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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- Monster Hunter World and Iceborne aren't praised for their compelling narratives, but that's not to say there's nothing of value to be found there. The final bosses of base World and its Iceborne expansion, Xeno'jiiva and Shara Ishvalda, develop and explore a shared theme - and a pretty interesting one at that.
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My favorite line comes from The Seeker after you slay Safi'Jiiva. He remarks that Safi takes any lands its on and molds to fit its needs despite how selfish that is. Which in turns makes him see that humans have also been doing the same and how they might be more alike than we think.
Which personally also makes me like Nergigante because its a mirror of the Hunter as a Monster. Taking down threats to the ecological world similar to the 5th Fleet Hunters
See now that is the proper angle to the old meme of "are we the true monsters here" for this franchise. We are definitely monsters, but the choice comes in what we do with that power, either succumbing to greed like the unnatural Elders or being a guiding and protective force like Nergigante.
Well in lore at least, this is still a game and so aside from the in-universe reason of crafting better gear to better do your job the hunting for fashion is just game fun.
its just fantastic, to have a franchise that doesnt really have a good story, or any story for that, to tell everything with the beasts we hunt, the world, the ecosystem and how it works. not to forget that if they lay out some lore bits here and there, its pretty much always a fascinating bit in which one craves more.
world is truly one of their best games, in monster design alone
@@Exel3nce Why do Iove A about my
Creatures
B?
Creature
C?
Creatures
D?
Creatures
E?
CREATURES!!!!!!
Nah, Capcom tried wayy too hard on making Nergigante likeable and people fell for it lmao.
Capcom: "Let's have Nergigante finish off Shara Ishvalda instead of the hunters"
@@MillenniumEarl014did you even watch the video
I think it's notable to mention that, even as destructive as Elders are, even ones like Shara, they're still animals that play a role. The official books reveal that the Highlands and Vale are the result of an exploding Zorah Magdaros, one whose blast was equal to that of the Zorah we repelled. That launched Corals into the air, and corpses fell into the pit below. Giant Dalamadur died in the pit eventually, and Shara was born there, and Shara in turn helped to create the Vale as well. Shara is said to destroy ecosystems from their foundation, yet also create the foundations for new ones. The Vale would go on to affect the entire New World, being where things, not just Elders it seems, go to die, fuelling the continent with Bioenergy. There's a comment by one of the characters in the book, that's them wondering if Xeno'jiiva was responsible for organizing the flow of Bioenergy in the New World. While they claim Xeno had become unsustainable, even being called greedy, we know they're a species, so it's interesting to consider. Elders can certainly be destructive, but it is through destruction that there is new creation, and other than many being living forces of nature, I feel that's a theme many of them have.
I'll end this rambling with dialogue from the Commander at the start of World
"It's not about hunting down elder dragons, or punishing them for the damage they cause. The Commission seeks an understanding of their place in nature...and ours. That's the point. The elder dragons ARE nature, and its as futile to try and punish nature as it is to run from it. But KNOWING nature... Now that's something we can do. We're going to face a lot of tough decisions moving forward. But before you take life, or move to defend it... understand it. That's what makes you a Hunter."
This exactly. I think tomkon also misunderstood the thing about calling Safi as sapphire star betraying humanity. I feel like the people before the fifth fleet gave that name to Safi because he is akin to a force of nature, it lures both hunters and elders in and becomes an anchor but in the same way burns them if they got to close. Also yea Safi and Shara still have a purpose in the ecosystem, the tale of the five briefly mentioned it in a fantastical manner along with the other elders. My head cannon is Safi is responsible for drawing bioenergy (both via the “leylines” and elders/monsters) to recharge the new land. And Shara is basically the terra former for the initial landscape. The way i see it we hunt those elders to halt progression and preserve the current ecosystem, if let on their own there will be new worlds yes, but most of the current one also will be gone. The cycle of the old world burning and new world emerging would be so quick that only those that can adapt fast enough get to survive (similar to what’s basically happening in the guiding lands). Also yep the fifth is there to understand nature, aside from hunting there are taking pictures, investigating tracks, etc. Considering the next title is going to be named Paradise i’m really hoping we get permaculture simulation on -steroids- bioenergy where we manage the desired ecosystem by hunting/capturing/driving away monsters.
Elder Dragons aren't really animals the way other monsters are, I'd say. They're forces of nature that can cause cataclysmic events that reshape ecosystems dramatically. Like the asteroid that (may have) wiped out the dinos or the tectonic shift that broke up Pangea but still nature adapts.
@@anonymouswhite7957 Safi literally does what the researcher suspects Xeno to do, but on a smaller scale. We see it ourselves.
@@johncronk8867 I think that Safi affects the environment quite the same (I even think it's the adult version of Xeno ?), but is less destructive, more controlled, as it has grown to its adult state. Add to that that the Safi feeds on energy, and that the place we fight them on is already almost exhausted, I think Safi has managed to understand how much energy it needs to heal and/or feed so it would not have to destroy other ecosystems by wasting the energy. After all Xeno was a newborn on a land so full of bioenergy it created a whole crystal biome underneath a cristal mountain and a volcano, just beside the river of life. Safi seems to have lived here for decades, dispersing its shreded skin all over the place. I think it's also its birthplace since the geology looks like dead crystals and the placement near what's probably the river of life (surrounding the 3rd zone) just mirrors where Xeno was found.
hunters also seem to be the natural predator of a lot of elders, so its not just research, but also keeping the population of particularly destructive ones in check
Xeno feeding from Elder Dragon energy also explains why Safi has that western-dragon look despite being an alien. He tries to make himself the emperor of monsters because he doesn't respect Fatalis at all and the reason for this is that he is not part of that world's evolutionary tree. Sorry for the bad english.
Your English is totally fine, and great thinking! I like that idea a lot.
Xeno’jiiva was designed to be alien-like, but not an actual extraterrestrial.
@@johncronk8867 is it said anywhere that says it isn't? If not I think it's still a viable and plausible theory.
@@johncronk8867 well, ok then
@@cragraven thank you man
I just love the idea that despite all the seemingly stronger monsters and dragons that exist at the end we realize that the true apex predator does not have or need fancy elemental damage all he needs is to be very angry very fast and very pointy
But most importantly...very hungry
It does help that Nergigante has some insane regeneration capabilities as well compared to normal elder dragons. Dude can just regrow spikes almost instantly and recover from being 'killed' in a rather short time.
@@Tazkar Maybe it was just playing dead, i wouldn't doubt that a creature that hunt powerful Elder dragons with brute force and regeneration also would need to be intelligent enough to use some gimmicks to give it the edge in tougher situations
I think Nergigante is a force for Balance, even in the original story; If put into perspective with Xeno'jiiva luring elder dragons, Nergi forcing them back away from the xeno coccoon, even if that causes some storms elsewhere, saves the ecosystem from disaster. Humans attacking and caupturing Zorah Magdaros would make Zorah die(and therefore release its energy) in the middle of the ecosystem, cauzing widespread damage, so he stops them, thinking Zorah is headed to The Rotten Veil, to die naturally and spread its energy harmlessly. It keeps driving elder dragons Away from The Elder's Recess, and when you nearly kill Shara Ishvalda, it swoops in and comes to help end it once and for all, roaring out its victory to you... but not attacking, for in this fight, you are on the same side.
I wouldn't say Nerg is trying to actively help. He is doing what he does to survive, hunting Elder Dragons. It's simply that the ones most appealing to him are the the ones that are particularly lush with Bioenergy, as that is what keeps him going and fuels his constant regeneration. Balancing the ecosystem is a byproduct of his hunting habits, not an active goal he strives for.
@@ShadowKaiserineven without his actions being eventually kind of makes sense nergigante sees you as competition for zora elder dragons huddling up in one place perfect hunting ground and why attack a bunch of hairless apes when you got a full-course feast
I don't really think Nergigante could have killed Shara Ishvalda without the hunters interference.
Shara's rock armor and it living mainly underground is a great protection.
But by playing dead and waiting for the hunter to break the rock armor and weaken it, then ambushing Shara, then it might be able to kill Shara.
It might have tried it to do it anyway but seeing the hunter it might have had an idea to let the hunter do most of the work.
Also after that it didn't attack the humans but just grimly looked at them and then flew away.
It's not a mindless beast. It calculates every move it does.
That is the thing about elder dragons. While an alien intelligence they are at least as intelligent as humans. Maybe more so in some cases. But they generally lack two traits that allow humans to dominate in this world of monsters. Tool use and language. Few, if any monsters demonstrate tool use(fatalis does as it will melt to armor and weapons of hunters to its hide to make itself stronger but this is part of the reason it is so feared. It absolutely will play by the same rules as humans. But this is an anomaly.) and while monsters may possess some means of getting across general concepts they generally have no means of directly and easily giving detailed information. But this does not mean the beast is not carefully thinking through what is going on and what to do. It just does so from its very solitary point of view.
@@jacobfreeman5444 I think one of the most intelligent monsters has to be Ahtal-Ka.
It is not only able to use tools, but also to build a giant mecha. Not even humans in Monster Hunter have mechas themselves.
@@obambagaming1467 yeah, that one is a trip. The insect monsters really seem out of place sometimes because they seem to out perform the godly elder dragons in odd ways. Really hammers home the point not all the dangerous super powers are of dragon descent
@@jacobfreeman5444 I’d say Velkhana also shows tool usage, to a lesser extent. It wears frozen magma and ice as armor, and creates a makeshift weapon out of ice and its tail.
-I don’t really know if using elemental powers like that actually counts as tool usage but I’m biased since Velkhana’s my favorite monster from World lol-
Agreed
its also especially interesting to note that Safi'jiva's (xeno'jiva's adult form) arena-wiping attack is literally called "sapphire of the emperor"
That Nergigante cutscene with Shara is genuinely one of my favourite moments in any game's story ever. Thank you for the video.
The firsth time i saw the cutscene i screamed YES EAT HE'S ASS. I was so frustrated for all the try's i had to make (im italian, so sorry if i wrote something wrong)
not only that, they are also one of the coolest monster the franchise ever created, which is an achievent, for there are soooo many and the people still had so much imagination for them to create such masterclasses
@@saverionicolai5098 instead of “he’s” the right word would’ve been “his”. Other that minor error your English is so good I honestly thought that was a typo.
@@MoonbornUwU thanks man.
@@Exel3nce That cutscene and the ending credits after was probably the closest I've felt to having an almost spiritual experience in a video game.
Iceborne blew my mind twice
1: When I noticed during my first hunt that Shara's eyes follow thr player rather than the character. That freaked me out on an unholy frightening level.
2: When I realized that Nergigante was the protector of the natural ecosystem rather than its disruptor. I was so shocked and he went from being my favorite monster to fight to my favorite monster period. It's basically the Batman of the Monster Hunter world and I freaking love it! Once stories 2 came out, he was my first priority to make part of my team.
The eyes do in fact NOT follow the player, they don't even move, it's just an optical ilusion
@@anormalhumanhopefully8570 they are still made to look like they follow the player which is really cool, even if technically its just a neat little visual trick.
"to an unholy frightening level"...really? its just a cool 4th wall breaking moment but thats just it, it has been done thousand of times and even in paintings
@@bpmfj5422 Yes, breaking the 4th wall is very common. Its a trope. But the combination of this being my first MH game, on top of the crazy design of the monster, the struggle to survive along with the sudden realization that it was following me, freaked me out. Its cool if it didn't bother you. Don't care. But it freaked me out when I first saw it because it was something I wasn't expecting during a high tense situation.
@@anormalhumanhopefully8570 ofc they move, are you high ? (nothing personal) even the video shows it
Another interesting thing that happens in Iceborne that fits this interpretation is the role Velkhana plays in it. For the majority of the story we believe Velkhana to be the Old Everwyrm and hold it responsible for the ecological threat brewing. In our rush to stop it, we slay it, only to find it out was not even the cause of the danger. It essentially became collateral damage caused by the hunter's quest to quell the Old Everwyrm
I mean that's pretty much how most monster hunter stories go. The flagship is the threat that we have to hunt only to then realize there's an even bigger threat that we need to fight.
@@SCF721 Velkhana: “Guys, Shara is weak to Ice; let me handle it…” *gets killed*
Hunters: “Ok then, lets turn your body into a hammer!”
To be fair, Velkhana was still invading and freezing everything in it's path on the main continent of the New World. Even if Velk wasn't the one blasting obnoxious tunes, it was still turning Anjanaths and such into popsicles. Elders have been killed for less.
Kinda like Tris story, the village thinks its Lagi thats causing the earthquakes, but its actually Ceadeus
I think the most interesting thing about Nergigante is that there is ever only one which your hunter fights again and again the entire game. Nergigante's regenerative abilities and its dramatic entrance against Shara Ishvalda imply that each time Nergigante is killed by you or in a fight with another elder dragon, it comes back to life to fight once more. Alone, covered in scars, broken spikes and blood; Nergigante's story is the wheel that turns and is the namesake of the final quest.
Unrelated but it was impossible for me to love the story of Nergigante and then try to move on with Magnamalo. Magnamalo had no relevance to the wind serpents and was only ever a "bad guy" in the context of the story. It was only ever a scavenger and its death changed nothing. Flagship monsters are not guaranteed to be thematically involved with the story but Nergigante set a very high bar.
you're actually not too far off- Nergigante reproduce via a spike with an absurd amount of accumulated bioenergy inside of it, which eventually breaks off and grows into an identical copy of it's parent. Ruiner Nergigante is likely the direct offspring of the one we fight in base World.
@@cometstar4077 Hell, it may even be the parent of the one we fought. Ruiners are old and grizzled Nergs who've survived God knows how many battles over several years so it wouldn't be too far fetched to assume the Nerg we beat up in Base World was Ruiner's kid.
actually, nergi, like every monster, is a species. Meaning there are far more than one of them. You have just encountered several different nergi in your time playing the game
It's worth pointing out, shara is literally a Buddha, every inch of it is steeped in Buddhist iconography and meaning and even it's name which takes the word for heaven and the name ishvara which is an alternate spelling of Shiva. His head is a lotus which are tied heavily to the Buddha and bodhisattva, and even it's transition is a reference to craving Buddha's from rock, revealing the Buddha from within. You mentioned it's teeth, that's also a reference as shara has 40 teeth matching the Buddha. Even it's eyes reference the Buddha's enlightenment as even when closed, they're looking straight at the camera, not at the player character, meaning shara ishvalda at no point is paying attention to your character, it's enlightened and knows that we exist out in the real world and is breaking the 4th wall as it stairs us down and fights specifically with us.
Shara has 8 wing fingers -> eightfold path
Shara Ishvalda’s official render sits upright, and his chest and abdomen are sunken in, creating the image of an emaciated ascetic Buddha
Arena is also literally a zen garden which Shara rakes with it’s fingers
Going further into the Shiva aspect of Shara Ishvalda’s name, Shiva is the lord of destruction in Hindu and Buddhist myths. His dance increases in frenzy as he drums the destruction of the world, which in turn creates a clean slate for Brahma to work with, which is very reminiscent of Shara Ishvalda collapsing ecosystems to create new ones. Shiva, being the symbol of the end of cycles, will also visit cremation sites. He and sometimes Shiavites (his followers) will smear human ashes on their skin, giving them a grey pale complexion. Shara Ishvalda is also predominantly a pale grey color. Shara has some blue in his palette too, which is not only tied to the legend where Shiva swallowed poison that turned his throat blue, but also the fact that most deities in hindu myth are shown having blue skin. In Hinduism blue is a symbol of infinity and divinty. Humans cannot perceive infinity, so we default to the color blue, hence why the sky is blue on a clear day according to hindu myth
Very, very goddamn cool. I thank all three of you for sharing.
@@PrismaticGeyserr also, it reminded me of the 1,000 hands, since both wings are akin to large, batlike fingers with the 5th being a stub
A bit late, but I’m pretty sure Shara’s eyes DONT actually track the camera at all, they track the player, it’s just an unintentional quirk of how they’re modeled.
Interesting thought if you look at both bosses in another perspective:
- You hunt in the New World and explore each new monster they give you and every old one. You end, fittingly, at the newest thing the world could give you: an alien.
- After you've hunted aliens, what's next? You're guided by Nergigante into the fight against Shara Ishvalda. You transcend and then fight Gods. And after the gods, you reach "paradise" - The Guiding Lands. And then you fight the demon itself - Fatalis.
From the perspective of player progression and discovery, the player has explored every avenue possible - from the realistic to the strange, then towards discovering a new species in the form of aliens, and finally reaching the Gods' pantheon for discovery. Isn't that neat?
Thats actually a neat perspective given Fatalis was NEVER part of the dev plan to start with. Ol Fatty was only added because they showed what a HD rendered Fatalis looked like during the celebration of the series (that was a nice video) and everyone went nuts. Frankly the fact that we got 2 of the 4 Black Dragons in MHW:IB is insane looking back on it.
800h hours and I never even considered any of this, I feel like I now understand a part that I had always ignored of one of my favourite games. Great video!
I think that one other interesting clue is the name of Arch Tempered Xeno quest: "Like a moth to the flame"...we the hunters are the moths, lured by Xeno's light, the Sapphire Star.
Also, and this is much more known, Safi Jiiva's final attack is known as Sapphire of the Emperor.
Also, God I love Shara's design! Truly feels like a God. You're not fighting a monster, but a divine being.
I pretty much never once got bored of the story, half the time it was extremely immersive to me encountering all the creatures in an uncharted continent and the older fleet of hunters were all interesting to chat with to get the lore. I felt like Nigel Marven in Walking with Dinosaurs.
And then Iceborne came in and it suddenly felt intensely ominous like you were digging too deep into the world and growing too proud, its starting to show its dangers and its complex system that humbles you alongside the much later endgame elders, it was truly an experience to remember and its themes about humans and monsters coexisting is one of the reasons why I love Nergigante so much.
I never really paid attention to the story. I was like "Hunting monsters is the focus of the game, I don't really need a story" but it's actually a pretty good story and you did a really good job emphasizing that.
I'm not going to lie, I like all of this EXCEPT the "Shara's eyes follow the player" bit. I think the reason Shara appears to be looking at us rather than our hunter-character is the same reason you might go to some gimmick festival that claims to have a painting whose eyes follow you but they really don't.
What appears to be the "pupil" is sunk way into the back of the monster's eye, which would cause it to appear to follow you whenever you shift your position around the dragon's head. It isn't the pupil that is moving, it's our perspective of where it is because of where we think it is (on the outside convex surface of the eye) compared to where it ACTUALLY is (inside the eye, in the back of the concave).
I love your explanation of how and why we become "the Sapphire Star" though. I always thought that part was so corny and never liked it, but put in this context it feels like it makes a lot more sense.
A thing you may have missed when you mentioned that it turned out Nergigante was part of the natural processes of this world to, is that it really put into perspective the timescale we live on vs the timescale nature exists on. The balance and unbalancing of nature may be part of a natural process that takes hundreds of years to see out, something humans wouldn't be able to comprehend after just arriving there for a few weeks, so a creature causing chaos like Nergigante seems un-natural but that is purely due to how our view of timescale differs from nature's. If you look at that, then it's easy to draw the conclusion that Xeno'Jiiva is the same way. After all, it too existed on this continent before us. Perhaps it is also a natural creature here that has existed for generations long before humans arrived and the chaos it caused by drawing elder dragons away from their natural habitats is another ebb and flow in the perfectly natural processes of this island. Just as we learned with Shara Ishvalda, we may not have stopped a Calamity at all, but we may have rather helped to enforce a bigger one over the longterm.
But I think another lesson can be learned here.
Not about whether or not humans are the caretakers of the planet, but rather the idea that Monster Hunter has tried to enforce since the very beginning: that Humans are neither above NOR below nature, but simply a part of it.
We may cause chaos by our arrival in this previously untouched-by-civilization New World, but that chaos, too, is part of nature on that grander timescale. We are not the only ones who have to learn to co-exist with nature, not at all. Nature, too, has to learn to co-exist with the humans who want to live alongside it.
I think the real lesson is that no matter what happens, everything that not only the big monsters do, but us as well, everything is part of the natural cycle of not only the island but the planet as a whole. We are not above it nor below it, we are part of it.
In a way, you were right about how Shara taught us to not fall into hubris, and it was the opposite of the lesson Xeno Jiiva taught us for a reason, because it wasn't about one side being right and another side being wrong, but about how the extremes of either end are BOTH wrong. We cannot just sit idly by and allow things to happen of their own accord (because then we aren't participating in nature), but we also cannot assume we are the sacred, sole purveyors of balance in the world (because there are forces far stronger and beyond our understanding than us).
I know I'm a year late, but I thought it would be neat to mention that the way the MH team got Shara's eyes to follow the camera like that isn’t by some kind of special tracking code, but by simply modelling them as concave (instead of convex like the other monsters).
This creates an effect called the "Hollow Mask" illusion, which tricks your brain into thinking that something is turning to face you, when it’s actually completely stationary.
This is not true. This was a misconception created by some modders who spoke too soon after opening up one of Shara's models. Yes, Shara has concave eyes, which enhances the effect. But it also does track the camera. The same modders who made the claim later debunked their own claim, but nobody listened, because "the Hollow Mask effect is used to exacerbate the feeling created by the eye-tracking" doesn't sound as clever as "there is no eye-tracking, it is just the Hollow Mask effect".
The version of Shara's real body that exists inside of the rock armor does not have eye-tracking enabled. The version that we fight after exposing it is a different model, and does have eye-tracking, which has been confirmed to be set to seek the camera POV instead of the hunter's position like most monsters' eye/face-tracking does. This isn't "special tracking code", it is an extremely simple, tiny adjustment to the existing code that gets used whenever a monster needs to face the hunter. That's part of why it was so easy to overlook.
I can't help but feel bad for nergigante. It's trying to solve the same problem as us but we kill it anyway. I know this happens to a lot of flagship monsters but this happened to nergigante on three separate occasions.
I felt awful for viper- tobi kadachi even more. In the cutscene it appears 1. Were in its specific domain basicly its home uninvited 2. It prob would let us alone if we do run away as tobi seems not keen to predate or attack hunters . So it felt like i was beating up a monster thats usually peaceful in its own home.
@the immortal eye unfortunately that happens to a lot of other monsters. Remember when we had to hunt an odogaron because the handler wanted us to save the tracker when was handling the problem my herself. She even said afterwards that she was hiding and waiting for the odogaron to leave the area. We basically beat up an animal to save someone who wasn't in danger.
@@spacemegalodon5049 ye but tobi just feels even more chill than Odo, he tends to still be defensive and aggro so it makes sense he has a "kill on sight " mentality by the guild, but tobi barely threatens us and even is suggested to not see us as prey or more than an annoyance.
@@theimmortaleye7511 On Unnatural History Channel’s video on Odogaron, they proposed that the reason Odogaron is so aggressive is the same reason the Mustelids that it’s based on are so aggressive: several of their senses are actually quite poor, and due to that, it makes it seem like other creatures are just popping in out of nowhere right next to them. To them, they were basically just ambushed, and attack because they are literally a Cornered Animal in their perspective. It’s why Odogaron will stay around if Vaal Hazak is on the map; Vaal Hazak is covered in corpses and absolutely saturated with Effluvium, which renders it basically invisible to Odogaron, who’s strongest sense is the sense of smell.
@@johncronk8867 ye i watch him too and.love that theory . Just according to the notes and capcom hes suppose to have "short man syndrom" and be a psycho
But jeah odo also is a good doggo😂 and with that theory even sadder as hes misjudged by the guild similar to deviljho
This perfectly sums up why I actually enjoyed MHW and Iceborn's stories so much. Sure, the characters aren't given any specific names, but the story wasn't really about them specifically. The story more broadly was a lesson in how we should view our relationship to nature. The beauty and power of the natural world, and the fragile balance that it maintains, but also that in seeking to maintain that balance we shouldn't allow hubris to get the better of us. It's actually a very poignant theme for an era in which humanity is coming to terms with climate change and ecological destruction, especially for a game that has traditionally just used it's story to give you an excuse to beat the shit out of giant dinosaurs.
It's always been weird to me that people get upset or throw around "no character development!" just because a character isn't named. Naming a character doesn't implicitly mean it has any more depth than calling it "sisterly 5th". The number of named characters...even important ones in some games...that have less development then a lot of MH characters is honestly staggering.
MHW didn't need to name the characters, because the characters weren't what the story was about. They were just carriers of relevant exposition...and even in that some of them had decent character development.
Leaving the characters nameless has also been a series trope from the very beginning. Rise was the first one to give anybody names at all.
@@CephrainWell, it wasn’t the first one to give anyone a name, but it was the first to give *everyone* a name.
The nameless complaint is weird as someone who has played the series a long time. I guess we got such an influx of new people with world they didn't think that it had always been that way.
Shara's eyes don't actually actively follow the camera, but they DO incorporate another reference to buddhist mysticism in the way they create the illusion of following the camera. It's often done on paintings and statues where the eyes are concave so they look to be following you.
I still find it really stupid that Ruiner Nergigante didn't get a special cutscene when you unlock the MR 100 quest. This is supposed to be the same Nergigante that you've been fighting this entire time in one final fight and they gave it nothing
That's why gore magala the goat 🐐
Took me a moment to see what you type but yeah I agree
I thought that the nergi we fought in world and the ruiner individual in iceborne were two different individuals entirely?
@@azuremoon2096 Most likely different ones yes.
lore book mentions that its a another idividual
Most Elder Dragons in the games are essentially treated as gods in our view: Teostra and Lunastra could be the god and goddess of flame, or sun and moon, respectively. Kushala Daora, a god of wind or storm. Vaal Hazak, a god of death, Velkhana of ice and cold, Kirin of lightning, and even Fatalis could be essentially the God of Destruction in MH universe due to it's land-devastating power. In that sentence, i think Nergigante's role in nature is actually a peculiar one, because he is the god of one thing. Now, this may sound like a stupidity, but if you give it thought it might make sense, so be calm and hear me carefully. Nergigante is not a god of earth, of destruction, extinction for one extent, but regardless of this, Nergigante is "our" god, he is a "God of Hunters and Humans". He is a god that represents exactly our role and our power in life. How so, you might be asking?
There are essentially two factor that interpret that:
The first is the hunter part: His role; To make sure Elder Dragons do not cause any harm to the ecosystem, and even to the world, more than they naturally could do, Nergigante hunts the Elder Dragons and devours them so that their remaining strength is not expelled to the outside. This rement to our role (as hunters) to defeat monsters (and elder dragons) to prevent them from causing a bigger harm, and "inherit" their power by crafting their equipment and using their power the correct way, much like Nergigante who devours them for nutrients to sustain him and continue hunting them.
The second is the human part: His ability; For a monster who fails to imitate sonic the hedgehog in appearence, unlike shadow who properly did (this is a joke for few), but still follows the way of the hedgehog, should anyone or anything try to harm it and break it's spikes, he can then heal itself by generating a new layer of spikes harder than the last. That IS his skill as a god. He doesn't bend fire, he doesn't roar and the sky opens, He doesn't store electric energy in it's horns, nothing like that. Just like us, humans in real life, our wounds and Nergigante's are naturally healed as time progresses alone, the only difference being that Nergi's regeneration is significantly faster than that of a human, but outside of that, he represents our "Natural ability" of recovery.
Nergigante's role in the life of monster hunter is pratically being a 'test' for us hunters, because if we can't kill Nergigante, who is not a dragon who bends an element, then this essentially proves that we are not even capable of killing a Dragon that does bend an element, like Teostra or Kushala. If we beat him, on the other hand, it proves the exact contrary and let us roam free to kill the dragons in his stead so he can feast later (if he survives, of course).
TLDR, Monster Hunter stories rarely have very memorable or deep fleshed out characters, because the story isn't really about the player and the characters they travel with in every game. The story's are usually about the monsters, their relationship with the world and the hunters, and how they've Impacted both. It's ultimately a story about the balance of nature. Rather then people.
I love how everyone keeps dismissing the cast as meh characters, when they're all an extension of this wider concept. Each of them representing different archetypes and ways to tackle this deeper theme.
The handler is the reckless desire to take dumb risks to fuel curiosity, Excitable A-Lister is the optimistic yearning for adventure, The Tracker is the diligent explorer, The Seeker is the desire to find answers to deeper questions, The Admiral is our sometimes arrogant desire to tackle anything that comes our way head on. It just goes on. And their interactions also reflect this, like the Handlers immediate friendship with the Tracker.
That bit with the sapphire star in xeno's tail stump is so fucking cool, I never realized.
I do always find it interesting how when It comes to criticizing Monster Hunter World's story a few people point out the fact that the characters don't even have names, but personally I have always felt like that's one of the least important criticisms when it comes to explaining why MHW's story is bad.
A character doesn't need a name to be interesting or compelling, in recent memory The Mandalorian is a great example, he does have a name but his name is not treated with importance of any kind, I've forgotten his name but I have not forgotten the character. There are many more characters who don't actually have a real name beyond a title yet are compelling, names are relative human constructs that help us see humanity in something better, but It is not required to help one see humanity.
I would like to point out that in the Monster Hunter series alone there are compelling characters who don't have names, MH Generations and MH4 has NPC characters without names who have compelling yet not complex lines of dialogue that are enjoyable to read, these characters sometimes go through mini character arcs and end up developing, Monster Hunter Rise does this with it's NPCs as well, Monster Hunter World however does not.
Not giving characters names is a writing convention in Japanese stories.
well, monster hunter human characters are pretty much never intersting and at most, funny to have a cutscene with (like our boulder punching rajang slayer general). the actual characters are, like present in the video, the monster and the world
Thanks for expanding on the story! This really helps me to process the experience. It's a shame the subpar characters and dialogue let down the other story elements, because the underlying themes were definitely worth digging into.
I personally was really pulled in by most of the stuff you mentioned. I didn't understand the Sapphire Star motif completely, but it wasn't lost on me when the other characters started addressing me by the name. Paired with the otherworldly nature of the Xeno'jiva fight, it really gave me a sense of ascension and personal responsibility at the end of World. The humans (and palicoes) have always been hand-waved as amazingly strong and resilient, but this was the first Monster Hunter I played that seemed to push the idea that the player character is something really special. In the past games your hunter was characterized as "the village hunter" and even after beating the big bad you mostly just upgrade to "village hero". World makes you feel like something more than human by the end, reminiscent of other, less grounded RPGs.
It's a weird fit for Monster Hunter until Iceborne turns it on its head as you've described. The cutscene before Shara Ishvalda still sold me on our hunter being on another level than other humans, and as a result the final fight lived up to a battle between gods. However the ending absolutely sent the message that "with great power comes great responsibility". I felt that no matter how powerful or divine either Shara or myself were, we are still part of a greater web of life. It was the most player character development and the most mature environmental theme that I've encountered in Monster Hunter.
If you notice with shara, when it does most of its big roars like when it first loses its rocks. It looks reminiscent of a budda with the wings acting as the arms or lotus petals of the budda, which is shown in its armor and weapons along with their names. Also what ever happened to the mhw theory about zora being escorted by nergi to kill xeno via the energy burst?
You really are an underrated creator. Keep up the great work!
I think something to consider is that the Jiivas might not actually be parasitic as you described them. Perhaps from our (the guild's) limited perspective, they could be, but there's something more important at play here. I'm sure you've all heard about how "Jiiva" means life, but in the context of Jainism which is the origin of that word, Jiva represents more than just something being alive. It also represents a spiritual existence that's required in order to be capable of transcending the cycle of death and rebirth... which is exactly what Xeno'jiiva is causing the other monsters to do. It's serving the role of guidance once again. The Sapphire Star, but not for humanity this time.
By far my favorite thing about Monster Hunter is the core idea that humans aren't the only ones at the top of the food chain. Since there are bigger threats to the environment than us, humanity is pushed into a protective role rather than a dominant one. That's something you don't really get in real life, since we very much are the world's worst enemy. I can't help but think we'd be playing a very different role in our lives if there was something bigger than us at the tip-top like the Elder Dragons...
Not to mention all the cave paintings or carvings, from those the lore can be deep and wrinkly with ever such juicy info that can maybe unlock the third hidden camp in the Guiding Lance, I believe that there is third camp.
The most intriguing cave carving is in rotten vail where the cake bird is riding the mossy pig. Good video.
I always love hearing analysis on things i myself failed to read deeply into. It really makes me appreciate things i was lukewarm on before.
This is such a good analysis. I also notice some themes like this, but you put it in words so understandable!
really great video you did there, thank you for that
Wonderful work man!
Very interesting video. Makes me appreciate the game even more. Thanks for creating it!
I not gonna pretend the story in these games are groundbreaking, but did I enjoy them? Oh god yes!!
A very in-depth look, didn't even pick up on a lot of the details you mentioned while playing myself.
For me the walk toward Ishvalda was more about me truly becoming a legendary hunter, MHW was my first MH game so the progress in the story really reflected my growth as a hunter and a lot more focus was put on my growth, my knowledge of the monsters and how well I was doing in fights against them, rather than my place in the world itself. Very glad you put stuff in perspective for me like this, great work!
Well done and well written! Games like this deserve a more critical view and credit for their higher level of sophistication. Keep it up!
Incredible video man, just incredible.
I still consider this one of my favorite videos on the entire website, have rewatched this maybe 5 times, what an excellent insight into MHW.
Wow this is such a good video I can’t believe I just now seen this and that it’s not in the millions
I love that the game explores ecological equilibrium and human impacts
All the video and the comments are opening my eyes again about this game and its world. Simply WOW. I really love Monster Hunter community. Thank you guys and thank you Tom once again!
Really good analysis of the story, I liked this take
Let's goooooooooooo! A new Tomkon upload!!
9:43 I would never fight Shara the same after this info. So fascinating yet creepy to think about it 😨
Having names does not make the story better. No MH isn't known for having great stories but, the lore and what is left to find or learn through hunting helps you understand the bigger world around you. MH mainline share a story line and though you aren't the same hunter though them all. Wold tied together the stories from 3u and 4u. The story and the maps of World are engaging, yes there are some silly characters that aren't that deep but it is by far the most engageding on the overall world.
I’d say the lack of names helps Worldborne. If all characters had names, they’d be looked at and derided as bland characters. With just the job titles, it really helps pull everyone together and strengthens the character of “The Commission.”
Extremely underrated video and creator. I remember reading that the developers wanted Iceborne to feel more 'fairytale'-ish. You can definitely feel what they were going for by listening to the main theme and the main story bosses' themes (especially Velkhana with the piano flourishes). Any fairytale needs a moral lesson by the end, and Iceborne definitely delivers.
On a side note: I'm sure it was a coincidence, but I liked that you timed The Handler showing up at 7:38 with the mention of the 'real threat'.
This. This video makes me so happy
Damn this was a really good video
Aight, I haven’t watch the vid yet, but as soon as I saw it I got real excited. I remember theorising about this a lot to myself and wondered if there was a video that explained it and did more research, but I always forgot to check. This might be completely different to what’s going to be said in the video, but my initial thought was that the themes of the game and the dlc were based on the ideas of Heaven and Earth. Mainly based on the fixation on stars in the base game (name of the main camp, ‘Saphire star’ stuff and all that). Theories for Iceborne representing Earth were mainly just coming from the final boss, and seismic activity and all that (idk not as much stuff, but still). Yeah okay cool. Time to watch the vid!
very nicely done video sir. thoughrely enjoyed it. although i think zenos tail looking similar to the star is just a coincidence.
Ohh man why did this make me tear up :')
I love how every Elder Dragon is massively powerful, with radiating auras that lesser beings would be destroyed by…
And the being that stops them, that is the Hunter of these horrible gods, is the Monster Hunter equivalent of a really, REALLY big wolf.
Not a deity, not a legendary hero, nothing like that.
When gods run amok, when titans rise and skies fall, the last line of defense isn’t a BIGGER or overall more destructive monster…
But a mid-weight brawler. Who punches above their own means in order to kill the wild gods, and then just flies away.
God is dead, Nergegante killed it, and then went to go pick his teeth with a Kirin.
Wonderful vid
I love your mhw videos please make more! ❤️
Nice conclusion, given cleared a story for many years, I never realize this message.
i love positive takes. too easy to be negative. your creative ability to weave a positive outlook like this is very nice.
Wow! Great Vid!
Fun fact: shara ishvalda isn’t actually looking at the player, it’s eyes are just convex, which makes it look like it’s watching the player, but it’s not
Coming into the game as a large Godzilla fan since I was 6, and having grown up and loved the MonsterVerse reboot, especially KotM, made me love the whole Nergigante balancing dynamic and idea a lot.
Generally just a sucker for Monster fights, seeing Nergi kill Shara was an awesome of an reward for making it, and also seeing it being called a balancer, really reminded me of Godzillas very same role in the MV, even with the same concept from KotM, where humans have to do their part too and made it really special to me since I had based my Hunter and her backstory on one of my favorite human characters from Godzilla and MV.
Well done!
I enjoy the story of world, its not to limiting and gives the missions you do a greater purpose
this is so true, a part of the reason why i still play world until now is also because how deep the story actually is, and to this day i still think that World is the best MH game capcom has ever produced. thanks for making our point in a video, although it's years overdue, but better late than never !! p.s. somehow this ended up in my recommended list when i did not even watch a single MH content for like months
Would love to see your thematic analysis on Safi'Jiva and Fatalis. The end of a cycle. The final act. Death and fear itself
The disovery via the Tail Cut is insane. Wonderful video.
Except it isn't accurate at all because that isn't the sapphire star, it has too many points and almost every tail looks like that in-game.
Damn I wish I could understand all the details the stories had from the get go like you do cause I'm jealous.
Actually, I think Nergigante couldn't kill Shara Ishvalda because of his rock armor. That's why he pretended to be dead so we take the rock armor off and weaken the elder dragon then Nergigante took the opportunity and killed its prey. it's actually much more satisfying when you think about it like this!
This lines up with what I already believed: Nergigante is the main protagonist of World and You Can't Change My Mind
Something else I've loved about World from the very beginning was that its approach to hunting monsters was motivated by ecological study, rather than humans just going out and mindlessly being badasses and killing shit to wear their skin. It actually mimics that IRL hunters make some of the best conservationists. From the outside, its easy to say that because they kill animals they don't care about them, but if a hunter wants to continue hunting, then they need to protect the populations and wellbeing of those very same animals. This means many hunters are often some of the best advocates for maintaining ecosystems. (Yes there are exceptions that are horrifyingly unethical assholes, but there always are in any group).
I feel like the story gets a lot of flack, but I think its also because its coming out in an era where we can expect excellent stories to be told in video games. But what World does that is incredibly respectable is that it sets up its rules for the world, and exists within those rules. For example it sets up the idea of a leyline system of bioenergy flow and then can go back and link much of what's happening to that same idea. It doesn't come from nowhere.
The characters are also simple but they all have motivations, flaws, development, and journeys. They aren't static and many of them learn lessons and grow as people. They don't need names to express that.
And even if the story was nonexistent completely, the world and environments are so stunning I would never get tired of running around them. The coral highlands and the rotten vale are so original in their beauty and execution. They're spaces I enjoy just EXISTING in.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Have a great goddamn day.
I kinda feel like Velkhana was trying to say "screw off, the situation will sort itself out like it has done every time before" and then we kill it because we thought it was the problem lmao.
Wow! Shara's eyes tracking the camera is crazy, I never noticed.
Really cool video, you should do one on safi too
I personally wasn’t dissatisfied with Nergigante stealing the limelight. Regardless if he finished them or not, we alone took down Shara. And now a squad of some of the best hunters are present along with us. If anything Nergigante saved Shara, would’ve probably ended up being a slower death if it was from a group of hunters.
What I liked about the ending, was that it showcased the natural cycle before us. The circle of life, nature, and how fragile ecosystems can be.
In fact, a perfect mix between the endearing and interesting characters of Sunbreak and the much more immersive universe of World/Iceborne would be a masterpiece.I absolutely love these brilliant and memorable concepts :The Elder crossing, the place of Man/hunters within nature, the ecological role of the Nergigante in regulating the population of ED, the quotes from Seeker (best character), the cycle of life and death of nature, the lore related to Bioenergy. These are absolutely brilliant and memorable concepts.
Fucken loved this bro. Thank you
wake up babe new Tomkon video
Seeing the world of monster hunter and just how alive it feels is honestly something I think EVERY gamer should experience, even if its only briefly.
This was well explained.
I am curious how you'd explain Safi'Jiiva... 😎
Correction on one part is the other fleets had been in the new world for decades, the fifth fleet was merely the newest one.
It's deeper and has some connections to older MH titles.thats was my initial thoughts. This video helps with it
Another point is that Shara comes back to life. Similar to how the hunter can’t ever die in game. And you can re-hunt the same elder dragons over and over. If previous monsters mocked the player, shara mocks the game. Shara even takes advantage of the cutscene almost.
It's neat to me how the introduction of the safi'jiiva essentially turns the whole plot of the base game to be in more line with the point of iceborne where it shows that xeno'jiiva is also a part of the cycle albeit a very destructive one since it isn't the first time one was born
There's a line said by the commander after the ending that says someday, something like the nergigante will hunt us down in order to guard the ecosystem and we will lose to it
small fyi : if you remember a sword and shield called 'grand barong'. Its a basic bone sns, nothing too crazy, but the naming here, 'barong' refers to mythical being in balinese hinduism in which the picture were shown in the video, around 9:26
I play monster hunter for the gameplay and the story, and what I take from it is that there are some things we’re just not meant to know, and it’s better that way because if knowledge falls into the wrong hands or we metal with affairs we don’t fully understand it can be catastrophic
The no names thing is a classic trope that works very well.
If you know the lore behind MH, but it is incredibly important that the Guild exists and hunts the monster that they are involved with. As the Guild was reformed into protecting the people and the monsters alike, hunting those that would stand as an imbalance or a threat to the world or the ecosystem. The Guild exists for a good reason and their actions now are to make sure they don’t repeat what the humans did back during the Great Dragon War and the Ancient Civilization. Now I know they haven’t really been brought up in the games but it’s clear that it happened and should be brought up.
I hope this doesn't sound like a repeating question the others have asked but are you going to do the schenning version of the true look of it and what was the reason of the Elder Dragon of chaos was doing in a nesting area of previous previous versions of the sapphire star
I take the shara twist in the end cutscene was nergi was playing dead after realizing you could break it rock armor so it hid until the right time to confirm the kill
I get that the story isnt that inyeresting in mh games but imo world one was awesome and I cant help but want a world 2 cuz of that. I know Capcom will never miss when it comes to gameplay so I just want to see more of the Research Commission's journey in the new world
One of the things I love about monster hunters as a series is it's setting. This isn't our world, a normal world that was /suddenly/ invaded by large world ending monsters. This is a world where such monsters are BORN. this is where they evolved. The entire world is built around the existence of these monsters and what they do. It was, for lack of better words, built to handle such behemoths.
Much like in our own world, humans in monsterhunter don't always look at the monsters as a part of the world, but a problem in the way of their goals, ideals, or livelihoods. We as players have to consider this as we progress through World's story, especially when it comes to Elder dragons.
In our world, nature has a system to prevent stagnation in the short and longterm of life and evolution. Be it plagues, storms, disasters, or what ever else, change constantly drives our world. In MH, the Elder dragons are that system. Walking cataclysm, they can force entire ecosystems to change in the beat of a wing, but the key is they've been doing it for eons. The world adapts, it bounces back from an Elder Dragon. But humans aren't as flexible or far sighted. They see a burning lion and think "he gonna burn my house down, better merk him for parts" without considering the local plant life more then likely adapted to it's migration and has either evolved a resistance, or a dependence on it burning shit down.
I just love the setting so much quq
Of my hundreds hours, I actually did not know that there was a book about the tale of the five
You know that makes me wonder, what if they pushed this with ruiner nergigante than you were threat to be treated as unbalancing the eco system. And locked him him behind mr100 to says nergi was hunting the dangerous element, the hunter.
babe wake up new tomkon just dropped
MONSTER HUNTER WORLD/ICEBORNE actually one of the most well phase storyline in the series, while the plot it's not great, it does create a really interesting build up that pays off in the end by giving us an incredible spectacle.
I think the concept of the sapphire star may be a mythologised telling of a real tale, a Safi jiiva sapphire of the emperor would be visible from extremely far away, so a literal 'guiding sapphire blue star' glowing in the distance during a fight could have informed the early explorers of its presence