Compared to the Jedi Covenant thing, that's peanuts. Plus, it allowed Ashoka to make the decision to leave the order, which spared her from order 66, so it wasn't that bad...
The righteous arrogance spoke of... yoda's words, "too sure of themselves, even the older, more experienced ones" including himself, who also fucked up
Obi Wan: "You were the chosen one, you were supposed to bring balance to the Force!" Palpatine: "Two Jedi left and Two Sith left... seems balanced to me, bro."
there were actually around 100 jedi left after order 66, Vaders main mission before episode 4 timeline was to go around the universe and murder all jedi that are left. he still wasnt able to get all of them.
Jango wasn’t actually mandelorian. He was just a bounty hunter with stolen mandelorian armour. Though you never get to see a mandelorian in the original saga in the clone wars tv series the mandelorians and clones look nothing alike.
Minuteman General We’re talking about the OG EU here, dude. I think pretty much everyone agrees that version of the Mandos was a billion times better than what TCW made of them.
Yeah, although Kitt Fisto was one of my favorite characters... so I was a little upset about you killing him. But you at least gave him a quick death, so I forgive you...
The Jedi lost their way when they decided to act as agents of the republic instead of agents of the force. There is not a single reason that the Jedi should have opposed the separatists attempts to peacefully leave the republic that doesn't involve their beliefs that the republics needs must come first. The republic was largely failing to protect and provide for the separatists and they should have had the right to shape their own governments. The Jedi could easily spent the last 1000 years challenging slavery or exploring the unknown regions or doing what the force guided them to do instead they became glorified bodyguards for the core worlds. I believe that by taking orders from the senate instead of focusing on the will of the force the Jedi began to loose their connection to the force and the whole order became blinded by arrogance and became unbalanced. When the Jedi backed the republic they all but ensured that the separatists would need to turn to the Sith in order to not be immediately defeated. Yes Sidious was largely involved but the resentments of the Separatists were legitimate. The handling of the blockade of Naboo honestly makes me wonder why Padmae was such a Republic loyalist.
@@airplanenojutsu They sent two Jedi. Not much, but what else could they do besides kicking out the trade federation out of the Republic and sanctioning them.
Yeah, one problem with your thesis: the entire Separatist Council (the ones actually in charge) were war profiteers. The Separatist Parliament didn't want war, but the Separatist Council did. The Jedi were on the right side of the Clone Wars.
Number Six is misleading. Mace Windu and the others weren't there to assassinate the Chancellor. They suspected him of being a Sith, yes, but that wasn't specifically what was illegal -- it was him being a Sith WHICH IN TURN meant that he was the one responsible for the Separatists and thus the war that they were arresting him for... getting rid of a Sith was just a bonus. They knew by then that Dooku had become a Sith and there is always Two of them. They actually very clearly said that they were there to arrest him, which would have lead to due process presumably. It is only after Palpatine reveals himself as a Sith Lord and kills three Jedi that Mace decides he needs to be killed. At that point, he had effectively admitted to being both evil and confirmed himself as the true enemy of the Republic and Windu both knew it was too dangerous to let him live AND was technically acting in self-defense by then since Sidious was clearly trying to murder him to resist arrest as he had just done to Masters Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and Agen Kolar.
That is kind of true but you are missing 1 key part. They did in fact know he was a Sith before even entering his office. He had told Anakin that he was in fact the Sith lord. Which in turn Anakin told Mace Windu and he told Anakin to wait in the jedi master chamber for their return.
Justin is right they already knew he was Sith Lord. It’s not the matter of self defense. It was not the Jedi way and was a stupid premature action. He had to stay in trial to prove guilty. Windu had the upper hand and could have dispatched him but chose to do the quick and sithlike thing and kill instantly. It was stupid, there was no proof aside from Anakin word. How do u expect that the whole senate would believe that the Jedi did a self righteous execution of their LEADER without any trial of legitament proof. They will be seen as tyrants and above the law.
@@tommyho3086 Less Sith-like, more he reasoned that the Republic court structure had been so manipulated by Sidious that there was a real chance that after all the damage he had caused there was a real chance he could be found not guilty and they would have a Sith running around in public free or Sidious could put a slant on his case and have the Jedi's undue influence diminished or even destroyed forever. Less Sith-like, more "I'm going to protect the Order, bleep you!"
11:37 I don't know if Obi-Wan cutting off a dudes arm who's holding blaster at Luke's gut in a lawless space bar is even ethically questionable, It's self defense. He even tried to deescalate the situation by buying them a round. And as far as Ezra luring Imperial combatants back to their base to blow them up, I don't think that holds much water either. Imagine a French resistance fighter in WWII luring Nazi's back to their base to blow it up, I'm not sure if I'd call that foul play. I like that you play devil's advocate in these vids Alan, but sometimes I think you stray a bit too far into unreasonable territory.
you also have to account for the fact that in the star war universe great prosthetic limbs exist, so cutting off someones arm isn't quite as bad as it would be in our world.
It is a problem in our society that people base weather some one is good or evil on what side their on, and not on what they do. "He's on our side, so we'll ignore that fact that he's throwing puppies of a forth floor balcony." "He's not on our side, so we'll give him the death penalty for walking on the grass."
I think i'll quote Super Best Friends about what they did to Revan. "Yeah, we removed your memories, autonomy and self determination so you can redeem yourself in the eyes of *OUR* religion."
Stuff like this would have been great motivation for Luke to think the Jedi need to end in TLJ, rather than "Darth Vader was trained by a Jedi and the Jedi don't own the force."
Read past the lines. How can the Jedi be perfect, or the goal to strive for if despite all their teachings and beliefs that they could train an evil like Darth Vader or allow the Empire to come about ie, how did they fail if they are supposed to be right. With regards to Darth Vader specifically - He turned to the darkside to save the person he loved after losing a person he loved. - Why because the Jedi don't allow you to love or hold any emotions really - that's not natural or really that human (or an form of sentience or life) - Simply put, he was taken from his mother and told he couldn't help her when she was in trouble, then he feels Padme is threatened but has to keep it a secret and can't trust those close to him because its against their beliefs, trying to prevent what happened to his mother he chooses the only option he sees that enables him to protect those close to him and that's fall to the darkside. The restrictions of the Jedi, set people up for failure and lack compassion and are designed to detach a person from others. - Rather than teaching people to handle, overcome and deal with their emotions they are required to reject and dismiss them - Makes the Jedi rather out of touch and not very understanding so you get powerful people desperate to do what they feel is right or people who simply don't care about others or those they deem inferior. - The Jedi were arrogant and presumptuous, and didn't solve problems they could have and created many of the problems they tried to avoid in their policies by trying to stop what was natural instead of being open and flexible. - They were so afraid of the dark they forgot how to balance themselves.
Yeah, it was that simple of an explanation and wasn't more detailed and nuanced than that. /s Keep in mind that in the prequels, the whole motivation and reasoning for Anakin's turn was that, from his point of view, "The Jedi are evil!" There was no context given, other than Mace trying to kill Palpatine rather than take him into custody. Lucas was clearly trying to establish that the Jedi Order were hypocrites that weren't nearly as righteous and good as they claimed to be, but his bad writing got in the way. Regardless, it's THIS narrative thread that Luke was referencing. If you didn't like Luke's reasoning, blame Lucas for doing a terrible job of setting it up 15 years ago. Watch The Clone Wars cartoon. It does a much better job of fleshing out all the terrible things that the Jedi have done and are guilty of, and how Anakin became disillusioned with them. It doesn't take a leap to assume that, as Luke learned more and more about the Jedi and how they contributed to his own father's fall to the dark side, as well as allowing Palpatine to come to power and destroy the Republic, that he would come to the same conclusions.
I mean good and bad are an opinion and depends what side your on like ww1 if you were german you believed that the Germans were good and if you were British or French you thought Britain and France were the good guys
The sith , at first,wanted to just be left alone.Imagine if you just wanted to live and some fanatics with lazer swords just started to attack you.What woud you do? Of course attack back.
The Jedi are WORSE then the Sith. The Sith follow their emotions and ACT HUMAN, wereas the Jedi support a dictatorship, kidnap children, attack anybody they view as a threat, ect. The JEDI are the evil ones.
@@alexbarn2233 sometimes though there it is clear like hitler in ww2 was obviously evil but due to his manipulation and speeches he was able to create an army
In general the Jedi Order around the time of the Clone Wars was literally at one of the worst points that it had ever been ideologically and philosophically. What you see is in the movies is a prestigious order and group at the end of it's life having lost it's way, blinded by it's own arrogance and naiveté. The only thing I must contest is the choice to attack Palpatine, they were essentially backed into a corner with few options, most of the ones you listed would have entailed a high risk of Palpatine learning about their knowledge of him as a Sith which would have likely sent him into hiding. On top of this Palpatine had rigged the Senate and Judiciary so he was almost guaranteed to be a free man had they attempted to depose him through the legal system. The downside is that the Jedi had no idea of how powerful Palpatine actually was in the Force which meant any dealings would be highly dangerous.
@Troy Goldberg No, they could have done exactly what they had originally planned: tell him Grievous was dead and see if he would relinquish his emergency powers. If he didn't, then they would have had a legitimate reason to arrest him
@@DavidbarZeus1 True, but the Senate might have a change of heart and decide to allow Palpatine to rule forever. Besides most people in the Republic didn’t trust the Jedi or the corrupt Republic in whose name they were serving. The Jedi Order had lost it’s way quite some time ago, and to be honest I think that both the Jedi Order and the Republic needed to fall in order for something better to arise in their place.
@@jmwilliamsart On that last point, I completely agree. On the former though, while the Senate had essentially become Palpatine’s yes men, his term WAS legally over even before the Clone Wars began, and he had claimed that he would give up his position at the end of the war. With Grievous dead, the CIS had no military commanders that could withstand the GAR. So, they arrest Palpatine if he refused to step down and let the Senate decide what to do next. If they DID choose to support Palpatine, well, at least the Jedi could say they followed the law. They could have even split from the Republic and reconnected with the Will of the Force elsewhere as they had before
@@DavidbarZeus1 It’s possible that the Jedi could’ve split from the Republic, but I’m not so sure, they had allowed themselves to be too heavily associated with the Republic for 1,000 years to suddenly break from it. In ROTS novel Yoda realized that he had failed the Order by not allowing it to change, and that they had already lost a long time ago. The Sith had evolved and grown stronger while working in the shadows, whereas the Jedi had stagnated in the service of a corrupt Republic and grown weaker. The Sith had developed a new plan and strategy for defeating the Jedi whereas the Jedi had only trained to fight the last battle. In that moment when Windu and the other Jedi came to arrest him, Palpatine had already planned for that when he put in a recording device which recorded the first 15-20 minutes which seemed to confirm that the Jedi had committed treason. I think that even if he had lost to Windu he knew that Anakin would arrive at the correct moment in order to persuade Anakin that the Jedi were committing treason. Palpatine had fooled and manipulated everybody including the Jedi right to the very end. And as I previously stated the people of the galaxy didn’t trust the Jedi who acted on behalf of corrupt senators, and self serving elites instead of the average people of the galaxy. Whereas Luke’s Jedi Order would become independent from the New Republic, and not get caught up in the petty politics. I’m guessing that Luke’s Order found other means of financing themselves rather than depending on the New Republic, do you know how by any chance? The Jedi had the same problem that Anakin had by episode 3 (he feared what may happen to Padmé). Yoda and the Council were so worried about the future that they didn’t keep their focus on the here and now. That’s one of the key reasons why they didn’t see the threat that was starring them right in the face, that being Palpatine. So later on when Yoda trains Luke he tells him that the future is always in motion, that it’s important to be patient and concentrate on the here and now. And Obi Wan wasn’t overly critical, and domineering towards Luke the way he was with Anakin. At least they had both learned from their mistakes.
13:18 But at the end that ideology to only look at people as individuals doesn't work, when those individuals have a group identity and act as a group. You may say "hey, do your own thing, but an individual", but if they consider themselves part of XYZ Group and act according to the wishes of the hoard, you have to accept that they are part of that hoard and treat the threat accordingly, whether they identify as National Socialists, Communists, or Islamists.
@Cian McCabe Just because a social experiment is new, does not mean it is better. For example, Marxism was a new idea... disaster, and has killed more people than all world wars combined, and in fact can be argued was a catalyst for WW2. The drug culture hippy movement of the 60s was also a failed experiment, and would have led to the complete and total collapse of Western civilization had it been adopted widescale. This new hate-filled extreme leftist movement of intersectionalism is surely going to be another failed movement, as scapegoating a demographic be it Jews or "CIS white males" as the root of all evil has never worked out for anyone, and this idea that Stone Cold Steve Austin could overnight decide he was Stone Cold Stephanie Austin and compete against female athletes is asinine. Its fine to try new social experiments, but you MUST admit when a social experiment is a complete and utter failure and that's what the misandrist, racist, and glorification of mental disorder victim-olympics of 2019 has proven it is. The pendulum needs to swing back to normalcy and allow only the GOOD POSITIVE experiments that worked become part of the mainstream status quo.
But what about the Sith Genocide, where the Jedi attempted literal genocide against the Sith purebloods and turned Korriban into a tomb world until the Sith Empire could return and reclaim their home
Palpatine started a war that probably killed hundreds of millions and he staged the entire war, including the creation of the slave army(clones),he deserved more than even death at that point
Right? He worded it like the Jedi rolled up to assassinate him as the chancellor, and not arrest a possible (probable) sith Lord. Mace is totally going to still try and arrest him after he casually murdered three Jedi Masters, to be tried in front of the Senate he ran. And helped fill. *Rrrigghhttt.* Sound logic.
Whenever people talk about this I’d like to point them to another fictional series: Assassin’s Creed. Though not the exact same the Jedi had more in common with the Templars (control and obedience) while the Sith had more in common with the Assassins (individuality and free will). Only in AC, the assassins are the protagonists. By twisting narratives the same ideals can become good/evil.
I agree about the Jedi being like the Templars but the Sith are more like Nazis imo. Only a few really believe in and control their ideology the rest just are following out of fear and survival.
The sith tried to destroy the Old republic and they had enslaved many innocent alien species(not figuratively: they actually practiced slavery). As extreme as the Sith holocaust was, you can't say that they didn't have it coming. They were cruel and horrifying. The bad things that the jedi did pale in comparison to the sheer level of horror and depravity that the Sith civilisation had demonstrated.
yeah, the people in charge actually did something wrong not the average Sith Species, they have nothing to do with this and the wars, but the Jedi decided to glassed the entire Civilisations.
@Troy Goldberg but that doesn't make them evil. It makes them more twisted the more they seek for power. Both fueled by fear, hate, and pain, they would seek to gain power to prevent themselves from ever falling prey to anyone.
I believe for Revan they just wiped his mind, nothing like bashed his mind till he forgot. Whether or not memory wipes are moral is another discussion, but the description in the video paints a different image of events.
Considering Anikin was "bought" out of slavery and slavery was only illegal in the Republic, of which Tatooin was not a part, yes the Jedi were OK with slavery that was outside their jurisdiction. Not that it stopped them from screwing the slave owner over in retaliation or cheating (which I assume would be illegal there) to get the choice of slave he wanted.
Qui-Gon Jinn himself stated that he wasn't there to free slaves. He had a more important mission and was on the run with little to no resources available. Two Jedi (and possibly a commandeered security force) against a planet ruled by the Hutts who are in charge of the slave trade? Yeah, I don't see that happening.
Qui-Gon and by extension Anakin would have joined Darth Tyrannis and this Separatists. That whole exchange with Obi-Wan wasn't bluster, he just couldn't accept that the Republic had fallen under Sith control (that he was a Sith as well was a detail that he left out and would have done the same with Qui-Gon).
As for #1, the Jedi saw the Clones as expendable because the Jedi saw THEMSELVES as expendable. They were all ready to charge forward and die for the Republic, as was evidenced in that big free-for-all in the Geonosis Arena. So they expected the same thing from their own soldiers. Each Jedi is taught that self-sacrifice is the highest goal, to sacrifice oneself for the Force, for peace, and for justice. The Jedi expected the same from their Clone Troopers or even the Republic Troopers of the Old Republic Era. So that isn't a crime. This is just the Jedi being lemmings ready to die for the cause because that's how they were raised, so they treated their soldiers the same way. Most Jedi Commanders weren't heartless assholes, they weren't like the fucking Imperial Commissars from 40K, they were more like well-meaning naive Leeroy-Jenkins types who were ready to meet death on the battlefield and expected their men to be the same. Pong Krell doesn't count, because by the time of Umbara, he was already a Separatist agent, so he was just getting Clones killed on purpose so the Separatists can win.
Kamikaze attacks have been military strategy for thousands of years so the jedi really weren't doing anything that was unheard of but still it was kind of a dumb move to go all Leroy Jenkins as you said haha
Very true, the Jedi dogma caused most of the Jedi to behave like Androids rather than living beings, basically sealing their own feelings and not having any attachments.
Nothing in the Jedi Code requires that they not be evil. They have to be un-emotional and serene. Nice is not mentioned anywhere, as far as I can see. Universal love and compassion for all is the same as love and compassion for none.
Yeah, I've been toying around with a What if? scenario, and the trial of Palpatine is a major roadblock. First obstacle: aren't the Jedi technically partaking in religious persecution?
That was a few things that have been worse than some of listed by You: 1) The genocide of the sith species 2) Bombardment of Mandalor 3) Jedi Shadows - trained to destroy anything and everything connected with the Sith and their followers, and also to track down and (in some cases) even kill wild force users or fellow Jedi if they (in the opinion of that particular Jedi Shadow) were tempted by the dark side. 4) And of course, the expulsion of Ahsoka from the Jedi Order, so as not to lose the republic's support in the war.
That’s the best video yet. I love how you discuss matters relating to our beloved Galaxy Far Far Away as if those characters and events existed in our presently perceived reality. In life I often run to that Galaxy to hide and relax. The riggers and trails of this world make those little vacations all the more refreshing. So I am very entertained when I watch one of your videos because of your realistic matter of fact dissertation of events or characters that existed in our vacation galaxy. Thank you for all the hard work and I prefer you over British Ben. I feel like he owns a white panel van “free candy” spray painted on the side. I fear he is Vong in disguise. He frightens me.
The New Jedi Order from Legends managed to avoid most of the pitfalls of the old Jedi Order, and even managed to survive one of their number turning to the Dark Side on several occasions, and weathered the Yuuzhan Vong War, when every other faction was torn apart and mashed back together.
Generation Tech I think you would agree that there a few jedi that stood out above the rest of the order that showed great compassion for the clones they commanded. Yoda, kit fisto, mace windu, plo koon, and of course obi wan and anakin plus asoka. Each of these masters, throughout the main series but also through the cannons showed true feelings they had in battle and down time. And after watching this video I love how you tie everything in together. Keep up the neutral position I love it and frankly describes how I view everything.
So asokha was a preteen commander who in a wreakless attack got several clone pilots killed. Anakin then punished like she has taken the family car for a spin. Let's not forget these clones are growth accelerated but still human so these technically child slave soldier which are thrown about by a child like toys to be broken.
Essentially, she was a 14 year old leading an army of 10 year olds in a war that was orchestrated by a secret Sith Lord that the Jedi were too arrogant to sense sitting right in from to them
Ones mace Windu, a powerful force user who has proven time and time again he won’t turn to the dark side, and one was palpating, a chancellor who had long served his term and was EXTREMELY suspicious
I’m still convinced that the Jedi are NOT evil. However, very often throughout their history, they were something that can be just as bad as being “evil”: Being dogmatic. When they believe their way as it is is the ONLY correct path, and refuse to adapt, evolve, and/or reform to meet the needs of the changing times, it will ALWAYS create more problems than solutions for the Galaxy. This is why Luke Skywalker (the TRUE Luke Skywalker from the EU/Legends, and my personal headcanon) worked so hard to completely restructure and reorganize the Jedi Order after Episode VI. If he felt that a practice/tradition of theirs caused more harm than good, both for the Galaxy and for the Order itself, he did what previous generations of Jedi SHOULD have done: He ABOLISHED it!
2018: GT - "The Jedi Secret Archives contains a list of the children Yoda has fathered out of wedlock." 2019: The Mandalorian - "So, here's a baby Yoda who was born 50 years ago, during the height of the Jedi Order..."
Allen, I love how you continue to question, challenge & expose the Jedi order! At the end of the day, Jedi & Sith are just two sides of the exact same coin!
I would put the role the Jedi played in the genocide against the people of the Sith after the Great Hyperspace War on the first place. It is not eactly the same as their hate towards the order of the Sith, since in that case the Jedi accepted and in part executed a policy of the Old Republic against a whole species (or more than one) on several planets. Just because they saw a strong connection between them and the dark side (but I guess most of the victims where by far not force-sensitive enough to ever become a dark foce user). It was the Republic who started this genocide, but the Jedi where part of it. Had they used the knowledge of the ancient Sith priests to understand the dark side better than living the dream to exterminate it once and for all, maybe some of the later wars could have been avoided.
Exactly! Prime example! If the Jedi got that message, and understood it, that they needed to achieve true balance instead of this badly-warped one-sided shit view millenia ago, billions of lives would not have been lost and the biggest wars to have been conceived of (the Sith Empire, the Hyperspace Wars, the list goes on.) never would have happened in the first place! Also when that weapon went off, didn't it birth Darth Nillius?
In another sith origin story, the sith were originally a species, that such as the dathomirians or the rakata had a very special connection to the dark side. When a group of exciled dark jedi came to their planet, Korriban, they trained the sith in the dark side and they eventually created an empire. After a war and defeat with the republic the jedi decided the sith were too dangerous, so they bassically made a sith version of order 66, known as the sith holocaust. The few escaping sith created the sith order and the second sith empire.
So I love your videos and have been watching them for a while and think they are really informative and well edited with really good information but I just don't agree with most of your points personally I argue the jedi have done bad stuff ie. the sith holocaust but many of the things you argue are bad I would argue aren't. 1. I get your point with this one however I mean can you blame the jedi for trying to win a war against the sith empire thats like complaining about some of the bad stuff the UK did during WW2 but they did that in order to defeat hitler I believe its justified in the circumstances and outside of wartime the jedi didn't do this so I feel its not a real issue with the jedi. 2. Thats awful can't really argue with that one but tbh thats an issue with individuals not the order as a whole. 3. Thats just a mistake one individual made and I mean thats just a mistake I don't think you can blame the jedi as a whole for it 4. Again I understand for this one but its again during a time of war and so in the circumstances it makes sense to try and get information from Revan in order to be able to stop the war going on so long 5. Yeah the jedi became more trapped in their ways and extreme but literally all the sith wars were started by an attack by the sith and so while the jedi's inability to compromise caused the wars you are massively underplaying the role of the sith in these wars. 6. This isn't really an issue I mean to start with Palpatine purposely got the jedi more involved in politics to try and show the republic the jedi were interfering in politics. Also Windu went there to arrest Palpatine not to kill him he said twice you are under arrest and its only after Palpatine tries to kill him again that windu decides to kill him and Palpatine had effective control over most of the senate and the judicial system so impeachment wouldn't have really worked. 7. Qui gon did attempt to free Shmii too anyway but he couldn't manage it and anyway tattooine isn't part of the republic and so slavery isn't illegal and the jedi have no jurisdiction there anyway. 8. Very odd argument the republic were told a few years later and the argument that the jedi would have been more prepared is not true as it wasn't till the last days of the republic that the jedi discovered that palpatine was a sith and as you said earlier being a sith isn't a crime so why would the republic help arrest Palpatine. 9. Yeah this is true and some of the stuff the jedi did was awful namely the sith holocaust and they got away with it but in your example of anakin and the CIS you argue it would be believed to be a warcrime well I don't think it would be no living beings died as a result of his actions unless you include b1 battle droids and they helped free a planet that was being horribly repressed by the CIS your example of ezra bridger also is taken from a freedom fighter helping to free a planet being repressed by the empire you're not being objective as you brand him as a terrorist while that is what the empire would call him it is not what he was he believed he was helping free people from oppression and these events therefore are not as black and white as you paint them especially during times of war. Most of your examples are taken from times of war where many of their actions are justified in order to free planets and people from repressive regimes and murderous dictatorships. 10. This one is true and imo the jedi never should have become generals in an army as windu says to palpatine at the start of attack of the clones "we're not soldiers" however many of the jedi did have close relationships with clones and seemed hurt when they died and furthermore yoda himself argued that the clones were living beings who weren't just robots to be chucked into war as seen in the clone wars tv show. Some of the jedi generals cared little for the clone soldiers under their command but some of these were revealed to be under the influence of the sith and so that again is not an issue with the jedi.
you sir have a very comprehensive argument and raised many a good point. Not to mention Generation tech is in itself a very biased source for such things
Allen Bettis you forget they have existed for 10,000s of years and will make mistakes along the way they aren’t saints they are people who try to act like saints
After this video and hearing about the covenant I just realize that, from everytime a Jedi had a force vision, their actions towards that vision is the detonator of that vision actully happening.
The Jedi Order could never have gotten so huge without taxpayer money. However Palpatine was able to argue that the Jedi were an elite monastic order capable of overthrowing the government.
You're mistaken in thinking that the Jedi are above the laws. While they do have several authoritative powers granted by the Chancellor, they can only act within their assigned jurisdiction within the Republic. Qui-Gon had absolutely no authority to just take a Slave off of a planet where slavery is legal. He only took Anakin after securing his freedom, and after getting consent from his Mother, and because he felt compelled to by the Force. And even if he did abscond with Shmi, what then? She wouldn't be allowed to stay at the Temple, and without any funds of her own she would more than likely live in a state of poverty on the streets of Coruscant. At least under Watto she had a home and the promise of being fed everyday.
What was Palpatine guilty of? He seized control of the Republic Senate by orchestrating and facilitating the kidnapping of the Queen of Naboo by means of an illegal invasion. The invasion which led to the death of probably millions of people and kicked off a three year war with an illegal clone army that caused more death and destruction. And to top that he refused to give up the temporary special power granted to him once the war he created ended. He's a complete war criminal and the reality is the Sith were the enemies of the Republic and the Jedi which is why he hid his true identity.
The difference between your funky dreams and force visions is that force visions are real. In the case of the Jedi Covenant the very attempt to prevent their vision from coming to fruition was what brought it to fruition.
10:24 “when Obi-wan Kenobi and Qui-gon Jin run into Darth Maul...” *epic opening encounter to Battle of the Fates whilst 80s synth pop plays in the background with Allen’s analysis*! This is why I love Generation Tech
Love the synthwave tunes. At 5:44 I had to pause the video to make sure I didn't leave my music on in another tab! What is the songs you're using? Otherwise, great video, and I learned quite a bit!
Just saying, jedi visions have a habit of being accurate more times than not but i remember the quote "A person often meets his destiny on the road he took to avoid it. "
@@chrisrey9644 We would be getting ships designed for ship to ship combat and a terror doctrine rather than mobile warfare doctrine we have an emphasis on combined arms.
You DO realize that the Jedi tried to depose/kill Palpatine not just for being a Sith Lord but because he plunged the galaxy into the Clone Wars that killed trillions of beings and devastated the galaxy all so he could gain the power he needed to have the Jedi wiped out and turn the Republic into the Empire. Besides, Palpatine by then controlled the Senate AND the Courts so if the Jedi told them "Chancellor Palpatine's a Sith Lord who tricked everyone into fighting each other in the Clone Wars!", neither the Senate, the Courts or the public would believe them as Palpatine was too popular plus there was a lot of anti-Jedi sentiment by that point and they all would've said that the Jedi are accusing Palpatine of being a Sith Lord just to get him out of office and get the Republic back under their control. Basically, the Jedi Order had pissed away their reputation in the last few decades before the Empire's rise with numerous bad decisions that made people think that they were corrupt and uncaring so they felt that to get rid of the Sith for good, they had to kill Palpatine themselves.
Well, the Jedi also had no evidence against Palpypie, nor did they actually charge him with a crime or give him a chance to lay down his emergency powers, they just attempted to kill him
Actually in the Revenge of the Sith novel the Jedi was gathering intelligence and investigating a Sith Lord within the Senate when count Dooku told Obi-Wan of Darth Sidious. When Anakin told Mace of Palpatine being a Sith Lord that, fight with Darth Maul, and knowing that both Dooku and Ventres was associated with the Sith, yes they wasn't going to take any chances since they were sworn enemies.
Not really. If anything, compared to all the depraved atrocities that the Sith did, the stuff you see in this video is nothing but peanuts. The jedi are a necessary lesser evil.
What was Palpatine guilty of? He literally murdered 3 jedi knights in front of Mace Windu as well as tried to kill Mace Windu. Windu wanted to arrest Palpatine to interrogate him... Palpatine answered by killing the jedi... Of course he had reasons to kill Palpatine... considering Palpatine has lightning powers... it is more of a reason to kill him.
You just gained a subbed👍🏼 really enjoyed how you presented the content and stayed on point until the subject was done, instead of spouting nonsense like most youtubers do. Awesome work man, hope to see more videos soon!
Your 5th point is actually wrong. The Sith didnt start with exiled jedi at all. The sith are actually a race at first, power hungry, infighting dark side users for millenia before the exiled jedi arrive at their home world and start inbreeding with them, creating the modern sith a mere 7000 years before the main story. And some of the arguments you make about the jedi not taking the judicial way are just... weird to me. Just like saying Stauffenberg was a bad person because he took an extrajudicial way trying to dispose of hitler. Fact of the matter is, the jedi DID want to go the judicial round and only imprison palpatine for a trial, and mace windu only tried to kill him after he had revealed himself to be a very powerful threat & sith beyond any doubt.
No, Mace drew and activated his lightsaber on a SUSPECTED threat, or did you forget that he didn't actually trust Anakin at that point? He simply attempted to arrest him without laying a single charge against him or giving him a chance to do as he said and lay down his emergency powers. That is a coup, not an arrest
#9 doesn't work. Ezra has Jedi training from a former Padawan - not a Jedi Knight or even a Master. Not to mention that taking out the majority of Imperials on Lothal in one action was less of a massacre and more of a strategic victory as the rebels weren't on an even playing field. It's the same with both Death Stars.
These are all interesting theories, but I disagree with a lot of them. Kreia believed that the Jedi didn't really brainwash Revan. They had simply erased the affects of the Dark Side and restored him to his original persona: Someone who would fight to protect others. What was Palpatine guilty of? A lot of things! He managed to stay in Office long after his term had expired. Yes, the Senate demanded he remain, but it was still unconstitutional. There were even a lot of Senators that doubted the Chancellor's true intentions. He said he would give up his emergency powers after the crisis abated. But he didn't. And when 2000 senators wrote a petition demanding this, he just viewed them as traitors. Eventually he disbanded the Senate. And that was just before the Rebellion. Besides, Anakin was the one who told Mace Windu that Palpatine was a Sith Lord. He even offered to help arrest him. And in Episode 1, Qui-gon DID want to free Shmi, but he couldn't. And he couldn't just knock out Watto, because Shmi would still have the transmitter in her body. If they took her away, then Watto, or anyone else could have just activated it and blown them up. And Shmi would have died anyway.
Sorry, but due to the changing laws of the Republic, Palpypie's extended term wasn't illegal, just unprecedented. Also, the Jedi didn't give him a chance to lay down his emergency powers following the death of Grievous, which was Palpypie's own definition of the end of the crisis.
Of course, they have done terrible things, they're terrible people. For goodness sake, the Jedi are evil!😎😉😁😂😗🤣 Like the Sith, the Jedi also dealt in absolutes. Grey Jedi forever! In Generation Tech We Trust 😉
1. What they did to Ahsoka.
After order 66 captain rex and Ahsoka faked their death
Compared to the Jedi Covenant thing, that's peanuts. Plus, it allowed Ashoka to make the decision to leave the order, which spared her from order 66, so it wasn't that bad...
Did I miss where she was gang banged by the Jedi Council?
The righteous arrogance spoke of... yoda's words, "too sure of themselves, even the older, more experienced ones" including himself, who also fucked up
nobody true
Obi Wan: "You were the chosen one, you were supposed to bring balance to the Force!"
Palpatine: "Two Jedi left and Two Sith left... seems balanced to me, bro."
True
There were more than two though
there were actually around 100 jedi left after order 66, Vaders main mission before episode 4 timeline was to go around the universe and murder all jedi that are left. he still wasnt able to get all of them.
it wasn't balanced yet, even after RoTJ. His grandson and (ironically) Palpatine's grand-daughter finished what he started.
That's why Luke was involved with the death of all 4 of them he broke the balance the bastard it all makes sense now
You could say that the Mandalorians and Jango through the clones, did get their revenge for what the Jedi did all those years ago.
I did not piece the two together until now omg
Arc Trooper Null Jango‘s great plan- It worked.
Jango wasn’t actually mandelorian. He was just a bounty hunter with stolen mandelorian armour. Though you never get to see a mandelorian in the original saga in the clone wars tv series the mandelorians and clones look nothing alike.
Minuteman General We’re talking about the OG EU here, dude. I think pretty much everyone agrees that version of the Mandos was a billion times better than what TCW made of them.
well Mandalorian influence sure
"Did you ever hear about the terrible deeds of the Jedi?"
"No."
"I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you."
Killing younglings is not evil, right?
jackwhitetron where not killing where saving them from the Jedi
But the Sith will tell you all their deeds. Join us, and we can rule the galaxy with peace.
Rebels are better than the republic and the empire. It wasn't run by jedi or sith and was actually a semi honest organization.
@@-SayWhatAgainMF- Doesn't the galaxy deserve better than "semi honest"?
Lol I killed loads in my office
You have unlimited power!
Yeah, although Kitt Fisto was one of my favorite characters... so I was a little upset about you killing him. But you at least gave him a quick death, so I forgive you...
You are the senate
Dew it
@@georgemarch6581 not yet
The Jedi lost their way when they decided to act as agents of the republic instead of agents of the force. There is not a single reason that the Jedi should have opposed the separatists attempts to peacefully leave the republic that doesn't involve their beliefs that the republics needs must come first. The republic was largely failing to protect and provide for the separatists and they should have had the right to shape their own governments. The Jedi could easily spent the last 1000 years challenging slavery or exploring the unknown regions or doing what the force guided them to do instead they became glorified bodyguards for the core worlds. I believe that by taking orders from the senate instead of focusing on the will of the force the Jedi began to loose their connection to the force and the whole order became blinded by arrogance and became unbalanced. When the Jedi backed the republic they all but ensured that the separatists would need to turn to the Sith in order to not be immediately defeated. Yes Sidious was largely involved but the resentments of the Separatists were legitimate. The handling of the blockade of Naboo honestly makes me wonder why Padmae was such a Republic loyalist.
Anakin did balance the force. The sith and Jedi were eradicated because of him. Balance.
Maybe one of the major backers of the Separatists (Trade Federation) blockaded her planet and tried to have her killed lol.
@@alejandromaldonado6159 Yeah and the republic's response was "¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Naboo was abandoned to face the Federation alone.
@@airplanenojutsu They sent two Jedi. Not much, but what else could they do besides kicking out the trade federation out of the Republic and sanctioning them.
Yeah, one problem with your thesis: the entire Separatist Council (the ones actually in charge) were war profiteers. The Separatist Parliament didn't want war, but the Separatist Council did. The Jedi were on the right side of the Clone Wars.
But Revan has a good outfit, and was a badass.
Haha yes this is true
As most sith in the old republic...
Number Six is misleading. Mace Windu and the others weren't there to assassinate the Chancellor. They suspected him of being a Sith, yes, but that wasn't specifically what was illegal -- it was him being a Sith WHICH IN TURN meant that he was the one responsible for the Separatists and thus the war that they were arresting him for... getting rid of a Sith was just a bonus. They knew by then that Dooku had become a Sith and there is always Two of them. They actually very clearly said that they were there to arrest him, which would have lead to due process presumably. It is only after Palpatine reveals himself as a Sith Lord and kills three Jedi that Mace decides he needs to be killed. At that point, he had effectively admitted to being both evil and confirmed himself as the true enemy of the Republic and Windu both knew it was too dangerous to let him live AND was technically acting in self-defense by then since Sidious was clearly trying to murder him to resist arrest as he had just done to Masters Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and Agen Kolar.
That is kind of true but you are missing 1 key part. They did in fact know he was a Sith before even entering his office. He had told Anakin that he was in fact the Sith lord. Which in turn Anakin told Mace Windu and he told Anakin to wait in the jedi master chamber for their return.
Yaaaas queen. I just left a comment like this. I 100% agree.
@@jhart5969 Mace Windu specifically states that IF Anakin was being honest, he'd have his full trust. Mace didn't immediately believe Anakin.
Justin is right they already knew he was Sith Lord. It’s not the matter of self defense. It was not the Jedi way and was a stupid premature action. He had to stay in trial to prove guilty. Windu had the upper hand and could have dispatched him but chose to do the quick and sithlike thing and kill instantly.
It was stupid, there was no proof aside from Anakin word. How do u expect that the whole senate would believe that the Jedi did a self righteous execution of their LEADER without any trial of legitament proof. They will be seen as tyrants and above the law.
@@tommyho3086 Less Sith-like, more he reasoned that the Republic court structure had been so manipulated by Sidious that there was a real chance that after all the damage he had caused there was a real chance he could be found not guilty and they would have a Sith running around in public free or Sidious could put a slant on his case and have the Jedi's undue influence diminished or even destroyed forever.
Less Sith-like, more "I'm going to protect the Order, bleep you!"
Slave army of clones...
It was the grand army of the REPUBLIC
Telekinetic Sloth
From the Separatists view it was a slave army...
sikid4000
Slave army of ten year old clones.
True but that’s on the entire Republic, not just the Jedi. The Senate never said no or that it is immoral.
Mark81150
True...
11:37 I don't know if Obi-Wan cutting off a dudes arm who's holding blaster at Luke's gut in a lawless space bar is even ethically questionable, It's self defense. He even tried to deescalate the situation by buying them a round. And as far as Ezra luring Imperial combatants back to their base to blow them up, I don't think that holds much water either. Imagine a French resistance fighter in WWII luring Nazi's back to their base to blow it up, I'm not sure if I'd call that foul play. I like that you play devil's advocate in these vids Alan, but sometimes I think you stray a bit too far into unreasonable territory.
you also have to account for the fact that in the star war universe great prosthetic limbs exist, so cutting off someones arm isn't quite as bad as it would be in our world.
It is a problem in our society that people base weather some one is good or evil on what side their on, and not on what they do. "He's on our side, so we'll ignore that fact that he's throwing puppies of a forth floor balcony."
"He's not on our side, so we'll give him the death penalty for walking on the grass."
Rodney Kelly “Who me? This is my property...”
The Phanatic and his hot dog gun strikes again.
I think i'll quote Super Best Friends about what they did to Revan.
"Yeah, we removed your memories, autonomy and self determination so you can redeem yourself in the eyes of *OUR* religion."
Considering Darth Revan had, by that point, almost certainly earned execution for his war crimes, it's hard to argue that the Jedi were wrong.
Stuff like this would have been great motivation for Luke to think the Jedi need to end in TLJ, rather than "Darth Vader was trained by a Jedi and the Jedi don't own the force."
Yea I’m sure they’ll be a book that fleshes out what Luke was doing
Honestly I think that is what that meant though.
The Jedi weren’t perfect they need to end or be modified.
That makes no sense whatsoever. How does one equate to the other? It's a freaking word salad is what it is.
Read past the lines. How can the Jedi be perfect, or the goal to strive for if despite all their teachings and beliefs that they could train an evil like Darth Vader or allow the Empire to come about ie, how did they fail if they are supposed to be right.
With regards to Darth Vader specifically
- He turned to the darkside to save the person he loved after losing a person he loved.
- Why because the Jedi don't allow you to love or hold any emotions really - that's not natural or really that human (or an form of sentience or life)
- Simply put, he was taken from his mother and told he couldn't help her when she was in trouble, then he feels Padme is threatened but has to keep it a secret and can't trust those close to him because its against their beliefs, trying to prevent what happened to his mother he chooses the only option he sees that enables him to protect those close to him and that's fall to the darkside.
The restrictions of the Jedi, set people up for failure and lack compassion and are designed to detach a person from others.
- Rather than teaching people to handle, overcome and deal with their emotions they are required to reject and dismiss them
- Makes the Jedi rather out of touch and not very understanding so you get powerful people desperate to do what they feel is right or people who simply don't care about others or those they deem inferior.
- The Jedi were arrogant and presumptuous, and didn't solve problems they could have and created many of the problems they tried to avoid in their policies by trying to stop what was natural instead of being open and flexible.
- They were so afraid of the dark they forgot how to balance themselves.
Yeah, it was that simple of an explanation and wasn't more detailed and nuanced than that. /s
Keep in mind that in the prequels, the whole motivation and reasoning for Anakin's turn was that, from his point of view, "The Jedi are evil!" There was no context given, other than Mace trying to kill Palpatine rather than take him into custody. Lucas was clearly trying to establish that the Jedi Order were hypocrites that weren't nearly as righteous and good as they claimed to be, but his bad writing got in the way. Regardless, it's THIS narrative thread that Luke was referencing. If you didn't like Luke's reasoning, blame Lucas for doing a terrible job of setting it up 15 years ago.
Watch The Clone Wars cartoon. It does a much better job of fleshing out all the terrible things that the Jedi have done and are guilty of, and how Anakin became disillusioned with them. It doesn't take a leap to assume that, as Luke learned more and more about the Jedi and how they contributed to his own father's fall to the dark side, as well as allowing Palpatine to come to power and destroy the Republic, that he would come to the same conclusions.
The Jedi aren’t the good guys but the sith aren’t good either.
I mean good and bad are an opinion and depends what side your on like ww1 if you were german you believed that the Germans were good and if you were British or French you thought Britain and France were the good guys
The sith , at first,wanted to just be left alone.Imagine if you just wanted to live and some fanatics with lazer swords just started to attack you.What woud you do? Of course attack back.
So I suppose the Jedi truly don’t deal in absolutes.
The Jedi are WORSE then the Sith. The Sith follow their emotions and ACT HUMAN, wereas the Jedi support a dictatorship, kidnap children, attack anybody they view as a threat, ect. The JEDI are the evil ones.
@@alexbarn2233 sometimes though there it is clear like hitler in ww2 was obviously evil but due to his manipulation and speeches he was able to create an army
No Taxation without representation!
Ah a Separatist i see
Ah me 2
Wrong franchise 🤣
@@eviltwinzak The entire Separatist Alliance taxed to sh*t before declearing independence: AM i a joke to you?
You forgot to mention the Sith Genocide by the Jedi and Republic after the Great Hyperspace War.
In general the Jedi Order around the time of the Clone Wars was literally at one of the worst points that it had ever been ideologically and philosophically. What you see is in the movies is a prestigious order and group at the end of it's life having lost it's way, blinded by it's own arrogance and naiveté. The only thing I must contest is the choice to attack Palpatine, they were essentially backed into a corner with few options, most of the ones you listed would have entailed a high risk of Palpatine learning about their knowledge of him as a Sith which would have likely sent him into hiding. On top of this Palpatine had rigged the Senate and Judiciary so he was almost guaranteed to be a free man had they attempted to depose him through the legal system. The downside is that the Jedi had no idea of how powerful Palpatine actually was in the Force which meant any dealings would be highly dangerous.
@Troy Goldberg No, they could have done exactly what they had originally planned: tell him Grievous was dead and see if he would relinquish his emergency powers. If he didn't, then they would have had a legitimate reason to arrest him
@@DavidbarZeus1 True, but the Senate might have a change of heart and decide to allow Palpatine to rule forever. Besides most people in the Republic didn’t trust the Jedi or the corrupt Republic in whose name they were serving. The Jedi Order had lost it’s way quite some time ago, and to be honest I think that both the Jedi Order and the Republic needed to fall in order for something better to arise in their place.
@@jmwilliamsart On that last point, I completely agree. On the former though, while the Senate had essentially become Palpatine’s yes men, his term WAS legally over even before the Clone Wars began, and he had claimed that he would give up his position at the end of the war. With Grievous dead, the CIS had no military commanders that could withstand the GAR. So, they arrest Palpatine if he refused to step down and let the Senate decide what to do next. If they DID choose to support Palpatine, well, at least the Jedi could say they followed the law. They could have even split from the Republic and reconnected with the Will of the Force elsewhere as they had before
@@DavidbarZeus1 It’s possible that the Jedi could’ve split from the Republic, but I’m not so sure, they had allowed themselves to be too heavily associated with the Republic for 1,000 years to suddenly break from it. In ROTS novel Yoda realized that he had failed the Order by not allowing it to change, and that they had already lost a long time ago. The Sith had evolved and grown stronger while working in the shadows, whereas the Jedi had stagnated in the service of a corrupt Republic and grown weaker. The Sith had developed a new plan and strategy for defeating the Jedi whereas the Jedi had only trained to fight the last battle.
In that moment when Windu and the other Jedi came to arrest him, Palpatine had already planned for that when he put in a recording device which recorded the first 15-20 minutes which seemed to confirm that the Jedi had committed treason. I think that even if he had lost to Windu he knew that Anakin would arrive at the correct moment in order to persuade Anakin that the Jedi were committing treason. Palpatine had fooled and manipulated everybody including the Jedi right to the very end.
And as I previously stated the people of the galaxy didn’t trust the Jedi who acted on behalf of corrupt senators, and self serving elites instead of the average people of the galaxy. Whereas Luke’s Jedi Order would become independent from the New Republic, and not get caught up in the petty politics. I’m guessing that Luke’s Order found other means of financing themselves rather than depending on the New Republic, do you know how by any chance?
The Jedi had the same problem that Anakin had by episode 3 (he feared what may happen to Padmé). Yoda and the Council were so worried about the future that they didn’t keep their focus on the here and now. That’s one of the key reasons why they didn’t see the threat that was starring them right in the face, that being Palpatine. So later on when Yoda trains Luke he tells him that the future is always in motion, that it’s important to be patient and concentrate on the here and now. And Obi Wan wasn’t overly critical, and domineering towards Luke the way he was with Anakin. At least they had both learned from their mistakes.
Thank you for using that old republic comic. That was definitely one of the things to show the Jedi's evil, dark side that they pretend doesn't exist
At least you're unbiased when it comes to fictional politics
It's why this guy is the best
Extremist forget there are people on the otherside
No he is a far right nutjob
13:18 But at the end that ideology to only look at people as individuals doesn't work, when those individuals have a group identity and act as a group. You may say "hey, do your own thing, but an individual", but if they consider themselves part of XYZ Group and act according to the wishes of the hoard, you have to accept that they are part of that hoard and treat the threat accordingly, whether they identify as National Socialists, Communists, or Islamists.
@Cian McCabe Just because a social experiment is new, does not mean it is better. For example, Marxism was a new idea... disaster, and has killed more people than all world wars combined, and in fact can be argued was a catalyst for WW2. The drug culture hippy movement of the 60s was also a failed experiment, and would have led to the complete and total collapse of Western civilization had it been adopted widescale. This new hate-filled extreme leftist movement of intersectionalism is surely going to be another failed movement, as scapegoating a demographic be it Jews or "CIS white males" as the root of all evil has never worked out for anyone, and this idea that Stone Cold Steve Austin could overnight decide he was Stone Cold Stephanie Austin and compete against female athletes is asinine. Its fine to try new social experiments, but you MUST admit when a social experiment is a complete and utter failure and that's what the misandrist, racist, and glorification of mental disorder victim-olympics of 2019 has proven it is. The pendulum needs to swing back to normalcy and allow only the GOOD POSITIVE experiments that worked become part of the mainstream status quo.
But what about the Sith Genocide, where the Jedi attempted literal genocide against the Sith purebloods and turned Korriban into a tomb world until the Sith Empire could return and reclaim their home
Vitiate made most of that up. There was one originally but it was soft retcon to not have happened.
They fookin deserved it.
To be fair, Mace and the Jedi tried to arrest Palpatine first.
Palpatine started a war that probably killed hundreds of millions and he staged the entire war, including the creation of the slave army(clones),he deserved more than even death at that point
Traitor!!
Right? He worded it like the Jedi rolled up to assassinate him as the chancellor, and not arrest a possible (probable) sith Lord. Mace is totally going to still try and arrest him after he casually murdered three Jedi Masters, to be tried in front of the Senate he ran. And helped fill.
*Rrrigghhttt.* Sound logic.
@@CsSniper23 Agreed. He deserved to be stripped of the Force and left in a cold dark cell to rot.
On what charge? They never even gave him an opportunity to voluntarily lay down his emergency powers like he said he would
Whenever people talk about this I’d like to point them to another fictional series: Assassin’s Creed. Though not the exact same the Jedi had more in common with the Templars (control and obedience) while the Sith had more in common with the Assassins (individuality and free will). Only in AC, the assassins are the protagonists. By twisting narratives the same ideals can become good/evil.
I agree about the Jedi being like the Templars but the Sith are more like Nazis imo. Only a few really believe in and control their ideology the rest just are following out of fear and survival.
"Nothing is true, Everything is permitted" sounds like something the Sith would seriously vibe with
What about the time in legends that the Jedi practically exterminated the Sith species on their home world Coraban that wasn’t very peaceful was it
Sad Turtle Korriban
The sith tried to destroy the Old republic and they had enslaved many innocent alien species(not figuratively: they actually practiced slavery). As extreme as the Sith holocaust was, you can't say that they didn't have it coming. They were cruel and horrifying. The bad things that the jedi did pale in comparison to the sheer level of horror and depravity that the Sith civilisation had demonstrated.
yeah, the people in charge actually did something wrong not the average Sith Species, they have nothing to do with this and the wars, but the Jedi decided to glassed the entire Civilisations.
The sith we’re inherently evil they had no choice think about all the terrible things they would have done if they didn’t exterminate them
@Troy Goldberg but that doesn't make them evil. It makes them more twisted the more they seek for power. Both fueled by fear, hate, and pain, they would seek to gain power to prevent themselves from ever falling prey to anyone.
I believe for Revan they just wiped his mind, nothing like bashed his mind till he forgot. Whether or not memory wipes are moral is another discussion, but the description in the video paints a different image of events.
Considering Anikin was "bought" out of slavery and slavery was only illegal in the Republic, of which Tatooin was not a part, yes the Jedi were OK with slavery that was outside their jurisdiction. Not that it stopped them from screwing the slave owner over in retaliation or cheating (which I assume would be illegal there) to get the choice of slave he wanted.
Qui-Gon Jinn himself stated that he wasn't there to free slaves. He had a more important mission and was on the run with little to no resources available. Two Jedi (and possibly a commandeered security force) against a planet ruled by the Hutts who are in charge of the slave trade? Yeah, I don't see that happening.
Grand Admiral Thrawn Qui-Gon knew how to get shit done in the best way. Imagine how great Anakin couldve been if Qui-Gon had lived to train him
Qui-Gon and by extension Anakin would have joined Darth Tyrannis and this Separatists. That whole exchange with Obi-Wan wasn't bluster, he just couldn't accept that the Republic had fallen under Sith control (that he was a Sith as well was a detail that he left out and would have done the same with Qui-Gon).
Solanumtinkr to be fair an even smaller team was able to Kill Jabba and his entire entourage in Return of the Jedi.
David Kelly Darth Tyrannis turned to the dark side cause Qui-Gon died.
As for #1, the Jedi saw the Clones as expendable because the Jedi saw THEMSELVES as expendable. They were all ready to charge forward and die for the Republic, as was evidenced in that big free-for-all in the Geonosis Arena. So they expected the same thing from their own soldiers. Each Jedi is taught that self-sacrifice is the highest goal, to sacrifice oneself for the Force, for peace, and for justice. The Jedi expected the same from their Clone Troopers or even the Republic Troopers of the Old Republic Era. So that isn't a crime. This is just the Jedi being lemmings ready to die for the cause because that's how they were raised, so they treated their soldiers the same way. Most Jedi Commanders weren't heartless assholes, they weren't like the fucking Imperial Commissars from 40K, they were more like well-meaning naive Leeroy-Jenkins types who were ready to meet death on the battlefield and expected their men to be the same. Pong Krell doesn't count, because by the time of Umbara, he was already a Separatist agent, so he was just getting Clones killed on purpose so the Separatists can win.
Kamikaze attacks have been military strategy for thousands of years so the jedi really weren't doing anything that was unheard of but still it was kind of a dumb move to go all Leroy Jenkins as you said haha
Very true, the Jedi dogma caused most of the Jedi to behave like Androids rather than living beings, basically sealing their own feelings and not having any attachments.
Still the clone were literal slaves and the jedi didn't bother to see that
@@Player-pj9kt So were the Jedi, they were slaves to the Force.
@@HolyknightVader999 this does not excuse them from using slaves
#1:existing.
Darth Vader
#2. Still around after order 66
You’ve seen both sides Vader what’s better?
Generation Tech definitely dark side.
Oh Darth Wheezy I have it on good authority that your son is on his way to whoop on you until you change your mind.
Even after being reformed by Luke in the timeline where he isn't forced into a brooding emo?
"BALANCE IS KEY."
That's somehow how i see the Jedi and Sith in their own universe.
I told you the Jedi were evil!
Well not necessarily evil but like any human like organization they all have there dark sides that's not so good.
Well then you are lost!
Nothing in the Jedi Code requires that they not be evil. They have to be un-emotional and serene. Nice is not mentioned anywhere, as far as I can see. Universal love and compassion for all is the same as love and compassion for none.
@@richardkenan2891 Except that one is passive, while one is active.
Politics. If all people in politics had a light saber they would be attacking each other just like this. Lmao.
"Being a Sith isn't illegal"
Good point...
Yeah, I've been toying around with a What if? scenario, and the trial of Palpatine is a major roadblock. First obstacle: aren't the Jedi technically partaking in religious persecution?
Actually the Sith were the enemy the Republic and the Jedi but because the were believed to be extinct there was no law to enforce.
The advertisement for mr Rodger's neighborhood in the middle of jedi killing children was priceless.
J Bottero lmao what
0:37 I like how this channel exist within the universe in the multiverse and not the fictional one in my universe
It's better to be Grey Jedi.
Grey Jedi is love, Grey Jedi is life. 😏
I fully agree. In order to be truly free, one must neither be a slave to the light nor the darkness.
Dustwarewolf 55: Very true, I'll be my profile pic that is basically Space Dante.
Grey jedi is the true good, not regular jedi, or sith. The Grey jedi allow you to use force choke without being despised.The Grey jedi believe in you.
To bring balance to force there must be no light or dark
+Valley L "The Grey jedi allow you to use force choke without being despised."
..... so Gray Jedi are into S&M?
That was a few things that have been worse than some of listed by You:
1) The genocide of the sith species
2) Bombardment of Mandalor
3) Jedi Shadows - trained to destroy anything and everything connected with the Sith and their followers, and also to track down and (in some cases) even kill wild force users or fellow Jedi if they (in the opinion of that particular Jedi Shadow) were tempted by the dark side.
4) And of course, the expulsion of Ahsoka from the Jedi Order, so as not to lose the republic's support in the war.
They bombarded Mandalor? No wonder why the natives of the planet have a vendetta against Jedi.
That’s the best video yet. I love how you discuss matters relating to our beloved Galaxy Far Far Away as if those characters and events existed in our presently perceived reality. In life I often run to that Galaxy to hide and relax. The riggers and trails of this world make those little vacations all the more refreshing. So I am very entertained when I watch one of your videos because of your realistic matter of fact dissertation of events or characters that existed in our vacation galaxy. Thank you for all the hard work and I prefer you over British Ben. I feel like he owns a white panel van “free candy” spray painted on the side. I fear he is Vong in disguise. He frightens me.
Talking Whiskey Allen’s brilliant and Ben has grown on me too! Literally the best of TH-cam 😊👍
datathunderstorm I’m only joking. I like Ben, he’s great. I like his energy.
“All the children he’s fathered out of wedlock” .... baby yoda :O
Thought the exact same thing.
I mean since baby Yoda is 50 years old Yoda could have done the deed while in exile
The New Jedi Order from Legends managed to avoid most of the pitfalls of the old Jedi Order, and even managed to survive one of their number turning to the Dark Side on several occasions, and weathered the Yuuzhan Vong War, when every other faction was torn apart and mashed back together.
Generation Tech I think you would agree that there a few jedi that stood out above the rest of the order that showed great compassion for the clones they commanded. Yoda, kit fisto, mace windu, plo koon, and of course obi wan and anakin plus asoka. Each of these masters, throughout the main series but also through the cannons showed true feelings they had in battle and down time. And after watching this video I love how you tie everything in together. Keep up the neutral position I love it and frankly describes how I view everything.
So asokha was a preteen commander who in a wreakless attack got several clone pilots killed. Anakin then punished like she has taken the family car for a spin. Let's not forget these clones are growth accelerated but still human so these technically child slave soldier which are thrown about by a child like toys to be broken.
#order66wasthefix
She had no combat experience well most Jedi didn’t at that time
Essentially, she was a 14 year old leading an army of 10 year olds in a war that was orchestrated by a secret Sith Lord that the Jedi were too arrogant to sense sitting right in from to them
We're just clones sir, we're meant to be expendable.
Not to me.
She felt bad for what happened to her troops
"HE'S TOO POWERFUL TO BE LEFT ALIVE!"
...He aint wrong.
That was the same argument that Palpypie made about Dooku after Anakin murdered him. Tell me, what is the difference between the two orders?
Ones mace Windu, a powerful force user who has proven time and time again he won’t turn to the dark side, and one was palpating, a chancellor who had long served his term and was EXTREMELY suspicious
@@ianwildermuth2610 and just killed three Jedi masters
I’m still convinced that the Jedi are NOT evil. However, very often throughout their history, they were something that can be just as bad as being “evil”: Being dogmatic. When they believe their way as it is is the ONLY correct path, and refuse to adapt, evolve, and/or reform to meet the needs of the changing times, it will ALWAYS create more problems than solutions for the Galaxy. This is why Luke Skywalker (the TRUE Luke Skywalker from the EU/Legends, and my personal headcanon) worked so hard to completely restructure and reorganize the Jedi Order after Episode VI. If he felt that a practice/tradition of theirs caused more harm than good, both for the Galaxy and for the Order itself, he did what previous generations of Jedi SHOULD have done: He ABOLISHED it!
I just realized that in between the “E” and “C” on his shirt there is a millennium falcon silhouette.
2018: GT - "The Jedi Secret Archives contains a list of the children Yoda has fathered out of wedlock."
2019: The Mandalorian - "So, here's a baby Yoda who was born 50 years ago, during the height of the Jedi Order..."
Lost me at comparing 5 highly accomplished seers having a vision of the future to you having nightmares after eating a bad taco.
0:49 "impossible, perhaps the archives are incomplete"
Allen, I love how you continue to question, challenge & expose the Jedi order! At the end of the day, Jedi & Sith are just two sides of the exact same coin!
I would put the role the Jedi played in the genocide against the people of the Sith after the Great Hyperspace War on the first place. It is not eactly the same as their hate towards the order of the Sith, since in that case the Jedi accepted and in part executed a policy of the Old Republic against a whole species (or more than one) on several planets. Just because they saw a strong connection between them and the dark side (but I guess most of the victims where by far not force-sensitive enough to ever become a dark foce user). It was the Republic who started this genocide, but the Jedi where part of it.
Had they used the knowledge of the ancient Sith priests to understand the dark side better than living the dream to exterminate it once and for all, maybe some of the later wars could have been avoided.
Exactly! Prime example! If the Jedi got that message, and understood it, that they needed to achieve true balance instead of this badly-warped one-sided shit view millenia ago, billions of lives would not have been lost and the biggest wars to have been conceived of (the Sith Empire, the Hyperspace Wars, the list goes on.) never would have happened in the first place! Also when that weapon went off, didn't it birth Darth Nillius?
Omg, when he said: "Steve", I thought he was talking directly to me 😂
This personifies Palestine’s line in the opera scene of episode III, “good is a point of view.”
In another sith origin story, the sith were originally a species, that such as the dathomirians or the rakata had a very special connection to the dark side. When a group of exciled dark jedi came to their planet, Korriban, they trained the sith in the dark side and they eventually created an empire. After a war and defeat with the republic the jedi decided the sith were too dangerous, so they bassically made a sith version of order 66, known as the sith holocaust. The few escaping sith created the sith order and the second sith empire.
So I love your videos and have been watching them for a while and think they are really informative and well edited with really good information but I just don't agree with most of your points personally I argue the jedi have done bad stuff ie. the sith holocaust but many of the things you argue are bad I would argue aren't.
1. I get your point with this one however I mean can you blame the jedi for trying to win a war against the sith empire thats like complaining about some of the bad stuff the UK did during WW2 but they did that in order to defeat hitler I believe its justified in the circumstances and outside of wartime the jedi didn't do this so I feel its not a real issue with the jedi.
2. Thats awful can't really argue with that one but tbh thats an issue with individuals not the order as a whole.
3. Thats just a mistake one individual made and I mean thats just a mistake I don't think you can blame the jedi as a whole for it
4. Again I understand for this one but its again during a time of war and so in the circumstances it makes sense to try and get information from Revan in order to be able to stop the war going on so long
5. Yeah the jedi became more trapped in their ways and extreme but literally all the sith wars were started by an attack by the sith and so while the jedi's inability to compromise caused the wars you are massively underplaying the role of the sith in these wars.
6. This isn't really an issue I mean to start with Palpatine purposely got the jedi more involved in politics to try and show the republic the jedi were interfering in politics. Also Windu went there to arrest Palpatine not to kill him he said twice you are under arrest and its only after Palpatine tries to kill him again that windu decides to kill him and Palpatine had effective control over most of the senate and the judicial system so impeachment wouldn't have really worked.
7. Qui gon did attempt to free Shmii too anyway but he couldn't manage it and anyway tattooine isn't part of the republic and so slavery isn't illegal and the jedi have no jurisdiction there anyway.
8. Very odd argument the republic were told a few years later and the argument that the jedi would have been more prepared is not true as it wasn't till the last days of the republic that the jedi discovered that palpatine was a sith and as you said earlier being a sith isn't a crime so why would the republic help arrest Palpatine.
9. Yeah this is true and some of the stuff the jedi did was awful namely the sith holocaust and they got away with it but in your example of anakin and the CIS you argue it would be believed to be a warcrime well I don't think it would be no living beings died as a result of his actions unless you include b1 battle droids and they helped free a planet that was being horribly repressed by the CIS your example of ezra bridger also is taken from a freedom fighter helping to free a planet being repressed by the empire you're not being objective as you brand him as a terrorist while that is what the empire would call him it is not what he was he believed he was helping free people from oppression and these events therefore are not as black and white as you paint them especially during times of war. Most of your examples are taken from times of war where many of their actions are justified in order to free planets and people from repressive regimes and murderous dictatorships.
10. This one is true and imo the jedi never should have become generals in an army as windu says to palpatine at the start of attack of the clones "we're not soldiers" however many of the jedi did have close relationships with clones and seemed hurt when they died and furthermore yoda himself argued that the clones were living beings who weren't just robots to be chucked into war as seen in the clone wars tv show. Some of the jedi generals cared little for the clone soldiers under their command but some of these were revealed to be under the influence of the sith and so that again is not an issue with the jedi.
They commited horible crimes during peace time. Mandalorian Excision.
you sir have a very comprehensive argument and raised many a good point. Not to mention Generation tech is in itself a very biased source for such things
Allen Bettis you forget they have existed for 10,000s of years and will make mistakes along the way they aren’t saints they are people who try to act like saints
After this video and hearing about the covenant I just realize that, from everytime a Jedi had a force vision, their actions towards that vision is the detonator of that vision actully happening.
They brought ajunta pall when he was born and he exhiles and formed the sith order with the red sith becoming the first darklord
The Jedi Order could never have gotten so huge without taxpayer money. However Palpatine was able to argue that the Jedi were an elite monastic order capable of overthrowing the government.
You're mistaken in thinking that the Jedi are above the laws. While they do have several authoritative powers granted by the Chancellor, they can only act within their assigned jurisdiction within the Republic. Qui-Gon had absolutely no authority to just take a Slave off of a planet where slavery is legal. He only took Anakin after securing his freedom, and after getting consent from his Mother, and because he felt compelled to by the Force. And even if he did abscond with Shmi, what then? She wouldn't be allowed to stay at the Temple, and without any funds of her own she would more than likely live in a state of poverty on the streets of Coruscant. At least under Watto she had a home and the promise of being fed everyday.
What was Palpatine guilty of? He seized control of the Republic Senate by orchestrating and facilitating the kidnapping of the Queen of Naboo by means of an illegal invasion. The invasion which led to the death of probably millions of people and kicked off a three year war with an illegal clone army that caused more death and destruction. And to top that he refused to give up the temporary special power granted to him once the war he created ended. He's a complete war criminal and the reality is the Sith were the enemies of the Republic and the Jedi which is why he hid his true identity.
Why is the genocide of all sentient individuals in the aftermath of the Great Hyperspace War not included as the number one?
The difference between your funky dreams and force visions is that force visions are real. In the case of the Jedi Covenant the very attempt to prevent their vision from coming to fruition was what brought it to fruition.
HEY! This is Steve and I have been a subscriber for a while now. Don't guilt trip the innocent, Mom...
Fine!
Stephen Gasaway hey Steve, how's life?
If I remember correctly, Toydarians like Watto are immune to Jedi mind control
If the Jedi were responsible for your beard it would be on the list.
10:24 “when Obi-wan Kenobi and Qui-gon Jin run into Darth Maul...” *epic opening encounter to Battle of the Fates whilst 80s synth pop plays in the background with Allen’s analysis*!
This is why I love Generation Tech
What about when they committed mass genocide on the sith species (not just the men but the women and children too)
Also, 4:34 you had a dream about Leia kissing Chewbacca. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL😂😂🤣🤣😂😂 I find that HILARIOUS.
I can see how some of these things can be portrayed as bad from a certain point of view.
Love the synthwave tunes. At 5:44 I had to pause the video to make sure I didn't leave my music on in another tab! What is the songs you're using? Otherwise, great video, and I learned quite a bit!
"objectve" "unbiased" i love my imperial holo net
Obi wan slicing the pirates hand off could be considered self defense
Well for #6 technically owning sith artifacts and practicing sith teachings is illegal in the republic is dates back before the russan reformation
Hey! Where was the Generation Tech “End Theme Tune”..?!! I was looking forward to that, to complete another outstanding GenTech video 😉👍
Join The Sith Empire And The Sith Order !, You Have More Freedom !
The sith is death
Sith=freedom
False u would probably get killed by another sith
@@entername9179 only if the rule of 2 is in order. In the old republic youd be fine
@@villiannewyork Absolutely. All hail to Darth Marr, our one and only leader!
Just saying, jedi visions have a habit of being accurate more times than not but i remember the quote "A person often meets his destiny on the road he took to avoid it.
"
Can you do a what if Grand Moff Tarkin ran america please?
He speaks British English and is noticeably English,so....
We're seeing it now with the GOP
CHRIS REYNOLDS ok shill
@@chrisrey9644 We would be getting ships designed for ship to ship combat and a terror doctrine rather than mobile warfare doctrine we have an emphasis on combined arms.
@@SalvationIsInChristAlone 🖕
You DO realize that the Jedi tried to depose/kill Palpatine not just for being a Sith Lord but because he plunged the galaxy into the Clone Wars that killed trillions of beings and devastated the galaxy all so he could gain the power he needed to have the Jedi wiped out and turn the Republic into the Empire.
Besides, Palpatine by then controlled the Senate AND the Courts so if the Jedi told them "Chancellor Palpatine's a Sith Lord who tricked everyone into fighting each other in the Clone Wars!", neither the Senate, the Courts or the public would believe them as Palpatine was too popular plus there was a lot of anti-Jedi sentiment by that point and they all would've said that the Jedi are accusing Palpatine of being a Sith Lord just to get him out of office and get the Republic back under their control.
Basically, the Jedi Order had pissed away their reputation in the last few decades before the Empire's rise with numerous bad decisions that made people think that they were corrupt and uncaring so they felt that to get rid of the Sith for good, they had to kill Palpatine themselves.
Well, the Jedi also had no evidence against Palpypie, nor did they actually charge him with a crime or give him a chance to lay down his emergency powers, they just attempted to kill him
Love this channel
Actually in the Revenge of the Sith novel the Jedi was gathering intelligence and investigating a Sith Lord within the Senate when count Dooku told Obi-Wan of Darth Sidious.
When Anakin told Mace of Palpatine being a Sith Lord that, fight with Darth Maul, and knowing that both Dooku and Ventres was associated with the Sith, yes they wasn't going to take any chances since they were sworn enemies.
1:05 I laughed so hard at that 😂
Detachment from people and emotions doesn't make you a psychopath but psychopaths might have these traits.
7:58 yes this was ridiculus some space wizards just come and kill me for using the dark side
I don't like the way they prohibit their Jedi to fall in love.
That's not a voluntary thing, you can't help falling in love.
I think the Jedi Did more bad than good.
Colin Skywalker111 MORE BAD THAN GOOD?! More like F***ed Up Beyond All Repair than worse!
Individuals, not the Jedi as a whole.
Colin Skywalker111 over time the Jedi lost touch with the populous
The most retarded shit i have ever read
Not really. If anything, compared to all the depraved atrocities that the Sith did, the stuff you see in this video is nothing but peanuts. The jedi are a necessary lesser evil.
What was Palpatine guilty of? He literally murdered 3 jedi knights in front of Mace Windu as well as tried to kill Mace Windu.
Windu wanted to arrest Palpatine to interrogate him... Palpatine answered by killing the jedi...
Of course he had reasons to kill Palpatine... considering Palpatine has lightning powers... it is more of a reason to kill him.
😂😂😂
“From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!”
“Than you really are lost!”
#vaderwasright
Hey love the music you are using around 6:35 is there a way I can liscent to it ? Do you have a link?
what's the music playing in the background in the beginning?
Yoda treated the clones as individuals
Great video the jedi have done a lot of bad. This is an awesome channel.
Individuals, not the Jedi as a whole.
The Sith are worst. Remember Alderaan?
Same it was one sith
I admire the sith so much
Generation tech:
Palpatine: you'll be my propaganda minister from now on
Alan Palpatine controlled the courts and the confederacy and he kept all his holo messages with dooku saved on his computer.
Ah, but the Jedi didn't have any evidence of Palpypie's crimes, so the 'arrest' was illegal
Who, pray tell, is "Alan Palpatine"-?
4:50 name of track playing in background please?
Ummm you done messed up. Wato was immune to Jedi persuasion. Seriously, did you watch the movie
You just gained a subbed👍🏼 really enjoyed how you presented the content and stayed on point until the subject was done, instead of spouting nonsense like most youtubers do. Awesome work man, hope to see more videos soon!
Your 5th point is actually wrong. The Sith didnt start with exiled jedi at all. The sith are actually a race at first, power hungry, infighting dark side users for millenia before the exiled jedi arrive at their home world and start inbreeding with them, creating the modern sith a mere 7000 years before the main story.
And some of the arguments you make about the jedi not taking the judicial way are just... weird to me. Just like saying Stauffenberg was a bad person because he took an extrajudicial way trying to dispose of hitler. Fact of the matter is, the jedi DID want to go the judicial round and only imprison palpatine for a trial, and mace windu only tried to kill him after he had revealed himself to be a very powerful threat & sith beyond any doubt.
No, Mace drew and activated his lightsaber on a SUSPECTED threat, or did you forget that he didn't actually trust Anakin at that point? He simply attempted to arrest him without laying a single charge against him or giving him a chance to do as he said and lay down his emergency powers. That is a coup, not an arrest
#9 doesn't work.
Ezra has Jedi training from a former Padawan - not a Jedi Knight or even a Master.
Not to mention that taking out the majority of Imperials on Lothal in one action was less of a massacre and more of a strategic victory as the rebels weren't on an even playing field.
It's the same with both Death Stars.
Yo gt what's up!
Heyo
These are all interesting theories, but I disagree with a lot of them.
Kreia believed that the Jedi didn't really brainwash Revan. They had simply erased the affects of the Dark Side and restored him to his original persona: Someone who would fight to protect others.
What was Palpatine guilty of? A lot of things!
He managed to stay in Office long after his term had expired. Yes, the Senate demanded he remain, but it was still unconstitutional.
There were even a lot of Senators that doubted the Chancellor's true intentions. He said he would give up his emergency powers after the crisis abated. But he didn't. And when 2000 senators wrote a petition demanding this, he just viewed them as traitors. Eventually he disbanded the Senate.
And that was just before the Rebellion.
Besides, Anakin was the one who told Mace Windu that Palpatine was a Sith Lord. He even offered to help arrest him.
And in Episode 1, Qui-gon DID want to free Shmi, but he couldn't. And he couldn't just knock out Watto, because Shmi would still have the transmitter in her body. If they took her away, then Watto, or anyone else could have just activated it and blown them up. And Shmi would have died anyway.
Sorry, but due to the changing laws of the Republic, Palpypie's extended term wasn't illegal, just unprecedented. Also, the Jedi didn't give him a chance to lay down his emergency powers following the death of Grievous, which was Palpypie's own definition of the end of the crisis.
@@DavidbarZeus1 And yet, even after the end of the Clone Wars and the destruction of the Jedi Order, he still didn't give up his emergency powers.
Watching this video I`m looking at the Jedi in a different light now.
How could anything be worse than that clip of yoda dancing. That in and of itself should be a war crime
Of course, they have done terrible things, they're terrible people. For goodness sake, the Jedi are evil!😎😉😁😂😗🤣 Like the Sith, the Jedi also dealt in absolutes. Grey Jedi forever! In Generation Tech We Trust 😉
Can somebody please tell me what's the name of the song used at 4:49