Why Magnus Carlsen Believes Hans Niemann Is Cheating

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2024

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  • @manongkris9017
    @manongkris9017 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1483

    If you got caught cheating twice, it means you cheated more than twice.

    • @hrvojelasic5794
      @hrvojelasic5794 2 ปีที่แล้ว +59

      exactly

    • @Maver1ck911
      @Maver1ck911 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      I'd wager at this point Hans was induced to cheat by a leak on purpose to see if he'd take the bait. Entrapment only counts against law enforcement not private citizens. A cheater through and through couldn't abide getting destroyed by memes on the beach in August with the black pieces.

    • @railguncs
      @railguncs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      twice online

    • @Ray-iu7hg
      @Ray-iu7hg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Definitely

    • @chrisoleary9876
      @chrisoleary9876 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      People change.

  • @fiascoke
    @fiascoke 2 ปีที่แล้ว +567

    Them having played casually plenty is significant. Noone is cheating in the beach games. If HN real rating is 2400ish, it takes very little for MC to realize that. 2850 loses to 2400 only when they blunder badly. They never get outplayed. They know the difference. When MC crushes him casually in non-competitive games and the guy dramatically raises his level in competition, it is very obvious for top level players. Cannot even stress enough the level of conviction MC could have even with no hard evidence. I’d put all my money on the fact that Magnus is not wrong here. He wouldn’t have taken such course if there was any doubt in his mind.

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว +80

      Hans did hide his true strength. His ability to cheat at will.

    • @chuifongtam4703
      @chuifongtam4703 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Obviously Hans improved by studying, practicing and playing chess everyday? So people can't improve without cheating according to you?

    • @Lotussparkle
      @Lotussparkle 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      @Drunk Town He must be hiding his true strength not just in the beach game. Must have been hiding it in many competitions and games. He even must have been hiding it during the Julius Baer Generation Cup... Not likely.

    • @malibunights7108
      @malibunights7108 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      His rating is near 2700. That is a super GM level. And yes, a 2700 could defeat a near 2900. The term is "could". Didnt you know even some intermediate players can defeat 2500+ rating players? There is this thing called PREPARATION or LUCK when your opponent blunders, and when I tell you that super GM blunders too, I shit you not.

    • @fiascoke
      @fiascoke 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      @@malibunights7108 If we were to assume the cheating hypothesis to be true, he is way below his current rating. The next best guess would be the rating he had before the epic raise. That was sub-2500. Also, if you look at his post-game analysis, it comes nowhere near super GM level. It was truly shocking how bad he was, incl. assessing -5 eval to be winning, etc. Other GM-s were dumbfounded when they saw that.

  • @colin3120
    @colin3120 2 ปีที่แล้ว +376

    So unlucky Hans is, he only cheated twice and got caught both times! Of course he never cheated between those two events and never after the last time he got exposed two years ago.

    • @radicalrick9587
      @radicalrick9587 2 ปีที่แล้ว +57

      *Yes, after getting caught multiple times, Han's a 100% reform cheater. No reason to think he would ever cheat again in this lifetime.* 🤣🤣

    • @railguncs
      @railguncs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@radicalrick9587 was online, not otb

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      It's easier to cheat OTB because they don't collect timing data which is a major component of cheat detection

    • @cheetah219
      @cheetah219 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Still, past behavior is the best indicator for future behavior.
      Magnus most certainly had those games with (even casual) memorized in his head and analyzed them. Especially if these were unique openings to see how Hans would handle them.
      In a casual beach setting and unusual openings with magnus as black, hans struggled and couldn't take over Magnus. This told magnus that Hans' online win against him was possible but magnus knew that if he played unusually Hans himself wouldn't know how to interact against that and most likely crumble.
      I liken this to Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was famous for holding practices in basketball off seasons and inviting all the best NBA players to them to compete. What Michael was really doing was measuring his opponents, feigning friendship in some cases, and understanding their game from a physical and mental level on an intimate environment. It's what the best of the best do. Magnus more than likely was doing something similar here to evaluate where Hans real level was outside of competition and scrutiny and came to the conclusion (most likely) that he is a talented player, but at the low GM level.
      Then magically in the st Louis cup, Hans comes back storming against magnus and wins when magnus has white, already an advantage.
      This is where things become fishy for magnus because he doesn't understand how he played Hans casually and crushes him but then Hans is able to find engine level moves later on that he couldn't before with no pressure.
      I believe this, combined with Hans previous cheating and an unusually high win rate against magnus in recent cups is what is leading Magnus to believe Hans is cheating to some level.
      We have to realize other super gms and gms really struggle against magnus, anish giri has a meme about drawing all the time, pragg was crushed in this week's tournament from magnus, and other gms on online games. Even against Hikaru, Hikaru makes very unusual moves or blunders against magnus (see Gotham chess breakdowns for some of those matches) where a former number 2 also struggled.
      Yes all these guys have wins over magnus, but Hans has a very interesting edge over him after multiple tournaments (FTX and st louis) which combined which combined rapid rise in OTB rating, online cheating in the past, Hans hiding his coach from public view that leans towards magnus having strong suspicions. Magnus probably even asked chess.com for Hans' online gameplay and found more suspicious activity after these losses when he could easily crush Hans in a casual beach game.
      All of this, including, other gm interviews (see Hikarus reactipn to firouza talking about cheating) and firouza talking about a game at a Canadian cup where he strongly suspected someone cheating OTB but the fide anti cheating program didn't see anything. Hikaru (in the same video) also mentioned something similar happened to him and that player was proven to cheat but was swept under the wrong.
      All of this means that OTB cheating is very hard to catch, the current fide anti cheating programs are inconsistent, and GMs have to use their own gameplay knowledge and memorization to determine what exactly is occurring with players and when magnus is the best in the world and can recall games from a decade ago, he clearly knows something is off with someone purportedly at a near super GM level but is missing some of the common characteristics of super GMs.
      I'm not saying Hans cheated recently but there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction...what's also quite puzzling is a STRONG change in Hans behavior comparing his 16/17 year old streaming personality to the 19 year old version of him. In just 2 years. A lot of unusual activity for someone 19 years old but all of this said. Innocent until proven guilty and everyone in the world blunders at some point in chess, even magnus Carlson.

    • @malibunights7108
      @malibunights7108 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@pikachew7376 it is easier? HAHAHAAHA what are you, an expert now? 😂😂😂 EASIER. HAHAHAHAHAHA LMAO

  • @David-cs9zo
    @David-cs9zo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +467

    Anish remembering both games to this extent is extraordinary.

    • @helgedragseth4599
      @helgedragseth4599 2 ปีที่แล้ว +75

      Not at all. Players at this level can remember unnumberes games from both their own and others play.

    • @charlescushing1
      @charlescushing1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +88

      I read somewhere that Magnus Carlson has upwards of 1000 notable historic chess games memorized that he can replay perfectly at will right from memory. This is 'savant' territory, it seems to me.

    • @miguelpanta
      @miguelpanta 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      pretty standard

    • @koudoukurieux6842
      @koudoukurieux6842 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      @@helgedragseth4599 yes but a random blitz game on the beach from 2 weeks before ? It may be common business for them but still so incredible...

    • @Alexander_Tronstad
      @Alexander_Tronstad 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@charlescushing1 *Carlsen

  • @Kingomegared
    @Kingomegared 2 ปีที่แล้ว +415

    Anish can analyze Han's game better than Hans himself

    • @helgedragseth4599
      @helgedragseth4599 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      That is a good statement.

    • @radicalrick9587
      @radicalrick9587 2 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      *Chess speaks for itself. - Han's Niemann.* 🤣

    • @JohnnyBrook
      @JohnnyBrook 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Hans is just a kid, and his ability to analyze and communicate hasn’t caught up his intuition or his knowledge. Anish is a lot more experienced and does have better communicative abilities. But this is no reason to dismiss Niemann. Let’s see how he talks about chess in 5 years when all his capacity is fully formed.

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Hans "I dOnT nEeD VaRiAtIoNs" Niemann

    • @chuifongtam4703
      @chuifongtam4703 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Just becuase Hans' social & communication skills aren't as good as his chess obviously doesn't mean he cheated..... some scientists have social anxiety and can't do presentations well, are we going discredit a scientist who can't speak in public well? Grow up

  • @stridedeck
    @stridedeck 2 ปีที่แล้ว +386

    We keep forgetting that an expert cheating is trickier to catch than a lower-level chess player. The reason being, as Magnus clearly stated over a year ago, that there are only a few key points in the game in which the right choice is difficult to calculate. You only need the correct path to take at only one or two key juncture points. Not for the entire game! To me, it is this juncture point that Magnus views his opponent had cheated on as to pick the correct path is beyond his level of 2688!

    • @supremespanker
      @supremespanker 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      We keep forgetting that mathematics exists and what you describe can be statistically analyzed.

    • @Pizzahutbaby
      @Pizzahutbaby 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@supremespanker I watched that same video

    • @stridedeck
      @stridedeck 2 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      @@supremespanker Exactly. The baseline is at locating all these pivotal points that the game relies on. At the super Gm level, their pivotal points are not that many (perhaps 1 or 2), whereas, to a lower level GM or IM, they will have more pivotal points (4, or 5) and to the rest of us a lot more (10 to 15). The Super GM will know all these lower pivotal points. Magnus knows these pivotal points and Hans clearly made the correct moves, and to Magnus suspicion, Hans should not have been able to!
      So, for a mathematic model to pick this out, requires a Super Gm to show to the computer mathematician where all these pivotal points are!
      For example, if the model only looks at 15 pivotal points, and Hans throughout all his games from the past 2 years gets 80% and at the competition with Magnus gets 80%, then it will not pick up cheating. However, if the super GM pivotal points are 1 or 2, and over the past 2 years, Hans gets only 50% (just as he did at the beach playing against Magnus), and at the competition gets 100%, then, something is suspicious!

    • @akashsinha2880
      @akashsinha2880 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Maybe Magnus started believing that he's unbeatable. Sounds like Kasparov when he lost to deep blue. Complaining about cheating.
      Edit: Thanks for all the love. I just want to say that unless we have any actual evidence, we shouldn't harass a young player so much that it ends his career.
      PS don't know much about Hans. Not a fan either. Lots of respect for Magnus. He's the GOAT.

    • @kaberigomes2117
      @kaberigomes2117 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@akashsinha2880 Maybe we shouldn't quickly judge the situation. Let both come out with facts and statements of what exactly happened. Your maybe comment is biased against magnus.

  • @sereneoceanbreeze4447
    @sereneoceanbreeze4447 2 ปีที่แล้ว +242

    Are you familiar with the Mike Postle scandal? Every good poker player knows the fool was cheating. Explaining it to oitsiders was the problem.

    • @natemendsen1629
      @natemendsen1629 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I see no such consensus with good or expert chess players though.

    • @sereneoceanbreeze4447
      @sereneoceanbreeze4447 2 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      @@natemendsen1629 Theres the potential of getting sued for saying Hans is xheating here, not the other way around, Holmes.

    • @unrestrictedpot3003
      @unrestrictedpot3003 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      this is completely different. mike postle you could statistically prove he was cheating. here it's just hearsay vs hearsay. he would have to bring in a computer somehow to cheat

    • @natemendsen1629
      @natemendsen1629 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sereneoceanbreeze4447 Yeah but we have plenty who are saying they see no signs of it. They are not even trying to play overt false coyness here. Just like Magnus here they could make their feelings known, but that is not what I am seeing .
      Hell we have a cheating expert saying this
      th-cam.com/video/DDRLZTkd30c/w-d-xo.html

    • @sereneoceanbreeze4447
      @sereneoceanbreeze4447 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      @@unrestrictedpot3003 Mike Postle had an incredible winrate. But then so has Niemann by the way his rating has jumped.

  • @benjaminjameskurz
    @benjaminjameskurz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Fabiano said on his podcast that Magnus has had suspicions about Hans for a long time before this scandal broke out

  • @Luke-wz4em
    @Luke-wz4em 2 ปีที่แล้ว +93

    The issue isn’t whether he cheated OTB, it’s that he cheated to raise his rating so he could play better players and get invited to money events. We will see what Magnus says but that is a big deal in my mind.

    • @ceoherohub2584
      @ceoherohub2584 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      you wouldn’t be writing this comment if Hans lost at the Sinquefield Cup. This is what you call “moving the goal posts” internet forgets extremely fast.

    • @juanquntos7123
      @juanquntos7123 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@ceoherohub2584 No, I'm in favor of treating Hans as innocent, but I think he makes a good point here.

    • @Prisoner_X
      @Prisoner_X 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thix x1000

  • @bhupichand2660
    @bhupichand2660 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Magnus did lose a game in ftx cup to Hans. Followed by consecutive wins for Magnus. I do believe hans is fishy.

  • @jryer1
    @jryer1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    7:37 - Magnus doesn't need to have anything concrete for Hans to have irreparable damage to his career, Hans ALREADY did that to himself! He has no one but himself to blame.

    • @maicolc7216
      @maicolc7216 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hans is promoting his TH-cam/Instagram channels or personality.

    • @jryer1
      @jryer1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@maicolc7216 Pretty much!

    • @user-ro9md9wp3j
      @user-ro9md9wp3j 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      not true

    • @ask230
      @ask230 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Moreover, Magnus just has to demonstrate that Hans acted improperly at some point in some way and that it's very bad for chess. I think we all.know this doesn't specifically have to do with the Hans/Magnus game at St Louis.

    • @Ben-vg6ox
      @Ben-vg6ox 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He already has a criminal record for past cheating...twice even....

  • @brotar1873
    @brotar1873 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    I thought Niemann didn't cheat either, but it doesn't matter if he has. Niemann has posed a foundation shifting question to the integrity of the Chess world "Can I cheat and play again?"
    No GM will be able to lose against a known cheater and not wonder "Did I lose because they cheated again?". People have and will quit pursuing careers due to cheaters.
    There are already Modern day video games that have died out due to cheaters feeding their vanity as-well for this exact same reason, its a no win scenario for chess.

    • @waluigi43
      @waluigi43 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What if Magnus cheats all the time?

    • @jeccdog7584
      @jeccdog7584 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@waluigi43 dumb question. magnus has never shown himself cheating on stream and admitting to it

    • @waluigi43
      @waluigi43 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jeccdog7584 If cheating is so easy, what makes you think he never did it?

    • @jeccdog7584
      @jeccdog7584 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@waluigi43 dude that's a very dumb thing to say. Magnus hasn't admitted to cheating!

    • @Thesamurai1999
      @Thesamurai1999 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@waluigi43 Hans has admitted to cheating and most of all got caught twice. None of this has happened with or to Magnus. Also, if Magnus was as much of a cheater as Hans may have been, their game would've been computer like and eventually end up in a draw.

  • @brandonmcheyenehoward1077
    @brandonmcheyenehoward1077 2 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    Magnus is the no 1 Chess player and a solid Poker Player. He loves a challenge and he loves being beaten or winning against players who give him a challenge. Magnus knows instinctively just like he knows when someone is bluffing in Poker. I have to trust Magnus instinct on this especially when he is completely on top of his game right now

    • @hiraldosternflyer7112
      @hiraldosternflyer7112 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Instinct isn't evidence. You can't convict people on instinct, no matter how much you trust it.

    • @Patatmetmayo
      @Patatmetmayo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I only trust real evidence, not instincts. Magnus is misbehaving and damaging a young player's chess career, you can't allow this without good evidence. I don't care how convinced he is Hans is cheating, Magnus is not the arbiter of truth here.

    • @johnweak628
      @johnweak628 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@hiraldosternflyer7112
      It is not his job to investigate though. He just sensed something is wrong so he draw the attention of the chess world to Hans so the authorized people could look at the matter deeply.
      This is the same in poker when a guy named Mike Postle suddenly become god-like in casino games (broadcasted live), when he was playing extremely well to the point of being impossible for someone at his level. He is making decisions as if he knows exactly what his opponents are holding. While legit high skilled pros could narrow down range of hands, this guy seems to know exactly what 2 cards his opponent holds.
      There was this hand where he called all in pre-flop with a bad hand that it is a very clear fold unless two of the other players who went all in both have AK (because then they both block the cards that they should hit a pair with postflop thus diminishing their odds to improve). And yet he called and both of them indeed holds AK. This is just one of many suspect hands btw.
      It is so hard to prove but you know something is off. Just like when a magician does a trick in front of us, we know there is a trick but we can't explain how. Yes the burden of proof falls upon the accuser but you can't really blame them if they will avoid playing you in the future. This is what MC is doing on Hans right now. And knowing that Hans have cheated before, we can't blame MC to think that Hans has no problem cheating if he can find a clever way of doing it. But then again if MC didn't protest, there a possibility that a cheater could find his way to the top ranks.

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Magnus has already won. Get ready for the bloodbath

    • @jordandthornburg
      @jordandthornburg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@johnweak628 that makes much sense. As has been said by others magnus needs to lay his cards on the table which apparently he will this week. For the sake of everyone.

  • @thesuperjacobshow8151
    @thesuperjacobshow8151 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Cheaters don't stop cheating. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

  • @RaimundoPAM
    @RaimundoPAM 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The Sinquefield game analisys by Dr. Ken Regan shows that Nieman was not overplaying in that game but Magnus was really underplaying.
    I think Hans Nieman was not cheating in Sinquefield cup but all this suspicion was so far up in Magnus head that he fumbled against him in the game.

  • @Mistral434
    @Mistral434 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

    In the match today, in the interview after winning, Magnus said that tomorrow (Sep 26) he would provide a statement regarding the affair with Hans.

    • @michaelbauers8800
      @michaelbauers8800 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      About time.

    • @jaideepshekhar4621
      @jaideepshekhar4621 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      "Affair"? 👀

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That was a violation.

    • @JM-db8ez
      @JM-db8ez 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He said tomorrow or in the upcoming days. It's good to be accurate, less confusion and false expectation.

  • @pinofshame6253
    @pinofshame6253 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    For sure it's innocent until proven guilty, but at the same time it's so obvious like 2+2:
    Hans has couple of times cheated or more + his coach Was cheating + his gm norms with average 20 cp loss + his performance sometimes poor sometimes sus + he woke up and became a chess genius/prodigy at the age of 18? Or 19? + I don't need more pluses to assume he is a cheater

    • @SlightReturn666
      @SlightReturn666 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm a terrible chess player; let's get that out there. But at any rate I don't understand how you could cheat "over the board" ... it's easy on computers but how the heck do you do it live, especially when there is 15 minute delay on the broadcast?

    • @pinofshame6253
      @pinofshame6253 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SlightReturn666 as much as I recall the 15 min delay was after the withdrawal. As for the cheating it's tough to say how, mb the opening itself was a really good trap by Magnus and the "response" was surprisingly good.

    • @stefanleonte3155
      @stefanleonte3155 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@SlightReturn666 this seems to be a common point on this saga. Just because it’s hard to understand how cheating may be occurring does not mean cheating isn’t taking place. This has been witnessed frequently in multiple other sport doping and cheating scandals.

    • @SlightReturn666
      @SlightReturn666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stefanleonte3155 I reluctantly have to agree with you on that one. I used to be a very serious amateur bicycle racer ~20 years ago, and I followed the pros every day. It was so so so sad that, e.g., in the Tour de France, if a rider had an unusually good stage, everyone would immediately clamor "LE DOPAGE!!!!!" ... and much more often than not, they were ultimately proven right.

  • @cdeford
    @cdeford 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    Niemann is screwed either way. This is always going to follow him. The lesson is don't cheat, even when it seems unimporatant. You never know how it might come back to haunt you.

    • @Blackjax137
      @Blackjax137 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Or don't stand for being bullied by a GM known for his ego and unsportsmanlike temper whenever he loses.
      The board of the Sinquefield Cup's statement that there was no indication of cheating within their own event is infinitely more reliable than Magnus' suspicions and the platform in which he has been sponsored by (and his company recently acquired by) for years. Unless Magnus can provide evidence that he was cheated against, his tantrum will back himself into a corner. Throwing Niemann's credibility into question due to his historic cheating is one thing, throwing the Sinquefield Cup into disrepute is how to further build a reputation of being unsportsmanlike and be uninvited from events/lose titles.

    • @TheMaulam12345
      @TheMaulam12345 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      no the lesson is dont get caught

  • @tunefish82
    @tunefish82 2 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    I don't know if this story is true, but... I once heard Hans was caught by his girlfriend with another woman, even though his moves were 100 % accurate. As he was caught in the act of cheating and the girlfriend was asking what on Earth he was doing, he simply replied: "Well, I think the position speaks for itself."

    • @HulkRemade
      @HulkRemade 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      When his girlfriend demanded to know why, Niemann, noting that the woman was very large breasted, replied "The chest speaks for itself"

    • @Thom176
      @Thom176 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      These jokes also speak for themselves

    • @poetcomic1
      @poetcomic1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Sounds like that old story about Noah Webster who wrote America's lst dictionary. He was caught kissing the pretty house maid and his wife said "Noah! I'm surprised at you." Ever the word guy he said "No dear, I am the one who is 'surprised' you are 'astonished'.

    • @frylock6403
      @frylock6403 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      cheating in his relationship isnt cheating in the game lmao. The fact that the new kid on the block was caught cheating on multiple occasions on the game is already very suspect

    • @Khangst
      @Khangst 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@frylock6403 the joke just went completely over your head didnt it?

  • @Viewer13128
    @Viewer13128 2 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    Wait, Hans got caught cheating twice at 12-16 years old, which means the whole time in between was almost 5 years!!! Dude, that's a veteran cheater!!! it hasn't even been 3 years since he was last caught, and that's assuming he's better at cheating now. He was also dishonest in his interview for "coming clean" about cheating twice, but that was actually forced because streamers exposed him, and he had to respond. He turned silent once chesscom said he cheated more. Seeing how sly he was in the interview for claiming that he was transparent and courageous, his credibility is still sht as always.
    Btw, I'm not saying hans is guilty in the game against Magnus or not, but he sure is sus as heck given he has no record of redemption (like he claimed) amongst other random claims he made in interviews. All i'm saying is Hans was and is sus, and if he had a clean record, then we ignore it. But since he is sus while having a past record, then anyone has the right to avoid him, even without proof (they only cannot punish or judge without proof, but it is a right of everyone to avoid a suspicious ex-offender that never showed rehabilitation).
    Afterward, Hans's interviews were also sus. He was called out by streamers (which he said he watched) for being caught twice officially. In the interview, he twisted it to say he is courageous and transparent because nobody expects him to come clean all by himself (this blatant lie is immediately sus and not matching a person in actual redemption). In the same interview, he twisted his training in chess to equate to a redemption journey (again a convenient twist of the truth). He also only called out famous names only (magnus and hikaru), ignoring Eric who is the only one basically declaring Hans a cheater (the actual insinuation that Hans ignored).
    He also hid several facts. (1) that it was 5 years in between the 2 times he was officially caught, and has only been 2-3 years since. (2) that he had more cheating allegations than he admitted. While hiding these facts, he claimed he was transparent and courageous, hiding it by raging emotionally.
    He also raged as if he had nothing to lose. Raging is 50/50 afaik. You can be guilty or innocent and rage, as it's a typical response for both. Raging doesn't earn any pity points at all as long as things don't add up. However, ppl ignored his past record the moment he raged. They forgot that everyone has the right to avoid a currently suspicious ex-offender that never showed rehabilitation. It's our right without infringing on their rights, but the moment Hans raged, everyone got fooled and said Magnus can't avoid hans as long as hans indirectly suffers from his avoidance.

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Hans is a prolific cheater. Cheating is a way of life to him. And rage, the only emotion he is capable of experiencing is rage and maybe jealousy? What a nice person.
      Speaking of streaming, you gotta love how his eyes constantly dart rapidly to the side every second or two when he's on facecam. And how he tries to hide his "tic" by resting his hand on his forehead or twirling his hair. Perhaps he can consider a career as an actor? Or maybe a clown? Because I'm sure he's crying on the inside.

    • @jprepo1
      @jprepo1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I saw another video where someone went back and ran some of his other games through an older engine and a lot of what he did showed up as best moves, chessmvp channel or something similar

    • @weirdofromhalo
      @weirdofromhalo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @Steven It's easiest to do with a co-conspirator, especially in the classical format. Niemann's coach, another known cheater, can give hand signals or audio cues for telling Niemann what move to make, or they could have a conversation when Niemann gets up from the board. There's also technological aids, like an earpiece, a buzzer, etc.

    • @kimidoriglove5761
      @kimidoriglove5761 ปีที่แล้ว

      After reading this, it would be strange if anyone still on Hans side. Either anti magnus or just troll.

    • @crimsonitacilunarnebula
      @crimsonitacilunarnebula ปีที่แล้ว

      @@weirdofromhalo maybe contact lenses 🤔

  • @feuerhirn
    @feuerhirn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I find it funny that Magnus, who did so much for chess as a whole and is that well known good guy persona gets accused of being a sour loser by some or even is doubted.

  • @HateMachinist
    @HateMachinist 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    When Andrii Punin analysed Niemanns recent games, he used stockfish as a side-by-side comparison. When 22 moves are identical to stockfish recommendations without deviation, I can understand very well why some people would sooner believe in flat-earth theories before they believe he is playing clean.

    • @JaredDeinlein
      @JaredDeinlein 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      A fishing software?

    • @HateMachinist
      @HateMachinist 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@JaredDeinlein ...Stockfish is the name of the currently most efficient chess-computer out there.

    • @himalayo
      @himalayo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      So youre telling me a prodigy super GM shouldn't know his theory and be able to play accurately?

    • @JaredDeinlein
      @JaredDeinlein 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@HateMachinist how did hans cheat? No smartphones were out

    • @JaredDeinlein
      @JaredDeinlein 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@himalayo could jimi hendrix explain how he just did a 25 min improv on his guitar? Probably not.

  • @sardoniclaugh9646
    @sardoniclaugh9646 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    I think there is mounting evidence that Hans cheated. First of all he claimed Magnus had played the same position in a previous game and he happened to prepare it the day before but no one seems to be able to find that game and he never pointed to an exact date or who Magnus played against. If what he said was true he would have done that. And if he didn't prepare why did he claim he did? That's pretty suspicious. Also I've seen a video that claims he has been playing with incredible, inhuman accuracy at times while at other times he's average at best. That also seems weird. It's very strange to have such a performance range, you're either superhuman or you're not, it's not like he's good and then at times he's brilliant. He's good and at times he's a machine, that's different from being brilliant that's a whole different level of play. He has games where he played the Stockfish top rated move 48 times in a row.To be able to do that (if that's even possible but let's say it is) you have to be wired differently and that wiring should manifest in all your games. Hans looks very, very mortal in other games and that's what is suspicious.

  • @zackf3688
    @zackf3688 2 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    There's the factual conversation "did Hans Cheat?" Which is useless to debate since there's no evidence to suggest that he did. There is, however, the conversation of integrity and honesty (two things Hans seemingly lacks) and how much competitive chess depends on people following the rules of fair play. I would say that anyone who has been caught cheating in tournaments with cash prizes should be banned.

    • @neptunexii8927
      @neptunexii8927 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      i think people are having trouble understanding in their brains that he was 12 and 16. read that again. TWELVE AND SIXTEEN. you want him to be banned for life for mistakes he made as a 10th grader?

    • @zackf3688
      @zackf3688 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@neptunexii8927 He apparently lied about the extent of his online cheating just a couple of weeks ago. And yes, there should be severe punishments for cheating as it completely ruins the game.

    • @brillianceoflives7841
      @brillianceoflives7841 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      @@neptunexii8927 Cheating from 12 till 16 is no joke, plus at 16 you should already know the consequences. Moreover it isn't like he's in his 30s and left his past in the shadows, he's just barely 19 meaning that (if we can believe his words, which I don't think we can) the last time he cheated was JUST 2 years ago. Which is basically yesterday in global time.

    • @marzipanhunt2870
      @marzipanhunt2870 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@neptunexii8927 Hi. Yes I do want him banned. He is an obvious cheater.

    • @akaneriyun4774
      @akaneriyun4774 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@neptunexii8927 Yes since his contemporaries are also young prodigies. Prag is 17 and Alireza is 19. They were both playing in the competitive scene around the same time Hans began. Heck, Magnus defeated then-World Champion Garry Kasparov when he was 13. THIRTEEN! Age does not matter in chess. The fact that Hans cheated as a kid is irrelevant. He CHEATED--ergo, he should have been banned.

  • @joesimon2018
    @joesimon2018 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Magnus knows because his radio receiver was jammed by Hans' receiver.

    • @rokpodlogar6062
      @rokpodlogar6062 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      i can already imagine those chinese BT adapter voices going "yo butooth is veady to pair!"

  • @martinschultz5596
    @martinschultz5596 2 ปีที่แล้ว +77

    I don't think a known cheater can really "remain innocent". I get it, you meant this particular time there's no proof of him cheating, but it's a misleading choice of words. He doesn't remain innocent. He's a known cheater.

    • @jmj0795
      @jmj0795 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      To be very extreme. A serial murder isn't guilty because he's a serial murder. He can be innocent of this crime even if he cheated before. 2 separate occasions. And people aren't witch hunting hans for his past cheating it's for the potential cheating

    • @pfeilspitze
      @pfeilspitze 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      @@jmj0795 I'm still not inviting the serial murderer to go hunting with me alone in a forest, even if innocent this time.

    • @jaideepshekhar4621
      @jaideepshekhar4621 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jmj0795 Tell me you will hire a babysitter who has already killed two children just 3 years ago, and probably killed one last week. Will you look at his age? Fuck no! There are enough babysitters in the world, we can make do without this mf.

    • @rskrzz6233
      @rskrzz6233 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      not only that, he was mentored by a known cheater who had also been banned several times.

    • @itstimeforlee
      @itstimeforlee 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Exactly, he remains guilty.

  • @steelsteez6118
    @steelsteez6118 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I truly believe that Hans briefly fondled Magnus' balls under the table at the Sinquefield cup and this whole thing has nothing to do with Hans cheating and everything to do with Magnus feeling violated but too embarrassed to tell anyone about it (yet). This would explain why he decided to not even show up after the third round and it would also explain why he's been silent this whole time about the matter (still uncomfortable and really pondering whether he wants to tell the whole world about how he BELIVES he got fondled.. I mean, just think of all the memes alone). This would also explain Magnus' cryptic tweet about him getting "in big trouble" if he said anything. He probably suspects he was fondled but doesn't know for sure. He knows that Hans can just as easily claim that it was his shoe that accidentally rubbed up against him. Then Magnus would look terrible for the ridiculous allegation against Hans in front of the whole world. It would also explain why he lost that game against Hans that day because he couldn't stop thinking about whether he truly did get a little d*** twist from Hans, or if it in fact was just Hans shoe or knee that brushed up against him. I think in the coming days Magnus will finally reveal what he really thinks happened under that table that day 😬.

    • @natemedina6581
      @natemedina6581 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This is honestly the best theory I've heard so far. I hadn't even really considered this but it actually makes complete sense and precisely explains all of Magnus actions. You MUST be a detective for a living. Good work!

    • @Fridgeconqueror
      @Fridgeconqueror 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      😂YMMD!

    • @Wal572
      @Wal572 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      LoL 😂

    • @dt6719
      @dt6719 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This makes so much sense. Thank you for writing this out

    • @chilly232323
      @chilly232323 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And when other GMs like Nepo talk about Hans "cheating", they don't mean chess, but what happens under the table.

  • @moremileyplease4387
    @moremileyplease4387 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Hans esta muy cheater. The leopard, it do not change it's spots.

  • @GouTamGavigod
    @GouTamGavigod 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Seems like Gabriel Sams is hand-in-glove with Hans Niemann. So confident that the cheats used are undetectable 😝. Problem is, in every game, if you cheat even just once and get caught and admit to it, the whole lobby will always be suspicious and hate you.

  • @Juan_Poncho
    @Juan_Poncho 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    niemann's coach communicating in morse up to his ass. lmao

  • @Tartersauce101
    @Tartersauce101 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    6:25 BRO THANK YOU. Finally someone said it. I was thinking this from the beginning and no one talked about it. This all occurred after Magnus started dealing with chesscom, obviously they told him something (that honestly might have been an error to do so) regarding Hans and his history on their site.

    • @Tartersauce101
      @Tartersauce101 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@rob4419 ...sorry that sounds random as hell. People talk. They hang out, they gossip. Especially when they are engaged in business together. I don't see a reason to complicate it.

    • @DillaryHuff
      @DillaryHuff 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think it's more likely that he saw what Hans' level was when they were playing at the beach, and understood that something wasn't right when Hans suddenly turned into a genius- level player in an official tournament.

  • @datraucous3351
    @datraucous3351 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    It makes no sense for Carlsen to go this far without evidence because he would ruin his own reputation with false allegations.

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Magnus Carlsen has checkmated Hans Niemann in real life. He has him dead to rights.

    • @unitystarlight13
      @unitystarlight13 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Unfortunately that could never happen. He's already a legend in the chess community, he could literally pee on the chess board during a game and people would still smile and clap

    • @sakaya9878
      @sakaya9878 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@unitystarlight13 no they wouldn’t. They would call him a sore loser who bullies an up and coming teenager.

  • @commiecomrade2644
    @commiecomrade2644 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    What sealed it for me is how bad Hans' post match interview was - he could not show variation. His analysis made no sense and it was like he had no clue why he made the moves he made when he made them.

  • @2010OEFvet
    @2010OEFvet 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    FroM my understanding the reason there was a thought of cheating in the Sinquefeld ow however you spell is that on a move that Nieman played, he said that he prepared that exact move against Magnus exactly 21 moves in believe because he studied Magnus’ opening . The problem was, the opening that magnus played, he had never played that opening before to get to that position. That’s what was SUS.

    • @johannesvaasalainen7075
      @johannesvaasalainen7075 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      well, couldn't that mean that he just think that was possible move even knowing that Carlsen hasn't played that before but knowing that position at the board could occur (having made his studies) and for that reason might be better to be prepared for the move.

  • @mikesmith6838
    @mikesmith6838 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    You might want to hold off on taking Hans' side, as the statistical analysis of Hans' games is pretty damning. Either he is the best chess mind to ever exist, and by a huge margin, or he has been cheating. Nakamora had a pretty good break-down of this that you might want to watch. To put this to numbers, if Hans is NOT cheating, expect him to be a 3000+ world champion in the future. It really is one or the other. Super SUPER GM or cheater.

    • @SlightReturn666
      @SlightReturn666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You have a much better understanding of this than I do. What is your view of the infamous game where Hans on black won against that crazy opening from Magnus? What are the odds of a normal human being being able to parry and ultimately defeat such a rare set of moves?

  • @askingwhyisfree7436
    @askingwhyisfree7436 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I can't believe some people commented "Hans was hiding his true strength" LMFAO. It's a fact he was caught cheating at 12 and 16 years old. He's 19 years old now. Do you think it's that long ago? He's young and desperate for fame. That's why. This is not an anime where you just get good suddenly cuz you're hiding your strength. In real life, there's a cap at to which skill level you can perform. Everybody in basketball trains hard but not everyone becomes Lebron or Michael Jordan.

  • @FenceThis
    @FenceThis 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The beach photo was likely a set up photo shoot on request of the arrangers meant for promoting

  • @nikolatasev4948
    @nikolatasev4948 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    When someone you can beat easily has patches of brilliance and can crush you in certain games, this is highly suspicious.
    Then again, suspicion is not proof. Anti-cheating measures should be strengthened, but people should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

  • @tumisangselemogwe9547
    @tumisangselemogwe9547 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Getting crushed twice with white pieces, then crushing the same opponent in a big tournament playing with black pieces I MEAN SEEERRIOUSLY!!!

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hans Niemann was born to push pawns in bizarre and unpredictable ways. You're just being ignorant

    • @jordandthornburg
      @jordandthornburg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What is that? Everyone plays badly at times. People are really having a low bar of evidence.

    • @exposett246
      @exposett246 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jordandthornburg the evidence is that he cheats.....caught 2 times.... then he only admits to cheating 2 times.. so he is obviuzly not honest about his own cheating even when caught.......pluss its easier to cheat over the board because there really no system to check if he got a viberator up his ass

    • @tumisangselemogwe9547
      @tumisangselemogwe9547 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jordandthornburgI mean according to the games on the beach Magnus played dubious or bad openings but still EASILY crushed him TWICE, you wouldn't expect that kind of an opponent to wipe Magnus off the board like that in the end game with black pieces, I will say I agree that it is not concrete but circumstancial evidence, but at the same time it definitely does not help in reducing the suspicions

  • @Ak-47ram
    @Ak-47ram 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why let a previous cheater compete in a tournament & jeopardize other players careers? Hans is not even a top40 player.. it’s like if you stole from a store but they don’t take actions towards you and let you come back in..?! Like Wtf??

  • @sdoren_9074
    @sdoren_9074 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Hans looks like an evil villain

  • @chriszablocki2460
    @chriszablocki2460 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is WWE for people that aren't mindless. ❤

  • @IVANOsijek007
    @IVANOsijek007 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Great video and info. I believe that Hans is cheating though, Magnus is really serious on these unofficial, soon to be official accusations. He is also playing in top shape despite the drama, he is really confident.

    • @ceoherohub2584
      @ceoherohub2584 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Magnus is wrong and his big ego keeps himself from being the best. Refusing to play challengers due to previous experience shows no matter the excuse.

    • @lightspamorochi766
      @lightspamorochi766 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@ceoherohub2584 dude magnus quite literally IS the best lmao

    • @log8746
      @log8746 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@ceoherohub2584 LMAO he literally obliterated everyone on the tournament

    • @storkshot
      @storkshot 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@ceoherohub2584 you've heard of another Magnus Carlsen perhaps?

    • @SeekAndDestroyTM
      @SeekAndDestroyTM 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ceoherohub2584 Time will tell. Magnus has really good lawyers.

  • @arielzabatecuizon5147
    @arielzabatecuizon5147 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    He admitted he cheated "twice". Like my neighbor, he said he took just 1 guava in our backyard, but already took a dozen. What do you think when Hans said "twice"? My wife says, once a cheater always a cheater.

  • @PkmnTrainerSophia
    @PkmnTrainerSophia 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I understand Magnus. He wants a fair game, and he sensed that something was wrong with the match.

  • @paraguayprofis
    @paraguayprofis 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Once upon a time there was a young kid who wanted a new iphone. He went into a store to buy one but he only had $300 and the phone he wanted did cost $600. This was a major blow to his ego. He didnt want to earn the missing money, he deserved a new phone right now. So he went ahead and stole it. Bad luck that the store had cameras and so he was stoped before he could leave the store. But he was just a kid, so we can forget about that. He wouldnt do it again. Or so we thought. But for him, this was just the beginning. Over the next couple of years he would steal everything he wanted but couldnt afford. One day, about 3 years later he made a stupid mistake...and was caught AGAIN. This time the punishment was a bit harder but still, he was just a kid. A kid with a bad habit but still, we can forget about it. He sure wont do it again, will he? But for him? It was just a reminder to train harder and become a much better thief to never NEVER ever get caught again. Giving up stealing? Thats not an option, at all. By now his self image, life style and persona are all strongly dependent on a constant inflow of free stuff he didnt earn. After all even his mother is so proud, her little Hans is bringing home so many nice things.

    • @MasterChief0522
      @MasterChief0522 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Except, so far, we don't have a camera showing that he was cheating. So, your little analogy doesn't really work.

    • @unitystarlight13
      @unitystarlight13 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Guy really created a whole copypasta. Hans really is living rent free in your head lol

  • @henrikdahlberg878
    @henrikdahlberg878 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    About the beach game not being recorded. The camera visible in the picture at 5:46 wasn't recording it?

  • @michaelterry1000
    @michaelterry1000 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I want to hear theories on HOW Niemann cheated.

  • @PapunaOfficial
    @PapunaOfficial 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    on other hand if magnus does not have anything to say than his reputation is in question though

  • @youtubetruthlife4750
    @youtubetruthlife4750 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Those nano-micro wireless earbuds are impossible to detect with the equipment being used at these events. You could set it up to give you the best or the second best move from AI computer easily. I do not know why people have not mentioned this yet.. too stupid i guess.

  • @010bobby
    @010bobby 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    His ego can’t handle losing that’s why... he considers himself world champion and unbeatable... now with this loss he won’t reach 2900 level...

  • @colinlarson9656
    @colinlarson9656 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Hi Gabriel, a video well done. Liked and subbed. That said, why on earth would the arguably best chess player ever make such waves and potential allegations unless he knew it to be true. If wrong, surely he is tainting his own legacy. Not to mention the game that was actually played between the two of them coincidentally was emulated to the exact moves Niemann played. Strange.

    • @WelfareChrist
      @WelfareChrist ปีที่แล้ว

      He’s tainting his legacy regardless in my mind. As a grandmaster at his level you don’t hurl allegations when losing without very solid evidence. He doesn’t have that evidence and he knows it so he left it implicit, the people running the event do NOT think Hans cheated. At this point in my mind even if he did cheat, and again it there’s only circumstantial “evidence”, this is not how someone at Magnus’ level should deal with it. It’s shameful.

    • @alkaholic4848
      @alkaholic4848 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@WelfareChrist How would you deal with it if you were Magnus?
      When you know someone beat you by cheating, what's he supposed to do just say "good game" and act like everything's normal?

    • @WelfareChrist
      @WelfareChrist ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alkaholic4848 that's exactly what you do when you can't prove an allegation, especially at that level. You certainly don't traffic in gossip the way magnus did

    • @alkaholic4848
      @alkaholic4848 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@WelfareChrist You definitely don't.
      When you get fairly beaten then the professional thing is to take it on the chin and accept it.
      But nobody in a highly competitive game/sport who is confident that they were beaten by cheating is going to just lay back and take it.

    • @WelfareChrist
      @WelfareChrist ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alkaholic4848 I think the problem here is you seem certain he cheated and I'm not. It's possible, but I'm not absolutely sure he did. People kept coming up with outlandish ways he could've cheated but nothing was ever proven. I think it's crazy to destroy his entire future in the sport over the 'possibility with no proof' angle.

  • @hanvroman
    @hanvroman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It seems like Magnus start thinking Hans was not concentrated or focus during the Subfield game, but Hans said he had an unbelievable computer preparation so he didn't have to think for a long time... This could have been the main trigger if the whole "witch-hunt"...

    • @alanvincent9394
      @alanvincent9394 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      True but computer preparation can only take you so far, not the entire game.

  • @jtcard4369
    @jtcard4369 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Recent analysis by professionals found no evidence of irregularities or cheating. That said, an absence of evidence is just that, an absence of evidence. Absence of evidence is not evidence of innocence. I don’t know if Hans is cheating. Until evidence shows he is, he should still be “treated” as innocent until he can be proven guilty.

    • @jojoaja6106
      @jojoaja6106 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cheating can be done in dumb or smart way

    • @a_lucientes
      @a_lucientes 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      _Absence of evidence is not evidence of innocence._
      That's exactly what it is. We only call a thing true bc it is demonstrably so. The onus is on the one making the claim. If we dont have evidence of cheating, then that's that. Being suspicious is not evidence. Intentionally losing was the poorest sportsmanship possible and based on what? One game he lost and his suspicion. When analysts have pointed out the mistakes he made early in the game. It's just not not enough. As world champion, he has a responsibility not just to his sponsors but to the other players, including Neimann. To just blow that all off w/tangible anything is more than a little self-serving and unprofessional, imho.

    • @charlesedward5216
      @charlesedward5216 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      So now anybody can accuse anybody without evidence?

    • @ceoherohub2584
      @ceoherohub2584 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hi-ve1cw then all accusations are all based off speculation literally 0 evidence that is clear.

    • @jtcard4369
      @jtcard4369 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hi-ve1cw sure, someone getting assistance on 1 or 2 moves each game would be difficult to catch, and there’s no algorithm that could detect that. That’s irrelevant to the work Dr. Kegan did while analyzing Niemann’s last 2 years of games. No one claimed he relied upon some single, simple algorithm as you strawmanned above.

  • @mrgrateful7246
    @mrgrateful7246 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It is sad because at ftx miami, magnus and hans becoming close..make joke, play chess at beach..now there is issue between them

  • @Etothe2iPi
    @Etothe2iPi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Magnus is definitely a rational guy. I'm sure his actions are also evidence based.

    • @chuifongtam4703
      @chuifongtam4703 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I've heard from Norwegians and other European News sources that Magnus is actually a huge prick. He gets violent, anti social and egotistical when things aren't going his way so I wouldn't be so fast to jump on the Magnus bandwagon. He could be easily accusing Hans (thus ruining his life) because he was salty he lost.

    • @hypercubemaster2729
      @hypercubemaster2729 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@chuifongtam4703 Liar.

    • @abel78750
      @abel78750 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@chuifongtam4703 Omg...you better back up what you're saying about Magnus

    • @JM-db8ez
      @JM-db8ez 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@chuifongtam4703 Proof? Where's the link? You heard from Norwegians and news sources--OK, which ones? Go ahead, provide the source--otherwise you're just slandering and it's pretty weak. "I've heard from Chinese and Asian news sources that Putin is actually a really nice guy." How does that sound to you? Yeah, better provide some context here or your words are just smoke in the wind, the kind that will blow back in your face and make your eyes burn.

    • @downey6666
      @downey6666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Magnus off the cuff accused me of cheating mid match like 15 years ago, was only a kid during an exhibition match. Had no idea who I was playing at the time, was the only one out of a group of 30 who managed to make him sit and calculate.
      It’s the only first hand experience I’ve got of him, but he does say things impulsively.

  • @zorglub667
    @zorglub667 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    - If you got caught cheating twice, that doesn't mean you chested twice but likely a lot more.
    - unparalleled rise in ELO, yet blundering pieces in post match discussions or avoiding them alltogether
    - "magical coincidences" like studying a particular, completely unlikely opening in the morning of the game.
    Usually one would say "innocent until proven guilty". But in this context, a proven and admitted Chester does not deserve the enormous benefit of the doubt that's needed here. And he's got Noone but himself to blame for that.

  • @chubbyjubjub3593
    @chubbyjubjub3593 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I don't know why people wouldn't trust Magnus' judgement on this. He's been beaten before, he'll be beaten again, and never had any ill will one way or the other. So why would he be so salty toward hans for no reason? It seems to me be an unjustifiable conclusion to say hans is not cheating based solely on that. And just to top it all off: once a cheater, always a cheater; your character is what you do when nobody's watching, and hans cheats when nobody's watching, that means he is a cheater. Concrete evidence will see my conviction, that's a guarantee.

  • @vivolucas9081
    @vivolucas9081 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It is asinine to want concrete proof. It is nigh impossible to find a "smoking gun". The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. This guy glosses over the crushing victories on the beach with black mind you that Carlsen used to gauge Niemann's level. Computer analysis shows Niemann's games are outliers. On top of Niemann's own analysis after his games tell you he does not know why he made certain moves (miracle and chess speaks for itself). He is a known cheater with a known cheating coach. Disgrace to the United States with a fake accent.

  • @reason1221
    @reason1221 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Happy to see your videos blow up! Great stuff!

  • @yzfool6639
    @yzfool6639 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Most people don't require evidence for their beliefs, Gabriel. There is not a single ridiculous idea you can think of that some person does not sincerely believe.

    • @CerealDust-nStuff
      @CerealDust-nStuff 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well stated. A lot of people relate to their beliefs as the truth, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.

    • @jaideepshekhar4621
      @jaideepshekhar4621 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Exactly. Like Hans only cheated twice LMAO. XD

  • @jojotheoj
    @jojotheoj 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    And suddenly my interest in chess goes beyond One Night in Bangkok. Thanks for this explanation, much appreciated.

  • @vicentevazquez3917
    @vicentevazquez3917 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hans: if you want I can play naked.
    Magnus: deal.
    Giri: let's go to a nudist beach, I happen know one.

  • @anzrhrn1614
    @anzrhrn1614 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I've truly believe Magnus knows what he's doing. He's ON THE SCENE at the first place after all. Remember, playing chess online and playing chess face-to-face are both completely different experience/feel overall.

    • @davidquinn9676
      @davidquinn9676 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      People said it was strange playing Fischer, like being pushed off the board. Fischer was uncannily accurate. No computer cheating there, he was just good. And he was unpleasantly confident in interviews too.

  • @danielmartinmonge4054
    @danielmartinmonge4054 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have seen this in a Spanish news paper. The total time lapse the biggest GMs spent going from 2485 Elo to 2700:
    Alireza Fioruzja: 2 years 4 months
    Anish Giri: 2 years and. A half
    Magnus Carlsen, Ding Liren and Gukesh: 3 years and a half
    Fabiano Caruana, Jan Duda and Vincent Keymer: 4 years
    Hikaru Nakamura: 5 years and a half
    Abdusattorov: 5 years
    Ian Nepomniachtchi: 6 years
    Danii Dubov: 7 years
    Hans Niemann: 1 year and a half
    1 year less than the quickest on the list.
    What do you think? Is Hans a genius or a cheater?
    Maybe both?

    • @kissarmin7130
      @kissarmin7130 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hans couldn't play OTB games because of covid, so when he started his climb at 2485 his actual skill was more like 2600. Not saying he couldn't have cheated, but I don't think this alone proves it.

    • @danielmartinmonge4054
      @danielmartinmonge4054 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kissarmin7130 thanks for those insights. I never considered Covid into the equation.
      Of course nothing we have seen so far proves anything, that's why people are still debating. Even without Covid, it would just be weird.

  • @joshbraaksma7455
    @joshbraaksma7455 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I once had an employee stealing from the register-
    Had no idea which one it was
    It didn't make sense
    I used some simple math to triangulate that it was a 60 year old school teacher
    If I had fired her
    I would be without an employee and I needed her to train her own replacement -
    Meanwhile
    When I cut her hours back to almost nothing, other workers (youngsters) came after me that I was age discriminating against her-
    I couldn't tell them WHY her hours were cut back
    I also wanted her to QUIT so she could not collect unemployment-
    She finally quit
    My point is
    Sometimes
    You CAN'T reveal the evidence for various reasons

    • @detroitglove2962
      @detroitglove2962 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You sound like a person with questionable ethics but i guess that’s what it takes to be a low level manager these days.

    • @jaideepshekhar4621
      @jaideepshekhar4621 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@detroitglove2962 What is questionable here?

    • @joshbraaksma7455
      @joshbraaksma7455 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@detroitglove2962 hahaha this was twenty years ago

  • @KlausKusserow-ClassicalGuitar
    @KlausKusserow-ClassicalGuitar 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hmmm, you said, Hans remains innocent. He is already guilty…

    • @TheMaulam12345
      @TheMaulam12345 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      you need evident to prove him cheat on that match, he did cheat on prevous matches doesnt mean he cheat on that match,

  • @tyvanbrederode6059
    @tyvanbrederode6059 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    lol did he just use an "The Onion" article?

    • @radicalrick9587
      @radicalrick9587 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      *Not many people realize "The Onion" is a satire site like the "Babylon Bee"* *Fake News You Can Trust. - Babylon Bee* 🤣

  • @rokpodlogar6062
    @rokpodlogar6062 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    that thing in the beach picture in the lower left corner looks like a camera rig of sorts.

  • @lostpianist
    @lostpianist 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The burden of proof is with Magnus, I think he has genuine reason to think Hans is cheating but it's possible he's just mistaken. Hopefully we get some strong evidence either way soon.

    • @davidquinn9676
      @davidquinn9676 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      There is no way for Hans to present additional "strong evidence". The strong evidence is that many experts in cheating detection looked and found nothing. He may be clean as a whistle here and still, there's nothing more he could do. So for Magnus to say he hopes more info comes out, he's just desperate for something to come up to support his behavior in abusing Hans.

  • @EverHappyDude
    @EverHappyDude 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Evidence is not enough, we need proof.

  • @andrewhall7930
    @andrewhall7930 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Gabriel, props: It's nice to hear a commentator under 40 who doesn't say like, um, like um, ah, like every other sentence. Extremely professional and good observation.

  • @randomcheese1719
    @randomcheese1719 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The photos you don't see are the ones of them walking down the beach holding hands

  • @timmyshore3755
    @timmyshore3755 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    i’m somewhat of a newbie but how in the world does one cheat in chess ?

    • @jimraynor3767
      @jimraynor3767 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      By getting moves from a chess engine.

    • @jared8595
      @jared8595 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      there's chess engines that tell the player what would be the best move to play

    • @timmyshore3755
      @timmyshore3755 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@jimraynor3767 thanks jim

    • @timmyshore3755
      @timmyshore3755 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@jared8595 thanks jared

    • @a_lucientes
      @a_lucientes 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@jimraynor3767 Yes, but how would one do that over the board in such a heavvily controlled environment, where there are full body scans before going in, and broadcast delays? One would need a transmitter with a receiver and someone in the same room watching the game live, matching the moves on the engine, then sending the moves to Neimann, all in real time. How would this be possible, is the question. A computer scientist looked at the history of Neimann's games and concluded there is no evidence to suggest he is cheating. Anyone can have an off game.

  • @haskell_cat
    @haskell_cat 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7:44 "because if Magnus doesn't have anything concrete, this could do irreparable damage to Hans's career"
    Isn't it the opposite, that if there is concrete evidence of cheating then this is bad for Hans while if there isn't then it's bad for Magnus?

  • @sleepingintherain4967
    @sleepingintherain4967 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    imagine seeing the same movie a couple hundred times and then all of a sudden the whole movie changes almost like you are watching a entirely different movie. Players progress and evolve but they do not become entirely different players. Good call MC

  • @hopbup7401
    @hopbup7401 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If there is a signal coming in you should be able to detect it. Otherwise he has another player/spectator there giving signs. Either of those should be detectable and given as evidence.

    • @tonycook7679
      @tonycook7679 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sure sounds like the same kind of accusation that Bush made about Sadam Hussein to me.

  • @TheOne-bs9sn
    @TheOne-bs9sn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Why is it so hard to wait to have an opinion? And I ask that question to everyone. There's no need to take sides until the whole thing is figured out. Obviously if he doesn't have good justification for quitting its a huge blemish on his career and an irresponsible + selfish move. But why do we all have to have a definite opinion before we know everything?

  • @Atlargein
    @Atlargein 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think Capa had foreseen this in 1925 and reason he formulated a larger chessboard, Fischer also but with random chess. Imao.

  • @Confusione_Infinito_Absurdum
    @Confusione_Infinito_Absurdum 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Both of their reputations are on the line, which means Magnus has more to lose. Thereby, I believe Magnus.

  • @robertschriek812
    @robertschriek812 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just can’t think of any reason why Magnus could possibly not be truthful.

  • @erikreddington461
    @erikreddington461 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    And within an hour you posting this that's when Magnus decides to post the interview outright accusing Hans... It seems you were right on the money when everything keeps updating by the day

  • @richyalexander9206
    @richyalexander9206 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think we all misunderstood the issue. The fact of the matter is that Niemann cheated with Carlsen's girlfriend.

  • @coleclark6866
    @coleclark6866 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    so you think magnus is just doing this for fun? no ofc he doesnt wish to do this...

    • @jmj0795
      @jmj0795 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well if it turns out Hans isn't cheating then what? You gonna defend magnus still?

    • @jaideepshekhar4621
      @jaideepshekhar4621 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jmj0795 Tell me you will hire a babysitter who has killed two children just 3 years ago, one for money, and has probably also killed one last week. Will you look at his age? Fuck No! There are enough babysitters in the world, we can make do without this mf!

    • @pikachew7376
      @pikachew7376 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, Magnus is definitely enjoying this. Because Hans is a cheater and when the parasite disappears forever he'll feel a lot better.

  • @sepulatura4698
    @sepulatura4698 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    443B Facilitating match-fixing conduct
    or match-fixing arrangement. (b) causing
    a pecuniary detriment to any person;
    commits a crime.
    Maximum penalty-10 years imprisonment.

  • @juniorjohnson5961
    @juniorjohnson5961 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    No one has shown how they think he's cheating seems unfair you shouldn't accuse someone without proof !

  • @cosmicdepot2278
    @cosmicdepot2278 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am a rated player on lichess.I had a chess addiction from 2016 to 2021. I have logged over 200k games with seven different profiles.I have achieved 3/4 blitz and 1/0 ass beatings. I only play black.I am better now. I only play a few hours a week.

  • @markritchie8874
    @markritchie8874 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    “If Magnus has nothing concrete, this could do irreparable damage to Hans’s career”. Respectfully, this is nonsense. The damage to Hans’s career was done by Hans’s cheating, and by the very dubious decision to choose as a coach a known serial cheater. What “concrete evidence” can Magnus possibly supply, other than very suspicious stats - and there are plenty of those where Hans is concerned. 90% of the time when cheats are exposed the evidence is entirely circumstantial. Except in cases where complete idiots are caught on camera with an iPhone and their pants round their ankles, exposure and its punishment boil down to: “we think your play is suspiciously good, you’re banned”. The evidence against Hans is now overwhelming (that he has been cheating OTB as well as repeatedly online).

  • @jamesflames6987
    @jamesflames6987 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I can barely remember what I had for breakfast. What kind of a man can remember every move of multiple chess games he saw on a beach months ago?

  • @scotthjackson5651
    @scotthjackson5651 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    If Magnus has so much clout with the powers that be and he wanted to blacklist Hans, it would be (or is) stupid of him to personally do a silent rage quit since he is obviously putting his own reputation on the line by playing the hitman against Hans' future opportunities, with apparently no proof.

  • @lifes3ps
    @lifes3ps 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    danny rench came out on reddit and said magnus/c24 employees have not been granted or shown information on cheaters or their cheat detection. tho some top players have been allowed previously, but that was under NDA

  • @fireblade2681
    @fireblade2681 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I got suspicious when I saw the American flag next to his name. Maybe in the future we'll call him Niem Hanstrong.

  • @thebieniekmichal
    @thebieniekmichal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Good content and analysis 💪The man is innocent until someone proves, he is not

    • @maxmeier532
      @maxmeier532 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Magnus definitely winning the hairline game and Schwanz cant cheat at that. Or can he.

    • @RazorStrap
      @RazorStrap 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      This is not "Law & Order: Criminal Intent"
      There is not law enforcement or criminal court involved. Yet.

  • @tennissir1986
    @tennissir1986 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If Magnus thought Hans was a cheater - why did he agree to play him in that last tournament ?

    • @tennissir1986
      @tennissir1986 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@LJP12330 Actually Magnus stated that when Hans became a last minute replacement into the tournament when someone else withdrew - he had considered withdrawing before the tournament began.

  • @kategabon4458
    @kategabon4458 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I LIVE for these videos.

  • @Foxtrottangoabc
    @Foxtrottangoabc 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Did Hans just hustle all the pros in the beach tournament , losing all his games knowing he may get a wildcard in the cheat tournament as he would be perceived as not a threat

  • @GiodyneSTG
    @GiodyneSTG 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    After seeing what kind of technology can be small fitted Into AI, it's hard to know what's true or not. To top it off if you're already a good player, cheating will be hard to identify, possibly just to give you an edge

  • @bengun8540
    @bengun8540 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Greta vid. Hans cheated

  • @percyvolnar8010
    @percyvolnar8010 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    the 1D4 is okay. However, following that with 2C4 is utterly disrespectful... That alone, is worthy of a 'table-flip'.

  • @kylezo
    @kylezo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Carlsen played with 43% accuracy in their match, abysmal performance. There has been no evidence of OTB cheating presented. This is a dangerous game to be playing, the whole guilty until proven innocent spiel threatens to tarnish the reputation of chess for a generation.

    • @sameash3153
      @sameash3153 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Based

    • @SlightReturn666
      @SlightReturn666 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I whole heartedly agree

    • @auniquehandle
      @auniquehandle 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      88% accuracy i think

    • @timkom2289
      @timkom2289 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Magnus the World Chess Champion lost with white. Magnus the World Chess Champion cannot lost with white. Ever...Isnt that evidence solid enough for you? Anyway, magnus should come out with any hard evidence he has (I doubt he has any) or at least make concrete proposition, how to improve security or quit bullshiting around.