I think gearboxes are the future and one thing that bummed me out is everyone hates grip shift so they aren't selling well but effigear gearboxes have been using a sram trigger shift for a long time !!!! So if your looking to change that look into effigear ! And awesome video very thorough !
I admit I hate grip shift, just a personal choice. Effigear and Cavalerie bikes are pretty sweet but expensive. No carbon options exist with Effigear gearboxes - too bad as this would be awesome. If Deviate bikes could do an Effigear option . . .
RedJoker because you have to move your hands, or stay on the grip and risk accidentally shifting. Also, you're literally changing your grip twisting your wrist, while you dont with a lever/trigger. All you move is one finger so the rest of the hand keeps a firm grip in optimal position (whatever that is in a given situation)
@@seansutherland6270 does not matter right? you can click those gears wit your shifter but it wont shift as along as you are putting power on pedals, then when you backpeddal a bit all the gears change instantly.
@RedJoker I dont like the grip shift on a mtb because when I am riding a techy downhill at a decent speed i can shift it accidentally. With my pinion system I havnt had as much of a problem due to it not liking shifting while pedaling, but it does still happen every now and then and can be dangerous depending on where you are
Completely off topic but your microphone and audio settings are spot on. I actually had to take off my headphones to make sure I wasn't somehow listening through my speakers. Even my partner said "wow" when I put the headphones on his head haha.
Thanks for the review of the Pinion! I am fascinated by this system and am contemplating buying a bike which features it. Not a whole lot being said about it still. This was super useful and if I get one I will revisit your vids on oil and cable changes. I think this system is awesome and if people care so much about weight, lose 2 lbs on your body!! Oh and gates belt combo is perfect!
Check out the hardtail 600x from Priority Bicycles at www.prioritybicycles.com/products/600x. They are currently offering a pre-ordering discount of $500 if you reserve your bike now. The bike ships in the first quarter of 2021.
Thanks Ethan for your info. I decided to order a bike with the P12 Gearbox. Nothing as good as your bike. But for me it should be okay. I can tell from your riding video's you really put your bike through some epic runs. Wish I had those Rocky Mountain Highs.
Over a year later and still Your long term review is the only one on YT. Pinion has few more manufacturers now, but number of logos is not corresponding to number of bikes as there is quite a few discontinued models and some custom builders with no models etc. Would be awesome If you could give another report on durability. Thanks for the video.
I took my reeb and cut and welded a derailleur hanger and put a sram eagle on the rear. Now I have a pinion /eagle and it has a 1200 gear range. It's pretty fun to ride, and I haven't been able to max it yet, even after hitting 57 bombing a giant hill
I am in agreement that a Pinion bike would be infinitely preferable to a derailleur setup. Right now in the UK where I live, the level of mud on the trails I ride in the winter is just obscene, and mudguards or not it all gets into my shifter cables and derailleur pivots and chain and so on. At the moment I am struggling to get my eagle 12 speed to shift from gear 1 to 2 after a few hundreds of miles of extreme mud since I got the system. Mud seems to work its way into the cable housing via the cable pulley and wreaks havoc on my shifting. I absolutely long for a fully enclosed alternative that is impervious to the filth, but sadly this is way out of my price range for now and gearing aside, my bike is better for me than any pinion bike I have seen and has cost me probably about a third as much as the pinion alternative. I will check back in 5 years and see if this tech comes down to a sane price point for the 18 speed model as a complete bike with drop bars that can take mtb tyres.
The point of gearboxes is reliability/ease of maintenance but I think those two things are often not the concern of high-cost component buyers -- this is why they are usually confined to bikepacking. Someone who pays like 2 grand on a gearbox is going to want the highest performance; and they have the money to keep it maintained at a bike shop. A gearbox's "performance" is to never break down, but how many times has your derailleur done that? Enough to get a gearbox more expensive than most people's bikes while removing another thousand worth of weight-savings? Only if you're in the wop wops. Most of the time I find derailleurs fail/are a pain in the ass when they are not maintained properly. These are not the people who will be buying gearboxes.
I'd beg to differ. Where I ride a completely clean, perfectly prepared bike rides like trash after just 2hrs of riding in what passes as favourable winter conditions. If i don't clean and lube it right after the ride, the chain will start to rust and it will be double the pain to get it clean. Maybe if I had a bicycle mechanic on retainer that would be ok, but for anyone without one, a belt drive + gearbox combo is a perfect autumn/winter bike thing.
Subjective answer: I can't tell any difference between the pinion and a cassette/chain. I've seen comparisons in the past that said the pinion is a small percentage less efficient.
Thanks for the video I’ve been researching this idea of a hardtail with pinion for about a year. Seems almost impossible to find a manufacturer- Especially in North America that carries a pinion bike. I found a local bike store that makes custom bikes, including a few with pinion. But of course pinion is already expensive- add custom to the picture and you have an costly mtb. My question is; where did you get this bike or where can I find it?! Thanks again for the video- practical info for the average rider! Look forward to hear from you! 👍 ps - I live in Ontario Canada 🇨🇦
Hey Kevin! Glad to hear it helped. I got mine from Reeb, in Longmont, CO. Their website (reebcycles.com) has a lot of info, but I'd give them a call. I worked with Tim to get mine built. They do steel and ti, and can do custom anything on request, as far as I know. I also looked at Domahidy/Viral Designs here in CO. Another good resource is Pinion's list of manufacturers pinion.eu/en/bicycle-manufacturers/ I spent quite a bit of time going through the websites, and a lot are in German, so Chrome's translator is nice. My experience is that you can email them in English without a problem. I know that some of the companys will export to the US/Canada, because I've met people here riding German bikes with Pinion. I'm not an expert with shipping overseas, but I've both bought and sold bikes out of the US and never ran into any problems. Another note I'll add is that a couple companies DO make carbon mtb frames with Pinion...Olsen and Quantor are the 2 that come to mind immediately. Hope that helps!!!
Another thing.... bikeman.com sells Pinion gearboxes by themselves if you you need that! I've seen Ti frames on Alibaba.com that are supposed to take Pinions (idk the construction quality)...for what it's worth.
Ethan Blagg dude thanks for the link , over a year now Iv emailed several bike builders and not one of them were interested in selling me a box . Iv got a bullitt cargo bike I'd love to pimp out with the pinion gearbox , l think now it could be doable .
Great review. Could you comment more on the gear steps of 17%? Would you prefer them to be more narrow. Or could they be whider? I can not decide between a Speedhub and this p1.12
The steps are "normal". At one point I had done a comparison of Pinion to a 1x11 system. If I recall, 1x11 is not as consistent in step size, but the steps are smaller. I would look at the P1.18 if you want smaller steps, though it is a bit heavier.
Thx for the Review. I have a 1.18 Pinion on a Pilot titanium bike. Question: which grips are you using on the schifter side? Did you buy them like this of modified them? Ik like to zwitch from worde ergonomie grips, to smaller grips, but don’t want to cut open ESI’s each time. And there is only a limited offer of ½ grips for shifters, using bolts.
Hi Pieter, I modified some Ergon grips with a utility knife. It took some work, but was worth having bolt on grips in my opinion. I couldn't find any bolt on grips that would fit with the pinion shifter.
Curious, how did you mount the gates cog on your 350? My next bike will be gates with a pinion, and I'd like to take my 350 wheels over. Pinion, belt, and a star ratchet freehub would be a very reliable bikepacking drive train.
I just used a bunch of freehub spacers, and centered it with the "chainline". It works pretty well, although I would rather have a single speed hub just to avoid spacers.
Great review. I am thinking of getting one also. Is the shifting pretty smooth.? I noticed one of your video's had you installing shifting cables, did they break?
Hi there, I live over in Scotland. And I've been watching Ryan Duzer regarding this kind of bike me by Reeb. I would love to own belt drive with a pinion gearbox, this would come in very handy that the roads and the terrain we have. We don't have that kind of bike over here yet, what would the best way to achieve this. We also have a cycling to work scheme, where you can purchase a bike from certain bike shops up to a certain amount of ££'s, and this comes of you wage a month before tax. Could you help. Many thanks Brian 👍🤩
@@ethanblagg many thanks for your help. I've just ordered up a bike from CUBE this is a Pro Travel Hybrid which has a belt drive, but it doesn't have the inclosed gearbox. The gears on this bike are in the hub of the wheel, 8 gears. But very close to the priority bike.
Hello Ethan, Thank you for putting these videos here. Very informative. I am new to this gear hub. The dealer was trying to hard sell the C1.12 vs the P1.18/12. Is it possible for you to explain the differences as a comment here? Thank you! The delivery times are crazy delayed. I hope to finalise the bike and join the club. Thank you!
So....this bike was stolen, and I have a C1.12 arriving soon. It will be awhile before I'm able to ride on it, but yeah I think I'll make a review. My understanding at this point is that it is ligher due to a different shell material. It also has a slightly different access to the shift cables on the gearbox (pressed in, not bolted on). Not sure about other differences.
With the belt drive is there a problem with getting the tension right on the belt drive after changing the rear tire say after a flat? Maybe create a video so others can see how its done. Oh one other thing you never mention how much it costs for a bike like this? Thanks for the video.
No it's pretty easy. They make an app that works well, or you can get a tool to mechanically measure tension. I'll definitely make a video on those! I'm making a list of vid ideas, so I appreciate the suggestions!
Do you find that the Pinion is (significantly) MORE DIFFICULT to pedal than a CASSETTE system (or the Rohloff)? Is Pinion RELIABLE enough long term, compared to other transmissions you've ridden?
I can't tell a difference between cassette and the pinion as far as difficulty. They feel the same. Haven't ridden rohloff more than a test ride, so can't comment on that. I've had no reliability issues, but also haven't been putting in many miles due to priorities aside from riding.
You indicate that maintenance is limited to oil change once a year. I own a P1.18 and in the manual it says that every 500 km the cable box should be opened and the planetary gears cleaned and greased. Is this a mistake in the manual since you are ignoring it? I hope so because my motivation was as maintenance free as possible.
Ha ha no I am not correct over the manual. But I don’t think you need to do that every 500km. How do you say open it up and see what it looks like when you get to that point. Certainly wouldn’t hurt to do it that often, I just think it’ll probably run fine without
@@ethanblagg This was Pinion's reply: "this is a recommendation from us. Since this area is not sealed, depending on the usage location, this area can become more quickly dirty. However, the decision is up to the user."
No regrets! I don't ride as much as I would like due to work/family, but still love it. Changing oil, and making sure cables are adjusted for shifting are the main maintenance for me. Pulling the rear wheel off/on is a notable part of any tire maintenance, but still worth it. I think the build all in all was around $6k, with frame and pinion around $3500. Hard to say because I was working at a shop, had discounts, built it slowly, and had a lot of the parts from old bikes.
Ethan Blagg thanks for the review Ethan, Priority bikes are putting the Pinion on their 600 model, $2200. would like to have one for touring. A lot less than a Co- Motion for 5k
+Jack Беstial yes, but the difference is minimal. Here's a great article about that... www.cyclingnews.com/features/chain-drive-or-belt-drive-whos-faster/
thanks. good info. i knew you have thought through your decision on going belt. i only based my comment on statistics of belt, shaft, and chain on motorcycles.
articles I've read say it eats up 2-4watts more than a really clean lubed chain without cross-chaining(hello 1x). So nothing to worry about. You won't notice
It would seem like a cool idea, but I don't think it is a practical idea because bike geometry would be thrown WAY off (axis of rotation for pedals moved forward/down?), AND, for a: Press fit BB - you would have to prevent rotation, likely by bracing to the frame. Seems like trouble. Threaded BB - same rotation issue if the sides are reverse threaded. Otherwise maybe there's a solution, but see above! Maybe others have thought of better ideas, but I don't think it is viable. Plus I'm certain warranties would be voided all around.
@@ethanblagg you want to mount the grarbox to all existing frames. So no geomeyry is changed. And the stress if I understand you corectly eould not be that big of sn issue
+Pillokun but that would significantly throw off the bikes geometry. Probably not what you want to do if you're spending a pretty penny on the gearbox! Maybe you do, though :)
ye, a big problem of derailleurs is that it often runs diagonal to the sprockets which essentially bends it and makes the links weaker allowing for more slack/slip and wears out the sprockets, which then have to be replaced as well..
It is harder to get the wheel off then on, since you are dealing essentially a single speed type system when removing the wheel. But then changing the tire is the same.
Frame and gearbox were $3500, I estimated the entire build was around $6000. I built it slowly and had a lot of the parts already, so hard to put a specific number.
It's great. The range is bigger than derailleur systems, so no problem there, and the shifting is like normal. With the pinion you need to back off the torque when shifting, just like a derailleur. I rode up Pikes Peak (8k ft vertical gain) last summer no problems, and have ridden 3 mile climbs with consistent 10-15% gradients without issues as well. (At least no issues besides the pain of the climbs haha)
Lucky you, I only learned of pinion this year...but sadly only rich people can afford the pinion bikes, the 'lower' class will never experience it, only if they steal the bike...
I don't know why anyone would really want a carbon frame for something like mountain biking. Carbon frames can be severely damaged without looking damaged at all and it can happen in a single fall. I absolutely hate aluminium frames. I stick with good old chromoly steel.
Yeah steel is a good material. but carbon is light, and pretty durable as well, depending on how you ride. I won't ride carbon handlebars, cuz I've seen them break, but I'm ok with the frame cuz I've seen them break and the result isn't as dangerous - just expensive. Carbon can be repaired also.
I would love to say goodbye to the derailleur
Agreed!
I think gearboxes are the future and one thing that bummed me out is everyone hates grip shift so they aren't selling well but effigear gearboxes have been using a sram trigger shift for a long time !!!! So if your looking to change that look into effigear ! And awesome video very thorough !
I admit I hate grip shift, just a personal choice. Effigear and Cavalerie bikes are pretty sweet but expensive. No carbon options exist with Effigear gearboxes - too bad as this would be awesome. If Deviate bikes could do an Effigear option . . .
RedJoker because you have to move your hands, or stay on the grip and risk accidentally shifting. Also, you're literally changing your grip twisting your wrist, while you dont with a lever/trigger. All you move is one finger so the rest of the hand keeps a firm grip in optimal position (whatever that is in a given situation)
RedJoker trigger shifters give you more leverage so you can actually shift under power which is the gearbox's biggest flaw
@@seansutherland6270 does not matter right? you can click those gears wit your shifter but it wont shift as along as you are putting power on pedals, then when you backpeddal a bit all the gears change instantly.
@RedJoker I dont like the grip shift on a mtb because when I am riding a techy downhill at a decent speed i can shift it accidentally. With my pinion system I havnt had as much of a problem due to it not liking shifting while pedaling, but it does still happen every now and then and can be dangerous depending on where you are
Push button electronic shifter would be nice over the grip shift. Nice review.
I very much look forward to affordable quality pinion geared bicycles for the masses.
Priority Bicycles. You are welcome
Completely off topic but your microphone and audio settings are spot on. I actually had to take off my headphones to make sure I wasn't somehow listening through my speakers. Even my partner said "wow" when I put the headphones on his head haha.
Well thank you mucho! Just a Samsung Note 5 microphone.
Thanks for the review of the Pinion! I am fascinated by this system and am contemplating buying a bike which features it. Not a whole lot being said about it still. This was super useful and if I get one I will revisit your vids on oil and cable changes. I think this system is awesome and if people care so much about weight, lose 2 lbs on your body!! Oh and gates belt combo is perfect!
Check out the hardtail 600x from Priority Bicycles at www.prioritybicycles.com/products/600x. They are currently offering a pre-ordering discount of $500 if you reserve your bike now. The bike ships in the first quarter of 2021.
2lbs heavier but no chain lube no chain slap sealed system are you kidding me I'm sold.
2 lbs extra weight doesn't matter. All the advantages outweighs (pun intended) the disadvantages.
2lbs isn't a lot but this gearbox's RRP is like 2500NZD where I live and for that I'd rather not loose another 1000 worth of weight savings.
I've been using the Pinion P12 for over a year now too, see my recent video. I love it!
Thanks Ethan for your info. I decided to order a bike with the P12 Gearbox. Nothing as good as your bike. But for me it should be okay. I can tell from your riding video's you really put your bike through some epic runs. Wish I had those Rocky Mountain Highs.
+chris craft awesome! which bike did you order?
Hey Ethan. I do mainly touring so I found a German bike, Kalkhoff Endeavour. I got the 2017 model, can't wait to ride it. It is coming from Europe.
If you know anyone who might want an affordable bike with a Pinion, they are on sale at Jejames.com for $1650.
+chris craft very Cool!
Hello Chris; How much would you pay for customs duty? Are you shipping by DHL? Thanks
That's one cool old Olds/Buick u got there
Over a year later and still Your long term review is the only one on YT. Pinion has few more manufacturers now, but number of logos is not corresponding to number of bikes as there is quite a few discontinued models and some custom builders with no models etc. Would be awesome If you could give another report on durability. Thanks for the video.
Your video is amazing! You are so professional. You need a TV show brother. Im not in the business but but maybe u could give you ideas✊
I took my reeb and cut and welded a derailleur hanger and put a sram eagle on the rear. Now I have a pinion /eagle and it has a 1200 gear range. It's pretty fun to ride, and I haven't been able to max it yet, even after hitting 57 bombing a giant hill
H O L Y S H I T that is awesome.
Wieght and percentage of powerloss in the gear system due to friction is the downside, almost zero maintenance and bombproof stability is the upside.
I am in agreement that a Pinion bike would be infinitely preferable to a derailleur setup. Right now in the UK where I live, the level of mud on the trails I ride in the winter is just obscene, and mudguards or not it all gets into my shifter cables and derailleur pivots and chain and so on. At the moment I am struggling to get my eagle 12 speed to shift from gear 1 to 2 after a few hundreds of miles of extreme mud since I got the system. Mud seems to work its way into the cable housing via the cable pulley and wreaks havoc on my shifting. I absolutely long for a fully enclosed alternative that is impervious to the filth, but sadly this is way out of my price range for now and gearing aside, my bike is better for me than any pinion bike I have seen and has cost me probably about a third as much as the pinion alternative. I will check back in 5 years and see if this tech comes down to a sane price point for the 18 speed model as a complete bike with drop bars that can take mtb tyres.
Great review. Better than magazines trying to figure it out.
The point of gearboxes is reliability/ease of maintenance but I think those two things are often not the concern of high-cost component buyers -- this is why they are usually confined to bikepacking. Someone who pays like 2 grand on a gearbox is going to want the highest performance; and they have the money to keep it maintained at a bike shop. A gearbox's "performance" is to never break down, but how many times has your derailleur done that? Enough to get a gearbox more expensive than most people's bikes while removing another thousand worth of weight-savings? Only if you're in the wop wops.
Most of the time I find derailleurs fail/are a pain in the ass when they are not maintained properly. These are not the people who will be buying gearboxes.
I'd beg to differ. Where I ride a completely clean, perfectly prepared bike rides like trash after just 2hrs of riding in what passes as favourable winter conditions. If i don't clean and lube it right after the ride, the chain will start to rust and it will be double the pain to get it clean. Maybe if I had a bicycle mechanic on retainer that would be ok, but for anyone without one, a belt drive + gearbox combo is a perfect autumn/winter bike thing.
I still have no idea how much more efficient and effortless these gears are going up hills as opposed to a conventional setup.
Subjective answer: I can't tell any difference between the pinion and a cassette/chain. I've seen comparisons in the past that said the pinion is a small percentage less efficient.
Thanks for the review, and love the Hincapie water bottle. #RideHincapie
Thanks for the video
I’ve been researching this idea of a hardtail with pinion for about a year. Seems almost impossible to find a manufacturer- Especially in North America that carries a pinion bike. I found a local bike store that makes custom bikes, including a few with pinion. But of course pinion is already expensive- add custom to the picture and you have an costly mtb.
My question is; where did you get this bike or where can I find it?!
Thanks again for the video- practical info for the average rider! Look forward to hear from you! 👍 ps - I live in Ontario Canada 🇨🇦
Hey Kevin! Glad to hear it helped. I got mine from Reeb, in Longmont, CO. Their website (reebcycles.com) has a lot of info, but I'd give them a call. I worked with Tim to get mine built. They do steel and ti, and can do custom anything on request, as far as I know.
I also looked at Domahidy/Viral Designs here in CO. Another good resource is Pinion's list of manufacturers pinion.eu/en/bicycle-manufacturers/
I spent quite a bit of time going through the websites, and a lot are in German, so Chrome's translator is nice. My experience is that you can email them in English without a problem. I know that some of the companys will export to the US/Canada, because I've met people here riding German bikes with Pinion. I'm not an expert with shipping overseas, but I've both bought and sold bikes out of the US and never ran into any problems.
Another note I'll add is that a couple companies DO make carbon mtb frames with Pinion...Olsen and Quantor are the 2 that come to mind immediately.
Hope that helps!!!
Another thing.... bikeman.com sells Pinion gearboxes by themselves if you you need that! I've seen Ti frames on Alibaba.com that are supposed to take Pinions (idk the construction quality)...for what it's worth.
co-motion.com in the USA makes bicycles with pinion gearboxes.
Ethan Blagg dude thanks for the link , over a year now Iv emailed several bike builders and not one of them were interested in selling me a box .
Iv got a bullitt cargo bike I'd love to pimp out with the pinion gearbox , l think now it could be doable .
James at blacksheep is an early pioneer of this and makes custom frames
Great review. Could you comment more on the gear steps of 17%? Would you prefer them to be more narrow. Or could they be whider? I can not decide between a Speedhub and this p1.12
The steps are "normal". At one point I had done a comparison of Pinion to a 1x11 system. If I recall, 1x11 is not as consistent in step size, but the steps are smaller. I would look at the P1.18 if you want smaller steps, though it is a bit heavier.
Thx for the Review. I have a 1.18 Pinion on a Pilot titanium bike. Question: which grips are you using on the schifter side? Did you buy them like this of modified them? Ik like to zwitch from worde ergonomie grips, to smaller grips, but don’t want to cut open ESI’s each time. And there is only a limited offer of ½ grips for shifters, using bolts.
Hi Pieter, I modified some Ergon grips with a utility knife. It took some work, but was worth having bolt on grips in my opinion. I couldn't find any bolt on grips that would fit with the pinion shifter.
Thx Ethan. Was considering the same thing. Good to know converting a large grip into a smaller grip Will work.
Curious, how did you mount the gates cog on your 350? My next bike will be gates with a pinion, and I'd like to take my 350 wheels over. Pinion, belt, and a star ratchet freehub would be a very reliable bikepacking drive train.
I just used a bunch of freehub spacers, and centered it with the "chainline". It works pretty well, although I would rather have a single speed hub just to avoid spacers.
Good review! Thanks !
Great review. I am thinking of getting one also. Is the shifting pretty smooth.? I noticed one of your video's had you installing shifting cables, did they break?
+chris craft yeah the shifting is very smooth and happens instantly. I haven't had a cable break - just wanted to learn how to do it.
amazim system! Brasil never have this : (
Hi there,
I live over in Scotland.
And I've been watching Ryan Duzer regarding this kind of bike me by Reeb.
I would love to own belt drive with a pinion gearbox, this would come in very handy that the roads and the terrain we have.
We don't have that kind of bike over here yet, what would the best way to achieve this.
We also have a cycling to work scheme, where you can purchase a bike from certain bike shops up to a certain amount of ££'s, and this comes of you wage a month before tax.
Could you help.
Many thanks Brian 👍🤩
Hi, I bet you can get a bike like this. Look on pinion.eu/en/bicycle-manufacturers/ , there are many european brands, as it is a German company.
@@ethanblagg many thanks for your help.
I've just ordered up a bike from CUBE this is a Pro Travel Hybrid which has a belt drive, but it doesn't have the inclosed gearbox.
The gears on this bike are in the hub of the wheel, 8 gears. But very close to the priority bike.
Hello Ethan, Thank you for putting these videos here. Very informative. I am new to this gear hub. The dealer was trying to hard sell the C1.12 vs the P1.18/12. Is it possible for you to explain the differences as a comment here? Thank you! The delivery times are crazy delayed. I hope to finalise the bike and join the club. Thank you!
So....this bike was stolen, and I have a C1.12 arriving soon. It will be awhile before I'm able to ride on it, but yeah I think I'll make a review. My understanding at this point is that it is ligher due to a different shell material. It also has a slightly different access to the shift cables on the gearbox (pressed in, not bolted on). Not sure about other differences.
I would love to see a shifter for 23.8mm dropbars or Toulouse bars!
cinq.de/en/shifting-technology/434/shift-r-road-for-pinion?c=136
In pre-order, and 700 euros. But there you go, maybe.
With the belt drive is there a problem with getting the tension right on the belt drive after changing the rear tire say after a flat? Maybe create a video so others can see how its done. Oh one other thing you never mention how much it costs for a bike like this? Thanks for the video.
No it's pretty easy. They make an app that works well, or you can get a tool to mechanically measure tension. I'll definitely make a video on those! I'm making a list of vid ideas, so I appreciate the suggestions!
Did you say that a POWER METER cannot be attached to the Pinion? Also, can you get DIFFERENT SIZED crank and rear rings for easier climbs?
I'm sure you could attach a PM to it if one exists. I'm just not aware of one yet. And yes you can get different crank lengths and number of teeth
Do you find that the Pinion is (significantly) MORE DIFFICULT to pedal than a CASSETTE system (or the Rohloff)? Is Pinion RELIABLE enough long term, compared to other transmissions you've ridden?
I can't tell a difference between cassette and the pinion as far as difficulty. They feel the same. Haven't ridden rohloff more than a test ride, so can't comment on that. I've had no reliability issues, but also haven't been putting in many miles due to priorities aside from riding.
Ok do you do XC riding as it seems no one on TH-cam specialises in that 😥
You indicate that maintenance is limited to oil change once a year. I own a P1.18 and in the manual it says that every 500 km the cable box should be opened and the planetary gears cleaned and greased. Is this a mistake in the manual since you are ignoring it? I hope so because my motivation was as maintenance free as possible.
Ha ha no I am not correct over the manual. But I don’t think you need to do that every 500km. How do you say open it up and see what it looks like when you get to that point. Certainly wouldn’t hurt to do it that often, I just think it’ll probably run fine without
@@ethanblagg I am going to ask Pinion about this because as far as I can see nobody is doing that.
@netional5154 yeah that’s a good idea. Honestly regreasing that thing is super easy so it’s not a big deal even if you meet the spec.
@@ethanblagg This was Pinion's reply: "this is a recommendation from us. Since this area is not sealed, depending on the usage location, this area can become more quickly dirty. However, the decision is up to the user."
Engagement ??? What hubs?
Couldn't care less about your pump. What is it like to use the gears?
So, almost 3 years later. Any regrets? Total cost of build?
No regrets! I don't ride as much as I would like due to work/family, but still love it. Changing oil, and making sure cables are adjusted for shifting are the main maintenance for me. Pulling the rear wheel off/on is a notable part of any tire maintenance, but still worth it.
I think the build all in all was around $6k, with frame and pinion around $3500. Hard to say because I was working at a shop, had discounts, built it slowly, and had a lot of the parts from old bikes.
Tout terrain and other companies make shifters for the pinion gearbox
I've seen talk of it, but nothing definitive.... does rohloff have the same pull ratios as pinion, so the shifters are interchangeable?
Prototype: tout-terrain.blogspot.com/2017/03/bikepacking-concept-bike-with-cinq.html
Ethan Blagg thanks for the review Ethan, Priority bikes are putting the Pinion on their 600 model, $2200. would like to have one for touring. A lot less than a Co- Motion for 5k
You didn't mention FRICTION of the gearbox compared with derailleur.
Good point. Once the gearbox is broken in, it "feels" pretty much the same I think. Maybe I'll have to think abou how to measure this.
Obsessed with carbon much?
Yes, I am, unashamedly.
Where do you find bikes in the US that offer the Pinion gearbox options?
Nicolai makes frames with gearboxes, but i dont know if they ship to the US. Zerode as well and i think they ship to the US.
is it not chains transmit power more efficiently than belts?
+Jack Беstial yes, but the difference is minimal. Here's a great article about that...
www.cyclingnews.com/features/chain-drive-or-belt-drive-whos-faster/
+Jack Беstial a quote from that article... "These results show the belt becomes more efficient above 208 watts."
thanks. good info. i knew you have thought through your decision on going belt. i only based my comment on statistics of belt, shaft, and chain on motorcycles.
Jack Беstial that makes sense. Honestly the biggest reason was the lesser maintenance on a belt.
articles I've read say it eats up 2-4watts more than a really clean lubed chain without cross-chaining(hello 1x). So nothing to worry about. You won't notice
Ok, some cost comparisons might have helped, but otherwise , good overview
that bike you would be looking at about $6500 ….$7500
They should have made a bolt on version for "normal" frames, the only issue I have with the pinion gearbox system.
How would you bolt the gearbox on to a normal frame? The gearbox sits where the seat tube, down tube and bottom bracket meet.
@@TommyShlong simple, you bolt it in the triangle where it attaches to te seat tube and downtube.
It would seem like a cool idea, but I don't think it is a practical idea because bike geometry would be thrown WAY off (axis of rotation for pedals moved forward/down?), AND, for a:
Press fit BB - you would have to prevent rotation, likely by bracing to the frame. Seems like trouble.
Threaded BB - same rotation issue if the sides are reverse threaded. Otherwise maybe there's a solution, but see above!
Maybe others have thought of better ideas, but I don't think it is viable. Plus I'm certain warranties would be voided all around.
@@ethanblagg you want to mount the grarbox to all existing frames. So no geomeyry is changed. And the stress if I understand you corectly eould not be that big of sn issue
+Pillokun but that would significantly throw off the bikes geometry. Probably not what you want to do if you're spending a pretty penny on the gearbox! Maybe you do, though :)
Is this the future of cycling though?
Hell yeah man!!! ha. I don't know but I'm not going back to derailleurs
it should be but there is a huge industry behind the wear and tear item like cassettes. They'd probably love to keep that going as long as possible
How long had you been riding this bike when you did this review?
A couple years, though not every day.
@@ethanblagg thanx.
what about pedal strikes? I imagine a heavy hit could wreck havoc
Pedal strikes? they are the same pedals are any other bike. The gearbox is built to be struck.
the belt replacement is frequent?
Hey! No it should be a lot longer than a chain. I'm not sure how much longer, but it should last a long time.
ye, a big problem of derailleurs is that it often runs diagonal to the sprockets which essentially bends it and makes the links weaker allowing for more slack/slip and wears out the sprockets, which then have to be replaced as well..
My takeaway from this was:
Words words words.
You have beer in your bottle cages.
Let’s ride together bro.
Is it Noisy? I ride onyx hubs because there silent freewheel.
It's not noisy. Not silent, but I think most the noise is from the rear hub
Pinion P1.18 (18 speed) gearbox + Rohloff (14 speed) wheelhub = ???
Equals 18x14 = 252 gear combos.
Ethan Blagg that would be absolutely insane. You could tow a tractor trailer in the low end and break the speed record in the high end.
biker of the everywheres I recently found out that similar thing has been done actually - th-cam.com/video/e-ig-R65yHg/w-d-xo.html
Supreme Flagship thanks for the link!
biker of the everywheres You're welcome.
Is it hard to change tire etc (with pinion) ?
It is harder to get the wheel off then on, since you are dealing essentially a single speed type system when removing the wheel. But then changing the tire is the same.
I can't find pinion compatible frame on Reeb website any more! :(
Carver Ti bikes can fit Pinion. Not cheap.
I just ordered a Dikyleous from Reeb and they are definitely building pinion bikes. The SixFidy is also pinion compatible.
What was the cost for this build.
Frame and gearbox were $3500, I estimated the entire build was around $6000. I built it slowly and had a lot of the parts already, so hard to put a specific number.
What is the price for a P1.12 ?
it's more than 1000 euros!!!! :/
how good is pinion gearbox when climb hills?
It's great. The range is bigger than derailleur systems, so no problem there, and the shifting is like normal. With the pinion you need to back off the torque when shifting, just like a derailleur.
I rode up Pikes Peak (8k ft vertical gain) last summer no problems, and have ridden 3 mile climbs with consistent 10-15% gradients without issues as well. (At least no issues besides the pain of the climbs haha)
Ethan Blagg thanks for reply
if that one with video, the more the merrier
Lucky you, I only learned of pinion this year...but sadly only rich people can afford the pinion bikes, the 'lower' class will never experience it, only if they steal the bike...
Is that Medium frame?
I believe it is a large. I went off of the specs, and got as close as possible to the BMC TE hardtail in size large.
How can I get a bicycle like this
Look up the Priority bikes, but they are expensive.
Can't believe the low class language on the sticker...is it from factory?
Sorry if you don't like it - it is not directed at you. Yeah it is from the factory, and I quite like it.
Has to be as light and have the same power loss as derailleur/ cassette system to be a a viable replacement
Where did you get the gear box and frame
I went through reeb cycles. Reebcycles.com
I don't know why anyone would really want a carbon frame for something like mountain biking. Carbon frames can be severely damaged without looking damaged at all and it can happen in a single fall. I absolutely hate aluminium frames. I stick with good old chromoly steel.
Because Carbon is Lighter and Stiffer than steel or Aluminium...from what i have heard Titanium is the best of all
Yeah steel is a good material. but carbon is light, and pretty durable as well, depending on how you ride. I won't ride carbon handlebars, cuz I've seen them break, but I'm ok with the frame cuz I've seen them break and the result isn't as dangerous - just expensive. Carbon can be repaired also.
**Bike worth more than car**😂😂
So?
per km it's far less expensive... the pinion can last 100,000 km... no gas, no insurance, no taxes
@@saarbrooklynrider2277 dump people cant understand how a Really good Bicycle Is worth more than a CHEAP car..."Its just a Bicycle"
What’s the story behind the google translate obscenity on the frame 😂😂
It's a sticker from the manufacturer. And a great catch phrase :)
Did you stick it in google translate, or does it show up in captions, or what?
Carbon? Take my Money.
You want a fixed rear hub on a mountain bike? why on earth would you want that?
Anatole X.H. Less moving parts is my guess. Idk really.
2lb heavier? Thats a good morning dump! 🤣
Sure is!
The bike looks a small for you.
and your brain, on you :)
Ethan Blagg often runes those who are most insecure revert you demeaning other individuals to prop themselves up. Take care and relax.
Carbon frames are overrated steel is real .
camera use terrible
comment use terrible
I really dislike TH-cam comments like this. This guy makes an interesting video for free and the reward..a dickish comment..
Great review. Thanks.