Swift or thrill could be good for faster jungle clear early game? Imagine being Fanny and getting your first buff taken along with you at lvl 1 because you didn't take it fast enough. Also some junglers deal exsessive damage after farming well and it won't hurt to take an additional talent for early game farming on top of seasoned hunter. What do you think? Also, what about thrill with magic damage heroes that utilize starlium scythe and/or wishing lantern and/or have a passive with a good magic power scaling? I think we need to make a proper calculator for this game that includes combos, items and all that. There are just too many questions and testing takes too much time.
@@diketarogg As a roam user even without Swift or Thrill I will babysit the jungler and protect any invasions. Not the usual "babysit the gold laner" thing. If you are a jungler, at level 1, you badly need assistance from your roamer. If you ask me, if I know you are ahead of gold early on and can take out enemies on your own, I'll proceed babysitting the gold laner. Usually that was my playing style. That said, unless you can make it on your own, you need the roamer's or mid laner's assistance. I've helped Ling and Fanny users many times with this playing style I have. Fanny users tend to gank right after they reach level 2 with purple buff. Even better with Rupture equipped. Invasions delay their power spike, not who clears faster. As someone who uses tank roamers, I can anticipate who clears faster: the one clearing alone or the one with backup. The invaded jungler can get lucky by successfully securing a buff with retri. The scaling is reduced by the enemy's defense and boosted by your penetration. With the same builds, higher pen means higher damage. True damage, however, may seem overpowered on paper, but it only activates with restricted requirements.
You are a good roamer. Sadly, I don't have good roamers every game. I had my buff invaded by 4 enemy players in some games, and I was all alone. Sometimes, there is a roamer, but they can hardly help agains 4 people while I'm useless at level 1. That is not every game, of course, some people do help me clear the buff faster, but soloq is unpredictable in that regard. It's funny you say that Fanny users gank instantly at level 1. My standard rotation after my blue is enemy red or my own red (or even start with red to anticipate enemy invading red or if I know I can't invade enemy red cuz they are strong early game). Fanny users on my server use similar rotations as well. We only gank at level 2 if there is an easy pickup available early and we still have energy after invading enemy red. That does not happen often, marksmen tend to play safe early, unless you are in epic, and the best you can do with limited energy and no ult is try to bait out their escape skills. I have seen good players build swift (and thrill on heroes like Balmond) on their junglers, which is why I made this comment. Funny thing is, even with swift, Fanny and many other burst assasins still have enough damage to burst down in early game, so I got a little curious. Of course, my go to is rupture, but I'm not sure it is the best option every game anymore. Also, clearing your blue before your enemy with 5 or more seconds of difference does their red has a huge benefit of allowing you to invade and take both their red and sometimes even blue as well. You might pick up up to 3 kills while at it and all that at level 2.
@@diketarogg Read my reply to your comment again, specifically these sentences: "If you are a jungler, at level 1, you badly need assistance from your roamer." "Fanny users tend to gank right after they reach level 2 with purple buff. Even better with Rupture equipped."
@@myopiamlbb I have read it carefully. Maybe, you are confused about the "Fanny users gank instantly at level 1" typo I made (I meant to say level 2). As for >"If you are a jungler, at level 1, you badly need assistance from your roamer." Read >"I don't have good roamers every game" As for >"Fanny users tend to gank right after they reach level 2 with purple buff. Even better with Rupture equipped." Read >"even with swift, Fanny and many other burst assasins still have enough damage to burst down in early game" And >"Also, clearing your blue before your enemy with 5 or more seconds of difference does their red has a huge benefit of allowing you to invade and take both their red and sometimes even blue as well. You might pick up up to 3 kills while at it and all that at level 2" That last scenario is only possible if the buff is cleared fast enough (seconds matter a lot here) and you reach level 2 before your enemy jungler does. Again, it is great to have a roamer who knows what they are doing, and I don't always have that. Also, in actual matches with enemies being carefull, most of the time is spent farming, so won't it be good to minimize farming time as much as possible? I haven't tested Fanny damage, but rupture will probably save you 1 basic attack or 1 first skill cast. Hardly a difference, if it means you are in time with your invasion. If you have your mind rigidly set on rupture being the go to talent no matter what, I won't push this discussion anymore. I don't have a point to prove here, I don't know what is truly best in that regard. I'll just test my theories later when I have time on my own.
I recommend first doing every hero that is unique each role. Ex: Wanwan. That way, if people don't see an emblem guide on that hero will mean it is using the general emblem build for the hero
As per before Lukas' release... Of all the current 126 heroes: 🔴 74 heroes (58.73%) deal physical dmg 🟣 57 heroes (45.24%) deal magic dmg ⚪ 14 heroes (11.11%) deal true dmg Of all the current 126 heroes: 🔵 86 heroes (68.25%) use mana ⚪ 40 heroes (31.75%) don't use mana Of all the current 57 magic-damage dealers: 🔵 51 of them (89.47%) use mana ⚪ 6 of them (10.53%) don't use mana Those "magic damage dealers" who use mana include: 👁️ 25 mages 👁️ 10 supports 👁️ 5 assassins 👁️ 3 fighters 👁️ 1 marksman 👁️ 7 tanks All 25 mages use mana to cast skills.
I really get confused for lunox emblem and talents bacause of her passive that can transform spellvamp to pen and vice versa in different ultimates any recommandation?
Will you teach people other than emblem configurations and itemization but also build pathaways? E.g A Roam user after buying Tough Boots, they will go for Dreadnaught Armor then Molten Essense for clearing creeps (optional and if teammates don't clear lanes.) Healing Necklace for more heal like Kaja (optional but best for self sustained heroes). Or an Jungler after boots they go for Fury Hammer then either Legion Sword or Malefic Roar for Gold per damage. Because it would be effective and easier to know what items to prioritize first.
That will depend on the heroes being picked, the team compositions, the potential counters, and the situation being faced. So many factors to consider here.
@myopiamlbb 1. Fredrinn, could use support emblem cdr + healing affects 2. Other tank junglers can use the added movement speed and cdr to farm faster and rotate sooner 3. Tank junglers can Regen way more form creeps, from the added + Higher healing affects What do you think?
@@radiance2826 1. Tank junglers commonly equip Concussive Blast and buy a cursed helmet. The higher their HP, the higher the damage of both CB and CH. 2. Tank junglers have boots. If they sell the boots, they downgrade their retri. 3. Tank junglers have access to the purple buff for CDR, and litho for movement speed boost.
I just have one question to make sure , I'm Considering Minotaur as a frontline tank not a healing support cause his hp with the same items is lower than lolita in the late game so I'm using the full tank emblem and talents on him
I go support emblem for minotaur with a half supprt half tank item build. The build could look like this: Cdr boots. Flask Of The Oasis. Winter Crown. Dominance Ice. Oracle. The last item is situational, I usually go for Blade Armor to survive late game marksmen (Yes, this one item is generally enough, thanks to his 2nd skill passive after ult). Also, I build dominance ice first, if the enemy have Alpha or something similar as their jungler. Emblem and spell: Support emblem. Agility. Pull Yourself Together. Brave Smite. Revitalize. I think of Minotaur as a bad tank, as he is unable to take as much damage, as most other tanks, however he has a good healing range and cc skills, but his skills take a lot of time to cooldown, therefore I go for cdr support build. Also, I can tank just fine after casting ultimate thanks to his 2nd skill passive. However, Minotaur is quite vulnerable while casting his ult and can die easily, so winter crown or revitalize help a lot. While Minotaur cannot sustain for very long in a team fight, he can heal his full hp quickly while also healing his allies and reenter the fight a little later. To fully utilize Minotaur support, it is best to have a sustain/tank exp laner like Hilda or Terizla. But I'm not saying your playstyle is wrong, I'm simply sharing my way of playing the hero. If your method works, go for it, but I personally cannot play Minotaur with a tank build. He simply lacks both healing and tanking abilities with a tank build for me. If you want a good tank, you better better think Belerick or Gatotkaca IMO.
As for me, I'm considering Minotaur as both a frontline tank and a healing support at the same time. As much as I want to opt for an oracle, he has to be durable, so I dropped the oracle for proper defense items. My build: 👁️ Warrior/Tough Boots - Conceal 👁️ Dominance Ice 👁️ Radiant Armor 👁️ Antique Cuirass 👁️ Athena's Shield 👁️ Flask of the Oasis/Immortality/Twilight Armor/Blade Armor Buying an oracle would mean sacrificing one of the defense items. My Emblem Set: 🟢 Custom Support Emblem 🟢 Agility ⚪ Wilderness Blessing 🟠 Concussive Blast
Idk, healing my allies with the press of one button just feels good. I really tried to build Minotaur as a tank, I just can't play him as a tank, I just keep dying, despite the full tank build. I even used to build tank emblem on him and played with a flicker and on top of that, it was before tanks got nerfed. I guess, I'm just bad at the game, hahah. Healing go brr, I suppose. Also, without the cdr I feel so useless with his 1st skill taking 11s to recharge and me being quite unable to tank much damage. I also like to build oracle on other tanks so that my cc skills have shorter cd. Examples are: Carmilla, Lolita, Johnson, Belerick (yeah, mostly supports with shields/healing). My point is, to tank, you either have more health or defense or you take no damage (ie by cc'ing damage dealers or using Winter Crown). Healing your hp means you have more health (while mostly ignoring HP based attacks like Demon Hunter Sword), so you tank more, and oracle gives hybrid def, more healing on top of giving cdr. Other items give one form of defense mostly, but oracle is more versatile.
@diketarogg I even used flicker on him and I can pull off an S1+flicker combo of an ult+flicker combo without difficulty. Maybe I'm so used to using setter tanks which is my reason why. Using revitalize on Minotaur will mean changing the roam skill from Conceal to Favor. I believe you used Favor, didn't you?
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Swift or thrill could be good for faster jungle clear early game? Imagine being Fanny and getting your first buff taken along with you at lvl 1 because you didn't take it fast enough. Also some junglers deal exsessive damage after farming well and it won't hurt to take an additional talent for early game farming on top of seasoned hunter. What do you think? Also, what about thrill with magic damage heroes that utilize starlium scythe and/or wishing lantern and/or have a passive with a good magic power scaling?
I think we need to make a proper calculator for this game that includes combos, items and all that. There are just too many questions and testing takes too much time.
@@diketarogg As a roam user even without Swift or Thrill I will babysit the jungler and protect any invasions. Not the usual "babysit the gold laner" thing. If you are a jungler, at level 1, you badly need assistance from your roamer.
If you ask me, if I know you are ahead of gold early on and can take out enemies on your own, I'll proceed babysitting the gold laner. Usually that was my playing style. That said, unless you can make it on your own, you need the roamer's or mid laner's assistance. I've helped Ling and Fanny users many times with this playing style I have.
Fanny users tend to gank right after they reach level 2 with purple buff. Even better with Rupture equipped. Invasions delay their power spike, not who clears faster. As someone who uses tank roamers, I can anticipate who clears faster: the one clearing alone or the one with backup. The invaded jungler can get lucky by successfully securing a buff with retri.
The scaling is reduced by the enemy's defense and boosted by your penetration. With the same builds, higher pen means higher damage. True damage, however, may seem overpowered on paper, but it only activates with restricted requirements.
You are a good roamer. Sadly, I don't have good roamers every game. I had my buff invaded by 4 enemy players in some games, and I was all alone. Sometimes, there is a roamer, but they can hardly help agains 4 people while I'm useless at level 1. That is not every game, of course, some people do help me clear the buff faster, but soloq is unpredictable in that regard.
It's funny you say that Fanny users gank instantly at level 1. My standard rotation after my blue is enemy red or my own red (or even start with red to anticipate enemy invading red or if I know I can't invade enemy red cuz they are strong early game). Fanny users on my server use similar rotations as well. We only gank at level 2 if there is an easy pickup available early and we still have energy after invading enemy red. That does not happen often, marksmen tend to play safe early, unless you are in epic, and the best you can do with limited energy and no ult is try to bait out their escape skills.
I have seen good players build swift (and thrill on heroes like Balmond) on their junglers, which is why I made this comment. Funny thing is, even with swift, Fanny and many other burst assasins still have enough damage to burst down in early game, so I got a little curious. Of course, my go to is rupture, but I'm not sure it is the best option every game anymore.
Also, clearing your blue before your enemy with 5 or more seconds of difference does their red has a huge benefit of allowing you to invade and take both their red and sometimes even blue as well. You might pick up up to 3 kills while at it and all that at level 2.
@@diketarogg Read my reply to your comment again, specifically these sentences:
"If you are a jungler, at level 1, you badly need assistance from your roamer."
"Fanny users tend to gank right after they reach level 2 with purple buff. Even better with Rupture equipped."
@@myopiamlbb I have read it carefully. Maybe, you are confused about the "Fanny users gank instantly at level 1" typo I made (I meant to say level 2).
As for
>"If you are a jungler, at level 1, you badly need assistance from your roamer."
Read
>"I don't have good roamers every game"
As for
>"Fanny users tend to gank right after they reach level 2 with purple buff. Even better with Rupture equipped."
Read
>"even with swift, Fanny and many other burst assasins still have enough damage to burst down in early game"
And
>"Also, clearing your blue before your enemy with 5 or more seconds of difference does their red has a huge benefit of allowing you to invade and take both their red and sometimes even blue as well. You might pick up up to 3 kills while at it and all that at level 2"
That last scenario is only possible if the buff is cleared fast enough (seconds matter a lot here) and you reach level 2 before your enemy jungler does. Again, it is great to have a roamer who knows what they are doing, and I don't always have that. Also, in actual matches with enemies being carefull, most of the time is spent farming, so won't it be good to minimize farming time as much as possible?
I haven't tested Fanny damage, but rupture will probably save you 1 basic attack or 1 first skill cast. Hardly a difference, if it means you are in time with your invasion.
If you have your mind rigidly set on rupture being the go to talent no matter what, I won't push this discussion anymore. I don't have a point to prove here, I don't know what is truly best in that regard. I'll just test my theories later when I have time on my own.
@diketarogg Looking forward to your theory. But for once, I agree with your reply right here. I'll test Fanny's damage as well. That I can assure you.
I recommend first doing every hero that is unique each role. Ex: Wanwan. That way, if people don't see an emblem guide on that hero will mean it is using the general emblem build for the hero
I think he said the best option for emblem is to use tank emblem on Wanwan
@amirhosein7342 for talents, it's going to be very different
Based on Strongwill's last mm guide it should be vitality + tenacity + warcry
but I really not a fan of warcry talent
@@amirhosein7342 yeah. Weapon master suit her with Ultimate but who knows
@@theunknown1666 I think weapon master is definitely useless compared to other talents
Since when common emblem became mages new go to emblem
@@ZayiksIqari I have my own statistical findings that prove it.
Well im happy even the common emblem is better than mage emblem for mages 💀 @@myopiamlbb
As per before Lukas' release...
Of all the current 126 heroes:
🔴 74 heroes (58.73%) deal physical dmg
🟣 57 heroes (45.24%) deal magic dmg
⚪ 14 heroes (11.11%) deal true dmg
Of all the current 126 heroes:
🔵 86 heroes (68.25%) use mana
⚪ 40 heroes (31.75%) don't use mana
Of all the current 57 magic-damage dealers:
🔵 51 of them (89.47%) use mana
⚪ 6 of them (10.53%) don't use mana
Those "magic damage dealers" who use mana include:
👁️ 25 mages
👁️ 10 supports
👁️ 5 assassins
👁️ 3 fighters
👁️ 1 marksman
👁️ 7 tanks
All 25 mages use mana to cast skills.
@@myopiamlbb since you mentioned Lukas what do you think is he an assassin or spell vamp exp laner
@@ZayiksIqari Right now I have no idea.
I really get confused for lunox emblem and talents bacause of her passive that can transform spellvamp to pen and vice versa in different ultimates any recommandation?
@@amirhosein7342
My Emblem Set:
🟣 Custom Assassin Emblem
🟣 Rupture
🔴 Festival of Blood
🔵 Lethal Ignition
My Build:
👁️ Arcane Boots
👁️ Genius Wand
👁️ Glowing Wand
👁️ Ice Queen Wand
👁️ Concentrated Energy
👁️ Divine Glaive
@myopiamlbb Wow I did not expect such a quick response. I really appreciate that you create such a great atmosphere with your subs
Nana build please 😊😊😊
Will you teach people other than emblem configurations and itemization but also build pathaways? E.g A Roam user after buying Tough Boots, they will go for Dreadnaught Armor then Molten Essense for clearing creeps (optional and if teammates don't clear lanes.) Healing Necklace for more heal like Kaja (optional but best for self sustained heroes). Or an Jungler after boots they go for Fury Hammer then either Legion Sword or Malefic Roar for Gold per damage. Because it would be effective and easier to know what items to prioritize first.
That will depend on the heroes being picked, the team compositions, the potential counters, and the situation being faced. So many factors to consider here.
Quick questions,
For tank junglers, doesnt Support emblem gives a good side grade to use as oppose the regular tank emblem?
@@radiance2826 I don't see any tank jungler with immense regen capabilities that can warrant a Support Emblem.
@myopiamlbb
1. Fredrinn, could use support emblem cdr + healing affects
2. Other tank junglers can use the added movement speed and cdr to farm faster and rotate sooner
3. Tank junglers can Regen way more form creeps, from the added +
Higher healing affects
What do you think?
@@radiance2826
1. Tank junglers commonly equip Concussive Blast and buy a cursed helmet. The higher their HP, the higher the damage of both CB and CH.
2. Tank junglers have boots. If they sell the boots, they downgrade their retri.
3. Tank junglers have access to the purple buff for CDR, and litho for movement speed boost.
I just have one question to make sure , I'm Considering Minotaur as a frontline tank not a healing support cause his hp with the same items is lower than lolita in the late game
so I'm using the full tank emblem and talents on him
@@amirhosein7342 He is part of the tank roamers in general, and with your emblem set, it proves your point.
I go support emblem for minotaur with a half supprt half tank item build.
The build could look like this:
Cdr boots.
Flask Of The Oasis.
Winter Crown.
Dominance Ice.
Oracle.
The last item is situational, I usually go for Blade Armor to survive late game marksmen (Yes, this one item is generally enough, thanks to his 2nd skill passive after ult). Also, I build dominance ice first, if the enemy have Alpha or something similar as their jungler.
Emblem and spell:
Support emblem.
Agility.
Pull Yourself Together.
Brave Smite.
Revitalize.
I think of Minotaur as a bad tank, as he is unable to take as much damage, as most other tanks, however he has a good healing range and cc skills, but his skills take a lot of time to cooldown, therefore I go for cdr support build. Also, I can tank just fine after casting ultimate thanks to his 2nd skill passive. However, Minotaur is quite vulnerable while casting his ult and can die easily, so winter crown or revitalize help a lot. While Minotaur cannot sustain for very long in a team fight, he can heal his full hp quickly while also healing his allies and reenter the fight a little later. To fully utilize Minotaur support, it is best to have a sustain/tank exp laner like Hilda or Terizla.
But I'm not saying your playstyle is wrong, I'm simply sharing my way of playing the hero. If your method works, go for it, but I personally cannot play Minotaur with a tank build. He simply lacks both healing and tanking abilities with a tank build for me. If you want a good tank, you better better think Belerick or Gatotkaca IMO.
As for me, I'm considering Minotaur as both a frontline tank and a healing support at the same time. As much as I want to opt for an oracle, he has to be durable, so I dropped the oracle for proper defense items.
My build:
👁️ Warrior/Tough Boots - Conceal
👁️ Dominance Ice
👁️ Radiant Armor
👁️ Antique Cuirass
👁️ Athena's Shield
👁️ Flask of the Oasis/Immortality/Twilight Armor/Blade Armor
Buying an oracle would mean sacrificing one of the defense items.
My Emblem Set:
🟢 Custom Support Emblem
🟢 Agility
⚪ Wilderness Blessing
🟠 Concussive Blast
Idk, healing my allies with the press of one button just feels good. I really tried to build Minotaur as a tank, I just can't play him as a tank, I just keep dying, despite the full tank build. I even used to build tank emblem on him and played with a flicker and on top of that, it was before tanks got nerfed.
I guess, I'm just bad at the game, hahah.
Healing go brr, I suppose.
Also, without the cdr I feel so useless with his 1st skill taking 11s to recharge and me being quite unable to tank much damage.
I also like to build oracle on other tanks so that my cc skills have shorter cd. Examples are: Carmilla, Lolita, Johnson, Belerick (yeah, mostly supports with shields/healing). My point is, to tank, you either have more health or defense or you take no damage (ie by cc'ing damage dealers or using Winter Crown). Healing your hp means you have more health (while mostly ignoring HP based attacks like Demon Hunter Sword), so you tank more, and oracle gives hybrid def, more healing on top of giving cdr. Other items give one form of defense mostly, but oracle is more versatile.
@diketarogg I even used flicker on him and I can pull off an S1+flicker combo of an ult+flicker combo without difficulty. Maybe I'm so used to using setter tanks which is my reason why.
Using revitalize on Minotaur will mean changing the roam skill from Conceal to Favor. I believe you used Favor, didn't you?
Ling and Hayabusa build please
First!!
Does esmeralda considered tank jungler?
@@syednazran3966 A tank EXP laner.