So Great to see Lovely OMER is getting the work done to her. I drove many tens of thousands of miles in her and loved 95% of them, the 5% were due to the problem highlighted. I was sad to see her go but I could no longer fund the work necessary and am Glad to see her in such capable hands! I totally agree about the C6 Owners site and would highly recommend people go to it for information related to these cars, the type of things and common faults to look for. They may save you many thousands of pounds! Wish I had known for instance to change gearbox oil every 40K, quotes for gearbox rebuild was north of £2.7k. Though strangely the box fitted as far as Citroen is concerned if a 20GG09 usually fitted to a C5 3.0 V6 Did save me loads of cash when she had a problem with Kick down where she went into Limp home mode. Citroen did suggest it was one of the EGR valves. Cost to change £1300 if that didn't work it was £1800 for the other. Transpires that nowhere in the maintenance schedule does it mention to change the Fuel filter and when inspected it was most like the one that came out of the factory. Cost to replace £40, see what I mean! Also if you are buying a C6 find a specialist to look after her, do not go to a Citroen Main dealer, they know so little about C6s that when the one I mistaken chose they took 2 1/2 days to do a cambelt and managed to bugger the thermostat house (Should be changed at same time) but denied doing it. Looking forward to watching the rest of the series and maybe I could come down and see her when your have finished! :-)
I just looked at the mot history! Blimey Kevin you must have bottomless pockets, it certainly didn't shower itself in glory did it? You did well to keep it going. I always liked the look of these, I had a Mk I 2.2 C5 auto exclusive estate and that was a nice car but very thirsty and with the tax and insurance it became not viable. I also had a 2.5 Xm Sx. Like you it was a labour of love and I spent an awful lot of money on it but when the clutch started to go I had to get rid which was a terrible shame but that job on a 2.5 Xm is mega money.
A C6 is always risky even at the top end of the market, but it is a great concept worth maintaining and enjoying. Even the 2.7 can do a lot of miles, just change the oil pump from time to time keep your eyes on the coolant pipes and do it's services as correctly as you can. My car had a lack of damping and I changed all the spheres - sadly everything was wobbly as usual, then the pump went out and I had to replace it for 1200€ after that the damping was spot on. By the way the faulty motor in the hydraulic pump is a Renault part and pretty cheap and you can change the motor with a bit of work. For the gearbox issues just change the hydraulic solenoid block these are Aisin parts used by Volvo, Lancia and a whole lot of other cars - also shift in "Neutral" for stops till everything is sorted out.. it is worn out if it keeps on jerking with fresh oil because a Solenoid is weak and it weakens under heat as in an old pinball machine. It is an AM6 Gearbox and you will find parts almost everywhere a thing worth doing would be a larger oilcooler for the gearbox the stock cooler is just a open metal pipe behind the grill on the left side.
Love it! I know you've said you don't like them but in lockdown I picked up a 2009 C5 tourer with the 2.2 hdi for £1500, fully working and with 100k on the clock. It's a lovely compromise between the risk of a c6 but the mechanical reliability/ simplicity of its engine and hydro pneumatics. As a broke 21 year old student I can't take much more risk to be honest. Very underrated car in my opinion, feels very robust
I don't mind the later C5 (X7). Mechanically it's not really any less 'risky' than a C6, other than the chocolate crankshaft and associated DPF/EGR issues in a V6 twin-turbo diesel. Suspension largely the same, though C6 is set up to be slightly 'waftier' and I believe it's much quieter on the road, too. The early C5 I didn't like much as they have all the downsides of a Xantia with none of the upsides, and they look...well, yeah. That said, I can see why some people might like them.
@@UPnDOWN Ah yes, I suppose I was thinking about no AMVAR and simpler height sensors on mine, I think the two are related? I think mine has effectively two damper settings, soft or firm.
A 2009 means it uses the newer electronics system and revised suspension parts. At most, budget for replacement dampers and that's about it! 21 year old with a car that rivals a S class in comfort haha
i had c5 58 plate buddy and it was the best most comfortable car i ever had.currently driving c4 picasso egs 63 plate and i love it...but c5 was one of the best..
Thanks for the C6 adventure thus far looking forward to the next installment. Thanks for all your enthusiasm and enlightenment that lifts us old buggers out of another napping session:)
I have been daily driving a C6 for about 6 years now. Haven't have any major problems except one. Hydraulic pump decided to die, electric motor on it, to be exact. It is probably repairable and I kept it just in case. Got a used one for 250 euros from a wrecked car. Also the last C5's that have the same suspension, their pumps should work too.
It sounds very much like the valve block - what ZF call a "Mechatronic" unit. I had trouble with my BMW's ZF 6-speed box locking into gears: I took the car to a local autobox specialist who charged a reasonable amount to sort it - the Mechatronic assembly was sent to Germany for rebuilding - and it's been a jewel since. By the way, my car's done 311,000 miles...
Been running a 2.2 manual C6 exclusive for a year now and it has been great! Only issue I've had has been replacing turbo vacuum solinoid valves and a temperamental door handle which i sorted with wd40👍 the 2.2hdi also comes without the eye watering road tax of the 2.7v6.😁 obviously the tech is a bit outdated by today's touch screeny standards but it's very well equipped and i still find the interior a lovely place to be! I also love the exclusivity, there ain't many about!
I owned 2x 2.7 HDi and now i have 3.0 HDi. There is few jobs that needs to be checked and done on every C6 but then its perfect for long time. Engine needs full saps 5w40 oil always. Oil pump change with every timing belt change. Plastic water inlet and outlet with every timing belt change. Add a water level sensor from C5. And hydraulics check every year, front struts for corrosion, pipes check for corrosion (especially over fuel tank where you dont see..but they break there). Otherwise.. i have 430 000km on it now, and its fully reliable. Im going to stay with her as long as possible. For the gearbox, im changing gearbox oil every 30kkm, 3L .. its about half. Its good to use oil cooler, or stick a water cooler before gearbox. Oil temp can get up to 100deg C and then its not oil.. its a water. When the valve body is damaged, it needs replacement.
Aah yes, the Warner-Aisin 6 speed gearbox of the C6! Been there, done that (paying, not wrenching.) Clunky gear changes into third sounds mighty familiar. Mostly the valve block, some people claim that you can just change the valves themselves (?), not too expensive. The dealer from the Middle East who bought my former C6 when I was fed up with it had to exchange the torque converter though. Quick fix (newspeak: life hack), although temporary: Put the gearbox into W mode (meaning Winter), this greatly alleviates the clunky gear changes. My long term fix: Got a nice C6, from the first owner, with the good engine (3,0 HDI), had a professional Citroen shop fix _everything_, also doing all the preventive measures, giving carte blanche cost-wise before ever driving it. Happy ever since.
Problem with winter mode is that it restricts your acceleration even more from standstill. I nearly got T-boned last time I tried it haha! The 3.0HDI does seem a better engine, but over here they're way more expensive than the 2.7, and for 80% the same car, a 60-80% price increase seems extreme.
@@UPnDOWN 3.0 HDi is the same engine with same problems. It has litlle bit better consumption around 1L less, but the feeling is not so agressive as 2.7. It has better and more reliable injection and better EGR system from bosch. Because on 2.7 the EGRs are the worst and they fail often.
I love it when guys like you patiently and persistently figure out how to get around problems like this. As you say, that suspension is much simpler than people think. Long ago I had a CX Familiale estate and was amazed to find that the return pipes on the rear suspension were push-fit only. Still miss that car!
I love these C6s and did consider buying one a few times - your video has made me feel better about not buying one🙂 . Glad you've rescued it and hope it keeps going!
Good to see you making progress with your C6 i have a C6 2.2 HDI bace with cloth trim according to DVLA only 4 in the UK had it for 9 years. Look forward to more reports on what i think is the last real Citroen.
I bought a 2007 c6 in 2019 for 850 euro. Feeling like you need do push clutch if it had one, is definitely the torque converter getting stuck in lockup. The harsh shifts are the valve block. An easy job to do valve block. Changing both fixed both my issues
I'm enthusiastically looking forward to more on the C6. Big Citroens are cool, "period", but this with all the kit and a to me good colour combo, gets a lot of extra points. I'd have a V6 petrol if given the choice, but when the right car is there, you go for it..petrol or diesel.
I'd have the petrol, too, just for the added smoothness and simplicity. The diesel is a fair bit quicker, but the added complexity means that one day, I'm going to have a bad day.
@@UPnDOWN I'm not surprised the big diesel would be faster than the 3L petrol. I spent some time in a 3L 24V petrol XM back when they were new. It's a lovely and very stylish car, but certainly not fast. Diesel torque would help, a lot. I'm crossing my fingers for your engine/ownership experience. The possible negative outcome sounds very exciting, but in all the wrong ways. Yikes.
@@jo05dk i also had the 3.0L V6 24 valves after owning a diesel with turbo but with manual transmition it was a very fast car not close to the diesel i had before and fast ,off course not as a litle unconfortable car or a porshe or ferrari but fast compared to other cars of the same range and the more confortable with the same system as the DS hidraulic suspention ,only after 95 they improved the suspention at high speed (not that didn´t work perfect but some drivers were not into not feeling the road on the steering wheel , just that)but for a giant and spaceship type car 240 km/h is fast in my opinion and from 0 to 100 km´s/h in 7 seconds ,if automatic i never seen one they do are slower but manual is the driver who controls the car, didn´t knew they had problems never seen one with those problems refered, don´t know if it´s exclusivelly problem with automatic gears, but it´s a out of this world feeling, driving it and yes electrical systems came to stay in the 70´s allthough mechanics normally aren´t mechanical engeniers and don´t have a clue about evolution in electronic systems they do know how to work in a car with 60´s specifications and due to the sucssess of the DS ,GS and CX all knew how to work on hidraulic suspensions but that is gone also ,the knowledge of 70´s mechanics that normally didn´t study and all they could do is learn from a older mechanic how to work on cars, that´s the main reason mechanics do start to deliver smoke from their hear drums ,i myself not being my speciality mechanics i went to a bibliotec and took all the books about cars that there were lot´s of publications in the 70´s or i would have to pay each time something in a car that didn´t work, i learned somethings through the years or i wouldn´t be selling 2nd hand cars for 25 years and some repairs that are charged are simple as learn some about electronics and how to unscrew and screw some bolts or change a wire like on do at home when a plug gets disconected and one conects it again ,it makes me remenber the BMW´s 2002 that the one with 4 barrel carburator was fixable but when a ti or tii appeared was almost impossible to repair and that´s the reason i bought 7 of them very cheap but also bought the four barrel carburator as they asked me what today is 400€ maximum for each this in mint condition and either than a Alfa-Romeu 2000 GT veloce from 72 my other 90´s car was a mint BMW 2002 and 1502 this 75 models from the same colour only one had a rpm counter and other a clock, also some 74 ,75 ,76 520 ,3000 CS and 645i all still with chromed side mirrors, some that today are in mint condition when i bought them in the 80´s or 90´s were sold as destroyd and with some hours with help from a friend they become tuned perfect
@@RUfromthe40s I don't know if you're talking about the XM or the C6, but none of them go to 100 in 7 secs. I have, on one website, seen internet data on something called a XM V6 Performance, manuel, which supposedly goes takes 7,8secs to reach 100KM/T or 60MPH (don't remember which it was). ..but standard numbers are something like 8,4 as the fastest to 100KM/T i've seen listed for a manuel, and around 9secs for an automatic. Topspeed: 235 for the fastest, and 230KM/T for the automatic..as far as i remember. And: One thing is ho fast they go if absolutely floored, another how fast they are in daily use. The guy who owned the XM i experienced also ran a Peugeot 2,0 auto (petrol), and he said that irl the Peugeot was at least as fast as the Citroen because of lover weight. I LOVE those cars, but such a big car with around 200HP isn't fast. Lost skills: Sadly i fully agree. In my family i had a mechanic who was trained around 60 years ago from now. He learned how to rebuild engines because they had to do that all the time back then. The skills on that guy.. He could fix more or less anything, and, as an example, easily constructed a honing device for a scooter that needed a new cylinder, just like that. Such a shame that those skills are disappearing.
With regards the transmission issue, I had something similar with a RAV4 a few years back. At the time I was a transmission development engineer and was convinced it was the valve block and/or contamination. Turns out it was the transmission ecu, a PCB inside had broken down rendering the car unable to decide when and how to shift.
(Not a mechanic but I had this problem with a GM car.) What I thought. Stalling at a stop has to mean the lockup clutch isn't releasing if it's transmission caused. If the trans didn't shift back down into 1st gear it wouldn't matter. The torque converter would still slip allowing the car to idle. Either the ecu isn't telling it what to do, or (like mine) the solenoid or whatever it is that works the clutch was sticking. It was on the outside on that transmission, so the whole repair cost was around $300. The bad shifting could be internal or again a bad ecu. I had a bad ecu that controlled the wipers on that car, and they only screwed up on hot days. Then they went nuts. Anyway since like most automatics this one is used on a lot of cars any transmission shop should know the ins and outs, unlike with Citroen-only components.
I have a 2011 C5 X7 2.0 HDI 16 Comfort (Hydractive 3+). When I bought it about 18 months ago, the biggest problem it had was a broken dipstick. Whoever worked on it last filled the oil to the bottom of the broken dipstick. My Citroen mechanic pumped out the 3l of overfilled oil, the display stopped saying "oil level improbable" and all was right with the world. It was due a timing belt change so that was done, waterpump, serpentine belt and all fluids, including the transmission. Interestingly, while it does say "filled for life" in the FRONT of the owners manual, the service record has an item for Automatic Transmission fluid every 50, 000 km. This had been done once in the then 150, 000 km of my cars life, but the fluid was now orange. It was changed (as much as you can) at that major service, and again 5,000 km later. All good again. 30, 000km later, still fine. I am a fan of Aisin transmissions but, as you say, "sealed for life" is a load of crap.
The C5 Aisin auto has an oil life indicator. But it can only be access through the diag computer. It definitely doesn’t need to be changed every 50000km. It’s design to last 400000km or 10 years under normal conditions.
@@dufonrafal I looked in the service manual for my C5 and it says automatic transmission oil change is recommended every 60,000 kms. According to the service record this was done at a Citroen dealer at that mileage. So 90,000 km and 6 years later, the fluid was no longer pink. I am comfortable following my mechanic's recommendations.
@@dufonrafal I had a 307 with that dreadful 4 speed. I am in Australia and it is a 2011 6 speed with the 2.0 HDI 16 valve. It is possible that the fluid change at 60k didn't happen as I did not own the car at that stage. It was a country car so, while not doing as many changes, the transmission would have been exposed to temperatures that regularly exceeded 35C and occasionally over 40C.
Look forward to the future videos on this one! Always interesting to see these "too complicated - can't fix" situation cars be fixed and often it turns out simpler than expected.
Not sure why I’m watching this, I don’t even own a Citroen but I do enjoy the diagnosis process? The SM is a fabulous looking car and a very interesting project, can’t wait for future episodes.
Great video - read your PH bits & pieces, good to hear it too. Vehicle Excise Duty 😉 - not spent on roads since before Andre Citreon passed away sadly.
Looking soooo forward to more C6 content! I am so glad that you takle one of my most wanted cars. Gives me a lot of info when buying :) If i only had a lift ... and not just bought a Ro80 :-D But some time in the future!
Wow can't believe it i had a c6 2.7 hdi in black loved all the guirks got so much attention just coming to the end of a nsu Ro80 restoration can't wait to drive it
As with all hydraulic faults the problems only show when the system is hot and the oil has thined, less viscosity. The problem is usually worn seals, spool valves and pumps. However, please check any oil cooler for blockages as this can cause the above problems if oil is too hot. Jong.
I've been waiting for a video on the C6 since I saw your driving it on the hubnut channel. For what you paid for it, you got a bargain. When you keep on top of all the jobs that need doing to it, you'll have yourself a decent car.
Interesting story and it's a lovely car and bit of a classic. Saw a few of these over the last few years and love the design. Hope you get it bk to full health and enjoy it
My Dream car. Here in brazil they are quite rare, Citroen sold this in 2006 or 2007 but the price was equal to a bmw series 3 or a mercedes, and people here prefer german cars. today if 60 of these cars are alive is a lot!
The C6 is a car I've always wanted, and at one time I wouldn't have hesitated to buy one. That however was in the days when I had access to a car lift and workshop facilities, now I don"t. I didn't know about the crank issue, that is very poor and would deter me from the V6 now, problem is, the twin turbo hdi 4 is mega rare, particularly in exclusive form. The C6 is just so superb though, styling, interior, gadgets etc. And then there is the ludicrous level of car tax, which I strongly resent paying to the government thieves. Look forward to further vids on this though, it may reduce my fear factor to the point I buy one anyway, you never know!
By the way. Love the Imp. My father won a Hillman Imp at his local club for the price of a 5p raffle ticket in the mid 1970's. A famous cricketer and a mate came round the house to tell us he had won, on a cold dark winters evening. My dad thought it was protestant paramilitaries and wouldn't come down the stairs initially, as the paramilitaries had threatened to target Catholics on the mainland at that time, and he thought his number was up. Same colour and all. P reg it was.
I had a 407 coupe with that engine and box which developed that gearbox problem, ended up having to sell it with the problem as I was getting a company car and working in the Middle East for a while so didn’t have time to try and sort it. Regret selling it to this day, considering what I got for it!
Had a V70 t5 with similar issues with the autobox. A couple of flushes and a bottle of lubegard made a massive difference. The first flush produced something akin to treacle. Odd that Volvo built the car to easily last the 200k it had travelled, but decided a sealed your life gearbox was a good idea.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant video. Love these car show type chats. I'd have a C6 in a flash, if I lived near your garage and you agreed to help keep it right. I don't though, by about 400 miles, and you haven't, so I'll stick with the CX and be happy with that. Not difficult!
My uncle had a Red 3.0 HDi new has a company car. I made a joke to buy something that didn’t have a reputation for reliability because he had terrible reliability from his Audi, BMW and Mercedes all enjoyed the comfort of the main agent workshop than the open road. So he got one of these it was 100% reliable over three years and brought the car afterwards when he was laid off kept it another 2 years and just never went wrong. I was an apprentice with Citroen specialist in the early 90s working mainly on 2cv GSA CX odd SM, BX, Xantia, XM’s and other normal models. If the transmission oil is that black then it’s due an overall and I don’t think just a valve body or a solenoid which is a common issue on Renault 4 speed Automatic. And has from the 1st April the RFL on the C6 as gone up to £615. Sorry Great channel first watch.
Our second one *the rescue has an issue with the gearbox: wecan drive it without any sort of problem, on the highway, as long as we want (slow or fast) until you don't come to full stop, there is no issue. No clunks, shakes, noices when normal driving. But when we need to break to stop entirely the car might start shaking, and the engine sometimes stops. We were told it's the torque converter in our case. Also we noticed that we can shift gear without pushing the break on this one (and of course it starts driving right away). Any idea on this one? We have even more limited knowledge about this :)))
If it only causes an issue when stopping then it could be the torque converter. I would do a few fluid changes if you haven't already. You can move the lever between R/N/D/sequential without holding the brake, yes. You need the brake pressed to get it out of P.
You had a C4 3-door (the version I like, styling-wise) - they draw heavily on the design prototype Citroen displayed at the NEC Motor Show in 2002. I took some photos!
I did the flush several time on the c6, the gearbox run much better after. About 12l in. It started to become red. I think 17l would be perfect, like new.
I love the look of the C6. Big French luxo-barge in the greatest tradition. It's the 407 interior that lets it down. The overly complex heating and ventilation controls compared to my C5 that makes me think twice.
The heating and ventilation controls were also used in the higher-spec C5 mk1. To be honest, I've had a 407 too, and the C6 feels pretty different inside, despite the HVAC controls and indicator/wiper stalks etc. I'm glad they spent the money on frameless doors, steering headlamps and active spoiler, tbh. I can live with the buttons! They're not difficult to use anyway.
@@UPnDOWN My C5 has been my favourite car of all time. It's so freindly and easy to use. For example, the door bins are made of the perfect plastic to grip any drink can I place in it without spilling. Try that on other cars, and I'm cleaning up a soggy mess. The controls, big and simple to use with immediate effect ( No processor required to change cabing temp etc. ). Beautiful looking car and oh, so frugal and comfortable. Only downside is, my stereo typical light metallic blue hatchback, with a slight dent in the boot lid, has super low status. Excellent when facing off with a JLR product down a double parked road, I always get flashed to go first. Really bad, when driving around the 'bad lands' of the Southern Irish 'border' villages on a winters night. Got actually run off the road by "vigilantes" at 8 pm on a winters evening, and then they had the gall to call the cops on 'ME'. Suspicious activity in the area.
"Hello, is that the Up and Down home for retired Citroens please?" I recall seeing these new at a motor show... as 'spaceship' as my dad's old CX Reflex (wrecked when the cambelt snapped apparently, god rest it's soul)
I suspect you've already done it by now, but in relation to the tf80sc, it doesn't quite select neutral but disengage the turbine. Remaining in third is the 'I've failed but will get you home mate' default. I'm sure you did , but after a fluid flush the oil counter should be reset. You can also use the lexia to do a full or partial initialization of the ecu, which is quite important. If it is the valve block (and being a 2007 car it probably is) you might want to consider a sonax block.
I was sure I recognised this car and the backstory sounded very familiar! I know the previous owner. I just got it confirmed and notified him to watch this. He loved that car.
I had very similar gbox problems with a 2001 Volvo V70 (Aisin Warner gbox). It did flares just like you described. Did full ATF flush on the machine. The ATF came out Coffee Brown... gbox never really was perfect.
Lovely car, I had a Mercedes ML auto and the fluid type and EXACT amount of fluid was paramount even after changing conductor plate and valves otherwise it had similar gearbox faults, worth checking maybe.
@@UPnDOWN Yes - worked with Citroen for a few years - supplied Xantia to EastEnders, C5 to Waking the Dead, and even a C3 to Last of the Summer Wine. Think we even got a C3 Plurial Charleston into something
I had all those 3 problems on my citroen c5 to, first handbrake, faling due to incompetent people working testing the car when i get it reregistered and they pull the hand-brake when the car is moving and in drive without pressing the brake pedal first, second suspension link braking because again of dumb vulcaniser personal who don't raise the suspension on the max level or service mode and than lift the car from the ground, and when they lift it in normal height and than lower it it causes the hydropneumatic pump to fail and also creates damage to the rear trap of the vehicle so the trap screws get bend and that causes the height scensor to fail, now the gearbox i also have the same problem and i can say that it is citroen's fault for this one because the same sc-80 am6 gearbox is used by other car brands and it works great on those cars but not on Citroen and Peugeot so yes it is the valve solenoid block i still have to fix it on mine but for now i drive it in winter mode and the shifter just goes in 3th gear so i don't have any problem driving it but the thig that i cant get it inreverse is problematic .
I had the third gear slippage too. Needs valve chest. So I sold it. I had to rev it hi in 2 nd and shift manually into 4 th Reverse was bad too. So all same issues
Will you open a little shop for the channel ? I desperately NEED a UPnDOWN sticker for my "brand new" Xantia, and maybe others would buy one too. Love the C6.
I love your explanation of all the cars you work on. As I previously said in other comments. People like yourself are few and far between. I need your help with my cars. Not like the garages near me I could do without there negative energy telling me they can't fix things. Yessssssssss you can
Hi mate, When it comes to Cambelt time, being the same as the discovery 3/range rover sport engine, just be aware there is 2 belts, the main front belt controlling crank and cam timing and a rear belt controlling high pressure pump. the rear belt is a body off job on the range rover sport and a just about doable job on the discovery 3, i dread to think what it's like on a C6, even the main belt looks like a tools thrown across the workshop type job, i think thats why i don't do cambelts.
It's a lovely car, but may I ask if it would pass the emissions test if all exhaust filters were removed and the ECU remapped to suit a freeflow air filter and exhaust ? I'm still running a bought from new 1997 Peugeot 306 XUD9TE IDI turbo diesel, which I've tuned up a fair bit but still easily passes the MOT. Several of my pals have more modern direct injection diesels but perpetually get the warning light/clogged up and sometimes limp mode syndrome, which necessitates blasts along the motorway that they don't really want to do.
Well, possibly not, but it's mapped and fuelled to take those perameters into account. Diesel engines produce so much more power/torque than they used to that they need all the emissions gear. If you took it away, they'd be smokey, smelly diesels again. As for the 306, it'll pass the MoT easily because the test is less strict for older cars - if it was in the newer band like the C6 (which effectively needs a cat test) it'd struggle, I'd bet.
Had a peugeot expert that was basically new when I worked at peugeot that wouldnt lock up because the valve block was a dud. Stupid shop manager made us change the tourque converter 3 times before listening to the correct day1 diagnosis.
@@UPnDOWN Yes it is. It was such a foul display of incompetence in leadership. I was an intern at the time and could make the right diagnosis just by reading the printout from Diagbox. The guy who drove the van was thurroughly unimpressed to. He had had the van less then a year then we had it back for just over 2 months for a 90 minute repair.
Umm good luck. You may need it. I had one of these a 57 plate 2.7 Lignage at 18 months (16000 miles) to about 3 years and 3 months old. (42000 miles) Wonderful car when working right which was not very often
Got a C6 2012 HDI 3.0, bought it new 40mpg, love it. Glad to see your going to fix it. ❤️❤️❤️. BTW they are quieter and slightly more comfy on 245/50s rather than 245/45s not sure what size you got?
@@UPnDOWN ok, worth thinking about when you get to change, reduces the crash on potholes, so far only on the front, asked my insurance company before changing, no increase in premium because they are not wider. I used to change to winter tyres and have a set of 17” which are better still for ride and noise. Anyway l still makes me smile when l see the C6 🤗🤗🤗 they are rare. There is Citroen specialist in Welwyn Garden City, that one a few miles from me says are really excellent. Mine always been serviced by the suppling dealer Roy Tolleys in Colchester.
The one thing you can say is the suspension is very good and reliable; just dont abuse it . Owned only Citroens since since i passed my test in 1975, and never had an issue; current car near 300,000 miles in it and never touched the engine or suspension.
Glad you were able to solve a few problems through some good thinking and some detective work. Now the gearbox, sealed for live means: hopefully the car will be scrapped within ten years so that the bad design does not come to the fore!
I suspect quite a few owners would class them a money pit, but compared to something else this advanced of that era, I would be surprised if it was any worse.
Great video about a beautiful car from Citroën, they really didn't catch on so now Citroën call their more up-market cars DS, you'll probably be able to pick one of these up cheap in a few years from now, people will always choose an Audi, BMW or Mercedes for a luxury brand, when will Citroën learn.
I wouldn't want a 'DS' brand car, to be honest. They're DS in name-only. I like the look of the DS5, but I'm told the drive is poor. The only Citroen I can see myself warming to in the future is an early Cactus.
I think I've found my Channel. I also bought a cheap C6 that need a lot of work, Heater Vent issues, blown expansion tank+++ Got it sorted and drove in 8000km on my vacation last summer:) Did I mentioned that I'm also restoring an SM, and daily an XM and have a CX Gti Turbo2 waiting in the wing.. hehehe
It's better than the C5. Much more controlled, too. Much, much sharper around bends etc, but then Cecily wasn't Hydractive 3+, just the basic Hydractive 3 (which isn't really hydractive, in its true sense)
I have a same engined 407 Coupe 2.7 V6 and has the same problem with the gearbox when ir heats up there's a big knock between 1-2 gear or 2-3 gear but not always and there was a time when it's stuck in 3rd or 4th but then i shutted down wait a few mins and restart the problem gone. Then it got the computer of the gearbox cleaned from issues and the stucking has'nt appeared again yet. I'm interested in what you find with this problem.
Great video, thank you! After many years of not being brave enough I finally bought a C6 last November. What a machine! I've owned a CX and XM in the past but they never seemed as potentially scary as the C6. All has been well (even my wife likes it) until two days ago when I have handbrake failure/ABS failure/ASR failure now flashing at me 😞.. I'm wondering whether this will bankrupt me? Handbrake motor seems to be trying to work.....
Check the cables aren't seizing (you'll have to remove them to do this, which will need DiagBox/Lexia to put it into service mode). Any issues with that often trips the ABS failure codes, too.
Your car selection is an impractical crime of passion … madness … but keep it up ;) some of these era of cars are too clever by half complexity wise, knew a guy who bought an exotic bmw with a trick auto 6 speed gearbox with steering located racing style manual paddle levers, sounds like similar trouble, cost too much too repair by his pocket but this is how modern cars go, you got the tools the garage and strength to keep her alive. Some of these issues sound like design flaws that need 3rd party fixes to make them good, the nice thing about a manual gearbox, is you can nurse them carefully by listening to them bite wise.
Is it worth disconnecting the transmission cooler lines, and putting the return line in new transmission oil starting the engine run through the gears (on tickover ) so the new transmission oil gets sent through the system pushing the old oil out through the cooler feed line ? I did this on an old Jeep xj the had never had its fluid changed and it worked quite well Ace video subscribed 👍🏻
It's coolant that goes through the cooler (shared with radiator) so probably not a good idea! It's more of a heat exchanger than anything. There is a bung underneath it, and I have wondered if it would be possible to rig something up to that.
@@UPnDOWN Pretty straightforward, on most transmissions there will be a feed and a return line to the transmission cooler, personally I would get rid of the heat exchanger and just have a stand alone cooler for the transmission. My experience with heat exchangers and transmission coolers built into the engine radiator is that they tend to burst with age filling the transmission with engine coolant
Just bought a 2006 Peugeot 407 with very low kms 96k / 59k miles, and have read about the AM6 auto gearbox issues. Mine occasionally hard changes from 6th to 5th on a hill. Just wondering how you will be tackling your gearbox issues. New valve bodies seem to be about UKP780 for a new genuine item. I was thinking of doing a fluid change (with correct Esso oil) and hoping that might correct it. Cheers, Steve Sydney, Aus.
that was a fantastic car when it came out ,i had to buy it was kind of the feeling when in early 90´s i bought a XM but maybe not the same this is more regular than the XM in 1990, this type of car in not comparable with anyother on the road maybe the S-class from mercedes is almost confortable as this C6
By the way, does yours have a functioning cruise control? Mine is somewhat functioning, moving the steering column will bring it back to life mostly. Ive read from c6owners forums that the cruise control is a pretty standard thing to go, but I've been too lazy to troubleshoot it(and I don't have the tools or know-how to tinker with it myself, I got a local Citroen garage who knows the pneumatic stuff etc) Just wondering, if there is a chance you making a video about it, if yours is problematic too. Only electrical problem that the car has, so far at least
Sounds good to me - as it's an Exclusive it will have all the toys too! What's not to like? 😁 Also, as you knew exactly what you were buying, there shouldn't be any more nasty surprises.
Yeah I think I'm fine with my recently purchased interesting European sedan, a 2005 Alfa Romeo 166. Hell of a lot more simple than the c5 (and my E39 03 530i m sport). That said, always been interested in these cars, especially seeing as I'm pretty sure they weren't ever sold in Australia.
Fantastic Citroen collection - well done! I had the pleasure of owning an identical spec C6 registration GJ59UYO. As someone with no mechanical ability I sold her when it became clear that my local Citroen garage weren’t really able to service her properly. Truly the last proper big Citroen.
Yeah, sadly the dealers weren't too fussed by it. Most of the GJ59 cars were pre-registered by Citroen UK, and were a couple of years older than the reg suggests. Most were unsold stock that they needed clearing before the facelift and 3.0 came out. Probably sold them all at a loss, including mine!
Sounds great, good luck with it! I'd love one, but so far, sanity has prevailed, although I do have another daft flakey car with similar issues for bits etc.
Why did you buy a £750 C6? Why would you not, even if just to look at it!! Want one! Is it the same engine as in the Jag XF 2.7 diesels I have had in recently?
Lovely car, if only I had the bravery (or the ability to find a cheap 2.2 hdi). Sounds like a classic case of slide and bump, I had a VW with the 09G gearbox (pre-dsg) and the “sealed for life” bit me on the ar*e at almost exactly 100k miles when the valve body began to break up and cost me 1200 quid at a slush box specialist. I remember at one point it banged into gear so hard my passenger thought we’d been rear ended and that’s when I knew I had to stump up!
The 2.2 is pretty rare, but then they're probably 95% as complex as this one. They don't have AMVAR, and the 2.2 engine is probably a little more tough than the 2.7, but they're still dual-turbo and still have a fair few complexities.
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So Great to see Lovely OMER is getting the work done to her. I drove many tens of thousands of miles in her and loved 95% of them, the 5% were due to the problem highlighted.
I was sad to see her go but I could no longer fund the work necessary and am Glad to see her in such capable hands!
I totally agree about the C6 Owners site and would highly recommend people go to it for information related to these cars, the type of things and common faults to look for.
They may save you many thousands of pounds! Wish I had known for instance to change gearbox oil every 40K, quotes for gearbox rebuild was north of £2.7k. Though strangely the box fitted as far as Citroen is concerned if a 20GG09 usually fitted to a C5 3.0 V6
Did save me loads of cash when she had a problem with Kick down where she went into Limp home mode. Citroen did suggest it was one of the EGR valves. Cost to change £1300 if that didn't work it was £1800 for the other. Transpires that nowhere in the maintenance schedule does it mention to change the Fuel filter and when inspected it was most like the one that came out of the factory. Cost to replace £40, see what I mean!
Also if you are buying a C6 find a specialist to look after her, do not go to a Citroen Main dealer, they know so little about C6s that when the one I mistaken chose they took 2 1/2 days to do a cambelt and managed to bugger the thermostat house (Should be changed at same time) but denied doing it.
Looking forward to watching the rest of the series and maybe I could come down and see her when your have finished! :-)
Thanks Kevin, it's down to you that it's still going!
I just looked at the mot history! Blimey Kevin you must have bottomless pockets, it certainly didn't shower itself in glory did it? You did well to keep it going. I always liked the look of these, I had a Mk I 2.2 C5 auto exclusive estate and that was a nice car but very thirsty and with the tax and insurance it became not viable. I also had a 2.5 Xm Sx. Like you it was a labour of love and I spent an awful lot of money on it but when the clutch started to go I had to get rid which was a terrible shame but that job on a 2.5 Xm is mega money.
God, if I had the possibility I'd get a C6 in a heartbeat. What a machine.
A C6 is always risky even at the top end of the market, but it is a great concept worth maintaining and enjoying. Even the 2.7 can do a lot of miles, just change the oil pump from time to time keep your eyes on the coolant pipes and do it's services as correctly as you can. My car had a lack of damping and I changed all the spheres - sadly everything was wobbly as usual, then the pump went out and I had to replace it for 1200€ after that the damping was spot on. By the way the faulty motor in the hydraulic pump is a Renault part and pretty cheap and you can change the motor with a bit of work. For the gearbox issues just change the hydraulic solenoid block these are Aisin parts used by Volvo, Lancia and a whole lot of other cars - also shift in "Neutral" for stops till everything is sorted out.. it is worn out if it keeps on jerking with fresh oil because a Solenoid is weak and it weakens under heat as in an old pinball machine.
It is an AM6 Gearbox and you will find parts almost everywhere a thing worth doing would be a larger oilcooler for the gearbox the stock cooler is just a open metal pipe behind the grill on the left side.
I didn't realize it was an Aisin AT. I thought it was a ZF.
Love it! I know you've said you don't like them but in lockdown I picked up a 2009 C5 tourer with the 2.2 hdi for £1500, fully working and with 100k on the clock. It's a lovely compromise between the risk of a c6 but the mechanical reliability/ simplicity of its engine and hydro pneumatics. As a broke 21 year old student I can't take much more risk to be honest. Very underrated car in my opinion, feels very robust
Nothing wrong with the c5, I've had 4!
I don't mind the later C5 (X7). Mechanically it's not really any less 'risky' than a C6, other than the chocolate crankshaft and associated DPF/EGR issues in a V6 twin-turbo diesel. Suspension largely the same, though C6 is set up to be slightly 'waftier' and I believe it's much quieter on the road, too. The early C5 I didn't like much as they have all the downsides of a Xantia with none of the upsides, and they look...well, yeah. That said, I can see why some people might like them.
@@UPnDOWN Ah yes, I suppose I was thinking about no AMVAR and simpler height sensors on mine, I think the two are related? I think mine has effectively two damper settings, soft or firm.
A 2009 means it uses the newer electronics system and revised suspension parts. At most, budget for replacement dampers and that's about it! 21 year old with a car that rivals a S class in comfort haha
i had c5 58 plate buddy and it was the best most comfortable car i ever had.currently driving c4 picasso egs 63 plate and i love it...but c5 was one of the best..
Thanks for the C6 adventure thus far looking forward to the next installment. Thanks for all your enthusiasm and enlightenment that lifts us old buggers out of another napping session:)
I have been daily driving a C6 for about 6 years now. Haven't have any major problems except one. Hydraulic pump decided to die, electric motor on it, to be exact. It is probably repairable and I kept it just in case. Got a used one for 250 euros from a wrecked car. Also the last C5's that have the same suspension, their pumps should work too.
It sounds very much like the valve block - what ZF call a "Mechatronic" unit. I had trouble with my BMW's ZF 6-speed box locking into gears: I took the car to a local autobox specialist who charged a reasonable amount to sort it - the Mechatronic assembly was sent to Germany for rebuilding - and it's been a jewel since. By the way, my car's done 311,000 miles...
You lucky devil, I'd love a C6 but ownership seems a bit of a scary proposition for the home mechanic. Looking forward to lots more C6 action.
C6 and SM! My God, you're living the dream...
Certainly feels like it.
Been running a 2.2 manual C6 exclusive for a year now and it has been great! Only issue I've had has been replacing turbo vacuum solinoid valves and a temperamental door handle which i sorted with wd40👍 the 2.2hdi also comes without the eye watering road tax of the 2.7v6.😁 obviously the tech is a bit outdated by today's touch screeny standards but it's very well equipped and i still find the interior a lovely place to be! I also love the exclusivity, there ain't many about!
I'm happy not to have the touch screens, I hate them in cars!
I owned 2x 2.7 HDi and now i have 3.0 HDi. There is few jobs that needs to be checked and done on every C6 but then its perfect for long time. Engine needs full saps 5w40 oil always. Oil pump change with every timing belt change. Plastic water inlet and outlet with every timing belt change. Add a water level sensor from C5. And hydraulics check every year, front struts for corrosion, pipes check for corrosion (especially over fuel tank where you dont see..but they break there). Otherwise.. i have 430 000km on it now, and its fully reliable. Im going to stay with her as long as possible. For the gearbox, im changing gearbox oil every 30kkm, 3L .. its about half. Its good to use oil cooler, or stick a water cooler before gearbox. Oil temp can get up to 100deg C and then its not oil.. its a water. When the valve body is damaged, it needs replacement.
Aah yes, the Warner-Aisin 6 speed gearbox of the C6! Been there, done that (paying, not wrenching.) Clunky gear changes into third sounds mighty familiar. Mostly the valve block, some people claim that you can just change the valves themselves (?), not too expensive. The dealer from the Middle East who bought my former C6 when I was fed up with it had to exchange the torque converter though.
Quick fix (newspeak: life hack), although temporary: Put the gearbox into W mode (meaning Winter), this greatly alleviates the clunky gear changes.
My long term fix: Got a nice C6, from the first owner, with the good engine (3,0 HDI), had a professional Citroen shop fix _everything_, also doing all the preventive measures, giving carte blanche cost-wise before ever driving it. Happy ever since.
Problem with winter mode is that it restricts your acceleration even more from standstill. I nearly got T-boned last time I tried it haha!
The 3.0HDI does seem a better engine, but over here they're way more expensive than the 2.7, and for 80% the same car, a 60-80% price increase seems extreme.
@@UPnDOWN 3.0 HDi is the same engine with same problems. It has litlle bit better consumption around 1L less, but the feeling is not so agressive as 2.7. It has better and more reliable injection and better EGR system from bosch. Because on 2.7 the EGRs are the worst and they fail often.
I love it when guys like you patiently and persistently figure out how to get around problems like this. As you say, that suspension is much simpler than people think. Long ago I had a CX Familiale estate and was amazed to find that the return pipes on the rear suspension were push-fit only. Still miss that car!
That's the thing - it's actually brilliant engineering. But nobody considers it.
I love these C6s and did consider buying one a few times - your video has made me feel better about not buying one🙂 . Glad you've rescued it and hope it keeps going!
Good to see you making progress with your C6 i have a C6 2.2 HDI bace with cloth trim according to DVLA only 4 in the UK had it for 9 years. Look forward to more reports on what i think is the last real Citroen.
I bought a 2007 c6 in 2019 for 850 euro. Feeling like you need do push clutch if it had one, is definitely the torque converter getting stuck in lockup. The harsh shifts are the valve block. An easy job to do valve block. Changing both fixed both my issues
Yeah, it's possibly both. I've changed the valveblock, which will be in a future vid.
You are very brave, owning the two most mechanically scary cars in the world: The SM and the C6. Also two of the most wonderful 👍😎
Oh I do so enjoy storytime with 'Up and Down' ,superb.
I'm enthusiastically looking forward to more on the C6. Big Citroens are cool, "period", but this with all the kit and a to me good colour combo, gets a lot of extra points. I'd have a V6 petrol if given the choice, but when the right car is there, you go for it..petrol or diesel.
I'd have the petrol, too, just for the added smoothness and simplicity. The diesel is a fair bit quicker, but the added complexity means that one day, I'm going to have a bad day.
@@UPnDOWN I'm not surprised the big diesel would be faster than the 3L petrol. I spent some time in a 3L 24V petrol XM back when they were new. It's a lovely and very stylish car, but certainly not fast. Diesel torque would help, a lot.
I'm crossing my fingers for your engine/ownership experience. The possible negative outcome sounds very exciting, but in all the wrong ways. Yikes.
Period?
@@jo05dk i also had the 3.0L V6 24 valves after owning a diesel with turbo but with manual transmition it was a very fast car not close to the diesel i had before and fast ,off course not as a litle unconfortable car or a porshe or ferrari but fast compared to other cars of the same range and the more confortable with the same system as the DS hidraulic suspention ,only after 95 they improved the suspention at high speed (not that didn´t work perfect but some drivers were not into not feeling the road on the steering wheel , just that)but for a giant and spaceship type car 240 km/h is fast in my opinion and from 0 to 100 km´s/h in 7 seconds ,if automatic i never seen one they do are slower but manual is the driver who controls the car, didn´t knew they had problems never seen one with those problems refered, don´t know if it´s exclusivelly problem with automatic gears, but it´s a out of this world feeling, driving it and yes electrical systems came to stay in the 70´s allthough mechanics normally aren´t mechanical engeniers and don´t have a clue about evolution in electronic systems they do know how to work in a car with 60´s specifications and due to the sucssess of the DS ,GS and CX all knew how to work on hidraulic suspensions but that is gone also ,the knowledge of 70´s mechanics that normally didn´t study and all they could do is learn from a older mechanic how to work on cars, that´s the main reason mechanics do start to deliver smoke from their hear drums ,i myself not being my speciality mechanics i went to a bibliotec and took all the books about cars that there were lot´s of publications in the 70´s or i would have to pay each time something in a car that didn´t work, i learned somethings through the years or i wouldn´t be selling 2nd hand cars for 25 years and some repairs that are charged are simple as learn some about electronics and how to unscrew and screw some bolts or change a wire like on do at home when a plug gets disconected and one conects it again ,it makes me remenber the BMW´s 2002 that the one with 4 barrel carburator was fixable but when a ti or tii appeared was almost impossible to repair and that´s the reason i bought 7 of them very cheap but also bought the four barrel carburator as they asked me what today is 400€ maximum for each this in mint condition and either than a Alfa-Romeu 2000 GT veloce from 72 my other 90´s car was a mint BMW 2002 and 1502 this 75 models from the same colour only one had a rpm counter and other a clock, also some 74 ,75 ,76 520 ,3000 CS and 645i all still with chromed side mirrors, some that today are in mint condition when i bought them in the 80´s or 90´s were sold as destroyd and with some hours with help from a friend they become tuned perfect
@@RUfromthe40s I don't know if you're talking about the XM or the C6, but none of them go to 100 in 7 secs. I have, on one website, seen internet data on something called a XM V6 Performance, manuel, which supposedly goes takes 7,8secs to reach 100KM/T or 60MPH (don't remember which it was). ..but standard numbers are something like 8,4 as the fastest to 100KM/T i've seen listed for a manuel, and around 9secs for an automatic. Topspeed: 235 for the fastest, and 230KM/T for the automatic..as far as i remember. And: One thing is ho fast they go if absolutely floored, another how fast they are in daily use. The guy who owned the XM i experienced also ran a Peugeot 2,0 auto (petrol), and he said that irl the Peugeot was at least as fast as the Citroen because of lover weight. I LOVE those cars, but such a big car with around 200HP isn't fast.
Lost skills: Sadly i fully agree. In my family i had a mechanic who was trained around 60 years ago from now. He learned how to rebuild engines because they had to do that all the time back then. The skills on that guy.. He could fix more or less anything, and, as an example, easily constructed a honing device for a scooter that needed a new cylinder, just like that. Such a shame that those skills are disappearing.
With regards the transmission issue, I had something similar with a RAV4 a few years back. At the time I was a transmission development engineer and was convinced it was the valve block and/or contamination. Turns out it was the transmission ecu, a PCB inside had broken down rendering the car unable to decide when and how to shift.
(Not a mechanic but I had this problem with a GM car.) What I thought. Stalling at a stop has to mean the lockup clutch isn't releasing if it's transmission caused. If the trans didn't shift back down into 1st gear it wouldn't matter. The torque converter would still slip allowing the car to idle. Either the ecu isn't telling it what to do, or (like mine) the solenoid or whatever it is that works the clutch was sticking. It was on the outside on that transmission, so the whole repair cost was around $300. The bad shifting could be internal or again a bad ecu. I had a bad ecu that controlled the wipers on that car, and they only screwed up on hot days. Then they went nuts. Anyway since like most automatics this one is used on a lot of cars any transmission shop should know the ins and outs, unlike with Citroen-only components.
It's a beautiful car I've liked them since they came out brilliant buy
John
I have a 2011 C5 X7 2.0 HDI 16 Comfort (Hydractive 3+). When I bought it about 18 months ago, the biggest problem it had was a broken dipstick. Whoever worked on it last filled the oil to the bottom of the broken dipstick. My Citroen mechanic pumped out the 3l of overfilled oil, the display stopped saying "oil level improbable" and all was right with the world. It was due a timing belt change so that was done, waterpump, serpentine belt and all fluids, including the transmission.
Interestingly, while it does say "filled for life" in the FRONT of the owners manual, the service record has an item for Automatic Transmission fluid every 50, 000 km. This had been done once in the then 150, 000 km of my cars life, but the fluid was now orange. It was changed (as much as you can) at that major service, and again 5,000 km later. All good again. 30, 000km later, still fine.
I am a fan of Aisin transmissions but, as you say, "sealed for life" is a load of crap.
The C5 Aisin auto has an oil life indicator. But it can only be access through the diag computer.
It definitely doesn’t need to be changed every 50000km. It’s design to last 400000km or 10 years under normal conditions.
@@dufonrafal I looked in the service manual for my C5 and it says automatic transmission oil change is recommended every 60,000 kms. According to the service record this was done at a Citroen dealer at that mileage. So 90,000 km and 6 years later, the fluid was no longer pink. I am comfortable following my mechanic's recommendations.
@@cme2cau Which C5 do you have ? An old 4 speed ? Which country ?
@@dufonrafal I had a 307 with that dreadful 4 speed. I am in Australia and it is a 2011 6 speed with the 2.0 HDI 16 valve. It is possible that the fluid change at 60k didn't happen as I did not own the car at that stage. It was a country car so, while not doing as many changes, the transmission would have been exposed to temperatures that regularly exceeded 35C and occasionally over 40C.
@@cme2cau It's possible that the 60k oil change is due to Australian weather, most likely sand.
Look forward to the future videos on this one! Always interesting to see these "too complicated - can't fix" situation cars be fixed and often it turns out simpler than expected.
Not sure why I’m watching this, I don’t even own a Citroen but I do enjoy the diagnosis process? The SM is a fabulous looking car and a very interesting project, can’t wait for future episodes.
Cheers!
Awesome! Looking forward for more C6 videos :D
Great video - read your PH bits & pieces, good to hear it too. Vehicle Excise Duty 😉 - not spent on roads since before Andre Citreon passed away sadly.
VED, that was it. Either way, I'm getting done dry.
@@UPnDOWN oh indeed - could turn to booze & drugs, if that wasn't even worse...
Looking soooo forward to more C6 content! I am so glad that you takle one of my most wanted cars. Gives me a lot of info when buying :) If i only had a lift ... and not just bought a Ro80 :-D But some time in the future!
An Ro80? Very cool!
Wow can't believe it i had a c6 2.7 hdi in black loved all the guirks got so much attention just coming to the end of a nsu Ro80 restoration can't wait to drive it
As with all hydraulic faults the problems only show when the system is hot and the oil has thined, less viscosity. The problem is usually worn seals, spool valves and pumps.
However, please check any oil cooler for blockages as this can cause the above problems if oil is too hot.
Jong.
I've been waiting for a video on the C6 since I saw your driving it on the hubnut channel. For what you paid for it, you got a bargain. When you keep on top of all the jobs that need doing to it, you'll have yourself a decent car.
Interesting story and it's a lovely car and bit of a classic. Saw a few of these over the last few years and love the design. Hope you get it bk to full health and enjoy it
My Dream car. Here in brazil they are quite rare, Citroen sold this in 2006 or 2007 but the price was equal to a bmw series 3 or a mercedes, and people here prefer german cars. today if 60 of these cars are alive is a lot!
Lovely cool car, looking forward to seeing the progress.
My Man sat on that chair you could tell a great Christmas Story 😜 but as I like it and the content I have subscribed 👍
The C6 is a car I've always wanted, and at one time I wouldn't have hesitated to buy one. That however was in the days when I had access to a car lift and workshop facilities, now I don"t. I didn't know about the crank issue, that is very poor and would deter me from the V6 now, problem is, the twin turbo hdi 4 is mega rare, particularly in exclusive form. The C6 is just so superb though, styling, interior, gadgets etc. And then there is the ludicrous level of car tax, which I strongly resent paying to the government thieves. Look forward to further vids on this though, it may reduce my fear factor to the point I buy one anyway, you never know!
The crank issue isn't common in PSA vehicles, it's more the Land Rovers that use the engine (presumably due to the extra weight etc)
By the way. Love the Imp. My father won a Hillman Imp at his local club for the price of a 5p raffle ticket in the mid 1970's. A famous cricketer and a mate came round the house to tell us he had won, on a cold dark winters evening. My dad thought it was protestant paramilitaries and wouldn't come down the stairs initially, as the paramilitaries had threatened to target Catholics on the mainland at that time, and he thought his number was up. Same colour and all. P reg it was.
You're onto it mate.... congrats on the C6! Would love one.
I had a 407 coupe with that engine and box which developed that gearbox problem, ended up having to sell it with the problem as I was getting a company car and working in the Middle East for a while so didn’t have time to try and sort it. Regret selling it to this day, considering what I got for it!
Had a V70 t5 with similar issues with the autobox. A couple of flushes and a bottle of lubegard made a massive difference. The first flush produced something akin to treacle. Odd that Volvo built the car to easily last the 200k it had travelled, but decided a sealed your life gearbox was a good idea.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant video. Love these car show type chats.
I'd have a C6 in a flash, if I lived near your garage and you agreed to help keep it right.
I don't though, by about 400 miles, and you haven't, so I'll stick with the CX and be happy with that. Not difficult!
Ah well, a CX isn't such a bad thing to have to stick with...
Watching this brought back memories of my C4 by Loeb!
My uncle had a Red 3.0 HDi new has a company car.
I made a joke to buy something that didn’t have a reputation for reliability because he had terrible reliability from his Audi, BMW and Mercedes all enjoyed the comfort of the main agent workshop than the open road.
So he got one of these it was 100% reliable over three years and brought the car afterwards when he was laid off kept it another 2 years and just never went wrong.
I was an apprentice with Citroen specialist in the early 90s working mainly on 2cv GSA CX odd SM, BX, Xantia, XM’s and other normal models.
If the transmission oil is that black then it’s due an overall and I don’t think just a valve body or a solenoid which is a common issue on Renault 4 speed Automatic.
And has from the 1st April the RFL on the C6 as gone up to £615.
Sorry
Great channel first watch.
I worked at Gefco in 08/09. We had 3 of these unsold. Spent many hours skiving in them
They're a good place to sit!
@@UPnDOWN I've just read since Stellantis🕺 sold it's 25% stake in Gefco it is now 75% owned by the Russian Railways (RZD)
Great video mate, just bought my first Citroen today.......
Citroen C4 Cactus 🌵.......
Congrats!
Our second one *the rescue has an issue with the gearbox: wecan drive it without any sort of problem, on the highway, as long as we want (slow or fast) until you don't come to full stop, there is no issue. No clunks, shakes, noices when normal driving. But when we need to break to stop entirely the car might start shaking, and the engine sometimes stops. We were told it's the torque converter in our case. Also we noticed that we can shift gear without pushing the break on this one (and of course it starts driving right away). Any idea on this one? We have even more limited knowledge about this :)))
If it only causes an issue when stopping then it could be the torque converter. I would do a few fluid changes if you haven't already. You can move the lever between R/N/D/sequential without holding the brake, yes. You need the brake pressed to get it out of P.
@@UPnDOWN that is the thing, I can move it out of park on this car 🥺🥴 without pressing the break
@@fulminatorc6 *brake*
@@emjayay Danm, LOL I was using it wrong for who knows how long. Thanks for pointing it out. Sounds the same :D
thank you for the awesome content you never fail to provide!!! keep it up!!
You had a C4 3-door (the version I like, styling-wise) - they draw heavily on the design prototype Citroen displayed at the NEC Motor Show in 2002. I took some photos!
That prototype was designed in 1999, too! Saw it at the Conservatoire. Couldn't believe it when I found out how early the design was!
I did the flush several time on the c6, the gearbox run much better after. About 12l in. It started to become red. I think 17l would be perfect, like new.
I love the look of the C6. Big French luxo-barge in the greatest tradition. It's the 407 interior that lets it down. The overly complex heating and ventilation controls compared to my C5 that makes me think twice.
The heating and ventilation controls were also used in the higher-spec C5 mk1. To be honest, I've had a 407 too, and the C6 feels pretty different inside, despite the HVAC controls and indicator/wiper stalks etc.
I'm glad they spent the money on frameless doors, steering headlamps and active spoiler, tbh. I can live with the buttons! They're not difficult to use anyway.
@@UPnDOWN My C5 has been my favourite car of all time. It's so freindly and easy to use. For example, the door bins are made of the perfect plastic to grip any drink can I place in it without spilling. Try that on other cars, and I'm cleaning up a soggy mess. The controls, big and simple to use with immediate effect ( No processor required to change cabing temp etc. ). Beautiful looking car and oh, so frugal and comfortable. Only downside is, my stereo typical light metallic blue hatchback, with a slight dent in the boot lid, has super low status. Excellent when facing off with a JLR product down a double parked road, I always get flashed to go first. Really bad, when driving around the 'bad lands' of the Southern Irish 'border' villages on a winters night. Got actually run off the road by "vigilantes" at 8 pm on a winters evening, and then they had the gall to call the cops on 'ME'. Suspicious activity in the area.
"Hello, is that the Up and Down home for retired Citroens please?" I recall seeing these new at a motor show... as 'spaceship' as my dad's old CX Reflex (wrecked when the cambelt snapped apparently, god rest it's soul)
This one's not retired yet, it's still dailying!
@@UPnDOWN Good point, not even semi-retired then!
same make gearbox as my Mini R53 Auto (Aisin) Mine was doing the same, new valve body was required.
I suspect you've already done it by now, but in relation to the tf80sc, it doesn't quite select neutral but disengage the turbine. Remaining in third is the 'I've failed but will get you home mate' default.
I'm sure you did , but after a fluid flush the oil counter should be reset. You can also use the lexia to do a full or partial initialization of the ecu, which is quite important.
If it is the valve block (and being a 2007 car it probably is) you might want to consider a sonax block.
I think I reset it...certainly tried to. Not sure about the initialization though, will have to check.
Worth doing, but if you go full reset you'll need to go for a long drive with lots of differing driving so it relearns...
great job m8.love youre dedication
I was sure I recognised this car and the backstory sounded very familiar! I know the previous owner. I just got it confirmed and notified him to watch this. He loved that car.
Still love her and glad she is being looked after by her new owner!
I had very similar gbox problems with a 2001 Volvo V70 (Aisin Warner gbox). It did flares just like you described.
Did full ATF flush on the machine.
The ATF came out Coffee Brown... gbox never really was perfect.
Yep, pretty much the same box (or a variation of it).
Love the idea of a C6 buuuuuttt. I'll live the C6 life through you. Cool.
Lovely car, I had a Mercedes ML auto and the fluid type and EXACT amount of fluid was paramount even after changing conductor plate and valves otherwise it had similar gearbox faults, worth checking maybe.
Used to place C6s in TV shows - one appeared in Spooks and even created a C6 police car - wonderful machines
You used to, as in a professional capacity?
@@UPnDOWN Yes - worked with Citroen for a few years - supplied Xantia to EastEnders, C5 to Waking the Dead, and even a C3 to Last of the Summer Wine. Think we even got a C3 Plurial Charleston into something
I had all those 3 problems on my citroen c5 to, first handbrake, faling due to incompetent people working testing the car when i get it reregistered and they pull the hand-brake when the car is moving and in drive without pressing the brake pedal first, second suspension link braking because again of dumb vulcaniser personal who don't raise the suspension on the max level or service mode and than lift the car from the ground, and when they lift it in normal height and than lower it it causes the hydropneumatic pump to fail and also creates damage to the rear trap of the vehicle so the trap screws get bend and that causes the height scensor to fail, now the gearbox i also have the same problem and i can say that it is citroen's fault for this one because the same sc-80 am6 gearbox is used by other car brands and it works great on those cars but not on Citroen and Peugeot so yes it is the valve solenoid block i still have to fix it on mine but for now i drive it in winter mode and the shifter just goes in 3th gear so i don't have any problem driving it but the thig that i cant get it inreverse is problematic .
I had the third gear slippage too. Needs valve chest. So I sold it. I had to rev it hi in 2 nd and shift manually into 4 th
Reverse was bad too. So all same issues
well done. straight to camera in one fluid chat is an amazing skill. oh yea, nice car!
There was a bit of editing involved...
Will you open a little shop for the channel ? I desperately NEED a UPnDOWN sticker for my "brand new" Xantia, and maybe others would buy one too.
Love the C6.
I always joked I'd do it if I hit 10k subs....but I'm over halfway there now, and starting to get nervous!
Outstanding- I am in Australia and have been looking for one of these for over a year but these are both rare and extremely expensive - over 30kAUD
Cheaper to buy one in the UK and have it shipped over.
There's one going for 9 grand on Trademe in Auckland, if you don't mind the shipping.
They were shockingly pricey when new in Australia. I remember drooling onto the dealership showroom floor.
I see these on the road from time to time in Melbourne, Australia. Certainly a unique, odd looking car.
I love your explanation of all the cars you work on. As I previously said in other comments. People like yourself are few and far between. I need your help with my cars. Not like the garages near me I could do without there negative energy telling me they can't fix things. Yessssssssss you can
Depends what you need doing!
@@UPnDOWN Brake lines connected to brake servo as I have literally no time anymore, nor the facilities to do such things.
Hi mate, When it comes to Cambelt time, being the same as the discovery 3/range rover sport engine, just be aware there is 2 belts, the main front belt controlling crank and cam timing and a rear belt controlling high pressure pump. the rear belt is a body off job on the range rover sport and a just about doable job on the discovery 3, i dread to think what it's like on a C6, even the main belt looks like a tools thrown across the workshop type job, i think thats why i don't do cambelts.
Cheers. The cambelt was done around 2017 (I think), but I'm not sure if the pump belt was done too. I hope it was...
Always wanted one of these, I think they look great. Good luck with it!
Thanks!
It's a lovely car, but may I ask if it would pass the emissions test if all exhaust filters were removed and the ECU remapped to suit a freeflow air filter and exhaust ? I'm still running a bought from new 1997 Peugeot 306 XUD9TE IDI turbo diesel, which I've tuned up a fair bit but still easily passes the MOT. Several of my pals have more modern direct injection diesels but perpetually get the warning light/clogged up and sometimes limp mode syndrome, which necessitates blasts along the motorway that they don't really want to do.
Well, possibly not, but it's mapped and fuelled to take those perameters into account. Diesel engines produce so much more power/torque than they used to that they need all the emissions gear. If you took it away, they'd be smokey, smelly diesels again. As for the 306, it'll pass the MoT easily because the test is less strict for older cars - if it was in the newer band like the C6 (which effectively needs a cat test) it'd struggle, I'd bet.
Had a peugeot expert that was basically new when I worked at peugeot that wouldnt lock up because the valve block was a dud. Stupid shop manager made us change the tourque converter 3 times before listening to the correct day1 diagnosis.
Ouch! Torque converter much more difficult to change than a valve block!
@@UPnDOWN Yes it is. It was such a foul display of incompetence in leadership. I was an intern at the time and could make the right diagnosis just by reading the printout from Diagbox. The guy who drove the van was thurroughly unimpressed to. He had had the van less then a year then we had it back for just over 2 months for a 90 minute repair.
Umm good luck. You may need it. I had one of these a 57 plate 2.7 Lignage at 18 months (16000 miles) to about 3 years and 3 months old. (42000 miles) Wonderful car when working right which was not very often
Fingers crossed!
I am incredibly jealous. I keep trying to convince my dad to get a C6 (I'm not brave or rich enough) so I can own one vicariously.
Get one while they're cheap, they won't be forever.
I share your enthusiasm for Saharan dust!
And for the upcoming C6 season.
And for a hydro-pnematic video-encyclopedia.
Hurrah!
Got a C6 2012 HDI 3.0, bought it new 40mpg, love it. Glad to see your going to fix it. ❤️❤️❤️. BTW they are quieter and slightly more comfy on 245/50s rather than 245/45s not sure what size you got?
245/45s on mine, as per standard.
@@UPnDOWN ok, worth thinking about when you get to change, reduces the crash on potholes, so far only on the front, asked my insurance company before changing, no increase in premium because they are not wider. I used to change to winter tyres and have a set of 17” which are better still for ride and noise. Anyway l still makes me smile when l see the C6 🤗🤗🤗 they are rare. There is Citroen specialist in Welwyn Garden City, that one a few miles from me says are really excellent. Mine always been serviced by the suppling dealer Roy Tolleys in Colchester.
The one thing you can say is the suspension is very good and reliable; just dont abuse it . Owned only Citroens since since i passed my test in 1975, and never had an issue; current car near 300,000 miles in it and never touched the engine or suspension.
100% agree. You just need to understand it, which nobody wants to.
Glad you were able to solve a few problems through some good thinking and some detective work. Now the gearbox, sealed for live means: hopefully the car will be scrapped within ten years so that the bad design does not come to the fore!
A work colleague has one, “ a money pit” according to him. Apparently Rumania is a good source of spares.
I suspect quite a few owners would class them a money pit, but compared to something else this advanced of that era, I would be surprised if it was any worse.
I had a C6 exclusive, the best car ever, unfortunately the road tax was crippling.
Nice car interesting video 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍👍👍
well that is another saved search on ebay for a c6, to go along with the BX, fox, 2cv, Camry......
You clearly enjoy the pain of the cars people would just give up on
I salute you sir. And would let you work on any of my odd fleet
Great video about a beautiful car from Citroën, they really didn't catch on so now Citroën call their more up-market cars DS, you'll probably be able to pick one of these up cheap in a few years from now, people will always choose an Audi, BMW or Mercedes for a luxury brand, when will Citroën learn.
I wouldn't want a 'DS' brand car, to be honest. They're DS in name-only. I like the look of the DS5, but I'm told the drive is poor. The only Citroen I can see myself warming to in the future is an early Cactus.
I think I've found my Channel. I also bought a cheap C6 that need a lot of work, Heater Vent issues, blown expansion tank+++ Got it sorted and drove in 8000km on my vacation last summer:) Did I mentioned that I'm also restoring an SM, and daily an XM and have a CX Gti Turbo2 waiting in the wing.. hehehe
You sound as broken as me!
@@UPnDOWN Hahahaha Birds of a feather
I'd love one.
I've owned a C5 just like Cecily. How would you say the ride compares when it's working right?
It's better than the C5. Much more controlled, too. Much, much sharper around bends etc, but then Cecily wasn't Hydractive 3+, just the basic Hydractive 3 (which isn't really hydractive, in its true sense)
@@UPnDOWN Thank you for enabling my next purchase!
Now I just need to not get distracted by an LS430 that appeared on eBay...
I have a same engined 407 Coupe 2.7 V6 and has the same problem with the gearbox when ir heats up there's a big knock between 1-2 gear or 2-3 gear but not always and there was a time when it's stuck in 3rd or 4th but then i shutted down wait a few mins and restart the problem gone. Then it got the computer of the gearbox cleaned from issues and the stucking has'nt appeared again yet. I'm interested in what you find with this problem.
Great video, thank you! After many years of not being brave enough I finally bought a C6 last November. What a machine! I've owned a CX and XM in the past but they never seemed as potentially scary as the C6. All has been well (even my wife likes it) until two days ago when I have handbrake failure/ABS failure/ASR failure now flashing at me 😞.. I'm wondering whether this will bankrupt me? Handbrake motor seems to be trying to work.....
Check the cables aren't seizing (you'll have to remove them to do this, which will need DiagBox/Lexia to put it into service mode). Any issues with that often trips the ABS failure codes, too.
@@UPnDOWN thanks, I'll try that. Appreciated!
No final dos cabos, tem uma bucha de plástico que costuma quebrar.verifique,pois a mesma acusa tudo isto no painel.saudações desde Brasil.
@@josemelo6259 thank you
I have met this handbrake/ABS/ASR failure for two times now in 6 years that I have owned a C6. Both times it was a faulty ABS sensor. Cost was ~30 €
Your car selection is an impractical crime of passion … madness … but keep it up ;) some of these era of cars are too clever by half complexity wise, knew a guy who bought an exotic bmw with a trick auto 6 speed gearbox with steering located racing style manual paddle levers, sounds like similar trouble, cost too much too repair by his pocket but this is how modern cars go, you got the tools the garage and strength to keep her alive. Some of these issues sound like design flaws that need 3rd party fixes to make them good, the nice thing about a manual gearbox, is you can nurse them carefully by listening to them bite wise.
I built a BMW like that once, funnily enough.
holy cloaks when did you take the SM outdoors? 28:47
When it arrived on a truck I think.
That was the day it arrived. Only been outside once with me.
I had Mine for 3 years and 110 000 miles . It needed work every 6 months . It was 18 months old when I got it . Great to drive but awful to maintain !
110,000 miles over three years is pretty intense usage, to be fair!
Is it worth disconnecting the transmission cooler lines, and putting the return line in new transmission oil starting the engine run through the gears (on tickover ) so the new transmission oil gets sent through the system pushing the old oil out through the cooler feed line ? I did this on an old Jeep xj the had never had its fluid changed and it worked quite well
Ace video subscribed 👍🏻
It's coolant that goes through the cooler (shared with radiator) so probably not a good idea! It's more of a heat exchanger than anything. There is a bung underneath it, and I have wondered if it would be possible to rig something up to that.
@@UPnDOWN
Pretty straightforward, on most transmissions there will be a feed and a return line to the transmission cooler, personally I would get rid of the heat exchanger and just have a stand alone cooler for the transmission.
My experience with heat exchangers and transmission coolers built into the engine radiator is that they tend to burst with age filling the transmission with engine coolant
Just bought a 2006 Peugeot 407 with very low kms 96k / 59k miles, and have read about the AM6 auto gearbox issues. Mine occasionally hard changes from 6th to 5th on a hill. Just wondering how you will be tackling your gearbox issues. New valve bodies seem to be about UKP780 for a new genuine item. I was thinking of doing a fluid change (with correct Esso oil) and hoping that might correct it. Cheers, Steve Sydney, Aus.
I'd do 3-4 changes with it and see where you end up. 5th-6th is an odd place for the initial problems to occur.
that was a fantastic car when it came out ,i had to buy it was kind of the feeling when in early 90´s i bought a XM but maybe not the same this is more regular than the XM in 1990, this type of car in not comparable with anyother on the road maybe the S-class from mercedes is almost confortable as this C6
By the way, does yours have a functioning cruise control? Mine is somewhat functioning, moving the steering column will bring it back to life mostly. Ive read from c6owners forums that the cruise control is a pretty standard thing to go, but I've been too lazy to troubleshoot it(and I don't have the tools or know-how to tinker with it myself, I got a local Citroen garage who knows the pneumatic stuff etc)
Just wondering, if there is a chance you making a video about it, if yours is problematic too.
Only electrical problem that the car has, so far at least
Yeah it works fine, most of the time. They do suffer from poor connections around the steering column though, so it's likely related.
Sounds good to me - as it's an Exclusive it will have all the toys too! What's not to like? 😁 Also, as you knew exactly what you were buying, there shouldn't be any more nasty surprises.
Yeah I think I'm fine with my recently purchased interesting European sedan, a 2005 Alfa Romeo 166. Hell of a lot more simple than the c5 (and my E39 03 530i m sport). That said, always been interested in these cars, especially seeing as I'm pretty sure they weren't ever sold in Australia.
I like the 166 too
Love the C6 but you have reminded me why I don't have one.
I haven't shown you what you're missing yet...haha
Fantastic Citroen collection - well done! I had the pleasure of owning an identical spec C6 registration GJ59UYO. As someone with no mechanical ability I sold her when it became clear that my local Citroen garage weren’t really able to service her properly. Truly the last proper big Citroen.
Yeah, sadly the dealers weren't too fussed by it. Most of the GJ59 cars were pre-registered by Citroen UK, and were a couple of years older than the reg suggests. Most were unsold stock that they needed clearing before the facelift and 3.0 came out. Probably sold them all at a loss, including mine!
Nice explanation. ⚙️🔧😎
Sounds great, good luck with it! I'd love one, but so far, sanity has prevailed, although I do have another daft flakey car with similar issues for bits etc.
Cool cars I have 2.2 C5 08 new great car but less complicated than a 6
Why did you buy a £750 C6? Why would you not, even if just to look at it!! Want one! Is it the same engine as in the Jag XF 2.7 diesels I have had in recently?
That was my logic - if it borks, I can just sit in it.
Same engine as the Jag, yes. Mounted transversly, though.
Lovely car, if only I had the bravery (or the ability to find a cheap 2.2 hdi). Sounds like a classic case of slide and bump, I had a VW with the 09G gearbox (pre-dsg) and the “sealed for life” bit me on the ar*e at almost exactly 100k miles when the valve body began to break up and cost me 1200 quid at a slush box specialist. I remember at one point it banged into gear so hard my passenger thought we’d been rear ended and that’s when I knew I had to stump up!
The 2.2 is pretty rare, but then they're probably 95% as complex as this one. They don't have AMVAR, and the 2.2 engine is probably a little more tough than the 2.7, but they're still dual-turbo and still have a fair few complexities.