mains-as miserable as they are obese.
@@voyager9959 Nooooooooo! Don't complain about things I don't care about!
Yeh the complaint seems a little overblown to me. Like Cyberpunk, WH3's rough-as-guts launch did spawn quite a few dedicated doomsayers. *edit: A bit more work making the Warshrines look unique would have been nice tho
@@mumblez7712 I mean negativity against the units is probably not nearly as big as they claim. all the trailers so far have still overwhelmingly positive responses overall.
Would be awesome to include a Empire/Border Princes flavor pack. 4 Legendary Lords, 1 for Estalia, 1 for Tilea, 1 for Border Princes, 1 for Dogs of War (if they dont get their own DLC).
Agree
The trouble there is they'd have to make them all up, given how thinly sketched the southern human nations are in lore. All of these Chaos lords are from existing canon.
I wonder if they'll stuck to this DLC type? Legions of the Undead with a big rework and multiple lords sounds like a winner for a start. Lizardmen? Empire? Could be exciting.
Lizard men is unlikely, empire I can possibly see Boris,the halfings, and the college of magics as sun factions
@@herbertvonbismarck8303 Lizards are money makers though and they still miss a few characters
@@mikkelangelokers9965 then again, we got Tehenuin before Chakax or Tetto'eko so maybe they aren't a top priority
@@bruuuuuuuuhhhh Kinda weird CA released Oxyotl in game 2 instead of 3 seeing as fighting in the realms of chaos was his entire schtick
@@mikkelangelokers9965 Exactly! I was thinking the same thing.
Need this format for a VC dlc with different bloodline lords and rework!
Lol just got to that part great minds in all ;)
[People complaining about dedicated mortal units to a specific Chaos god]
They are legit representing the mechanics of Chaos Marks, please read a little into Warhammer lol
I have a sneaking suspicion slaughterbrutes will be added as a khorne unit and vortex beasts as a tzeentch unit. The WOC I imagine and hope will still get them but I think they'll add them with Khorne/Tzeentch lord packs since AOS treats them as monogod and they'll use that as a vague justification to add them that way.
Besides, there are so many ideas for Tzeentch and Khorne lord packs. The Skulltaker, Scylla, Engrimm, Arbaal, the Changeling, there are just so many lords to choose from!
So what's wrong with that?
This is very possible, Arbaal the undefeated and Egrimm van Horstman?
I dont know how Slaughterbrute would work for Khorne tho, as they are so feral they have to be bounded by magic which is not exactly Khornes thing. Im sure we will get them, but to Undivided. We will see, i would love them and also Vortex Beasts.
@@chaotix7275 I mean, Khorne cultists open portals to summon daemons and one of his army abilities is to summon a giant sword from thin air so...
I really like the culture pack comparison. I really like the stylized feel and appreciate the detail they put in for the new skins. They don't look lazy and they really allow for immersion.
This is one of (if not) the best DLCs. One thing i miss are legendary heroes. It would be awesome to get one for each chaos god.
yea
Festus does get a legendary hero named Samuel Ludenhof. No idea about others tho...
@@timecrystal5thapostleof125 valkia get's one as well with unique skill tree
@@hxrd_christ Kamock right? I feel i'm horribly wrong
@@timecrystal5thapostleof125 Cool! Even though i try to catch all the news as soon as possible, somehow I missed this one. But I suspect it is pseudo legendary hero, like Robert Barthelemy for Cylostra, or Cavill for Eltharion, not proper legendary hero like Ghoritch, Ariel or Lord Kroak, am I right? Nevertheless I am happy we get at least them, thanks for the info!
I hope they bring Korhil the captain of the white lions as a new lord for the high elves starting off in the fortress of dawn to aid the elven colonies
For me the biggest turn down of this DLC are both the price of the DLC and the design of Festus the character faction mechanics. I want Festus to have something like Grom to hunt down ingredients for different potions to have different effects.
Im really happy that the first dlc for Warhammer 3 comes with 4 lords that's a really nice change
GBOG:"Valkia specializes in melee combat."
Wrong Valkia specializes in getting her ass kicked by slaaneshi marauders.
I really don't get the reskin debate. Technically, all melee infantry are reskins of all other melee infantry in the sense that they are dudes with swords/axes/whatever going out and fighting other dudes with other weapons with different colors. The difference in total war is the different numbers that say if they kill things better or not. Besides, when I'm fighting a battle, I'm not really zoomed in on how pretty that guy's armor is, and are more focused on the large amount of guns or giant monsters charging at them.
Because we’ve waited 6ish years for warriors to finally get some spice to them. Only to result in a surface level amount of reskin of old units. Why people can’t seem to grasp this is beyond me. It’s a lack of initiative and CA using a base template to result in them barely pushing the envelope by much.
Couldn’t we have gotten a bit more flavored designs unit wise? Why didn’t we get say a smaller nurgle unit but larger individual models and super heavy armor to emphasize their bulk tank theme? Why didn’t we get a more sleek chain mail esq. roman gladiatorial slannesh warrior with that type of profile. Why didn’t we get more mutated hybrid esq. marauder units to reflect the ominous influence of tzeentch? People have found every manner of excuse to say otherwise.
Crazy as it is. Not everyone cares for hard numbers, it’s a mixture of looks and application. If they look like shit or are in parallel to their alternatives doesn’t much matter if they perform amazing. It’s why people grief over chaos spawn being what they are. It’s always gonna stick out like a sore thumb they look exactly alike outside a pallet swap with some slight ornament alterations.
@@robosoldier11 I mean yeah they are using a base template... because these are MARKED units. they aren't meant to be drastically different from their base because in the end they are still supposed to be chaos warriors or chosen or whatever.
the reason why there isn't big changes like super heavy armor or mutated stuff should be obvious dude. because this is for a FUCKTON of units. way more then any other DLC like this in the past. around 50 unit variations are here. do you have any idea how much longer and more expensive this dlc would be if they had to make entirely unique units out of them?
there are still gonna be units later with the kind of things you're asking in other dlc but its pretty clear what the point of this dlc is and its to add to the chaos gods influence on each type of mortal unit as upgrades of their base template. not to be entirely unique units
@@robosoldier11 like i would 100% agree with what you're saying if this dlc was like 4-8 units like 2 for each lord with this level of design change. then that would be bad. but it's changed visuals for almost their entire roster and then some not to mention the marked lords and heroes who are entirely new. That's more then literally any faction has ever gotten in the trilogy
@@robosoldier11 Essentially CA is more or less restricted to the units that exist/ed in Warhammer. The Warriors of Chaos faction is, funnily enough, the Warriors of Chaos faction from Warhammer Fantasy Battles. The 'Reskin' argument is ridiculous, just by virtue of having a reskin they're more different than they ever were in tabletop
@@joedatius I disagree. Isn't the DLC to better reflect the marked stuff? So why wouldn't more effort be put into making them more distinct unit wise. Are people seriously telling me that the only big distinction between all these dudes is some slight ornamental differences and a fucking logo on which chaos god they happen to be aligned with? Give me a break its rather obvious there is more implication of dedication to a chaos god that doesn't require innate crazy mutations but reflect the charm and behavior of the unit itself. Right now I don't see that or at the very least its tacitly present. For example the Nurgle Chosen are legit 1 to 1 in looks to regular chosen great weapons outside the green tint, and their axes look a bit different. Its literally the same dynamic people had an issue with Chaos spawn and Forsaken, here the warriors are slightly different but only barely in so far as looks.
I'd love to see toad dragons for Nurgle
And serpents of slaanesh (Styrkaar of the Sortsvinaer's mount)
Toad dragons will definitely come with Tamurkhan.
@@chaotix7275 I want serpents of slaanesh 😫
@@locephaxthearchseducer4621 Theres a really good mod with Serpents of Slaanesh
Belakor -> Valkyia -> Skarbrand will be my first Immortal empire campaigns, can't wait tbh. Keen to play some Wood Elves as well and hopefully a Orge Kingdoms campaign without bugs
I like variation. Just because its a "reskin" doesn't make it bad. Seeing variation in look with some tweaked stats is an easy way to make things feel way more expansive and interesting.
I mean it certainly helps that we get so much of it and that we get 4 lords as well along with marked lords and heros for each LL which all look even better. This is like if all the skaven factions got unique versions of clanrats
The new Nurgle units are absolutely beautiful.
Got this dlc a week ago after returning to the game. I'm really enjoying it, specifically valkia, I'm moping the floor with every faction who is unfortunate to to get in my way.
I would love to see this format continued and used to update some of the neglected races in the game, the dwarves, empire, undead et.
The two things I still really really want from Total Warhammer 3 at this point are the Dawi-Zharr and an extensive rework of the Vampire Counts. Given that even the Cult of Sigmar got a once-over I'm fairly certain the Vampires will eventually get their time in the limelight again, but the Chaos Dwarfs though? Man, that would be the cherry on top.
Oh and the Greenskins really ought to get some more love at some point as well!
Honestly, your argument here convinced me that it isn't as bad as I thought it was. Good job on that. Your criticisms still mirror my own, but overall I'm more positive about the DLC than I originally was.
I'd like to debate this with someone and im a slaanesh fan boy but, I wholeheartedly agree nurgle got the shaft with wh3 looks wise. Looking at plague bearer artwork from wh fantasy vs the in game models they look a little derpy, their voice lines are derpy (some of them are anyways) they have these pointed heads in some of the older art. That they don't have in game. The exalted variants look almost exactly the same as the regular, I know why they claim they didn't do this but I don't care, they didn't give us the organs, and look at how they fucked Festus up so baddly. His skin has a few boils on it, and he has swollen legs and a blue leech holding his staff, when you look at the table top minature he has boils all over his fat gizzard like chin, all over his arms in clusters, he has a hooved foot, he really honestly looks uncanny to me in this game because he gives me great "clean" one meme vibes. His skin looks too flawless to me. Coming from the God who's known to have black clouds of flies blotting out the sun with the coming of his armies. It's disappointing and i hope so baddly modders take up the mantle and dirty them up for us. RANT OVER.
Eh, Vilitch is the one that dosnt sit quite right with me. Really wish they went with a blended look of the updated AoS model & the old one. The 'fused at the shoulder' look on the new one is so much cooler than the 'weird snake body' look of the old one (altho old Thomin looks tougher)
shouldn't the nurgle units have derpy voice lines? thats entirely in character. their whole thing is that they are derpy gross weirdos
Hope we get something like this for bretonnia
I'm confident the Slaughterbrute and Vortex Beast will show up for Khorne and Tzeentch DLCs respectively. I like this DLC format, but I can only see it be used again for Vampire Counts (especially Vampire Counts) and maybe Cathay. Lord Packs work as a way to patch up two races at once with small changes and Race packs are... well... race packs. I could also see a combination of this style with Dogs of War when/if they ever come out.
Now all they have to do is do the same thing for the beastmen and give us beastfiends
I don't understand why these weren't introduced in their respective races, now i am new to this game, i starter in 3, but to me, it seems silly that all 4 of these practice and follow the concept of their respective races, but for some reason was placed in the warriors of chaos, rather than in their respective factions
I was thinking they could do a 4 lord pack for the Empire based on this DLC. Edit: I agree with you it's about a 9/10. I don't think it gets 9.5 or 10 b/c of the issue with the lack of extra unique units. But I really like the 4 LLs (in theory) so that gives 'em that A-!
On its own, ot looks like a cool DLC, and it's good that a somewhat ignored faction got this treatment, but on the other hand .. Oh boy this may be controversial. I'm a bit annoyed with how the spamming of forum and reddit threads got rewarded. People raised up a storm that imo resulted in a lot of WoC models being cut from the on-start monogod factions for not being different enough ('cause who cares about the TT, there was this awesome art in Age of Reckoning), and instead of getting more units upfront, have this fancy DLC as justification for all the ruckus - there's not many new units, but look at all those variants!
I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Now Empire fans oufght to spam the forums, discord and reddit in complaint threads more until every damn variant in Uniforms of the Empire got included. And heck, not just Uniforms, anything else - who cares if the models were based on some fanart in Storm of Chaos or AoR? That's how we get stuff!
I hope we get a similar DLC for the empire's elector counts. Now they'd need to be spread through more than one DLC, plus some could end up being in lord packs, but it would be nice to eventually be able to place each imperial province with a unique thing to separate them out. I still think the elector state troops could use some tweaking and maybe a similar system for the knightly orders. I hope to see the Deaths Heads, Stir River patrol, Hellhuntens redeemers, Knights Encarmine and many, many others.
Also 18:40 WHAT A DIFFERENCE when an enemy becomes a vassal you can decide to make peace or continue warfare instead of being forced to do either. This vassal rework i have been hearing about is probably one the best things we have been needing since game 1
That was a Rome 2 feature, it's not even new.
@Jean Sanchez
Could do without the horde of minor settlement battles tbfh
I would have preferred more unique and blessed chosen, but my main issue if the price. WoC dlc is $8, for all of the chaos warrior units, spawn (their first iteration), dragon ogres, two lords, marauders...
CoC is $16 for four lords, one new unit, and a reskinned WoC roster.
If CA wants to make lower effort dlcs to flesh out the subfactions, fine, but price it accordingly. Even the culture packs you compare it to are cheaper than this dlc is.
If you buy this dlc you get all units from WoC as well.
@@shadow_king12344 yeah, at this point the old one is basically $8 for 3 lords and nothing else
@@Eclipsed_Embers LMAO
the only thing that bothers me, is the price. for 4 LL, a single new unit with 4 flavors and a few reskins a price of 16€ is quite high, especially compared to previous DLCs with 2 LL of two different races with 3-4 new units for each race. Additionally, you would get unique faction mechanics for both factions of the DLC, e.g. the flesh lab for throt or the cooking for grom the paunch. If the champions of chaos DLC would be 10€ (plus maybe 10% inflation), I would be totally fine with all of this, but this kinda seems like a rip-off
Warhammer 3 start was very bad. But now the game will go the best way. Hope the Text dlc will bring us a new faction mayby the chaos dwarfs.
People need to stop complaining and quit acting so entitled about features in a video game. You can't always get what you wanted.
very very excited for this one as one of my main gripes with WH 3 was the lackluster mono god rosters, and this beautifully fixes it!
just to clarify so the mono god daemon lords will also have access to the mortal units that the champions of chaos use just the ones themed to their specific god?
Yes.
Yuri gets some of the Monogod Warriors as well
The format may be good in itself. But I'm extremely peeved that we do not have actually new mechanics, there really is a case of "why would I play Vilitch when I can play Kairos or Archaon? Rather I should play Kairos, then Archaon." I do not agree at all with the fact that they play majorly differently. Everything about them feels like something that already exist clearly somewhere. Playing Festus IS just playing a mix of a more vanilla chaos lord like Kholek and Ku'gath's gameplay, nothing is new per se. I do not see why it's worth of so much praise or . If anything it feels lazy and does not hold to the new mechanics that DLC factions got in TWII like Taurox, Nakai or Ikkit, and that by far.
I understand that these are questions of taste of course and the DLC has the advantage of being cheaper than 2 lord packs so that's why I'm not complaining, especially has CA has mentioned they would get back to brand new specific mechanics for factions for the future. But, yeah, I guess I understand why there is an appeal to playing mixed factions like the Champions, but why wouldn't have it been possible to have these factions have their own mechanics as well as their own restricted mixed roster rather than cheap copycat of the monogod races mechanics?
Then you say Nathan that it makes a lot of sense that they have these monogod mechanics as well, well not only that makes the monogod races less special but if we accept that ... Why couldn't they get their own mechanics as well? Like maybe have an even more stripped down version of the monogod mechanics and a brand new mechanic as well. Or have mechanics that while resembling and being inspired by the monogod mechanic would still be heavily different. A bit like Moulder and Skryre both have a laboratory and thus are based on the same idea of giving special buffs to certain part of your roster yet they are mechanics which are still vastly different. Or like Nakai is a horde which have cities but do not construct them and gain blessings from creating new ones is vaguely similar to Beastmen gameplay, but only very vaguely.
People who call the new units lazy reskins look like they have no idea what they are talking about, imo.
Look how awesome all these marauders and warriors look! Sure there's always room for more, but calling hard working game devs lazy is just pathetic
They only changed a few parts per unit (like a new weapon / helmet). They aren't lazy reskins, but for 16$ they are lazy variations.
@@stillcold Nope. It's rather that you're full of bitterness, but hey there are always embittered people.
@@pierrecadiau1542 rationalize one’s favorite company taking advantage of them by criticizing irrelevant things instead of intelligently discussing the argument.
Its a lazy cashgrab dlc.
Not sure where I should post this bug, but if you manage to save Tilea from Aranessa, Tilea never seem to recruit any units. no matter how many settlments you gift them. seems like they're designed to perish atm.
Slaughterbrute could be implemented as kind of remodel and reskin of stonehorne and hellpit abomination (additional arms)
Now gibme order tide to kick some chaos buts...
Abhorash with the woc upgrade system where you get Blood dragon vampire Squires, and you can upgrade them into armored infantry, and into dragon slayers with anti Large weapons or Horses to put them into the known blood knights we know.
This is a 'DLC' that should of been in the base game. 60 euros to buy the base game and then feeling as if the chaos factions were intentionally stripped down. 16 euros to basically buy back what was strippled. Malicious greedy practice. Feels the same for each of the new factions, hardly any units or mechanics, but im sure after a DLC for each they will be at the state they should have been on release.
I really enjoy the new lords. Festus especially is incredibly fun just wreaking plague havoc on britonia and the empire. I enjoy it quite a bit!
I wish GW did models like that
Give me Archaon’s 3 headed demonic mount version of Dorghar! That’s what I truly want, how about a quest line were you kill 3 separate champions and transform Dorghar !? Let’s go! Lol
I think that's AoS
@@bruuuuuuuuhhhh that’s a fair point :/
@@sasquash8709 we wouldn't want Dorghar to become more of an Everchosen than Archaon
I think Norsca/Northern Tribes badly needs a DLC like this. Not just for the accompanying rework with themed reskins (for the Hung, Kurgans, etc.), but with only 2 LLs currently, an extra 4 would *triple* the size of their LL pool with just a single DLC.
I think it would be fun to see a new lord pack with Norsca and the Empire. Norsca could use new units and a new lord since they got a good rework, and the empires old system now feels like a joke with all the new options for diplomacy. I really want them to focus on the old races fitting into the new systems because we have a ton of options with chaos now I don't think they need anything for a long time.
I'm just sad I'm stuck in twwh 2, my potato won't run 3. Valkia looks loads of fun and I like her lore.
The DLC idea I agree is something that should have been done since day 1 like for all factions , but after playing with the new champion lords I can say there is no reason to play with much weaker version of the mono Gods like Skarbrand or Kugath etc. Having regen in enemy territory like Skarbrand and now from Nurgle gift is very strong while 3 of the champions are gimped compared to Festus as example but all in all the new 4 Lords are very weak. If any reason for not playing the mono Gods if you're into chaos then the "original" ones are much better since can also get all gifts/units and make the roaster exactly as you please.
The DLC feels a bit rushed , no more "elaborated" intros for the lords, not even for the new ones , Malagor starting area is like a table chess on edges , me in particular I got game crash when the end event started , Malagor also bugged blood grounds they reopen each time you open a new shard .
Kind of to much hype/publicity in the video for the reality, in my opinion.
Anyone else think the unit upgrade system would work well for Bretonnia?
I do! It could be a great way to show the progression from squire or knights errant to a full blown grail knight.
Brettonia needs an update badly, we need another ranged unit as well. Peasant archers should have an upgrade where they turn into armored squires with bows. maybe different
variants too (fire, poison, etc).
And jeez can we get a new lord or hero type, seeing the same exact knight Lords copy and pasted across the map isn’t fun, especially when they look exactly the same as one another.
Also Grail knights and Grail guardians should feel like the super heroes they are, lower the unit count on grail units but massively buff their HP and give them a very small damaging aura, because in the lore their aura of shimmering energy could damage evil creatures by just their presence alone.
Grail units should be complete game changers, not feel like a slightly better version than questing knights.
@@themightyruler1319 I would like to see the Warhammer version of Robin Hood, as he could add in different lord type, one similar to the Huntsmen General, and he could ambush and sack without Chivalry Penalties, but could not earn Chivalry on his own.
@@olympusgolemoflight7198 he could as a buff to whatever province your in your going to loose tax revenue but you gain a small growth bonus and a happiness bonus to your local peasants
So having played with this a bit...the WoC rework isn't great. You still have no income, and now you're shackled to settlements and have lost choice of what to recruit. I actually miss the old horde gameplay.
Can Daniel use the new unit types? Or just Warriors of Chaos and dedicated chaos god factions?
I think most people don't actually dislike the dlc itself but they just somewhat dislike the fact that they couldn't get more like the Slaughterbrute or Vortex Beast
This dlc seems like one of the best, but its a dlc not a new game. Just picked up a few dlcs from total war 2 on sale. Will do same with this, wait 1 year and pick it up on sale for atleast 50% discount. The price on new dlcs are way to high
Like the Lords, love Valkia.
New Warrior Stuff seems awesome, even tho we miss a Hero Mage for Nurgle (and others). Hey, but I take everything after 7 years of shitty Chaos Warriors. Still very critical about what they did for that release.
Don't know how I feel about the copied mechanics from the mono gods, while we had unique ones in every "Versus" DLC.
After all these years, the true End Times have Come!!!
The asymmetry of the mounts for lords and heroes seems to make sense, but I imagine it could be frustrating if you're only ever on one mono-god.
Looks awesome, been good watching you go through all the changes the last few weeks. Looking forward to sturing some chaos with my friends!
Nathans cat was just wildin' in the background
ok but... what about you do monogods, but for undead, lahmian, nehek, vampires, strygoi, vampire coast... and introduce the equivalent of chaos undivided... as nagash.
its essentially a rework of vampires, vampire coast, and tomb kings all as one.
That sounds fucking dope actually.
I personally want to see Araby, Ind, Nippon and Khuresh added first.
And then for them to move into expanding existing factions like you've described with the Undead. Empire have a ton of potential. Elves have a ton of room for expansion.
Nagash is what I want most
If they have Bel'akor then they for sure can have Nagash.
@@jamesespinosa690 Araby has no chance at this point and CA have said that the other 3 are years away if ever. chances are that most of the game 1 and 2 races will get updates and DLCs before they're even considered.
@@Eclipsed_Embers While I'd normally be inclined to agree with you. I must say, seeing how much content they've developed with Norsca, Vampire Coast and Cathay. I'm actually going to hold out hope for Araby and the others. It does appear to be that CA is actually really listening to their fans, which is super rare for a games development company.
So so long as we keep vocally asking for X, then I do have faith that they will give it too us!
Does anyone know if the Daemons of Chaos (Daniel) gets access to these units?
Lost me at 1 new unit. I'm not going to start a new campaign for 1 lord and only 1 unit. I'll just play the 3 Original lords
Man if they do lord packs like this from now on…that will be awesome
My complaint isn't that they're reskins. It's that they're only PARTIAL reskins. I'd be happy with reskins. But all we got was helmet/weapon/shield swaps.
Seriously, we couldn't get ONE unique suit of armor per god?
The Great Book of Grudges: I've been A Maze'd -> Kairos Fateweaver after seeing the WoC in the Past and seeing the Future DLC: Orchestrated the Current CA Timeline to have Nathan struggle to frustration in the Realm of Tzeentch running circles.
Just as planned.
As someone who is not well-versed with WH Fantasy, I am getting confused by the distinctions between all the Chaos (sub-)factions. Khorne, Legions of Chaos, the Chaos lords etc etc. In Total War, not all are part of the same faction. Anywho... confused^^
I'll admit I don't really understand some of these distinctions either. Like why is Valkia a Warriors of Chaos faction and not a Khorne faction? She's a Daemon Princess of Khorne, and unlike Skarbrand she's actually liked by Khorne. Is it because Daemon Princes used to be human, and only daemons who have always been daemons get to lead their god's factions?
@@elifia basically yeah. but CA has said that the distinction isn't permanent and its being done to boost WoC along with still giving each lord their mechanics from the monogod factions
Have you actually tried playing Skarbrand campaign after the update, since you claim that this DLC massively helps them? Yes, they do get some extra infantry, which they could've gone without but what they lose is:
- tons of movement for bloodhosts
- movement regen after a win
- movement regen after raze
- tier 3 settlement garrison went from 18 units down to 9 - good luck expanding at all
- spawn of khorne randomly lost 30 weapon strength lmao
- Skull Throne buff now lasts 5 turns, provides less bonuses and has 10 turn cd
and it looks my save is kind of corrupt since heroes got different skills but my skill points are already spent, so will have to mod that out
Considering I have a Skarbrand campaign with most of the map under my control yeah lol
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges nice, on IE? How do you manage to keep your settlements with 5 to 9 unit garrison?
@@Kraykz what the hell are you talking about? You know you can just build the walls and increase your garrison size right?? On top of that if you as Skarbrand you’re suppose to raze everything. Why do you still have enemies attacking your settlements?
@@ngythe1king Khorne's minor settlement garrison has 9 units when maxed out with walls, while it used to be 18 before the update.
> you’re suppose to raze everything
Yes and from the ruins you form provinces. Every province you own gives you 1% melee attack faction wide (from commandment), So when you reach ~30%+ your units pretty much never miss and melt anything. Without provinces you miss out this huge bonus. It's like playing Norsca without going for the 40% weapon strength faction wide buff or Skaven w/o the Warlord income buff. You never reach the faction peak that way.
PS it is still possible to defend against a full stack with just 9 units, it's just no longer autoresolve.
Is Slambo the final boss of the DLC though?
this dlc was 5/10 at best, 9/10 is insanity
I think Nurgle will get rotbeast with Tamurkhan
You mean toad dragon?
@@robosoldier11 no I mean rotbeast the mounts for rot knights
I hope with this new DLC type we could get Schwarzhelm, Toddy or Voltun as lords with more varied knights for the Empire in future. Maybe a cool themed RoC campaign with Toddy saving Middenland.
And of course Kurt Helborg as the fourth lord for this pack.
I could never see Voltun joining the game tbh. his entire presence reeks of how shitty end times is and i doubt CA would want to add a lord who's entire schtick basically makes Karl Franz into a nobody
I'd like to see this for vampire counts but im not sure how I't would work for other factions, telia estallis border princes for empire maybe
I think two good things should be done, and maybe modders will do this, Maybe CA will. But I do think marks should all have positives and negatives. I've heard people say they should haveno negatives but then that basically makes the undivided chosen worthless if their marked counterparts are just better(Except chosen hellscourges) Slaanesh is already a very strong faction, that is only getting better..... and their marks have no downsides at all. An entire army with variants with ITP, higher speed, and physical resist didn't get a negative like overall less armour or something. Where as Nurgles marks have two negatives.
The other feels like it will be expanded later by CA or a modder could easily do this, but a few more black fortresses around the map. Especially since the southern wastes exist it means invasions can come from the south if you take the time to go down there and conquer land..... but go any furhter north and there are no black fortresses. No presence in the southlands at all, no presence in Lustra and no presence in souther Cathay. I know it's for themeing, they are northern invaders who struggle to control and conquer as they go south and makes it all thematic and stuff. But tellme why Reikland can't be a black fortress? The overall captital of the empire in many cases and they won't make it a fortress for themselves.... or Courronne? Norscans even before their normalization update could take those places but Chaos can't? And tell me why places like Hexoatl and Itza wouldn't be a good black fortress? Already targets of chaos in the past and heavily fortified locations they could take, but nope,not fortress locations.
Like I said, modder may do it, or CA will expand the system later. Those are my main two biggest gripes though. And maybe slightly better garrisons for minor settlements. Yes I know, you can send those off to vassals but let them get too strong and they'll rebel against you over and over(except azazel cause his seduction vassalization can't rebel anymore) so it'd be nice if I could claim those places and keep those vassals in their place. Besides that I really like the update and how it looks. Like the idea behind chaos warrior ascension that's super cool. Gifts to chaos and soul sacrificing, the mixtures of ideas, like mono god WoC factions being hybrids. Be'lakor is a truly warriors/deamon hybrid faction.
Just missing confederation, but I can see why that's......complicated in a way.
I think they don't want them to be black fortresses because in regards for Reikland it would be already too close to other ones. but i think the point is that these are supposed to be staging points for invasions. there is no real point in making too many of them since in actual gameplay you don't really need to have fortresses everywhere. just where you recruit and even then by the time you're in the southlands you'll have global recruiting anyway
I have to assume that they're waiting to give the Nurgle Sorcerer Lord and Exalted hero a Plague Toad or Toad Dragon Mount with the release of a Tamurkhan dlc. That's the only reason I can think of for why they don't get plague drone or plague toad mounts with this dlc.
Dude, the light blue chaos warriors with the flames... god that looks soo good
those are tzeentch chaos warriors
One info I really miss in these reviews is, what's the real difference of playing a monogod WoC faction compared to the demonic faction? Seems they have pretty much the same Roster?
for one each faction focused on buffing certain things and the rates you get certain units is much different. WoC faction is about having mortal units and upgrading them over time along with giving marks for your god along with using their new mechanic to gain their gifts and in doing so your focus will be buffing those mortal units and with a flavor of daemonic units. while the monogod lords specialize almost entirely on daemon units and their faction mechanics with a flavoring of mortal units.
Does the FLC apply If i have the warrios of chaos, but don't have TWW3?
100% this DLC format for the Vampire Counts bloodlines. I want my themed armies for the VC. Please
I think these new DLC types are going to work the best specifically for the DLC that needs to be implemented into RoC. Empire could use a update like the one mentioned in the video, as well as Cathay getting a healthy 4 lord pack that could inlcude the two other royal siblings, the monkey king and possibly a corrupted cathayan lord? I think theyll intersperese these DLC packs with the traditional race packs that will most likely be CHorfs and Border Princes. Maybe Nagash is included in a lord pack or is an FLC when the Vampire update comes?
Does Belakor get these units too?
I don`t know much about tableptop, but these units existed back in 2006 in warhammer:mark of chaos game, spiritual ancestor of total war: warhammer series. Just for Nurgle and Khorne, but still, chaos warriors and chaos knights knights had drastically different skins, as well as lords. However, only demon prnce of Khorne was available, with massive horns and elongated bloodletter-like skull I never seen in TWWH 3 so far.
he's talking about tabletop
@@joedatius I know. I mean, that these units were in strategy game before. I`m glad to see them again, not in the firts time. Every new thing is the long forgotten old thing.
Personally have no problem with the reskinning. I just wish the overall animations had been updated too. Like Archaeon. he got a new animation kit..... but Sigi didn't..... he's still swining that fencer sword around like a damn axe. It's just kinda dumb. Ans the animations of the marauders/warriors/ chosen could have been changed. The 'marathon run' in particular stand out to me as being floaty and weird. But hey.... most of the time you're the eye in the sky so the animations are exactly important unless you purposely drop down to observe it so I can see why it's not a big issue for CA..... except Sigvald..... really should have done him.
But overall the different skins and styles look great to me, I can't complain about that.
I guess thats mainly because Sigvald isn't nearly as popular and giving Archeon a glow up is more important
I dont like to complain about this game, it's a massive undertaking and I dont know how to code. Usually I'm 94% pleased with what this games provided over the last decade. But mannnnn I wanna Confederate all the choas!!!!!
CA said they will be bringing confederation to WoC in some form eventually.
How many more fantasy races are there that can get added. When I say fantasy I mean all races that don't include humanity. Don't get me wrong I'd love for Southern Realms, Araby, Ind, and Nippon.
They didn't do it for khorne.
They made the mouroders of Slaanesh and make the Monogod ones (dedicated). Why they didn't do it for khorne warriors? The look is totally out of theme of the DLC. Every faction as this look of evolving look to end up in chosens. Instead the look of the monogod chaos warriors of khorne is totally different and they looks more dedicated of the chosens.
Is totally different to see and this is bad. As they did it for Slaanesh mouroders, they have to do the same for khorne warriors.
Hopefully this will be done asap.
The strange thing is that nobody notice this. Like the look of reskin and reuse is like....ok...bad.
Not liking the look of the Slaneesh Maurauders, thankfully though I'll stick with the ones they started with they look class
weirdly enough the most complaints i've seen overall has been about Marauders which is fine everyone has their opinions but at the same time is kinda weird given how they are just low tier infantry you replace anyway
I remember carving the swords on all my Slaaneshi Warriors of Chaos to look like penises. Good times.
Are enemy settlement towers still endlessly replaced?
I'm still so glad how fucking buff the horses are
"I don't really want to talk about Warhammer, The Old World" - I don't believe you!
I'm hoping to see a lot more of this type of DLC in the future, let them go all in on fleshing out a single culture/race instead of forcing an "X vs Y" approach that does nothing but make it feel like one side was heavily shafted while the other got all the love (Hunter and the Beast, Warden and the Paunch, Prophet and the Warlock, etc.). I vastly prefer this approach rather than tacking on another factorion just to continue with what they had been doing DLC wise, and this really makes the type of content they release in the future near limitless
That's actually a pretty interesting point. early on having X vs Y made sense but as time went on you can tell that there just wasn't enough factions with poor rosters to set up that style since rosters and factions have been improving so much. like the High Elves are pretty much done at this point so there would be no good reason to have a Lord pack with them. more variation for these DLC would be better so less factions don't get too much over others
What's wrong with the Warden and the Paunch? That was a pretty balanced dlc imo
@@jamieeddolls5605 Orcs got a bunch of super cool new units that completely shook up the roster alongside a massive rework that actually made them fun, while the Elves, outside of the semi-cool unique units for Eltharion, only got some mid-tier spears and low tier sword infantry. It was a great DLC, but the Orcs got a lot of love and the Elves barely got anything
Wish they would let me just buy azael and vilitch I'm not going to play the other 2 regardless. I bought the full dlc pack anyway but still wish the option was there
If this dlc had say, 4 new monsters (one for each God, double up as a mount maybe) chimera for tzeentch, boobsnake for slaanesh, basilisk for nugle, not sure about khorne that add something interesting to spice up tactics, id say it's worth full price. As it is I'll wait for a sale0
If it had 4 monsters then you simply wouldn't get all the marked units which would change the entire prospect of what the DLC is and its value. those monsters aren't cheap to make and theres a reason why you typically only get 2 or so monsters in a LL pack and given this is also a DLC with 4 lords then i think most people will find that fair
@@joedatius you could get most of them because they are reskinned. They release reskins and ROR units as FLC. Many people will see it as fair, but it's equally reasonable to see these as units intentionally held back from the monogod factions (particularly the Chaos warriors and chosen of Slaanesh & Nurgle). It's noticicable how many youtubers are remarking about how this dlc makes the base game factions more fun, because the factions were sold unfinished.
@@mrhelzbygrad7485 wait are you talking about mono-gods or WoC?
yeah obviously WoC were unfinished but in what way was monogods unfinished? their rosters are as big as any other launch roster and in some cases bigger while still having their own identity to them. I don't know why they would ever "hold back" units especially ones like these from their launch roster especially since the game has been out far longer anyway. also the comparison of RoR just doesn't fly. the absolute vast majority of RoRs are literal recolors while this has new assets entirely. also units as FLC come in literally one or a few units. marked mortal units is like 50 units and thats ALOT more then any other faction has gotten
@@mrhelzbygrad7485 also how the hell could use reskin 4 monsters like that. all the monsters you mentioned would need their own models, animations and effects
Wrong, champions of chaos are not free. I had to pay despite having ALL three games and ALL DLC.
Why should it be free?
DLC is over 50% more expensive than previous lord packs. I picked it up for $12 which is why I was willing to purchase. 1 new model and recycled mechanics are not worth $16.
I hope CA realizes what a spit in the eye this price gouging is and cut it out going forward. I know for me personally I will not be recommending this dlc unless I am blown away by it - at least 50% more impressed 😉.