Boeing 727, Boeing Then vs. Boeing Now
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- The Boeing 727 was designed and built with a philosophy that I don't think exists with Boeing management any more, or at least it doesn't exist with the people calling the shots over there.
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Corrections:
Boeing stopped using customer codes in 2016.
That "767" is a 777, it doesn't effect the video though as the flaps are very similar between the two planes.
As I young lad in the late seventies (maybe 10 to 12 years of age), I was on a family vacation in Spain. We traveled from Madrid to Malaga on an Iberia Airlines 727 as part of the trip. A close family friend on the trip was a Captain for a U.S. carrier and got us a tour of the flight deck after our departure. As a young kid, I was quiet and just listened to the discusion between the professionals, but somehow I ended up in the jump seat all buckled up. Eventually the family friend returned to his seat in the cabin and left me in the jump seat as we began our descent. I remained quiet but ecstatic as the plane was landed at Malaga. I will never forget the view out of the cockpit window as we made our approach to the runway. It is a cherished memory from my childhood.
Someone attempted to mug me in Malaga. Other than that, cool place.
my guess, they could read the excitement in your face, ha.
In the early 80's i got to sit in the co pilots seat, but in a 747! We were on the way back to London, it too has stuck with me as an amazing experience, I'll never forget and that would never be possible today ☹️
What an incredibly interesting video, those triple slotted fowler flaps are so gorgeous, your quip about the Trident was hilariously brutal.
That's funny. You may have noticed that was recorded in a different room than most of the video. That's because you're hearing the toned down version.
Greg, I've been fascinated by your videos for years now. I love aviation and have finally decided to make it my career. I am currently in process of getting my PPL. My written exam is tomorrow. These videos about commercial aircraft are informative and fascinating and I hope we see more in the future.
Good luck on your PPL tomorrow.
Thank you.
Best of luck!
Good luck tomorrow.
Good luck!
Hi Gregg. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I operated, flew on as FE, and maintained a 100 series ex brannif plane for over 13 years, all over the world. Such a gracious old lady who never let us down. We did all our own C checks, engine changes etc in house, and the plane was one of the cheapest corporate jets we owned, even accounting for all the aging programs, corrosion programs etc. I love this plane. I spent many happy hours in the cockpit, and enjoyed every trip. Cheers
John.
My father was the flight test engineer who flew on the prototype 727 for its certification. He left me with photos of that beautiful yellow bird flying out of Boeing Field in Seattle. One such photo was of that plane just after takeoff ascending at maximum climb angle taken from a chase aircraft. Spectacular performance! The 727 would have remained in service a bit longer if it could have been flown with a flight crew of just two.
I am 57 and was fortunate, as a child, to be raised in an affluent family. We traveled, by air often to visit relatives. Moline to Nashville, via either Chicago or St. Louis. Boeing 727's, 737's and an occasional Douglas. All jet propelled.
For the 727, watching that wing literally come apart on approach and then together again upon climb out. Magnificent!
My last 727 flight was Northwest, Reno to Make Minneapolis. Seats and carpet had been removed from the rear of the cabin. It was this plains last passenger flight. Landing, no firetrucks, no fanfair. Just the Captain's announcement of the last flight and a long look back from him after exiting the jetway.
Thanks for this video...
BfD
I spent several years working on 727's as a flight attendant for a major airline in 1990s. It was an excellent plane; built like a tank, and very reliable. It had large galleys and closets; and passengers liked it too.
I have been retired for 15 years now but I flew jets for a living for 38 years. Thirteen of those years were in the 727, with the years spread among all three cockpit seats. It is my favorite airplane and a heck of a machine. It had delightful fllying qualities, was superbly designed and beautifully crafted. And it could take a licking and keep on ticking - it always got you back onto the ground with a reuseable aircraft. Thanks for the memories!!
I've worked on that plane in the title !!! I worked for NWA for 20 years, learning the finer points of a sheetmetal mechanic on the 727. There isn't a place in or on that plane i haven't worked. I loved them !
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing :)
@@billotto602 I worked in Fuel Metering at MSP until they locked us out during a BRAC strike. Wound up in the chemical industry for 16 years then back into aviation at Mesaba.
I'm cabin crew, spent many many hours on the 727. Used to joke that sitting in the tail jumpseat when the engines revved slightly out of sync to each other it was like getting an MRI. Flew as a passenger on a British Trident once, but that's just because I'm really quite elderly
In 1980 after high school I worked at Astech Engineering in California. I did the rough fabrication of the thrust reverser clam shells for 727s. Lots of them. And similar work fabricating the engine nacelles and tail cones for the early 757 and 767. Fun times.
The 727 has a special place in my heart. I lived near the airport at Long Beach, CA. I was an aviation fanatic from a young age and part of that came from both of my elementary schools being nearly under the approach path of the airport. Nothing made my day more than when a PSA or Western Airlines 727 came roaring over the playground during recess, trailing those good old fashioned JT8D smoke trails.
Hello Greg,
I enjoyed your video on the 727. Great information.
I flew for Mexicana Airlines starting in 1975 as a Flight Engineer on the 727-100.
Six months later I was upgraded to First Officer and then after only five years I was Captain.
I flew the 727 a total of 17 years and and about 6,000 hours until 1992.
Then I started flying the Boeing 757 and 767 and finally the Airbus 320.
I retired in 2007 at 60 years age.
The airplane I enjoyed the most flying was the Boeing 727.
In Mexicana Airlines since the 1980’s we had 727-200 equipped with JATOS to comply with the second segment after take off in case of an engine failure in high altitude airports (Mexico City).
Six rockets, three on each side under fuselage behind the wing.
When the JATOS expired (when not used), we would fire them in training flights (not simulator) simulating engine failures.
Thanks for your videos.
Yours
Cap. Mariano Travesi
Greg, this is one of the most fascinating videos you have published (and I've watched almost all of them).
You've highlighted and analyzed highly important points that are more relevant now than ever before.
It's an interesting direction for your channel, please continue.
Former 727 driver here… Your flight engineer was having an off day if the APU fire light illuminated inflight - it, normally, meant that he forgot to shut the APU down before takeoff. Yes… She was fast. We had the last birds off the assembly line. They had the Valsan conversion to JT-8D-217 engines - LOTS of thrust. We “barber poled” everywhere back then. We would often get into Mach buffet “unintentionally”😆👨✈️.
I have heard that if you retrofit with mpodern style winglets you gt the same roll coeficient as the F-14
@@gkiltz0 Now THAT’S one I’ve never heard!
My favorite airplane
Flyer, not driver. Driving is for business. Traveling is for personal. Constitutionally.
Sounds like a vibe
Thanks for this video. My grandfather flew 727's for PanAm in the late 60's/early 70's. From flying the Stratocruiser, DC-6's and DC-7's, the 727 was his favorite
My uncle Stan (WW-ll P-51 pilot) started flying TWA DC-3’s after the war and continued with TWA all the way to his retirement (enforced then at age 60). His only breaks from flying came with the occasional “layoffs”.
He talked of the major “washing out” of their pilots when the prop-to-jets conversion came. He survived that change… leaving the “Super-Connie” behind and flying mostly 727’s up to his 60th birthday.
His favorite remained “the Connie” that he referred to as, “the most forgiving”.
He’s gone now, up
“to touch the face of God”.
Ron Smith
P.S. My dad was a flight instructor during WWII; and I have private pilot ticket… owned a 172 for a couple years… but medically disqualified for a long time now… sure do miss it !
Great video Greg. My dad flew for Western/Delta and as a non-rev I swear i flew on every 727 in big W's fleet. I always remember the takeoff acceleration was always just a little bit extra. Another 10/10 on a classic. Thanks Greg!!
I began my career at TWA as a structural mechanic at the Kansas City maintenance base in 1989. The 727s were already long in the tooth, and we were doing extensive work to satisfy the FAA "aging aircraft" directives. We changed the lower fuselage skins forward of the wing, and opened up the lap seams down the sides of the fuselage to inspect and clean out corrosion. It was a BIG job. They had one crew do a remove, inspect, and replace the four "milk bottle" bolts that were the main wing-fuselage attachments. Very expensive, difficult, and time-consuming. They only did one airplane, and decided they weren't worth keeping them anymore. When the noise regulations came out requiring hush kits, TWA decided to retire their fleet of 727s in favor of newer MD-80s.
Great video, as always, Greg. I like the occasional video that isn't just the same format or subject. Variety is the spice of life. Thanks
That 727 is still mounted indoors on the second floor the museum of science and industry in Chicago. You can walk around and occasionally sit in the pikot's seat. They used to have pilots there discussing the aircraft with visitors on the weekends. It's a really cool exhibit.
An absolute legit skewer of the McDonnell Boeing of today in the last five minutes... THANK YOU.
I remember as a young boy flying alone to visit dad I loved Continental 727s and watching the wing flaps moving about. That takeoff performance was exciting too.
In 1976 I rode on a Caravelle from Titograd to Belgrade in former Yugoslavia on JAT airlines. I was only six but I distinctly remember the triangular windows. I’ve also ridden on the 727 many times. Very nice and very fast plane. Great videos btw. Thanks!
My first commercial flight was on a 727 KC to Denver in 1976. What a cool aircraft. It's still my favorite with the 757 being close behind.
The years and thousends of hours on the 727 were the best years in my 45 years flying carreer. 3 in the cockpit outweighs any super duper auto system. My mind always come back to the 727 when I compare to more modern aircrafts I flew before my retirement, it was the best.
During my misspent youth I was a skydiver. On Aug 12,1992 I skydived out the air stair of a cargo B727, N94GS, earning DB Cooper #149, at Quincy Regional Airport, Quincy, Illinois. Definitely one of my more memorable skydives.
Wow your video brings back distant memories. I was a flight attendant with TWA and Eastern airlines and worked the 727’s very often. I remember the DB Cooper switch being called the gust lock when I was at TWA. Great video thanks.
Greg, you are spot on about Boeing not caring like they used to. I know for a fact the MD merger was its massive trip up, especially allowing them run all management. Its a shame but now a lot of my buddies who are being put on newer birds (especially the newest 777) referred to them as DC-10s with a 777 label. Very sad indeed
I mIss flying in a 727, and I was especially astounded in the afternoon staircase, which I used to board one at DFW, if memory serves me. I learned a lot from this, Greg. Thanks!
Your video is the best on the 727 subject. I love you mentioning about the importance of wing design. Most people only see the fuselage as being a plane. But it is the wings that fly, the wings are the aircraft. The fuselage is a negative factor causing drag and adding weight,. We added that tube only for cargo and passengers, and a neat way to connect the tail plane🙂
The wing is indeed the advantage of the Airbus today…. How things have changed.
"I'm disappointed in the Boeing of today" I couldn't agree more. I have nearly 20 years of 727 heavy maintenance experience and there never was a more well built transport aircraft. All of the systems were redundant if not triple redundant. I can't think of a plane I'd rather be in if the chips were down. Boeings design philosophy seemed to change around the 767/757 and has only been downhill. They make planes that are "good enough" but nowhere near the planes from the 747-100/200 on back. I'm sure it was there answer to "economics" driven by competitors and deregulation but as you state in the video they faced economics even back then. 727 was a battle tank and you had to work on it but you could keep it flying forever. We turned out 727's in the late 90's that were like new, probably why Kalletta and others picked them up. It was a very forgiving aircraft. I still maintain aircraft today and my airline phased out the 727-223 in 2002. I still miss it. Thanks for a great vid.
Oh ain’t that the truth: no better airplane if the chips were down.
It was a tank.
I flew a Caravelle from Cleveland, Ohio to Pittsburgh, PA. Beautiful airplane, nice comfortable interior. The difference between the Boeing (and most other companies surviving the decades) of the 727 days and today was that top management was focused on product(s) and not obsessed with stock manipulation. There is little interest in actual manufacturing since it can be outsourced to the lowest bidder; the "art of management" is bolstering stock, stock buy back, and tax implications. Thanks for your report.
SX-CBF shown at 22:23 on the video is the first -200 to be produced, came with the testing instrumentation cables in the fuselage and wings and was 1000lbs heavier than the other 200s we had. We bought it "used" from flight testing so cheaper. It flew fine. Shown here being pushed back at Dusseldorf airport i think. The name is from the gorgeous mountain next to Sparta, Greece. This early 27 was a royal pain to take off fully loaded even for a 2 hour trip from standard 2400m runways on a warm day with its -9 engines.. Flaps 25 V2 140 and pray the fish dont get you at the end of the runway sea level. Other than that it was a spectacular airplane. SX-CBF was broken up late 90s since Boeing did not want to trade it for half the price of a 737 classic. So much for history.
I was a mechanic on a 727 for many years and then became a Flight Engineer. The 2 biggest problems with the original 727's were the APU door. The APU had and exhaust door that opened up on the right wing when operating. Many problems with the door and switch. Later they removed the door and installed louvers. Another problem with the original 727's were the thrust reversers. They finally modified that problem.
I hung out at Half Moon Bay Airport a lot during my misspent youth. Once in a while KSFO woud fog over, but KHAF would be open. I'd ride down to KHAF on a Saturday morninon my '50 Panhead (which I still have today), expecting a normal day of operations, and the whole field would be full of PSA Electras and 727s. Great times. Later I flew on a PSA (Poor Sailor's Airline) to boot camp in Sandy Eggo. Saw the Convair Sea Dart sitting in the water at a nearby dock (ISYN) as we took off, back to home. Fast Forward. Rode an Alaska Airlines 727 to Juneau in 1989. Special mission for Alaska DEQ. Got a ride to Stika. Juneau was snowed in on the way back. Two missed approaches. The pilot told us that he could see the runway on the missed, and would attempt a downwind landing. He f**king nailed it. Awright. Yeah, the 727 was a pretty great airplane, IMHO.
Do you know Ken McCrary from Swanton?
Thank you. You don't sound the typical former pilot. This TH-cam makes me want to check out info on the 727 at my public library. This was my favorite plane to fly in as a passenger. I loved walking through its rear door.
I'm not a former pilot, I'm a current pilot.
Greg, oops!
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesim a pilot too and I love these "classic" photos of old airliners. Idk what it is, the quality, the colors, or the older liveries, but I love looking at photos from the 50s-70s of airliners. Or even older ones like dc3 dc4 etc. Like I wish they were around and I could fly them. Absolute beauties and nostalgic
In the 727 you don't put down the flaps, you disassemble the wing.
@@brucefelger4015 Right ! Not much left with everything front & rear down !
When PSA was around, with many 727s, catching a plane on the West Coast was like catching a bus. A plane was leaving to your city every hour. The rear stairs made deplaning much faster than today. In those days Boeing was the safest plane ride. Boeing today is a good example why you don't let the accounts manage the business. Product quality is hard to put on paper.
This was, as you make very clear, a different kind of video. You also make clear that you personally flew the 727 a lot and love it. With that level of transparency, I'm very glad you cut loose and invited us in to your knowledge of and expertise about the 727.
I enjoyed this a lot, like I enjoy all of your videos.
What a pleasure to listen to... high time we return to these values. Thank you
I am more than happy to hear you discuss the non-technical aspects of aircraft.
Hi Greg, great video. In 1974 I worked for the refueling company at Colorado Springs Airport. Continental and Braniff were the main airlines and they flew almost exclusively 727’s. Continental also flew DC-9’s and 720’s. Watching those 727’s run down that 11,000’ runway was always fun. They used almost all of it on a hot day and climbed out slowly. COS is over 6,000’, so they had their work cut out for them.
On a clear day, you could watch them fly away for miles on end with the smoke show behind them. I worked out COS for awhile as well.
I love your channel Greg ! The “767” photo you used to discuss wings , flaps, etc. is a 777 . To be fair , I could identify planes , as a child, before many people could see them . I lived on the downwind leg of what were 18L&R in Tampa , in the 60’s -80’s ; flights coming up from Miami , Ft.Lauderdale , Ft.Meyers even Sarasota , for a time , were served by 727s of National and Eastern Airlines .As a child , I could here planes on the the downwind , because of how loud they were, well before they’d arrive at a point above my home, especially the 727 ; but only when fully configured for landing ; however, occasionally, a hotshot pilot would come over low and probably just under 250 , leaving me no time to run outside to catch a glimpse as he began his left base, making it hard to imagine how he’d slowed and configured the thing to land ; but , 72’s could do that, and probably the only type that could .
Dammit, you're right, that's a 777 and I said 767. Anyway, the correction has been added to the video description and the flap designs are about the same anyway so it doesn't effect the video content. The 727s could slow down really fast, so we could the outer marker at pretty high speeds and still land with no problem.
As I recall, 727s were prone to crashing due to stalling on final approach. As I understood it, if a crew was too low, and wanted to extend an approach, they pulled the nose up, sometimes excessively so. That worked fine unless there were small, circular, low pressure cells due to weather (rainy, windy). The wind of a small low pressure cell might be blowing briskly on the nose one minute, but quickly the opposite side of the small, circular low would be blowing on the tail, due to movement of the cell across the path of the airplane. The wind could quickly change from blowing on the nose to blowing on the tail. It was a rapid change of indicated airspeed of 2x wind velocity (indicated airspeed decreased very quickly as the wind changed direction 180 degrees. and blew on on the tail). Reminds me of a saying from back in the day. "Young Buck stood on the burning deck, as naked as the mast pole. He knew the low was on his left, cause the wind blew up his @ssholle." This 180 degree change in wind direction in a very short period of time could be enough to stall the airplane, which went in, short of the the runway. It was advised to fly a little faster on final, as I recall, in those kinds of weather conditions. Being very attentive to indicated airspeed was good in those weather conditions. Dang. That was a long time ago. Many many years ago it was my impression that "Windshear" referred to Clear Air Turbulence, where the interface of two air masses, one going up and the other going down, could break up an airplane at high altitude. It seemed like the terminology changed at some point. It seems like the term windshear made more sense referring to the actual shearing conditions that could occur at high altitude, but now Windshear applies to the small, low pressure cell phenomenon, usually on final. Anyway. My Dad could predict when the wind would change, to within less than a minute. He'd say watch. The wind is about to change direction. I've seen him do it. I miss him. It seemed that later the term windshear was changed to mean what I described above, with the small. low pressure cells swirling around in rainy, windy conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong on the evolution of the terminology. I found it confusing for awhile.
Bravo, very informative and entertaining even without the charts and graphs. Well done.
I grew up in the Canadian arctic. I had many flights on Pacific Western Airlines 727's. I believe at least one was a combi. There was something cool about boarding via the back stairs. I still consider it the most beautiful airliner ever made. It wasn't bad inside but it was ear splitting loud from the ground on takeoff. In the deep of winter, you could clearly hear that thing blast off, all the way from town...almost 10 miles away.
Greg. I appreciate the videos. My Dad worked for approx 35 years at United Airline's Maintenance Center in San Francisco. He did just about everything but many of the years, he ran the test cell for the 727 engines until the late '90's. He started his career as a flight engineer in the Navy in the late '50's and flew Airborne Early Warning in Super Connie's between Midway Island and Alaska from '60 -early '64. Hearing you in the videos reminds me of all the stories he used to share. THANK YOU!
Great video Greg. I still have cargo (and zero-G) 727s come into the fbo where I work fairly frequently. many of the photos you used are of planes that I know well. Simply my favorite airliner. One of these days however its going to be the last time that I see one, and that saddens me already.
The first time I ever flew on a plane was on a 727 on November 20, 1971. I remember the date, because it was the date that I was drafted into the US Army and was flown from the induction center at Butte, Montana to SeaTac International Airport on my way to Fort Lewis, WA for basic training. The airport in Butte was a very small facility, and was a perfect case for the 727. We boarded via the rear staircase. Despite the circumstances, it was a magical experience. I have had a soft spot for the 727 ever since.
I still remember my single flight on a 727 with Air Canada in the 1970s. I distinctly recall the takeoff thrust! It was very high performance and the aggressive rotation was pretty cool too!
The 737 used to be a great aircraft until Boeing committed mass murder on the MAX. I've flown on the MAX and they have a distinctive landing characteristic where there is a slim tolerance in flaring the landing.
Thanks for a great video!
Andy, from Canada.
I hired in on the 727 final assembly line in 1978. Made an astonishing $6.19 an hour. My favorite commercial airplane. So easy to work on and everything fit like it should.
I’m not as educated as the other commenters here, but I’ve always had so much love and interest in all Boeing aircraft, and it’s beyond heartbreaking (also sickening) what Boeing has become.
I worked around the 727 in 1966. I was always impressed with the wing. It was a neat airplane. You are right about the type of thinking then and now. The slide rule guys knew what they were doing. The engineers from that era were the best since they built the pyramids.
The computer screen, numerical methods and modeling killed engineering design….
The plane that came with its own staircase. I remember boarding PSA in 1972, Ontario-SanDiego.
Funny how pilots called them "seven-two's" and Boeing engineers called them "two-sevens".
(Back in the 1990's my cousin was a pilot and I was a Boeing engineer.)
It was an amazing aircraft. I was a younger mechanic when I jumped from GA(general aviation) to CA(commercial aviation) and started heavy maintenance on 727’s. Rugged, dependable, safe reliable, and very very easy to work on. Such a well thought out and designed aircraft for the operator and the end user passengers. One of my fondest memories is removing the nose landing gear brake systems from the 727 - 100s to save weight when our company sold them to FedEx. FedEx at the time was still operating falcon jets I went on several LAF (local acceptance flights) after a heavy maintenance check(D, five year inspection). Our dedicated test pilots really put the airplane through its spaces right up through stall warnings flaps no flaps, gearedgear down, gear up, high speed with the the clicker raging , manual gear extensions (manual cranking and visual check’s for locked and down)and plain hand flying in slow flight(the inboard ailerons were awesome, were mechanically locked out with flaps retracted) so well designed. Just a fantastic airplane. What really amazes me even to this day is how few discrepancies there were after this test flight after being totally disassembled, repaired and put back together.
I love the 727 I remember Landing on Kodiak Island Alaska you're bringing back many fond memories
Great video, Greg! Thanx! The 727 was one of my favorite jets as a passenger.
Doors and hatches are no joke on pressurized aircraft. When I was at Delta I saw 3 contractors fired on the spot and walked out for acidentally untourqing the bolts on the bulk cargo door mounts. Those tolerances are so critical and percise that they had to have engineers evaulate it for repair.
Back in the 70’s when I was a new hire FE at Braniff Airways one of the crotchety old CA’s maintained that the limiting factor for airspeed in the 727 was “speaker volume”. I didn’t quite comprehend until I became an FO and discovered while generally the 727 has a quiet cabin, the shape of the nose/windshield/cockpit area was probably where the airframe went transonic first. Same for the KC-135 and 737 which I flew later in my career.
Been waiting for this one Greg, the 727 being PSAs mainline carrier brings back memories of west coast traveling in and out of San Diego, along with its wide smile painted right behind the nose cone ! PSA painted that smile on thier smaller turboprops later on when they started flying shorter, more regional flight routes, but never looked as good as the 727. Thanks for the check ride !
I remember reading an engineering book on the plane, one of the main things it was optimized for was landing at LGA. Of course the airstair didn't get much use after D.B. Cooper exited it in flight.
Greg, just fyi, you got me into flying. 😃 I'm working on my glider cert then going powered. If you read this, I would love to see a video on gliding. I'm sure you could find some sort of historic angle that people would find fascinating. Take care, J.
Wow, thanks, that's quite a compliment. The only glider stuff I have talked about is in the Me163 series. Even then, it's not much.
I have flown on nearly every successful plane mentioned in this video. I loved flying on the 727 more than all the rest put together!! It was obvious to me this was and remains the best plane Boeing ever made for wide use. It was fast and the wing was a work of art & engineering science!! It could grow more than any other wing ever made and cleaned up a solid .90 mach racer! I was fortunate enough to study and pass the FEX writtens. Because I wanted to!! I wanter to fly these things but never got to fly 121. This is an excellent video about a really great jetliner!! Thank you!!
The "3 holer" has to be one of the most pretty jet liners in history. That classic Boeing nose, the beautiful wing planform, (w/slats and awesome flaps), as well as the centerline thrust of the 3 engines.... they looked strong, fast, and safe. Modern twins, if you do have an engine out have to fly on only 50% thrust rather than the 66% in the trijet. A great design and a Great aircraft!
The 727 was a workhorse of interstate routes from the mid-60s to early 80s in Australia. I was a budding flight instructor for much of the middle of that period (Victas, Skippers, Sundowners and Bonanzas) and worked at Hawker De Havilland (now Boeing Aerostructures Australia), who manufactured wing ribs and rudders for the -200 series (under 'offset' arrangements). I have three abiding recollections of 727s:
- It was the first jet in which I flew as a passenger. After being only dragged around by a piston driven propellor, they were a delight of smooth flying and effortless power.
- Working on Boeing contracts transformed HDH from a 'English Disease' workplace into something truly competitive. All the bits we made inspired confidence in the aircraft. The 727 was a seriously solid piece of construction; although the F chords (top and bottom of the wing spars) were not the easiest thing to construct (and were the 'critical path' in our manufacturing process).
- A group of four of us had been invited for a night visit to the radar centre at Sydney Airport. Back in those days fitting a 'lightie' in amongst the traffic to Sydney Airport was easy. After a pretty night flight over the harbour in calm conditions, we were vectored around across Botany Bay, crossing the path of a 727 that was just landing way off to our right on a cross runway (34). Wingtip vortices were not as well known back then, and we flew straight through those left in its wake. Fastest slamming up/down/up roller coaster ride (probably all in under a second or so) I've ever been on. All of us immediately looked out at the wings of the Sundowner (or was it an older Musketeer??) to see if they were still there and still straight. 727 wings sure produced some turbulence in landing configuration.
This is a great video. I worked as a mechanic on 727s for a few years and it was my favorite plane.
I did a short stint as a UPS plane loader in the early 00's and one of the planes I loaded was a 727. The other one was a modern A300. It was night and day differences on everything, even the interior. I much preferred loading the 727. Despite being a cargo plane it had actual interior paneling instead of exposed everything.
very very interesting and well put together ! and just as important, you are very easy to listen to. keep up the great work !
I remember flying on a B-727 into La Paz, Bolivia on Eastern Airlines in 1983. We used the built-in stairs in the rear of the aircraft to disembark and walk to the terminal.
I experienced some horrible weather in a 727. Even the flight attendants were white-knuckling the arms of their seats. After we managed to get on the ground through heavy rain and wind, I was convinced the 727 was one hell of a well-built aircraft. I'm sure I took over a hundred flights on the 727. I love that plane.
It was fine. I flew in 1970 & 80.
Loved the 727! My Dad worked for Eastern Airlines which had many of these aircraft in service when we were flying as s family. Those were the days! 💙
I flew on B727 in 2002 on my honeymoon out of DFW on Champion Airlines. That aircraft was a rocket just like the B757. They later flew that same aircraft into the desert to simulate a crash test. I still have the flight information plus tail number to confirm this. I now work as a ramp tower control and get to see lots of old aircraft going to cargo. DFW still has a 727 on display at our FTRC if you want to see one in person.
Absolutely beautiful 727 and other plane photos. Thanks for the video.
In September 1979, I was travelling from Malaysia to Los Angeles CA USA. We had a stopover at San Francisco Airport where we deplaned and switched to a Western 727 to LAX. I still remember that flight as that was the 3rd time on an airliner (the 1st was the Singapore Airlines 737 from KUL to SIN, then on a Singapore Airlines 747 from SIN to SFO with a stopover at HNL). I was attending Northrop University to study Aeronautical Engineering. (No, I didn't complete it, but switched to a BSET program that started with a 58 week long A & P course.) Still am avgeek to this day.
Greg there is a procedure for running the APU in flight for two engine ferry. Enjoyed your video. Several of your photos were airplanes I flew. The 727 was good to me and my flying career. I was in a whirlwind fast training cycle and made Captain in 1985 flying for the contractors for UPS at SDF. Very likely we crossed paths in the middle of the night in a crew room somewhere. In '98 I was flying the DC-8, another one of my favorites. I have way too many 727 stories for this comment section. I'm old and retired now, finishing up on the 747. My longest 727 flight was a ferry, SFO-PHNL. 6+22. landed with 3300 in the center tank, that was a tight one. That airplane(727-100) lived in Honolulu and did island cargo runs.
I never did a two engine ferry. My wife felt it would invalidate my life insurance. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it made sense to me. I never saw that procedure though. Anyway, I was at Kitty Hawk and DHL, so I did my time in Toledo, Ft. Wayne, CVG, that postal hub out in Mather and so on. We probably did cross paths.
Living near Glasgow Airport I saw [ and heard] Tridents several times a day - I can't remember seeing a 727 although I'm sure I must have.
I have very strong memories of flights on 727's in the 80's. This jet was like a rocket ship at take off and quiet inside. May be now we can look back at this time as the golden era of Boeing. And as we all know what Boeing are making now is vastly different and sometimes awkward. Boeing really need to focus again and pay far more attention to the basics.
@@Plutogalaxy I'm a non smoker, the back 5 or 6 rows of the aircraft were always setup for smokers
Just found your channel and I’m hooked. I’m an aviation geek and private pilot with experience as a CH-46 mechanic/crewman in the USN. I’ve always been fascinated by the 727 and actually flew on a Continental 727 around ‘77 from El Paso to Houston Intercontinental. But the best thing is, I flew on a Southwest 727 in ‘85 or so from Love Field to SA. One of the hardest landings I’ve ever experienced 😮
Great memories and I love that 727!
Flew hundreds of flights as a passenger in 727's and DC9s.... 727 was my favourite, I remember the stair case under the tail which could be opened for a quick exit in the days when many airports did not have boarding bridges. Also on one occasion aboard a 727 we encountered Clear Air Turbulence, the airplane survived it no problem. Built like a brick S***house !
Great video, I know this channel's more technical but would love more of your insight on the business side of things
Let's see how this video does. I don't want to commit to making more videos like this one just yet.
I spent 13 years flying the 3-holer, 11 of those years as captain. It was a great airplane and a joy to fly.
Hmm, I know a Jim Bonney from DHL Airways.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Must be some other guy. I worked at ASTAR Air Cargo😁
My favourite aeroplane
Just retired last year after 33years at a major. Fondly spent 9 years on the 727, half at the panel and half in the right seat. No FMS or GPS, just basic VOR and ADF. Loved ever minute (mostly). Loved your detailed history and great photos. Thanks. I do remember that Caravelle parked just south of where RWY 27 is now at CVG!
One of my favorite aircraft ever! Just loved flying on them every chance I could. Those Pratt & Whitney engines the closest you could get to a military turbojet sound!
The comparison between Boeing of yore and Boeing now is 100% spot on, zero exceptions. Hence, I'm going to post this on my 'X' account with Boeing in mind because they must realize just had badly the company has lost it's once awesome 'Mojo' to greed (i.e. via shortcuts), over it's once true 'Dedication to Excellence' as evidenced by it's "Magnificent B-727".
* My two personal favorite jetliners - The Boeing 727 and Lockheed L-1011.
According to friends of mine who were engineers at Boeing at the time, the company culture changed after it purchase McD, and not for the better. One friend put it this way: Before the merger, Boeing was an engineering company that sold airplanes. After the sale it was an airplane sales company that hired engineers.
I’m so glad you’ve covered a jet finally, especially the 727
We have an entire 727 cockpit at my school in Orlando. Very cool to sit in the flight engineer seat. And it's a huge departure from modern glass cockpit stuff.
I would totally agree with you on that Boeing Company is not what it used be. I am a Boeing brat. My dad worked for the old Boeing Company from February 2, 1959 to July 31, 1995.
This was great. I always loved the 727 and similar Douglas DC-9 as a kid. I used to spend hours watching those two flying in and out of Greater Pittsburgh. Thanks, Greg, for a great nostalgic and historic video!
UPS bought some old 727s and got he airframe zeroed out and intalled RR Tay engines. basically a new aircraft . I worked on a few of them in Cologne Germany UPS hub. it has 2 man glass cockipit HUD display.
How long ago was that? I'm sure they're not in the fleet anymore. 😢
I was lucky enough to fly as a passenger on the Caravel, Trident and 727 (and the BAC111 great little plane). All three were very quiet, especially if you sat towards the front. I well remember my first 727 flight, the wing looked not much different to the Trident until it was time to land, things came out of everywhere. I remember a flight back from Germany on a Lufthansa 727 and being handed a newspaper with the front page containing that photograph of a 727 just before it crashed.
Very impressive resume, way to go mate !
Never thought of becoming a pilot but i was fortunate to work in the Aerospace industry for 15 years here in Montreal at Bombardier Aerospace which used to be privately owned by Canadair LTD. My dad worked at Canadair from 1941 to 1984 and he held a high position as Director down in Machine shop & was also responsible for about 150 imspectors in Quality Control & Quality Assurance ! We had many different contracts with a variety of Companies such as Airbus A330, Nose cone on the FA-18 Hornet. Our Cl215/415 Waterbomber & our own Canadair Challenger 604-3A. I also remember having many different Boeing jobs, sub contracts ! What we see now happening with Boeing is quite shocking & was completely unheard ! I clearly remember and it wasn't too long ago when Boeing would never cut corners especially removing inportant inspection operations when under no circomstances would just never happen ! I remember seeing People from boeing being in our shops on a regular basis & whenever we had new contracts / sub-contracts it wasn't unheard of having engineers / employees working with us for many months just to ensure quality / quality assurance.
Incidents seem to be happening on a weekly basis now at Boeing & now this whistleblower found dead is beyond belief. I do not see other way around having to ground every single 737 Max & 777X grounded until they fix all their safety issues. If or when this happens Boeing wound be able to recover from this !
Flew on a lot of 727s on TWA in the 1980s. Always enjoyed watching the elaborate flaps and slats operating.
You imply that Eastern's "Whisperjet" name referred to the noise level outside the aircraft. It referred to the sound level in the cabin which was exceptionally quiet except in the last few rows, but even there it wasn't noticeably worse in my experience than the last few rows on a 737-200 where you were behind the engine outlets, unlike the 727. Eastern also used the Whisperjet name for a while on their DC-9s.
Further to the rear airstairs on the 727, front airstairs were also an option, identical to those on early 737s and an option on later models, including the MAX (Ryanair has the airstairs on all ther 737-800s and MAXs). I recall CP Air in Canada had the front airstairs on their 727s and rarely used the rear stairs for passenger boarding/deplaning.
I remember climbing the back stairs to board and deplane in the 70s as a kid in Austin. Thought it was sooooo cool! I seem to remember that there was a small window (~3”) by the bathroom where you could see the bulkhead (but I could be wrong).
The 727 is the most beautiful jet airliner ever made. At least to me.
🤓 💯 🤓
My dad worked for American Airlines in the early 80’s and through 2013ish time frame. We flew on many 727’s in the 80’s and 90’s and many S80’s/MD80’s. We had a flight on a 727 delayed about an hour. We took off and the Captain come’s on the intercom later and tells us we are arriving on time and if you look out the window you will see we are traveling about 600 mph. My mind was blown. We were hauling ass and you could see it. I loved flying on the 727. Now when we moved to DFW I could always tell when a 727 was taking off because how loud they were. But it was music to my ears every time. We lived right near the end of one of the runways at DFW International Airport. A great airplane and I miss them. Also great seeing three heads in the cockpit. 727👍🏻👍🏻
I grew up in the Seattle Area and have a number of friends that have worked at Boeing on the factory floor. They have all told me that the ground level culture is much the same as its been for the past 50+ years. They have all told me that themselves and the old timer employees they have worked with believe that the merger with Mcdonell Douglas and the absorption of its poor executive leadership (Which prioritized profits and ran Mcdonnel Douglas into the ground) has been the catalyst for most of the problems Boeing has faced. It takes months, years and decades for issues as a result poor culture in an organization to manifest and cause visible harm to that organizations product. Most of my friends that work at Boeing believe the only way to get the Company's commercial airliner division back on track is to do a clean slate rebuild of Boeing higher echelon management back to the pre MD merger norm of Engineers becoming senior leadership and not corporate executives that dont understand the unique mindset and culture that comes with building airplanes.
I have been told the same thing by current and old former Boeing employees. The people who build the planes are good and know their job. Management is the problem.
I can remember back in the day living in DFW area when you heard a jet taking off or landing it was a 727. First jet I ever flew in was a 727, loved that thing.