So many brilliant soundbites and quotes that I've never heard any other Christian thinker say. E.g. ‘I think Constantine is genuine, that he had a vision, and spends the rest of his life trying to figure out what it is that he signed up to.’ (16:10 mins) ‘What makes the churches distinctive is that they believe all kinds of completely mad stuff.’ (31.30) ...AND 'There’s an appeal and a glamour and a swagger to Roman power that you don’t get in the figure of some broken scruff nailed to a plank of wood.' (35.30) Also Tom shares the amazing experience he had in a desecrated Armenian church in Iraq... (39 mins in) Thanks so much for sharing this, Tom and Andy.
I’d be interested to know how Tom sees Avicenna (Ibn Sina) fitting into the scheme of things. He wasn’t from the Christian West but was nonetheless so brilliant … Christendom benefitted from his knowledge. Also the mathematics and geometry which arose in Greece and Egypt make me think Christianity’s claim to some kind of superiority are debatable…
I'd argue that andreas vesalius was way more influential in medicine than avicenna. Christianity's more revolutionary claims are those of morals and the understanding of the world, the reason why they did maths and geometry, often mentioned by holland are different and wouldn't uphold here in the modern world.
I go to liberal churches but the reverends/ vicars still dive deep into the "weirdness" of Christianity. The meaning of Jesus's life and death on the cross etc... In the past people went to church more but they still practiced unChristian traits all the time. The way Kings would fight wars for essentially personal/ family gains. The way some industrialists treated their workers. It's easy for modern day Christians to think we live in a "Godless" age but actually maybe we're just not as hypocritical? Victorians could sit in the pews and then send the poor to workhouses.
while you are free to say whatever you like as an invite to give a talk,please sir ,don`t talk nonsense;atheism is as old as humanity or go back to ancient Greek philosophers and acquaint yourself with their opinions,before you befuddle already woolyheade audience
And who said that atheism is new? It's not about how old it is but what contemporary atheists believe in what their moral code is and this is linked to Christianity.
@@gosiachaaban2484well he said this, bs;only linked only by contrast.Beside ,go into the origins of christianity,get to know the history of its "birth pangs"and then talk about morality,OK?
@@misscameroon8062 he certainly knows about ancient Greek philispohers and their opinions, you are not serious suggesting otherwise, right? Probably read some of them in their original language or at least has the ability to do so. It might be annoying to hear what you don't agree with but no need to get nonsensical and use derogatory language etc. Take care
@@gosiachaaban2484 No ,I seriously don`t give a shit what he knows ,once he starts talkin about atheism as a modern day phenomenon,while the disbelief in existence of gods is as old as humanity beginning to ponder on this subject .He evidently has an agenda ,which I vehemently am opposed to;I do not respect any apologist of the abrahamic religions with their claim to priority or universality of their assertions,that`s all.Likewise,pay attention ,to what is being said ,instead of inserting your own prejudiced assumptions.Fare thee well.
Good talk!
So many brilliant soundbites and quotes that I've never heard any other Christian thinker say. E.g. ‘I think Constantine is genuine, that he had a vision, and spends the rest of his life trying to figure out what it is that he signed up to.’ (16:10 mins) ‘What makes the churches distinctive is that they believe all kinds of completely mad stuff.’ (31.30) ...AND 'There’s an appeal and a glamour and a swagger to Roman power that you don’t get in the figure of some broken scruff nailed to a plank of wood.' (35.30) Also Tom shares the amazing experience he had in a desecrated Armenian church in Iraq... (39 mins in) Thanks so much for sharing this, Tom and Andy.
Couldn't agree more. Tom is so important. I am losing patience for Christians who claim to be into history but choose not to get into his stuff.
I’d be interested to know how Tom sees Avicenna (Ibn Sina) fitting into the scheme of things. He wasn’t from the Christian West but was nonetheless so brilliant … Christendom benefitted from his knowledge. Also the mathematics and geometry which arose in Greece and Egypt make me think Christianity’s claim to some kind of superiority are debatable…
I'd argue that andreas vesalius was way more influential in medicine than avicenna. Christianity's more revolutionary claims are those of morals and the understanding of the world, the reason why they did maths and geometry, often mentioned by holland are different and wouldn't uphold here in the modern world.
I go to liberal churches but the reverends/ vicars still dive deep into the "weirdness" of Christianity. The meaning of Jesus's life and death on the cross etc... In the past people went to church more but they still practiced unChristian traits all the time. The way Kings would fight wars for essentially personal/ family gains. The way some industrialists treated their workers. It's easy for modern day Christians to think we live in a "Godless" age but actually maybe we're just not as hypocritical? Victorians could sit in the pews and then send the poor to workhouses.
while you are free to say whatever you like as an invite to give a talk,please sir ,don`t talk nonsense;atheism is as old as humanity or go back to ancient Greek philosophers and acquaint yourself with their opinions,before you befuddle already woolyheade audience
And who said that atheism is new? It's not about how old it is but what contemporary atheists believe in what their moral code is and this is linked to Christianity.
@@gosiachaaban2484well he said this, bs;only linked only by contrast.Beside ,go into the origins of christianity,get to know the history of its "birth pangs"and then talk about morality,OK?
@@misscameroon8062 he certainly knows about ancient Greek philispohers and their opinions, you are not serious suggesting otherwise, right? Probably read some of them in their original language or at least has the ability to do so. It might be annoying to hear what you don't agree with but no need to get nonsensical and use derogatory language etc. Take care
@@gosiachaaban2484 No ,I seriously don`t give a shit what he knows ,once he starts talkin about atheism as a modern day phenomenon,while the disbelief in existence of gods is as old as humanity beginning to ponder on this subject .He evidently has an agenda ,which I vehemently am opposed to;I do not respect any apologist of the abrahamic religions with their claim to priority or universality of their assertions,that`s all.Likewise,pay attention ,to what is being said ,instead of inserting your own prejudiced assumptions.Fare thee well.
You know that Tom Holland is a leading expert on various ancient civilisations. Are you?