Can a PC flight sim teach you how to fly?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Welcome to part 2 of my now 2-part series on whether or not consumer flight sims can make for good training aids in real-world flight training. In my first video on the subject, I had had a total of 1 hour in real-world flight, and I used FSX as my primary point of comparison. At this point, I am an instrument-rated private pilot. (I made this video while I was waiting for my PPL checkride.) I've also primarily switched to X-Plane with Ortho4XP, and have an upgraded PC setup with dedicated controls and even VR to give sims the best chance at helping me with my training. In what ways are sims a good training aid, and in what ways are they just video games?
Apologies for the soft focus on me that starts about halfway through the video - I only noticed that after editing and exporting, and I've got to move on to other things at this point, so no time to reshoot it. Luckily you don't have to look at my mug all that often after that point in the video :)
One thing I didn't mention that I wish I had was force feedback. Back in the day, I had a Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick, and it went a long way in simulating those physical forces that you just don't get in a sim. (My stick broke, or I'd still use it.) Yes, you can feel the air pushing back on your control inputs in a small plane. No, you can't in an A320, but nobody's learning to fly in an A320. Small planes generally have their flight controls connected directly to the flight control surfaces through pushrods or cables, so you do feel a lot through the hands in a light aircraft.
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Hey, so here's an updated pinned comment based on what I'm seeing from some of the more recent comments. I should clarify that by "learning to fly", yes, I mean actually obtaining your first license - not just taking a discovery flight. A discovery flight is an introductory lesson - it's a fun ride designed to figure out if flying is really for you, and I recommend one for anybody who's interested in flying. But your chances of successfully completing one are not affected one bit by whether you've simmed or not, and frankly, you won't know much more in terms of really knowing how to fly after completing one than you will beforehand. Your instructor is there to ensure you're not going to put the plane into the ground or another plane in any situation that might come up - they won't be once you've got a license. Really learning to fly is about learning to fly *safely* on your own or with passengers. As I say in the video, we all pretty much understand the very basics of how flight works, but the 35 or so lessons you'll take before your PPL checkride exist to teach you how to fly without killing yourself or anyone else, which is a real and constant danger in GA flight. (Airline flight is very safe; general aviation is no safer than driving a car, and trust me, there are idiots in the sky just like there are idiots on the road.) Your PPL checkride is a combination of ensuring you know how to fly safely, know all the pertinent regulations, know all you need to know about how weather works and how to interpret aviation weather products, and are able to complete certain maneuvers in real-world weather to very specific tolerances. Can sims help with any of that? Well... that's what this video's about.
I have flown for a couple decades and I think the SIM is a great way to stay proficient in both VFR to IFR. Sure it is not like the real thing, but considering that much of flying is in your head and being prepared---SIM flying does a very good job of keeping your mind sharp. I would say that if you flew a SIM while training to fly in the real world---you would say time and money and be a better pilot when it was all said and done. And did you mention avionics in the cockpit? There are several packages (like the Garmin 1000 or 500 or 430 or 650, etc.) where learning to train with a SIM is way cheaper and quicker than trying to learn in the real plane (not optimal when you are suppose to keep your eyes open outside the cockpit and not in it). Thanks for the video.
Modern Classic wow, you just exoressed all my thoughts, I was a simmer for the last 20 years, and now started my PPL and gone through all this lol
I did a discovery flight (my local aero club called it a trial flight) last Saturday after simming for about 4 1/2 years. Before the flight, the chief instructor gave me a briefing, and because of my experience with flight sims (not to mention reading articles and watching videos related to aviation), I knew a fair bit - he joked I should be briefing him! I still made sure to listen very carefully to everything he said. Another moment where I felt my flight simming experience helped me was during takeoff - when the instructor told me to rotate, I only applied a small amount of back pressure, because from flying light aircraft in FSX, Prepar3D and X-Plane, I knew that the plane (a Piper Tomahawk, incidentally) would lift off very easily once at the right speed. While in flight, I certainly felt the effects of turbulence etc., which is something flight sims can't imitate. But that wasn't too much of a shock for me, because the sensations are fairly similar to experiencing turbulence as a passenger on an airliner. When I had control of the aircraft, it seemed to need a lot of constant gentle correction, but I didn't find this hugely different to the way similar planes behave in flight sims. One thing I was guilty of was looking a bit much at the instruments (when I had the controls) and not enough outside. That is probably one bad habit flight simming teaches you (particularly for VFR flying, although it's maybe a good thing for IFR flight further down the line).
If I do progress further into real flying, I will definitely use my home flight simulators to practise things I learn. They can help you with certain things and teach you a lot, but as you say, they have their limitations as well. I guess as long as you utilise their strengths and be aware of their limitations, they can be a real benefit.
Vatsim ATC go through extensive training. There are too many pilots to train, so the can't. That is obvious. Although, the ATC can be trained and are. If you want to learn more, look up how to become an Air Traffic Controller on VATSIM. Many people dive into the process. As far as I see it, they do a good job. You should try out VATSIM, it is completely free so I don't see why not.
what apps did you have on your ipads?
I learned myself to fly with a PC flight simulator (FS5 and up) I used a PPL theory book and practiced all the maneuvers and theories in the simulator. In flight school I never needed an extra lesson and I passed all exams in the minimum available time. Now I fly the 737-NG for a major airline. I still use these sims to practice for my bi-annual checks. In the end, my joystick and flight sim PC came out to be my best investment ever. So thank you MS-flights and X-Plane! For making my dreams come true!
Dude, that's awesome. Good on you man!
This is insane
You have no idea how much i searched that kind of comment
That’s awesome, very motivating. Out of curiosity, what theory book did you read?
I want to take try to get my PPL next year when I’ll be 17. Right now I just have a simple setup with X-Plane 11 and a joystick, but I think it should be enough to learn the basics of flying. So, what book do you recommend to learn more about flying airplanes?
BRO PUT UP A FLIGHT SCHOOL WHERE YOU CAN TELL STUDENTS TO MASTER XPLANE OR MICROSOFT SIM AND AFTER THEY MASTER IT JUST ASK THEM TO COME OVER TO THE HANGAR AND JUST CHARGE THEM FOR THE RENTAL OF THE PLANE AND PILOT TEACHER FOR REAL LIFE TRAINING. THAT SHOULD REDUCE THE COST AND TIME FOR THE STUDENTS
When I started flying lessons in 2003, I already knew the function of all instruments. The only thing that flight sims lack is the "feel" of the real airplane.
Right. FSX helps a lot, but doesn't 'really' teach you to fly. It taught me enough to be classed as an 'Advanced Student' when I did learn to fly. I found FSX harder to fly than real planes, mainly the visual and feel feedback.
Helps you gets you license, quickly. Sure, if getting if fast is your goal. What if you have your certs already. I'd like to now how many pilots still use a sim after they gain their desired certs, and why.
When I was going through pilot training I modeled my local airport and imported it into Fly! I'd spend an hour or so every evening simulating pattern work and shooting landings. I soloed at 10 hrs and took my check-ride at 42 hrs. Both my instructor and the flying school owner attributed my lower than average hrs before being cleared for both events to my simulator time.
Yes, the feeling isn't there, you can get a simulated plane outside the envelope of it's real-world analogue easily, and (unless you're willing to spend big $$$) the control layout and feel is different. But, for getting down the intangibles like cockpit management, visually referencing your height over the runway by the orientation of the runway in your view, dealing with ATC, etc...these skills can be enhanced with sims.
Hey mate, did you use Ortho4XP to model the scenery around your local Airport?
@@RyanLoveMegenNicole Nope. I've never heard of that program. I'm pretty sure it didn't exist two decades ago. It also appears to be only for X-Plane, which isn't the simulator I used.
WELL just to be fair and balanced...in 1988 i did my solo in 10.2 hrs and checkride (PPL) in 44.2 hours. AND never touched a computer. We didnt even have computers then. So...just sayin before anyone goes out and drops 2000$ on sim stuff....you could use that money for 12 hrs of dual instruction in an airplane.
@@redleader I'm debating spending $$ on a sim. I'm 53. My goals are to become a CFI, and retire from my current career (software security), and teach aviation. I need lots of hours. I have 50 logged and will get my my PPL soon, but I'll then need ~200 more. Some of that will be obtained getting more certificates, add-ons and endorsements. I'm not sure spending money on a sim will help me reach my goal. I have no desire to fly a sim as a game.
I’ve got my Privat pilot permit in 1970 on a 150. My first solo was in the biggest turbulence and they changed runway on me. I was too high, did a go around and landed fine. We had to do spins too. I learned to fly because I was afraid of flying. Rented 172s for about 18 years, stopped because it was too boring. Communication was the hardest. Bought a radio and listen to it for weeks, especially cause English is not my mother tongue. Good show, you are 110% right.
It's 2019, almost 2020. Why does ATC still sound like ordering from McDonald's drive thru in 1983?
It doesn't in real life, at least not in the headset I have. X-Plane voices are super clear, although not realistic in any other way. Hopefully the new MSFS finally gets things right.
if you mean Real life ATC, that is because of the way the radio works , its still analogue on a rather old technology with a lot of background noise from both sides.
Because X Plane is complete dumpster fire ripoff of Flight Sim. Microsoft did everything right, these guys did everything wrong and just stole assets from Flight Sim. Wait for the 2020 Microsoft Flight Sim, should have some fantastic ATC, actual traffic, everything X Plane never had without mods or that they couldn't rip off.
@@mynameisray yeah sure, that's why MS completely sued laminar research.
Dude X plane was developed for MAC in the beginning ,clearly you have no clue what you are speaking about. It was also developed from scratch with a complete different mindset for flight dynamics.
But i'm sure you have used the early version of both products and are an experience pilot with many hours under your belt.
probably even an airline pilot or fighter pilot.
duh...
this is VHF radio, one at a time, often inaudible but because of a speed and distance these are freqs fit to communicate, it takes time and practice to be able to understand, when working at BHX it took me a month or so to 'learn' understanding comms on 109-120 MHz (aviation as marines use different freqs of VHF radios)
I am a CFI and have to say that you absolutely nailed the benefits of a PC based flight sims as well as their inadequacies. They are great for IFR training, learning basic flight procedures, acclimation to systems and flight controls, use of checklists, landing pattern setup, go-around procedures, emergency operations, etc. All aspiring pilots and instrument students should have access to as good a flight sim system as their budget will allow. ESPECIALLY instrument students.
I can always tell when a ‘0’ time primary student comes my way that has had access to a PC sim. They get in the groove MUCH faster than someone that never flown a sim.
However, for realistic “stick and rudder” training....they fall way short. I have not seen any PC based system properly emulate stalls, spins, cross wind (re: cross control) landings or takeoffs or even realistic taxi operations. Tailwheel simulation on any of these platforms is a total joke which is too bad. Hopefully, someone, someday, will develop a PC program that faithfully replicates actual aircraft performance.
Anyway, great video. Not sure where you are with your training, but good luck to you,
Personally, I do think that home flight sims REALLY do teach you a lot for real world flying. I played around with flight sims for many, many years. One day, whilst visiting a Sunday market at a local airport, I saw a Flight School and thought, what the hell, lets have a look.
To try and cut a long story short, I did a trial flight, then started taking lessons. My instructor was impressed about how I knew all the instruments, how fast a trainer plane (Piper Tomahawk in my case) descended and etc, etc. I did my solo at 20 hours, at the time, that was pretty darn good!
There is no doubt in my mind, flight sims greatly helped me. I reckon it shaved off a couple of thousand dollars off flying lessons.
Must admit though, after flying the real thing, flight sims have lost my interest. As good as they are, general home flight sims just cannot cannot fully simulate a real aircraft. But certainly go for them if you love the thought of flying and maybe one day do the real stuff.
Years of geeky flight simming has definitely helped me, my instructors did mention how quickly I was learning BUT I must say that when flying in the real world you use your whole body to feel the aircraft so much more than I would have thought! As a flight simmer I also have to learn to look outside of the aircraft as I seem to focus on the cockpit too much and look ahead instead of all around me... but used correctly it is a great training aid!
Edit: great video btw!
Just finished my PPL last July and have. been an avid Flight Simmer since HS and must say that it does help. I used Xplane 11 throughout my training and ended up finishing up my check ride and FAA PPL in about 55 hrs total and my sim helped alot of those. My CFI even noted that I was much better prepared in the aircraft during lessons and also my solo and especially cross country portions were very painless and quickly done. That was because I used my sim for checklist items (engine start, run-up procedures, etc) but also flew each and every cross country at least 2-3 times before we actually did it on Xplane first. Often flew actual flights we had just flown again afterwards on Xplane as well. In that way I was much better prepared on what I would see and where things should be from an orientation standpoint when in the real plane. Helped my comfort level especially when I was on those solo flights as I had the confidence as I'd done it before. Agree doesn't help for weather and wind and other forces of flight nor ATC interactions mostly but can make timing and reflexes and the mental aspects of flying a lot better and less familiar.
I am a real life airline pilot, I can tell you that even those Full Flight Level-D simulators we did our training in are not fully real. The control feel, the flight dynamics are about 85~90% close to a real airliner. I have both Boeing and Airbus ratings, if we only talk about the "flying" part of the simulator, they can only give you a general idea of what the plane will feel like. It will always be easier to fly a real aircraft. Every six months, we need to go back to simulator to do our recurrent training / check. All of us can immediately feel the difference of the real from the FFS Level-D sims.
s9360321: I flew heaters for the Air Force for 10 years and have been flying for an
airline since the late 90's. I agree with everything you say. Even Cat D sims have issues such as "training transfer" both positive and negative. I believe it was negative training transfer that was a causative factor in catastrophic mishap of AA 587 shortly after 9/11.
In addition to other problems add poor motion cueing to the list and, at least to me, the obvious lack of pilot motivation during the awareness or threat of danger.
The perception of danger and commensurate stress levels are often markedly reduced and pilots frequently make decisions, i.e., continuing an unstable approach when, if shooting an approach, they would elect a go around.
I can almost always I.D. a guy who spends a lot of time in home sims. They have a tendency to have their eyes locked onto the instrument panel even in CAVU conditions, rather than outside the aircraft.
I'm not knocking these "sims", they do have their advantages, but things can go south pretty quick in even a C-172 and there's no way you can build in a high pucker factor when you're sitting in front of a desktop and even if you wind up in a smoking hole you can walk away, perhaps wiser, but in no way knowing how you would handle a real mishap if airborne.
@@andredarin8966 I'm a student pilot, with no sim experience, for what that's worth. Perhaps the sims should focus only on what they are good at, and not try to be what they aren't good at.
Is it really easier flying a Boeing in real life? I would think it would be more difficult than the sim.
@@Verasterr its easier than its flight sim plane
I learned how to fly helicopters in VR and 6 months later I'm a legit helicopter pilot. I was hovering in 1.8.
is it that easy to learn to be an actual pilot?
@@SkippyOnMeBalls It can be if you practice. I was already a fixed wing pilot, so mine was just an add-on. Learning to hover is the hardest part, and practicing in VR makes it way easier, more accessible, safer, and cheaper.
What game did you use?
@@pkaser what sim did you use?
@@FirstnameLastName-mr8lk He never responded so you know he's full of 💩
The flightsimmers' pecking order:
1. Military pilots who also sim;
2. Airline pilots who also sim;
3. Former military and airline pilots who sim;
4. GA pilots who also sim;
5. Simmers who own a plane;
6. Former GA pilots who sim;
7. Simmers who have a PPL;
8. Simmers who used to have a PPL;
9. Student pilots who sim on the side;
10. Simmers who have become student pilots;
11. Simmers who have taken a discovery flight;
12. The rest of us.
Great comment ! I must be 9.5 as a former student pilot who couldn't afford it anymore and switched to sim
13, aircraft mechanics who also want to fly what they work on
@@marchovens that's gotta be higher than 9 at least though
12
@@marchovens
If you`re an A&P mechanic, I consider those folks pretty high up. Without them, nothing would fly at all. So, more like 5 or 4.
I think that PC flight sims does help with stick and rudder too. No simulated plane is a very realistic model of it's real counterpart, true (and mainly because the unrealistic feel of the joystick or yoke compared to the real life ones), but the general response of the plane to control inputs is correct, because the sim is just solving the physical equations of flight mechanics that the real planes fly on. So you can learn how power + pitch = performance, how throttle controls altitude and elevator controls speed, how you need MORE power to fly slower (and for example keep the approach path) below best-glide speed, how to crab to correct for crosswind and maintain the plane trajectory aligned with the runway, how you need to pull up to keep the nose from going down in a turn, and how a stall happens at a faster speed when you do that, just to mention a few. It will not FEEL the same when you get to the real plane, but you will experience the same phenomena and you need to do basically the same things with the controls to account for them. So even if you practice SERIOUSLY in a simulated Cessna 172 and then go and flight the real Cessna 172, it will not feel like you are flying the same plane, but you will feel like you are flying a plane! More or less like if you were transitioning from a different type. (except of course for the physical sensations of accelerations and rotations that cannot be simulated, not even (fully) in a real-iron Level D 6-axis-of-motion airliner simulator).
This is a valid point. I watch a lot of TH-cam pilots fly different types of planes. I was struggling with the Stinson L5 tail dragger in x-plane and by watching how real pilots fly real tail draggers was able to figure out what I was doing wrong and understand why I ended up doing ground loops and correct it. Now I can take off and land the thing without issues. With taildraggers, I was also running in some edge cases with x-plane where the sim just isn't realistic. Austin Meyer has recently been talking up some flightmodel changes that should help for the upcoming 11.40. So, it's not perfect but in general you can indeed use a sim to learn such things as stabilizing an approach, nailing your speeds, and correcting for crosswinds. All of these things are practiced a lot during real training.
Another point to make is that x-plane is actually used for commercial flight sims as well. The difference between the home version and the commercial version is a lot of equipment and a usb key that locks down the configuration. But it's the same software and it's being used to train pilots who can log hours on these things. It's realistic enough for the FAA.
A final point to make is that most commercial pilots don't actually hand fly most of the time. If you fly an airliner, the auto pilot goes on right after takeoff and does not come off until the plane is lining up to land. All the rest is button fiddling, checklist checking, procedure following, etc. All of which you can simulate and learn at home.
When I was learning to fly real aircraft, I would use Flight Sim prior to my flights to get a basic idea of the flight prior. I found Flight Sim to be a good supplemental tool for me. I had the opportunity to log quite a few hours in a C141 Full motion Simulator that was nighttime only. The instructor was quite surprised at how well I did. I think this was due to practicing instrument night flying with flight sim. Practicing engine outs and other scenarios in my opinion made me a better pilot.
You lucky dog! Most of my time in the C-141 sim was for a checkride.
A reasonable compromise between full VR and static is to use TrackIR. Having just got my PPL I agree with all your other points. For VFR the Orbx scenery is worth a look (at least in the UK).
I agree on most of the points. For me the native VR was a huge change for more realistic experience using photorealistic sceneries and 'study level' aircrafts. VR improves massively your situational awareness making landings easier. The sight of the runway coming out of the haze feels just like irl. Of course touch gloves or similar things would still improve the experience in the future. What I'm trying to say is that VR simulates the flight environment in 3 dimensional space the real way which a flat screen can't do.
Student pilot, just rigged XP11 with yoke and rudder, in real life learning on Cessna 172 and also Diamond DA40. Your TH-cam is appropriate and well-timed to my circumstances. Really appreciate your insight!
Was about to subscribe to PilotEdge, didn't anticipate one could end up with grumpy ATC on the other end! Will look into Ortho4XP. Also will be more realistic about how much (or little) my XP11 setup will help me with my training.
I like your presentation. Most others on TH-cam just rant without a prepared script, yours is well thought out and well presented, clear, and well edited.
18:06 I think the opposite of Captain Sully would be Captain Silly.
Captain suuuuuuuuck!
LMAO
I really thought he was gonna go for captain sucky
I agree I thought he would have said that since that s the first stuff that came to my mind 😁😆
Yes! Or "Captain Sh!tty"
I’m a real pilot, and everything you said is true.
i have been taught in a combat tank simulator, and had learned all the procedures and operation of the buttons!
in any case, you're not going to practice with a multi-million dollar vehicle, afterwards there is also a training tank with double control.
But the knowledge in flying with these flight sims has proved its worth in many emergency situations when the pilot suddenly became very ill!
even though they were helped through the traffic control!
I learn driving in a driving simulator 'Gran Turismo" and it gave me an idea how to do it correctly i real life. It made my senses a little bit sharper when it comes to maneuvering and using the brakes when in traffic. It made me a better gamer and a better driver...
Same here. I leaned about general car physics and how to remain calm during an emergency
Great video !!! In my opinion I think you're correct on all your points. To me the most difficult thing in flying is talking and understanding ATC. Talking, flying, understanding what ATC wants you to do is what's going to get you in trouble in real life if is not done right. I hated every time I had to ask ATC to repeat last transmission. Flightsims can teach you a lot of good stuff, but ATC "crap" is not one of them. Again, awesome video!!!!
I only saw your FSX video last night and was surprised to see the XPlane one today. I’ve used sims from the very early days and currently have FSX, P3d and XPlane 11. These sims are alll expanded with detailed scenery and photo realistic scenery. The planes I fly are only planes that model the systems accurately so I can fly them accordingly. When I was training for my PPL, my CFI was constantly singing my praises and promoting the simulator I use as evidence of the progress and skills I demonstrated in my lessons.
I now fly VR in addition to non-VR flights. I agree with the resolution issues but with high end computers, you can achieve much better resolution and there are new headsets that are improving on the original Rift. On the second point you made, there are addons that allow you to use and call up charts - paper or live in the cockpit along with POH details, checklists etc.
I appreciate simming has a way to go but it has come so far and who knows what’s around the corner. I agree you can learn bad habits. But if you decide to get serious and learn to fly correctly, the sim can be so much enjoyable and support your passion to fly.
Thanks again for presenting this information to us in a well balanced manner.
Regards, Paul
I certainly found Sims helpful in my Inst training.
Really helped my instrument scan while flying approaches.
Imagine how much more real MSFS 2020 is going to be, compared to the past.
True,but still pretty buggy tough
Thank you for a most informative video. Rarely do we see flight sym vs actual flying, well paced, no showboating, clear, precise point of view. excellent.
re: pilotedge, my 2c, ff PE controllers didn't act like they expected you to be a pro, there wouldn't be much training value in the service
similar thing about the airports covered, the goal is for you to learn the system not memorize the procedures at a single airport... you want to build your skills in a complex and potentially unfamiliar environment so you can apply them anywhere you fly in the US
definitely not for everyone though... great video, thanks for sharing!
I had a controller yelling at me on pilotedge. It was also really obnoxious to fly multiple states and have the same controller for ever tower. I'd never use it again. I got more out of just listening to Live ATC.
the geek that’s an interesting comment
Absolutely, positively, definitely YES. I told my Aviator friends to invest in x-plane and fly it in the comfort of their living rooms, the ones wo listened are better pilots now. Do not underestimate the power of repetition!
Loved the bad habit part about looking outside the aircraft.
Something worth trying if you can get a loan unit is TrackIR
It's a compromise with a lot less of the issues of VR.
If you ever do try it it is essential that Track IR is *DISABLED* in XP11, install X-Camera and use TrackIR via that instead.
Default XP11 TrackIR is horrible.
It's great to be able to look for traffic on final before taking the runway with just a simple thought and turn of the head.
Thank you for this video. It actually got me thinking quite a bit about the issue and how it has helped or hindered my own training.
I'm training in a 172 and my sim is set up with X-Plane, Samsung WMR, rudder pedals and a CH yoke. Honestly, after having VR I can't really go back to the monitor stuff although I very much appreciate your comments about not being able to see physical things around you (controls, tablets, etc.). As you note, the virtual controls and tablets can be a bit hard to use in VR and the image isn't as sharp as I'd like it to be (however, based on what I've heard from others, my setup seems much better than Oculus) but the immersive experience makes up for the shortfalls in my opinion.
I think the usefulness of the sim for training depends on what you are using it for. Does flying the sim make it easier for you to jump in the plane and pick things up more quickly? That's a hard thing to quantify. You'd have to know how you would have picked things up if you didn't do the sim which is impossible. I felt that it might have helped a little but I also felt totally lost at times in the real plane. I often felt I was learning all this stuff all over again.
Where I'm finding the sim really helping is practice after I've learned something. I find it especially useful for practicing stalls, spins, spirals and side-slips to re-enforce the muscle memory. The key is, I'm using it after I've learned something in the real plane. Practicing before just builds bad habits. I found I've had to unlearn many things that I was doing in the sim (I still forget carb heat because my sim plane doesn't have that and P-factor is poorly modelled in the sim so I have to really think about using the rudder). If you have a reference to work from (the real world) then the sim becomes a great tool for practice.
I really see the potential for the sim in instrument training and this has been confirmed from other pilots I have talked to. Usually, when you talk to a pilot and ask them about sims the first thing they will tell you is it's great for instrument training practice. Again, it's using it to keep up skills you have already learned. Not the other way around.
In the end, everyone learns differently. I'm a deep learner. That is, I need to know how everything is working to have it sink in. The sim has really helped in that regard. I can try different things in the sim that I wouldn't normally do in real life and see what happens. Most of the time it helps reinforce the fact that the plane isn't going to drop out of the sky and that a Cessna 172 will probably know a lot more about flying than I ever will.
What is your VR setup that is better than Oculus?
Dude, I usually bypass long comments like yours but I am glad I took the time to read yours. I am building my home setup with an HP VR headset but I am going to wait on learning certain things until after my real life pilot training in a couple of weeks. Thanks for sharing.
I fully agree with you. Learn to fly is a large term. Stick and rudder can only be learnt in a real airplane. But when it comes to procedures, ATC with PilotEdge (for me that s the only viable option to get in ATC skills and training), instrument flying, building muscle memory (I have a full replicate C172 cockpit, you can check in my TH-cam channel), and train for emergencies...then flight sim whatever the version, is absolutely a nice way to remain proficient and gain confidence in the real cockpit. It helped me to get my PPL with lower amount of hours and even though I don t fly anymore since 2 years now, I m sure I won t be lost if I have to fly again tomorrow!
Good to see you back sir! Always looking forward to seeing your videos.
well done mate. Some of the stuff you said in terms of RW flying isn't 100% correct, but you have the right gist of it when considering where you are in your training (I'm not gonna judge you for it, I made LOADS of mistakes when I was uploading videos with the same level of experience you have, with worse production quality to boot). More importantly, your conclusions are actually spot on. I've been saying for a long time that the X-Plane flight model isn't anywhere as great as hard core fans keep claiming. Stalls are a joke. In fact, anything outside of the normal flight envelope is *completely* *unrealistic* in X-Plane. I love both P3D and XP, and use both. When it comes to GA flying, I prefer P3D, because even though it does behave more linearly, from a practical point of view, it's more realistic.
One thing I'll say about VR is, you're 100% right, it's pretty useless for practice. I got the Motion sensors that supposedly allows you to control the aircraft with you hands, but it brings a whole range of new problems. What I found it useful for, practicing flows in the A320 when I was prepping for my type rating. It allowed me to become comfortable with the flight deck and in general made my "armchair flying" more fun, which means I practiced more and was thus more prepared when I started my type rating.
Good luck with your training man :)
Also, sending you a PM. I'm working on something that might help you with your instrument rating.
Anything outside the normal flight envelope is also badly simulated with the airlines level D sims.
Granted they handle the stall characteristic, but if you decide to pull crazy stuff like loops and the like, it will not behave realistically as if you had tried the same thing in a real airliner.
@@CMDRSweeper The Level Ds, and even FSX for that matter, simulate a stall accurately enough so a to be able to apply the correct recovery procedure, even in the case where you keep the stall inputs for a long period of time, that's just not true with the default aircraft in XP. I love the platform, I really really do. But I'm not gonna just defend it blindly for no good reason.
I’m retired airline after 33 years in that environment. Soloed in 1967. Flown 75 different aircraft types. Just recently started flying x-plane and found it useful in route and airport familiarization. Really liked it for low weather conditions and instrument approaches into unfamiliar airports. You can even screw up on an instrument departure and fly into the side of a mountain without getting hurt. 😁 Good review by the way. I don’t use the ATC function of x-plane because it’s so unrealistic. If they talked that slow in the New York area, traffic would be flying into each other.
Sounds horrible, great review. Your contributions to the aviation community are valued.
For VR, maybe one day they will invent slip on gloves, this way you can actually use your HAND to touch everything in the cockpit and that will make VR complete IMO.
Wonder if this is on the drawing board or in production somewhere.
Great video! Thanks for the upload.
Valve Index on Google.
Yes several versions in the works
This already exists, without gloves.
I can’t agree with you more, except about the VATSIM controllers, sure there are regions like the Middle East on VATSIM who require little to no training at all to become a controller and probably even more regions, but the UK not sure if it is the same in the rest of Europe VATSIM controllers go through a really long course and it is as close to real world procedures as possible, sure you can’t replicate the real thing, but it has helped me to get rid of my push to talk fear and has made me a lot more fluent when talking to ATC.
Very well said, Mr. Captain. I am a fly sim enthusiast myself and I must say that in my personal experience with other sim enthusiasts is that they truly think of themselves as pilots and are very quick to point out any procedure errors you make. They live in a world of fantasy. While some elements of flight simulation can help you in gaining familiarity with real flying, it’s not even close. They need to get over the fact that they are not pilots!
I know they can. My father is a private pilot and I'm a rec pilot and we've both used it to practice all sorts of procedures when the weather is bad. Both of us have been complimented on our flying and asked how we practice our answer is MS Flight Simulator X
The question was, "Can they teach you to fly?". It wasn't "can they assist in performing certain procedures". Both you and your father were taught to fly by a CFI. I'd be willing to admit I'm wrong if a simmer could, without any assistance from a CFI, solo, do a cross country, and pass a checkride.
A full-blown flight sim has just been added to my wealthy toy list
This is a pretty good overview.
One thing I will add though is that some speculation about Flight Sim 2020 is that it will be done via streaming from a central sever network, and so all of the fight dynamics and physics may well end up being computed remotely with your local client maybe not doing any calculations or rendering at all. Or it may be some sort of hybrid scenario where the server is telling your clinet machine what the advanced physics are while also streaming terrain data but letting your local machine do the graphical rendering and primary physics work.
It's hard to say, but it does seem like it won't be long before everyone will be able to log in to access a flight sim with the same sort of computing power as any of the big professional sims.
Also with things like Hololens (which is also an MS product) there's a real chance that we'll see augmented reality coming to the sim world. Build your 'cockpit' and see your hands using it in real time, but with the graphical overlay of what's missing still shown. That sort of setup will be the real killer combo for flight sim in the 2020's. By 2030 who even knows.
Your mismatched monitor sizes set off my OCD...
I understand the use of a cheap Logitech stick, as they tend to be closer to realistic than more expensive ones... But a yoke controller was the biggest difference in getting closer to realism that I ever made. Even more so than adding extra monitors, or any other peripherals.
A yoke is not particularly realistic in simulating a DA-40... (also, I have one - it came with the throttles. I just don't use it for reasons that will become obvious when you see the DA-40 cockpit :) )
I’ve been flying for 16 years and have worked as a flight instructor. I’ve also always had a love of flight sims on PCs. I can tell you from first hand experience that being in the air in a real aircraft is far different from being safely inside your living room on a computer. I’ve also seen the effect on many of my students who were proficient in flight sim, but have trouble in a real aircraft because of sensory overload. The simulators are good for teaching you what instruments do what and what the controls do, but that’s about as far as they go. They don’t teach you about proper safe procedures, ATC, airspace, weather and so much more. Flying is more than just taking off and landing, real world pilots have to be able to have a mastery of the aircraft and to fly with precision by holding altitudes, speeds, headings etc to tight standards.
jeremyc311709 you should give pilotedge a try. Take a free trial. It’s the most important add on in my sim. Without it I would not use it very often.
Outstanding, Sir! Extremely helpful to me personally, as a real-life Diamond DA20 pilot since 2005, and as a DA20 flight simmer since 2006.Thank you so much!
Hey, so just like my earlier video on flight sims, this one seems to have struck a chord! That's good! I welcome all constructive comments - as you know if you watch the video, I took many suggestions from commenters on that earlier video and incorporated them into this one. All I really ask, though, is that you actually watch the video before commenting on it. That's only polite, and just good TH-cam etiquette. I've seen quite a few comments so far where it's obvious the commenter has not even watched the intro, let alone the whole video, and just a word of warning that those comments will be deleted and/or hidden from public view. Thanks!
"Well, they're in their seat, just not the right one" 😂
Did not expect to see a new video from you today when I was browsing the 'tube. So stoked. Welcome back.
I am a commercial pilot who has also spent a good bit of time messing with simulators. I think you nailed it. I have seen people who used them well and flourished and people who used them poorly and actually were worse off for it. I used them in private training to help me to figure out the sight picture during maneuvers and during instrument training.
Thanks - I'm finishing up my instrument training right now and as I suspected, it's been useful to practice on the sim in this stage, especially when I have to go 7 or 8 days between flights and start forgetting things. I've used the sim to practice unpublished holds, arcs, and even full approaches. Of course ATC doesn't vector you realistically - it just sticks to whatever your flight plan is, and flight plans in X-Plane don't work right either - so I just do it without ATC. I'm still missing that element. But it has helped me remember my instrument procedures.
This is totally accurate. I had about 25 years "experience" in flight sims until I sat behind the yoke of a real C-172 for the first time. Total wake-up call. Yeah, you know what the yoke does, the rudder, throttle, etc. but that's just about it.
Did you get your PPL?
YES. I literally in middle school learned for 1 year to fly on Flight Simulator (90s). Then we moved on to flying, taking off, but not landing single engine planes. They are literally that easy if someone can help you find the non keyboard controlls.
Now rules of air....no.
Considering they use PC Flight Sims to train actual real world pilots now days.... I mean.. It seems like a good chance it can teach anyone to fly. Heck, the planes and instructions in DCS are so detailed and the instruction so specific that it could teach you how to actually start something like an A10 and fly it around.
First. Good video! Great insight for someone with the new Intrest in flying!
Very good job. You incorporated a good many pros and cons in a very objective manner.
Wow! Thank you, sir! That's a very thorough job you've done.
Learning to fly is really a multi task skill. The obvious one is flying the airplane. Which involves learning how to use the different instruments in an airplane and identify what info they are telling you. That is what the flight sims is good for. The other part is seat of the pants flying, learning how the plane feels on the edge of a stall, how to recover from a stall or spin, those are not the same as the flight sim.
The other task is navigation. Unlike driving a car down the road, you have no road in the sky. You can not pull over and stop to think about where you are and which way to go next. The plane is always moving to somewhere next. You have to know where that somewhere you want to go is and direct the airplane in the correct direction to get there without hitting any other aircraft, towers, buildings, trees, power lines, drones. And of course in zero visibility situations you can not slow down either like in a car and creep along looking for the edge of the road. The airplane will fall out of the sky if you go too slow. So navigation is a full time on the fly skill that is required to know where you are and where you are going and what is around you in terms of towers, mountains, other airplanes, etc so you do not hit anything. In good visibility you then have to see and avoid these obstacles while maintaining control of the aircraft and keeping in mind your destination and possible obstacles along your intended flight path. Most of this you can also pick up from a flight sim.
A third task is radio communication with ATC. Again unlike in a car you have to talk to people in an airplane. You get info from radio calls. Like weather along your route, locations of other aircraft near you, sequencing on arrivals to airports, help in extreme situations. So now you have to navigate, fly the airplane, and talk to other people (no text messaging skills apply here) in order to fly an airplane. The radio communication skills do not come from any flight sim I have tried. Some make an attempt at it but they are all scripted text messages and are not really any help to learning this skill at all. Most people I have taught to fly have the most difficulty with this part of flying. The rest they can pick up relatively easy.
Then the more complex and faster the airplanes get the faster and harder it is to think ahead of the aircraft. As a pilot you have to control the plane. The more stuff the plane has the harder it is to do everything fast enough to stay ahead of it. Like for example a fixed landing gear airplane as compared to a retractable gear. On approach a retractable adds to pilot workload as you have to extend the gear to land, which also requires you to check your airspeed to make sure you are slow enough to extend the gear. And then to check after the gear is down to see if the indicators are telling you that the gear is in fact extended and locked down for landing. Sometimes landing gear malfunctions and does not lock in the extended position and can then collapse on you as the weight of the plane settles onto the gear during the landing roll. This is of course bad. But none of that workload applies if you have fixed landing gear aircraft. Most flight sims do not accurately model this complex pilot workload.
But they do give you an idea of more stuff to do in a complex aircraft. Also in flight sims you can slow down time in the simulation to figure out what you need to do in a timely manner to stay ahead of the plane, in a real plane there is no slow down time button.
Well thought out and articulated. Many thanks for putting this together. As a lapsed pilot, it's been something of a burning question for me lately though I've probably reached a very similar set of conclusions. Cheers and thank you from Sydney, Aust - Dave
I can tell you that yes it can. In 2002 I was a student pilot and had FS 2002 and was able to set up an approach to my home airport and do it over and over again using pedals and yoke. I was able to grease landings after that. Sort of. Still took real world practice to get it down right but using the sim knocked off a bunch of time it took.
I got my PPL a few years back. While taking flight lessons I did lots of sim time at home including ATC. It definitely helped me with procedures, navigation, instruments and G1000 operations. Of course, real flying has a different feel to it, and you can't learn to land in heavy crosswind on sim. But it definitely helps a lot!
I started in 2006 with FS in a Cessna 172 on FSX , crast a lot but working up from single engine to two engine to jet flying online on IVAO and VATSIM , now flying PMDG 737.800 and 777 and Aerosoft A320 , it keeps the brain working being 66 years old.
"They're in the seat, just not the right one"
For VR users I highly recommend voiceattack. Its a cheep game saver. I’ve been using it on X-Plane and dcs. Works amazing for comms commands.
Advantages
*Sims especially with VR headsets help you learn procedures and develop a sight picture (develop a mental picture what landings and other manuevers should look like)
*Otho xp helps you practice cross country flights
* IFR Practice is realistic
Cons
* Can't practice radio calls realistically
* VR currently cuts you off from the real world making reading checklist and moving flight controls slightly more difficult. Gauges may be blurry depending on the headset you get and software you use.
* May or may not be able to realistically simulate the physical environment due to...
- Accuracy of flight and ground dynamics (Highly variable)
-Material sim equipment is made out of (plastic reacts different than metal). This is crucial for developing muscle memory
- Your access to motion sims. Equipment like "Yaw VR" sim can help but can be pricey.
Overall: Sims can help you develop learn proper procedures and visuals. Most likely won't help stick and rudder skills.
I enjoyed this video. I think the key is you have to work to fly properly. Many people don't.
WOW! What a great video. Informative and to the point. It sets my mind in a different direction. Flying may require a lot more time to master to where you can enjoy it than I had anticipated. It also shows a good comparison between sim and real life flying. Thanks.
VR makes a huge difference in the level of immersion in flight sims far as being able to see what you're doing with the aircraft. When I first started flying in VR I could actually feel the forces of maneuvers, I guess my brain thought I was actually in an aircraft and filled in the missing pieces of the experience; after about 20 hours that went away, but the immersion is still there. Once you go VR, you can't go back to flat screen though, after VR flat screen is like holding a picture in front of you and pretending you're flying, everything seems very small and far away in flat screen after VR.
It does certainly help :) i am a flight student and enthusiastic simmer :) even our teacher recommended it
Thats true.
All valid points, I would also add that developers have to make sims for consumers, they want you in the air and enjoying the experience so that you keep flying/buy more add ons, also some users may have disabilities or may have seizures so as a result they can't replicate violet shaking or fast movement. I would love to fly a real plane, but can't justify the costs involved or the time to learn, so I sim as it relaxes me, I know it's not real, but that's ok as anything you see on a monitor is also not real.
Enjoyed the vid - lots of good points and ideas - I did a lot of simming in general aviation planes (from the Sublogic days to present) well before training and did my PPL in the minimum amount of time required
Nice video. Good overview for people wondering what translates in the real world and what does not.
I like the BUMP AND GRIND of real airplanes vs the rail like feeling in a home sim...
Sims are great but like the song says...
AIN'T NOTHING LIKE THE REAL THING BABY!!!
😮
Let me start this story by saying that I'm an avid fan of flight simulators. I purchased the original subLOGIC Flight Simulator for my Apple II, newer MS Flight Sim versions (and countless subsequent scenery, airport, and mission packs) and have owned and played several air combat simulators, both PC and game box types.
So, about 20 years ago, I took my kids to a HUGE arcade & video games shop inside a mega shopping mall, somewhere in the Washington DC metropolitan area.
There were the usual POV shoot 'em up games (space, military, cowboy, hunting, outlaws, zombie/mutants), a myriad of fantasy/martial arts fighting games, and, of course, the classics and their derivatives.
But the busiest part of the store was a section devoted to "kinetic" video games.
These were multi-monitor stations mounted on shaking, spinning and rotating mechanical platforms.
There were "full 2-D motion" battle tank, dune buggy, car racing, motocross and jetski games, among many others.
But the two stars of the motion games were an "airline" simulator, and a jet aircraft "dogfight" simulator. (Alas, I don't remember the names of the games, nor the name of the manufacturers.)
Both games had looooong waiting lines, despite taking $5.00 in tokens -- when most other games in the arcade shop were just 25 or 50 cents.
(Five dollars for a video game was a lot of money back then. Shut up and take my money! LOL.)
These two popular games were, in reality, honest-to-goodness complex amateur flight simulators.
In the "airline" simulator, the player climbed into a multi-monitor "pod" that resembled a jumbo airliner cockpit, full of of flight, engine, communication and navigation displays and controls. The scenery in the front jumbo display and two smaller side monitors was amazing, especially considering that this was late 1990's technology. And I clearly remember the constant, and sometimes frantic, ATC "chatter" in the background. But what made this game so cool (in addition to its amazing fidelity as a commercial airline flight simulator) was that the entire pod moved along all three axis of flight. When you did a standing max power takeoff, and you released the breaks, the nose tilted upwards, and you were thrown slightly against your seat. When you made the final turn on your teardrop approach, the pod gently pitched down and rolled right. And, if you made a hard landing, when the landing gear touched the runway, the entire pod shuddered and bounced, in self-critiquing feedback. You not only "played" the simulation, but you also "felt" it.
In the aerial combat simulator (which was the more popular of the two sims), you "strapped in" into a contraption that resembled an inertial navigation gyroscope assembly that violently jerked you in full 270° arcs of roll, pitch and jaw movements. And, when you fired the gattling guns, got hit by a missile, or crashed onto the ground, the entire assembly rumbled and shook like a magnitude 9.0 earthquake. The cockpit was all decked up with a giant video monitor in the front, three smaller monitors underneath (to check your 3, 9 and, especially, your 6 o'clock) as well as military-style HOTAS joystick & throttle, and rudder controls.
Adding the sensory inputs of the inner ear and musculoskeletal kinesthetic orientation, brings flight simulation to a whole new level. It heightens the realism of "flying," by orders of magnitude. It's a real game changer.
(Incidentally, there was also a third kinetic flight simulator game: a "dragon rider." In this game, you mounted the neck of a dragon and, surrounded by half-a-dozen high definition monitors, flew in a fantasy world of fractal mountains and canyons, either just sightseeing and enjoying the amazing scenery, or furiously fighting other dragon riders. Because the dragon did amazing aerobatic maneuvers, the mechanical 3-axis simulator would reward the gamers with vigorous jostling and tossing. But, whereas the dragon sim was a hit mostly among kids and teens, the customers in the airline and dogfighting simulators, were mostly adults.)
Now, dragons notwithstanding, I recount this story because your Flight Simulator set up (with the triple monitors; the dual tablets; the joystick, throttle and rudder controls; and all the other gizmos), reminded me of these two arcade games.
The only things missing in your home simulator are, enclosing your entire setup in a "pod" that resembles a real cockpit, and having motion in all three axis.
As a former US Air Force "heavy" aircraft flight engineer -- and private aviation pilot -- I always dreamed of owning one of these two "simulators."
These arcade games were all, pre 9/11 era when, as we all know, religious zealots flew two planes into the WTC Towers and another one into the Pentagon.
And, shortly thereafter, (for understandable reasons) all these kinetic airline and dogfighting simulators were quietly taken off the video arcade stores.
And I haven't seen similar sophisticated arcade flight simulator games like those ever since.
And now, as I see TH-cam video after video fawning over Microsoft's "Flight Simulator 2020," and when I see your cool Flight Sim setup, I can't help but think: Is there a way to marry a state-of-the-art flight simulator (like MS Flight Simulator 2020); and a 4K or 8K multi-monitor, multi-tablet, joystick-throttle-rudder setup (similar to yours); with an off-the-shelf, commercially available, 3-Axis kinetic platform?
I think if you spend enough time on it, have a genuine interest in flight dynamics and meteorology you can almost certainly get a head start over a student who had never touched a sim. I already knew about most if not all controls for example before my first ever flight training. Unfortunately I could not afford to go much further past a student permit, but I did join a sail plane club and got a few hours flying Sailplanes/Gliders. So i think Sims are great for having fun and learning some stuff.
Hi how do you get the instrument on your iPad?
RE: VR. VR is for sight seeing and experiencing the fun of the landing. It really isn't needed for the take-off or cruise. I should add that it makes taxing much easier. Don't be afraid to pop in and out of VR. I will often turn off the VR once I'm cruising and turn in back on at some point in a decent. For just messing around and sight seeing, I lift the glasses up and look at the charts. In real life we take our focus off of the controls when we look at charts. It' just a tad easier to to back into the cockpit in real life.
Finally, upgrade to the Rift S is you can. The improved resolution is a deal maker. I was able to sell my original one for $250. That means the upgrade only cost me $150.
Excellent perspective (Best I seen) between flt Sim and reality on many levels. I started with Sub-logic in the 80's now running MFSX . When I was younger I thought I would like to get a private pilot licence but I never got to do it even though I enjoy my flight sim's. Thanks for this enlightenment video.
using the Avitab plug in in VR you can have all the checklists and maps and charts you could ever want btw
Very well said, completely agree, especially with the point about all the forces in play, I’ve been saying that for a while now.
I learned a lot about flying from my sims! Good video!
Yes well said about the lack of turbulence modelling. It is rarely said on flightsim forum. I only have 10 hours on a cherokee but I used to add 20 kt variable winds with 60 kt gusts in FSX to try to simulate a pretty typical day around Bankstown Airport YSBK Sydney in a light aircraft. I remember on one flight being unable to maintain wings level, it was rocking 45 degrees a side like a little boat in high seas, and when I asked my instructor what level of turbulence this was (I was thinking High), he told me straight faced that it was a low level of turbulence that day. The only sims to do justice to crosswind landings was Aerofly FS1 and Flight Unlimited 3 from looking glass imo.
By the way FSX does manage to simulate well a real-world view which I will never forget. The view of the city of Sydney high rise CBD and the Pacific Ocean as a backdrop when at 1000 feet just to the North East of Runway 28R (the standard runway for GA training flights in and out of Bankstown for the wind in that direction). Try it - go to 28R YSBK and go to the right downwind leg 1000 ft. The landing pattern is pretty tight with 3 parallel runways. On high AI traffic settings it is interesting. You will be facing the ocean and the city - the real view is 1000x more impressive, but FSX does recreate it somewhat. The ocean can look like tropical Hawaii sometimes. Very beautiful on a clear day. Its a standard view for pilots at YSBK.
As a pilot and avid flight simmer, this is a very fair assessment of PC flight sims as training tools. Once you understand the limitations, there are definite strengths that can be used to supplement training. I found this to be especially true with instrument procedures.
I will say that Pilot Edge, while not perfect, is outstanding for communication skills training. And again the ability to request and fly instrument approaches with a live controller is very close to what I experience in my local area even though it is not part of the PE coverage. But yes, they can sometimes be a bit ... intense.
Great video. I thought you explained very well what one of this home simulators can and can not do for you. Thank you.
I think it's great for practicing procedures. One key is to have a buddy there (another pilot) to act as a pseudo instructor. So you can plan an IFR flight, execute the plan, practicing diversion, and other problems. This works well since it's not stick-and-rudder where the small sim issues mess up the realism. If you plan your flight to Topeka and you end up at the runway in topeka you did it right (well other than wanting to go to topeka for some reason, I guess), so it's really good for those kinds of things. And particularly if you live somewhere where a lot of the year just isn't flyable, then this allows you to practice this stuff without paying for "real" sim time.
The primary method of learning on the ground is chair flying. Going through the routines in a chair with your eyes closed and moving your body and talking out loud as if you were continuously speaking to your instructor or yourself. This is done in the evening, before flights, and after flights as a review. If you can, do it in the actual aircraft on the ground. This, more than any flight simulator, is what would get you through your first 100 hours. Every military instructor pilot tries to convince their students that this is critical for progress. It is so effective that sometimes you can be so much on top of things in the cockpit that you can reflect on what you are doing as you are doing it.
Completely agree. Chair flying in front of a poster can be almost as helpful as doing it in the plane itself.
Great video, and exactly mirrors my feelings. I'm a one-time PPL (had to give it up, sadly) and have just got back into flight simming. I'm amazed at how easy it is to aileron roll or loop a C172 or Grumman AA-5 in X-Plane! When flight simmers talk about realism, they're mostly concerned with how things look, not how they behave. And you're bang on about the lack of sensation in flight sims. That gut-chilling feel of suddenly encountering a touch of negative g as the aircraft stalls out, or the head-spinning sensation of wracking up a steep turn - even these minor sensations have a big impact on your situational awareness, workload and ability to fly the aircraft. In a sim, you can wrap the aircraft around in a knife-edge turn to make that last desperate attempt to make that landing with no consequences at all. You can fly way beyond the limits of the real world and the human mind & body. And, of course, when IFR, you don't have to worry about your body screaming 'you're in a spiral' when the instruments say everything's okay - or vice versa. The procedural stuff is handy for practising, but flight sims are, ultimately, games.
Hey Steve, I want to go for my PPL also. I've been flight simming since about '83 and I believe its about time to grab a yoke and some sky. I was curious though, what made you give it up?
Bad habit I developed: Landing the C172 in X-Plane, the stall horn keeps going even when you are on the ground. So I would push the nose forward right when the mains touched to stop the horn. I found I was doing that unconsciously in real life. My instructor was really getting on my case about it (pull that yoke back in your lap and keep it there!). Took a few circuits to get rid of that habit. Good habit that resulted from a bad habit: Sims make you stare at the instruments too much as was mentioned in the video. I broke that habit by getting trackhat and then 3 monitors forcing myself to look around. When it came to my 3 hours of instrument training, I performed well since I was used to looking at instruments. I also have developed a good mix of instrument attention and external attention (it's easy to fall back into the bad habit though if you don't think about it).
Sim was necessary for me to figure out how taxi (without spending too much rental money). Got myself some pedals and mastered it quickly. It was sort of helpful in learning to keep up with radio frequency changes and pilotage on cross country flights.
On Ground dynamics and Flight Dynamics, you should try DCS: World. They used real-life pilots as subject-matter experts during development of their flight-models, and the DCS engine is known to be even more realistic than XP11.
Yep DCS flight models should be good (for the in house modules at least) but the thing is it's a combat sim focusing in that part and the only civilian planes currently in are the Yak-52 and Christen Eagle II. Now if they made a Cessna or a twin prop or even a B737/A320, it would be a lot easier to compare.
In my very first private pilot training flight, my instructor was surprised at how well I understood flight dynamics. I accredit this mostly from my 10+ years using MS Flight Sims, as well as diligent research into procedures and flight dynamics, as well as personal discipline in usage if checklist, navigation tools, and so on.
I think simulators can be a very effective training tool, but it is up to the user to take training upon themselves instead of assuming random fight sim hours equates experience while flying around in fun places. An open world environment gives opportunity to fly around and do as you please, but if you are goal orientated and have a fascination and respect for aviation, simulator are an invaluable tool.
The process of learning the feel of flying an actual aircraft, and an understanding of airflow dynamic is something that will never be fully replicated in a sim, which is why real life flight training is the cornerstone to developing into a licenced pilot. But I don't think that should take away from the value and engineering into flight simulators as potential tools for training.
Sims are great, and they are engineered to be such within the technical limitations of their times, at the end if the day their usefulness depends on an overall attitude of the user within their perspective relative to the program itself.
I have one for you! Find a CD Rom of ASA IP Trainer. You can get your instrument rating by learning all the procedures except GPS. A true modern classic program that I can’t seem to find anyone who knows of. I think it was the best for learning IFR.
I am not sure what your beef with PilotEdge is, but the one thing, from my experience, that you can learn in X-Plane with PilotEdge is ATC procedures and interactions. I found it to be very realistic environment when interacting with the controllers, especially when attempting to complete one of their Ratings (CATs, or I-ratings). You really have to know your stuff and be on your toes to get thru those. Is it perfect? Nothing is perfect, but I have not found the Controllers to expect me to be a "Pro", but they do expect me to be prepared. They have been often very helpful in their critiques of my procedures when I did not do it correctly. On those occasions, the controllers' that I have heard a controller "yell" (your characterization not mine) at someone, was due to their being very upset with a pilot that didn't have a clue about what he/she was doing! I am surprised that your "real life" controllers (of which most of them are) would not only do the same thing but write you up for it also, especially if you don't know what you are doing ! Once, while in flight training for my PPL, I had two "real life" controllers arguing about where I should land, while I was on my 2nd Cross-country. Not a fun experience in my real-life flying! Much of your video has accurate information, but I find the section on PilotEdge wanting. I find PilotEdge to be a very good learning experience, albeit challenging, which I have far from mastered. Good luck with your flying.
My "beef" with PilotEdge is detailed in the video. And no, real life controllers do not "write up" pilots unless they deviate from instructions. They don't get mad or become rude over non-standard comm phraseology or even improper readbacks, and there is certainly nothing to write up in those cases.
I can Add a certain perspective here I used consumer flight Sims along time Yes they can’t hold a candle to the actual event .. Recently had the opportunity to fly a real Plane The differences were surprising not what I Expecting. I was amazed How much control I had And how responsive inputs were (Probably years of struggling with low frame rates trying to fly). Struggled a little Steering aircraft with rudder-pedals on The ground. I always thought the hardest thing Would be the rudder in flight ...Surprisingly it was very intuitive (Flight simulators offer zero rudder feedback) also Once you throttle down there’s only one place the plane is going ...”down” Takes a lot of effort to pull back on yoke..... in Simulator you seem to float a lot . But I Got to fly over my house I would highly suggest it to any Sim Pilot It only cost me 300 bucks you will never forget The experience
Hi Jason - I have to say this is an exceptionally well-done video. Most pilots await a truly high-resolution sim that could help us maintain proficiency in all facets of flying. Technology that most of us can afford just isnt there yet. Perhaps someday...
Thanks for your comprehensive discussion!
Your comments are well thought out and presented. I was glad to see your emphasis on procedures. You can learn a lot in a sim but some people develop some very bad habits. Most guys I know who play with sims fire up the engine, takeoff (sometimes on a taxiway) and find the nearest bridge to fly under. That's fine if you never plan on touching a real airplane but terrible if you do. The cockpit makes a poor teaching platform; study and prepare to make the most out of every hour of flight instruction. A minor correction about f/o's taxiing- most airliners aren't equipped with a nosewheel tiller on the right side. Happy landings
LOL at the ATC talking to United 2004 about a passenger needing to take a dump right before takeoff!
"Oh, they're in their seat, just not the right one!" :D
LOL I know a retired airline pilot who also has flown several other types of plains. He said to me that he had to learn to fly all over again, when he started "flying" FSX. He even told me that after using that for some years, he would be mostly dangerous as a pilot, because he had learned new reflexes and ways to steer, that would get anyone fired in a real plain. :-)
It seems like the MS flight simulator 2020 team was listening close to what you are saying. 😊
Hopefully! I am looking forward to FS2020. But I am skeptical too. It's a day 1 purchase for sure, though.
Definitely it can, but it will help very much if the required gauges are in right locations , thanks for sharing 😊👍👍
Good video, I've been In and around general aviation most of my life and your video is accurate and is realistic about the PC vs real life...
just a note to everyone on engine fire you turn off the cabin heat so the firewall can work and stop a fire in the cockpit
Have them use the controllers. I think it is more realistic having to reach for the throttle and switches than having it otherwise personally. Ditch the yoke. That interaction with the aircraft is key......
Really appreciate this video, very in depth and the message is conveyed well!