Valet Diving Needs To DIE! The Most Dangerous Trend in Scuba Diving
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Valet Diving Needs To DIE! The Most Dangerous Trend in Scuba Diving is diminished responsibility being disguised as luxury service. I'm mad for this one!
It's Mouthpiece Monday time again, people. This time, I'm taking aim at Valet Dive Services. 'All you have to do is dive' - NO! No. You have to be responsible and when your personal accountability is being stripped away in the name of customer service, that's where I have a problem!
Scuba Divers, there is nothing wrong with enjoying luxury customer service when you're relaxing on vacation! Of course not! But you have to draw the line when over zealous Dive Masters want to cross over into doing tasks for you that you really should be doing yourself.
Let me know in the comments below if you agree with me or not!
Thanks for watching!
D.S.D.O,
James
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Valet Diving Needs To DIE! The Most Dangerous Trend in Scuba Diving
Though we are based in Florida, Hawaii, California, and Michigan have 100 ft and 300 ft ocean and lake underwater coral reef, shipwreck, cave diving, freediving, scuba diving, and rebreather trips. To learn full face mask, beginner scuba diver, advanced scuba diver, tech scuba diver, cave diver you can reach out to a professional scuba diver. Everyone should get scuba diving insurance with Divers Alert Network.
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we wanted to shore dive at the hotel beach. The tank of my GF leaked heavily and a DM came and brought us a another nitrox tank. I wanted to analyse it myself. He didnt understand why, because all tanks are analysed when filled. He was really mad, that i insisted on doing it myself. After i analysed the tank i found out it had 43% instead of the 32% written on it. This was the first and the last time, i had anything to do with a DM doing stuff for us.
Wow that's mind blowing. Not only was it over TEN PERCENT off it was beyond recreational limits. How could a certified DM not know that one of the major teaching points of the course is that every diver is responsible for their own analysis??? Your gf could have died if you went down past ~75 feet with that right? In Jupiter, that's the *average* depth of our dives,
@@Cleanser23 yes, this could have been deadly. The Problem is, that most divers dont want to check their nitrox or assemble their gear. Valet diving is dangerous, but some people like it, because they dont know it better
Jesus fucking christ. 1 or 2% is kind of understandable, but 11% out? What the actual fuck? That's not just sloppy, that's downright dangerous.
Filling 42% when wanting to fill 32% sounds very unlikely. Wrong analysis sounds way more likely
@@MartijnKlijnstra could be. but all other bottles had 28-34. I tested it 3 times, because i couldnt beleave it
"Subcontracting out your safety" - love it. Sums up my thoughts entirely. Been diving since 1990 and (after long hiatus...kids, you know) now finishing up my DM candidacy. Never trusted valet service on a dive boat no matter how lazy I felt on holiday! "Maybe valet diving is totally fine; maybe it's just me..." It's not just you, James. Spoil me with fresh towels, maybe a hot flannel post-dive and bring me some freshly cut pineapple. Cart my gear on and off the boat, sure. But I agree that it's frankly irresponsible for a dive operation to assume that level of culpability for their customers. Well said!
I agree with you 100%! All of the hard physical stuff (carrying tanks, carrying weights to you, etc) it’s great if DM’s/instructors do. But divers need to “set up” themselves. DM’s/instructors can and should double check it, just bcuz sometimes noobs set it up wrong, but divers should initially set it up themselves. If they don’t know how, it indicates an unfamiliarity with their equipment- which is something they need to familiarize themselves with before getting in the water.
As a skydiver I noticed that after I learned to pack and owned my own gear, that my canopy didn't open the way I wanted it too all the time if I paid a packer.
So as a scuba diver I'll let someone carry my tanks, but I'll set up the gear
We see valet diving most places we dive. I love the "leave your gear, we'll rinse it, hang it, and have it back on the boat tomorrow" part. Even have labels on all our gear to avoid it getting lost. I trust the shop to do daily rinses adequately because I know when I get home I'll have it all in my own fresh water bathtub for multiple thorough rinses. That's just part of our routine for dive trips. But setting it up and doing a pre-dive check is different. When it's my safety in question, I want to be responsible for it. Delighted to have a second pair of eyes on it, but it's my responsibility because I'm the one who's going to have to deal with the consequences of any mistake.
You are spot on with that. I did one trip years ago. The crew didn’t like me taking my gear apart and putting it back together properly. Next step was me telling them bring it to the boat but don’t put it together. The next step was me taking it back to my room with me because I didn’t want their grubby hands touching my gear
so whats the name of the dive resort that let's you do rails in the v berth? (for research purposes of course)
Usually agree with you on most things but I don't agree 100% on this. I use a valet shop in Cozumel because I stay in cheap hotels w/o storage or rinse tanks. I always double check the setup and adjust to my liking as well as perform pre dive checks. Trust but verify. It is the divers responsibility to make sure everything is set up correctly.
100% agree. If you cant set your gear up, get back on a refresher course. Sure as shit no one else is setting my kit up.
I've dived with shops in Bali where they insisted on doing a lot for me including changing the tanks during dives, carrying tank to boat, tank off boat, disassemble gear. These were $35/tank outfits. The only person who insisted I set up and disassemble my gear every time was the instructor who certified me.
Agree 100% - but I am also a bit sceptical on having the DM check that the air is on, depends on how they do it. Recently the DM turned the air almost off for my buddy on a black water dive when he was checking just before we jumped in. No big problem for us, but very annoying.
Couldn’t agree more... I hate that boat-boys in Thailand always want to take over and interfere when I’m setting up and donning my gear.
And yes, I’ve also heard that before; “if I don’t do it for you, I get into trouble” … well, that’s tough mate, but unless you are going to provide for my family when I die, then back off, please.
Some boats I’ve been on were noisy, felt overcrowded and got a bit chaotic close to dive time. It was difficult enough to keep your head straight and concentrate as it is.
Of course, I do appreciate help, when I ask for it… otherwise, let me run my routine and stop touching my stuff.
I think there is, in practice, a distinction between vacation divers using hire gear and turning up for a dive with your own gear.
I’m in Australia but mainly dive Bali - where we own a villa. Staff employment is their priority (ie don’t use a machine to do a no if it can employ 5pp). So on a boat we often have 1 DM per 2-3pp, captain & boat crew. Generally it’s their dive plan cause it’s their dive sites - their navigation, their highlight reefs etc. So - yes it’s ‘lazy’ diving.
If your using your own gear - i agree it’s yours to set up, care for etc. Often sites are paid for by the dive operators - so their tends to be some ‘pre-existing’ planning -but an agreed dive plan and protocols should definitely be discussed and agreed upon.
Diving in your own backyard - totally different story and involvement in gear, planning etc.
But - i agree with your comments and think it’s a great discussion
I'm still a noob diver, just got done with my advanced course a few months ago and I totally agree with you. I always wanna set my own gear up to get more experience and have my own control over my gear, since I'm still a noob ofc I always have my dive master or dive buddy check me as well before the dive, which you should always do anyways. Setting the gear up myself gives me more confidence in my dive, I'd feel much more confident with gear I setup myself and tested before I go down
I believe that one can enjoy the convenience of Valet Diving and still retain ownership and not be complacent. The analogy I would use is work smarter, not harder. One can Manage tasks that are performed and also provide QA on them to ensure they are completed correctly. Some of the strongest safety measures and processes have more than one person involved.
Ownership of gear after initial setup includes;
1. I always analyze nitrox myself or look directly at the analyzer for reading as the staff does it. Honest mistakes can lead to wrong MOD's and increase the risk of Oxygen toxicity.
2. Inspecting BDC placement and configuration often making minor adjustments.
3. Always putting my regulator on and testing it myself. I always carry my Reg with me and it's never left with any Op or person even when valet.
4. Inspecting the configuration of all other gear as necessary.
5. Confirming the lead is in my pockets and that it is the correct amount.
Complacency.
Do I really need to keep fresh on moving my BDC and Lead from tank #1 to #2 between dives on a 2 tank trip? Or can I let the young, strong buck do it, and save my back the strain? As long as I'm performing the above safety checks and validating settings and configuration, am I not in some ways going the same routine but with less manual labor?
Have you ever inspected a student's dive gear configuration before a dive and found vulnerabilities that were then fixed before the dive started? How is Valet Diving any different than that for those that are serious divers?
Numerous successful safety protocols and processes often involved one person doing the initial configuration and the second performing QA on the settings to ensure that they are correct and safe. With the correct mindset, cant valet diving be convenient and safe?
Definitely, but it is fair to say watch for redundancy versus complacency.
I have seen both sides. But have lucked out with a valet style that aimed to be top notch. Assembling in view and asking for feedback/ requesting for adjustments. Not discipline for not setting up, etc.
But, James. You bring up valid points to keep in mind.
That one time I jumped from the boat with a closed valve was the last time I relied on valet diving...
Yes, I am sure... Very inexperienced, but still. We were on a resort during vacation and got somehow used to getting checked by a DC member who took care of everything (carrying rental equipment, giving us a helping hand while donning, etc.) rendering the buddy check routines shallower with every dive. That day, we were heading for a drift dive with a negative entry and I remember that I could breath maybe two times before running out of gas, so at some point the valve must have been open. Is all this an example for how it should not be done? Sure. Am I the only one to blame for my entry with a closed valve? Absolutely. Luckily, nothing serious happened as I could reach my valve quickly, but this incident taught me a lot and I radically changed my attitude and behaviour which is exactly why I was sharing it in the first place.
So you didn't take a breath or 2 before the dive and looked at your gauge. Well, burn your certification card and start all over again to learn diving.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the diver to check his gear and its functionality before going into the water. No matter what service you receive at the boat. So yeah, you basically ignored the basics of the first OW course lesson and try to blame valet diving, while there is really only one irresponsible person which you can see when looking into a mirror.
@@DiveMonster „you [...] try to blame valet diving“... if you just had bothered reading the thread, you would have seen that this is exactly what I am not doing. Quite the opposite. We got way too comfortable and our safety checks got shallower and shallower leading to a human error at our/my side. „Burn your certification card“ ... I am fine with having learnt from my mistake. By openly sharing it, I hope to support others in learning from it as well, but thank you for your encouraging response to that. ✌️
Always test breathe your reg, before getting in the water. That way you'll know if air turned off or not.
Absolutely! Already seeing people who always have it done for them and can’t do it themselves... or even grasp the ‘why’ of it all...
No one sets up or touches my valves but me. This has become much less of a discussion since I strictly started diving doubles. Even more so now that I've gone CCR
I'm a Tec diver. Valet diving is fine, just re-check what the guy has done, re-check the analyzer. What's the big deal? It's basically like a buddy checking your rig. Not sure what he's on about
This is particularly an issue with diving, where many of us dive only as a vacation maybe once a year and don't have our own equipment: I find having everyone do your equipment for you doesn't allow you to acquire the familiarity or practice with handling or checking the equipment. Obviously, it nurtures a mentality that nothing on the dive is your responsibility: if you get babied above the water, youre going to feel like a baby under the water and expect others to act for you or others in potentially dangerous situations.
I've been on dives where I wasn't able to touch my equipment until literally right before the dive; that doesnt seem right at all!
Apparently I am living a sheltered life. Virtually every boat I have been on has hauled the gear and effectively set it up ready to go. I did not know this was called "Valet" service. I would then proceed with my checks to my satisfaction and off we go. James of course makes the point well, we are ultimately all responsible for our own safety when we dive and otherwise.
Agreed! I have my own gear, I assemble it myself, check it with my buddy. It's even not a tragedy to carry it to the boat (is healthy to do some extra exercise :) ). Maybe because my buddy (also my son) and me are used to do our own dives (without guidance), but I would feel very uncomfortable to allow someone else to mess with my gear.
I just got certified. I WANT to set my own stuff up. I didn't pay for the classes and gear for someone else to do it, it was part of the expierence for me. Just help me out if i need it.
Same same. I totally agree.
I agree, James. I like to carry my own stuff and set up my own gear for both of the reasons that you mentioned. Can't be too familiar with your own rig. But, I think that some dive operations go to the valet model not for the benefit of the diver/customer, but because it's easier for the staff. Specifically, the divemaster is sure that everyone's rig is good to go, heading off problems before they hit the water and that they don't have to hold up the group waiting for someone to get set up. Also, I get the impression that dive operations are often operating on a tighter schedule than the diver on the boat realizes. To the credit of most dive operations, the staff will generally put out a laid back vibe but they really have some continuous concerns about getting back to the dock on time so that the operation runs smoothly. Some operations will lay off the valet routine if you express a preference, with others it is clearly a policy that they feel helps them run more efficiently. I am glad you aired this topic out.
Holy smoke. I would freak out if someone, DM or not, manipulates my dive gear... So I am absolutely with you.
I had one grab my inflator in the water and start letting air out while at a safety stop. I was neutral just hanging out. He decided of his own accord that the air in my wing was unbalanced. I gave him the business when we got back on the boat. He acted like he was punishing me by having me change my own gear over after that. I wouldn’t have trusted him to carry my fins much less assemble my gear.
Hate Valet diving for the same reason as you.
Owning, operating, cleaning and caring for my gear is part of the sport for me!
Had never heard about it before, nut i would hate it. As you said, feel free to double check me before i jump in as a good service and care. But i want to set up my own equipment. Only service i expect on a trip is a clear briefing, to make sure i have a dive buddy im comfortable with, and to show me where my tank and weights are.
Yep... I loved having some carry my gear to the boat, take it form me after the dives, rinse it out, etc. But I always insist on setting up my own gear. For all the reasons you mentioned...
Great segment James! I do a lot of traveling and I have been on a few boats where the crew felt they had to do everything for me. I have always been quick to tell them thatIw as fine doing my own setups. The crew were taken aback most of the time. I like the parachute analogy you used, since that is the way I look at it myself.
I totally agree with James. But I have to say that I usually dive in the asia regions specifcally Malledives, I was in Palau ones but there this Problem does not exist, at least for us Europeans. A different storry for the Chineese people. I was shocked when you said that people let others analyse theire Nitrox? You have to put the correct numbers in your computer right? Or do those people think that these are guesses? I mean this is serious stuff? I ones mesiured an O2 of 34%. The dive shop said that they usually give 32% into theire botteles, you had to choose your bottele in the evenings write your numbers down and place the bottel to your gear which then apeared on the boat next morning. When I arrived at the boad the divemaster asked me, in front of everybody to analyse the bottel again and wonders over wonders it was 32%, They took this that serious that they explained the whole procedure of analysing to the whole boat again!
Long story short, there are things like analysing and bodychecking, and assmbling your gear which you have to do by your own.
I also have to say that I do want to maintain my gear by my own, meaning freshwater clieaning and stuff like this! It's part of the diving experience standing around all the other divers and cleaning your gear and talk about what you have seen on the dives and what you might have missed!
Ralph, there are very good reasons to analyse again. If you just filled up your tank, the existing and new gas may not have truly mixed or the tanks (bottles) might have mixed overnight. Or someone might have added something else on top accidentally. It is a good habit to analyse it before you put on your regulators.
i dived once with vallet and thought it was weird that they set up my gear for me. I am going to check everything again and set up my gear the way i want. I am going to check the regulator myself thank you.
US Army 10th SFG former combat diver. Where do I sign up for this? I dove using a rebreather and tons of gear. That Shat gets extremely heavy and cumbersome. As long as I am allowed to perform my own pre-checks and checks prior to getting to the dive location, hell I am all for it. I have never heard of this before, primarily dive in Mexico, I have heard of a program called "discover scuba" which allows a person that has no knowledge of what a SCUBA tank even looks like to SCUBA dive after some pre courses, then dive one on one with a dive master no more then 30 feet. I have no problem with this type of diving as long as the diver is permitted to precheck and is properly certified with a PADI type organization, think about disabled folks. I know many combat buddies who have to obtain assistance due to combat injuries , I think its not all bad.
This is a great topic. From my experience in the Caribbean, Iv'e met loads of "divers" who STRUGGLE with gear set up, but they still wanna dive. And you have the other crowd, that just expect to have this service. Rarely you see divers wanting to set up own gear. I agree with you 100%
Can’t agree more. Your gear is your lifeline. Every diver is responsible for themselves and each other. Nobody touches my gear but myself and my dive buddy (my wife). My daughter dives and I make her set up her gear because it teaches responsibility. This kind of mentality is why Everest has become so deadly, you can’t subcontract you own skill and responsibility.
I was on a dive with my buddy with follow the knuckle head divemaster around the reef. At the end of the dive this guy was lost. We noticed him scrambling for something, we asked what is wrong. He motioned he can not find the the way back to the boat. We as pointed up, and he felt silly. Nice we we lost in his head
Wow can,t believe how many comments. Good to see everyone agrees to setup there own gear. I have jumped in twice with a valet dive center and my tank fell out of the straps. They did not get tank strap wet before setting up. I never will let anyone set my gear up. I just take my reg and other items to my room every day after diving. I have had to tell them not to touch my gear. Other wise maybe they will let me set there gear up. They are in way to much of a rush to set up a boat full people. EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW HOW TO SET THERE OWN GEAR UP.
I dived at Komandoo in in 2018 and 2019. You pack your own kit the night before and they take it to the boat in the morning. If you forget something you have to do the walk of shame. You set your own kit up and test your own nitrox. The Pro Divers dive masters are superb. Much better than most I have had in the red sea. Wouldn't want to dive anywhere else to be honest.
Carrying gear, 100%, in fact that’s good for safety as over exerting can predispose you to DCS. But no chance is anyone else setting up my kit, checking my gas and DEFINITELY not doing pre-dive checks! That’s just insane!
Right on. Dont touch my stuff.
NO - I don't do much Tech diving anymore, but it makes me see red when some well meaning crew try & set up my gear or check my tank valve(s) in the name of 'service'. It means I go back to the beginning of my checks.
My kit, my responsibility., my life.
I Like the part where they take it apart clean and store it. i would definitely setup my stuff and change tanks. the one place I have done it in the keys it was a better job cleaning and died then I would do
Watching the video and reading the comments reminded me of a saying in the army; "one man, one kit". If I'm the one doing the dive, the ultimate responsibility is on me to ensure that it's set up and working correctly and I will not take someone's word for it.
Some organisation advertise as dive professionals, it's mainly about lifestyle.
As someone who learnt to dive in Indonesia and still dives here this is just how I learnt. Then I bought my own gear and didn't people touching my shiny new regs/BCD and realized quickly just how many procedures I had been missing out on and how unsafe this practice is. NEVER AGAIN!!
Hi James,
I m very happy to listen an padi instructor say the valet are non sens , i ´m french and i use to bring all my equipement !
I hate when the manager of school diving say: » you could check your equipement please, it’s here ! »
So thank you for your publication, in french we say: « coup de gueule ! » 😉
I have come across this but when they find you are a active British diver they normally leave your kit alone. My dive, my kit my responsibility.
I had this experience early on in Thailand when I had just got qualified. The boat crew would try to do everything for you. I remember being a bit annoyed at the time as i really wanted the practice on setting my gear up and cementing what i had learnt on my OW course. So, I made sure i did it myself when I could without offending the crew. I've also had Dive masters check me and move my second regulator (ie from a clip/strap to a pocket in the BCD), even though I was taught a different way. It may have been wrong, but still better to explain the issue and not just move it on behalf of a diver.
Simply put; it’s always better to teach someone to fish rather than give someone a fish
I disagree! I dive now for 46 years. I am gladly using all service I can get. I talk about single tank on a BC with one regulator (not about more complex gear such as doubles, side mount, and rebreathers!). I talk about liveaboard diving. On the first day I setup my gear myself in order to demonstrate the staff how I want it. And this is by far not so “complicated”: where should the tank be fixed to the BC, regulator up or down, and maybe how to fix the inflator, that’s it. From then on I let them do it. On many ships the gear stays put together the whole time just the regulator is taken off for refilling the tank and measuring the nitrox. And if somebody washes my wetsuit and my booties, hangs them up for drying, and I find my stuff at my place just before the next dive I don’t mind either. While I put on my suit I have an eye on what they do. I let them measure my nitrox while I watch and then sign the paper. Of course I breath both regulators, the inflator, check gas pressure and make sure the tank is fully open. That takes less than a minute. On liveaboards I am diving the crew sets up in one season more tanks than most divers during their lifetime! They are not just some inexperienced stupids.
Of course, I see the points for divers who cannot put their gear together themselves or don’t know how the do a predive check etc. Fortunately on boats I dive I don’t come across such people. On my last trip “my” group consisted of five divers (three being instructors) with accumulated at least 26000 dives: all used the provided service to the fullest.
In comparison to “normal” life: if I bring my car to the service I also have to trust the guys who do it, if I bring a regulator to service I have to trust them also (my only two cases of malfunctioning regulators I saw was during the first dive after service!). At times before computers no boss would have typed reports him/herself if they had the service of a secretary!
My wife never dived without a valet (me).
Hahahahaha
Yeah, I've had a buddy (who apparently didn't know right from left) close her tank then open it a quarter turn because the boat crew had already opened it. I noticed her becoming stressed at 25m and had to share gas till I figured out what was wrong. Should she k OW that left is open, yes. Should we have done a buddy check, yes. But you know how it goes on the 3 dives a day boats in SE Asia. 5 mins to the dive site and can't get that damn wetsuit on. It was an eye opener for me. Not only to check your gear, but also to advise everyone to stop the "quarter turn back" habit. It's not necessary anymore and can be dangerous.
Genuinely the reason I dislike diving aquariums.
I certainly understand why they must use and set up their own equipment.. my equipment probably has microbes for 4 different continents hidden in its deep crevices. Not appropriate for an aquarium. Still, nothing worse than having other people handle my life support equipment..
If any crew wants to watch I'll let them but that's about it... other than me on the boat asking them to unhook the bungee from the valves (yes that happens to divers with a bit experience as well 🤫)
If they want to check if the valve is open I'll ask them them to tell me when they do this so I can check it afterwards. This way they are happy they can comply with their procedures and I'm happy because I was the last one touching the valve.
Maybe I should be glad that my tutor is very strict on handling my own equipment and
also make sure that i am able to help my buddy cuz “it is the way to impress girl”
Totally agree on this. I'm an old school diver and nobody can touch my gear
I often dive in SE Asia for the past 2 decades and it's been very common to have your gear all setup. I ALWAYS however double check to make sure everything is where it should be and there are no leaks (often the tanks have leaky o rings in these old resorts) before diving. There were three separate instances where i needed to have the tank replaced during my last trip last month. I see way too many divers mostly from mainland China who have no idea how to even setup their own gear because these are the only type of dives they've done. Usually, they are the same people who can't keep neutral buoyancy during the dive.
I remember in Belize they offered to wash my gear after diving and then I discovered they broke the exhaust on my 2nd stage, After that that was the last time I allowed that.
Ya...being in canada when we do a refresher of divers from down south i have have had AOW divers say they have never put their gear together....
Hi! Totally to 100% agree!
I wouldn't trust anyone setting up my gear when my life depends on it. Even if they insist setting up my gear, I'd insist doing my own pre-dive checks and most likely setting it up myself again. My life, my responsibility.
No way in hell am I letting someone set my gear up or test my nitrox, only person I trust with any life support related equipment is me.
It's a good courtesy but any certified diver will check their setup twice, but I dont want to be pampered
I'll be honest and say that I love having my used cylinder whipped off me as soon as I get to the top of the ladder and I just adore having my fins put on for me. I also quite like the quick check that my air is turned on - a second pair of eyes is always welcome. Everything else - no thanks! Especially not testing my nitrox mix - what kind of numpty trusts someone else to check the very air you're going to breathe? Do you just take their word for it and set your computer on their say so? What if they're not properly trained and make a mistake so my computer is working with incorrect data? It's my life so it's my responsibility thanks.
I agree.
I’d never heard of valet diving until now. I can imagine the response I’d get from some of the UK dive operators if I suggested they adopt it 😂 100% agree with this though it sounds like it’s more aimed at the holiday only diver. Anyone even half serious about scuba would remove said dive masters fingers if they caught them messing with their kit 😡😡
Yeah, some people are quite protective of their gear and will yell at anyone putting their hands on it.
@@LA-vw7hd yeah, like me!
Or me, or any of my mates...
As a DM I respect that and agree I as well don’t like when people touch my gear, but please don’t yell at the guy that’s double checking your air is on...
#1 I’m just doing a double
Check to make sure you’ll be able to breath
#2 it’s our tanks not your gear lol
But I can’t tell you how many times I go to turn a tank valve to double check and the person turns away from me or says “don’t touch me”. I then politely apologize and inform them I’m just double checking “air is on” but they still get so angry. Though In my experience they are the same people that slip during their giant stride after rejecting me help to the swim platform too.
DCS/DCI can be brought on, after the diver has surfaced even in a controlled way, by any exercise. Examples of this "exercise" might be carrying the divers equipment after the dive. Having this carried by a valet is surely thus a good safety thing as is using a wheeled cart.
As far as a diver having the kit assembled for the diver by another is a greater liability than a lazy, rusty, poorly trained vacation diver assembling their own kit. In any event, before the diver enters the water from the resort dive boat, everything should be re-checked by a competent dive master without that divemaster "sowing The seen of doubt" into the minds of experienced divers.
Ha ha...A DM that can afford a daytime coke habit must be robbing ATM's at night :)
No way anyone other than myself sets up my gear, because if not done correctly, it's my life at risk. From day one of SCUBA training I set up my own gear, initially under close supervision of dive instructor, who was pure awesome, and took me from almost drowning doing drills in a pool, to 40m certified and fully confident, scoring 100% on all tests in just a few weeks. There are some innately suited instructors out there. Also, not even sure I want my wetsuit washed for me.
Hello James, Sadly I have not been able to dive for a while, and now as an amputee (Below the right knee) am struggling to find suitable equipment that doesn't cost a fortune. Which brings me to your video, with the amount of cash I laid out for all my gear ( even more so for being a "fatty",... former rugby player also) I used to enjoy going over my set-up, I would have thought most if not all divers, even if their gear was second hand would have enough pride of ownership to set-up their equipment, I mean your life is literally relying on it being done correctly!
PS. I'd love to tell you that I lost my leg in a vicious knife fight defending a young maiden's honour, or "Man, you should have seen the Shark/Tiger/Bear that took me down" followed by a harrowing story but, I hyper extended both my knees playing rugby and got put to work pressing buttons for the next almost 30 yrs and being an idiot thinking it couldn't happen to me, I found out I have type 2 Diabetes, too late to save my right leg and I'm now working hard to stay healthy and keep the rest my appendages!
"Drowned in a bucket of it's own blood" LOL Never heard that one before...Awesome. Totally agree with you. Luckily, never experienced Valet Diving but wouldn't be interested in it if I did. Half the fun of diving is setting up the gear just the way you like it. Thanks, James.
How many times have you seen divers, usually on boat dive, jumping in the water, with their tank band rigged within half an inch of the tank shoulder. Thats because the tank has been fitted by a member of the crew, who can’t be bothered to take the tank out of its holder, to fit it correctly to the bcd. God knows what would happen if a short staffed crew had to change 12 or 15 tanks and regs. Also interesting to see who is liable in the event of kit failure. The diver, for not checking, or the dive centre for messing up the process.
The gear cleaning sounds nice...
My safety is my responsibility. They can haul my tanks but I'll set my gear up
Lazy practices like these are creating dangerous sloppy divers.
Great points and agreed, but the salient points could have been covered in under 3 minutes (borderline thumbs down on this one for duration and ad nauseam, but generally like your channel content).
I had no idea about this. I thought it was just an industry buzz word for good customer service. Nope, valet diving is not for me.
Wow didn't know that that Valet diving was a thing.... So lame
Vacation dives go from 35-50'. You run out of air long before you would go into deco. as long as my air is 21% or better, IDC. Set it up. Carry my stuff. Enjoy your tip. Ignore this man with the funny accent^^^ I can see my pressure gauge.
Well said, I completely agree with you.
A subject close to my heart and one that I enjoyed discussing with James. Having working experience as a dive instructor in the Caribbean and SE-Asia I'm all too familiar with 'valet diving'.
Those that have dived or worked with me know that I'm all about providing excellent customer service. Therefore in principle I'm all for things that improve the guest experience, including aspects of 'valet diving'.
However in practice I've seen it create dangerous situations, and especially create the wrong mind-set. By doing more things for the diver, it creates a slippery slope where the diver sheds more and more responsibilities and care for their own safety, as well as losing skills. The dive pro's become ever more a crutch to replace subpar competency by assembling gear, and nannying divers underwater.
This leads to some real-life examples such as:
> "I ran out of air because you gave me an empty tank!". Might happen, not great by the boat crew, but a not uncommon slip-up that you as diver need to catch in your pre-dive check.
> "I ran out of air because you didn't ask me to check my SPG!" We do not want to nanny certified divers, we brief to give us the half-tank sign, but you need to check your SPG.
Some comments here mention 'I know how to set up my gear, I enjoy somebody else to do it''. I understand that sentiment, but unfortunately in my experience that makes you a minority as most would actually not know how to set up their gear. And even then, do also do you have the discipline to do your own pre-dive check, and dive plan with your buddy? In my experience once you start taking tasks and responsibilities away, others will follow.
So before I sound like a grumpy old instructor, what aspects of valet do I think are ok? Well unsurprisingly it is pretty much the same as James summarizes it.
I'm more than happy to carry bags, lift tanks, put a new full tank at your station in the boat, give a hand with tightening your fins straps, hold open your BCD shoulder strap so you can slide in easily. If you have trouble setting up your equipment I'd gladly give you pointers and together we run through it.
But I want you to be the best and safest diver out there, and that doesn't work when I take away your skills and responsibilities!
You describe the pros and cons perfectly. I like that you also mention the “Nanny” syndrome, where divers expect you to even prompt them to check their SPG. I got used to that prompt too, and worried less about just checking it myself. “.... wrong mind-set ... where the diver sheds more and more responsibilities and care for their own safety ....” Could not be said any better then that.
"Fast spreading throughout Southeast Asia"....
NO, don't touch my phucking gear!
Most Tourist Divers that goto SE Asia, are wealthy and want to be spoiled.
@@shuntao3475 I get it.
@@shuntao3475 I'm a tourist diver that goes to SE Asia but I'm far from wealthy hahahaha. If I was wealthy I'd be going to the Red Sea or Maldives or Micronesia, not Thailand and Philippines
Is this really a thing? Yeah I'm not going to trust anyone else with analyzing my gas mix and setting up my gear.
Unfortunately yes. Especially in Asia. But not for nitrox analysing..
It is in the Caribbean. After 3 years of working as a guide and instructor, I see people are more likely expect Nitrox to be analyzed before they show up and just trust a number on a sticker
Had this in Philippines and Indonesia but only the once at any resort I've stayed in. After I've told them I prefer to set up my gear the way I like it they have left it to me. Gas analysis is always done by me, nobody else, and the majority of places I've used are pretty strict about that.
@@searcaig I'm about to go for my Nitrox certification, and the PADI manual has it in bold text with their "caution" symbol: You the diver MUST personally verify the readout on the oxygen analyzer each time you get a tank filled.
I had no clue this was even a thing. I thought a DM grabbing me my weights was next level stuff when it happened.
I had no clue myself! I had to set up all my gear from training up till this day!
I have been on two boats this year where they wanted to setup my gear. I simply said no thank you but you are welcome to do a budy check.
lol you just made me giggle a little harder than I expected!! That was funny and yeh same thing here, like a dive master grabbing my spear gun for me as I get back in the boat was what I thought to be top notch service😂🤣
Nobody cares about me more than me. I’ll handle my own gear thanks. I’ll still tip the same, don’t worry.
Personally if I on a boat dive I have no issue with the helpers getting my tanks switched.... thats about it. Depends on how i feel.
On my last boat dive, I was very alarmed when the DM insisted on swapping to the second tank during our surface interval. He said, "you can go have a snack or drink. We worry about this". No way, not me!
Yes, finally! I've had many divers with over 50 dives, who had no clue how to set up their gear because of this nonsense service and some even complained, that they had do do their own gear :D
Yep, in Okinawa you see it all the time. Sunkissed, I’m sure you have seen it too at Maeda Point, people getting dragged around the reef by a local “instructor”. I enjoy seeing your pics on Oki divers Facebook page.
:O
I'm a newer diver, but I want to setup my own equipment. I like having someone double check and a private guide in the water.
James you make 100% sense on this.
I was out of the scene for a good ten years, so came back completely new, and I agree. I'd never let anyone set my gear up, but I always *always* get my buddy to do a sanity check for me and make sure I've done it right, and I do the same for them. My gear might not be the best in the world (ain't that the truth) but I know it and would never want anyone else setting it up and would never want a rental setup.
Yes, I second that. Even letting my buddy on my tank valve is a only happening after I made sure he knows what he is doing. Responsibility can not be shared.
100% agree. I've dived with divers who have spent all their diving lives with valet services - they almost didn't want to fin themselves and wanted us to drag them through the water
Being an autonomous diver is important, you should always be clear about your setup
Don't tell them that DPV's exist then.
Just got back from Curacao a couple weeks ago, and dove almost everyday through my resort at Sandals. They let us set up our own, but did come around and double check everything, which we appreciated, as my wife and I are relatively new divers. They did a great job and were very safe and professional.
We just returned from Cozumel. A husband and wife kept diving into others. My wife and I were holding hands and they swam between us. On the boat getting ready for 2nd dive, they announced to our group that they've done over 60 dives. Good for them.
As we were switching tanks, they asked our DM to do it because they've never done it before. After over 60 dives!🙄
Then they told DM their dive computer wasn't working. DM says they need a new battery. "OH, Can you change it for us? " (In the boat, on water ready for second dive!!!!)
James,I agree with your sentiments completely!
You are spot on with everything you've said here. Good service is what you've stated.
I had a similar thing happen to me in the Maldives a few years ago. They started to set my gear up until I asked them to stop. I always have my valve fully open because I know if I have a problem, it will only turn off, and I don't have to worry about which way to turn it in an emergency. I was kitted up and ready to dive, reg in, mask on etc and the same boat hand came along, put his hand over my shoulder and touched my valve. With that I took my kit off and made a point of checking it again. The dive guide then had a go at me for slowing up the entry. I pointed out that I was ready to go and his boat hand touched my kit. I'm a PADI MSDT Instructor and TDI Adv Trimix diver, I know what I'm doing.
I do hate it. Every diver needs to be responsible for their own gear...PERIOD. Lazy-LAZY-LAZY. OMGOSH, people actually go diving, but they forget how to set up their own gear???????????? Those people don’t need to be in the water.
Sounds terrible. Honestly, I don't want anyone mucking with my dive gear other than myself. If step is missed, it's my fault. For the exact same reason we don't let valet's park our cars, either. If you aren't willing to take responsibility for setting up your gear, you shouldn't be diving. I'd say "if you manager isn't happy, please send him my way and I'll happily tell him why."
As an older diver, (approaching 70) I appreciate having a DM help me put my kit on... But I do all the setting up and safety checks! I remember on one dive in the Maldives the valve on the cylinder was faulty and wouldn't turn on. One of the crew came along and hit it with a hammer, which got it to turn on. He was quite perplexed when I refused to dive with it and insisted on a replacement cylinder!! This is one good reason why I'll always do my own set ups and safety checks!!
I would have been so scared of diving with them and using any of their rental equipment after witnessing that! Scary and concerning!
Also, very cool that you are living your best life! :) I love seeing positive and inspirational representations of older adulthood. Keep exploring and making each year top the one before!
@@nyssettemarie thank you, I do my best to keep going. I'm recovering from cancer treatment just now, but already back to diving! 😀👌
that is amazing! glad to know you are recovering and if you are diving again that is a great sign! I am in my 30s and have faced medical issues as well (spinal fusion and cervical as well due to a neck fracture years later). I am on my 6th dive as of today haha got my certification last weekend. Life does go on if you set your mind and body up for success! You should vlog or write about your story! I can imagine how it could give hope to those who catastrophize illness and lost hope@@ianmycroft6979
I am a person with trust issues to start with so I am with you. Great topic!!!
Can't really understand how people trust other people to prepare their equipment... One time during the pool training for my P1 course (equivalent to OW) another guy mounted my BCD/tank/regulator because he thought that it was his equipment, "ok no problem mate!" but I still didn't feel comfortable at 100% knowing that somebody else "touched" my stuff, and it was in a pool!
It might make it easier for the boat instead of having...... throw around the bottles and weight.
Its called cruise ship day.
I can set it up for you faster than watching you do it.
There are way too many people with more money than brains out there.
Valley diving undermines the buddy system.
There is 2 persons who touch my gear.
Myself and service technician in service center.
And my dog sniffing it occasionally
This is all part of the Dumbing Down Diving trend we've seen over the past X years. Make it easier to get certified, easier to get in the water, easier to sell boat trips. I get that operators need to set themselves apart to attract business, but yeah, it's dangerous and needs to stop.
Carry your own gear and dont even touch mine