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The weirdest thing with dragoon is that it goes from a ranged physical build to just being another magic build. It's arguably a worse summoner because different versions of the summoner have both physical skills and various magic skills that hit all enemies
@@JRPGSamurai found it by accident since I'm not optimising my save the most, I was having issues with sustaining MP for Hulkenberg and was deciding whether to prepare her to upgrade into expert Knight lineage later on and saw she needs Wizard lvl10, then I read that passive which I had ignored as it seemed a hassle early on when you can first get Wizard. It's not very busted but it's nice and you can turn Hulkenberg into a really tough tank early on without needing particularly busted equipment.
@@JRPGSamuraino problem, I think you should consider doing an archetype optimisation guide, which can possibly be a lot of videos. I watched a lot of your guides, like the Merchant guide was instrumental for me to even pick it up, but I ended up only leveling the MC on it for now. That is because even knowing how the setup should look like at the end it still takes planning for each character, the easiest resource to mismanage in this game is Magla because in optimal situations you don't want to waste extra days going back to some dungeon when there are more important things to do. Maybe consider a video/series of videos of how to prepare your party since the start if you're aiming for certain endgame setups. I know that there are farming points where you can farm infinite exp and money, but I'm already at 60 hours at the start of the Virgo Island quest and I feel like there's value in providing streamlined guidance towards specific goals because grinding does get tedious in some spots.
While certainly not as broken as some stuff described here, I had an easy time farming once I had the Soul Hacker. Just get the mana regen skill from sorcerer, inherit that and equip any auto stat boost item to you and a synth partner, so you both regen 10 mana each turn. Soul hacker also gets the passive from elemental master (I think?) that halves synth cost. Grats, your Trial of the Seeker is forever free and generating mana, while also being able to near one-shot (or even fully one shot) entire enemy groups in one attack. Even if some components of this are missing there are probably many ways to make this work and even to improve this.
@ Roots in the Overworld that sprout infinite enemies. Once you destroy the Roots, you get an Archetype EXP item. Especially in the final dungeon, this is valuable because the roots tend to explode and deal damage if you get too close.
Since i played a magic MC during my first playtrough i found Dragoon to be extremely powerful, more powerful then the mage's at the very least. Similar to mages they have crossbows which focus on different elements so planning accordingly you can just shred trough anything. Just remember to equip the highest damage weapon for boss fights and go to town with Draco Ray. Since i was a Magical MC i didn't really like the prince archetype, It's really powerful, but playing it as a Magic MC mean you turn yourself into a support... which ain't wrong but it didn't suit my needs when i finally acquired it. In a sense I'm happy i went mage since both of the physical team members are way better at being physical then the MC ever will be. Anyhow I'm just saying that dragoon is way more powerful then people claim it is, it's synergy moves are just devastating in the hands of a character with high magic stat. Sure it can be played as a physical using the mania bullet and barrage synergy skills and probably do more dmg to single targets as a result, considering it is easier to boost up pierce/physical then magic damage. Being weak to slash also hurts the archetype a fair bit.
Estoy hablando español por si no traduce XD. En mí opinión, también como dice el vídeo, mercader es la clase más fuerte de todo ya no es necesario usar uno de los recursos más escasos (mana) y rompe la economía de juego, también he de decir que cuantas más veces pases el juego más fácil es hacer una build ya que más amuletos de X2 al daño crítico tienes, como dato diría que Heasmay me parece mejor Masked dancer que Junah, ya que la única utilidad que encuentro es que sea lo más rapida posible, haciendo que le puedo poner Third eye y a veces esquive algún golpe. Tendré que probar a usar 4 magnate para esta partida
Warrior up one, merchant down three and it’s perfect. Edit: Above applies to endgame, as pointed out by the creator, Warrior is not great mid game, and Berserker is not available early game, while Merchant is by far the best archetype Early - Mid game. Yes, it might only barely be a top 5 archetype endgame, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t the best overall.
@ No, I just actually test endgame mechanics myself instead of believing everyone online. Still the 4/5 th best archetype, so it’s amazing. But Royal Warrior is highest single target damage in the game potentially, Royal Berserker can have infinite turn icons / Wanton Destruction chain out dpsing Gold Rush, Prince is the highest utility class in the game.
@@Megidolaon999 for some reason I thought you meant down 3 tiers, ok no you actually made valid points, I also personally think royal warrior and berserker are amazing but sometimes they are limited by resistances, I prefer tycoon because it's pretty reliable, and also because it's useful for gathering resources and money. Damage wise royal berserker and warrior, utility wise tycoon, and the prince is the prince.
@ Resistance wise Berserker is the best in the entire game, strong almighty reset attacks and Physical Weakness planting, which is better than Phys-Almighty as not only does Berserker get Phys-Almighty but it can also Weakness Chain and it is the only (good) archetype which can weakness chain a physical element. Warrior, yeah struggles with resistances, counterpoint: Beloved Greatsword + Gamblers Manual. And Prince is Prince lol.
@@Megidolaon999 yeah, I just forgot that berserker has almighty damage so that's good, but I still prefer the merchant for utility and the increased effectiveness of items during battle. Good point tho, didn't think of that
Yo it's me again hehe! Didn't watch yet but just to add some fun imma try to guess some placements based on my opinions and i'm gonna check if we are on the same page ahah : S - Prince at the top + Royal Archetypes are all in the top beside Royal Knight. R-Thief and R-Berserk are almost Prince lvl, followed by Summoner/Sword/Dancer which i find all really strong, the Summoner being the best (like, this girl litteraly have all of her past Igniters as normal skills, cover all elements + debuffs, has an utilitarian manuel as her final weapon which is busted to spam her Almight AoE.. the best girl is busted). Warlord is the only non-royal archetype in this tier and should basicaly be in every team, but once you get Utilitarian Manuel its just obligatory imho in any comp as its the best support in the game no debate : 3 turns 3 lvl full stat buff + front/back line boost + vidyartha or debilitate and you have everything with only 1 inherited skill. R-Dancer could be lower in NG+ because her main purpose, the AoE Charge, can be cooked. Beside it she is not on the same lvl as others Royal imho. A - Royal Knight is the only Royal that is not in the top, because for me its R-Thief but weaker as a tank, the Miror accessories can get other archetypes to the same role, her final passive (+1 press turn next turn after Proclamation) isn't as strong as others like R-Thief one + igniters cost 3 press turns which is too much even with Utilitarian Manuel. Merchant/Tycoon in the same tier because its a really strong archetype. It can get beyond busted but only if your whole team plays it with passives that stacks, which is clearly not what i call fun to do and you just end-up spaming the same move, but its busted DPS wise to clean everything besides the final boss. Just lacks everything besides damage and has 2 weaknesses, but still could be in his own tier in the right team. I could also see the Soul Hacker here because it has the Extreme AoE Wind ignore resists and the single Wind with 2 stacks of atk debuff which are insane + the crit bonus for all team. Its really strong and inheriting those moves to your magic DPS or your support is goated. B - Not gonna waste too much time talking about everything, imma put almost everything in this that is powercrept, and there is a lot. So most of the things here are used to inherit skills so basicaly the most interesting skills the archetype can inherits, the better he is on B Tier, which also means they are good when leveling. Id put Commander/General first because Frigid Fortress + Formation of Vigor are some of the best moves in the game. Then Trickster/Faker for Roguery and Debilitate/Vidyartha as the 2nd highest. Then Gunner/Sniper high because of their Pierce ability which is the most common phys weakness on enemies and the Heavy Pierce + Def debuff wrecks the midgame, Assassin's for its Third Eye and Adamant Nightblade, Paladin & DarkKnight have really insane things like Proclamation / Flawless / Thunderstrike. The lowest here could be Samurai which i find weird and you end-up inheriting nothing from it (and more from Swordmaster lol) and probably Mage which is cool to inherit coverage early but get powercrept ultra hard by everything and end-up being a igniter spammer after mid-game while not being the best at it since it needs other Mages or Prince. Basicaly it gets trolled by the scripted nature of its rank being Gallica (and the Elemental Master and Warlock are not that better than the Wizard imho?) C - All the archetypes here are there because while they can have good skills that can be inherited (i don't think there is a single archetype line with NOTHING to inherit), the archetype itself is flawed by resistances, get trolled by the rank-up system or/and doesn't mix well with the gameplay. To start i'd put the Dragoon which is so bad just because you get it so late with "scripted" ranks-up. First, wtf is going on with this line lol ? You start as a pierce DPS that has debuffs and is insanely good early game because.. Pierce lel. Then you get the 2nd archetype which is a pierce DPS that use AoE but still has debuff and the might Heavy pierce + def debuff which i inherited on all characters until endgame on NG and NG+ lol. Sure the last archetype can only be insane !... And then you get a Magical multi-element AoE DPS that only has the 3 most common elements, with only Medium damage and random hits.. and mid-OK igniters with the best one being the one you had since Gunner lol. Oh and did i mention that when you get this guy, you already switched from the Soul Hacker which had Heavy Wind ignore Resist (which one shot most things like braindead) to play the Prince, got some Royal archetypes unlocked.. Well that is the reason it sucks : when you unlock it, you already switch from weaker things so you don't have any reason to play this. Unlocking it earlier wouldve probably change things. I'd also put the Healer line which is useless imho because you can inherit what you need (and healing HP should be done with items) and the fact that the archetype has 2 weaknesses with one to strike which is super common to take. Then you can inherits heals or dekaja which makes the Archetype "useless", and it'll will still be worst than items that you find in quantity. But the funniest thing is that Maria gives you Healer and the ability to cook without spending time, so you end up with a lot of food which means you don't need to play healer lel. + Igniters are not interesting so, yeah, lowtier. And ladies and gents, the worst line in the game : the Fighter line. I find it almost unplayable simply because you sacrifice 20% HP everytime you hit, its an insane downside to get... no upside? Sure some people like sacrificing HPs with Igniters to one-shot enemies then heal with items, and thats ok to grind dungeons early game but thats it. The more you get stronger the higher the cost of this 20% HP gets and you end up losing too much. This archetype just does some things but way too spread : some crit mecanics but not the goal of the archetype, some striking damage but weaker than Berserk which doesn't lose HP when hitting AND has debuffs etc.. (id find more logic that the Berserker was the one to lose life and not the Fighter which is a Martial artist, so he should know how to use his own body etc but anyway). So the only time i played it seriously was in NG+ when i could use the weapon that reduces by 50% HP costs and even with this.. why ? The only inherit i got was the famous Diligent Discipline which is truely good, but everything else is just not interesting. Well, now imma watch this video and have fun hehe, hope we have some agreements ! Thanks for the content again :)
OH MY GOD Wisarg. SURE I appreciate the added fun. Not to spoil too much, what I can say with your guess and analysis is " pretty close ". LOL! I guess we really love to analyze things. Pretty close brother, pretty close. I was shocked when you mentioned all the stuff in my head when in fact, you haven't watched it yet LOL! Always welcome man. Glad to always read your inputs.
@@JRPGSamurai Incredible video man, i totaly agree with your ranking its crazy ahah. We really had the exact same arguments at some points so it seems that some are not really subjective, but objective points lol. You really did a wonderful job at balancing everything, which i didn't to avoid doing an even longer comment, and it made the difference ! I sure do love analyzing things and loved the game, now im starting to love your channel! Really nice rythm and montage too, good job bro !
@@Wisarg I appreciate your support and insights brother. Yeah totally, ATLUS really needs to fix when and how are we unlocking in future games. Yeah with regards to the C tier it blew me away. We had the same takes lol. High five brother.
The knight is a mixed attacker. It took a while for me to get this because we all love hyping the counter but the reality is you don't want to give your enemy a turn to begin with. Unfortunately the knight remains THE best non-HP single target thrust damage dealer of the game. Can the gunner line do this? Sort of. With a garbage atk stat compared to knight. I see a lot of Knight's Proc spam in this video and all I think is why? THe only time I've ever felt threaten enough to waste a turn on Knight's proc is when I felt the party was in danger. Hulk's line up was always there as a knight abuse its passives, scratch with the thunder physical damage spell, heal with Medi (yes Medi is enough to keep the party healthy ) if the party did not pop a dust heal or Eupha with Summon Megami is either not present or used her turn to atk. And use her other inherents like Vigor or Shelter Formation. Hulk as THE knight is sort of useful and yet not. She's a wall to herself and exists to heal, buff, and debuff but ALSO to deal the most reliable pierce damage in the game.
Thanks for the input again Monty, I highlighted the counter since it can be a great bonus aside from Hulkenberg being my main supporting member. Because, especially at end game, enemies loves to spam AOEs and being able to repel can deplete turns. Not specifically mentioned that she need to be built for that. Yes, indeed, usually she has Vigor, Heals and Formation. Also mentioned that it can an attacker but mostly in my case, I prefer her as a support.
Royal Thief and Royal Knight carried my ass at the final boss, and I had neglected to use them for a good chunk of the late game to my shame. Destroyer Charadrius 9 turn icons don't mean shit if he attacks Heismay.
if when you get the archetype didn't count - which is the only reason Brawler should be that low because it's an absolute lifesaver in that first dungeon when you have very little else - Berserker should be easy S-tier. it's just stupid how much damage it does I wouldn't put Tycoon over Prince or some of the other Royal classes but it is just a silly archetype. what on earth were they thinking giving something already so good ALMIGHTY damage
The reason why the brawler is low is its not for everyone and as I mentioned its mechanics are risky. not saying its usable and in fact mentioned that any archetype is good due to inheritance. unless you love its design theres no urgency to use it since even at the first dungeon you can already take advantage of unli MP and first aid skill. Plus mono warrior tops even in the first dungeon. then second dungeon starts the Merchant menace. I wouldn't want to put the merchant on top but all of the reasons i mentioned are hard to disregard. In my personal take not being objective, of course I love the prince better. It makes me question why ATLUS made the merchant this way lol
Yeah, this feature is a mixed bag for me. I mentioned this in the Healer Section where, imo, this feature murdered the class. Not saying its not usable but why!
Completely valid. I am not a complete meta player 100% of the time. Especially when I was a kid, I solely based everything on looks. It's so fun, visuals drive me up to this day.
It's easy really Merchant/Tycoon most important archetype in the game the end you can basically do most of the game with a quad merchant/tycoon group I only needed royal thief for the last battle and 3 Tycoons!
I told another CC that Masked Dancer is way more valuable than he made it out to be but that is a yes and a no. The Masked Dancer's gimmick is bad because I agree. Why give Junah a mask when she can hold a much much MUCH more useful item while inherenting the abilities of the mask you were gonna equip anyways. Truthfully in a NG the masks are important because unless you do crack you're not gonna spend every waking minute grinding MAG to study all archetypes that Junah would want to have. But in NG+ forcing her to equip masks is almost pointless.Giving her a Utilitarian Manual or the item with Revitalize 3 or the mirrors to boost her chances to not take damage are far and away better options. Especially the manual since she has one of the most important Synths in the game. Masquerade Charge. If you are taking advantage of the Prince and you don't want to waste Amber Stew this is the best way to Charge the protagonist to abuse Royal Sword to do massive damage to late game bosses.Or for Strohl as part of a set up to abuse Peerless Stonecleaver to even one shot the NG+ Superboss. All its worth saying it shouldn't be that high because the Masked Dancer is only most useful as a set up class. If you don't need to do or can't do fire damage. If you don't need to inflict a weakness then there's nothing else for her to do. Junah literally works best with the Masked Dancer role as Trickster. Keeping her high magic damage but having access to Debilitate and Vidarthrya and since she's almost as fast naturally as the thief and you didn't bloat the MC's AGI she'll generally always move first. She can debuff or more cheeky start the battle by gambling with Faker's Roguery so the party starts with extra turns. But that's it. If she can't use the core functions of a Dancer. Fire attack + Inflicting weaknesses then the linage is kind of pointless
Thanks for your valuable insights Monty! Despite of the shortcomings of the Masked Dancer, I still see value on it especially if someone loves to use Summoner. I tried to use it with of course Junah, and the experience was not that great but serviceable. Can be used in niche setups such as repel tactics in the trials so yeah.
@@JRPGSamurai I think its good for sure but the way they balance important fights in the game is not have them resist or repel. The Devouer of Nations is pretty much the only one but hey...Royal Sword ruins his day if you gamble or just consume a Sublime Spoonful. Again I think a NG play through yes. Especially if you're just a big fan of Junah. There is honestly no point in any other character taking this archetype unless you love Masked Revelry or something I dunno. But because you wouldn't have studied all archetypes and have access to guaranteed turn boosting Having Junah use the Fire weakness move is bonkers for Elemental Masters spamming Meteophor. But again once your party including Junah enter NG+ and you can invest more into other archetypes spending turns to create a weakness instead of doing other stuff feels like a waste. To me its Masquerade Charge the archetype which is not a bad way for her to spend her turn. Redscale Dragon cries because she's giving Strohl cracked damage
@@cronical246 No. It can give you access to certain non passive abilities. You know whatever can do that? Just having access to the archetype. If anything you get added moves without inheritance and of course you can alter your weaknesses. Its really not that useful if you cannot abuse what its already good at. I'll say this for the middle to the START of late game its great in NG+. If you were diligent Junah can access all Elite masks to archetypes you have no business touching yet. Access to all heavy single target elemental attacks, trickster debuffs, all Warlord's buff etc. So basically from the end of Brielhaven to the time you acquire Ele Masters/Warlock its kind of nutty. Of course by them once you acquire those Junah should at least have Elemental Master or be on the cusp of obtaining it if you leveled up Wizard in NG. So then she should just BE that archetype so she can abuse her incredible magic stat while...keeping her accessory slot open
Masked Dancer and Faker are at least A or S tier, as they are almost a necessity for end-game “superbosses”. Mage is F tier for me. Extremely weak damage, no multi-target skills, very little variety, and Summoner literally does everything better.
Problem with this game is the Inheritance system and Bond System. So many lineage are useless because they only have 1 or 2 inheritance slots until end game because story locked bonds. So the entire lineage is just useless or inefficient when you can just unlock Samurai or something almost instantly, final base archetype AND has 4 slots. Then you have mage lineage. Lol. Just Lol. It's literally useless and locked until end game. Like the only classes that you actually can max early and get 4 slots are: Warrior (samurai) Knight (Paladin) Healer (Saviour) Faker (Trickster) Everything else is just late game and locked.
I totally agree about the timing of unlocks. ATLUS needs to really pay attention to this. Especially in the past where party members is getting really late. Sigh, I wish every archetype can have a nice roadmap next time. Especially when you have this kind of skill system.
Just as a little criticism. Can you maybe not put the Prince archetypes in the thumbnail? Right now I've beaten the Charadrius fights and I've been spoiled on this 'prince' archetypes. In the first minute of the video was many great spoilers soo can you maybe next time put a spoiler warning in the begginning of the video and at least black out late game archetypes like the Peince.
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4 Berserkers
4 Ulitarian Manuals.
WANTON DESTRUCTION
WANTON DESTRUCTION
WANTON DESTRUCTION
WANTON DESTRUCTION
WANTON DESTRUCTION
WANTON DESTRUCTION
AHAH! I once thought of this build. Pretty disgusting. Just imagine the Destroyer mayhem.
Heismay the second he gets the Dodger Ring/ his Royal Archetype Mastered: You don't get a turn 🦇✨
Truly broken. His one of my fav chars too. Objectively aside haha, lovely character.
The weirdest thing with dragoon is that it goes from a ranged physical build to just being another magic build. It's arguably a worse summoner because different versions of the summoner have both physical skills and various magic skills that hit all enemies
I don't know what ATLUS is thinking to be honest. I was into the Sniper, even use it for a long time. The Dragoon was so cool but so anti climatic!
The Wizard's Shield Blessing passive is a neat regen if you pair it with auto-casting equipment that triggers it.
Nice tip admon!
@@JRPGSamurai found it by accident since I'm not optimising my save the most, I was having issues with sustaining MP for Hulkenberg and was deciding whether to prepare her to upgrade into expert Knight lineage later on and saw she needs Wizard lvl10, then I read that passive which I had ignored as it seemed a hassle early on when you can first get Wizard. It's not very busted but it's nice and you can turn Hulkenberg into a really tough tank early on without needing particularly busted equipment.
Thanks again for sharing. I am sure people will be able to read this.
@@JRPGSamuraino problem, I think you should consider doing an archetype optimisation guide, which can possibly be a lot of videos. I watched a lot of your guides, like the Merchant guide was instrumental for me to even pick it up, but I ended up only leveling the MC on it for now. That is because even knowing how the setup should look like at the end it still takes planning for each character, the easiest resource to mismanage in this game is Magla because in optimal situations you don't want to waste extra days going back to some dungeon when there are more important things to do. Maybe consider a video/series of videos of how to prepare your party since the start if you're aiming for certain endgame setups. I know that there are farming points where you can farm infinite exp and money, but I'm already at 60 hours at the start of the Virgo Island quest and I feel like there's value in providing streamlined guidance towards specific goals because grinding does get tedious in some spots.
@@admontblanc Reading this and surely will consider this in my plans. I appreciate these kinds of comments. Hats off to you.
While certainly not as broken as some stuff described here, I had an easy time farming once I had the Soul Hacker. Just get the mana regen skill from sorcerer, inherit that and equip any auto stat boost item to you and a synth partner, so you both regen 10 mana each turn. Soul hacker also gets the passive from elemental master (I think?) that halves synth cost. Grats, your Trial of the Seeker is forever free and generating mana, while also being able to near one-shot (or even fully one shot) entire enemy groups in one attack.
Even if some components of this are missing there are probably many ways to make this work and even to improve this.
Yeah definitely good setup. Mentioned it as well that it could provide value in terms of MP mitigation. Thanks for sharing Amryu!
I’d say the Gunner Archetypes strongest benefit is in the long ranged combat for the purpose of destroying the Roots.
Hi Jared what roots are we talking here? Refresh me XD
@ Roots in the Overworld that sprout infinite enemies. Once you destroy the Roots, you get an Archetype EXP item. Especially in the final dungeon, this is valuable because the roots tend to explode and deal damage if you get too close.
@ Ahhhh you are referring to Melancholia Crystals yeah forgot to mention that the gunner adds value in Farming.
@ yeah, I forgot that’s what they are called.
Since i played a magic MC during my first playtrough i found Dragoon to be extremely powerful, more powerful then the mage's at the very least. Similar to mages they have crossbows which focus on different elements so planning accordingly you can just shred trough anything. Just remember to equip the highest damage weapon for boss fights and go to town with Draco Ray. Since i was a Magical MC i didn't really like the prince archetype, It's really powerful, but playing it as a Magic MC mean you turn yourself into a support... which ain't wrong but it didn't suit my needs when i finally acquired it. In a sense I'm happy i went mage since both of the physical team members are way better at being physical then the MC ever will be.
Anyhow I'm just saying that dragoon is way more powerful then people claim it is, it's synergy moves are just devastating in the hands of a character with high magic stat. Sure it can be played as a physical using the mania bullet and barrage synergy skills and probably do more dmg to single targets as a result, considering it is easier to boost up pierce/physical then magic damage. Being weak to slash also hurts the archetype a fair bit.
Can you make a video about the best inherited skills and builds for each royal archetype?
Yeah these are planned, best powerful builds indeed.
Learned about tycoons power on ng+ and was just burning through
Let's go! Capitalism is real XD
Estoy hablando español por si no traduce XD.
En mí opinión, también como dice el vídeo, mercader es la clase más fuerte de todo ya no es necesario usar uno de los recursos más escasos (mana) y rompe la economía de juego, también he de decir que cuantas más veces pases el juego más fácil es hacer una build ya que más amuletos de X2 al daño crítico tienes, como dato diría que Heasmay me parece mejor Masked dancer que Junah, ya que la única utilidad que encuentro es que sea lo más rapida posible, haciendo que le puedo poner Third eye y a veces esquive algún golpe. Tendré que probar a usar 4 magnate para esta partida
Thanks for sharing your thought and I hope the translation was correct. But yeah, the Tycoon setup will not disappoint you.
Warrior up one, merchant down three and it’s perfect.
Edit: Above applies to endgame, as pointed out by the creator, Warrior is not great mid game, and Berserker is not available early game, while Merchant is by far the best archetype Early - Mid game. Yes, it might only barely be a top 5 archetype endgame, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t the best overall.
Never used merchant properly?
@ No, I just actually test endgame mechanics myself instead of believing everyone online. Still the 4/5 th best archetype, so it’s amazing. But Royal Warrior is highest single target damage in the game potentially, Royal Berserker can have infinite turn icons / Wanton Destruction chain out dpsing Gold Rush, Prince is the highest utility class in the game.
@@Megidolaon999 for some reason I thought you meant down 3 tiers, ok no you actually made valid points, I also personally think royal warrior and berserker are amazing but sometimes they are limited by resistances, I prefer tycoon because it's pretty reliable, and also because it's useful for gathering resources and money. Damage wise royal berserker and warrior, utility wise tycoon, and the prince is the prince.
@ Resistance wise Berserker is the best in the entire game, strong almighty reset attacks and Physical Weakness planting, which is better than Phys-Almighty as not only does Berserker get Phys-Almighty but it can also Weakness Chain and it is the only (good) archetype which can weakness chain a physical element. Warrior, yeah struggles with resistances, counterpoint: Beloved Greatsword + Gamblers Manual. And Prince is Prince lol.
@@Megidolaon999 yeah, I just forgot that berserker has almighty damage so that's good, but I still prefer the merchant for utility and the increased effectiveness of items during battle. Good point tho, didn't think of that
Agree on healer. I kept the mid all heal entirety of the game on different characters
Yeah, skill inheritance murdered the Healer Archetype.
basilio oiled up nike pros
Haha LOL! Pretty accurate.
Prince, All the way in!!! No joke.👍👍👍😉
Prince it def broken. The best looking, along with Samurai XD
Yo it's me again hehe!
Didn't watch yet but just to add some fun imma try to guess some placements based on my opinions and i'm gonna check if we are on the same page ahah :
S - Prince at the top + Royal Archetypes are all in the top beside Royal Knight. R-Thief and R-Berserk are almost Prince lvl, followed by Summoner/Sword/Dancer which i find all really strong, the Summoner being the best (like, this girl litteraly have all of her past Igniters as normal skills, cover all elements + debuffs, has an utilitarian manuel as her final weapon which is busted to spam her Almight AoE.. the best girl is busted).
Warlord is the only non-royal archetype in this tier and should basicaly be in every team, but once you get Utilitarian Manuel its just obligatory imho in any comp as its the best support in the game no debate : 3 turns 3 lvl full stat buff + front/back line boost + vidyartha or debilitate and you have everything with only 1 inherited skill. R-Dancer could be lower in NG+ because her main purpose, the AoE Charge, can be cooked. Beside it she is not on the same lvl as others Royal imho.
A - Royal Knight is the only Royal that is not in the top, because for me its R-Thief but weaker as a tank, the Miror accessories can get other archetypes to the same role, her final passive (+1 press turn next turn after Proclamation) isn't as strong as others like R-Thief one + igniters cost 3 press turns which is too much even with Utilitarian Manuel. Merchant/Tycoon in the same tier because its a really strong archetype. It can get beyond busted but only if your whole team plays it with passives that stacks, which is clearly not what i call fun to do and you just end-up spaming the same move, but its busted DPS wise to clean everything besides the final boss. Just lacks everything besides damage and has 2 weaknesses, but still could be in his own tier in the right team.
I could also see the Soul Hacker here because it has the Extreme AoE Wind ignore resists and the single Wind with 2 stacks of atk debuff which are insane + the crit bonus for all team. Its really strong and inheriting those moves to your magic DPS or your support is goated.
B - Not gonna waste too much time talking about everything, imma put almost everything in this that is powercrept, and there is a lot. So most of the things here are used to inherit skills so basicaly the most interesting skills the archetype can inherits, the better he is on B Tier, which also means they are good when leveling. Id put Commander/General first because Frigid Fortress + Formation of Vigor are some of the best moves in the game. Then Trickster/Faker for Roguery and Debilitate/Vidyartha as the 2nd highest. Then Gunner/Sniper high because of their Pierce ability which is the most common phys weakness on enemies and the Heavy Pierce + Def debuff wrecks the midgame, Assassin's for its Third Eye and Adamant Nightblade, Paladin & DarkKnight have really insane things like Proclamation / Flawless / Thunderstrike. The lowest here could be Samurai which i find weird and you end-up inheriting nothing from it (and more from Swordmaster lol) and probably Mage which is cool to inherit coverage early but get powercrept ultra hard by everything and end-up being a igniter spammer after mid-game while not being the best at it since it needs other Mages or Prince. Basicaly it gets trolled by the scripted nature of its rank being Gallica (and the Elemental Master and Warlock are not that better than the Wizard imho?)
C - All the archetypes here are there because while they can have good skills that can be inherited (i don't think there is a single archetype line with NOTHING to inherit), the archetype itself is flawed by resistances, get trolled by the rank-up system or/and doesn't mix well with the gameplay.
To start i'd put the Dragoon which is so bad just because you get it so late with "scripted" ranks-up. First, wtf is going on with this line lol ? You start as a pierce DPS that has debuffs and is insanely good early game because.. Pierce lel. Then you get the 2nd archetype which is a pierce DPS that use AoE but still has debuff and the might Heavy pierce + def debuff which i inherited on all characters until endgame on NG and NG+ lol. Sure the last archetype can only be insane !... And then you get a Magical multi-element AoE DPS that only has the 3 most common elements, with only Medium damage and random hits.. and mid-OK igniters with the best one being the one you had since Gunner lol. Oh and did i mention that when you get this guy, you already switched from the Soul Hacker which had Heavy Wind ignore Resist (which one shot most things like braindead) to play the Prince, got some Royal archetypes unlocked.. Well that is the reason it sucks : when you unlock it, you already switch from weaker things so you don't have any reason to play this. Unlocking it earlier wouldve probably change things.
I'd also put the Healer line which is useless imho because you can inherit what you need (and healing HP should be done with items) and the fact that the archetype has 2 weaknesses with one to strike which is super common to take. Then you can inherits heals or dekaja which makes the Archetype "useless", and it'll will still be worst than items that you find in quantity. But the funniest thing is that Maria gives you Healer and the ability to cook without spending time, so you end up with a lot of food which means you don't need to play healer lel. + Igniters are not interesting so, yeah, lowtier.
And ladies and gents, the worst line in the game : the Fighter line. I find it almost unplayable simply because you sacrifice 20% HP everytime you hit, its an insane downside to get... no upside? Sure some people like sacrificing HPs with Igniters to one-shot enemies then heal with items, and thats ok to grind dungeons early game but thats it. The more you get stronger the higher the cost of this 20% HP gets and you end up losing too much. This archetype just does some things but way too spread : some crit mecanics but not the goal of the archetype, some striking damage but weaker than Berserk which doesn't lose HP when hitting AND has debuffs etc.. (id find more logic that the Berserker was the one to lose life and not the Fighter which is a Martial artist, so he should know how to use his own body etc but anyway). So the only time i played it seriously was in NG+ when i could use the weapon that reduces by 50% HP costs and even with this.. why ? The only inherit i got was the famous Diligent Discipline which is truely good, but everything else is just not interesting.
Well, now imma watch this video and have fun hehe, hope we have some agreements ! Thanks for the content again :)
OH MY GOD Wisarg. SURE I appreciate the added fun. Not to spoil too much, what I can say with your guess and analysis is " pretty close ". LOL! I guess we really love to analyze things. Pretty close brother, pretty close. I was shocked when you mentioned all the stuff in my head when in fact, you haven't watched it yet LOL! Always welcome man. Glad to always read your inputs.
Well seems like i agree with everything in C tier which is already insane ahah ! Love it
@@JRPGSamurai Incredible video man, i totaly agree with your ranking its crazy ahah. We really had the exact same arguments at some points so it seems that some are not really subjective, but objective points lol. You really did a wonderful job at balancing everything, which i didn't to avoid doing an even longer comment, and it made the difference ! I sure do love analyzing things and loved the game, now im starting to love your channel! Really nice rythm and montage too, good job bro !
@@Wisarg I appreciate your support and insights brother. Yeah totally, ATLUS really needs to fix when and how are we unlocking in future games. Yeah with regards to the C tier it blew me away. We had the same takes lol. High five brother.
The knight is a mixed attacker. It took a while for me to get this because we all love hyping the counter but the reality is you don't want to give your enemy a turn to begin with.
Unfortunately the knight remains THE best non-HP single target thrust damage dealer of the game. Can the gunner line do this? Sort of. With a garbage atk stat compared to knight.
I see a lot of Knight's Proc spam in this video and all I think is why? THe only time I've ever felt threaten enough to waste a turn on Knight's proc is when I felt the party was in danger. Hulk's line up was always there as a knight abuse its passives, scratch with the thunder physical damage spell, heal with Medi (yes Medi is enough to keep the party healthy ) if the party did not pop a dust heal or Eupha with Summon Megami is either not present or used her turn to atk.
And use her other inherents like Vigor or Shelter Formation. Hulk as THE knight is sort of useful and yet not. She's a wall to herself and exists to heal, buff, and debuff but ALSO to deal the most reliable pierce damage in the game.
Thanks for the input again Monty, I highlighted the counter since it can be a great bonus aside from Hulkenberg being my main supporting member. Because, especially at end game, enemies loves to spam AOEs and being able to repel can deplete turns. Not specifically mentioned that she need to be built for that. Yes, indeed, usually she has Vigor, Heals and Formation. Also mentioned that it can an attacker but mostly in my case, I prefer her as a support.
@@JRPGSamurai For sure. When you're set up and with a healthy party she's gotta do something. So Thunderthurst Strike or Mad Rush
I love Hulky personally and that's why she never left the party. But objectively, pretty much she can do a lot of stuff too even in damage.
You should do a vid for most fun /best mid game viable builds that can transition to the end game builds i.e. tycoon and other s tier
Hi Viet. Already did for the Warrior Path and Sniper, general build perhaps then also the Merchant and Tycoon full party builds.
Royal Thief and Royal Knight carried my ass at the final boss, and I had neglected to use them for a good chunk of the late game to my shame. Destroyer Charadrius 9 turn icons don't mean shit if he attacks Heismay.
Behold! Heismay the great eraser of turns and waifu Hulky.
if when you get the archetype didn't count - which is the only reason Brawler should be that low because it's an absolute lifesaver in that first dungeon when you have very little else - Berserker should be easy S-tier. it's just stupid how much damage it does
I wouldn't put Tycoon over Prince or some of the other Royal classes but it is just a silly archetype. what on earth were they thinking giving something already so good ALMIGHTY damage
The reason why the brawler is low is its not for everyone and as I mentioned its mechanics are risky. not saying its usable and in fact mentioned that any archetype is good due to inheritance. unless you love its design theres no urgency to use it since even at the first dungeon you can already take advantage of unli MP and first aid skill. Plus mono warrior tops even in the first dungeon. then second dungeon starts the Merchant menace. I wouldn't want to put the merchant on top but all of the reasons i mentioned are hard to disregard. In my personal take not being objective, of course I love the prince better. It makes me question why ATLUS made the merchant this way lol
Could you do a video about best ways to farm magla items?
Hello T4ke. Hmm in my opinion the farming spots that I released are more than enough to have a lot of magla. But sure, will check this once I planned.
with synthesis skills being the most important part of a class, some archetypes never had a chance 😢
Yeah, this feature is a mixed bag for me. I mentioned this in the Healer Section where, imo, this feature murdered the class. Not saying its not usable but why!
this wont change what i use but ill watch just to see what is even in the game, i use what i like the most in terms of looks
Completely valid. I am not a complete meta player 100% of the time. Especially when I was a kid, I solely based everything on looks. It's so fun, visuals drive me up to this day.
The Samurai strikes again
Let's go brother!
It's easy really Merchant/Tycoon most important archetype in the game the end you can basically do most of the game with a quad merchant/tycoon group I only needed royal thief for the last battle and 3 Tycoons!
Really broken yeah. ATLUS loves reeves.
Great video again Mr. Samurai
Thank you Asche as always! I paid a lot of attention regarding this video.
Gunner should be way higher but besides this i agree good tierlist
Thanks lex!
I told another CC that Masked Dancer is way more valuable than he made it out to be but that is a yes and a no.
The Masked Dancer's gimmick is bad because I agree. Why give Junah a mask when she can hold a much much MUCH more useful item while inherenting the abilities of the mask you were gonna equip anyways.
Truthfully in a NG the masks are important because unless you do crack you're not gonna spend every waking minute grinding MAG to study all archetypes that Junah would want to have. But in NG+ forcing her to equip masks is almost pointless.Giving her a Utilitarian Manual or the item with Revitalize 3 or the mirrors to boost her chances to not take damage are far and away better options.
Especially the manual since she has one of the most important Synths in the game. Masquerade Charge. If you are taking advantage of the Prince and you don't want to waste Amber Stew this is the best way to Charge the protagonist to abuse Royal Sword to do massive damage to late game bosses.Or for Strohl as part of a set up to abuse Peerless Stonecleaver to even one shot the NG+ Superboss.
All its worth saying it shouldn't be that high because the Masked Dancer is only most useful as a set up class. If you don't need to do or can't do fire damage. If you don't need to inflict a weakness then there's nothing else for her to do. Junah literally works best with the Masked Dancer role as Trickster. Keeping her high magic damage but having access to Debilitate and Vidarthrya and since she's almost as fast naturally as the thief and you didn't bloat the MC's AGI she'll generally always move first. She can debuff or more cheeky start the battle by gambling with Faker's Roguery so the party starts with extra turns.
But that's it. If she can't use the core functions of a Dancer. Fire attack + Inflicting weaknesses then the linage is kind of pointless
Thanks for your valuable insights Monty! Despite of the shortcomings of the Masked Dancer, I still see value on it especially if someone loves to use Summoner. I tried to use it with of course Junah, and the experience was not that great but serviceable. Can be used in niche setups such as repel tactics in the trials so yeah.
@@JRPGSamurai I think its good for sure but the way they balance important fights in the game is not have them resist or repel. The Devouer of Nations is pretty much the only one but hey...Royal Sword ruins his day if you gamble or just consume a Sublime Spoonful.
Again I think a NG play through yes. Especially if you're just a big fan of Junah. There is honestly no point in any other character taking this archetype unless you love Masked Revelry or something I dunno.
But because you wouldn't have studied all archetypes and have access to guaranteed turn boosting Having Junah use the Fire weakness move is bonkers for Elemental Masters spamming Meteophor.
But again once your party including Junah enter NG+ and you can invest more into other archetypes spending turns to create a weakness instead of doing other stuff feels like a waste. To me its Masquerade Charge the archetype which is not a bad way for her to spend her turn. Redscale Dragon cries because she's giving Strohl cracked damage
Lovely thoughts indeed.
Masked Dancer: It can be anything you want it to be. . . Except a physical attacker
@@cronical246 No. It can give you access to certain non passive abilities.
You know whatever can do that? Just having access to the archetype. If anything you get added moves without inheritance and of course you can alter your weaknesses.
Its really not that useful if you cannot abuse what its already good at. I'll say this for the middle to the START of late game its great in NG+. If you were diligent Junah can access all Elite masks to archetypes you have no business touching yet. Access to all heavy single target elemental attacks, trickster debuffs, all Warlord's buff etc.
So basically from the end of Brielhaven to the time you acquire Ele Masters/Warlock its kind of nutty. Of course by them once you acquire those Junah should at least have Elemental Master or be on the cusp of obtaining it if you leveled up Wizard in NG. So then she should just BE that archetype so she can abuse her incredible magic stat while...keeping her accessory slot open
Masked Dancer and Faker are at least A or S tier, as they are almost a necessity for end-game “superbosses”.
Mage is F tier for me. Extremely weak damage, no multi-target skills, very little variety, and Summoner literally does everything better.
Cool insight Geena. Thanks for sharing.
@@JRPGSamurai Great channel btw. Subscribing for the Metaphor content!
@@geenalawrence8338 Welcome to the Empire and glad the content helps!
Problem with this game is the Inheritance system and Bond System.
So many lineage are useless because they only have 1 or 2 inheritance slots until end game because story locked bonds. So the entire lineage is just useless or inefficient when you can just unlock Samurai or something almost instantly, final base archetype AND has 4 slots.
Then you have mage lineage. Lol. Just Lol. It's literally useless and locked until end game.
Like the only classes that you actually can max early and get 4 slots are:
Warrior (samurai)
Knight (Paladin)
Healer (Saviour)
Faker (Trickster)
Everything else is just late game and locked.
I totally agree about the timing of unlocks. ATLUS needs to really pay attention to this. Especially in the past where party members is getting really late. Sigh, I wish every archetype can have a nice roadmap next time. Especially when you have this kind of skill system.
Just as a little criticism. Can you maybe not put the Prince archetypes in the thumbnail? Right now I've beaten the Charadrius fights and I've been spoiled on this 'prince' archetypes. In the first minute of the video was many great spoilers soo can you maybe next time put a spoiler warning in the begginning of the video and at least black out late game archetypes like the Peince.
@@fraldarius7131 Hello fraldarius and sure will note this for improvements.