Who (ethically) owns recipes? Am I stealing them?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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My old video on the legal aspects of recipe ownership: • Why it's so hard to ow...
Virtual event hosted by the U.S. Copyright Office in December 2021 where I spoke and took questions: • U.S. Copyright Office ...
2020 Los Angeles Times column discussing the Sqirl cookbook controversy: www.latimes.co...
2019 Eater article on Cynthia Wong's conflict with her old restaurant over rights to sell her signature fried chicken-shaped ice cream: www.eater.com/...
Chef Wong's new business where you can order those ice cream treats online: www.liferafttr...
Eater's 2017 investigative report on Mario Batali: ny.eater.com/2...
"A Guide to Modern Cookery" (translated from French), Georges Auguste Escoffier, 1907: www.google.com...
Ironically when a dish becomes a national or regional tradition it's because everyone in the area copied the original creator so many times that no one knows who the hell made it originally.
Well, yes, but actually I would call this a traditional Hungarian cake, even though we know the original creator: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobos_torte
Not usually no.
The people of a country typically make their "national dish" about as many ways as there are people that cook it.
And some of those recipes are simply practices that are literally older than modern humans being codified.
Thing is there's usually never an "original creator". Everything is a remix. In the culinary arts we accept that. Even if a novel, signature dish is attributed to a single person everybody knows that is derived from what came before.
@@lordgarion514 Just because everyone has their take on something doesn't mean someone didn't come up with the idea originally. Every airplane company has a take on how to make a airplane, but we can clearly trace back to a handful of people who came up with the idea.
As with any invention once the knowledge is out there people tweak and adjust it.
I feel that this is an extended attempt to entice Chef John into a collaboration video with you.
I mean, that'd be my food wish.
Nice
And a pinch of cayenne…
I mean you are after all the Dr. Seussia of your collab with Ragusea!
I mean you are after all, the reason for which part of the dish you season.
I don't think Adam does collabs with other youtubers.
In the culinary world, everyone steals from everyone, period.
I wouldn’t call it stealing I’d call it inspiration tbh cooking is creative if you think about it
and in every time we create something, we are the ghosts of the past
Same thing with music
what if your recipe uses a man-made element on the periodic table of elements?
@@tylerrose4416 Ha, I almost said "sampling," but that's not completely legal.
I misread the title as "Who (ethnically) owns recipes" and thought Adam was going to talk about food gatekeeping culture. (i.e. Italians against "alternative" pizzas and pastas (NY Style, Filipino spaghetti), Mexicans against Tex-Mex food, etc.)
That would make a very interesting video, though.
Italians really are the strongest responders to what is "wrong" with food. Just because no one orders a cappuccino after 11am in Italy, doesn't mean that it's the right call. So many rules.
@@SlavicCelery I just had an oat juice cappuccino at 2100 and probably caused some ones head in Italy to explode for the sheer audacity of it :)=
That's a good question since a lot of food is "fusion" because of the movement of people, either by force or by economic choice. Mexican food is a major example of this because even foods that have become national dishes are results of colonization.
@@SlavicCelery Italians have "their" food adopted or corporatized by every ethnicity on the planet and don't complain at all about it - or at least, they won't racialize that adoption. If an Italian opened up a Mexican or Arabic food place, they'd never hear the end of it.
I misread it as well, and was thinking of cases where people complain about "misappropriation" of ethnic foods. 🙄
Its your serious journalistic integrity, your consistency in making sure to questions like the ones in this video, that keeps me coming back to your channel.
I only return to find out what to season instead of my steak.
@@jdavis37378 man. this was squarespace. chill out. also you are absolutely wrong but whatever.
You've fallen hard, likewise though ☺️
Yeah some of the sponsors he's done have very very seriously reduced the respect I have for him. The vitamins especially, such awful and uncritical blind support for what's ultimately lies
@@Thecilveks so can you point out any "unjust" sponsorships? please do come back when you have a half decent answer.
It's interesting to realize that Adam's description of how he researches and iterates on recipes kinda matches what I do at home when I'm trying something new.
I own all of the recipes.
Damn, I guess you defeated copyright
This the culinary lore guardian
We have no way to dispute this
Damn.
You mean we?
It’s refreshing to see a TH-camr who cares about the ethics of what they do, and puts actual thought into it
The one question I have is this then. What do you do if you happen to come up with something on a convergent thought process but didn't do your appropriate research to confirm no one else did it? Also, saying before I continue, just asking and don't want it coming off as interrogative towards you. Just figured I'd message here rather than plain comments cause at least one person might respond. Moving on... Of course, everyone is going to call your bluff that you plagiarized or stole, which is a fair enough assumption, plenty have profited from doing that, so it's natural to suspect. I guess this would imply that appropriate research need be done in advance to stave off the chance of any such instances occurring. Of course, only the poster knows if they're being honest in saying they didn't get it from anyone. So I guess what then is there to do on emergence of similar ideas created by people never having crossed paths in a mental sharing sort of way (no exchange I guess I mean)? Idk, question I have had before. More so goes to writing stories that I'm asking this but this is about as valid in any other realm that deals with intellectual creations. If you read this and respond, thank you in advance.
Something I appreciate about Adam is that he brings in important academic considerations/questions to a lay public through the use of food and food vlogging. I could get a recipe for a dish from so many different sources but what I have grown to appreciate more and more from Adam is that he also brings in important thought provoking questions and ideas. As someone trained in the social sciences, I think this is an important step in curtailing the escalation of anti intellectualism that has become more and more pervasive. Something else I appreciate, he doesn't talk down to his audience.
Couldnt agree more 🙂
Also his recipe videos include WHY and aren't just commands. I've learned so much about cooking just from things he mentions in passing during a recipe.
He is a great teacher.
It's a nice first world problem worrying about the origins food preparation. Let's pray that we remain a first world nation being able to afford such luxuries.
I honestly used to think he was some food scientist when I first saw a few of his videos. But it appears with a journalism background you need to do the same attribution as we do with our research papers.
All recipes can be traced back to someone's grandmother, so she gets all the credit.
I also just told my mom about the concept of the video, and she said the same thing: a grandma, of course!!
Honest to goodness, yeah. That's the truth. Lol.
"Great artists steal, or whatever." - Me (after ripping off some guy)
"I am a great art thief." -- James K (paraphrased from memory)
"Great artists steal, or whatever." - Me (after ripping off some guy)
@@unarmedduck "Great artists steal, or whatever." - Me (after ripping off some guy)
@@unarmedduck That's an amazing quote you came up with there.
@@jakimoretti7771 "Great artists steal, or whatever." - Me ('copy and paste'ing somthing im pretending i leaned but will not remember tomorrow)
Hey Adam, as a fellow journalist, I wanted to say that one one of the things that first drew me to your channel was that I found out you had a journalism background. I don't work as a journalist anymore, but one of the defining skills of journalists is their record keeping and ethics. Keep up the great work, I'm happy to see that you've continued to use your journalism background to make the world a better place, even if it's not strictly "journalism."
@@diasahgasparias5991 Depends on who or what organization the Journalist is prepared to work for, also a lot of the worst journalists are all about entertainment, while pretending to be journalists, and then calling themselves entertainers when they get sued. There are a lot of excellent journists out there. Some of whom literally put their life on the line. Others not so much.
Your channel goes way beyond just cooking for me thanks to the amount of work and research you put into every video
I love introspective videos like these. Such a complex question and a fascinating exploration of possible answers. Thank you Adam.
I’m a bread maker and look up several recipes to make one. I get the idea, ingredients I want to use, and make my own recipe up. It’s now my recipe. If you take an exact recipe, share it to make profits from it, that’s different. So as long as you change a recipe that’s posted on the Internet, it’s not proprietary. I don’t share recipes from a bread book, by screen shot. I tell where they can find it.
I love the wide variety of videos you make. Not only do I learn new recipes, but also the science behind it. And then I also get to learn thing about ethics and philosophy and some random, but interesting topics. Thank you so much for this 💕
On your office scenario, I had done just that. Made rainbow cookies and brought them into work. Someone asked for the recipe and I told them that I would need a day to write down everything. So I printed the original recipe and then wrote up all the adjustments I had made to that original recipe separate and handed them both to them. And I explained that this is what mine is based on, here is everything I have changed to make it into what you just consumed. And I didn't change a ton but it was enough to make a significant difference in what everyone just experienced. But all my bases are covered, can't use one without the other and full credit is still given to the author.
This reminds me of what a history professor explained to me about citations. I had cited practically every line of an essay because I was so afraid of getting knocked for plagiarism. He explained to me that “if a majority of the populous knows or should know it, you don’t have to cite it. However, if it’s something more specific, cite that stuff.”
Thank you for exploring the ethical quandaries of citing our sources via the internet, the importance of acknowledging the source creator in your works and also, thank you for the shout out to our beloved Anthony Bourdain. May he Rest In Peace 🕯
@Clara yikes...
I love the candle :)
An interesting topic I've never considered before! I'm loving these new topics you're branching off to, Adam, they kinda remind me of the lessons I get from Ann Reardon/HowtoCookThat 🥰
I genuinely appreciate how Wes from high falutin low carb handles it when demonstrating someone else's recipe. Credit where the recipe comes from and direct people to the creator's website if they want measurements.
a story you might be interested in is Paseo in Seattle. A family owned restaurant went bankrupt and was bought by an investor. The recipes were not included in the transaction, so former employees recreated the recipe from memory. The two sons of the former owners started a new restaurant Un Bien with the original recipe 3 miles away. Trying both places it's easy to see how similar they are and it is a complicated ethical issue.
How can a recipe for a food item in a restaurant be property of that restaurant? It isn't like this legally, right?
I find it all kinda stupid... but as they say "play stupid games, win stupid prizes",
Firstly, your hair is amazing.
Second, the only time I had ever "owned" a recipe is working for hotels etc. But that basically came down to working on recipes during company time for the new menus. The recipes, per contract, were "owned" by the hotel. I didn't mean you couldn't recreate it...
Great video. I really enjoy insights into your processes and struggles. That's part of what makes your content so special.
I really love these videos. Wasn't expecting to question ethics from my favourite cooking youtuber!
Fun fact - Sqirl in Los Angeles had a controversy where the owner was telling employees to scrape the mold off of their jam preserves before serving it to customers. So yet another sketchy undertaking by this business.
While I believe you are correct and there was a controversy, I don't believe that happened. Preserves are notoriously mold free. Thus the name.
@@kenmore01 even jams and preserves can get moldy once the jar has been opened
@@kenmore01 Most foods called preserves aren't really preserves. They're basically cheap knock offs of preserves meant to taste better but spoil much quicker.
That wasn’t a fun fact :(
@@kenmore01 You clearly haven't had much jam my guy xd.
It could literally cristalize from the sugar content and still spoil given the right conditions.
I'm reminded of ideas explored in Kirby Ferguson's "Everything is a Remix" series: creativity is far more derivative and borrowed than we think it is ... and that's fine. That's how culture works. To pinpoint when a novel idea came along is kind of a fool's errand.
I agree that recipe development is similar to scientific research, and think it would be great for you to include more references/citations in the video descriptions. It could be as simple as copying and pasting a link for each recipe you find in your initial search into a blank document, then you can just paste those in the description. It might not be used by everyone, but I'm sure some (like me) would love the opportunity to scan the references and decide for ourselves which techniques/ingredients are most suitable to our tastes. You're in a great position to start changing acknowledgment practices on 'cooking youtube' because you're a professed home cook without restaurant experience; you don't have as many ingrained practices stemming from training under a chef, therefore you can more easily provide a reference to the website/book you used.
Something you might find useful in this kind of ethical dilemma is the concept of authorship guidelines used in many fields of science. Every field has its own variations but essentially they take into account every step of the scientific process and who contributed to them. Typically someone has to contribute in more than one area to be considered a coauthor on the final manuscript. If not, their names are often just placed in an 'acknowledgments' section to give them some credit.
When I saw the thumbnail I mistook adam's pen for a knife and thought he was just approaching to steal my recipes
"Your recipes or your life"
I had a notebook full of my in-progress recipes stolen by my former employer after they promised to pay me a commission on my recipes. They never paid me the commission on even the consensually-produced recipe that was actually finished, but they went "see it's totally different" while changing one inconsequential thing from my in-progress recipe I had not shared with them.
Since nobody can really prove that nobody has ever combined ingredients and cooking steps in the exact same way in the past, I don’t think someone can “own” a recipe like rights to songs or other intellectual property. That’s why famous recipes like Classic Coke, and Kentucky Fried Chicken are kept secret. So you are not really stealing a recipe but courtesy would dictate that you give credit to where you got it unless you actually invented it.
The legal standard is just codified ethics so its good to pay attention to this even if you just want to know the legal standards. Professionally I managed to get myself into the ethics of AI which naturally leads to which ones of those are going to be legal standards like GDPR or laws California or New York are considering and I even talk to my company about it in presentations and bring up why those laws may be good.
I mean you'd think it's kinda moronic to copyright human culture but here we are... Good thing fire was invented a loooong time ago, before rules at best inspired by ethics governed all
This is why I love your videos. At one moment intellectual and deep into a complex issue, and then the next just food shots. Love it.
I really like the questions/challenges you bring about the ownership of ideas. Is it ethical to claim ownership of something a team of workers you hired developed? Beyond that, what gave you the idea to attempt development?
A lot of good questions to ask, especially in the context of food - something in proximity of everyone.
Now that's a cool philosophical rabbit hole!
Hope more people go down it :D
You can't "own" ideas. They're infinitely replicable and cannot be stolen, because the copying of such doesn't deprive the person you copied from of anything.
As a software engineer I believe in the spirit of open source very deeply and wish every piece of code was licensed that way. Recipes should be the same imo. Anyone should be able to use them freely and change them and contribute to them as they please to advance the creative process. I would even apply this principle to music. It would be much better if people could sample whoever they wanted and add their own creative twists to music without worrying about copyright. The idea of intellectual property was solely created so big corporations could profit off of other people's work. Most of the time artists don't even own the right to their songs, the studio does. And most copyright claims are made by big companies like Warner Media or Disney. That has nothing to do with protecting artists and everything to do with the profits of these greedy companies.
GNU/Recipes 😁 sounds like what Richard Stallman would think about recipes. That, or he'd hate all chefs for some weird reason.
My rule of thumb is that I'll credit someone if I find a recipe/technique that I find particularly novel. Otherwise, _all_ recipes are a result of countless generations of aunties and uncles tinkering with amounts and techniques to achieve their desired effects. One example I take is my own recipe for roast duck. It's a combination of a huge amount of techniques and recipes from all over, and there's so many ways to roast a duck that there's no single right or authentic way, just as long as you don't burn it or undercook it, It'll probably be great. I don't call my recipe my own because it's nothing special, but in a way it kinda is; I just don't care.
This channel has answers to questions I didn't know I had.
My Family owns a small restaurant and for decades we had a woman from our family baking a cake for us until she retired from it and we had to buy it from a bakery.
Soon we noticed the cake was exactly the same. We did some research and about 4 generations back we are related and it was the same old family recipe.
When I'm asked "where did you get the recipe for x" I just say I learned it from TH-cam or the internet and leave it at that since half the time I don't even know who I learned it from, and what I make is usually really simple and common.
asking the real questions. and giving your version of the answer as well. Thanks Adam!
I love love that you don't put music behind your videos!! ♥️♥️♥️
Making the development references publicly available is good.
Echoing first sources claims effects public opinion in association with the creditability of the repeater with little possibility of retraction.
I'm an advocate of zero intellectual property for creative freedom.
We should put funds where we want to see more development.
My children were conceived to the soothing background noise that is chef John. No regrets.
Glenn (and friends) has a 'old cookbook' segment with cookbooks dating as far back as the 1600s. He often points out that the simpler the ingredient and method the closer it is to the origin. That setment shows how we use similar one today. Some things like the Roman recipes for 'stuffed door mice' have fallen in to disuse for some reason.
TH-cam cooking videos, just like on television, are first and foremost entertainment. The vast majority will never actually make the recipe and many people, such as college students, don't even have a kitchen. Many of us watched Chef John's Demi-Glace video and still watched your video, despite knowing it was an identical recipe. The fact that the creator essentially endorses the recipe as "good" is what drives traffic. Stealing recipes is much more meaningful in the context of a restaurant. For example a Portland Burrito shop flaunted their theft of recipes/techniques from other restaurants and was forced to shutdown after an outcry. The quality of food in a traditional restaurant significantly impacts its business. If you want to sell the novel recipe/technique then you should be the person who developed it or have permission from the creator. People deserve credit for their innovations if it is clear they did it.
i think the main key is if the chef have sigh some exclusivity contract with her old employer... if she didnt sign a contract that basically says "any dishes you invented while working here, cant be cook outside", then her old employer have no ground to sue her for the rights since recipes cant be copyrighted or patented unless there is some major industry process involve while making it, especially if she decide to kept that recipes in her own head like many chef tend to do...
It was Shmuzzels that brought me here, and content like this that keeps me here. You're my Chef John.
The way i see it you had an "obligation" to pay Brenda not only for her recipe but also because she made the recipe on cam. It's just good business to pay someone you filmed working.
Yeah, I thought that, too. Citing another cook in this case and using the name of the recipe added value to the video itself in terms of authenticity and storytelling. Ragusea could just as easily made substitutions and alterations while still owing the source of the recipe as part of the video production process
Agreed; it wasn’t primarily for the recipe that she deserves compensation, but for her work directly for the video, both as they were preparing to film and in front of the camera.
The "I got this from this person..." solution is reminiscent of folk music; generally if you look in the album liner notes of an artist performing traditional material, the first thing that's listed is where they first heard it or who they learned it from. There might be further discussion of the song's history and speculation of its origins, but the original author is rarely known, so credit is given to whoever passed it on. Given that so much culinary knowledge is also folk tradition, it seems like a fitting approach.
Congrats for 1.8 Million Subscribers Adam.
Your thought processes are helping me to understand good practice when developing my own content which is totally unrelated to food but nonetheless involves many of the same research-like processes. The internet is both fantastic and frustrating. Far too many content developers are satisfied by simply repeating what they heard from others instead of investigating more deeply to be sure they aren't repeating incorrecthoods or outright falsehoods.
This was the video I needed to see! I struggle with this on the daily when thinking of who to credit. Thanks a lot Adam
haven't watched the video yet, but just from the title, I'm going to say that making a meal is like playing a song. If you're just doing it in your own home, with your own tools, or for friends and family, etc, then fine. But if you start making money because of a recipe/song someone else gave you, morally you should at least cut them in. But the laws are going to be different wherever you go. So, since you qualify 'ethically' in your title, I would say the person/entity who actually write the recipes should get some form of credit or compensation. Just my opinion, I could be wrong! Now to watch the video! LOL! Cheers!
This has been an ongoing thing in my household.
My great great great grandfather invented bread.
The lawyers say "there's just no dough in it".
To which we replied "this is no laughing matter! you tinpot lawyer!!!"
I love philosophy! This video is so interesting on many levels and i like the fact you do those videos more often now. When i watched your videos for the first time it wasn’t the recipe that made me like and subscribe; It was your way of talking and how you put it together. Imo those educational semi-philosophical videos are your thing and not cooking. The cooking is only one method that you expressed yourself in and “applied your perspective upon” (I couldn’t find a better way to phrase it). So what i mean to say here is keep at it Adam.
Interesting and sometimes thorny topic.
When I make one of your recipes I do give you credit and tell people to check out your other recipe videos. I do make sever of your creations on a regular basis. Just tried the New York style pizza dough. May have become my new pizza dough. Probable added more flour than you did but it was very easy to handle and cooked up great in my brick oven.
wasn't expecting the union ave books tshirt!! i live in knoxville and i always have so much fun browsing their books and puzzles.
I'm here before getting my youtube notification.
Wow you either you have a knack for explaining things. Orrr you worked your ass off to understand enough to simplify it enough. Great work!
Just as you do Adam, I usually find 3-4 variations of a recipe and then create my composite recipe from the parts I liked the best.
Here I am, commenting while Adam does the Squarespace ad. I want to make sure his sponsor is happy with the watch time.
I love it when TH-camrs share links to other TH-camrs because that’s how I find new channels where I can learn more. I will need to check out Chef John’s channel now.
I very much like the final conclusion you made. I do appreciate those who educate and spread useful information like you. I suppose the best thing for everyone is to do their best citing their sources down one or two levels
I think that the ethical needs of humans to be able to cook food supersedes the ethical needs for people to own recipes. I think that the epistemological ethics are useful for food historians to trace the evolution of recipes, and courtesy attributions are useful to not only historians, but also other cooks to look back at how your recipe was developed in the further development of their own recipes.
I default to the Wil Wheaton guiding principle, Don't be a Dick.
This is one of the best videos I've seen. There is a nice separation between the domain of food, ethics, and attribution. Diving into the epistemological part of the problem was something that's not often considered. Shame on me for rolling my eyes when you said the U.S. Copyright Office invited you for a talk. Your foundation in critical thinking and presentation skills are inspiring.
Thank you, Adam, for this very informational video. Natalia Lima referenced this video and I so appreciate all the insight.
Unless it's a particularly strange recipe or a particularly unique finished dish, I don't see how anyone can own a recipe. IE: "for my chocolate chip cookies I use curry, celery seeds, and a pinch of MSG." Or "this is my recipe for my famous raspberry lizard crepes". You'd be able to track those owners down.
Almost every dish has already been made in countless millions of ways, and nobody can morally own them (except see above). Short of finding copy/pasted recipes and instructions that you wrote somewhere else, I don't see how you can claim it as yours, and then only your writing is covered. If you ask me what I put into dishes I make regularly, something changes each time. Can I copyright each iteration? Can I own the way I make pot roast? Only if I do something very strange (and probably unpalatable) with it. "Take a quarter cup of garden dirt, preferably with bugs..."
P.S. Doesn't Emmy Cho get most of her recipes elsewhere? She doesn't deserve credit for those. If you want to be nice, you could say "watch her channel". The 'dick move' is lying about it at all.
What a wonderful discussion of ethics. I hope it's taken away that doesn't only apply to journalism and recipes. Nothing helps you sleep better than doing the right thing.
I'm really surprised you didn't mention your musical background when talking about this. The whole sharing of ideas, copying from one another, etc, is a *HUGE* in the music scene in terms of what legally constitutes a cover, adaptation, re-recording (when it comes to multiple songwriters who have since split apart), and any number of different legal questions.
this asked harder questions than I was ready to ponder.
Adam, you are truly such a damn good journalist. Perspicacious, discerning, erudite. So happy you found your medium and outlet, and that I get to know you through your work.
Nuanced and consistent. Love your vids on opinion pieces as always!
Free journalism lecture for the public! Thank you!!!
Many, many years ago, The Washington Post plagiarized an obituary from the website I started and published … it is now owned and run by others. This was a devastating blow to me as this was The Washington Post made famous by Woodward and Bernstein for Telling the Truth. I annoyed the hell out of them until they gave the site attribution. That was cut and dried, but this whole recipe thing gets dicier, because it is now tied up with cultural appropriation. I suspect it is generational-apparently, I am too old to understand because I disagree with much of the prevailing wisdom. I think much of it depends on how long the person has been cooking … and whether professionally. If you started working in restaurants 20 years ago and have been bouncing the food world since then, it can be hard to know if something you started adjusting, adapting and cooking 10 years must be attributed. At some point it’s generic, either for you or for the world. Why are we erasing the melting pot? In a similar vein, we tried to buy a dining room table for our new house (we keep downsizing) , only to discover that most of the country now operates under the Internet version of the 1800s Sears catalog, where you are supposed to drop a considerable sum of cash on something you can’t see in person, or sit at. Anyway, that is my rant for the day. Both of these are related in my brain. Great video with plenty to think about, even for my pandemic brain.
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation - most especially in food. If I want to cook a stir fry, I will. Are the white guys that started PF Changs in conjunction with an Asian guy guilty of cultural appropriation? No. Because cultural appropriation isn't real. If the food had been lousy at PF Changs or Pei Wei - the restaurants would have shut down.
Come for the cooking, stay for the journalism, ethics, geopolitics, epistemology, copyright…
I'm more of a modern opinion guy when it comes to recipes.
Cultures birth recipes, so a traditional pizza is Italian or a traditional nigiri is Japanese. But when immigrants bring a food to a country and it evolves into something different, I see that as the food of the current country. So while traditional pizza is Italian, you can still have American pizza which is like a category in itself, with origins from italian pizza but birthed in American culture.
In Australia. You get kebab shops which can be from many middle eastern cultures or Turkish. But we have a thing that was created here called the Halal Snack Pack, which is a box with chips, cheese and kebab meat stacked with a criss cross tartan looking pattern of 3 different sauces, bbq, sweet chilli and garlic aioli. A HSP only comes from a middle eastern or Turkish kebab shop but it's also an Australian food.
A friend of mine wrote a fantastic book on copyright called "copy this book", highly recommend
My ideology behind giving credit is to give it to whom I found it from. Doesn't have to necessarily be the original, just the person or piece of media I personally found it from. Simplifies the whole metal process enough and I know I've done enough from my own end.
I love your thought process here though, lots of empathy, makes you think haha
Food and Philosophy! 2 of my favourite things on planet earth. Great video Adam 🙂
Pretty nice social system of yours to cope with almost all cases of giving fair credit to our consulted sources. We accept our human limits aaaaand with responsibility.
This is a great foundation, adaptable with tweaks here and there that could derive from special cases and/or social changes.
Here it is: a novelty that I’ll credit to you due, with substantial information that I was looking in one source, so, I reached this kind of information without looking for zillions of point of views. And the icing of the cake? Journalism too!
👏
Thanks 🙏
I truely love those videos where Adam sneakily, through food, educates viewers about all kinds of topics, yay learning :D
This reminds me of the Facebook fight between two old ladies over a stolen casserole recipe. "Shut yur thin lipped mouth, Brenda" or something like that.
One thing Adam didn’t really do is acknowledge that once someone puts a recipe out in the public domain for all to see, they do so under their own volition with no expectation for acknowledgement or financial compensation. In some cases, they’re putting it out their for benevolent purposes, but they might also be doing it to sell books (such as cookbooks), draw site traffic, or in Adam’s case, video views/likes/subscriptions. If someone doesn’t want their trade secret to benefit others, they do want Coke, KFC, and your grandma do and keep it to their selves.
Hello Adam I couldn't find where to send in ideas for the channel. Can you please make a dishwasher salmon video?
I'm against patents and copyrights, I think they ultimately discourage creativity and the building upon shoulders of giants. Don't get me wrong, we are a nation of laws, and I don't encourage people to break the law even though I feel such laws are wrong (unless it is a law of such an extreme as slavery was once a law in this country.) Patents and copyrights often become monopolized by large companies and leads to the gaps between the wealthy and the poor and discourages economic mobility. I also feel patents and copyrights discourage true free speech and expression.
As someone considering a patent, patenting gives someone a time period to manufacture a product before larger companies get their hands on it.
oh great, another extreme opinion that makes no attempt to find a middle ground that is actually productive between separate viewpoints. without copyright bestbuy or whatever giant company would annihilate small businesses.
@@randomassortmentofthings It's not just the patents they buy from others, it's the patents that they create as well. Patents on GMOs is good example of how companies like Monsanto have run small farms in poorer countries into bankruptcy as they often can't afford the GMO seed that they have to buy from the company that patented it and can't compete with the large yields and bug and disease resistance that those GMOs can produce.
@@SolonarTM You assume middle ground must be something that should be found. I don't see Monsanto finding middle ground with poorer farmers whose markets are flooded with GMOs that Monsanto has patents too, and even if they did it would still be a ground that Monsanto created, meaning the middle ground is still in Monsanto's favor and still a disadvantage to the poorer farmers.
@@markadams7046 they spent the time and money to produce those GMO's. If there is no way for them to make money from patenting, all scientific research toward them would move at a snail's pace because there is no profit in it. Similarly, those GMO's would not exist without Monsanto.
I was thinking about something similar a while ago, about how older people get really defensive about their signature recipes. The old Trope of them getting angry at people who copy it. I honestly believe this was from their parents and grand parents(and way waaay further back.. Back then, when women were closer to property, in the rural areas, knowing a couple of really superb recipes could get you more easily married off to a good family. That is what the family recipes were about, mothers arming their daughters to help find the best husband they could.
No, there's nothing ethically wrong with me copying your recipe and cooking food you "created", and it's *INSANE* to suggest otherwise. That's because the value isn't in the recipe, it's in the execution. Anyone can put Oysters and Pearls on their menu, but when you get it at The French Laundry, you're getting it executed sublimely, with only the highest-quality ingredients.
The fact is, we've spent an enormous amount of time and human energy erecting and defending artificial barriers to competition and innovation by dint of intellectual property laws, when we as a society would be far, far better off accepting the ephemeral nature of invention, and focusing on executing a better version of said invention. That's why the United States has 1.33 million lawyers, and only 15,844 professional musicians.
The "SES" argument regarding attribution is *asinine*, in addition to being just untrue. Sure, Escoffier was a well-paid rich-person, but he wasn't *BORN* a rich person. He worked as a cook in a restaurant from the age of 12, after his parents took him out of school where he had shown talent as an artist. He was hired as an apprentice roast-cook at the Hôtel Bellevue in Nice. He then was drafted into the Army, where he served for seven years. When he was discharged from the army, he opened his own restaurant in Cannes. He was just a fortunate and talented Chef who made good. Would a poor black kid living in Georgia had gotten the opportunities he had? No, of course not. But that doesn't mean that hundreds, nay thousands of other cooks and chefs couldn't have had the same opportunities he did.
The problem with misattributing the accomplishments of people to "some other guy" is that you don't know any better than Escoffier's contemporaries who invented the many things he created, and likely know far, far less. By presuming that he is not the originator, you are even *more* likely to be distorting history than by assuming that the people who were there to begin with, and told the story firsthand, had the right of it. For no better reason, I might add, than to tell a politically comforting fairy-tale. There were newspapers back in the 1880's, and if Auguste were cribbing the ideas of one of his sous-chefs, then I see no reason why his embittered employees wouldn't have made news of it. After all, Escoffier was caught embezzling from his hotel, and that was certainly scandalous enough for the time. There is no reason to assume that a scandal about him stealing other people's work wouldn't have made print.
Ultimately, we have to get out of the business of attribution, and get back to the business of creation. Stop trying to litigate or correct history, and just focus on making better food. Your tongue doesn't care who wrote the recipe anyway, it only notices how well it was executed.
I am a chef and I personally have zero problem giving away recipes.
I believe that cooking a dish is just like, a piano player playing a concerto by an old composer.
Many people can play the same song, the same notes, same temperament, same instrument, but each one of those people will have a unique sound, based off of the feel and personal touch they put into their performance of the piece.
Just like, I could use a recipe I find on Adam's channel and serve it to my house guests or my clients, but it will almost certainly not be exactly the same as Adam's recipe, even if I use the same techniques and measurement, my personality will show in the dish, and inevitably the more I make a recipe I didn't create personally the more I change it to match either my preferences or the people I am serving.
So if someone asks me how I make a sauce they really like that I serve them, I hand them the recipe and I hope that not only they make it, but that they share the recipe and many other people make it.
I loved this video! great combo of your food and journalistic knowledge
It's interesting to think about the line between art and research in cooking. Very interesting video! I've thought about this so much.
I can say that you tipped me off to Chef John, and I have definitely watched a TON of Chef John since then!
It's stuff like this that always brings me back to your channel. I don't care that much about cooking channels, but I love what an incredibly thoughtful, humble, and intelligent communicator you are. The hard science and factual research you put in almost makes me want to cry sometimes. I wish more people could be like this.
I just told someone this morning I learned how to make a proper cheese sauce from Adam Ragusea in you tube. Thanks for that again.
I love how convoluted this is, I would be interested in seeing you discuss this with a philosopher
If you don't know where you got an idea, the likelihood is that you came across it sometime in your past, but never gave it conscious thought. The idea banged around in your subconsciousness until it finally presented itself as your "idea". I tend to think that original "ideas" don't really exist anymore, since information (written, spoken, or visual) is easily obtainable and prevalent in society. We tend to ignore more information than we realize.
2:52 dude I do the same thing whenever I want to make a recipe/make a dish or side for the first time.
The first example of this are the potatoes that I make every thanksgiving.
I literally watched dozens of TH-cam videos and read tons of recipes on Google from the media experts to the food blogs that have been around since the early 2000s, and I write down what I like from each source and what I don't like (may seem like extra meaningless work, but I love lists, especially pro and con lists/do-and-do-not-do lists lol) and I wrote down the reasons as to why or why not I choose to use or not use something and then the reasons the person penning the recipe has, and then I go through a series of breakdowns and eliminations, like a tournament kinda and I get down from however many I start with, down to the top ten, then the top five, then top three, and then I have a semi-original recipe that is a Frankenstein of several recipes.
Can confirm. That demi-glace video sent me down a Chef John rabbit hole I didn't emerge from for weeks.
Thanks for sharing your creative process. To properly credit someone, perhaps buy their cook book if available.
The other problem with food related recipe's is that several people can make the same or similar recipe in other places and have never met and never shared recipes through other means. Some recipes were made by housewives back in the medieval days just to spicen things up because they were tired of the bland or same taste they always had. Also there were chefs who needed to create new dishes or they would have died because they were working for nobles back in those days. I had made a salmon meat loaf before. I have never heard of anyone else making one ether. I had heard of others using other meats and I had heard of fish patties/ crab patties. However I thought of using fish instead of beef. Most spices were probably found by accident. Dried out to take home and found that it changed the flavor of food compared to the non dried spices.
This video just solidified my fandom of you good Sir
Decades before the internet a guy showed me how to bone a whole turkey and his process in broiling, molding the stuffing, wrapping the bird over, and cooking it to look like a regular roast turkey. He stood there and instructed me thru the whole thing. I asked if I could credit him when I served it, he said no, please don't. Everyone was blown away when I sliced it like a loaf of bread and the taste was amazing. I humbly thanked them, took him to the pub for drinks the next night to thank him, and went about my life. Later a close friend asked me to show them how to do it, and the guy was furious at me for sharing the method with anyone else, as were some people we both knew. I didn't profit from it either time, and the guy didn't make a living cooking or selling recipes. I guess I'm wondering if it was a dick move on my part, or not?