For any comments related to my SoD usage (in the opener,) my pot usage, the vanish bug, or the upcoming nerfs to the Sub legendaries, please see 30:14 in the video. - Marty
hello just started a sub rogue having a hard time managing energy any tips? even just during times where everything is on CD and i am hitting backstab over and over to build up to envis i run out of energy during that time
This is probably the best guide by far for Subtlety rogue, easy to understand, good breakdown of stuff. and good scenario variation descriptions. Great vid man!
I have been watching a few rogue guides today and man... This by far is the best one. Really helped me understand the class without making it super confusing, thanks for that.
Great guide! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this. You've done a great job explaining everything without it being too complicated. Other videos I've watched are far to complicated and don't do a good job of breaking it down to a basic level. Yours was simple, so thank you for that!
Just returned to Rogue and I was sin before, Sub changes over the past few patches have made it my new favorite class. Getting hotkeys right and weak auras proper is still a bit of a challenge but it's going to work out just fine. My issue with the class is finding groups. I am competitive and like to push my characters dps and so heroic / mythic raid content is something that always presents challenges. Finding a group not so much but finding a group of players I actually enjoy playing with. Thank you for the informative video.
Thanks for your guide man. Just leveled up my rogue since i got bored of my demon hunter. Coming from a 3 button class to rogue it's a very fun playstyle. I was a bit overwhelmed at first, but your video cleared things up.
Great video, I was really confused about this spec, it really needs a lot of practice, but since my first leggo were the shoulders I guess that's the spec I'm sticking with. Videp helped out a lot :)
this is exactly what i needed thanks alot. been playing assassination since the xpac same out and have not touched sub at all besides the hidden skins haha
Small change I would add to future videos concerning openers; highlight your CP generators, spenders, and cooldowns in different colours. Helps the brain "chunk" the info. I found myself practicing your 21-step opener in seperate segments - all of which ended in Eviscerates/Night Blades.
Thank you so much! I love my rogue and have played him since vanilla. Took a break from the class to check out demon hunter (i know im sorry! please forgive me!:) and played that for basically all of legion, but now i want to return to my rogue once again. This guide REALLY helped with getting started!
hi Marty great video , i was looking at setting up a rouge yesterday but after watching 10 or so vids on sub rouge it put me off as it was to hard lol. your guide is clears and precise so im going to give sub a go now thank you
ohh dude i finally got the rotation for this, i was playing outlaw in 7.1.5 and now its even worst in this patch i struggle to maintain 700k ST and i have both BIS legendaries and im 913 ilv, once i get the bracers in subt it will be really fun
Hi, really a great guide! Thanks for that:) Would you mind to put your weakauras in the description? They could really help me managing all the cooldowns :)
The two builds for sub rogue are DFA and MFD. DFA uses master of sub, and MFD uses weaponmaster. The only reason DFA doesnt use weaponmaster is its bugged, so if WM procs from DFA both the WM proc and the buffed evis finisher from DFA never land.
Great video. Your recommendation of Old War as opener pot flies in the face of all other guides I've seen and the prevailing opinion on Discord. Can you confirm? Edit: I see your addendum at the end of the video explaining more. Thanks.
Heya dude, was wondering if there's any chance you share your WeakAuras :) they're big enough to notic everything :) Great video, great work. thank you !
Hey man awesome video!! Would you be able to link what addons you are using for your UI and the settings (specifically the ones showing major cooldowns and debuf timers)? :)
Such a great Video. I am currently debating on maining rouge, they fit all my criteria on what I look for a in a raid toon. However one thing I have never played melee and would honestly way I don't feel like I have ever played such a complicated class. Do you think that someone who strives to consistently get cutting edge would be able to pick up a rouge and be mythic ready in between a single raid tier?
awesome guide man just subscribed . just got back to sub after i played it casual in 7.2, is there any way i get a hand on ur UI, more importantly ur WA's for SoD, nightblade etc.?
One question I have is why not take Marked for Death? You said the 50% stronger eviscerate was why DfA was better but wouldn’t being able to cast 2 eviscerates one after another essentially be a 100% stronger one? Is it just cause the cd is longer?
I know everyone is saying rogues are legendary dependant but nobody seems to be throwing numbers out there. I don't have the 2 best leggos and am wondering how much of an increase I will see if I ever do get them, currently I only have KJ's burning wish and soul of the shadowblade, with the crafted boots. please any info would be wonderful
First off GREAT guide!! Thanks for the hard work! Had a question though. There are times when i have my SoD coming off CD. But my nightblade is about to run out. Should i build back up to 5-6 CP and nightblade or should i go straight into the DfA combo without a nightblade buff on target?
You should never run into this. To avoid it, you should refresh your NB in the CP cycle before that one. If you are going to run into that, just refresh NB instead of that last Evis you used. Its better to replace like an 8 sec NB than run into that. - Marty
Hello I am new in subtlety spec after really long period like an Assa and have a problem :) in Shadowdance burst window I can use only two Shadow strikes and one Eviscerate not SS,SS,EVis,SS like you.. dont know what i am doing wrong ... my stats: crit 32, haste 10, mastery 86, versa 8 .. ilvl 892 .. no legies
Hey! Awesome guide. I have one small question. How do you have both shadowstrike and nightblade on the same button? Tried making a macro but it I can't get it to change picture and tooltip when shadowstrike is available.
With lego shoulders, wouldn't it be better to switch 11,12,13 in your opener rotation to Shadowstrike, Vanish, Shadowstrike->DFA->Dance rotation? Currently it would be banking on shadow techniques for the 6th combo point for the dfa instead of guaranteeing 6 from the two Shadowstrikes.
Yes that is a common way to do it. I go back and forth on this. The ST essentially always procs there and so it's not s real problem. I do it for energy reasons. Without lust it can be hard to get it all in. After I land and do the two SS sometimes I short on energy to hit the evis your way. But in short, yes that is a popular way to open and viable. - Marty
After testing it over and over again on training dummy, I wasn't seeing any issue with hitting the 6 before dfa with the st proc, so more than likely it's overcapping combo points doing it with the SS->vanish->SS->DFA. They were roughly the same damage as well. I didn't see any energy issue though, actually came close to overcapping at points. Outside of opener on single target, do you prefer vanish->SS->DFA or just vanish-DFA?
Hello Exiled. great guide ! I have a question tho. Do you try to use DFA with as many combo points stacked as possible? or you just use it as soon as everything lines up with maybe 1-2 combo points ? i mean,should I aim for that or just use on CD as soon as everything comes off cooldown? thank you!
Thanks for the guide, I was wondering what to do after the opener when everything is on cd but you have dances every few finishers. Do you save a shadow dance + symbols for every time dfa is coming off cooldown or just use what you have on cd? Thanks again for the guide it helped a lot
great guide :-) just one question, what about tier sets? I reactivated my Rogue, he had 4 set from nighthold, and now I changed to 4 set ToS. And I realized how comfortable the 2 set from nighthold was. without the longer nightblade duration I often see the situation that Nightblade run out too fast and I have to delay my burst window because of that. Do you think double 2set is better to play than 4set t20? I "only" have the Shoulder legendary and the Satyr Boots, so unequipping shoulder for a tset shoulder is not an option right now, to get 4 set t20 AND 2set t19 :-/
T20 with Lego shoulders is better than 2p 4p even though it's less comfortable. Some people try that build but it's not simming as the top build and to pull it off you need high Ilvl nighthold tier (915+). I agree having nighthold 2p feels better, but you have to be in a very particular situation to try it. - Marty
After using DFA and shadowdance followed by the first shadow strike Im usually energy deprived for the second shadowstrike. Anyone else? Im I going through the rotation too fast for the opener?
It can be tight on energy. I like to take advantage of the belf passive here. With some practice I think you'll work these timings out. If you really can't get it right now, just wait 2 seconds before you vanish. Shouldn't be that big of a loss, and should help with that. - Marty
For any comments related to my SoD usage (in the opener,) my pot usage, the vanish bug, or the upcoming nerfs to the Sub legendaries, please see 30:14 in the video. - Marty
hello just started a sub rogue having a hard time managing energy any tips? even just during times where everything is on CD and i am hitting backstab over and over to build up to envis i run out of energy during that time
This is probably the best guide by far for Subtlety rogue, easy to understand, good breakdown of stuff. and good scenario variation descriptions. Great vid man!
I have been watching a few rogue guides today and man... This by far is the best one. Really helped me understand the class without making it super confusing, thanks for that.
Great guide! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this. You've done a great job explaining everything without it being too complicated. Other videos I've watched are far to complicated and don't do a good job of breaking it down to a basic level. Yours was simple, so thank you for that!
Thanks, I appreciate the support. - Marty
Amazing guide, Sub rogues are really complicated but your video explains everything perfectly, marvelous
Nice Guide, as a former rogue player im really tempted to start one again.
Just returned to Rogue and I was sin before, Sub changes over the past few patches have made it my new favorite class. Getting hotkeys right and weak auras proper is still a bit of a challenge but it's going to work out just fine. My issue with the class is finding groups. I am competitive and like to push my characters dps and so heroic / mythic raid content is something that always presents challenges. Finding a group not so much but finding a group of players I actually enjoy playing with. Thank you for the informative video.
Thanks for your guide man. Just leveled up my rogue since i got bored of my demon hunter. Coming from a 3 button class to rogue it's a very fun playstyle. I was a bit overwhelmed at first, but your video cleared things up.
Trip Nils I'm coming from a rogue now going to play a demon hunter. You-motivate me to play one bc of the 3 button spam lol
If you're only pressing 3 buttons you are not playing dh right lol
Are you really trying to tell me that it's not?
Great video, I was really confused about this spec, it really needs a lot of practice, but since my first leggo were the shoulders I guess that's the spec I'm sticking with. Videp helped out a lot :)
Brilliant video. Very thorough and informative.
Huge thanks for this guide. I really understand the burst windows now, great job Marty, thanks again!
really good quality video man ! im levelling my rogue for the first time since legion because of this video Thankyou :)
this is exactly what i needed thanks alot. been playing assassination since the xpac same out and have not touched sub at all besides the hidden skins haha
Nice Video. Really good job of explaining theory. I really like the the bar on the top and how you break the video down to segments.
Great video Marty! Thanks man. Keep up the good work.
Thanks man. - Marty
Dude..solid vid. Thanks for a thorough breakdown with each topic.
Small change I would add to future videos concerning openers; highlight your CP generators, spenders, and cooldowns in different colours. Helps the brain "chunk" the info. I found myself practicing your 21-step opener in seperate segments - all of which ended in Eviscerates/Night Blades.
the best overall guide I've ever seen on aby class .. man ur awesome!
Thank you so much! I love my rogue and have played him since vanilla. Took a break from the class to check out demon hunter (i know im sorry! please forgive me!:) and played that for basically all of legion, but now i want to return to my rogue once again. This guide REALLY helped with getting started!
That's awesome. Really glad I could help. Good luck with your rogue! - Marty
Great Vid man! I just came back to playing during 7.2.5 and trying to make the move to sub this video made things simple =D
Bro thank u ,i was doing terrible dps now i burst 2.5M + and 1M cont for sure . Ur guide id ez af to understand . Thanx again love u 😘😘😘😘
Thats the first Rogue Guide that rly helped me lol
hi Marty
great video , i was looking at setting up a rouge yesterday but after watching 10 or so vids on sub rouge it put me off as it was to hard lol. your guide is clears and precise so im going to give sub a go now thank you
I appreciate that. Good luck! You'll get it with some practice. - Marty
Just what i was looking for, thanks a lot, great video!
Exactly what i was looking for, great video
Excellent guide. Thank you so very much!!!
It's a fairly complex spec then! But you make it simple to understand thank you.
Great video! Is there any way I can see the ui adding you're using to aid you for Sub rogue?
that is a beautiful opener. nice video I learned a lot. thank you
ohh dude i finally got the rotation for this, i was playing outlaw in 7.1.5 and now its even worst in this patch i struggle to maintain 700k ST and i have both BIS legendaries and im 913 ilv, once i get the bracers in subt it will be really fun
Hi, really a great guide! Thanks for that:)
Would you mind to put your weakauras in the description?
They could really help me managing all the cooldowns :)
Great guide! Thanks! :)
Great video, was hoping to get a link to the tmw or WA you use for all your cds in the middle of the screen. Thanks.
Concise guide. Thanks.
Fantastic guide, man. Detailed and well explained. Where would you put the Specter-trinket in the opener?
Somewhere around the first SD. - Marty
The two builds for sub rogue are DFA and MFD. DFA uses master of sub, and MFD uses weaponmaster. The only reason DFA doesnt use weaponmaster is its bugged, so if WM procs from DFA both the WM proc and the buffed evis finisher from DFA never land.
that was actually a pretty good guide very celar i learned a lot thanks you :)
Great video, would it be possible to share the weakaureas?
Men thank you so much really helping me a Lot great video
Great video. Your recommendation of Old War as opener pot flies in the face of all other guides I've seen and the prevailing opinion on Discord. Can you confirm?
Edit: I see your addendum at the end of the video explaining more. Thanks.
Thank you for the video!
@16 minutes for example when you see all your major cooldowns on your screen is that an add-on? would come in handy for me if it is.
Great video! Any chance you could link your elv ui strings please
Really awesome guide it did help me alot :D
Heya dude, was wondering if there's any chance you share your WeakAuras :) they're big enough to notic everything :)
Great video, great work. thank you !
Hey man awesome video!! Would you be able to link what addons you are using for your UI and the settings (specifically the ones showing major cooldowns and debuf timers)? :)
Any plans to post up the TMW profile? 😁
Such a great Video. I am currently debating on maining rouge, they fit all my criteria on what I look for a in a raid toon. However one thing I have never played melee and would honestly way I don't feel like I have ever played such a complicated class. Do you think that someone who strives to consistently get cutting edge would be able to pick up a rouge and be mythic ready in between a single raid tier?
Great guide thanks!
awesome guide man just subscribed . just got back to sub after i played it casual in 7.2, is there any way i get a hand on ur UI, more importantly ur WA's for SoD, nightblade etc.?
Great Guide!
One question I have is why not take Marked for Death? You said the 50% stronger eviscerate was why DfA was better but wouldn’t being able to cast 2 eviscerates one after another essentially be a 100% stronger one? Is it just cause the cd is longer?
What for relic do you recomend? increase critical strike on evisc for 30% or increase shadowstrike by 20%
hey great guide! about to start leveling my rogue and def gonna go sub! random question- what font are you using? thats exactly what im looking for.
nice guide, keep up the good work. can i download your WeakAura anywhere? and did 7.3 affect the build?
Hey @ExiledPower, I'd love to know what addons you are using to track your cooldowns next to your health plate? DfA, SD, GB, Vanish and SofD
So following your build, what rotation do you recommend using in the hit crit shoulder window with a vanish that is not used in your opener?
Can you post a video on your Weak Aura like a how to
Great video! I'm new to rogue and this helped... Any chance we can get your weakauras?
What addon do you use to get that health bar and track your cds next to it?
Great video man thanks. How come tier 20 has so much haste on it?
I know everyone is saying rogues are legendary dependant but nobody seems to be throwing numbers out there. I don't have the 2 best leggos and am wondering how much of an increase I will see if I ever do get them, currently I only have KJ's burning wish and soul of the shadowblade, with the crafted boots. please any info would be wonderful
First off GREAT guide!! Thanks for the hard work! Had a question though. There are times when i have my SoD coming off CD. But my nightblade is about to run out. Should i build back up to 5-6 CP and nightblade or should i go straight into the DfA combo without a nightblade buff on target?
You should never run into this. To avoid it, you should refresh your NB in the CP cycle before that one. If you are going to run into that, just refresh NB instead of that last Evis you used. Its better to replace like an 8 sec NB than run into that. - Marty
Hello I am new in subtlety spec after really long period like an Assa and have a problem :) in Shadowdance burst window I can use only two Shadow strikes and one Eviscerate not SS,SS,EVis,SS like you.. dont know what i am doing wrong ... my stats: crit 32, haste 10, mastery 86, versa 8 .. ilvl 892 .. no legies
whats your weakaura?
anyway you c an list the addons your using? the rogue combo bar, the energy bar title frame and also the combat font addon?
great video! do you have a profile for your Tell me When trackers?
Hi, your WA seems pretty nice. Is it possible to find it somewhere?
Hey! Awesome guide. I have one small question. How do you have both shadowstrike and nightblade on the same button? Tried making a macro but it I can't get it to change picture and tooltip when shadowstrike is available.
Not sure what you mean, I don't have those abilities on the same button. - Marty
good guide! one question, why do you use your first shadow dance for an eviscerate instead of a dfa combo?
nice guide man
I wish I knew the addons he was using they are so badass.
Awsome vid, been waiting for a good guide until i tried sub, your weak aura's would also help out alot, do you have a string for them? Cheers man
Unfortunately no they aren't WA so I cannot output them. - Marty
Oh ok, what addon is it then?
thx for the guid
-greetings from germany
Im your opener, its actually better to vanish > ss > dfa. At 3cp so you also use your free ss from vanish and still get all the other benefits
It is better to do that if you are abusing the bug. If not, break vanish with DFA because it won't break until part way through the animation. - Marty
Exiled Power alright, i thought it would be better even if you didnt abuse the bug because you get that extra ss. But thanks for the info
You actually don't get the extra SS, you lose one, because you spend the extra GCD in the very long DFA animation that way. - Marty
Thanks very helpful!
Love the guide man, thanks. What's the addon you have that has your cooldowns displayed in the middle of your screen?
I did that using Tell Me When. - Marty
With lego shoulders, wouldn't it be better to switch 11,12,13 in your opener rotation to Shadowstrike, Vanish, Shadowstrike->DFA->Dance rotation? Currently it would be banking on shadow techniques for the 6th combo point for the dfa instead of guaranteeing 6 from the two Shadowstrikes.
Yes that is a common way to do it. I go back and forth on this. The ST essentially always procs there and so it's not s real problem. I do it for energy reasons. Without lust it can be hard to get it all in. After I land and do the two SS sometimes I short on energy to hit the evis your way. But in short, yes that is a popular way to open and viable. - Marty
After testing it over and over again on training dummy, I wasn't seeing any issue with hitting the 6 before dfa with the st proc, so more than likely it's overcapping combo points doing it with the SS->vanish->SS->DFA. They were roughly the same damage as well. I didn't see any energy issue though, actually came close to overcapping at points.
Outside of opener on single target, do you prefer vanish->SS->DFA or just vanish-DFA?
I prefer van dfa if you don't use the bug. But with the bug it's better to use SS first. - Marty
Hey i was wondering are you using weakauras or tell me when for you trackers ?
Hello Exiled. great guide ! I have a question tho. Do you try to use DFA with as many combo points stacked as possible? or you just use it as soon as everything lines up with maybe 1-2 combo points ? i mean,should I aim for that or just use on CD as soon as everything comes off cooldown? thank you!
Thanks for the guide, I was wondering what to do after the opener when everything is on cd but you have dances every few finishers. Do you save a shadow dance + symbols for every time dfa is coming off cooldown or just use what you have on cd? Thanks again for the guide it helped a lot
best video on the subject.
Writed down version would be nice
great guide :-) just one question, what about tier sets? I reactivated my Rogue, he had 4 set from nighthold, and now I changed to 4 set ToS. And I realized how comfortable the 2 set from nighthold was. without the longer nightblade duration I often see the situation that Nightblade run out too fast and I have to delay my burst window because of that. Do you think double 2set is better to play than 4set t20? I "only" have the Shoulder legendary and the Satyr Boots, so unequipping shoulder for a tset shoulder is not an option right now, to get 4 set t20 AND 2set t19 :-/
T20 with Lego shoulders is better than 2p 4p even though it's less comfortable. Some people try that build but it's not simming as the top build and to pull it off you need high Ilvl nighthold tier (915+). I agree having nighthold 2p feels better, but you have to be in a very particular situation to try it. - Marty
Wouldnt it make sense to SoD & Shadow Dance at the same time (macro’d) while midflight DFA?
Got a vid on addons you use to trach stuff?
Great video! i subbed
Thanks man! - Marty
What WeakAura do you use to track all of that? Could a link be possible?
where did you find that weakauras? please need it now!
is it possible to get a link to your weakauras?
Do I only want to use DFA during burst or can I use it whenever it's up?
Do you have your weak auras posted? I have a bad weak auras set up and would like to see yours
Hi, where can i find the weakauras that you are using?
would like to know that as well :)
wasnt it always crit>vers>mastery or am i just plain out wrong?
After using DFA and shadowdance followed by the first shadow strike Im usually energy deprived for the second shadowstrike. Anyone else? Im I going through the rotation too fast for the opener?
It can be tight on energy. I like to take advantage of the belf passive here. With some practice I think you'll work these timings out. If you really can't get it right now, just wait 2 seconds before you vanish. Shouldn't be that big of a loss, and should help with that. - Marty
@Exiled Power if you could post your weakauras that would be even more helpfull ;)
This is better: wago.io/VkcUyO8t-
Possible for you to post your weakauras
Awasome video man.
Is there a posibillity to lay my hands on your UI and WA ?
Hello, can i somehow get your ElvUi Setup? Like download a profile or something. Great video btw