I replaced Trex (crap) decking 8 years ago with Ipe. My deck is 15' x 20' and i purchased 20' boards as I didn't want seams. It doesn't cup or warp. It does eat sawblades due to it's hardness. I clean it with Deckwise cleaner and oil with Ipe oil every 2 years and it is gorgeous. Absolutely no raising of the grain! No worries about surface splinters making it barefoot safe to this day. Takes about 1-1/2 hours to clean, a day to dry and about an hour to roll on the oil and wipe any excess after 15 minutes. Looks like walnut. Pricey but bullet-proof. Well worth it for the best! P.S. my climate ranges from 0-105F. I even shovel the snow off it in the winter with a plastic tipped shovel. Any grease stains (BBQ) or scratches are eliminated with the next clean/oil treatment.
Can you please tell me how you clean it? Brush, sand? We power washed ours and it raised the grain, and we got marks from the pressure washer. Even before this tho, it never looked as good as it did the first time. The oils we used looked great at first, but then just kept darkening. What is the trick? And since my husband just oiled it the other day, do we need to remove all that and start over? Thanks!
We bring in stock from timber holdings and have to say non compare to the quality they offer,. Colors do differ to about 6 shades and tones but all within the same durability. To anyone using like any other wood sanding is reccomended to remove mill glaze. You did a great job with this video and thank you.
I've got cumaru which is just as hard and rot resistant. It's gorgeous, but its a pain to keep looking nice. I live in SE Virginia. 18 X 20. Each spring it requires deep cleaning. I put TSP or similar (oxygenated bleach, deck wash, etc) on there and let it soak, then pressure wash it. Yes, pressure wash. It is SO hard that a PSI washer isn't going to hurt it unless you use a massive machine and a very fine point tip. It's a solid 5-6 hour job. Then I spray it with oxalic acid to brighten it. Then rinse. Come back a day later depending on sun and heat and coat it with Messmers. Prob takes me 2-3 hours to apply the oil and another 2 down on my hands and knees wiping it dry. Omit this step at your own peril. The stuff MUST be dried. The deck looks AMAZING but it is a GIANT PITA to do this each spring. Then in the fall it looks maybe half as good as it did in March. So I give it another straight pressure wash with no cleaning chemicals. Just to make it look decent and to keep the mold and crap from getting a good hold on it over the winter. I wish it were less work as I am now 65 and do not enjoy all the BS. My neighbor has IPE. She has never done a thing to it but walk on it. It's sweather grey and looks very nice. Not as nice as mine, but nice enough. Its a deck, not furniture.
Haha, I didn't know what I was buying. I noticed it was very heavy, but I didn't know it would be that heavy. And I managed to cut like eight of these boards with a cheap hand saw (I payed for it an equivalent of eight US dollars). No wood chips, just saw dust. The cut looked like stone, shinny. I put some scrape wood in a bucket, half of these peaces of wood floated, half of theme sinked.
Workin for someone, completed a cold plunge using the leftover ipe they had from their back deck... Kept the scraps for knife handles... This sh*t is unbelievable
You can basically fill the flutes of a bit and...best stop and clear the flutes! This is crazy hard wood! I am building a lap steel with this. It will require a stand!!
Sorry to break it to you guys. but IPE is no longer available that was coming from mature trees that's over 35 years old but are coming from younger trees, so what happens is the wood will last long but not as long but will also twist and break out fasteners, also the lumber companies are milling other unstable lumber and calling it IPE. Reference - I built with IPE for 15 years, and became an importer also
Well, this is true of all wood species. The stable, old growth stuff is long gone and the things our ancestors created with wood we can no longer reliably do. That doesn't mean that Ipe can't be used anymore, but it may mean more caution in sourcing it.
Locust is a hardy wood but it is only available in very limited areas. And, I would not put it in the same category as Ipe in terms of it's structural properties or it's aesthetic qualities.
@@enduringcharm It's available in large quantities from me, here in Southern WV. I'm getting ready to replace a Ipe boardwalk that is only 25 years old with Black Locust. Show me documentation that Ipe can even last 50 years in ground contact. Locust can last over 100 years in ground contact. And IPE is not sustainable at all. FSC is a fruad and Ipe you are using could be 2000 year old wood. Not sustainable at all. Personally, I think Locust is a lot more attractive than IPE and it has the highest beam strength of all US hardwoods.
@@ekimosurac1 I see you are responding to an old comment of mine. I'm not knocking black locust if that's what you like and it's available near you. It looks like you happen to live near where that tree grows natively. For most of the US, black locust decking is not readily available. Ipe may also be difficult to find now, but it has a better distribution channel. Hopefully you are not putting any type of decking in ground contact, though. When I build decks, porches or other exterior wood structures, no wood is in ground contact at all. Black locust looks much like pine decking with pronounced grain pattern. Ipe is a much more refined look, which appeals to many. Finally, sustainability is poor for virtually all commercially sold woods today. I can only build with what I can buy. If you didn't see it, take a look at my recent review of a new thermally modified decking product which looks great and which may provide a more sustainable resource: th-cam.com/video/tHItszOLE20/w-d-xo.html
Yes, good point. Color can vary and if you will not be letting the wood age to gray, then you'll want to make certain you have a good match across all the decking.
I have a new deck that is 8' above grade, so I have plenty of cross ventilation. Deck is 16' x 30 ' with the joists running with the 16' dimension. I live in central Massachusetts so we have a full four season climate. I have a few questions. 1) Is 1" x 6" thick enough to avoid cupping? Is it worth going to 1" x 6" plus? Or should I go to 5/4" x 6"? 2) I'm going to let it weather to a silvery gray. Should I seal the decking before I install it? If yes, do I have to seal it on all four sides? 3) I want to use a hidden fastener system. Any suggestions?
Cupping is a non issue. 1x Ipe will span 16 inch centers and 5/4 will span 24 inch centers. Other than that it's an aesthetic choice. If you want to let it weather you can just leave it, but you MUST seal the ends with wax after you make a cut. Otherwise, you'll get cracks and checking on the end. Don't be sloppy with the wax, or it will show on the surface after installation. Most Ipe is now available pre-grooved on the edges for several brands of hidden fastener systems. The clip systems all work essentially the same way, so whatever you can buy locally is likely fine. Or, you can use stainless screws and Ipe plugs glued in with gorilla glue or similar. That's what I did on my own deck 15 or so years ago before hidden fasteners were available.
We have an Ipe deck. It is so much more beautiful than any cedar or other non-hardwood, as it doesn't ever look dried out, and splintery. BUT, it is in no way, shape, or form, easier. If you let it gray, maybe, but if you don't like a weathered looking deck, it is not easy.
Yeah, if you try to maintain the original cinnamon red color, it will be an annual battle against the UV rays of the sun. There are many oils or finishes you can use, but those with UV protection in the formula will have the most success. And you may need to strip off one product to use another. If you allow the wood to weather to a silver-gray, there will be very little maintenance other than an occasional wash or keeping mildew at bay in shaded areas.
I've actually tried to burn some scraps out of curiosity. It burns about as well as mild steel! If you need to fire-proof your deck, this is the decking for you!
Great Video with lots of info . Thanks so Much ! Will the original color come back if planed ie. repurposing boards that have been used for decking. or does the natural aging outdoors go all through the wood? Thinking about making fretboards but doing the due diligence first .
Yes, the color will come back if you remove the weathered surface. How far that layer goes will vary. I'm not convinced Ipe would be the best wood for fretboards, though. It's difficult to work due to the density. For fine or delicate fret inlays or for gluing to the neck it might be more pain than it is worth.
Have book looking into using this for some large built in planters in the front yard but I'm in Vegas and temps will get over 120º how will this fair over redwood?
Using Ipe for planters is probably overkill. Ipe will far outlast redwood, however, and it is many times stronger too. Whatever wood you choose for a planter, the best practice is to avoid direct contact with the soil. You can use plastic liners or other means to separate the soil from the wood, but the more opportunity you give the wood to dry out and stay dry, the longer it will last. If direct soil contact cannot be avoided you are better off either with ground-contact rate pressure treated lumber or a composite material.
Ipe is very tricky to finish. In a deck situation it's a matter of keeping UV rays at bay to protect the color. That can be done with various treated oils applied regularly. For a furniture application ipe is a lot like teak in that it's somewhat oily and may not take finishes well. There are many other woods I would consider before using ipe for furniture, other than as an accent perhaps.
I’m making a garage door with a pine frame (and metal struts), and I’m thinking about attaching Ipe on the exposed side. Do you think it’s too heavy for that application?
Yes, I do! Ipe is insanely dense. That density makes it some of the toughest and strongest wood on the planet, but the price is weight. If this is an overhead garage door you are making I can't imagine the size of the springs needed. If you want the look of Ipe there are other woods you could try and various stains/paints you could use instead. Mahogany, teak, and Spanish cedar come to mind as alternatives.
No, and I also responded to your question in the window video. Ipe just poses too many working and finishing issues to be useful as a window material, plus it's very expensive.
This is amazing info. Is there a good decking hardwood to replace my pressure treated pine boards that is a little easier to work with? Maybe between pine and this one? Not composite though. Plus i wonder if because the joists are pine, would the hardwood boards stay attached? Thanks very much
There's not an easy answer. For those who prefer actual wood over composite materials, choices are slim these days. Part of it is that the market has moved on to composites, which offer bigger profits to manufacturers, the promise (but not always reality) of being maintenance free, and for carpenters the advantage of being uniform and predictable. Another part of it is that wood, in general, has become much lower in quality. Modern wood is fast-growth stock, which is less stable, has less concentration of rot-resistant chemicals, and which has unattractive appearance. Cedar decks used to be common. Modern cedar, however, is not rot resistant because the trees are cut down too early and the chemicals which make cedar rot resistant don't have enough time to concentrate in the heartwood. Same for mahogany. In some areas of New England vertical grain fir has been used for decking for centuries, but tight, vertical grain fir is just a memory now. Black locust has been used in some areas of the country, but that is very regional. for tropical hardwoods there is ipe, tigerwood, and cumaru. Some of this comes from large, old-growth timber some does not. It is a niche market, though, so expense is high. Pressure treated pine still exists, but the quality is horrendous. Carpenters rush to get it installed before it warps too much to BE installed. So, for a wood deck today it's really one of the tropical hardwoods for a high-end deck, or pressure treated pine for a deck that will last a few years. As far as the joists, pressure treated pin is still the overwhelming choice and not a problem to mix with other woods. However, we do a lot more with flashing and protection today than was done decades ago.
enduringcharm thank you very much! Ive been hearing that pressure treated isn’t what it used to be. My deck is 25 years old. 30 in one section. Maybe i should just have it sanded The problem is that many of the screws have rusted and broken into the joists below but maybe a professional can deal with that.
With a deck that old you should also consider the state of the framing. Installing an expensive decking like Ipe over framing that is likely in poor condition is not a great idea since the decking would outlast the framing. Your best choices are probably either repairing the existing decking where needed and staining or replacing all of the decking with new pressure treated. Either way, you should set your expectations that the deck is on borrowed time. Unless the original builder took extraordinary precautions, the framing itself will need attention or complete replacement at that age. Maybe you can get another five years out of it, but at some point it will be more trouble than it's worth.
I am thinking of using this wood for a urn. Decay resistant and bug resistant. Very nice grain and color. What about water resistant? Do you have an opinion?
I'd advise you to look elsewhere. As far as woodworking I'd say Ipe could be used well in terms of accents or inlays and that kind of thing. To build entire items from Ipe I think you'll find it annoying to work with and not worth the effort. It's great for decks and outdoor projects, less so for fine woodworking. There are other tropical hardwoods and standard hardwoods that are easier to work and provide similar appearance.
Thanks for the info, excellent. Wondering if you’re aware of any fasteners to attach Ipe to lightweight galvinized steel (LGS) joists? Similar to Trex elevations but way less expensive. Instead of pressure treated lumber. I’m trying to avoid using PT treated lumber so it doesn’t bow/warp/twist making the Ipe investment look bad.
Honestly, I think pressure treated is fine if done well. The Ipe can span greater distances, and I've done ipe decks with joists on 16 inch centers but fasteners on 32 inch centers. The non-fastened joist gets 3M 5200 sealant on top to help bridge any gap. Or, just expand the joist spacing. I'm not aware of any metal joist fastener for Ipe specifically. The Ipe is quite stable as long as you seal the cuts and build a decent frame.
No, I wouldn't recommend Ipe for that. The weight alone would be problematic. This stuff weighs a TON! As an accent wood in a door, perhaps, but not the main members. The style of door has a lot to do with management of expansion and contraction, more than the species of wood. Doors made of solid wood planks in parallel will expand and contract much more than a door made with panels, rails and stiles. If you've had issues with seasonal movement before, I'd recommend a door style with multiple panels that allow expansion and contraction without changing the overall width much. Interior doors can be painted to slow the transfer of moisture that results in movement. Door stops can be made thicker so that a larger gap between the door and frame is acceptable.
Ipe should hold up just fine in Michigan weather. Here in Jersey we have winters that get to single digit temps with snow, and we have summers with high 90 temps and crazy humidity. Ipe does well in it all. As for the cost of a deck, that's impossible to say given all the variables involved, as well as regional differences in costs. I will say that if you are going to use Ipe for the decking, you should makes sure all the other details are designed for longevity. That means stainless steel fasteners, flashing over the tops of joists, deep footings, strong blocking for railing posts, and similar details to make the deck strong and weatherproof. You should also make sure your contractor understands how to work with Ipe as far as sealing/waxing fresh cuts, predrilling holes, getting spans right, etc.
You keep saying the weight and difficulty installing is a negative. Any work done properly is more trouble than just throwing something down in a hurry. Frankly, I don't see any negatives. If you put down a good Ipe, or any other similar, quality tropical hardwood, properly you will save so much time, effort and cost in the long run because you won't be replacing it for forty years. I clean my deck once a year, re-sand it and re-oil it every two to three years and it looks the same as when it was installed ten years ago.
Good info I have never worked with it before doesn't seem to be to popular here in my area. The cabinet maker in me is thinking that would be a good material for wood counter tops.
I don't know about countertops. Fitting multiple boards tightly together might be difficult due to the machining issues. You'd kill your jointer knives! And gluing with typical wood glues like Titebond might be sketchy as well. I've never tried it, though. I saved a bunch of scraps over the years but I never figured out what to do with them yet!
You may be able to get it locally at a decent lumberyard. However, with covid the supply chain is really messed up and I'm not sure what you'll find this spring.
I too have leftover Ipe from my deck and really want to make Ipe chairs. I don't want your plans...I just want to know what you learned. Did you use pocket holes? How did you rip the deck boards (i don't have a table saw)? How did you make the curve cuts? When you glue Ipe, is the glue enough to seal the ends?
I have two Ipe adirondack style chairs on my deck I made 10-15 years ago. I've lost count. I used various stainless steel screws and stainless bolts for the joinery. The screws were covered with Ipe plugs. They weigh a ton and never move even in the worst winds! Ripping the deck boards can be done with a table saw or with a circular saw. My video on a circular saw jig might be helpful to you. Curved cuts can be made with a jigsaw and sharp blade. Screw and bolt holes are pre-drilled. You can work Ipe the same way as other hardwoods, it just takes a little more effort and power, as well as time.
Do you mean pressure treated pine (ACQ) as framing material? Yes, you can, although you should take care in the flashing and choice of fasteners so that the framing lasts as long as the Ipe.
That's a good question. Really any cut needs to be protected, either with wax or another method. To be clear, it's the immediate period of the cut when checking or cracks can appear. Once the wood has stabilized you no longer need to worry. The wax does eventually wear off if kept outdoors. So, for a chair or piece of furniture you might be willing to take a little more risk since it's only a small board that could be replaced if need be. On a deck it's a bigger deal. You may be able make cuts for the chair and avoid the wax as long as you keep the parts or the chair out of the sun or high heat for a few days or a week. Or, if you are going to stain or oil the chair, you could do that right after the cut or the router pass.
It makes for good decking but for a countertop it would be difficult to make and to maintain. As a cutting board the fuzzy grain would end up in food. Other woods, such as Maple, are far superior for this kind of application even thought they may look different.
There are a million composite decking products now, and they span a wide range of price and quality. Ipe is likely going to be comparable to a high-end composite decking.
How long it takes to turn gray depends on environmental factors like how much sun it gets in a day and even where you are located geographically. If you've ever visited shore areas you know the decks and siding there turn gray very quickly, perhaps due to the salt air and sunshine. Inland areas with thick trees will take a lot longer. But in most areas I do think you'll see the graying happen in a year or two. There is a transitional phase, of course, where there is some gray and some brown.
Once the wood surface has turned silver/gray, the only way to restore the reddish brown color would be sanding. If you want to keep the red/brown color you need to treat with a sealer that contains UV (ultraviolet) protection. That will prevent the wood from oxidizing in the sun. Still, you'll need to treat regularly to keep the color.
enduringcharm sandeded, one year Powerwash, used panafin cleaners, used cabot, panafin, ipe oil... everything resulted to same grey. It is in the hot sun. Do you recommend any uv oil?
Well, some of the products you mentioned have worked for others, and another product is made by Armstrong-Clark (www.armstrongclarkstain.com/). I don't know what might be available in your area. In any case, at this point you'll need to clean and sand to get rid of all the old product on the deck. A commercial orbital floor sander can be used and there is little danger of gouging the wood since it is so dense. Then pick your product and set your expectations that you'll need to recoat often, perhaps two or three times a year depending on where you live and your sun exposure. Or, let it go gray and just leave it.
Sorry, I've got nothing for you. My advice would be to try to find a local lumberyard who will help first. You might pay a little more, but you'll also get scheduled delivery, you may be able to see the wood before you buy, and you'll have a place to return any defective boards. These days I have to buy a lot of things online, sight unseen--that's just the way it is now. However, a majority of the time I also have problems with those online purchases. Delivery scheduling is a nightmare, shipping damage is common, the items are not what they were advertised to be, etc. With the cost of Ipe, I'd rather be able to see and touch it first if possible.
Do you think this would be a good product for a Bocce court wall base? as a court base it would be in ground contact, and have the bocce balls banging against it.
I had too look up what a bocce court looks like! I know nothing about the game. As far as the ipe, it would certainly take the abuse of the balls as well or better than any other wood. However, no wood is ideal for ground contact. Pressure treated wood rated for ground contact is your best chance at avoiding rot, and drainage underneath in the form of sand or gravel will help a lot. If wood is your material of choice, you might consider installing a base layer of pressure treated wood bedded in gravel, then using ipe on top of that where it shows.
Thank you for your post, very educational. I have a 4”x4”stainless steel structure frame and I want to mount Ipe wood onto it (fir aesthetics.) Can Ipe be glued onto stainless steel, if so, what type of glue do you recommend? (Screwing may not be an option.)
I doubt that would last long. I have glued ipe to ipe with polyurethane glue. That's how I've glued in screw plugs and it has held over years. I've also glued down Ipe to pressure treated joists using 3m 5200 Marine Adhesive, and that has held. But gluing any wood to metal is asking a lot, plus Ipe is an oily kind of wood. Can you screw from below and use adhesive? Some kind of mechanical fastener would really help the adhesive hold.
@@enduringcharm that's helpful and productive depending on your layout. That would save a ton of time! Is it basically like a t&g female groove on both sides or what?
I'm not a fan of power washing n the first place. After power washing Ipe with an aggressive tip you may find it becomes fuzzy and ragged looking. That's the very fine wood fibers being torn up. Once damaged all you can do is dry sand it with a floor sander or else wait it out until time and wear makes the finish smooth again. Power washing will also damage other wood species, but the damage appears differently--the grain of pine becomes more pronounced, for example.
Yes a stripper is a bad idea and completely unnecessary. Strippers are made to remove top coat products like water sealers that flake and peel off on softwoods. We recommend you use DeckWise Cleaner and brightener and the Ipe Oil. You might need to sand the deck though now that it had a stripper applied to it.
You must clean it (don't use a power washer) with a good deck cleaner, then sand it (I do it by hand held RO sander which takes a little more time but the results are excellent) and put a coat of Ipe Oil on it. Don't neglect to remove the excess after about 30 minutes by using a cloth to rub it out. I use 120 and then 220 for a smooth finish. I do this once every three years and just clean once or twice a year in the interim. Results in a beautiful surface that is soft for bare feet.
A tongue and groove deck is not a great idea anyway, since it traps water and debris instead of allowing it through the slots. On a covered porch it would be okay, but I would look for pre-milled stock rather than try and make it in my shop.
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I replaced Trex (crap) decking 8 years ago with Ipe. My deck is 15' x 20' and i purchased 20' boards as I didn't want seams. It doesn't cup or warp. It does eat sawblades due to it's hardness. I clean it with Deckwise cleaner and oil with Ipe oil every 2 years and it is gorgeous. Absolutely no raising of the grain! No worries about surface splinters making it barefoot safe to this day. Takes about 1-1/2 hours to clean, a day to dry and about an hour to roll on the oil and wipe any excess after 15 minutes. Looks like walnut. Pricey but bullet-proof. Well worth it for the best! P.S. my climate ranges from 0-105F. I even shovel the snow off it in the winter with a plastic tipped shovel. Any grease stains (BBQ) or scratches are eliminated with the next clean/oil treatment.
Agreed--it's so bulletproof it almost doesn't seem like wood.
Can you please tell me how you clean it? Brush, sand? We power washed ours and it raised the grain, and we got marks from the pressure washer. Even before this tho, it never looked as good as it did the first time. The oils we used looked great at first, but then just kept darkening. What is the trick? And since my husband just oiled it the other day, do we need to remove all that and start over? Thanks!
Ipe is Brazilian Walnut. Not sure if it's an actual walnut species or are called that because it looks a little like walnut.
Thank you very much for the tip on sealing the ends...I used this as the top rail for for my railing and found that is checked.
We bring in stock from timber holdings and have to say non compare to the quality they offer,. Colors do differ to about 6 shades and tones but all within the same durability. To anyone using like any other wood sanding is reccomended to remove mill glaze. You did a great job with this video and thank you.
Your explanations and the quality of your channel are excellent . Thank you .
I've got cumaru which is just as hard and rot resistant. It's gorgeous, but its a pain to keep looking nice. I live in SE Virginia. 18 X 20. Each spring it requires deep cleaning. I put TSP or similar (oxygenated bleach, deck wash, etc) on there and let it soak, then pressure wash it. Yes, pressure wash. It is SO hard that a PSI washer isn't going to hurt it unless you use a massive machine and a very fine point tip. It's a solid 5-6 hour job. Then I spray it with oxalic acid to brighten it. Then rinse.
Come back a day later depending on sun and heat and coat it with Messmers. Prob takes me 2-3 hours to apply the oil and another 2 down on my hands and knees wiping it dry. Omit this step at your own peril. The stuff MUST be dried.
The deck looks AMAZING but it is a GIANT PITA to do this each spring. Then in the fall it looks maybe half as good as it did in March. So I give it another straight pressure wash with no cleaning chemicals. Just to make it look decent and to keep the mold and crap from getting a good hold on it over the winter.
I wish it were less work as I am now 65 and do not enjoy all the BS. My neighbor has IPE. She has never done a thing to it but walk on it. It's sweather grey and looks very nice. Not as nice as mine, but nice enough. Its a deck, not furniture.
never knew you had to seal EVERY cut. Thx or the info. I'm thinking of using this for bandsaw blade guides
Haha, I didn't know what I was buying. I noticed it was very heavy, but I didn't know it would be that heavy. And I managed to cut like eight of these boards with a cheap hand saw (I payed for it an equivalent of eight US dollars). No wood chips, just saw dust. The cut looked like stone, shinny. I put some scrape wood in a bucket, half of these peaces of wood floated, half of theme sinked.
Workin for someone, completed a cold plunge using the leftover ipe they had from their back deck...
Kept the scraps for knife handles...
This sh*t is unbelievable
Thanks for your comment about wax on the ends, I've been looking for the answer to that issue!
Anchor seal is a good brand name
You can basically fill the flutes of a bit and...best stop and clear the flutes! This is crazy hard wood! I am building a lap steel with this. It will require a stand!!
Yeah, until you work with it you don't realize how tough and heavy it is!
Sorry to break it to you guys. but IPE is no longer available that was coming from mature trees that's over 35 years old but are coming from younger trees, so what happens is the wood will last long but not as long but will also twist and break out fasteners, also the lumber companies are milling other unstable lumber and calling it IPE.
Reference - I built with IPE for 15 years, and became an importer also
Well, this is true of all wood species. The stable, old growth stuff is long gone and the things our ancestors created with wood we can no longer reliably do. That doesn't mean that Ipe can't be used anymore, but it may mean more caution in sourcing it.
@@enduringcharm exactly, make sure its kd and clear grade
Black Locust is a viable option to IPE if you don't need long lengths and don't mind a few knots.
Locust is a hardy wood but it is only available in very limited areas. And, I would not put it in the same category as Ipe in terms of it's structural properties or it's aesthetic qualities.
@@enduringcharm It's available in large quantities from me, here in Southern WV. I'm getting ready to replace a Ipe boardwalk that is only 25 years old with Black Locust. Show me documentation that Ipe can even last 50 years in ground contact. Locust can last over 100 years in ground contact. And IPE is not sustainable at all. FSC is a fruad and Ipe you are using could be 2000 year old wood. Not sustainable at all. Personally, I think Locust is a lot more attractive than IPE and it has the highest beam strength of all US hardwoods.
@@ekimosurac1 I see you are responding to an old comment of mine. I'm not knocking black locust if that's what you like and it's available near you. It looks like you happen to live near where that tree grows natively. For most of the US, black locust decking is not readily available. Ipe may also be difficult to find now, but it has a better distribution channel. Hopefully you are not putting any type of decking in ground contact, though. When I build decks, porches or other exterior wood structures, no wood is in ground contact at all. Black locust looks much like pine decking with pronounced grain pattern. Ipe is a much more refined look, which appeals to many. Finally, sustainability is poor for virtually all commercially sold woods today. I can only build with what I can buy. If you didn't see it, take a look at my recent review of a new thermally modified decking product which looks great and which may provide a more sustainable resource: th-cam.com/video/tHItszOLE20/w-d-xo.html
Thanks John. Post us a picture of you Adirondack chairs you made. Would love to see the weathered look of Ipe.
YT doesn't allow photos, unfortunately, but maybe I'll do a future video on how to build the chairs and include it then.
@@enduringcharm You can always post to Imgur and link it in the description... it would be very interesting to see thanks for the video!
Liked your video. We would mention the color of Ipe can be very different. That pieces color is certainly more common though.
Yes, good point. Color can vary and if you will not be letting the wood age to gray, then you'll want to make certain you have a good match across all the decking.
I have a new deck that is 8' above grade, so I have plenty of cross ventilation. Deck is 16' x 30 ' with the joists running with the 16' dimension. I live in central Massachusetts so we have a full four season climate. I have a few questions.
1) Is 1" x 6" thick enough to avoid cupping? Is it worth going to 1" x 6" plus? Or should I go to 5/4" x 6"?
2) I'm going to let it weather to a silvery gray. Should I seal the decking before I install it? If yes, do I have to seal it on all four sides?
3) I want to use a hidden fastener system. Any suggestions?
Cupping is a non issue. 1x Ipe will span 16 inch centers and 5/4 will span 24 inch centers. Other than that it's an aesthetic choice. If you want to let it weather you can just leave it, but you MUST seal the ends with wax after you make a cut. Otherwise, you'll get cracks and checking on the end. Don't be sloppy with the wax, or it will show on the surface after installation. Most Ipe is now available pre-grooved on the edges for several brands of hidden fastener systems. The clip systems all work essentially the same way, so whatever you can buy locally is likely fine. Or, you can use stainless screws and Ipe plugs glued in with gorilla glue or similar. That's what I did on my own deck 15 or so years ago before hidden fasteners were available.
excelent wood. You should also try Brauna, cumaru, sucupira, tatajuba...cheers
We have an Ipe deck. It is so much more beautiful than any cedar or other non-hardwood, as it doesn't ever look dried out, and splintery. BUT, it is in no way, shape, or form, easier. If you let it gray, maybe, but if you don't like a weathered looking deck, it is not easy.
Yeah, if you try to maintain the original cinnamon red color, it will be an annual battle against the UV rays of the sun. There are many oils or finishes you can use, but those with UV protection in the formula will have the most success. And you may need to strip off one product to use another. If you allow the wood to weather to a silver-gray, there will be very little maintenance other than an occasional wash or keeping mildew at bay in shaded areas.
Must be great firewood if it's that dense. Think I'll get me a few chords for the winter.
I've actually tried to burn some scraps out of curiosity. It burns about as well as mild steel! If you need to fire-proof your deck, this is the decking for you!
Great Video with lots of info . Thanks so Much ! Will the original color come back if planed ie. repurposing boards that have been used for decking. or does the natural aging outdoors go all through the wood? Thinking about making fretboards but doing the due diligence first .
Yes, the color will come back if you remove the weathered surface. How far that layer goes will vary. I'm not convinced Ipe would be the best wood for fretboards, though. It's difficult to work due to the density. For fine or delicate fret inlays or for gluing to the neck it might be more pain than it is worth.
@@enduringcharm
Thanks I am getting a sample for cheap to work with and I will let ya know how all that works out.
Absolutely the best wood in the world
Have book looking into using this for some large built in planters in the front yard but I'm in Vegas and temps will get over 120º how will this fair over redwood?
Using Ipe for planters is probably overkill. Ipe will far outlast redwood, however, and it is many times stronger too. Whatever wood you choose for a planter, the best practice is to avoid direct contact with the soil. You can use plastic liners or other means to separate the soil from the wood, but the more opportunity you give the wood to dry out and stay dry, the longer it will last. If direct soil contact cannot be avoided you are better off either with ground-contact rate pressure treated lumber or a composite material.
wear a mask when cutting this wood in an enclosed area. The sawdust is extremely fine.
Very helpful video. Thanks for the advice. Would applying lacquer help seal the dark brown color for perpetuity?
Ipe is very tricky to finish. In a deck situation it's a matter of keeping UV rays at bay to protect the color. That can be done with various treated oils applied regularly. For a furniture application ipe is a lot like teak in that it's somewhat oily and may not take finishes well. There are many other woods I would consider before using ipe for furniture, other than as an accent perhaps.
I'll bet that would make one hell of subwoofer box!
I’m making a garage door with a pine frame (and metal struts), and I’m thinking about attaching Ipe on the exposed side. Do you think it’s too heavy for that application?
Yes, I do! Ipe is insanely dense. That density makes it some of the toughest and strongest wood on the planet, but the price is weight. If this is an overhead garage door you are making I can't imagine the size of the springs needed. If you want the look of Ipe there are other woods you could try and various stains/paints you could use instead. Mahogany, teak, and Spanish cedar come to mind as alternatives.
enduringcharm good to know, thanks for the reply!
Excellent content - so much info. Thank you!
Makes nice furniture too but have to be attentive about glueing oily wood. Sharp joints but dull steel bits, go carbide.
Thanks for the informative video. Would you recommend it for exterior window frames?
No, and I also responded to your question in the window video. Ipe just poses too many working and finishing issues to be useful as a window material, plus it's very expensive.
This is amazing info. Is there a good decking hardwood to replace my pressure treated pine boards that is a little easier to work with? Maybe between pine and this one? Not composite though. Plus i wonder if because the joists are pine, would the hardwood boards stay attached? Thanks very much
There's not an easy answer. For those who prefer actual wood over composite materials, choices are slim these days. Part of it is that the market has moved on to composites, which offer bigger profits to manufacturers, the promise (but not always reality) of being maintenance free, and for carpenters the advantage of being uniform and predictable. Another part of it is that wood, in general, has become much lower in quality. Modern wood is fast-growth stock, which is less stable, has less concentration of rot-resistant chemicals, and which has unattractive appearance. Cedar decks used to be common. Modern cedar, however, is not rot resistant because the trees are cut down too early and the chemicals which make cedar rot resistant don't have enough time to concentrate in the heartwood. Same for mahogany. In some areas of New England vertical grain fir has been used for decking for centuries, but tight, vertical grain fir is just a memory now. Black locust has been used in some areas of the country, but that is very regional. for tropical hardwoods there is ipe, tigerwood, and cumaru. Some of this comes from large, old-growth timber some does not. It is a niche market, though, so expense is high. Pressure treated pine still exists, but the quality is horrendous. Carpenters rush to get it installed before it warps too much to BE installed. So, for a wood deck today it's really one of the tropical hardwoods for a high-end deck, or pressure treated pine for a deck that will last a few years.
As far as the joists, pressure treated pin is still the overwhelming choice and not a problem to mix with other woods. However, we do a lot more with flashing and protection today than was done decades ago.
enduringcharm thank you very much! Ive been hearing that pressure treated isn’t what it used to be. My deck is 25 years old. 30 in one section. Maybe i should just have it sanded The problem is that many of the screws have rusted and broken into the joists below but maybe a professional can deal with that.
With a deck that old you should also consider the state of the framing. Installing an expensive decking like Ipe over framing that is likely in poor condition is not a great idea since the decking would outlast the framing. Your best choices are probably either repairing the existing decking where needed and staining or replacing all of the decking with new pressure treated. Either way, you should set your expectations that the deck is on borrowed time. Unless the original builder took extraordinary precautions, the framing itself will need attention or complete replacement at that age. Maybe you can get another five years out of it, but at some point it will be more trouble than it's worth.
I am thinking of using this wood for a urn. Decay resistant and bug resistant. Very nice grain and color. What about water resistant? Do you have an opinion?
I'd advise you to look elsewhere. As far as woodworking I'd say Ipe could be used well in terms of accents or inlays and that kind of thing. To build entire items from Ipe I think you'll find it annoying to work with and not worth the effort. It's great for decks and outdoor projects, less so for fine woodworking. There are other tropical hardwoods and standard hardwoods that are easier to work and provide similar appearance.
helpful video, thank you
Great video. How good is IPE for ground level decking?
It holds up well under pretty much any condition, but you have to pay attention to detail during installation.
Thanks for the info, excellent. Wondering if you’re aware of any fasteners to attach Ipe to lightweight galvinized steel (LGS) joists? Similar to Trex elevations but way less expensive. Instead of pressure treated lumber. I’m trying to avoid using PT treated lumber so it doesn’t bow/warp/twist making the Ipe investment look bad.
Honestly, I think pressure treated is fine if done well. The Ipe can span greater distances, and I've done ipe decks with joists on 16 inch centers but fasteners on 32 inch centers. The non-fastened joist gets 3M 5200 sealant on top to help bridge any gap. Or, just expand the joist spacing. I'm not aware of any metal joist fastener for Ipe specifically. The Ipe is quite stable as long as you seal the cuts and build a decent frame.
Thanks for the info. Would you suggest having doors made of Ipe? I live on the ocean and looking for a wood that would not expand too much.
No, I wouldn't recommend Ipe for that. The weight alone would be problematic. This stuff weighs a TON! As an accent wood in a door, perhaps, but not the main members. The style of door has a lot to do with management of expansion and contraction, more than the species of wood. Doors made of solid wood planks in parallel will expand and contract much more than a door made with panels, rails and stiles. If you've had issues with seasonal movement before, I'd recommend a door style with multiple panels that allow expansion and contraction without changing the overall width much. Interior doors can be painted to slow the transfer of moisture that results in movement. Door stops can be made thicker so that a larger gap between the door and frame is acceptable.
@@enduringcharm thanks for the prompt informative response! 🙏🏾
Hi sir Is an Ipe deck fine for Michigan weather, is 32k a reasonable price for a 16x20 ipe deck? Thank you.
Ipe should hold up just fine in Michigan weather. Here in Jersey we have winters that get to single digit temps with snow, and we have summers with high 90 temps and crazy humidity. Ipe does well in it all. As for the cost of a deck, that's impossible to say given all the variables involved, as well as regional differences in costs. I will say that if you are going to use Ipe for the decking, you should makes sure all the other details are designed for longevity. That means stainless steel fasteners, flashing over the tops of joists, deep footings, strong blocking for railing posts, and similar details to make the deck strong and weatherproof. You should also make sure your contractor understands how to work with Ipe as far as sealing/waxing fresh cuts, predrilling holes, getting spans right, etc.
You keep saying the weight and difficulty installing is a negative. Any work done properly is more trouble than just throwing something down in a hurry. Frankly, I don't see any negatives. If you put down a good Ipe, or any other similar, quality tropical hardwood, properly you will save so much time, effort and cost in the long run because you won't be replacing it for forty years. I clean my deck once a year, re-sand it and re-oil it every two to three years and it looks the same as when it was installed ten years ago.
I don't disagree--that's why I have Ipe on my own deck! But, people should know what they are getting into if they try it.
Superb content, thank you...
Good info I have never worked with it before doesn't seem to be to popular here in my area. The cabinet maker in me is thinking that would be a good material for wood counter tops.
I don't know about countertops. Fitting multiple boards tightly together might be difficult due to the machining issues. You'd kill your jointer knives! And gluing with typical wood glues like Titebond might be sketchy as well. I've never tried it, though. I saved a bunch of scraps over the years but I never figured out what to do with them yet!
Thanks for the great explanation!
I found a couple of pices of thia ipe at my parents house never knew what it was till today it was really hard to cut and the 4 foot pices were heavy
Excellent video! Thank you!
Great video. Do you know of some reputable sellers of ipe? Thanks
You may be able to get it locally at a decent lumberyard. However, with covid the supply chain is really messed up and I'm not sure what you'll find this spring.
I too have leftover Ipe from my deck and really want to make Ipe chairs. I don't want your plans...I just want to know what you learned. Did you use pocket holes? How did you rip the deck boards (i don't have a table saw)? How did you make the curve cuts? When you glue Ipe, is the glue enough to seal the ends?
I have two Ipe adirondack style chairs on my deck I made 10-15 years ago. I've lost count. I used various stainless steel screws and stainless bolts for the joinery. The screws were covered with Ipe plugs. They weigh a ton and never move even in the worst winds! Ripping the deck boards can be done with a table saw or with a circular saw. My video on a circular saw jig might be helpful to you. Curved cuts can be made with a jigsaw and sharp blade. Screw and bolt holes are pre-drilled. You can work Ipe the same way as other hardwoods, it just takes a little more effort and power, as well as time.
can you use regular spruce pressure treat under this stuff as a decking surface material
Do you mean pressure treated pine (ACQ) as framing material? Yes, you can, although you should take care in the flashing and choice of fasteners so that the framing lasts as long as the Ipe.
Do you have to wax coat the ends on the Adirondack furniture as well?
That's a good question. Really any cut needs to be protected, either with wax or another method. To be clear, it's the immediate period of the cut when checking or cracks can appear. Once the wood has stabilized you no longer need to worry. The wax does eventually wear off if kept outdoors. So, for a chair or piece of furniture you might be willing to take a little more risk since it's only a small board that could be replaced if need be. On a deck it's a bigger deal. You may be able make cuts for the chair and avoid the wax as long as you keep the parts or the chair out of the sun or high heat for a few days or a week. Or, if you are going to stain or oil the chair, you could do that right after the cut or the router pass.
You sound like Joe Pesci!🤠 Question: Do you think it would make a good kitchen countertop or a cutting board? Thanks!
It makes for good decking but for a countertop it would be difficult to make and to maintain. As a cutting board the fuzzy grain would end up in food. Other woods, such as Maple, are far superior for this kind of application even thought they may look different.
enduringcharm Thanks... just trying to come up with an exotic wood cutting board!
Is Ipe cheaper than composite wood?
There are a million composite decking products now, and they span a wide range of price and quality. Ipe is likely going to be comparable to a high-end composite decking.
Did you mean to say that it turns grey in 10 years? You said it will turn grey in a year or two, is that correct?
How long it takes to turn gray depends on environmental factors like how much sun it gets in a day and even where you are located geographically. If you've ever visited shore areas you know the decks and siding there turn gray very quickly, perhaps due to the salt air and sunshine. Inland areas with thick trees will take a lot longer. But in most areas I do think you'll see the graying happen in a year or two. There is a transitional phase, of course, where there is some gray and some brown.
How to get rid of grey color? What is UV protectant? I used IPE oil, but it turns grey within a month.
Once the wood surface has turned silver/gray, the only way to restore the reddish brown color would be sanding. If you want to keep the red/brown color you need to treat with a sealer that contains UV (ultraviolet) protection. That will prevent the wood from oxidizing in the sun. Still, you'll need to treat regularly to keep the color.
enduringcharm sandeded, one year Powerwash, used panafin cleaners, used cabot, panafin, ipe oil... everything resulted to same grey. It is in the hot sun. Do you recommend any uv oil?
Well, some of the products you mentioned have worked for others, and another product is made by Armstrong-Clark (www.armstrongclarkstain.com/). I don't know what might be available in your area. In any case, at this point you'll need to clean and sand to get rid of all the old product on the deck. A commercial orbital floor sander can be used and there is little danger of gouging the wood since it is so dense. Then pick your product and set your expectations that you'll need to recoat often, perhaps two or three times a year depending on where you live and your sun exposure. Or, let it go gray and just leave it.
@@alkadeshmukh2404 was it the red label penofin?
Use the brown label Penofin with the Brazilian rosewood oil.
Can you use it as indoor flooring?
It's really not a good candidate for that. It is sold as decking and does not come in tongue and groove flooring profiles as far as I know.
Any online retailers you recommend?
Sorry, I've got nothing for you. My advice would be to try to find a local lumberyard who will help first. You might pay a little more, but you'll also get scheduled delivery, you may be able to see the wood before you buy, and you'll have a place to return any defective boards. These days I have to buy a lot of things online, sight unseen--that's just the way it is now. However, a majority of the time I also have problems with those online purchases. Delivery scheduling is a nightmare, shipping damage is common, the items are not what they were advertised to be, etc. With the cost of Ipe, I'd rather be able to see and touch it first if possible.
Do you think this would be a good product for a Bocce court wall base? as a court base it would be in ground contact, and have the bocce balls banging against it.
I had too look up what a bocce court looks like! I know nothing about the game. As far as the ipe, it would certainly take the abuse of the balls as well or better than any other wood. However, no wood is ideal for ground contact. Pressure treated wood rated for ground contact is your best chance at avoiding rot, and drainage underneath in the form of sand or gravel will help a lot. If wood is your material of choice, you might consider installing a base layer of pressure treated wood bedded in gravel, then using ipe on top of that where it shows.
@@enduringcharm great information, Thank you
Thank you for your post, very educational.
I have a 4”x4”stainless steel structure frame and I want to mount Ipe wood onto it (fir aesthetics.)
Can Ipe be glued onto stainless steel, if so, what type of glue do you recommend?
(Screwing may not be an option.)
I doubt that would last long. I have glued ipe to ipe with polyurethane glue. That's how I've glued in screw plugs and it has held over years. I've also glued down Ipe to pressure treated joists using 3m 5200 Marine Adhesive, and that has held. But gluing any wood to metal is asking a lot, plus Ipe is an oily kind of wood. Can you screw from below and use adhesive? Some kind of mechanical fastener would really help the adhesive hold.
Thanks. I'm writing an estimate for 621 linear feet of dive board for a pool using Ipe. This helped.
Glad it helped!
I have made my whole kitchen with if. After 5 years still superbe . Naturally some dents (children, dogs,pots...) but still superbe
Wow, that's the first I've heard of somebody making cabinets with Ipe!
Correction : just the floor !;)
You have no idea how heavy this wood is and it's hard as a rock. Very tough to work with but it will last you 50 years.
Using a biscuit cutter and the ipe clips works good. You don't have to use so many plugs...
Many of the manufacturers now provide the deck boards with pre-cut grooves, so you don't even need the biscuit cutter for the clips.
@@enduringcharm that's helpful and productive depending on your layout. That would save a ton of time! Is it basically like a t&g female groove on both sides or what?
i like this ipe product, i think it looks cool
Will a stripper ruin this wood? We had our Ipe deck stripped and power washed and its rough and looks horrible.
I'm not a fan of power washing n the first place. After power washing Ipe with an aggressive tip you may find it becomes fuzzy and ragged looking. That's the very fine wood fibers being torn up. Once damaged all you can do is dry sand it with a floor sander or else wait it out until time and wear makes the finish smooth again. Power washing will also damage other wood species, but the damage appears differently--the grain of pine becomes more pronounced, for example.
Yes a stripper is a bad idea and completely unnecessary. Strippers are made to remove top coat products like water sealers that flake and peel off on softwoods. We recommend you use DeckWise Cleaner and brightener and the Ipe Oil. You might need to sand the deck though now that it had a stripper applied to it.
You must clean it (don't use a power washer) with a good deck cleaner, then sand it (I do it by hand held RO sander which takes a little more time but the results are excellent) and put a coat of Ipe Oil on it. Don't neglect to remove the excess after about 30 minutes by using a cloth to rub it out. I use 120 and then 220 for a smooth finish. I do this once every three years and just clean once or twice a year in the interim. Results in a beautiful surface that is soft for bare feet.
You say it correctly.
Would you make a groove and tong deck with it ?
A tongue and groove deck is not a great idea anyway, since it traps water and debris instead of allowing it through the slots. On a covered porch it would be okay, but I would look for pre-milled stock rather than try and make it in my shop.
Double female groove is reccomended ising a hiddens fasten system
Roberts Shoal
Ipe (E-peh) is the correct pronunciation period... its a Brazilian wood pronounce it like they do.
Chase Rayfield yes sir Chase! We will follow your grammatical Godness, sir.
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