So you pick out the darkest most perverse Calvinist heresy and set that up as an example of Christianity? Really?... Talk about a persecution complex indeed. "He created everything so that it might continue to exist, and everything He created is wholesome and good. There is no deadly poison in them. No, death does not rule this world" (Wisdom 1)
@@jimd6641 Perfect. Y'know, one day Tito Puente will be dead and you will say "Oh yes I've been listening to his work for years". I have watched Stripes wat too much.
@@andrewferg8737 I know too much about persecution. I honestly do. It wasn't Agnostics, Atheists or Devil Worshippers who burned down my home. It was decent Christian people who suddenly took exception to me marrying a Hindu lady. If you believe in miracles, then it was a miracle that wife, children and I got out. And do not waste your time with bible quotes. Your magical incantations serve no useful purpose. "...you incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason". Job 2:3 seems more appropriate.
@@tomsenior7405 Ha ha! I wondered if anyone would catch the reference to Stripes! I too, have wasted a lot of time watching that movie, but it's funny every time.
When our pastor died suddenly of a brain aneurysm in his early 40s-leaving a wife and two small children behind, mind you-John MacArthur implied heavily that God struck him down because he was teaching blasphemous theology (I was raised in Pentecostalism, I believe the words he used were “God does not tolerate false teachers” or something like that). I never forgot that, even as a small child I found the cruelty baffling.
@@Justas399 As an ex-evangelical turned atheist, I find that the fact that bad things happen just because they do is such a relief, rather than thinking that a supposedly all-loving God made them happen.
@@mikenash7049 Such when bad things happen to people all you can tell them is to suck it up. Here is something else your atheism leads to; “In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” ― Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
It's crazy how that guy describes the utter disdain Scripture has for Humanity as something to be proud of. It seems insane to think that all humans without exception are all born so irreparably broken, that we can never be deserving of anything other than eternal torment. I find it upsetting that such a view has barely any pushback publicly.
It really is a striking contrast to the "God loves us so much" fluff that most modern Christians espouse. I remember being and a service and singing 'love songs' to God and talking about how do deepen our 'relationship' with him even those we don't deserve his love. I couldn't help but think 'no wonder so many relationships are f'ed up'
@@leob3447. That’s exactly the point. How can we truly love God if we don’t need anything from him? We love God because he first loved us. And his love is significant because he loved us even when we did not deserve his love. Laying down your life for a good friend is commendable. What’s much more commendable, however is laying down your life for a stranger, or even an enemy.
@@bruotsynh3992 What would that say about a person who created someone else and didn't love them? We didn't ask to be created and since he actually designed us, what kind of sick love is it that he tells us he loves us even though we don't deserve it? The thing is, I have had so many people try to tell me how much god loves me - but I haven't heard a single thing from him. Nada, zero, zilch, despite decades of prayer. It's almost like he doesn't really exist. When humans model their love of the the god of the bible - we get the dysfunctional relationships that fill society.
@@leob3447 You get complete dysfunction when atheism/humanism is in control. The christian family is the far more ideal family. Non-christians barely do family.
Despicable. God creates people broken, tells them they are broken, keeps them in horrible situations, does not help them, requires them to worship him or he will burn them in hell forever. What a loving relationship.
From a fellow ex-fundie: keep up the great work Brother. Seems like a previous lifetime now, but can't believe I actually listened to MacArthur back in the day. But I'll give him this: unlike so many Christian leaders who twist the Book to the times, Mac is gutsy enough to stick with the Book and to keep preaching blood atonement, hell, subordination of women, sinfulness of being gay, etc. Thankfully, in the long run he and his type will die off because, as humankind progresses, these Iron Age ideas will naturally lose their relevance and appeal, and gradually fade away. Can't happen too soon.
@@MindShift-Brandon It will never truly go away. Just like the legacy of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany or white supremacy in US never truly goes away. BUT we can ameliorate it, and cause it's influence to be negligible. Sadly, that's not where we are yet at least in the States. It's more like Iraq or Syria, with a huge religious minority persecuting the other minority groups. Only difference is that it isn't hot warfare yet.
It seems strange that after 35 years of being an excommunicated Mormon that when someone says that "the depravity of man" is a fair representation of the NT, I would still bristle. "That's not what it says at all!" Of course, it is what it says if you were trained to put those verses front and center. I was trained to put other verses front and center. Both are "fair" representations, because like most holy books, the Bible is a Rorschach test. But, the enculturation is "strong with this one." Darth Vader
You couldn't be more correct Brandon. Christians LOVE the idea that they are persecuted. I use to, and most/many of my Christian friends and relations loved it too.
Persecution works to keep people in the cult, as that is where they get their affirmations. MacArthur knows how to use his rhetoric to keep the sheeple paying his salary.
The idea of man being totally depraved suggests that God was not very good at the creation business. He makes people bad and then punishes them for being bad. If God acted like any modern business he would set up a feedback loop and work out how things were going. In those circumstances he might think why am I making people bad and then punishing them for eternity? What was the point of the creation process? If I did nothing would it not be better than this crazy mess?
I was raised in a jewish home. I am not religious anymore. I watch your videos to know how to answer the Christian with his own book(New Testament). I never knew how lucky I was to be raised in a home free from fears of hell and other Christian doctrines. I see how much pain is caused when people deconvert caused by fear.
Same here. Raised in a Catholic home and this fear of hell was not drilled into me, only heard it from other evangelicals; JW being the main culprits. It's kind of why I hated evangelicals when I was religious. Always selling fear, branding everything a "sin"
I've always wondered why a supreme being would want, need and or demand worship in the first place. Sounds like that is born of insecurity, human insecurity.
to answer my previous question in a previous post, i copy pasted this response from below, yes, christians love having low self esteem, it's sick. i told him to seek help: "In fact, self esteem is more damaging than anything. Because you’re putting your confidence in yourself and find yourself inevitably failing. What do you have left to look at then? But a Christian knows that we have a sinful flesh and are prone to failure, but Christ redeems us regardless and calls us his perfect children."
The theology fits my own experience perfectly. I spent years exploring various religions, trying to find a path to God without any success. Eventually I picked up a Bible and began to read the New Testament..The realisation that God had opened a portal in to this presence at Calvary , and that I had to do nothing but walk through changed my life. Jesus did what I could never have done for myself. The BIble does not say that God did this in order to be worshipped. It was an act of love. And, no, I do not regard myself as a loser. On the contrary, if we share in Christ's victory we are winners now and for eternity.
Chris, that is not the gospel message at all. The message is you are a loser who must be saved. The reasoning behind Jesus sacrifice doesn't make sense.
Great video. Been a non Christian for few months now. Would push back on the idea the Bible “teaches” original sin though. The “Bible” as you know, is not one book. There are a few passages in Paul which might reflect something called “original sin” with a strong emphasis on a depraved nature and the election of God. But this reflects the apocalyptic sectarianism of the day in Judaism. In the Old Testament, people are frequently assumed to be righteous and upstanding before God regularly, and there’s a strong emphasis on deeds and doing good works in the Synoptic gospels, the wisdom literature, and the prophets. The Pentateuch also knows nothing of humans being “totally depraved.”
Oh my word finally some review of John MacArthur I had his Bible threw it away now. I was following them all John, Paul Washer, Steven Lawson, the Puritans, Justin Pieters, So Paul Washer is worse
Christianity is built on hopelessness and pity. I find the people who gravitate toward Christianity to be broken by life's experiences. So, of course they get relief by assuring themselves that all people are broken. "It's not just me. It's everyone." How comforting it must be to see everyone else's faults, rather than do something about your own. Drug and alcohol abuse and being molested by a family member are the two most common "faults" in born again Christians. Broken people need help. God is not help...he is a shoulder to cry on,, nothing more.
2nd person to post this about people’s hero JM. “We lose, get that, we lose!” - John MacArthur 2023 statement about his fellow rapture/ Israel-Ishmael/ Dispensationalism loser, pessimistic,defeating, fatalistic theology! Not consistent with God Jesus Christ Law/Word the Bible!
I can't think of a single Christian leader that is not a terrible person. Edit: Like you said in the video, Christian leaders claim that their religion is unique because it is not based on works . Matthew 5:20 debunks that by Jesus saying that, "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."
Righteousness comes through faith in Christ as a gift, not by works through the law. "and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith" Philippians 3:9
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 And earlier in Matthew 5:18 Jesus says, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Then it talks about having to be more righteous then the scribes and pharisees, and this is in regards to following the Law since it is mentioned right before this. It was only later that Paul disagreed with Jesus and said the Law no longer mattered. This disagreement is pointless anyways given that Jesus was a false prophet and Paul was a follower of this false prophet and never even met him. The fact that Paul disagrees with Jesus is just hilarious.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 I am a former Christian. I find it hilarious you don't have a response to that. Or when Christians say the Bible doesn't actually mean what it says it means.
@@BluStarGalaxy Jesus and Paul agree, we are saved through faith and baptism. 😊 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:5-8 "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13 "But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:4-7 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16
Idk, as a somewhat freshly minted determinist, I'm finding myself agreeing more with the Calvinist than I did as a Calvinist, but I'd still see these philosophies as faulty and detrimental of the public good.
No i get it. Within the possible theological philosophies, calvinism is the one that makes the most sense no matter how evil that would make god. Thankfully he doesnt exist
This kind of persecution complex has been used throughout most of Christianity and was used most effectively by a self proclaimed Austrian prophet in the 1930s to cause the largest genocide since the flood.
This persecution complex especially confuses me in the context of white evangelicalism which doesnt acknowledge any sort of systemic racism buta asserts systemic bias against christians. As a black evangelical, I've sat in church services where my black pastors have lectured thier predominately black congregation about not being a victum because of the color of our skin but then in the same message expressing that we are actually victims because we are christians. So we're we traded black victimhood for christian victimhood? Also what they consider to be persecution is ridiculous. If you preach about faith leaders who were ripped apart by lions being "forced" to take a fair amount of someone's money who you dont agree with for a job you would have done anyway isnt oppression. It's a simple transaction
"He created everything so that it might continue to exist, and everything He created is wholesome and good. There is no deadly poison in them. No, death does not rule this world" (Wisdom 1)
Oh and one more thing I would consider myself more of a fundamentalist. With that said I also don't think John MacArthur is that great of a person. In some ways I think he's smart AF, but I think he misses the mark more than he doesn't
Romans 1:20 states no matter where you're born, that God will reveal himself through nature. In another video of yours you accuse Christianity is straight-up because they they had concepts that predated stories, wonders, concepts and even genealogies similar to Christianity. By that measure would you said that fifteenth-century Sikhism, and pure land Buddhist are ripping off Christianity? You go back to sometimes under the right conditions you can be saved. I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. I understand that there are several denominations, I'm not sure if there's as many as you say there are, but as a faith we have a lot of differing opinions, but you also cite the source material quite a bit, (I think that's why I'm attracted to your channel) so something tells me that at the end of the day you would use scripture for your final conclusion of true beliefs. ( Not trying to make assumptions) scripture seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. Jesus didn't say say a little prayer and you were golden. Jesus said follow me, he said seek me first, he said love God with your heart, soul and mind and the rest would take care of itself. To be honest with you when I hear a pastor teach end-times as a Christian I find it very cringe, because Jesus was very clear that we're not supposed to worry about when, we're just supposed to be ready. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to pick your brain. My denominational comment it's more geared towards you because you most likely rough with a specific denomination and you would probably still read scriptures to that lens, so knowing things like what denomination you grew up in actually helps me understand where you're coming from. I'm genuinely curious about where your views, it seems like a lot of Internet atheist not all are more angry and less informed than you are. Please don't let me offend you with my questions
I’ve spoken to so many Christian’s who denounce churches like the Westboro Baptist Church, claiming that “not ALL Christian’s” are like that. What they don’t understand is that the WBC is following their holy book closer to what it actually says. Everyone makes up their own version of their religion. This is based on what THEY think is morale/good/bad, etc. The more secular morality is applied to religion, the further away from the disgusting origins you get. Hmmmm……seems like peoples beliefs are influenced by the time period they’re in, where they were born, to whom they were born and who they associate with.
Religion evolves to adapt to changing social environment. The religious subspecies that resist change shrink and get marginalized by the wider society. 😊
Back around the time following Christ there where different schools of though as to what the atonement means exactly. Interpretations of universalism, hell fire, no hell have been around because thinking people also have differing views. So no, there is no one way that has always existed to interpret it. Even the apostles struggled to understand how to teach certain things. To say there is clearly one way the Bible teaches something and every body should know is false.
John really helped me to believe that I'm not good enough to be garbage. I've got his books and study bible. It was very effective, I became suicidal. Good times, good times. He's a total Zero. So glad I now believe in reality.
All humans are intrinsically valuable because we are made in the image of God. All life has value because value is grounded in God and he said it is good. Love is grounded in God. I'm sorry to hear your experience from such negative preaching. We love because God first loved us. Nothing can change that. The whole point of what Christ did was to cleanse us of the shame, and to see our worth and make a new covanent in his blood. He did it all. Just relax and love others. He's got this.That is the joy of the Lord.
It's no wonder I was always depressed and even went to the psych ward a few years ago. After 2 years of deconstructing it's amazing how original sin is so harmful. I used to listen to JM's radio program Grace To You as a kid and remember total depravity frequently being assumed. One of my favorite songs at the time was from Petra called "Without Him we can do nothing." Textbook Stockholm Syndrome. Thank you for posting this.
Thank you for sharing. This is exactly what i was talking about and so many think im exaggerating or lying. You are the proof and there are millions like us.
Same!!!!! Islam was driving me literally crazy. I legit thought about committing myself because of the extreme anxiety. I used to cry on my bed with chest pains because I couldn't fathom religion and feeling extremely guilty for my feelings.
Christians *have* to believe that Christianity is unique in order to maintain their worldview but anybody who studied theology knows for a fact that isn’t true. That’s why I have more respect for the average Christian than I do for Christian scholars and educated apologists The average Christian most likely never had to confront the inherent flaws and contradictions in their beliefs but the Christian scholar definitely has and they *choose* to ignore contradictory evidence and lie to themselves and other people about it. Ignorance isn’t inherently wrong but dishonesty is
No the scholars are not lying, they admit that there is mystery and they can't possibly know it all but the evidence has lead them there. What a strange way to describe scholars. Science is full of contradictions, does that make you stop believing in science? No, it means you don't know everything!
@@gy5240 this is a false equivalence. Science is a tool to FIND answers religion is saying it HAS the answers. Science contradicting itself isn’t a problem because it’s entire purpose is to learn both from our success and our failure by applying new information to our understanding of the world when it’s available and discarding old information that we’ve proved wrong whereas religion contradicting itself disproves the claim that it’s the work of a perfect and infallible being
Wow - he refers to his flock as “eternal losers” and they keep going back! What a message. No judgment from me though… I used to believe this stuff with all my heart! 😢
I like how they put a sweet and emotional music in the background while telling to the listener that he/she is helpless, hopeless, an eternal loser and totally depraved... no hate is quite like christian love.
@@MindShift-Brandon Yeah, being told nearly every week that you are a sinner and are going to hell unless God saves you and there is nothing you can do about it because He will only save the "elect" really messes with you when you are a kid even when you pray "the sinner's prayer."
The analogy of a starved man being given a crumb was perfect, and you are absolutely right. This type of religious ideology is Stockholm Syndrome at its finest and through its practice your demonstrably devaluing the human spirit, while though flawed, like everything else in the world holds amazing beauty.
John MacArthur causes PTSD flashbacks for me. I spent a year and a half going to his church and graduated from his Bible college in 1988. So glad I escaped from his cult..... in 1992. I used to think he was the best...I lost a lot of respect for him while attending his church and Bible college, mostly because I was actually learning to think critically and started seeing through the fraud of Christianity while I was under his teaching. He sounds exactly the same way he did 30 years ago. Hasn't't grow a bit. A brainwashed zombie. Sad, really.
Thanks Brandon…great video! And to think I use to believe those same evil teachings blows my mind! I was always depressed and full of anxiety and constant fear to the point when I was mentally ill and ended up in psychiatric wards numerous times…I’m so grateful to be out of all that insanity! Those kinds of teachings are dangerous and make me sick! 🤮🤮🤮🤮
I think this type of preaching had a massively strong effect on me growing up. The mental damage that it does to be told over and over again that you are worthless and there’s nothing you can do about it. It has directly correlated to my OCD and anxiety.
That’s only one part of it. You are unable to do anything on your own (correct). But this is paired with the fact that Jesus came out of his free will you love you and make you whole and worthwhile. In fact, self esteem is more damaging than anything. Because you’re putting your confidence in yourself and find yourself inevitably failing. What do you have left to look at then? But a Christian knows that we have a sinful flesh and are prone to failure, but Christ redeems us regardless and calls us his perfect children.
See, you're mentally ill, bruotysyn., YOU have low self esteem and hate yourself, but that doesn't mean the rest of us do. Your god is just stupid if it made you so poorly. Why don't you theists ever make the connection? But seriously, you're mentally ill, you need therapy, and not from a Christian minister. Keep your hatred to yourself, and please, for the love of god, just go away... @@bruotsynh3992
The only positive thing I can think of is John MacArthur helping me out of Pentecostalism with his book, Charismatic Chaos. I am embarrassed to admit that back in the day I faithfully listened to his radio show 5 nights a week,
christianity is based on the filthy concept of 'original sin' and the myth of 'free will' otherwise the fable of the christ figure is meaningless. this unique ill relation is reminiscent of the stockholm syndrome where victims are convinced of their captors/abusers love.
Thoroughly enjoy your content. I think you communicate very well and suspect that many folks who enjoy the MythVision channel would as well. Hope that you will contact Derek and see if he would introduce you to his subscribers (he may be around 100k subscribers) or even include you in some of his live round table discussions.
I attended the college where MacArthur used to be the president, went to his church for four years while there, and also grew up in another church that utilized a lot of his books and really looked up to him. One thing I can say in his favor is that in person, he's very warm and compassionate. On the other hand, during the pandemic he flat-out told his congregation that there was no pandemic, and backed this up by badly misunderstanding some statistics. Even as a Christian, I had a problem with some of the things he was willing to say from the pulpit that had nothing to do with preaching the word.
Nailed it again Brandon! I’ve managed to deconvert, but my best friend was born into this and will likely never see his way out. It pains me to listen to his constant talk of how worthless he is, just a filthy rag, and how he would be happy to just get to “clean the toilets” in heaven. It’s a sad way to go through life. Keep it up Brandon, it will take many years to tear down this abusive religion.
It doesn’t really matter what we have to deal with in life since we have a hope beyond this life. It would be hard to not be completely depressed if your worldview tells you that this life is it. Society uses all kinds of distractions to avoid confronting our own mortality. Christians realize our mortality and understand that we have no excuse to be hopeless or depressed.
@@bruotsynh3992 Why is it that Christians see the world in such a “black and white” perspective? You see humanity as being in one of two categories, yourselves the saved with such great hope and all the rest of humanity as being lost and hopeless. How narrow minded! You have no idea what I believe or hope for in this life or after just because I don’t believe in an Iron Age book of fables with a god that commits more atrocities than all of mankind combined. There are untold possibilities as answers to the questions that humans have tried to understand throughout our history. Believe it or not, your view no matter how many others share it with you, is but one belief system. I have no intention to go into what it is I believe or hope for, but I can tell you this. It is far more comforting than to live in fear of some jealous, wrathful “god” that doomed the vast majority of “his children” to eternal damnation.
Thanks for sharing this. It’s a great look at the Christian viewpoint of how worthless the humans are that god created. You’d think he would’ve done better haha.
Ah, TULIP. This will be great, I can already tell. If you are ever hurting for more of this awfulness, and delivered in a very disturbing manner, I recommend John Piper. I had a Christian friend who was a fan of his and sent his sermons my way…I was livid.
@@MindShift-Brandon Piper’s preaching is deranged. He often goes very whispery and then bursts out SHOUTING! There is a lot on total depravity, women having to submit, teh gays being evil, evil fire and the usual fundamentalist points but few perform like Piper does. I used to be subscribed to his newsletter- as an atheist of many years, too- and his written sermons were bad enough but hearing him deliver them is bonkers.
@@damianwhite504 Paul Washer may be worse, yes. He once gave a sermon about holding his son in his arms, when he was a baby…this to remind us of original sin: the baby was playing with his watch, which prompted Washer to realize the child’s greed, going as far as musing that if the baby were big enough, it would kill him in order to get the watch! Who thinks such a thing?! It’s truly, truly deranged.
@@Nocturnalux Yes I saw that one I think. He has also said that all men are EVIL and that anyone has the ability to grow up and become worse than Hitler due to original sin. How comforting.
Despite being so helpless and ruined, I can't help but wonder, why and how we reached where we are today, both in technology and ethics. While argueably the latter lagged behind significantly, you can't say we did not move anywhere. We stumble in the dark, sure, and mess things up all of the time, granted, but yet, by taking incrimental steps, we advance towards something resembling better tommorow. And what I dislike most about that particular religious idea, is how ungrateful it makes people towards accomplishments of those before us and around us, on whos effort we stand today. The perfect example of it is how people in ambulance after a grueling waiting and hearing finally those precious words "the surgery is a success" give their thanks to the God. Out of impulse, sheer habit. To God, and not to surgeon and their assistant, who drop to sleep on the floor after countless hours of meticilously accurate manipulations of instruments and flesh, dancing on the edge between someone's life and death.
MacArthur is wrong. The Bible does not say humanity is born depraved, with original sin. Those concepts are part of a Christian sect known as Calvinism. Many non-calvinist Christians consider Calvinism erroneous and heretical, teaching a different god and gospel.
And then people wonder why people end up leaving Christianity behind. What is the point if there is such a dichotomy in views and no one seems to know what true Christianity is....except of course the very person you're talking to at the time. They ALWAYS now they're right.
Both my wife and I grew up hearing this nonsense. It did permanent damage to her self-image and way of thinking. Her first response to any situation is that it is her fault. Guilt about everything, and I mean everything. I've told her that if the authorities questioned her, she would confess to sinking the Titanic. My former pastor went to MacArthur's school. Ice cold Calvinism. Takes the hate in Christianity to the next level.
I thought there was a big difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, but in reality the difference is none. Imagining that I have a pet cat and three mice, what's the difference between me choosing two of my mice and handing them to the hungry cat for him to eat, or leaving the three with the cat with a protective hole where only one of the mice fits, knowing that two will be eaten? Having a God who knows that most of the population will burn eternally and does nothing about it is no different than one who chooses who will burn eternally.
EVERY Calvinist is one the "SAVED" and one of the "ELECTED ONES." There are no Calvinists CRYING all their lives that they are going to burn in Hell forever. . LOL
What did I think of the 2 preachers? Well, it was hard not to LOL. But they are American, and we are such sinners. And it's not God, it's the Jewish God. Yhwh. And he is so needy. No needs constant Praising. O dear, how sad.😢
It's unbelievable that I used to believe everything MacArthur taught to the point of him "walking on water". I can't listen to him now. How my mind changed, once the thread of truth started to unravel.
I like how you said there are billions of examples where god failed in people who are supposedly hell bound. If people working in our justice system can get through to some of the hardest among us, how is it that an omnipotent being could only think of drowning, slaughtering, burning and giving hemorrhoids to his creation whom he loves so much that disobeyed.
@@MindShift-Brandon I try to remember why i kept wanting to believe, despite knowing better. It comes down to not wanting to let go of this false promise of living forever, which is one of the most powerful attractants for the human mind ever. Then one of the last defense strongholds for apostate thinking, even when eternal life looks suspect, is frying in hell. If it wasn't for either or both of these horrendous promises (eternal life worshipping a deity you want to kick in the balls being just as horrendous as hell) this religion would have fizzled out long ago.
@@damianabbate4423Well, I think nature/physics gives us the same promise, just not in a personal way: "Matter cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transformed." We don't have any control over what our matter and energy (we're mostly energy, since atoms are mostly energy) become when we die, but they can only be changed, not obliterated. Seems to me all the rest of it (heaven/hell) is just stories about how that happens, trying to control how that happens, as compared to participating in it.
@@sundayoliver3147 It's definitely just stories. Nature and this planet are indifferent to our or any other species survival. That i can understand and accept. I don't accept stories about a blood thirsty and cruel god that needs human sacrifice and billions of deaths as part of a plan of salvation.
@@sundayoliver3147 Nature doesn't promise anything. The earth is indifferent to any species survival. In this closed system everything lives, dies and is recycled. You are right, the bible is just stories. Anyone can read that from the beginning of Genesis to Revelation the idea of god evolves, as does the idea of heaven and hell. God goes from something tangible that walks and talks with humans. There was no heaven or hell or soul in Genesis. The bible is so obviously an ignorant and myopic view point of ancient man.
Scripture doesn't teach literal burning in hell. There is a lot of metaphor. Even believers are said to be refined like gold in fire...metaphor..Essentially if you take the Old testament context before reading the new testament hell is just death, the grave. So in the end those that don't believe are just dead, exactly like they are expecting to be when they die. The end. There are also Christians that believe in universalism. Theology is interesting but there are many views. Jesus as savior is non negotiable.
Reference to Good land Buddhism was cool! I was studying Buddhism and it was very interesting how similar Good land Buddhism is to Christianity when it comes to the concept of heaven and hell.
Pure Land Buddhism, Sri Vaishnavism and Protestantism basically teach the same thing. Lol you're saved by the grace of God and you have zero role in salvation.
Why would God create broken things that by DEFAULT he not only casts out, but also consigns to eternal misery? Hearing the Good News only makes things worse for those who can't bring themselves to believe it, because there is a chance that by not hearing it they might have be judged by their good works rather than by their lack of belief. This Good News, needs a disclaimer.
John MacArthur--what a topic. I have great respect for her seriousness toward the Gospel and his erudite knowledge of it. And, at the same time I have to feel sorry for him because he believes every word as absolute truth!!!! Seriously! He does not even address how the Bible came to be...a bunch of men got around and argued as to which Books would be included as the Bible and which would not. And as we know, the Catholic Bible includes Books that the Protestants removed! So which is the inerrant version? I feel sad that John MacArthur preaches that God is so twisted that He sat up in heaven and created totally depraved creations that would have to spend their entire life begging---yet God created us in His own image! How does that work?
yes, i can also respect the dedication with which he believes and acts off that belief. hes not lukewarm thats for sure. Its just such a shame its all so wrong and harmful.
I have acknowledgement that I came on my own conclusion at the age of 4 without the help of the Bible, was that I was a "dead man, blind, helpless, hopeless and that I'm eternal loser" has resulted in 2 attempted suicide and another attempted suicide after profession in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, that left me with serious physical complications, has really only been detrimental so being. I am natural autophobe I really don't need the help of the Bible or preacher communicating these things to me. So we look at Brandon's of video humanities duality. For 38 years I was surrounded biblical words and I have reached the point where everything is failing at making me better. I have doctor's worried, I have Christian friends frantically praying and incessantly repeating the name of Jesus over me, I have to personally see my mother being negativily affected by seeing her son die each day at a much more faster rate and finally Iook at myself worse off now then when I knew Jesus. I know that this space is not meant for hatred but I look forward to the time that in Revelation points to the annihilation of this book. Sorry Brandon I apologize if my hate is showing and you need to remove my comment.❤
What happened to you? Why do you use "I" and "we"? Nobody comes to a conclusion at 4 years old that they they are " a dead man blind, helpless, hopeless and an eternal loser".
It's about the historical development of the Christian religion. What was it like when it was first established? In what societal and cultural situation did it exist? What did it expect? How did it deal with the historical development? I think that this _language_ of "depravity" wasn't mean literally. It's part of the historical relationship between subject and lord. Back then, this most commonly was a "tyrant" or "despot". Terms that have acquired a distinctively negative connotation, but orginally just designated an autocrat, someone who rules alone, based on his own power. The biblical God, the hebrew God, is such a tyrant. And so is the language used... the aggrandizement of the ruler - who is also sitting down to shit - by both enhancing in proclamation his capabilities as well as reducing those of the subjects. It was expected, it was part of tradition and ritual... and those rulers who took it too far very often paid dearly for that. But it established the basic relationship of power between the involved parties. "I will tell you how great you are and you will reward me for that. I will tell you how insignificant I am, and you won't punish me." "Forgive us, oh Lord, for this our dreadful toadying!" (Monty Python: The Meaning of Life, Part 2, Growth and Learning) And these folks expected a very direct relationship with their lord. He was there, he was among them... temporarily absent, but he would be back, any minute now, and then everything would be perfect. Which didn't happen. And so a new way had to be found, one that both gave this new religion a place in the very much still existing world, as well as a way to keep the movement going in the face of disappointment and persecution. Over time, this system of adaptations ossified. Things that never were meant to be literal got interpreted as literal. Things that humans said were turned into the "word of God". Means and methods and explanations that were meant to deal with real existing actual problems were turned into dogma. And because it profited some - always profited some at the expense of the rest - there were and still are groups and people who promote it. I'm quite certain that someone like John McArthur loves to preach about Christian persecution, and he loves to be persecuted himself. As long as it doesn't inconvenience him too much.
I agree both doctrines are sickening, but whether by name or not, Total Depravity seems such a central thread to Christian theology, that it still baffles me that people treat the whole religion as some kind of hopeful, optimistic thing, including when critical of it. The pessimist philosopher John Gray has dismissed humanism as just derived from a 'Christian' notion of humans as morally autonomous beings progressing towards something better. Uh...? Is he even remotely familiar with John Calvin and all his followers? Has he ever read the Bible carefully given how much about humanity's helplessness before divine will? It would be interesting to see MacArthur take him to task for this, but they'd probably end up agreeing on many things. Whatever his protestations, Gray seems closer to Christianity than most humanists. His brand of pessimism could be be seen as secularized Calvinism.
@@MindShift-Brandon Just to clarify, this is the British John Nicholas Gray, distinct from the American John Gray who wrote 'Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.' I expect you probably already knew that, but my pedantry wouldn't let me not say it...
What makes you think "billions of people are burning in hell who never heard about God" ??? Are you saying that sentient humans cannot naturally be aware of and be drawn to the good, the true, and the beautiful or believe with conviction that that very same existence which brought them into being is in its very essence the source and summit of the good, the tue, and the beautiful to which they are drawn? "Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you" (Matthew 21) "but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains" (John 9) "after this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number" (Revelation 7) "and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself" (Colossians 1)
I cannot say whether or not I ever listened to MacArthur back when I was religious, but there was a time during then when I found myself leaning towards what he preached. Thankfully, I recognized then that it was f^^^ed-up to believe that, but that did not stop me from considering it, and that just did... _wonders_ for my mental health. A big part of what led me to becoming an atheist was that t whole thing about being a martyr. Even when my faith drove me to edge (and would have pushed me over if not for a last-minute intervention from my cat - I will always be thankful to you for that, Mittens), there was just the tiniest bit of appeal to being a martyr. I mean, come on, dying because you were doing good - who does not like a heroic sacrifice story? That said, I asked what "doing good" actually meant. Are you trying to actually lift the downtrodden out of their suffering and into a position that, at the very least, did not have as much suffering? Well, then government programs like SNAP and Medicaid do that, so maybe join fellow Christians that want to expand those programs - oh, no, wait, they want those programs dismantled instead. Okay, what about if you want to bring quality education to within reach of more people, maybe, say, making college more affordable? Which Christian groups are - oh, no, wait, they want to shut down most higher education and keep only their exorbitantly expensive campuses (with their ever-declining quality of education) around, and now they want to expand that all the way down to freakin' pre-K. Okay, so how about healthcare instead? Oh, great, now we are hearing more and more of the absolute horror stories that the more religious facilities force onto their patients. How about just generally caring for children? Oh, f^^^, yet another massive CSA scandal that was also covered up by their religion's organization was revealed. And don't even get me started on Mother Teresa. She is one of the biggest cases of deranged hypocrisy in any religion but especially Christianity. Eventually, all of that examination led me to conclude that these so-called "true Christians," the ones that always claim that they are being persecuted... well, given the sh^t that they tend to be involved in for ^their_ idea of "doing good" and becoming a martyr for, then, to quote my religious grandmother when I asked her about maybe wanting to be like them, "they can _idi jebi se"_ (I'll let anyone who is interested look up what that language is and translates into English - I know what it is, but I'll let the curious find out for themselves). When their ideology just so happens to line up nicely with that of a certain European political party that rose to prominence in the 1930s and then really drove things to sh^t by the 1940s and got the rest of the world united against them, then you had better put as much distance as you can from that ideology as fast as you can, because while you might save the odd individual or two from it, it is a not just a lost cause, but a black hole that will suck in and destroy anything that gets too close to it.
I am not a fan at all of Johnny Mac's loveless preaching, but he's right about this. I don't like the verb "lose" that he uses here to describe the Church's last earthly chapter, but the "rapture", friends, our wonderful meeting-up with the Lord in the air (1 Thes. 4), is nothing less (or more) than the mass persecution and martyrdom (Rev. 6:9, resulting in immediate resurrection) of true believers just prior to the nightmarish wrath of the lamb (Rev. 6) - which is the seven-year great tribulation (Rev. 7) and the time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30) - reserved for the remaining souls on Earth who will bow down to the man of lawlessness (2 Thes. 2), also known as the beast coming out of the sea (Rev. 13). This is how the Church is removed from Earth. There's no scriptural support for an end times global revival before the return of Jesus. The Day of the Lord is the most horrible period in the history of mankind.
Is. 29:16 Surely you have things turned around! Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay; For shall the thing made say of him who made it, “He did not make me”? Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it, “He has no understanding”?
Jesus said to the Jewish crowds: "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day Jn 6:
Happy Saturday, ill be out for a while but excited to reply when i get back
You can't leave - all the plants are gonna die!
So you pick out the darkest most perverse Calvinist heresy and set that up as an example of Christianity? Really?... Talk about a persecution complex indeed.
"He created everything so that it might continue to exist, and everything He created is wholesome and good. There is no deadly poison in them. No, death does not rule this world"
(Wisdom 1)
@@jimd6641 Perfect. Y'know, one day Tito Puente will be dead and you will say "Oh yes I've been listening to his work for years". I have watched Stripes wat too much.
@@andrewferg8737 I know too much about persecution. I honestly do. It wasn't Agnostics, Atheists or Devil Worshippers who burned down my home. It was decent Christian people who suddenly took exception to me marrying a Hindu lady. If you believe in miracles, then it was a miracle that wife, children and I got out. And do not waste your time with bible quotes. Your magical incantations serve no useful purpose. "...you incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason". Job 2:3 seems more appropriate.
@@tomsenior7405 Ha ha! I wondered if anyone would catch the reference to Stripes! I too, have wasted a lot of time watching that movie, but it's funny every time.
When our pastor died suddenly of a brain aneurysm in his early 40s-leaving a wife and two small children behind, mind you-John MacArthur implied heavily that God struck him down because he was teaching blasphemous theology (I was raised in Pentecostalism, I believe the words he used were “God does not tolerate false teachers” or something like that). I never forgot that, even as a small child I found the cruelty baffling.
Man alive. Its so sad. MacArthur seems to believe he might just be the one real christian. Lol.
@@MindShift-Brandon He really does. For a church with “grace” in the title, his teaching is remarkably bankrupt of it.
If atheism is true, then stuff happens for no real reasons. Its just atoms in motion.
@@Justas399 As an ex-evangelical turned atheist, I find that the fact that bad things happen just because they do is such a relief, rather than thinking that a supposedly all-loving God made them happen.
@@mikenash7049 Such when bad things happen to people all you can tell them is to suck it up.
Here is something else your atheism leads to;
“In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
― Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
It's crazy how that guy describes the utter disdain Scripture has for Humanity as something to be proud of. It seems insane to think that all humans without exception are all born so irreparably broken, that we can never be deserving of anything other than eternal torment. I find it upsetting that such a view has barely any pushback publicly.
Yes. Really disgusting to do to people.
It really is a striking contrast to the "God loves us so much" fluff that most modern Christians espouse. I remember being and a service and singing 'love songs' to God and talking about how do deepen our 'relationship' with him even those we don't deserve his love. I couldn't help but think 'no wonder so many relationships are f'ed up'
@@leob3447. That’s exactly the point. How can we truly love God if we don’t need anything from him? We love God because he first loved us. And his love is significant because he loved us even when we did not deserve his love.
Laying down your life for a good friend is commendable. What’s much more commendable, however is laying down your life for a stranger, or even an enemy.
@@bruotsynh3992 What would that say about a person who created someone else and didn't love them? We didn't ask to be created and since he actually designed us, what kind of sick love is it that he tells us he loves us even though we don't deserve it? The thing is, I have had so many people try to tell me how much god loves me - but I haven't heard a single thing from him. Nada, zero, zilch, despite decades of prayer. It's almost like he doesn't really exist.
When humans model their love of the the god of the bible - we get the dysfunctional relationships that fill society.
@@leob3447
You get complete dysfunction when atheism/humanism is in control.
The christian family is the far more ideal family.
Non-christians barely do family.
Despicable. God creates people broken, tells them they are broken, keeps them in horrible situations, does not help them, requires them to worship him or he will burn them in hell forever. What a loving relationship.
Yup! Just worse and worse.
Atheism cannot acknowledge that man is evil. Has no answer to this problem.
Christianity has never looked more loving and welcoming 🙃
So very loving.
This is my new favorite channel. Good, honest, apt conversations aimed at refocusing arguments and tactfully deconstructing them.
Thank you! That is so kind and very encouraging to hear!
From a fellow ex-fundie: keep up the great work Brother. Seems like a previous lifetime now, but can't believe I actually listened to MacArthur back in the day. But I'll give him this: unlike so many Christian leaders who twist the Book to the times, Mac is gutsy enough to stick with the Book and to keep preaching blood atonement, hell, subordination of women, sinfulness of being gay, etc. Thankfully, in the long run he and his type will die off because, as humankind progresses, these Iron Age ideas will naturally lose their relevance and appeal, and gradually fade away. Can't happen too soon.
Thank you much, Tom. Yes i do wonder how long this will all keep going. You’d think we’d be getting smart enough
We can only hope....but where I live I sure don't see it happening.
Well Robertson is rotting in the ground hope he has saved room for Jonny mac.
“Can’t happen too soon”. AMEN to that!! 😂
@@MindShift-Brandon It will never truly go away. Just like the legacy of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany or white supremacy in US never truly goes away. BUT we can ameliorate it, and cause it's influence to be negligible.
Sadly, that's not where we are yet at least in the States. It's more like Iraq or Syria, with a huge religious minority persecuting the other minority groups. Only difference is that it isn't hot warfare yet.
It seems strange that after 35 years of being an excommunicated Mormon that when someone says that "the depravity of man" is a fair representation of the NT, I would still bristle. "That's not what it says at all!" Of course, it is what it says if you were trained to put those verses front and center. I was trained to put other verses front and center. Both are "fair" representations, because like most holy books, the Bible is a Rorschach test. But, the enculturation is "strong with this one." Darth Vader
Rorschach test indeed! Thats a perfect way to put it!
Thank you for a clear presentation of the spectrum of this doctrine, and its behavioral consequences.
My pleasure. Thanks!
I remember a sermon where MacArthur told his congregation to stop thinking and just do what the bible says. 🤦♂️
Gross! But thats also what the bible says. Hes just following the book which is more than most religious leaders.
You couldn't be more correct Brandon. Christians LOVE the idea that they are persecuted. I use to, and most/many of my Christian friends and relations loved it too.
Its a sad reality. Was for sure true around me growing up also.
Persecution works to keep people in the cult, as that is where they get their affirmations. MacArthur knows how to use his rhetoric to keep the sheeple paying his salary.
The idea of man being totally depraved suggests that God was not very good at the creation business. He makes people bad and then punishes them for being bad. If God acted like any modern business he would set up a feedback loop and work out how things were going. In those circumstances he might think why am I making people bad and then punishing them for eternity? What was the point of the creation process? If I did nothing would it not be better than this crazy mess?
Yes yes and yes. Exactly!
I was raised in a jewish home. I am not religious anymore. I watch your videos to know how to answer the Christian with his own book(New Testament). I never knew how lucky I was to be raised in a home free from fears of hell and other Christian doctrines. I see how much pain is caused when people deconvert caused by fear.
Yes fear is the worst tool to use, especially on children. Glad to be of value. Thank you for watching.
Same here. Raised in a Catholic home and this fear of hell was not drilled into me, only heard it from other evangelicals; JW being the main culprits. It's kind of why I hated evangelicals when I was religious. Always selling fear, branding everything a "sin"
I've always wondered why a supreme being would want, need and or demand worship in the first place. Sounds like that is born of insecurity, human insecurity.
Yes really seems to keep pointing to man making god, and not the other way around.
@@MindShift-Brandon That was one that gnawed on me from childhood. That was the beginning of the red flags for me.
God doesn't need our worship but he is worthy of all our worship.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 Where's the evidence for that?
@@michaelbradley7529
God created everything visible and invisible, and he died for you because he loves you.
I like that: both ideas are doctrinally sounds….sounds about right.
Yes. But so many christians today think its just a fringe belief. Like no, this is a major part of the core concept.
to answer my previous question in a previous post, i copy pasted this response from below, yes, christians love having low self esteem, it's sick. i told him to seek help:
"In fact, self esteem is more damaging than anything. Because you’re putting your confidence in yourself and find yourself inevitably failing. What do you have left to look at then?
But a Christian knows that we have a sinful flesh and are prone to failure, but Christ redeems us regardless and calls us his perfect children."
Good stuff here. Thanks for all your work and your journey.
My pleasure! thanks for showing the appreciation
The theology fits my own experience perfectly. I spent years exploring various religions, trying to find a path to God without any success. Eventually I picked up a Bible and began to read the New Testament..The realisation that God had opened a portal in to this presence at Calvary , and that I had to do nothing but walk through changed my life. Jesus did what I could never have done for myself. The BIble does not say that God did this in order to be worshipped. It was an act of love. And, no, I do not regard myself as a loser. On the contrary, if we share in Christ's victory we are winners now and for eternity.
Chris, that is not the gospel message at all. The message is you are a loser who must be saved. The reasoning behind Jesus sacrifice doesn't make sense.
@@razorbeard6970 i once was losf but now i'm saved (john newton)
@@razorbeard6970 correction: "l once was lost but now am found
@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb Lost from whom? Certainly not God.
Great video. Been a non Christian for few months now.
Would push back on the idea the Bible “teaches” original sin though. The “Bible” as you know, is not one book. There are a few passages in Paul which might reflect something called “original sin” with a strong emphasis on a depraved nature and the election of God. But this reflects the apocalyptic sectarianism of the day in Judaism. In the Old Testament, people are frequently assumed to be righteous and upstanding before God regularly, and there’s a strong emphasis on deeds and doing good works in the Synoptic gospels, the wisdom literature, and the prophets. The Pentateuch also knows nothing of humans being “totally depraved.”
Thank you much. Good feedback.
Oh my word finally some review of John MacArthur I had his Bible threw it away now. I was following them all John, Paul Washer, Steven Lawson, the Puritans, Justin Pieters,
So Paul Washer is worse
Christianity is built on hopelessness and pity. I find the people who gravitate toward Christianity to be broken by life's experiences. So, of course they get relief by assuring themselves that all people are broken. "It's not just me. It's everyone." How comforting it must be to see everyone else's faults, rather than do something about your own. Drug and alcohol abuse and being molested by a family member are the two most common "faults" in born again Christians. Broken people need help. God is not help...he is a shoulder to cry on,, nothing more.
exactly, but its worse than a shoulder to cry on. Its a crutch that prevents real help.
Rest easy, because you're useless. Accept this external mediator who's better than you in every way. -Evangelism 🤮
Lol. Well done.
2nd person to post this about people’s hero JM.
“We lose, get that, we lose!” - John MacArthur
2023 statement about his fellow rapture/ Israel-Ishmael/ Dispensationalism loser, pessimistic,defeating, fatalistic theology!
Not consistent with God Jesus Christ Law/Word the Bible!
Anyone else think it’s ironic that the people who most believe man can’t do anything good, do so much in the name of their god?
Yes its a great point.
I can't think of a single Christian leader that is not a terrible person.
Edit: Like you said in the video, Christian leaders claim that their religion is unique because it is not based on works . Matthew 5:20 debunks that by Jesus saying that, "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."
Righteousness comes through faith in Christ as a gift, not by works through the law.
"and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith" Philippians 3:9
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 And earlier in Matthew 5:18 Jesus says, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Then it talks about having to be more righteous then the scribes and pharisees, and this is in regards to following the Law since it is mentioned right before this. It was only later that Paul disagreed with Jesus and said the Law no longer mattered. This disagreement is pointless anyways given that Jesus was a false prophet and Paul was a follower of this false prophet and never even met him. The fact that Paul disagrees with Jesus is just hilarious.
@@BluStarGalaxy
It's always hilarious when an atheist tries to explain the bible. 😊
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 I am a former Christian. I find it hilarious you don't have a response to that. Or when Christians say the Bible doesn't actually mean what it says it means.
@@BluStarGalaxy
Jesus and Paul agree, we are saved through faith and baptism. 😊
"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:5-8
"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13
"But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:4-7
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16
Idk, as a somewhat freshly minted determinist, I'm finding myself agreeing more with the Calvinist than I did as a Calvinist, but I'd still see these philosophies as faulty and detrimental of the public good.
No i get it. Within the possible theological philosophies, calvinism is the one that makes the most sense no matter how evil that would make god. Thankfully he doesnt exist
John MC Arthur - lover of god, hater of people.
indeed! I think one must hate people to actually love this god though. Maybe hes just doing it right lol.
This kind of persecution complex has been used throughout most of Christianity and was used most effectively by a self proclaimed Austrian prophet in the 1930s to cause the largest genocide since the flood.
Gott mit uns.
Yup! Its so dangerous!
This persecution complex especially confuses me in the context of white evangelicalism which doesnt acknowledge any sort of systemic racism buta asserts systemic bias against christians. As a black evangelical, I've sat in church services where my black pastors have lectured thier predominately black congregation about not being a victum because of the color of our skin but then in the same message expressing that we are actually victims because we are christians. So we're we traded black victimhood for christian victimhood? Also what they consider to be persecution is ridiculous. If you preach about faith leaders who were ripped apart by lions being "forced" to take a fair amount of someone's money who you dont agree with for a job you would have done anyway isnt oppression. It's a simple transaction
"He created everything so that it might continue to exist, and everything He created is wholesome and good. There is no deadly poison in them. No, death does not rule this world"
(Wisdom 1)
Psychology in situ for original sin
Don't listen to evangelical preachers. They teach a false Gospel.
I would disagree , however, to quote Sheldon Kopp:"Im not o.k and your not o.k, and thats o.k"
Everyone is a zero. The only good that we can do comes from God.
And even there...since we have no basis for judging what's good, we can't even say what comes from God is good. How would we know the difference?
Oh and one more thing I would consider myself more of a fundamentalist. With that said I also don't think John MacArthur is that great of a person. In some ways I think he's smart AF, but I think he misses the mark more than he doesn't
Romans 1:20 states no matter where you're born, that God will reveal himself through nature.
In another video of yours you accuse Christianity is straight-up because they they had concepts that predated stories, wonders, concepts and even genealogies similar to Christianity. By that measure would you said that fifteenth-century Sikhism, and pure land Buddhist are ripping off Christianity?
You go back to sometimes under the right conditions you can be saved. I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. I understand that there are several denominations, I'm not sure if there's as many as you say there are, but as a faith we have a lot of differing opinions, but you also cite the source material quite a bit, (I think that's why I'm attracted to your channel) so something tells me that at the end of the day you would use scripture for your final conclusion of true beliefs. ( Not trying to make assumptions) scripture seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. Jesus didn't say say a little prayer and you were golden. Jesus said follow me, he said seek me first, he said love God with your heart, soul and mind and the rest would take care of itself.
To be honest with you when I hear a pastor teach end-times as a Christian I find it very cringe, because Jesus was very clear that we're not supposed to worry about when, we're just supposed to be ready.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to pick your brain. My denominational comment it's more geared towards you because you most likely rough with a specific denomination and you would probably still read scriptures to that lens, so knowing things like what denomination you grew up in actually helps me understand where you're coming from. I'm genuinely curious about where your views, it seems like a lot of Internet atheist not all are more angry and less informed than you are. Please don't let me offend you with my questions
I’ve spoken to so many Christian’s who denounce churches like the Westboro Baptist Church, claiming that “not ALL Christian’s” are like that. What they don’t understand is that the WBC is following their holy book closer to what it actually says. Everyone makes up their own version of their religion. This is based on what THEY think is morale/good/bad, etc. The more secular morality is applied to religion, the further away from the disgusting origins you get. Hmmmm……seems like peoples beliefs are influenced by the time period they’re in, where they were born, to whom they were born and who they associate with.
Religion evolves to adapt to changing social environment. The religious subspecies that resist change shrink and get marginalized by the wider society. 😊
So well said. The correlation is strong!
Back around the time following Christ there where different schools of though as to what the atonement means exactly. Interpretations of universalism, hell fire, no hell have been around because thinking people also have differing views. So no, there is no one way that has always existed to interpret it. Even the apostles struggled to understand how to teach certain things. To say there is clearly one way the Bible teaches something and every body should know is false.
There is a disturbing undercurrent of masochism in many religions, especially christianity.
Thats a good way of saying it.
I was born whole and free. I find the doctrine of depravity simply disgusting and horrible for children to be told that they are sinners.
Yes. Its just horrible.
@@MindShift-Brandon And yet some of these people treat fetus like they’re innocent
@@Mar-dk3mp im actually Christian, and wdym by sinepess?
I’m making a point how some people treat fetus like they’re innocent and then traumatize kids
@@yourpalcork who are "these people", and what does "innocent" mean when applied to a fetus ?
Amen!
John really helped me to believe that I'm not good enough to be garbage. I've got his books and study bible. It was very effective, I became suicidal. Good times, good times. He's a total Zero. So glad I now believe in reality.
Welcome to Team Normal!
Me too! Glad you made it!
All humans are intrinsically valuable because we are made in the image of God. All life has value because value is grounded in God and he said it is good. Love is grounded in God. I'm sorry to hear your experience from such negative preaching. We love because God first loved us. Nothing can change that. The whole point of what Christ did was to cleanse us of the shame, and to see our worth and make a new covanent in his blood. He did it all. Just relax and love others. He's got this.That is the joy of the Lord.
@@junepearl7993 Team Realism says Hi Five !!!
It's no wonder I was always depressed and even went to the psych ward a few years ago. After 2 years of deconstructing it's amazing how original sin is so harmful. I used to listen to JM's radio program Grace To You as a kid and remember total depravity frequently being assumed. One of my favorite songs at the time was from Petra called "Without Him we can do nothing." Textbook Stockholm Syndrome. Thank you for posting this.
Thank you for sharing. This is exactly what i was talking about and so many think im exaggerating or lying. You are the proof and there are millions like us.
I relate. Also you know Petra! I grew up listening to them. Lol I can still remember all the lyrics.
Same!!!!! Islam was driving me literally crazy. I legit thought about committing myself because of the extreme anxiety. I used to cry on my bed with chest pains because I couldn't fathom religion and feeling extremely guilty for my feelings.
Christians *have* to believe that Christianity is unique in order to maintain their worldview but anybody who studied theology knows for a fact that isn’t true. That’s why I have more respect for the average Christian than I do for Christian scholars and educated apologists
The average Christian most likely never had to confront the inherent flaws and contradictions in their beliefs but the Christian scholar definitely has and they *choose* to ignore contradictory evidence and lie to themselves and other people about it. Ignorance isn’t inherently wrong but dishonesty is
That last line is perfect. And yes just an average indoctrinated christian has an out of lack of knowledge but these apologists have no out.
No the scholars are not lying, they admit that there is mystery and they can't possibly know it all but the evidence has lead them there. What a strange way to describe scholars. Science is full of contradictions, does that make you stop believing in science? No, it means you don't know everything!
@@gy5240 this is a false equivalence. Science is a tool to FIND answers religion is saying it HAS the answers. Science contradicting itself isn’t a problem because it’s entire purpose is to learn both from our success and our failure by applying new information to our understanding of the world when it’s available and discarding old information that we’ve proved wrong whereas religion contradicting itself disproves the claim that it’s the work of a perfect and infallible being
Wow - he refers to his flock as “eternal losers” and they keep going back! What a message. No judgment from me though… I used to believe this stuff with all my heart! 😢
Yes. No judgement. Just sadness. Its a shame to see people so trapped.
I like how they put a sweet and emotional music in the background while telling to the listener that he/she is helpless, hopeless, an eternal loser and totally depraved... no hate is quite like christian love.
Lol right. Emotional priming at its finest.
Christianity was birthed in persecution and will fade in persecution because that's how they like it.
Yes. Theres a real complex at work.
It was never persecuted. They've been in power for 1700 years. Their claim of persecution is a myth they use to oppress and maintain power.
According to the bible, we are useless and worthless. Maybe it's because we are made in his image and likness.
Haha. Maybe!
When I was a Christian, I went to his church. His teaching did not help my mental health but that is only something I can see looking back.
Oh wow! Thats so interesting. I went to churches with pastors just like him but thats quite the claim to fame.
@@MindShift-Brandon Yeah, being told nearly every week that you are a sinner and are going to hell unless God saves you and there is nothing you can do about it because He will only save the "elect" really messes with you when you are a kid even when you pray "the sinner's prayer."
Some like being told they are worthless. They seem to seek out preachers who they say really "Bring it" They are welcome to it.
@@scrider5493 That's kinda kinky
@@DannyS177 Yeah, doesn´t it, sort of like an abused spouse who goes back to the man beating her, but maybe this is worse.
He went full Willy Wonka
"You lose! You get nothing! Good day sir!"
Lol!
The analogy of a starved man being given a crumb was perfect, and you are absolutely right. This type of religious ideology is Stockholm Syndrome at its finest and through its practice your demonstrably devaluing the human spirit, while though flawed, like everything else in the world holds amazing beauty.
Yes exactly! Thanks for watching.
John MacArthur causes PTSD flashbacks for me. I spent a year and a half going to his church and graduated from his Bible college in 1988. So glad I escaped from his cult..... in 1992. I used to think he was the best...I lost a lot of respect for him while attending his church and Bible college, mostly because I was actually learning to think critically and started seeing through the fraud of Christianity while I was under his teaching. He sounds exactly the same way he did 30 years ago. Hasn't't grow a bit. A brainwashed zombie. Sad, really.
Wow how interesting. Crazy to hear too that he hasn’t changed. A whole life spent under this horrific belief system and pushing it on others.
are you an atheist now?
i think JohnMac is a godly and righteous man
@@equalizerperiloustimes4840 He's a sincere confused religious nut.
Thanks Brandon…great video! And to think I use to believe those same evil teachings blows my mind! I was always depressed and full of anxiety and constant fear to the point when I was mentally ill and ended up in psychiatric wards numerous times…I’m so grateful to be out of all that insanity! Those kinds of teachings are dangerous and make me sick! 🤮🤮🤮🤮
Yes. Its just such a shame. Thanks for adding in!
I think this type of preaching had a massively strong effect on me growing up. The mental damage that it does to be told over and over again that you are worthless and there’s nothing you can do about it. It has directly correlated to my OCD and anxiety.
That’s only one part of it. You are unable to do anything on your own (correct). But this is paired with the fact that Jesus came out of his free will you love you and make you whole and worthwhile.
In fact, self esteem is more damaging than anything. Because you’re putting your confidence in yourself and find yourself inevitably failing. What do you have left to look at then?
But a Christian knows that we have a sinful flesh and are prone to failure, but Christ redeems us regardless and calls us his perfect children.
See, you're mentally ill, bruotysyn., YOU have low self esteem and hate yourself, but that doesn't mean the rest of us do. Your god is just stupid if it made you so poorly. Why don't you theists ever make the connection? But seriously, you're mentally ill, you need therapy, and not from a Christian minister. Keep your hatred to yourself, and please, for the love of god, just go away... @@bruotsynh3992
The only positive thing I can think of is John MacArthur helping me out of Pentecostalism with his book, Charismatic Chaos. I am embarrassed to admit that back in the day I faithfully listened to his radio show 5 nights a week,
I never really knew of him when i still believed but i would have eaten all this up. It is embarrassing
christianity is based on the filthy concept of 'original sin' and the myth of 'free will' otherwise the fable of the christ figure is meaningless. this unique ill relation is reminiscent of the stockholm syndrome where victims are convinced of their captors/abusers love.
Oh yes. It is precisely that.
"You're a loser!"
That's quite the sales pitch. "Gosh! Can you be my teacher? I want to join _your_ club!"
Lol no doubt. And how much money do they all give at offering time. Better be a good christian.
Btw, John is not losing on earth. He's very wealthy and is worshiped by his flock.
Oh yes. The hypocrisy was thick. Hes winning here and there.
@@MindShift-BrandonAccording to him!
Thoroughly enjoy your content. I think you communicate very well and suspect that many folks who enjoy the MythVision channel would as well. Hope that you will contact Derek and see if he would introduce you to his subscribers (he may be around 100k subscribers) or even include you in some of his live round table discussions.
I lovee his channel. I didn’ think he would take any time on me unless or until i got a bit bigger, but maybe i will reach out!
I attended the college where MacArthur used to be the president, went to his church for four years while there, and also grew up in another church that utilized a lot of his books and really looked up to him. One thing I can say in his favor is that in person, he's very warm and compassionate. On the other hand, during the pandemic he flat-out told his congregation that there was no pandemic, and backed this up by badly misunderstanding some statistics. Even as a Christian, I had a problem with some of the things he was willing to say from the pulpit that had nothing to do with preaching the word.
Nailed it again Brandon!
I’ve managed to deconvert, but my best friend was born into this and will likely never see his way out. It pains me to listen to his constant talk of how worthless he is, just a filthy rag, and how he would be happy to just get to “clean the toilets” in heaven. It’s a sad way to go through life.
Keep it up Brandon, it will take many years to tear down this abusive religion.
Thank you! Yes i was just with my two best friends this weekend for a camping trip. And its hard for me to see the hold on them.
It doesn’t really matter what we have to deal with in life since we have a hope beyond this life. It would be hard to not be completely depressed if your worldview tells you that this life is it.
Society uses all kinds of distractions to avoid confronting our own mortality. Christians realize our mortality and understand that we have no excuse to be hopeless or depressed.
@@bruotsynh3992 Why is it that Christians see the world in such a “black and white” perspective? You see humanity as being in one of two categories, yourselves the saved with such great hope and all the rest of humanity as being lost and hopeless. How narrow minded!
You have no idea what I believe or hope for in this life or after just because I don’t believe in an Iron Age book of fables with a god that commits more atrocities than all of mankind combined. There are untold possibilities as answers to the questions that humans have tried to understand throughout our history. Believe it or not, your view no matter how many others share it with you, is but one belief system.
I have no intention to go into what it is I believe or hope for, but I can tell you this. It is far more comforting than to live in fear of some jealous, wrathful “god” that doomed the vast majority of “his children” to eternal damnation.
There's toliets in heaven? If so, then what ever a spirit body is supposed to be, is even more confusing.
@@chriswest8389 😂
Thanks for sharing this. It’s a great look at the Christian viewpoint of how worthless the humans are that god created. You’d think he would’ve done better haha.
god….zero creativity
Ah, TULIP. This will be great, I can already tell.
If you are ever hurting for more of this awfulness, and delivered in a very disturbing manner, I recommend John Piper.
I had a Christian friend who was a fan of his and sent his sermons my way…I was livid.
Im scared to look it up, but i will.
@@MindShift-Brandon Piper’s preaching is deranged. He often goes very whispery and then bursts out SHOUTING!
There is a lot on total depravity, women having to submit, teh gays being evil, evil fire and the usual fundamentalist points but few perform like Piper does.
I used to be subscribed to his newsletter- as an atheist of many years, too- and his written sermons were bad enough but hearing him deliver them is bonkers.
Paul Washer is even worse
@@damianwhite504 Paul Washer may be worse, yes.
He once gave a sermon about holding his son in his arms, when he was a baby…this to remind us of original sin: the baby was playing with his watch, which prompted Washer to realize the child’s greed, going as far as musing that if the baby were big enough, it would kill him in order to get the watch!
Who thinks such a thing?! It’s truly, truly deranged.
@@Nocturnalux Yes I saw that one I think.
He has also said that all men are EVIL and that anyone has the ability to grow up and become worse than Hitler due to original sin. How comforting.
I’d like to see how John MacArthur (a multi-millionaire) has been persecuted
Please do more videos reacting to John MacArthur. Many of my friends and family love his preaching.
Despite being so helpless and ruined, I can't help but wonder, why and how we reached where we are today, both in technology and ethics. While argueably the latter lagged behind significantly, you can't say we did not move anywhere. We stumble in the dark, sure, and mess things up all of the time, granted, but yet, by taking incrimental steps, we advance towards something resembling better tommorow.
And what I dislike most about that particular religious idea, is how ungrateful it makes people towards accomplishments of those before us and around us, on whos effort we stand today. The perfect example of it is how people in ambulance after a grueling waiting and hearing finally those precious words "the surgery is a success" give their thanks to the God. Out of impulse, sheer habit. To God, and not to surgeon and their assistant, who drop to sleep on the floor after countless hours of meticilously accurate manipulations of instruments and flesh, dancing on the edge between someone's life and death.
MacArthur is wrong. The Bible does not say humanity is born depraved, with original sin. Those concepts are part of a Christian sect known as Calvinism. Many non-calvinist Christians consider Calvinism erroneous and heretical, teaching a different god and gospel.
I notice he mentions that his belief system(Calvinism) is the only true Christianity. He seems very proud in saying that
And then people wonder why people end up leaving Christianity behind. What is the point if there is such a dichotomy in views and no one seems to know what true Christianity is....except of course the very person you're talking to at the time. They ALWAYS now they're right.
Love seeing the analysis you are getting through, MacArthur was someone I grew up hearing as a kid, such damaging, horrible ideology.
It really is insane!
I totally agree with you, Brandon. They are very sickening, very problematic, and very doctrinally sound.
The prisoner grows to love his chains.
Both my wife and I grew up hearing this nonsense. It did permanent damage to her self-image and way of thinking. Her first response to any situation is that it is her fault. Guilt about everything, and I mean everything. I've told her that if the authorities questioned her, she would confess to sinking the Titanic. My former pastor went to MacArthur's school. Ice cold Calvinism. Takes the hate in Christianity to the next level.
I thought there was a big difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, but in reality the difference is none.
Imagining that I have a pet cat and three mice, what's the difference between me choosing two of my mice and handing them to the hungry cat for him to eat, or leaving the three with the cat with a protective hole where only one of the mice fits, knowing that two will be eaten?
Having a God who knows that most of the population will burn eternally and does nothing about it is no different than one who chooses who will burn eternally.
An excellent analogy! But you can take it further because of gods omniscience and thus still action, he did choose who will burn
EVERY Calvinist is one the "SAVED" and one of the "ELECTED ONES."
There are no Calvinists CRYING all their lives that they are going to burn in Hell forever.
.
LOL
Brandon you should team up with Kristi Burke, you'd make a great team
Thank you. I think so too, we have connected in a few comment sections. I do hope to collab at some point!
What did I think of the 2 preachers? Well, it was hard not to LOL. But they are American, and we are such sinners. And it's not God, it's the Jewish God. Yhwh. And he is so needy. No needs constant
Praising. O dear, how sad.😢
This kind of Christianity... In my opinion, Stockholm Syndrome.
It's unbelievable that I used to believe everything MacArthur taught to the point of him "walking on water". I can't listen to him now. How my mind changed, once the thread of truth started to unravel.
Your channel looks awesome, so I subscribed. Keep up the good work! ❤
Will do! Thanks for joining the family!
I’m worth less than shit & I’m a loser… yeah sign me up! NO, I wasted so many years believing this crap that it sickens me!
I like how you said there are billions of examples where god failed in people who are supposedly hell bound. If people working in our justice system can get through to some of the hardest among us, how is it that an omnipotent being could only think of drowning, slaughtering, burning and giving hemorrhoids to his creation whom he loves so much that disobeyed.
Right?! The thinking is insane.
@@MindShift-Brandon I try to remember why i kept wanting to believe, despite knowing better. It comes down to not wanting to let go of this false promise of living forever, which is one of the most powerful attractants for the human mind ever. Then one of the last defense strongholds for apostate thinking, even when eternal life looks suspect, is frying in hell. If it wasn't for either or both of these horrendous promises (eternal life worshipping a deity you want to kick in the balls being just as horrendous as hell) this religion would have fizzled out long ago.
@@damianabbate4423Well, I think nature/physics gives us the same promise, just not in a personal way: "Matter cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transformed." We don't have any control over what our matter and energy (we're mostly energy, since atoms are mostly energy) become when we die, but they can only be changed, not obliterated.
Seems to me all the rest of it (heaven/hell) is just stories about how that happens, trying to control how that happens, as compared to participating in it.
@@sundayoliver3147 It's definitely just stories. Nature and this planet are indifferent to our or any other species survival. That i can understand and accept. I don't accept stories about a blood thirsty and cruel god that needs human sacrifice and billions of deaths as part of a plan of salvation.
@@sundayoliver3147 Nature doesn't promise anything. The earth is indifferent to any species survival. In this closed system everything lives, dies and is recycled.
You are right, the bible is just stories. Anyone can read that from the beginning of Genesis to Revelation the idea of god evolves, as does the idea of heaven and hell. God goes from something tangible that walks and talks with humans. There was no heaven or hell or soul in Genesis. The bible is so obviously an ignorant and myopic view point of ancient man.
Scripture doesn't teach literal burning in hell. There is a lot of metaphor. Even believers are said to be refined like gold in fire...metaphor..Essentially if you take the Old testament context before reading the new testament hell is just death, the grave. So in the end those that don't believe are just dead, exactly like they are expecting to be when they die. The end. There are also Christians that believe in universalism. Theology is interesting but there are many views. Jesus as savior is non negotiable.
Reference to Good land Buddhism was cool! I was studying Buddhism and it was very interesting how similar Good land Buddhism is to Christianity when it comes to the concept of heaven and hell.
Pure Land Buddhism, Sri Vaishnavism and Protestantism basically teach the same thing. Lol you're saved by the grace of God and you have zero role in salvation.
Thank you. Yes ive thought that too. So all those preachers just ignore these religions
@@TheMahayanist
Buddhism doesn't solve the problem of sin they don't have atonement.
@@MindShift-Brandon These pastors do not study other religions and if they do, they do it to disparage.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7Believe it or not there are also divisions of Christianity that don't believe in substitutionary atonement.
Thank you Brandon for all you do! you have help me iimmensely !!! You're clarity is astounding.
I appreciate that, and I am so happy to be helpful!
Their book is a narcissists play book
indeed!
Why would God create broken things that by DEFAULT he not only casts out, but also consigns to eternal misery? Hearing the Good News only makes things worse for those who can't bring themselves to believe it, because there is a chance that by not hearing it they might have be judged by their good works rather than by their lack of belief. This Good News, needs a disclaimer.
Lol thats a great line!
John MacArthur--what a topic. I have great respect for her seriousness toward the Gospel and his erudite knowledge of it. And, at the same time I have to feel sorry for him because he believes every word as absolute truth!!!! Seriously! He does not even address how the Bible came to be...a bunch of men got around and argued as to which Books would be included as the Bible and which would not. And as we know, the Catholic Bible includes Books that the Protestants removed! So which is the inerrant version? I feel sad that John MacArthur preaches that God is so twisted that He sat up in heaven and created totally depraved creations that would have to spend their entire life begging---yet God created us in His own image! How does that work?
yes, i can also respect the dedication with which he believes and acts off that belief. hes not lukewarm thats for sure. Its just such a shame its all so wrong and harmful.
I have acknowledgement that I came on my own conclusion at the age of 4 without the help of the Bible, was that I was a "dead man, blind, helpless, hopeless and that I'm eternal loser" has resulted in 2 attempted suicide and another attempted suicide after profession in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, that left me with serious physical complications, has really only been detrimental so being. I am natural autophobe I really don't need the help of the Bible or preacher communicating these things to me. So we look at Brandon's of video humanities duality. For 38 years I was surrounded biblical words and I have reached the point where everything is failing at making me better. I have doctor's worried, I have Christian friends frantically praying and incessantly repeating the name of Jesus over me, I have to personally see my mother being negativily affected by seeing her son die each day at a much more faster rate and finally Iook at myself worse off now then when I knew Jesus. I know that this space is not meant for hatred but I look forward to the time that in Revelation points to the annihilation of this book. Sorry Brandon I apologize if my hate is showing and you need to remove my comment.❤
What happened to you? Why do you use "I" and "we"? Nobody comes to a conclusion at 4 years old that they they are " a dead man blind, helpless, hopeless and an eternal loser".
1:09 Yes!! Thank you for doing the work and research for that. It will be a go-to resource for sure.
Hope so!
Never thought of Christianity as a sado-masochistic relationship with a deity but it sure comes across that way.
Sure does!
OMG. This crap is so toxic. The book can be read to evil quite easily.
Toxic indeed! Just sickening.
I kinda feel sorry for the people that believe this beasuce to believe you are nothing or "worthless without god " is kinda sad to me
Its very sad. I do too.
It's about the historical development of the Christian religion. What was it like when it was first established? In what societal and cultural situation did it exist? What did it expect? How did it deal with the historical development?
I think that this _language_ of "depravity" wasn't mean literally. It's part of the historical relationship between subject and lord. Back then, this most commonly was a "tyrant" or "despot". Terms that have acquired a distinctively negative connotation, but orginally just designated an autocrat, someone who rules alone, based on his own power.
The biblical God, the hebrew God, is such a tyrant. And so is the language used... the aggrandizement of the ruler - who is also sitting down to shit - by both enhancing in proclamation his capabilities as well as reducing those of the subjects.
It was expected, it was part of tradition and ritual... and those rulers who took it too far very often paid dearly for that. But it established the basic relationship of power between the involved parties. "I will tell you how great you are and you will reward me for that. I will tell you how insignificant I am, and you won't punish me."
"Forgive us, oh Lord, for this our dreadful toadying!"
(Monty Python: The Meaning of Life, Part 2, Growth and Learning)
And these folks expected a very direct relationship with their lord. He was there, he was among them... temporarily absent, but he would be back, any minute now, and then everything would be perfect.
Which didn't happen. And so a new way had to be found, one that both gave this new religion a place in the very much still existing world, as well as a way to keep the movement going in the face of disappointment and persecution.
Over time, this system of adaptations ossified. Things that never were meant to be literal got interpreted as literal. Things that humans said were turned into the "word of God". Means and methods and explanations that were meant to deal with real existing actual problems were turned into dogma.
And because it profited some - always profited some at the expense of the rest - there were and still are groups and people who promote it.
I'm quite certain that someone like John McArthur loves to preach about Christian persecution, and he loves to be persecuted himself. As long as it doesn't inconvenience him too much.
@@Mar-dk3mp If he exists... wherever he wants to be.
@@Mar-dk3mpFollowing your hollow comments….entertaining. Are you a Xian?
I agree both doctrines are sickening, but whether by name or not, Total Depravity seems such a central thread to Christian theology, that it still baffles me that people treat the whole religion as some kind of hopeful, optimistic thing, including when critical of it. The pessimist philosopher John Gray has dismissed humanism as just derived from a 'Christian' notion of humans as morally autonomous beings progressing towards something better. Uh...? Is he even remotely familiar with John Calvin and all his followers? Has he ever read the Bible carefully given how much about humanity's helplessness before divine will? It would be interesting to see MacArthur take him to task for this, but they'd probably end up agreeing on many things. Whatever his protestations, Gray seems closer to Christianity than most humanists. His brand of pessimism could be be seen as secularized Calvinism.
Thats really interesting. I’ll need to go read more of Gray!
@@MindShift-Brandon Just to clarify, this is the British John Nicholas Gray, distinct from the American John Gray who wrote 'Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.' I expect you probably already knew that, but my pedantry wouldn't let me not say it...
Taking away everything and then giving you a crumb so that you will love them I think is actually the definition of Stockholm Syndrome😕
Manipulation and abuse of power at it’s finest
You need to start including "original video" links.
Ahh yes. I usually do. Ill get those added to this one.
What makes you think "billions of people are burning in hell who never heard about God" ??? Are you saying that sentient humans cannot naturally be aware of and be drawn to the good, the true, and the beautiful or believe with conviction that that very same existence which brought them into being is in its very essence the source and summit of the good, the tue, and the beautiful to which they are drawn?
"Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you" (Matthew 21)
"but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains" (John 9)
"after this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number" (Revelation 7)
"and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself" (Colossians 1)
Fantastic video! Subs going up too!🤘
Thank you! My goal of 5k by end of the year will need to be raised!
I cannot say whether or not I ever listened to MacArthur back when I was religious, but there was a time during then when I found myself leaning towards what he preached. Thankfully, I recognized then that it was f^^^ed-up to believe that, but that did not stop me from considering it, and that just did... _wonders_ for my mental health.
A big part of what led me to becoming an atheist was that t whole thing about being a martyr. Even when my faith drove me to edge (and would have pushed me over if not for a last-minute intervention from my cat - I will always be thankful to you for that, Mittens), there was just the tiniest bit of appeal to being a martyr. I mean, come on, dying because you were doing good - who does not like a heroic sacrifice story? That said, I asked what "doing good" actually meant. Are you trying to actually lift the downtrodden out of their suffering and into a position that, at the very least, did not have as much suffering? Well, then government programs like SNAP and Medicaid do that, so maybe join fellow Christians that want to expand those programs - oh, no, wait, they want those programs dismantled instead. Okay, what about if you want to bring quality education to within reach of more people, maybe, say, making college more affordable? Which Christian groups are - oh, no, wait, they want to shut down most higher education and keep only their exorbitantly expensive campuses (with their ever-declining quality of education) around, and now they want to expand that all the way down to freakin' pre-K. Okay, so how about healthcare instead? Oh, great, now we are hearing more and more of the absolute horror stories that the more religious facilities force onto their patients. How about just generally caring for children? Oh, f^^^, yet another massive CSA scandal that was also covered up by their religion's organization was revealed.
And don't even get me started on Mother Teresa. She is one of the biggest cases of deranged hypocrisy in any religion but especially Christianity.
Eventually, all of that examination led me to conclude that these so-called "true Christians," the ones that always claim that they are being persecuted... well, given the sh^t that they tend to be involved in for ^their_ idea of "doing good" and becoming a martyr for, then, to quote my religious grandmother when I asked her about maybe wanting to be like them, "they can _idi jebi se"_ (I'll let anyone who is interested look up what that language is and translates into English - I know what it is, but I'll let the curious find out for themselves).
When their ideology just so happens to line up nicely with that of a certain European political party that rose to prominence in the 1930s and then really drove things to sh^t by the 1940s and got the rest of the world united against them, then you had better put as much distance as you can from that ideology as fast as you can, because while you might save the odd individual or two from it, it is a not just a lost cause, but a black hole that will suck in and destroy anything that gets too close to it.
I am not a fan at all of Johnny Mac's loveless preaching, but he's right about this. I don't like the verb "lose" that he uses here to describe the Church's last earthly chapter, but the "rapture", friends, our wonderful meeting-up with the Lord in the air (1 Thes. 4), is nothing less (or more) than the mass persecution and martyrdom (Rev. 6:9, resulting in immediate resurrection) of true believers just prior to the nightmarish wrath of the lamb (Rev. 6) - which is the seven-year great tribulation (Rev. 7) and the time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30) - reserved for the remaining souls on Earth who will bow down to the man of lawlessness (2 Thes. 2), also known as the beast coming out of the sea (Rev. 13). This is how the Church is removed from Earth. There's no scriptural support for an end times global revival before the return of Jesus. The Day of the Lord is the most horrible period in the history of mankind.
Is. 29:16 Surely you have things turned around!
Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay;
For shall the thing made say of him who made it,
“He did not make me”?
Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it,
“He has no understanding”?
Jesus said to the Jewish crowds:
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven;
whoever eats this bread will live forever;
and the bread that I will give
is my flesh for the life of the world."
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying,
"How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them,
"Amen, amen, I say to you,
unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood,
you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood
has eternal life,
and I will raise him on the last day Jn 6: