Practicing Astrology Before Your Saturn Return
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- In episode 229 of the podcast, astrologers Leisa Schaim and Chris Brennan discuss whether age is a relevant prerequisite for practicing astrology, and if it is ok to read charts for clients prior to your Saturn return.
The premise of the discussion is that a debate comes up occasionally in the astrological community over how old a person should be to do consultations. Usually astrologers start off by reading charts for friends and family members for free early in their studies, but then eventually the process of starting to charge for astrological readings is seen as a major step or transition point in one's path as an astrologer.
Since astrology is a largely unregulated field, each astrologer ultimately has to decide on their own when they are ready to start seeing clients. When this topic is discussed among professionals, lots of different criteria are usually suggested for determining when a person is “ready”, and occasionally age is put forward as a potential criteria or a requirement for practicing.
This piece of criteria is then sometimes proposed as a sort of rule or prohibition: that astrologers shouldn’t see clients until they reach or after Saturn return, which occurs between the ages of 27 and 30.
While this rule is not generally accepted in the astrological community, as a proposal it sometimes elicits strong reactions from younger astrologers, since it would essentially mean that astrologers can’t or shouldn't do consultations until their 30s.
A debate about this recently broke out on Twitter, and the goal of this episode was to talk about the general topic, without necessarily focusing on the recent debate itself. It is an interesting topic that comes up in the community from time to time, and in some ways it is more relevant now after the large influx of younger astrologers into the community over the past few years.
As a former 20-something astrologer and past President of the Association for Young Astrologers, Chris has a strong opinion that astrologers should be able to practice astrology in their 20s, although our goal here was to try to present some of the pros and cons on both sides of the issue.
See the episode description for for more information:
theastrologypod...
#TheAstrologyPodcast
Relevant links for this episode:
🪐youngastrologers.org
🪐saturnreturnstories.com
🪐theastrologypodcast.com/tag/saturn-return/
Thank you for your dedication Chris and the rest of your crew. I am doing my very first consultation this week and I’m feeling very nervous and excited!
@@geenadavis4993 - Awesome, good luck!
Really enjoy listening to your discussions! I've been taking astrology seriously for 2 years, but only 1 year of real study. Relating this discussion to my tarot studies, when I was in my 20's I could read. But now I'm in my 40's, I could do a 30 minute reading with just one card, pulling on life experiences, rather than more cards. I think age is a factor, but it's more about depth and maturity. I'm wanting certification for my own reasons, and would like to be judged by my peers before I feel 'professional'... My view is, how conscious a person is, is just as important as how much they've studied, even more so than the years in their life. Wisdom, is an important part of astrology.
Being transparent to your clients about the amount of years you’ve been studying and the resources you’ve used is essential.
The Uranus in Aquarius/Pluto in Sagg generation are picking up astrology very easily! Im impressed.
It’s hard to take an astrologer seriously in their young 20s and counts all their many years of experience because they started with tarot at 10 years old. When there are hints that their personal life is a mess is also a red flag.
Thank you!
This was definitely interesting in hindsight and I wouldn’t have much to say because it was covered so well.
What probably made me actually listen to this episode was randomly reading an article written by an astrologer who quit astrology because they viewed astrology as being toxic due to it being fatalistic where, when actually reading it, it’s just pop astrology which is mentioned on these episodes about fear of Saturn returns and Mercury retrogrades. I don’t think said astrologer should have been practicing astrology to begin with if these issues suddenly became a problem.
This episode to me was interesting in hindsight because it’s more obvious now than before that (like said in the episode) that much is just hyper competitiveness in astrology. Said in later episodes, the scorpio generation isn’t the young cool kids anymore and the Sagittarius generation has a nice head start others didn’t have. I’m in the Saturn return camp not as a weird ban but astrology being vast and sometime when a person matured in Saturn return style they’ll be more “specialized” in terms of what area of astrology they’d be more into developing further and (an actual minor issue) attitudes towards social and political life can change where I see some of it as potential issues later. Everyone has a subjective bias which can influence reading, but if it’s just reading/interpreting charts anyone at any age can do it. It depends on what it is the astrologer is doing. Many people at a very young age can be more objective than a 60-70 year old, it just depends. A Saturn return isn’t a solid bench mark either. I just view it as a good period after mainly for clarity in terms of what field they want to focus on to go further plus.. I have no doubts about Chris being extremely objective, but Chris has also said project hindsight made him question free will. It’s something that takes a level of maturity sometimes especially because (culturally) we’re taught that us and us alone are responsible for our life circumstances and it’s all about effort. My issues tend to only be around micro astrology, not with memes. Memes are possibly a great method of teaching since archetypes are kind of.. well, memes. Dawkins philosophy on memes are more or less a “meh” version of an archetype. It’s a meme within itself, sort of redundant rebranding.
I’ve seen (sadly) a few cases of this astrologer competition resort to attempts of public smearing which is something likely to get worse as astrology grows, but hopefully it’ll tone down.
With legitimate concerns, I think it’s a void debate because the problems resolve themselves. If I felt better going to an older astrologer I’d just do that. I’d just suggest someone know what they’d want a reading for and find the astrologer that fits that mold. I believe in reincarnation, but I wouldn’t have any interest in having my chart read to find past life indicators. I MAY do so if I wanted to look into what methods they use if those indicators actually exist. It wouldn’t be a fields I’d want interpreted. Guests on this podcast, I like all of them. I will admit if I went down a road to get a reading some may not be a good fit; it doesn’t mean they’re not good at what they do or they may intuit something chart wise I may not see or have a perspective. I may just hold a view “the style this astrologer has may struggle a little with my 7th house interpretation” if that was an area I was wanting looked at.
I love the nodes, but I’d be extremely picky about seeing an astrologer related to them. If I was an astrologer a client may be 😳 with my own preferences of interpretation especially because I absolutely love Pluto. Even though I’m picky about nodes, I thoroughly enjoy astrologer views on my own axis (1st-7th). I’ll share a story that I’ve mentioned in a comment. A long term close friend happens to have HEAVY nodal connections and we nearly dated back in the day. Different paths, reconnected in our mid 20’s and stayed friends because of very different values. A relationship would destroy the friendship and I’ll joke I don’t like blondes anymore. An ongoing joke prior to learning the nodes is how I have reactive preferences in terms of type so I used to make mild comments about her friends because she’d get mad/concerned because bad relationships with friends stresses the friendship. That interpretation of 1st rahu, 7th Ketu is sort of right, but not entirely. Twin flames is the older than snot idea that humans used to be hermaphrodites eventually splitting into 2 sexes that, in psychological terms, created psychological splitting (aka split soul). Splitting used simply/loosely as also part of the anima/animus concept. Soul being drive as both Jung and Freud’s drives. That sex drives, etc, cause internal/external conflicts and desire to feel “complete” is sort of the fall from Grace by said splitting. Anyways, soul mates/twin flames.. same thing. New age ideology of twin flames is toxic modernly; in general it’s not. It fits the 1st-7th node axis in the sense that it can surface as “once the honeymoon is over, they can get detached and bored”. It’s wanting to actually DO something so the pisces 7th with Jupiter in cancer 11th has that “twin flame” mold and I have a strong “commitment” chart. I’d be picky about synastry/relationship astrologers and node interpretations.
But that doesn’t mean anyone who reads something differently is a bad astrologer, just some of the pop astrologers fall into (most likely by accident) irresponsible reads but that’s just because trying to be general can lead to that. There isn’t much anyone can do about that.
Last story. For fun. When I had my Saturn return I would have younger friends later go through there’s where I wondered why my own was taking so long and so difficult; it wasn’t until years later (very recent) that I noticed I was having several rough outer planet transits and the Saturn return wasn’t bad at all. Listening to this, I started applying that relate to house systems since I thought maybe it may clear up if Saturn is in the 12th or 1st, it’s theme was so much a 12th. Well, if Saturn is still close enough to be conjunct sun and Mercury regardless of house system they’d just kind of overlap anyways. Saturn hitting the 12th sun/merc then slamming the 1st house with all kinds of crazy stuff outer planet wise.. My opinion on astrology and Saturn returns changed. My most important transit was actually when Uranus was going wild direct and retrograde for who knows how long on my lots of spirit, necessity, and Nemesis. Maybe I’ll adopt that as the optimal astrologer period to be difficult. “You can’t understand astrology until you’ve had 7 years of Uranus transits over these specific Lots!”
You two are thorough.. great job.
I came across this video and just started laughing I'm 26 so this message spoke to me
Leisa has Saturn in 11th House for a day chart?
I started out charging $5 for hand-drawn charts in 1978 (pre-computer calculations) which sounds crazy low nowadays but I was also making $3.10/hr at Foxy’s Burger Bar. 🤣 I was 17 at the time.
I don't get what all the fuss is about with Saturn returns. In fact I think it's kind of cute that people worry themselves about it. All that happened to me with my 7th house Saturn return was that my marriage ended, so it's not like only bad things happen.
@D K I'm not going to have to explain irony now, am I?
Simon Dyda 😂 lol
This actually made me laugh out loud.
😂
😂🤣 I almost shot soda out of my nose!
Taking the example of Theosophist Geoffrey Hodson, I do not charge for my (astrological) service when asked. I tend to see astrology as a spiritual function and do not mix materialistic motives or money-exchange as part of the equation. I am honored that people should choose me to consult them on deep matters such as astrological advice or information (based on the astrologer's unique background & perspective). I would not think of charging any financial fee for my (ultimately) spiritual advice and services! : ).....Think about it..... However, if a client insists on reciprocating materially (say, the Libra function), then I suggest he or she send what they want to a donation of their choice, anonymously, if possible, such as a postal money order.
Very interesting topic and I agree with you both, you really have to consider how long the person has been studying, what that means to them personally (casual vs full time study) and, of course, the sources of information throughout that period of study. Practice is also so important and that period where a student gives free readings to friends, family, etc is also a very valuable part of the learning process. Thank you for consistently sharing such thoughtful conversations in your astrology podcast! :)
I started my studies in 2007. After my saturn returned I found Chris, and I must say, Saturn return was a HUGE turning point in my ability to understand a chart.
just now stumbled across this episode, after having a discussion about how my intuition hit so much harder after my saturn return.
I'm 17, i have been studying astrology for 4 years
Another amazing video from Chris and Leisa！Thank you. Totally agree there's never a time where you can say you mastered everything in astrology cuz it evolves around the ever changing nature of people, events topics and human psyche. It is a moving dynamic science that can't really be precisely measured or predicted by numbers or words or other traditional parameters. Only when heart and heart connect, one can understand, experience and truly live the magic of messages the stars have been telling you!
tbh i think you have to go through your saturn return to really understand through experience certain things (As someone currently going through my saturn return)
Love your podcast of 2 even 3 hours, I think they are deep and goes to point been descriptive as they are. I started in astrology at the age of 28 just right after my saturn return.
I didn't even get into astrology until right after my Saturn return last year
i always loved astrology but i didnt become obsessed with it until my saturn return
I started at the age of 37… something in Trigger me when I ended my Relationship
I’m 20. Going on 21 next year. I’ve been into astrology all my life. Understanding astrology comes very natural to me
I feel like I just have a very deep connection with the planets to the point where even my period syncs up with actual moon cycles. I can feel all planetary changes very deeply. I believe we are cosmic beings.
1:03:57 i don't think we should dismiss the fact that we can learn how to teach better over time as well, and there's more variations for how things are taught as more people attempt to teach. but really, teaching can be refined generation by generation in which people learn new way to explain or synthesize two different ways of explaining the same thing
Feeling vaguely called out by this, especially the part near the end 😄
I’ve been fascinated with astrology since I was 13 years old, back in 1991 (Pluto in Libra generation) and have studied, with varying degrees of intensity, ever since. But I still feel like there is so much I do not know that I don’t feel comfortable charging for consultations. I do agree that it really helps with learning though, so I do do them, for free/ in exchange for something.
Maybe I’ll be ready to charge after my second Saturn return 😂
Just a quick comment about the understanding of "Guru" ( aprox. min 51:00) The root words are GU and RU. GU means darkness RU means to dispell, to remove. Thus Guru can be translated as "Remover of Darkness", a person who helps another person to see/feel/be light, a person who helps another person on the way to illumination. An astrologer can well be a Guru in the instant he/she is interpreting a chart, bringing light into his/her clients understanding of their personality and life experience. Thank you for this podcast Chris and Leisa, very much appreciated***
If you always had to have a completely personal experience, no one would be able to read anyone else's chart...
I've always found astrology fascinating. Currently I'm working on my own chart. The fun part is the sun and moon changed on my birthday plus i don't know my exact time so to find my rising sign I've been learning more about all the signs and how they resonate with me.
You 2 are so cute together sharing experiences on video! and I agree with everything about the topic of the video. I appreciate the words of Leisa, she should do more videos with u!
Hi,
Can you please recommend the best ephemera to buy?
Thanks!
Debbi Buegeleisen
I mean ephemeris.
Debbi
I love the leadership you have Chris
Proof is in the pudding....
Thank you 🙏
There are truly old souls who I have been impressed with their abilities to intuitively read charts. I wouldn't want to limit their exploration of interpretation by saying you can't read a chart until you go through a Saturn return. I would encourage responsibility with their delivery of what they have to offer. I have experienced folks who have Saturn return 1 or 2 times in life and not carry much wisdom compared to some of the young ones who are old souls. Just my opinion. Isn't it important for the client to take some responsibility for who they get their reading from and what they choose to do with the information? I think it's funny that this subject is such a Saturn topic to begin with.
also i'm one of those weird kids who got interested in my "big 3" when i was really young like 11/12 young (2008 i think) and i figured them out and wrote down their significations over like 5 pages in a journal, and that triggered a very.... casual relationship with astrology where i knew there was more, but i felt content and didn't delve more deeply until 2017 when i was 20 (veeeery beginning of 2017 like january) and i think within the first 6 months i found your podcast because i was just looking around for stuff, then after a year i bought your book, and then another year passed and i enrolled in one of your courses and planning to enroll in more when i finish the one i'm in right now. i didn't find any transits indicating as such, but i might have found something in the zodiacal releasing for my lot of spirit that could indicate as such so who knows why
🤩