Why Magnus Carlsen Believes Hans Niemann Is Cheating
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2022
- I give my take on the recent developments from the Carlsen-Niemann controversy.
Anish Giri's analysis of the Magnus/Hans beach games: • Secret unpublished gam...
Photo Credit: Dean Mouhtaropoulos, Lennart Ootes/Saint Louis Chess Club, Chess24, B. Jothi Ramalingam/The Hindu
#chess #magnuscarlsen #hansniemann
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If you got caught cheating twice, it means you cheated more than twice.
exactly
I'd wager at this point Hans was induced to cheat by a leak on purpose to see if he'd take the bait. Entrapment only counts against law enforcement not private citizens. A cheater through and through couldn't abide getting destroyed by memes on the beach in August with the black pieces.
twice online
Definitely
People change.
Them having played casually plenty is significant. Noone is cheating in the beach games. If HN real rating is 2400ish, it takes very little for MC to realize that. 2850 loses to 2400 only when they blunder badly. They never get outplayed. They know the difference. When MC crushes him casually in non-competitive games and the guy dramatically raises his level in competition, it is very obvious for top level players. Cannot even stress enough the level of conviction MC could have even with no hard evidence. I’d put all my money on the fact that Magnus is not wrong here. He wouldn’t have taken such course if there was any doubt in his mind.
Hans did hide his true strength. His ability to cheat at will.
Obviously Hans improved by studying, practicing and playing chess everyday? So people can't improve without cheating according to you?
@Drunk Town He must be hiding his true strength not just in the beach game. Must have been hiding it in many competitions and games. He even must have been hiding it during the Julius Baer Generation Cup... Not likely.
His rating is near 2700. That is a super GM level. And yes, a 2700 could defeat a near 2900. The term is "could". Didnt you know even some intermediate players can defeat 2500+ rating players? There is this thing called PREPARATION or LUCK when your opponent blunders, and when I tell you that super GM blunders too, I shit you not.
@@malibunights7108 If we were to assume the cheating hypothesis to be true, he is way below his current rating. The next best guess would be the rating he had before the epic raise. That was sub-2500. Also, if you look at his post-game analysis, it comes nowhere near super GM level. It was truly shocking how bad he was, incl. assessing -5 eval to be winning, etc. Other GM-s were dumbfounded when they saw that.
Anish can analyze Han's game better than Hans himself
That is a good statement.
*Chess speaks for itself. - Han's Niemann.* 🤣
Hans is just a kid, and his ability to analyze and communicate hasn’t caught up his intuition or his knowledge. Anish is a lot more experienced and does have better communicative abilities. But this is no reason to dismiss Niemann. Let’s see how he talks about chess in 5 years when all his capacity is fully formed.
Hans "I dOnT nEeD VaRiAtIoNs" Niemann
Just becuase Hans' social & communication skills aren't as good as his chess obviously doesn't mean he cheated..... some scientists have social anxiety and can't do presentations well, are we going discredit a scientist who can't speak in public well? Grow up
Anish remembering both games to this extent is extraordinary.
Not at all. Players at this level can remember unnumberes games from both their own and others play.
I read somewhere that Magnus Carlson has upwards of 1000 notable historic chess games memorized that he can replay perfectly at will right from memory. This is 'savant' territory, it seems to me.
pretty standard
@@helgedragseth4599 yes but a random blitz game on the beach from 2 weeks before ? It may be common business for them but still so incredible...
@@charlescushing1 *Carlsen
So unlucky Hans is, he only cheated twice and got caught both times! Of course he never cheated between those two events and never after the last time he got exposed two years ago.
*Yes, after getting caught multiple times, Han's a 100% reform cheater. No reason to think he would ever cheat again in this lifetime.* 🤣🤣
@@radicalrick9587 was online, not otb
It's easier to cheat OTB because they don't collect timing data which is a major component of cheat detection
Still, past behavior is the best indicator for future behavior.
Magnus most certainly had those games with (even casual) memorized in his head and analyzed them. Especially if these were unique openings to see how Hans would handle them.
In a casual beach setting and unusual openings with magnus as black, hans struggled and couldn't take over Magnus. This told magnus that Hans' online win against him was possible but magnus knew that if he played unusually Hans himself wouldn't know how to interact against that and most likely crumble.
I liken this to Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was famous for holding practices in basketball off seasons and inviting all the best NBA players to them to compete. What Michael was really doing was measuring his opponents, feigning friendship in some cases, and understanding their game from a physical and mental level on an intimate environment. It's what the best of the best do. Magnus more than likely was doing something similar here to evaluate where Hans real level was outside of competition and scrutiny and came to the conclusion (most likely) that he is a talented player, but at the low GM level.
Then magically in the st Louis cup, Hans comes back storming against magnus and wins when magnus has white, already an advantage.
This is where things become fishy for magnus because he doesn't understand how he played Hans casually and crushes him but then Hans is able to find engine level moves later on that he couldn't before with no pressure.
I believe this, combined with Hans previous cheating and an unusually high win rate against magnus in recent cups is what is leading Magnus to believe Hans is cheating to some level.
We have to realize other super gms and gms really struggle against magnus, anish giri has a meme about drawing all the time, pragg was crushed in this week's tournament from magnus, and other gms on online games. Even against Hikaru, Hikaru makes very unusual moves or blunders against magnus (see Gotham chess breakdowns for some of those matches) where a former number 2 also struggled.
Yes all these guys have wins over magnus, but Hans has a very interesting edge over him after multiple tournaments (FTX and st louis) which combined which combined rapid rise in OTB rating, online cheating in the past, Hans hiding his coach from public view that leans towards magnus having strong suspicions. Magnus probably even asked chess.com for Hans' online gameplay and found more suspicious activity after these losses when he could easily crush Hans in a casual beach game.
All of this, including, other gm interviews (see Hikarus reactipn to firouza talking about cheating) and firouza talking about a game at a Canadian cup where he strongly suspected someone cheating OTB but the fide anti cheating program didn't see anything. Hikaru (in the same video) also mentioned something similar happened to him and that player was proven to cheat but was swept under the wrong.
All of this means that OTB cheating is very hard to catch, the current fide anti cheating programs are inconsistent, and GMs have to use their own gameplay knowledge and memorization to determine what exactly is occurring with players and when magnus is the best in the world and can recall games from a decade ago, he clearly knows something is off with someone purportedly at a near super GM level but is missing some of the common characteristics of super GMs.
I'm not saying Hans cheated recently but there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction...what's also quite puzzling is a STRONG change in Hans behavior comparing his 16/17 year old streaming personality to the 19 year old version of him. In just 2 years. A lot of unusual activity for someone 19 years old but all of this said. Innocent until proven guilty and everyone in the world blunders at some point in chess, even magnus Carlson.
@@pikachew7376 it is easier? HAHAHAAHA what are you, an expert now? 😂😂😂 EASIER. HAHAHAHAHAHA LMAO
Fabiano said on his podcast that Magnus has had suspicions about Hans for a long time before this scandal broke out
Are you familiar with the Mike Postle scandal? Every good poker player knows the fool was cheating. Explaining it to oitsiders was the problem.
I see no such consensus with good or expert chess players though.
@@natemendsen1629 Theres the potential of getting sued for saying Hans is xheating here, not the other way around, Holmes.
this is completely different. mike postle you could statistically prove he was cheating. here it's just hearsay vs hearsay. he would have to bring in a computer somehow to cheat
@@sereneoceanbreeze4447 Yeah but we have plenty who are saying they see no signs of it. They are not even trying to play overt false coyness here. Just like Magnus here they could make their feelings known, but that is not what I am seeing .
Hell we have a cheating expert saying this
th-cam.com/video/DDRLZTkd30c/w-d-xo.html
@@unrestrictedpot3003 Mike Postle had an incredible winrate. But then so has Niemann by the way his rating has jumped.
We keep forgetting that an expert cheating is trickier to catch than a lower-level chess player. The reason being, as Magnus clearly stated over a year ago, that there are only a few key points in the game in which the right choice is difficult to calculate. You only need the correct path to take at only one or two key juncture points. Not for the entire game! To me, it is this juncture point that Magnus views his opponent had cheated on as to pick the correct path is beyond his level of 2688!
We keep forgetting that mathematics exists and what you describe can be statistically analyzed.
@@supremespanker I watched that same video
@@supremespanker Exactly. The baseline is at locating all these pivotal points that the game relies on. At the super Gm level, their pivotal points are not that many (perhaps 1 or 2), whereas, to a lower level GM or IM, they will have more pivotal points (4, or 5) and to the rest of us a lot more (10 to 15). The Super GM will know all these lower pivotal points. Magnus knows these pivotal points and Hans clearly made the correct moves, and to Magnus suspicion, Hans should not have been able to!
So, for a mathematic model to pick this out, requires a Super Gm to show to the computer mathematician where all these pivotal points are!
For example, if the model only looks at 15 pivotal points, and Hans throughout all his games from the past 2 years gets 80% and at the competition with Magnus gets 80%, then it will not pick up cheating. However, if the super GM pivotal points are 1 or 2, and over the past 2 years, Hans gets only 50% (just as he did at the beach playing against Magnus), and at the competition gets 100%, then, something is suspicious!
Maybe Magnus started believing that he's unbeatable. Sounds like Kasparov when he lost to deep blue. Complaining about cheating.
Edit: Thanks for all the love. I just want to say that unless we have any actual evidence, we shouldn't harass a young player so much that it ends his career.
PS don't know much about Hans. Not a fan either. Lots of respect for Magnus. He's the GOAT.
@@akashsinha2880 Maybe we shouldn't quickly judge the situation. Let both come out with facts and statements of what exactly happened. Your maybe comment is biased against magnus.
Cheaters don't stop cheating. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
The issue isn’t whether he cheated OTB, it’s that he cheated to raise his rating so he could play better players and get invited to money events. We will see what Magnus says but that is a big deal in my mind.
you wouldn’t be writing this comment if Hans lost at the Sinquefield Cup. This is what you call “moving the goal posts” internet forgets extremely fast.
@@ceoherohub2584 No, I'm in favor of treating Hans as innocent, but I think he makes a good point here.
Thix x1000
In the match today, in the interview after winning, Magnus said that tomorrow (Sep 26) he would provide a statement regarding the affair with Hans.
About time.
"Affair"? 👀
That was a violation.
He said tomorrow or in the upcoming days. It's good to be accurate, less confusion and false expectation.
Happy to see your videos blow up! Great stuff!
I thought Niemann didn't cheat either, but it doesn't matter if he has. Niemann has posed a foundation shifting question to the integrity of the Chess world "Can I cheat and play again?"
No GM will be able to lose against a known cheater and not wonder "Did I lose because they cheated again?". People have and will quit pursuing careers due to cheaters.
There are already Modern day video games that have died out due to cheaters feeding their vanity as-well for this exact same reason, its a no win scenario for chess.
What if Magnus cheats all the time?
@@waluigi43 dumb question. magnus has never shown himself cheating on stream and admitting to it
@@jeccdog7584 If cheating is so easy, what makes you think he never did it?
@@waluigi43 dude that's a very dumb thing to say. Magnus hasn't admitted to cheating!
@@waluigi43 Hans has admitted to cheating and most of all got caught twice. None of this has happened with or to Magnus. Also, if Magnus was as much of a cheater as Hans may have been, their game would've been computer like and eventually end up in a draw.
Magnus did lose a game in ftx cup to Hans. Followed by consecutive wins for Magnus. I do believe hans is fishy.
I find it funny that Magnus, who did so much for chess as a whole and is that well known good guy persona gets accused of being a sour loser by some or even is doubted.
I don't know if this story is true, but... I once heard Hans was caught by his girlfriend with another woman, even though his moves were 100 % accurate. As he was caught in the act of cheating and the girlfriend was asking what on Earth he was doing, he simply replied: "Well, I think the position speaks for itself."
When his girlfriend demanded to know why, Niemann, noting that the woman was very large breasted, replied "The chest speaks for itself"
These jokes also speak for themselves
Sounds like that old story about Noah Webster who wrote America's lst dictionary. He was caught kissing the pretty house maid and his wife said "Noah! I'm surprised at you." Ever the word guy he said "No dear, I am the one who is 'surprised' you are 'astonished'.
cheating in his relationship isnt cheating in the game lmao. The fact that the new kid on the block was caught cheating on multiple occasions on the game is already very suspect
@@frylock6403 the joke just went completely over your head didnt it?
I don't think a known cheater can really "remain innocent". I get it, you meant this particular time there's no proof of him cheating, but it's a misleading choice of words. He doesn't remain innocent. He's a known cheater.
To be very extreme. A serial murder isn't guilty because he's a serial murder. He can be innocent of this crime even if he cheated before. 2 separate occasions. And people aren't witch hunting hans for his past cheating it's for the potential cheating
@@jmj0795 I'm still not inviting the serial murderer to go hunting with me alone in a forest, even if innocent this time.
@@jmj0795 Tell me you will hire a babysitter who has already killed two children just 3 years ago, and probably killed one last week. Will you look at his age? Fuck no! There are enough babysitters in the world, we can make do without this mf.
not only that, he was mentored by a known cheater who had also been banned several times.
Exactly, he remains guilty.
7:37 - Magnus doesn't need to have anything concrete for Hans to have irreparable damage to his career, Hans ALREADY did that to himself! He has no one but himself to blame.
Hans is promoting his TH-cam/Instagram channels or personality.
@@maicolc7216 Pretty much!
not true
Moreover, Magnus just has to demonstrate that Hans acted improperly at some point in some way and that it's very bad for chess. I think we all.know this doesn't specifically have to do with the Hans/Magnus game at St Louis.
He already has a criminal record for past cheating...twice even....
About the beach game not being recorded. The camera visible in the picture at 5:46 wasn't recording it?
Getting crushed twice with white pieces, then crushing the same opponent in a big tournament playing with black pieces I MEAN SEEERRIOUSLY!!!
Hans Niemann was born to push pawns in bizarre and unpredictable ways. You're just being ignorant
What is that? Everyone plays badly at times. People are really having a low bar of evidence.
@@jordandthornburg the evidence is that he cheats.....caught 2 times.... then he only admits to cheating 2 times.. so he is obviuzly not honest about his own cheating even when caught.......pluss its easier to cheat over the board because there really no system to check if he got a viberator up his ass
@@jordandthornburgI mean according to the games on the beach Magnus played dubious or bad openings but still EASILY crushed him TWICE, you wouldn't expect that kind of an opponent to wipe Magnus off the board like that in the end game with black pieces, I will say I agree that it is not concrete but circumstancial evidence, but at the same time it definitely does not help in reducing the suspicions
Niemann is screwed either way. This is always going to follow him. The lesson is don't cheat, even when it seems unimporatant. You never know how it might come back to haunt you.
Or don't stand for being bullied by a GM known for his ego and unsportsmanlike temper whenever he loses.
The board of the Sinquefield Cup's statement that there was no indication of cheating within their own event is infinitely more reliable than Magnus' suspicions and the platform in which he has been sponsored by (and his company recently acquired by) for years. Unless Magnus can provide evidence that he was cheated against, his tantrum will back himself into a corner. Throwing Niemann's credibility into question due to his historic cheating is one thing, throwing the Sinquefield Cup into disrepute is how to further build a reputation of being unsportsmanlike and be uninvited from events/lose titles.
no the lesson is dont get caught
The beach photo was likely a set up photo shoot on request of the arrangers meant for promoting
Magnus knows because his radio receiver was jammed by Hans' receiver.
i can already imagine those chinese BT adapter voices going "yo butooth is veady to pair!"
Magnus is the no 1 Chess player and a solid Poker Player. He loves a challenge and he loves being beaten or winning against players who give him a challenge. Magnus knows instinctively just like he knows when someone is bluffing in Poker. I have to trust Magnus instinct on this especially when he is completely on top of his game right now
Instinct isn't evidence. You can't convict people on instinct, no matter how much you trust it.
I only trust real evidence, not instincts. Magnus is misbehaving and damaging a young player's chess career, you can't allow this without good evidence. I don't care how convinced he is Hans is cheating, Magnus is not the arbiter of truth here.
@@hiraldosternflyer7112
It is not his job to investigate though. He just sensed something is wrong so he draw the attention of the chess world to Hans so the authorized people could look at the matter deeply.
This is the same in poker when a guy named Mike Postle suddenly become god-like in casino games (broadcasted live), when he was playing extremely well to the point of being impossible for someone at his level. He is making decisions as if he knows exactly what his opponents are holding. While legit high skilled pros could narrow down range of hands, this guy seems to know exactly what 2 cards his opponent holds.
There was this hand where he called all in pre-flop with a bad hand that it is a very clear fold unless two of the other players who went all in both have AK (because then they both block the cards that they should hit a pair with postflop thus diminishing their odds to improve). And yet he called and both of them indeed holds AK. This is just one of many suspect hands btw.
It is so hard to prove but you know something is off. Just like when a magician does a trick in front of us, we know there is a trick but we can't explain how. Yes the burden of proof falls upon the accuser but you can't really blame them if they will avoid playing you in the future. This is what MC is doing on Hans right now. And knowing that Hans have cheated before, we can't blame MC to think that Hans has no problem cheating if he can find a clever way of doing it. But then again if MC didn't protest, there a possibility that a cheater could find his way to the top ranks.
Magnus has already won. Get ready for the bloodbath
@@johnweak628 that makes much sense. As has been said by others magnus needs to lay his cards on the table which apparently he will this week. For the sake of everyone.
The Sinquefield game analisys by Dr. Ken Regan shows that Nieman was not overplaying in that game but Magnus was really underplaying.
I think Hans Nieman was not cheating in Sinquefield cup but all this suspicion was so far up in Magnus head that he fumbled against him in the game.
FroM my understanding the reason there was a thought of cheating in the Sinquefeld ow however you spell is that on a move that Nieman played, he said that he prepared that exact move against Magnus exactly 21 moves in believe because he studied Magnus’ opening . The problem was, the opening that magnus played, he had never played that opening before to get to that position. That’s what was SUS.
well, couldn't that mean that he just think that was possible move even knowing that Carlsen hasn't played that before but knowing that position at the board could occur (having made his studies) and for that reason might be better to be prepared for the move.
Hey curious what microphone are you using?
HyperX Quadcast!
I think there is mounting evidence that Hans cheated. First of all he claimed Magnus had played the same position in a previous game and he happened to prepare it the day before but no one seems to be able to find that game and he never pointed to an exact date or who Magnus played against. If what he said was true he would have done that. And if he didn't prepare why did he claim he did? That's pretty suspicious. Also I've seen a video that claims he has been playing with incredible, inhuman accuracy at times while at other times he's average at best. That also seems weird. It's very strange to have such a performance range, you're either superhuman or you're not, it's not like he's good and then at times he's brilliant. He's good and at times he's a machine, that's different from being brilliant that's a whole different level of play. He has games where he played the Stockfish top rated move 48 times in a row.To be able to do that (if that's even possible but let's say it is) you have to be wired differently and that wiring should manifest in all your games. Hans looks very, very mortal in other games and that's what is suspicious.
Wait, Hans got caught cheating twice at 12-16 years old, which means the whole time in between was almost 5 years!!! Dude, that's a veteran cheater!!! it hasn't even been 3 years since he was last caught, and that's assuming he's better at cheating now. He was also dishonest in his interview for "coming clean" about cheating twice, but that was actually forced because streamers exposed him, and he had to respond. He turned silent once chesscom said he cheated more. Seeing how sly he was in the interview for claiming that he was transparent and courageous, his credibility is still sht as always.
Btw, I'm not saying hans is guilty in the game against Magnus or not, but he sure is sus as heck given he has no record of redemption (like he claimed) amongst other random claims he made in interviews. All i'm saying is Hans was and is sus, and if he had a clean record, then we ignore it. But since he is sus while having a past record, then anyone has the right to avoid him, even without proof (they only cannot punish or judge without proof, but it is a right of everyone to avoid a suspicious ex-offender that never showed rehabilitation).
Afterward, Hans's interviews were also sus. He was called out by streamers (which he said he watched) for being caught twice officially. In the interview, he twisted it to say he is courageous and transparent because nobody expects him to come clean all by himself (this blatant lie is immediately sus and not matching a person in actual redemption). In the same interview, he twisted his training in chess to equate to a redemption journey (again a convenient twist of the truth). He also only called out famous names only (magnus and hikaru), ignoring Eric who is the only one basically declaring Hans a cheater (the actual insinuation that Hans ignored).
He also hid several facts. (1) that it was 5 years in between the 2 times he was officially caught, and has only been 2-3 years since. (2) that he had more cheating allegations than he admitted. While hiding these facts, he claimed he was transparent and courageous, hiding it by raging emotionally.
He also raged as if he had nothing to lose. Raging is 50/50 afaik. You can be guilty or innocent and rage, as it's a typical response for both. Raging doesn't earn any pity points at all as long as things don't add up. However, ppl ignored his past record the moment he raged. They forgot that everyone has the right to avoid a currently suspicious ex-offender that never showed rehabilitation. It's our right without infringing on their rights, but the moment Hans raged, everyone got fooled and said Magnus can't avoid hans as long as hans indirectly suffers from his avoidance.
Hans is a prolific cheater. Cheating is a way of life to him. And rage, the only emotion he is capable of experiencing is rage and maybe jealousy? What a nice person.
Speaking of streaming, you gotta love how his eyes constantly dart rapidly to the side every second or two when he's on facecam. And how he tries to hide his "tic" by resting his hand on his forehead or twirling his hair. Perhaps he can consider a career as an actor? Or maybe a clown? Because I'm sure he's crying on the inside.
I saw another video where someone went back and ran some of his other games through an older engine and a lot of what he did showed up as best moves, chessmvp channel or something similar
@@pikachew7376 how does one cheat in an in person chess match? Is there some technique similar to card counting for chess?
@@God_first_1999 It's easiest to do with a co-conspirator, especially in the classical format. Niemann's coach, another known cheater, can give hand signals or audio cues for telling Niemann what move to make, or they could have a conversation when Niemann gets up from the board. There's also technological aids, like an earpiece, a buzzer, etc.
After reading this, it would be strange if anyone still on Hans side. Either anti magnus or just troll.
When Andrii Punin analysed Niemanns recent games, he used stockfish as a side-by-side comparison. When 22 moves are identical to stockfish recommendations without deviation, I can understand very well why some people would sooner believe in flat-earth theories before they believe he is playing clean.
A fishing software?
@@JaredDeinlein ...Stockfish is the name of the currently most efficient chess-computer out there.
So youre telling me a prodigy super GM shouldn't know his theory and be able to play accurately?
@@HateMachinist how did hans cheat? No smartphones were out
@@himalayo could jimi hendrix explain how he just did a 25 min improv on his guitar? Probably not.
For sure it's innocent until proven guilty, but at the same time it's so obvious like 2+2:
Hans has couple of times cheated or more + his coach Was cheating + his gm norms with average 20 cp loss + his performance sometimes poor sometimes sus + he woke up and became a chess genius/prodigy at the age of 18? Or 19? + I don't need more pluses to assume he is a cheater
I'm a terrible chess player; let's get that out there. But at any rate I don't understand how you could cheat "over the board" ... it's easy on computers but how the heck do you do it live, especially when there is 15 minute delay on the broadcast?
@@SlightReturn666 as much as I recall the 15 min delay was after the withdrawal. As for the cheating it's tough to say how, mb the opening itself was a really good trap by Magnus and the "response" was surprisingly good.
@@SlightReturn666 this seems to be a common point on this saga. Just because it’s hard to understand how cheating may be occurring does not mean cheating isn’t taking place. This has been witnessed frequently in multiple other sport doping and cheating scandals.
@@stefanleonte3155 I reluctantly have to agree with you on that one. I used to be a very serious amateur bicycle racer ~20 years ago, and I followed the pros every day. It was so so so sad that, e.g., in the Tour de France, if a rider had an unusually good stage, everyone would immediately clamor "LE DOPAGE!!!!!" ... and much more often than not, they were ultimately proven right.
What sealed it for me is how bad Hans' post match interview was - he could not show variation. His analysis made no sense and it was like he had no clue why he made the moves he made when he made them.
It makes no sense for Carlsen to go this far without evidence because he would ruin his own reputation with false allegations.
Magnus Carlsen has checkmated Hans Niemann in real life. He has him dead to rights.
Unfortunately that could never happen. He's already a legend in the chess community, he could literally pee on the chess board during a game and people would still smile and clap
@@unitystarlight13 no they wouldn’t. They would call him a sore loser who bullies an up and coming teenager.
There's the factual conversation "did Hans Cheat?" Which is useless to debate since there's no evidence to suggest that he did. There is, however, the conversation of integrity and honesty (two things Hans seemingly lacks) and how much competitive chess depends on people following the rules of fair play. I would say that anyone who has been caught cheating in tournaments with cash prizes should be banned.
i think people are having trouble understanding in their brains that he was 12 and 16. read that again. TWELVE AND SIXTEEN. you want him to be banned for life for mistakes he made as a 10th grader?
@@neptunexii8927 He apparently lied about the extent of his online cheating just a couple of weeks ago. And yes, there should be severe punishments for cheating as it completely ruins the game.
@@neptunexii8927 Cheating from 12 till 16 is no joke, plus at 16 you should already know the consequences. Moreover it isn't like he's in his 30s and left his past in the shadows, he's just barely 19 meaning that (if we can believe his words, which I don't think we can) the last time he cheated was JUST 2 years ago. Which is basically yesterday in global time.
@@neptunexii8927 Hi. Yes I do want him banned. He is an obvious cheater.
@@neptunexii8927 Yes since his contemporaries are also young prodigies. Prag is 17 and Alireza is 19. They were both playing in the competitive scene around the same time Hans began. Heck, Magnus defeated then-World Champion Garry Kasparov when he was 13. THIRTEEN! Age does not matter in chess. The fact that Hans cheated as a kid is irrelevant. He CHEATED--ergo, he should have been banned.
This is a great video I didnt see the beach or the magnus chess partnership makes you think!
Do you have a photo showing clearly who is playing chess on the beach or video of these games? Cause I only see the back of some person head and a guy that doesn’t look like Magnus.
Seems like Gabriel Sams is hand-in-glove with Hans Niemann. So confident that the cheats used are undetectable 😝. Problem is, in every game, if you cheat even just once and get caught and admit to it, the whole lobby will always be suspicious and hate you.
Hans esta muy cheater. The leopard, it do not change it's spots.
I can't believe some people commented "Hans was hiding his true strength" LMFAO. It's a fact he was caught cheating at 12 and 16 years old. He's 19 years old now. Do you think it's that long ago? He's young and desperate for fame. That's why. This is not an anime where you just get good suddenly cuz you're hiding your strength. In real life, there's a cap at to which skill level you can perform. Everybody in basketball trains hard but not everyone becomes Lebron or Michael Jordan.
The photos you don't see are the ones of them walking down the beach holding hands
Hi Gabriel, a video well done. Liked and subbed. That said, why on earth would the arguably best chess player ever make such waves and potential allegations unless he knew it to be true. If wrong, surely he is tainting his own legacy. Not to mention the game that was actually played between the two of them coincidentally was emulated to the exact moves Niemann played. Strange.
He’s tainting his legacy regardless in my mind. As a grandmaster at his level you don’t hurl allegations when losing without very solid evidence. He doesn’t have that evidence and he knows it so he left it implicit, the people running the event do NOT think Hans cheated. At this point in my mind even if he did cheat, and again it there’s only circumstantial “evidence”, this is not how someone at Magnus’ level should deal with it. It’s shameful.
@@WelfareChrist How would you deal with it if you were Magnus?
When you know someone beat you by cheating, what's he supposed to do just say "good game" and act like everything's normal?
@@alkaholic4848 that's exactly what you do when you can't prove an allegation, especially at that level. You certainly don't traffic in gossip the way magnus did
@@WelfareChrist You definitely don't.
When you get fairly beaten then the professional thing is to take it on the chin and accept it.
But nobody in a highly competitive game/sport who is confident that they were beaten by cheating is going to just lay back and take it.
@@alkaholic4848 I think the problem here is you seem certain he cheated and I'm not. It's possible, but I'm not absolutely sure he did. People kept coming up with outlandish ways he could've cheated but nothing was ever proven. I think it's crazy to destroy his entire future in the sport over the 'possibility with no proof' angle.
When someone you can beat easily has patches of brilliance and can crush you in certain games, this is highly suspicious.
Then again, suspicion is not proof. Anti-cheating measures should be strengthened, but people should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
I find the title clickbaity, since you do not give the answer in the video.
Under the boardwalk song is about Hans and Magnus
I want to hear theories on HOW Niemann cheated.
He admitted he cheated "twice". Like my neighbor, he said he took just 1 guava in our backyard, but already took a dozen. What do you think when Hans said "twice"? My wife says, once a cheater always a cheater.
You should also add the today's response of magnus on this topic that he will make a statement in the sooner upcoming days.
1:28 that’s not hans is it?
I LIVE for these videos.
Those nano-micro wireless earbuds are impossible to detect with the equipment being used at these events. You could set it up to give you the best or the second best move from AI computer easily. I do not know why people have not mentioned this yet.. too stupid i guess.
By far the best video I've seen on this yet. Subbed :)
Someone please explain to me how you can cheat in chess game. It is watched very closely?
chess software. a computer. bluetooth. a vibrating receiver up his ass.
6:25 BRO THANK YOU. Finally someone said it. I was thinking this from the beginning and no one talked about it. This all occurred after Magnus started dealing with chesscom, obviously they told him something (that honestly might have been an error to do so) regarding Hans and his history on their site.
@@rob4419 ...sorry that sounds random as hell. People talk. They hang out, they gossip. Especially when they are engaged in business together. I don't see a reason to complicate it.
I think it's more likely that he saw what Hans' level was when they were playing at the beach, and understood that something wasn't right when Hans suddenly turned into a genius- level player in an official tournament.
You might want to hold off on taking Hans' side, as the statistical analysis of Hans' games is pretty damning. Either he is the best chess mind to ever exist, and by a huge margin, or he has been cheating. Nakamora had a pretty good break-down of this that you might want to watch. To put this to numbers, if Hans is NOT cheating, expect him to be a 3000+ world champion in the future. It really is one or the other. Super SUPER GM or cheater.
You have a much better understanding of this than I do. What is your view of the infamous game where Hans on black won against that crazy opening from Magnus? What are the odds of a normal human being being able to parry and ultimately defeat such a rare set of moves?
that thing in the beach picture in the lower left corner looks like a camera rig of sorts.
Hans looks like an evil villain
i’m somewhat of a newbie but how in the world does one cheat in chess ?
By getting moves from a chess engine.
there's chess engines that tell the player what would be the best move to play
@@jimraynor3767 thanks jim
@@jared8595 thanks jared
@@jimraynor3767 Yes, but how would one do that over the board in such a heavvily controlled environment, where there are full body scans before going in, and broadcast delays? One would need a transmitter with a receiver and someone in the same room watching the game live, matching the moves on the engine, then sending the moves to Neimann, all in real time. How would this be possible, is the question. A computer scientist looked at the history of Neimann's games and concluded there is no evidence to suggest he is cheating. Anyone can have an off game.
It seems like Magnus start thinking Hans was not concentrated or focus during the Subfield game, but Hans said he had an unbelievable computer preparation so he didn't have to think for a long time... This could have been the main trigger if the whole "witch-hunt"...
True but computer preparation can only take you so far, not the entire game.
on other hand if magnus does not have anything to say than his reputation is in question though
I truly believe that Hans briefly fondled Magnus' balls under the table at the Sinquefield cup and this whole thing has nothing to do with Hans cheating and everything to do with Magnus feeling violated but too embarrassed to tell anyone about it (yet). This would explain why he decided to not even show up after the third round and it would also explain why he's been silent this whole time about the matter (still uncomfortable and really pondering whether he wants to tell the whole world about how he BELIVES he got fondled.. I mean, just think of all the memes alone). This would also explain Magnus' cryptic tweet about him getting "in big trouble" if he said anything. He probably suspects he was fondled but doesn't know for sure. He knows that Hans can just as easily claim that it was his shoe that accidentally rubbed up against him. Then Magnus would look terrible for the ridiculous allegation against Hans in front of the whole world. It would also explain why he lost that game against Hans that day because he couldn't stop thinking about whether he truly did get a little d*** twist from Hans, or if it in fact was just Hans shoe or knee that brushed up against him. I think in the coming days Magnus will finally reveal what he really thinks happened under that table that day 😬.
This is honestly the best theory I've heard so far. I hadn't even really considered this but it actually makes complete sense and precisely explains all of Magnus actions. You MUST be a detective for a living. Good work!
😂YMMD!
LoL 😂
This makes so much sense. Thank you for writing this out
And when other GMs like Nepo talk about Hans "cheating", they don't mean chess, but what happens under the table.
This is WWE for people that aren't mindless. ❤
If there is a signal coming in you should be able to detect it. Otherwise he has another player/spectator there giving signs. Either of those should be detectable and given as evidence.
Sure sounds like the same kind of accusation that Bush made about Sadam Hussein to me.
After seeing what kind of technology can be small fitted Into AI, it's hard to know what's true or not. To top it off if you're already a good player, cheating will be hard to identify, possibly just to give you an edge
Once upon a time there was a young kid who wanted a new iphone. He went into a store to buy one but he only had $300 and the phone he wanted did cost $600. This was a major blow to his ego. He didnt want to earn the missing money, he deserved a new phone right now. So he went ahead and stole it. Bad luck that the store had cameras and so he was stoped before he could leave the store. But he was just a kid, so we can forget about that. He wouldnt do it again. Or so we thought. But for him, this was just the beginning. Over the next couple of years he would steal everything he wanted but couldnt afford. One day, about 3 years later he made a stupid mistake...and was caught AGAIN. This time the punishment was a bit harder but still, he was just a kid. A kid with a bad habit but still, we can forget about it. He sure wont do it again, will he? But for him? It was just a reminder to train harder and become a much better thief to never NEVER ever get caught again. Giving up stealing? Thats not an option, at all. By now his self image, life style and persona are all strongly dependent on a constant inflow of free stuff he didnt earn. After all even his mother is so proud, her little Hans is bringing home so many nice things.
Except, so far, we don't have a camera showing that he was cheating. So, your little analogy doesn't really work.
Guy really created a whole copypasta. Hans really is living rent free in your head lol
lol did he just use an "The Onion" article?
*Not many people realize "The Onion" is a satire site like the "Babylon Bee"* *Fake News You Can Trust. - Babylon Bee* 🤣
where was the observer
so you think magnus is just doing this for fun? no ofc he doesnt wish to do this...
Well if it turns out Hans isn't cheating then what? You gonna defend magnus still?
@@jmj0795 Tell me you will hire a babysitter who has killed two children just 3 years ago, one for money, and has probably also killed one last week. Will you look at his age? Fuck No! There are enough babysitters in the world, we can make do without this mf!
Yes, Magnus is definitely enjoying this. Because Hans is a cheater and when the parasite disappears forever he'll feel a lot better.
And suddenly my interest in chess goes beyond One Night in Bangkok. Thanks for this explanation, much appreciated.
I think we all misunderstood the issue. The fact of the matter is that Niemann cheated with Carlsen's girlfriend.
another clip came, he mentioned the word cheating when asked about niemann
And within an hour you posting this that's when Magnus decides to post the interview outright accusing Hans... It seems you were right on the money when everything keeps updating by the day
imagine seeing the same movie a couple hundred times and then all of a sudden the whole movie changes almost like you are watching a entirely different movie. Players progress and evolve but they do not become entirely different players. Good call MC
Great video, im happy that YT recommended it
I understand Magnus. He wants a fair game, and he sensed that something was wrong with the match.
Most people don't require evidence for their beliefs, Gabriel. There is not a single ridiculous idea you can think of that some person does not sincerely believe.
Well stated. A lot of people relate to their beliefs as the truth, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Exactly. Like Hans only cheated twice LMAO. XD
Magnus is definitely a rational guy. I'm sure his actions are also evidence based.
I've heard from Norwegians and other European News sources that Magnus is actually a huge prick. He gets violent, anti social and egotistical when things aren't going his way so I wouldn't be so fast to jump on the Magnus bandwagon. He could be easily accusing Hans (thus ruining his life) because he was salty he lost.
@@chuifongtam4703 Liar.
@@chuifongtam4703 Omg...you better back up what you're saying about Magnus
@@chuifongtam4703 Proof? Where's the link? You heard from Norwegians and news sources--OK, which ones? Go ahead, provide the source--otherwise you're just slandering and it's pretty weak. "I've heard from Chinese and Asian news sources that Putin is actually a really nice guy." How does that sound to you? Yeah, better provide some context here or your words are just smoke in the wind, the kind that will blow back in your face and make your eyes burn.
Magnus off the cuff accused me of cheating mid match like 15 years ago, was only a kid during an exhibition match. Had no idea who I was playing at the time, was the only one out of a group of 30 who managed to make him sit and calculate.
It’s the only first hand experience I’ve got of him, but he does say things impulsively.
So if hes cheating how? Who is helping him and how.
I'm not a chess player but I've been following this and what I can't figure out is how do you cheat in chess when you're playing in front of people and if you have somebody giving you the correct move somehow why doesn't that person just play
most likely a chess computer is used to get the best moves and these information is somehow transmitted to the player
There are several ways to cheat in chess. People have tinkered with the chess pieces, the board, used electronic assistance.. and I'm sure there are other methods that haven't been discovered, yet 😅
The burden of proof is with Magnus, I think he has genuine reason to think Hans is cheating but it's possible he's just mistaken. Hopefully we get some strong evidence either way soon.
There is no way for Hans to present additional "strong evidence". The strong evidence is that many experts in cheating detection looked and found nothing. He may be clean as a whistle here and still, there's nothing more he could do. So for Magnus to say he hopes more info comes out, he's just desperate for something to come up to support his behavior in abusing Hans.
Great video and info. I believe that Hans is cheating though, Magnus is really serious on these unofficial, soon to be official accusations. He is also playing in top shape despite the drama, he is really confident.
Magnus is wrong and his big ego keeps himself from being the best. Refusing to play challengers due to previous experience shows no matter the excuse.
@@ceoherohub2584 dude magnus quite literally IS the best lmao
@@ceoherohub2584 LMAO he literally obliterated everyone on the tournament
@@ceoherohub2584 you've heard of another Magnus Carlsen perhaps?
@@ceoherohub2584 Time will tell. Magnus has really good lawyers.
If Magnus thought Hans was a cheater - why did he agree to play him in that last tournament ?
@@LJP12330 Actually Magnus stated that when Hans became a last minute replacement into the tournament when someone else withdrew - he had considered withdrawing before the tournament began.
Fantastic video. Earned my sub. Thanks ur effort
Gabriel, props: It's nice to hear a commentator under 40 who doesn't say like, um, like um, ah, like every other sentence. Extremely professional and good observation.
I've truly believe Magnus knows what he's doing. He's ON THE SCENE at the first place after all. Remember, playing chess online and playing chess face-to-face are both completely different experience/feel overall.
People said it was strange playing Fischer, like being pushed off the board. Fischer was uncannily accurate. No computer cheating there, he was just good. And he was unpleasantly confident in interviews too.
Evidence is not enough, we need proof.
Hmmm, you said, Hans remains innocent. He is already guilty…
you need evident to prove him cheat on that match, he did cheat on prevous matches doesnt mean he cheat on that match,
I’m fairly new to the chess world, but the fact that you interrupted your story of the cheating scandal to breakdown a third person account of a meaningless game that Magnus and Hans played on the beach is absolutely hilarious.
Maybe it’s to show the contrast between the cup game where Magnus got dominated (the game in question) and these beach games where Magnus dominated.
That's you being new. Be humble so you can learn why it's important.
Lol I felt the same exact way. This man is breaking down a third person's account that may not even be true loool. Unbelievable.
Both of their reputations are on the line, which means Magnus has more to lose. Thereby, I believe Magnus.
I think Capa had foreseen this in 1925 and reason he formulated a larger chessboard, Fischer also but with random chess. Imao.
Good content and analysis 💪The man is innocent until someone proves, he is not
Magnus definitely winning the hairline game and Schwanz cant cheat at that. Or can he.
This is not "Law & Order: Criminal Intent"
There is not law enforcement or criminal court involved. Yet.
Why is it so hard to wait to have an opinion? And I ask that question to everyone. There's no need to take sides until the whole thing is figured out. Obviously if he doesn't have good justification for quitting its a huge blemish on his career and an irresponsible + selfish move. But why do we all have to have a definite opinion before we know everything?
sry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly does one cheat at over-the-board chess
Did Hans just hustle all the pros in the beach tournament , losing all his games knowing he may get a wildcard in the cheat tournament as he would be perceived as not a threat
If Magnus has so much clout with the powers that be and he wanted to blacklist Hans, it would be (or is) stupid of him to personally do a silent rage quit since he is obviously putting his own reputation on the line by playing the hitman against Hans' future opportunities, with apparently no proof.
No one has shown how they think he's cheating seems unfair you shouldn't accuse someone without proof !
It is sad because at ftx miami, magnus and hans becoming close..make joke, play chess at beach..now there is issue between them
Maybe if the players play in a Faraday cage? It will prevent any signals coming?
I don't know why people wouldn't trust Magnus' judgement on this. He's been beaten before, he'll be beaten again, and never had any ill will one way or the other. So why would he be so salty toward hans for no reason? It seems to me be an unjustifiable conclusion to say hans is not cheating based solely on that. And just to top it all off: once a cheater, always a cheater; your character is what you do when nobody's watching, and hans cheats when nobody's watching, that means he is a cheater. Concrete evidence will see my conviction, that's a guarantee.
there is a sharp difference on how hans played before and at the result disputed game.
Heard and felt some buzzer noice in match