The good thing is the reference sheets which tells you who needs to be where. Groups should feel comfortable pausing and discussing things for the first couple of plays. Also feel free to insert adjustments where needed to make it feel good to your group. But yea...it's a HUGE game. But very rewarding if you love the subject. Rule #1: The person who read all the rules and knows the game best MUST play Captain.
I'm a WW2 sub fan, and I love this game. I've managed to play it about a dozen times with different groups. The cheering when we sink something, the tension when we (and the crew on the app) are whispering because we are trying to evade a destroyer - priceless. Thanks for reviewing it, and giving it some exposure.
This is probably not the right place to put this but here goes. I think I told about the book reviews that John Batchelor at then last hour if his show 12:00am to 1:00am. Anyway last nights review was The Battle for Hell's Island: How a Small Band of Carrier Dive-Bombers Helped Save GuadalcanalStephen L. Moore (Author). His reviews are great because he talks with the author's and gives a good idea of what is in the the book. Just thought you might want to check it out. Its one I am now interested in.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer I listen on my way back to NY every night and his reviews are great. About 99.9 percent of the time they are Historical Military Histories. One time he did a review on the History of Paper. Dull as dish water right? Actually I found it interesting. It covered the history from the Persia to China.
In my opinion only, the role of each player is really no harder to learn than an other medium weight game. BUT, the handing out of roles should take into account each player's natural strengths. For instance, you don't want to give the Navigator's role to someone who doesn't know east from west, or what "180 degrees" means. And you don't want to give the Captain's role to someone with a meek personality, etc. So what I'm saying, is that if the role somewhat matches the player, then again, the task of learning each role compares equally to the effort of learning any other midweight game. It's the Captain who has it the hardest, as they need the capacity to be aware of what the other three roles require, and then be able to integrate all the roles into a common objective. Again, if you assign the Captain's role to someone who's a good fit for it, then that's half the learning curve right there! Essentially, it all depends on the group. This game will come naturally and quickly to some groups, while others will never want to see it again as long as they live. And don't forget the solo player! They have to learn everything (which really isn't that bad).
You're not kidding about that learning curve. I got roped into a game of this at a meetup last year and the guy teaching it just was not up to the task. Probably one of the only games I've ever played where I was just completely checked out and could not for the life of me figure out how to interact with it in a meaningful way or what even the most rudimentary strategy might have been. You're 100% right, if you're gonna play this, everyone needs to be on board and know how to play or you're (haha) dead in the water. (also side note the sub's a cool toy but I kind of was not a fan of the roof always blocking my view of what was inside) Great thoughts as always Cody!
Enjoyed your review. Having followed this on KS I think something changed when they got the app finalised. It seems to me the in game time frame changed and this meant the orders aspect changed and at first I felt it was kind of unplayable. They've fixed that pretty much with the new version but it still lacks something for me and I'm sure there's a betetr, more obvious way to manage the orders system, more in the spirit of how it first appeared to be in some of the playthrough videos I watched before release. For me, when I have new players I change the order system so that each crew recovers TWO orders when they rest rather than one, which certainly helps with the flow. The other complaint I have is that the engineer is a missed opportunity. They just don't have enough to do. I wish they'd given the engineer a guide with roughly how many men it took to fix each thing and then let them decide how many to put on it, so they now have a real man and time management decision to be made and it's down to the engineer how quickly things will get fixed. As it is they're told that it needs three people and their job is just to find three people. That said it's a terrific game. I've played it solo, which isn't quite as hard as you'd imagine, and with four (def the best variant I think, though 2 is also good). The moment we were all cheering when we sunk a ship only to suddenly fall silent as we heard the 'ping' of the destroyer above finding us will live long in my memory.
Its tough in solo play alot to remember. But I've played about 2 full missions in solo and really enjoyed it. Once you get through those rules it's a great game. Like you said definitely not for the casual player.
glad you covered this. I'm currently trying to comprehend the rules and how to play for my own local game group. It really is a bear to get right so far. I'm hoping someone on youtube has a great breakdown of how to play
I'm not a technophobe, but any game that requires an ap isn't anything I would purchase regardless of how cool it looks and how immersive (submersive?) it is. Thanks for the overview.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer IMHO a boardgame is called a boardgame because it is played on a board (table, whatever), not on a computer, console, smartwatch etc.
@@balfake3117 We play games because it's fun, not because they fit an etymology. I'm not a fan of apps in board games neither but once in a while, one of them makes sense. And this one totally does. This game is 95% played on the board. And only one player is in charge with the app. So yes, it's still a board game. With an app. The reasons I don't like apps with my board games: - I don't want them when its just about the hype and it could have been done differently. - I fear they won't be accessible forever (valid fear because they really won't no matter what the designers say) - I like to be disconnected from any screen once in a while. - If tomorrow it's the fall of our civilization or, more realistically, I don't have access to a screen for a while, I want to still be able to play my good old games. But, sometimes, one game is worth the hassle and if one game in my collection is subject to obsolescence but is still a hell of an experience in the meantime, then why not? Especially since some games are legacy now and are meant to be played once anyway. So, as long as i'm ok with the game not to be played an infinite amount of time, I can deal with its limited life span. But only once in a while, as an exception to a rule. And this also proves me that I'm not psycho-rigid.
Having bought and played Golem Arcana and Descent using the Road to Legend app; I can say I have had experience in app-assisted/enhanced games. This one looks very promising; as this is the first game I've seen where the board is actually a cutaway view model of a sub!!! I am intrigued by the game play, so I will look for some videos that show this in more detail: maybe you guys can do a playthrough one of these days? But of course, this video is mostly a review, and I agree that knowing what you're getting into before plunking a good deal of cash on a game is the best advice for these "steep learning curve" games. How thick is the manual for this game? Does it seem easy to read, and does it give examples for game play? Is the map sheet reusable, or do i have to photocopy it like the mech sheets in Battletech (Do you plot your course with a pencil or pen on the map itself)? And does the app have any "micro-transactions"? Stellar review as always, and the comedy is on point!!!
Thank you. I don't believe there are any micro-transactions with the app. The rulebook is about medium thickness - not hard to read per se. As far as the maps go, the game comes with several copies, but you can also download the template from their website.
Sorry for my english! Great game but we fixed some rules. Activation in battle sequences...and we give the house-rule to combine some orders when they are given at the same time: for example "heading to north with full speed" or "follow the ship" to the navigator (one order because it seems weird to do this in different orders). Also you need the rules v 1.2 where you can extend the orders. Then you can enjoy the enormous tense in the game. Greetings from germany.
Sounds like they should have made a basic game bare bones then graduated advanced rules. In the old war gaming day's they had basic or Tournament Rules. Before ASL they had Squad Leader which you read like 3 to 6 pages and played the 1st Scenario. I love ASL though to be good at it its a lifestyle and I like playing other games. If I had to do today I probably would not play as I have gotten older I like quick, fast uncomplicated games. Maybe they could make an expansion stripped down for quick easy play. It may help sales.
I'd like this, but no one to play with. Even if we did not have the Chinese bat flu causing problems I have some health issues that make it very hard for me to be away from home for more than a couple hours or so.... Also in 10 years when I take this game out to play will that app still work? Still, Good review, well worth watching.
So, that's one of the biggest questions of app-integrated games - will the app continue to be supported. The first app supported game I played (Golem Arcana) I really enjoyed. It has since ceased to be a thing, (thought there were really cool minis). But Mansions of Madness and XCOM were awesome. I was luke warm on LOTR Journey's to Middle-Earth. So I can understand your reticence. Still, I think it is a viable long-term proposition. I would be more weary of small, KS games that have no track record in either the cardboard or digital realm.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer thanks. Being kind of old soon to be 66 I'm concerned with kickstarters. So far I have avoided spending any money on Kickstarter. Though I've been close to a year waiting on GMT and their Rebel Fury p500 game. I did do preorders today for three games but two are due this month or next the other end of the year, from compass games Defending America and Devil Boats and through miniature markets DVG By Stealth and Sea. Though my laptop timed out n not sure order went through. Checking. I never thought I would love all these true solitaire games but I finally got a copy of B-17 Queen of the skies(pnp), and it's like I've gone a bit crazy over solo games. 4 plane, 3 sub games. Still buying two player games that I like and think I can play fairly both sides actually even got a few non "war/conflict" games like: Wingspan, pandemic reign of Cthulhu, Horrified n Forbidden Island. Sorry that I'm going on and on here Sometimes I don't know when to shut up maybe I should do like the Yakuza guy in the third predator movie and chop off a couple fingers in order to make me remind me to talk and text less hahaha. I'm really appreciate your reviews and reactions on games and keep up the great work 👍👍
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer The app is on Steam...it will exist long after we are all dead and gone. GOG still sells DOS video games. There is no "support" needed, unless its to add new content. I have actually modded the app to run independently/offline of Steam, so its mine forever.
@@MoragTong_ Yes, boardgamers tend to talk about this a lot - will the app continue to run... unless the app is based on server (and I don't know of any like that), it will continue to run into the future.
I've skimmed through some reviews of the game and it's hilarious that none of the reviewers could be bothered to look up the spelling of 'Boot', which is much more like boat...
All my life I've been a submarine lover bud I much prefer Captain sonar because U-Boot has too much rules plus ... something messy and I don't like the cardboard sub ... Doesn't work on me. On the other hand I think that board games or wargames in live but using applications for the fog of war are great ideas (mostly for naval battles) and should be much more developed in the futur! TY for the video - GG
The good thing is the reference sheets which tells you who needs to be where. Groups should feel comfortable pausing and discussing things for the first couple of plays. Also feel free to insert adjustments where needed to make it feel good to your group.
But yea...it's a HUGE game. But very rewarding if you love the subject.
Rule #1: The person who read all the rules and knows the game best MUST play Captain.
Thanks.
I'm a WW2 sub fan, and I love this game. I've managed to play it about a dozen times with different groups. The cheering when we sink something, the tension when we (and the crew on the app) are whispering because we are trying to evade a destroyer - priceless. Thanks for reviewing it, and giving it some exposure.
Glad you enjoyed it. Looking forward to trying it again.
Thanks
Thank you.
This is probably not the right place to put this but here goes. I think I told about the book reviews that John Batchelor at then last hour if his show 12:00am to 1:00am. Anyway last nights review was The Battle for Hell's Island: How a Small Band of Carrier Dive-Bombers Helped Save GuadalcanalStephen L. Moore (Author). His reviews are great because he talks with the author's and gives a good idea of what is in the the book. Just thought you might want to check it out. Its one I am now interested in.
That is interesting. Thanks.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer I listen on my way back to NY every night and his reviews are great. About 99.9 percent of the time they are Historical Military Histories. One time he did a review on the History of Paper. Dull as dish water right? Actually I found it interesting. It covered the history from the Persia to China.
Hi, did you ever get to play this game more?
No. Haven’t played it since. Still got it - hoping to break it out at some point.
In my opinion only, the role of each player is really no harder to learn than an other medium weight game. BUT, the handing out of roles should take into account each player's natural strengths. For instance, you don't want to give the Navigator's role to someone who doesn't know east from west, or what "180 degrees" means. And you don't want to give the Captain's role to someone with a meek personality, etc. So what I'm saying, is that if the role somewhat matches the player, then again, the task of learning each role compares equally to the effort of learning any other midweight game.
It's the Captain who has it the hardest, as they need the capacity to be aware of what the other three roles require, and then be able to integrate all the roles into a common objective. Again, if you assign the Captain's role to someone who's a good fit for it, then that's half the learning curve right there! Essentially, it all depends on the group. This game will come naturally and quickly to some groups, while others will never want to see it again as long as they live.
And don't forget the solo player! They have to learn everything (which really isn't that bad).
bgm 1961 I don’t know that I’d want to do this one solo. You make good points about assigning roles.
You're not kidding about that learning curve. I got roped into a game of this at a meetup last year and the guy teaching it just was not up to the task. Probably one of the only games I've ever played where I was just completely checked out and could not for the life of me figure out how to interact with it in a meaningful way or what even the most rudimentary strategy might have been. You're 100% right, if you're gonna play this, everyone needs to be on board and know how to play or you're (haha) dead in the water.
(also side note the sub's a cool toy but I kind of was not a fan of the roof always blocking my view of what was inside)
Great thoughts as always Cody!
Thank you, sir.
Enjoyed your review. Having followed this on KS I think something changed when they got the app finalised. It seems to me the in game time frame changed and this meant the orders aspect changed and at first I felt it was kind of unplayable. They've fixed that pretty much with the new version but it still lacks something for me and I'm sure there's a betetr, more obvious way to manage the orders system, more in the spirit of how it first appeared to be in some of the playthrough videos I watched before release. For me, when I have new players I change the order system so that each crew recovers TWO orders when they rest rather than one, which certainly helps with the flow.
The other complaint I have is that the engineer is a missed opportunity. They just don't have enough to do. I wish they'd given the engineer a guide with roughly how many men it took to fix each thing and then let them decide how many to put on it, so they now have a real man and time management decision to be made and it's down to the engineer how quickly things will get fixed. As it is they're told that it needs three people and their job is just to find three people.
That said it's a terrific game. I've played it solo, which isn't quite as hard as you'd imagine, and with four (def the best variant I think, though 2 is also good). The moment we were all cheering when we sunk a ship only to suddenly fall silent as we heard the 'ping' of the destroyer above finding us will live long in my memory.
Fantastic. Good points.
Its tough in solo play alot to remember. But I've played about 2 full missions in solo and really enjoyed it. Once you get through those rules it's a great game. Like you said definitely not for the casual player.
Indeed.
glad you covered this. I'm currently trying to comprehend the rules and how to play for my own local game group. It really is a bear to get right so far. I'm hoping someone on youtube has a great breakdown of how to play
I've seen a few while I was trying to learn it as well.
Great stuff Cody, thanks!
Thank you!
The captain looks a bit like Jürgen Prochnow from Das Boot.
Thanks? I still think of him as Duke Leto Atreides.
I'm not a technophobe, but any game that requires an ap isn't anything I would purchase regardless of how cool it looks and how immersive (submersive?) it is. Thanks for the overview.
That's too bad. There are some great games out there that use an app. I hope you get a chance to play one sometime. It may change your mind.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer IMHO a boardgame is called a boardgame because it is played on a board (table, whatever), not on a computer, console, smartwatch etc.
@@balfake3117 To each their own. I suppose this is a hybrid.
@@balfake3117 We play games because it's fun, not because they fit an etymology.
I'm not a fan of apps in board games neither but once in a while, one of them makes sense. And this one totally does.
This game is 95% played on the board. And only one player is in charge with the app. So yes, it's still a board game. With an app.
The reasons I don't like apps with my board games:
- I don't want them when its just about the hype and it could have been done differently.
- I fear they won't be accessible forever (valid fear because they really won't no matter what the designers say)
- I like to be disconnected from any screen once in a while.
- If tomorrow it's the fall of our civilization or, more realistically, I don't have access to a screen for a while, I want to still be able to play my good old games.
But, sometimes, one game is worth the hassle and if one game in my collection is subject to obsolescence but is still a hell of an experience in the meantime, then why not? Especially since some games are legacy now and are meant to be played once anyway.
So, as long as i'm ok with the game not to be played an infinite amount of time, I can deal with its limited life span.
But only once in a while, as an exception to a rule.
And this also proves me that I'm not psycho-rigid.
Shawn is hysterical
He is a gem.
I play a lot of PC submarine simulators - weird to see the same concept in board game form.
Indeed.
Having bought and played Golem Arcana and Descent using the Road to Legend app; I can say I have had experience in app-assisted/enhanced games. This one looks very promising; as this is the first game I've seen where the board is actually a cutaway view model of a sub!!! I am intrigued by the game play, so I will look for some videos that show this in more detail: maybe you guys can do a playthrough one of these days? But of course, this video is mostly a review, and I agree that knowing what you're getting into before plunking a good deal of cash on a game is the best advice for these "steep learning curve" games. How thick is the manual for this game? Does it seem easy to read, and does it give examples for game play? Is the map sheet reusable, or do i have to photocopy it like the mech sheets in Battletech (Do you plot your course with a pencil or pen on the map itself)? And does the app have any "micro-transactions"? Stellar review as always, and the comedy is on point!!!
Thank you. I don't believe there are any micro-transactions with the app. The rulebook is about medium thickness - not hard to read per se. As far as the maps go, the game comes with several copies, but you can also download the template from their website.
Hey, you made me smile.
sergeantrock1 That’s what I do.
Thought I'd let you know TDG now has a microbadge on BGG:
boardgamegeek.com/microbadge/50475
Show your support! 🖖
Ha! That's awesome! Thanks!
Best video ending ever!! ROFLMAO!! 😄😄
Robert Moffitt Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks.
Welcome back to Utah! We still have fry sauce...
Fantastic! I like Arctic Circle's, but don't care for it anywhere else.
Sorry for my english!
Great game but we fixed some rules. Activation in battle sequences...and we give the house-rule to combine some orders when they are given at the same time: for example "heading to north with full speed" or "follow the ship" to the navigator (one order because it seems weird to do this in different orders).
Also you need the rules v 1.2 where you can extend the orders.
Then you can enjoy the enormous tense in the game.
Greetings from germany.
No apologies necessary - your English is better than my German. Incidentally, I love your country. I studied in Berlin in 2005 and 2009.
I LOVE THAT BOARD
Pretty cool.
Captain, we're all going to die!
Very likely.
Some roles are better delivered by video games.... We love board games but theres a limit on what they can achieve...
Perhaps.
Sounds like they should have made a basic game bare bones then graduated advanced rules. In the old war gaming day's they had basic or Tournament Rules. Before ASL they had Squad Leader which you read like 3 to 6 pages and played the 1st Scenario. I love ASL though to be good at it its a lifestyle and I like playing other games. If I had to do today I probably would not play as I have gotten older I like quick, fast uncomplicated games. Maybe they could make an expansion stripped down for quick easy play. It may help sales.
Douglas Pearson That’s what it needs, easier scenario rules.
I'd like this, but no one to play with. Even if we did not have the Chinese bat flu causing problems I have some health issues that make it very hard for me to be away from home for more than a couple hours or so.... Also in 10 years when I take this game out to play will that app still work? Still, Good review, well worth watching.
So, that's one of the biggest questions of app-integrated games - will the app continue to be supported. The first app supported game I played (Golem Arcana) I really enjoyed. It has since ceased to be a thing, (thought there were really cool minis). But Mansions of Madness and XCOM were awesome. I was luke warm on LOTR Journey's to Middle-Earth. So I can understand your reticence. Still, I think it is a viable long-term proposition. I would be more weary of small, KS games that have no track record in either the cardboard or digital realm.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer thanks. Being kind of old soon to be 66 I'm concerned with kickstarters. So far I have avoided spending any money on Kickstarter. Though I've been close to a year waiting on GMT and their Rebel Fury p500 game. I did do preorders today for three games but two are due this month or next the other end of the year, from compass games Defending America and Devil Boats and through miniature markets DVG By Stealth and Sea. Though my laptop timed out n not sure order went through. Checking. I never thought I would love all these true solitaire games but I finally got a copy of B-17 Queen of the skies(pnp), and it's like I've gone a bit crazy over solo games. 4 plane, 3 sub games. Still buying two player games that I like and think I can play fairly both sides actually even got a few non "war/conflict" games like: Wingspan, pandemic reign of Cthulhu, Horrified n Forbidden Island. Sorry that I'm going on and on here Sometimes I don't know when to shut up maybe I should do like the Yakuza guy in the third predator movie and chop off a couple fingers in order to make me remind me to talk and text less hahaha.
I'm really appreciate your reviews and reactions on games and keep up the great work 👍👍
@@charleslatora5750 Thanks!
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer The app is on Steam...it will exist long after we are all dead and gone. GOG still sells DOS video games. There is no "support" needed, unless its to add new content. I have actually modded the app to run independently/offline of Steam, so its mine forever.
@@MoragTong_ Yes, boardgamers tend to talk about this a lot - will the app continue to run... unless the app is based on server (and I don't know of any like that), it will continue to run into the future.
I've skimmed through some reviews of the game and it's hilarious that none of the reviewers could be bothered to look up the spelling of 'Boot', which is much more like boat...
Hey! I got a Supergirl shirt like that!
This is actually a SuperCody shirt.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer What's that? ;)
@@gml4 Better you don't know, lest you covet its power.
I think I will pass on this one, but I hope in the future a more streamlined Science Fiction take on this will arise.
I was actually thinking the same thing as far as a sci-fi version.
So bad that they didnt used the app to tach you the game...
Not sure what you are trying to say here.
My fault! So if the game is app-driven the creators of the game could include a tutorial to teach the players how to play the game!
@@nikokahlo Indeed.
Yeg i agree time wasted pyscho reading rules attempting to 2n guess the designer makes me wanna
All my life I've been a submarine lover bud I much prefer Captain sonar because U-Boot has too much rules plus ... something messy and I don't like the cardboard sub ... Doesn't work on me. On the other hand I think that board games or wargames in live but using applications for the fog of war are great ideas (mostly for naval battles) and should be much more developed in the futur! TY for the video - GG
Thank you, sir.
If you are a sub lover have you tried 'The Hunters' from GMT? It's more sim than game but it's really accessible and is solo.
Looks like a pass for me...
It's not for everybody.
Does really anybody still bother about this game?
Nice look, lots of flaws, gone......
There is still interest out there, for sure.