@@RoomandBoardReviews It's odd it has such a good rating for being "just ok" too which makes me think with all the improvements it's going to stand out substantially...never played the first one but looking heavily at KoR.
Idk... I think board games are literally the worst medium to interact with a narrative story. (Sans D&D) Just dealing with upkeep, item management, and reading/flipping through the book, really takes people out of the immersion. My opinion of course
I think Tainted Grail did a really good job here. But that is my opinion. But I can understand what you mean. I play it solo and See it as an interactive book. But I use the app which I think is better than the Story journal. All in all for a group of players I think it is a bad game.
I really think your final point about campaign games needing extra scrutiny compared to other games before backing is especially salient. Unless you know your game group is just as excited as you are (and will still be in a year or longer), or you plan to solo it, it's quite the ask to get others to stay with you for a ride that they didn't want. I recommend people try Jaws of the Lion with their group as a litmus test before trying to spend so much on another. If it's a hit, you might even get through that campaign before the PM of this game closes and can select this one as the next four the group. Another suggestion, and this applies to all projects, is to back at $1, follow the updates, and see if you are still interested when the PM opens in a month or so. The let off in content lessens the hype influence on your thinking and gives you time to look into the game more objectively (what I did for burncycle). If you find yourself no longer excited about the game, or even thinking about it, then you're probably better off passing on the campaign.
Great idea for a litmus test, I'm excited to play Jaws of the Lion with some people who were ready to jump all in into gloom haven and frost haven, and i was like, hey do i have the game for you because you've never don't something that large before, haha.
I don't think Jaw of the lion is the best exemple HERE since it's only a Dungeoncrawler and the story is just there..to be there... and a lot of people could easly just don't care about the campaign since it's just about killing monsters and tactics. I liked the gameplay but i didn't really care for the game wathever we finished it or not, and we didn't because my boyfriend wasn't pulled in, because no story. What i heard the most positive things about Tainted Grail is the story. Still a good point and i'm sure there is another exemple for story driven games. I don't understand why back at 1$ IF the game has been annouced for months, you should know if you've been excited since then and if you're disappointed or not when the crowfunding campaing start. To me backing at 1$ just mean you don't know if you really want to back it or not so you give yourself the possibility to back it...if you're not convinced just don't back it...if it's about money then you shouldn't back it anyway. You can just use the "FOLLOW" feature and you get emails to tell you when it ends, and if you didn't make up your mind then you just shouldn't back it anyway. I agree it doesn't apply to really short campaigns but often it's a nasty marketing strategy and i personnaly don't want to encourage this and wouldn't back it by principles. I personnaly never back a game on day one for the reason you gave, and there is often enouth time to know by the end if i think i should or not. The 1$ dollar tactic could instead push people to end up backing because "why not", you can't be tempted anymore once the campaign is over and you didn't back anything. Well this is just the way i see it.
@@guimauve-rose Great points! I was more coming from the perspective of testing the waters with a campaign game with a game group and at a lower cost with something that is available today. But your example shows why that is a flawed line of logic for some due to the narrative vs lack of narrative differences of the 2 games. Maybe Destinies, Mice and Mystics, or Sleeping Gods might be better choices? You're right about the $1 pledge too. I'm following that dated KS mindset, although some campaigns have charged more for late backers. Still, I'm so glad that Gamefound allows us to just follow and jump in once the PM opens. I've used the $1 pledge for different purposes over the years, either I needed more time to vet the game, I wanted to shift costs to a later date, or there was a concern I had that I wanted to see if the creator fixed before buying in. I can definitely understand for some that putting in $1 makes it that much easier to just fully back later. I guess we each just need to do what works for us and stick to it (which is the hardest part). Chris's Crowdfunding Countdown series does a great job giving unvarnished opinions with value assessments, and has helped me a lot in making more rational decisions.
I suggest Journeys in Middle Earth for anyone looking to get into campaign games with their group. The campaigns are roughly 12 scenarios. The app allows the players to focus on the adventure rather than upkeep. There's story elements and the campaigns provide a mix of exploration, combat, politics, and even deduction scenarios. The card-based skill-check system is easy to understand while providing engagement and interest choices. Alternatively, Arkham Horror: TCG is the cheaper recommendation. The campaigns are much shorter though. The core box is only like 3 or 4 scenarios. I think the cycles tend to be 5 or 6. Don't get me wrong, I love Gloomhaven (and Jaws of the Lion), but story is really only there to string together combat scenarios. It's also a heavy game where the brain-burn and high amount of upkeep can be off-putting to a lot of people. It's great if you want a cooperative, tactical combat game with character progression.
Free Standees revealed today for all of KoR monsters, and paid add-on for FoA monsters. As you mentioned, monster representation is not needed (maybe a little more in KoR though I think with some things moving?) but it's a solid SG!
Instant back for me, but 100% agree about the miniatures. I was prepared to go all in, but as much as I like miniatures and painting them, you are so right, they are barely on the board and so it's just a waste to buy them. I have plenty of other things to spend money on, board games included. I'm just fine with the core box only for KoR.
Where was your channel when I spent all that money getting the all-in for Chronicles of Drunagor? I needed something like this so bad, and also appreciate you saying what I needed to hear for this kickstarter! I just subbed!
Haha I'm glad you found me now! Chronicles of Drunagor was a tough one, I was just starting out around that time, but it looks so so good. I hope it's fulfilled for you and you're loving it :)
I have only got around to buying Fall of Avalon, with all the expansions, this year. I am so interested in the theme and I really want to love it.....but so far, I don't. I have a lot of other campaign games, like Oathsworn and Sword and Sorcery and they will always be picked before Tainted Grail. I understand that this is a game that needs time spent on it but at 60 years old, I am not sure I am prepared to give it time when other games feel a better fit for me?! And yes, despite having 5000 hours of campaigns left to play in Tainted Grail, I was still considering Kings of Ruin, until I had a word with myself. I am a miniature painter and I totally agree that they are pointless in a game like this. Even the main characters could be tokens without taking away from the game. Regarding campaign games generally, I think that we believe that this is what we want but the reality is that most of us don't have the time, or the desire to spend 50+ hours playing the same game. Oathsworn is an example of how to do this well, with different enemies to fight and a cohesive story line. And I don't have to go over the same ground because I failed to pick up the golden pig's ear, that is essential for me to move on to the next chapter.
Damn, why did this not get suggested to me in youtube before the campaign ended :D, awesome video, liked the other one you did on Oathsworn as well, keep up the good job!
I was really disappointed that I missed the original FOA and was excited to have a chance to get my hands on the original. So I just backed FOA and got all the addons, minis, playmat etc.. to the tune of $368.00. I have been vacillating on whether to keep that, back the new one, back the pledge to get both etc.. After watching your video I have decide to back just Kings of Ruin pledge at 165.00. I didn't realize the minis played so little of a role. I love the minis and love to paint but I enough plastic, lol. I like the new improved mechanics and don't need all the extras. Great Video! Thanks
I was on the fence about this one.... Until I was reminded that I don't have anyone else interested in campaign style games. Feel free to make a "5 Reasons you shouldn't Late Pledge Dune War For Arrakis."
This time you were not convincing enough, still getting tainted grail 2 electric boogaloo. And besides it being "only" $99, it has VAT included in the price/shipping too. To me, that's huge! Having VAT not included immediately reduces the chance of me backing anything by about 80%
Love to see both sides of things. Frosthaven would have been my first back but I got in late and just pre-ordered. So! KoR is my first back along with 2.0 FoA lol so stoked. Was initially ready to get the minis cause that's just what you do right? But after research and watching some playthroughs I realized they were useless so only pledged for the core boxes. Definitely appreciate what you do but gotta say I'm super excited for this game. I love gloomhaven but I'm hoping this is the story driven game I hear and see it is. Even without stretch goals I'm excited for these games. Was originally thinking of playing this game with my brother but after all the playthroughs I've watched I'm excited to just go through it on my own. For myself I'm excited for my first back. I'm excited for these games, and the stretch goals are just a bonus. Still love you playing the other side of the hype and appreciate what you have to offer :)
At the end, Lords of Ragnarok ended up to be a single wave shipping. It was originally planned to be a 2, but they confirmed that they will be able to make it in 1
As far as I can tell from the new game, they haven't really addressed the pacing problem between players. It's just not fun for all your actions in a round to take 2-3 minutes, and then another player's actions in a round take 20-30 minutes simply because they were able to engage with more systems. The game feels like it's designed for solo with multiplayer tacked on. I'm not really interested in solo gaming, and the game can be really boring while you're waiting. It doesn't feel like any thought was really put into how long systems in the game can take. And, while reducing the amount of grind will help reduce how often players are engaging in these system, the system is still going to bog down the pacing. I wanted to love Tainted Grail (or even like it), but we put in about 15 hours and at the best of times it was only fine. However, a lot of the time it wasn't fun. Even with the revisions to make the game smoother and less grindy, I don't see the new version working for us. And, it's a shame, because the story was interesting. It's not that the systems are bad. The combat is a really interesting system of chaining your cards together, deciding which face values you want to remain up (usually the last card played), and manipulating the damage to the monster to keep it from wrecking you in response. But, it's too time consuming for an adventure game. The cooperative implementation (when you do have that opportunity) feels tacked on and cludgy. There's an amazing cooperative boss-battler just waiting to be made from the bones of this combat system, but it's not Tainted Grail. TG has so much promise. If you're playing solo, it's probably amazing. It's likely really engaging and you'll never be sitting there twiddling your thumbs watching another player get to interact with a bunch of interesting systems. I'm just glad that TG was a game that had a lot of buzz and people were excited for, because it made it very easy to off-load it locally for what I paid. It would've stung a lot more had the game been difficult to sell.
I’m happy the price is better and the game is smaller. Honestly all the extra campaigns stuff would have just made the game more expensive and I doubt I would have gotten it all played through. I actually skipped the first TG since it looked like it was a bit too overblown. I wanted a more concise experience and I think the new TG looks a lot closer to that for me.
Honestly I love AR games but their minis aren’t very good. The sculpt ideas tend to be really cool, but the actual miniatures don’t live up to the design. I am backing KOR but not the minis. As a painter that it’s against my nature, but they are just not worth painting.
Excited to back this one myself. I was especially glad to see the price point. You definitely have some good points though and it does make me stop and consider. One thing that I see a benefit in is the miniatures. I like to create my own monsters for D&D games and use these crazy miniatures. Unfortunately, like you, I have not started painting my minis. Appreciate your videos.
Yeah I'm happy I have the Etherfields ones and they're in a separate box, because I feel anytime I need minis I can just use those as my substitute. But now that I have one I can't justify owning more than one pack of extraneous minis, even if there is a Goblin Shark in there haha
These type of games, only makes sense to me, if I can play solo, when don't have something else to do..., I only play with a group once a week, and I don't want spend 6 months playing just one game
Gotta say, a huge reason for backing this now instead of buying later at retail (or even not at all) is that every single game AR has put out is waaaay more expensive in retail. Like, even with shipping you will probably still come out with more money selling your used copy, assuming you treated it well (which you will of course 🤨)
That's definitely a mentality I have fallen into, but I think there should be more of a driving force to purchase than just fear of paying more later. For me that is the driving force so I know it's not a sensible purchase for me to make :)
@@RoomandBoardReviews its less "fear of paying more later", my reasoning is: I can try the game out - if I like it, I made a good deal, if I don't, I can just sell it again and most likely make a couple bucks as a small bonus.
I think reason 4 needs a bit more elaboration. At the moment, it looks like only the notebook from all the stretch goals won't be part of the core box. Hence, you can quite well compare the value of this Crowdfunding to retail. You pay in this Crowdfunding campaign 122 minimum (including shipping). The official retail price of their latest game (Nemesis Lockdown) is 156. Let us say, they go bonkers on this one and it will be 180. So you save 58 bucks by backing (and get a notebook). BUT it does only take one to two years and retail prices are dropping rapidly. E. G. Tainted grail Fall of Avalon vor box dropped 20% already. That reduces those 180 to 144. So you save only 22 bucks. BUT now inflation kicks in as well. Money you spend now is more worth than money you spend when the product arrives. Let us say, for one year it is 10%. That means you do not pay 122, but 136. So the total adavantage is 8 bucks plus a notebook. And this all assumes that you only pay 23 for shipping and that the core box will really be 180 in retail. How sad. Awaken Realms used to provide good Kickstarter Deals, but that time is over...
Although I don't agree with all your reasons and having NOT been able to play the original TG, I think that you DO analyze your thought in a good manner and you DO actually make a couple of fair points! So ... having already backed this one and being on the edge of getting the 'All In' pledge just because of the goblin shark xD you made me say to myself yeaaaahhhh you probably don't need the extra minis ... so thank u!
Checking in before watching the video... rn I'm definitely getting the upgrade pack but idk if I'll back the whole thing.... their stretchgoals are looking quite nice... but I've also barely touched the first box. I look forward to your guidance!
Awaken realms is a weird one. The models are so good, especially sundrop, but can be such a luxury expensive component that adds nothing to gameplay. Nemesis uses the models well but when you look at games like iss vanguard, beyond the player character models that are used as location markers none of the other models (optional purchases) will see the table enough to make it valuable.
Yeah, I agree. But at least they're pretty clear it's an optional add-on that doesn't really have gameplay implications, and the collectors don't care because they want more stufffff haha
I mean it depends - I don't often proxy minis but if I do down the line I'm happy I have the Etherfields ones. I just know since I have those extra ones I don't need any other extraneous sets
Hahaa I agree with every point you made and am backing it anyway. I really enjoyed the grind of the original and I am looking forward to trying out this version of the system. I have not played it in a while and still the story and game play stays as an itch in the back of my mind that makes me want to go back to it.
With ISS Vanguard and Lavon Rising on the way there is currently no room for campaign games. Also I already backed three games from them which weren't delivered yet which goes against my #1 rule....maybe I will late pledge.
Yeah I ended up just going through the story book halfway through and not playing and finished the story that way for the most part. The story was soooooo good. But man you would have had to have a great memory for all of it. Which I don't. So I'm glad I just did that. A 10 or 20hr campaign is more up my alley than 40. And this core campaign for me would have been like 100hr if I played the right way. Instead I did it in a 2 or 3 days. #aintnobodygottimefodat
Totally agree with these points. I will definitely not be backing. I have ATO 5 cycle, gloomhaven to finish, and Oathsworn that I will be backing with the 2nd printing, SHEOL, and an all-in for Tanares BG and RPG. I feel like Tainted Grail is a bit of old news for me now. And yeah I agree, Tainted Grail was just okay.
I backed Fall of Avalon 2.0 and really looking forward to it. Thank you for your video because I saved money on the extra minis. I did, however, get Echoes of the Past as well. I always wanted to experience this game and this is my opportunity to get it! Thanks for your thoughts, I subscribed and liked and will check out your channel. Cheers
To late!!! Already backed. But then I have loved Tainted Grail and while I finished all three campaigns I did have some issues and this seems to fix most of the issues I had with them.
Got the minis from the Etherfields campaign back then and even though they are a national treasure I can proudly say I wont back them for KoR. Whoopwhoop.
AR to me is the epitome of overbloat. Don't get me wrong, I want Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown, but just the cores will do. TG and TG2 look beautiful, but I will NEVER get these to the table.
You just convinced me to back it even more :'D I don't have any game like this I don't plan on backing the minis i'm defenitly more interested in story driven content than dungeoncrawler pricepoint is reasonable not hundread of expansion or add on and i don't care for them right know, i'll look into it later maybe i watched gameplay video and it looks like i would enjoy it can't say if the first one was good or not but a lot of people liked even if there was a lot of issues it can be played at 1 or 2 player so it's easier for me to table it than any 3+ player game xD
Fair point about the minis, but boy do I want to feel their sudden presence when they hit the board. The difference between the Hex Leech card art and mini is huge. The writing does seem quite good in the demo, though as with everything Awaken Realms, there're always awkward lines of things lost in translation. Honestly, they should hire a native English speaker to handle that stuff. I was really underwhelmed watching people play the original, but this one has drawn me in with a very nice Silent Hillesque mystique.
Hype is real, but Room&Board is the realest! Thanks for the reality check Chris, I always already only considering the KoR base pledge, but after Reason #1 I’m out completely. At the moment I’d be playing solo, and I’d rather play so many other games with my SO then Tainted Grail on my own!
I'm getting the gameplay all in, all of KoR, all of FoA, and I will play all the campaigns at least once ^^ Just need to finish the other 10 epic massive narrative campaign games.
The good news is that I'm not at all interested in this campaign for the reasons that you listed but mostly because the idea of "grinding" in any way, shape of form in a narrative driven game is insane to me. I'm tempted by both Tainted Grail and ISS Vanguard's promise but the element of grind just gives me World of Warcraft PTSD. The bad news is that skipping out on these campaigns made me look at older campaigns that I really wanted to back and skipped the first time around. So as a result, I backed Lobotomy 2 and Primal: The Awakened. Mostly because they have gameplay elements I love combined with a theme that excites me but a small reason is because the Canadian dollar is doing well versus the Euro right now. I probably got a 15% discount for waiting to back the project. Don't you dare use that as a bad reason to back a project! I was able to say "wait for retail" for Dune: War for Arrakis but will I be tempted by Cthulhu: Death May Die - Season 3? I'll need you to scream "That's too much shipping!" at me when this launches!
The choose-your-own-adventure style of storytelling and massive table-hog location cards ruined the first game for me. I really wish they instead would have just released the deck builder with a great linear campaign and kept it simple. The choices were meaningless anyway as go east or west it doesn't matter you will always end up in the civil war and going to the far west no matter what.
Thanks for the video! I've been considering this for a while now, and especially "getting a deal" felt really tempting. But let's face it, even though this IS a great deal, I have enough games to skip this one. I was really close to falling on the wrong side of the fence, have a subscribe as thanks!
After watching this I actually kinda regret skipping Kings of Ruin 🙈 For me those big, narrative campaigns just scratch a different itch than more mechanical games, and I do think Tainted Grail could be a much better experience if the main story would move at a faster pace. So yeah, the changes sound actually pretty good to me. On the other hand I still have 2 more campaigns to go through. And ISS Vanguard is waiting to get played, too 🤷♂
i haven't looked into this game much but the few quick overviews I've seen it doesn't seem to have a great gametable presence. like you mentioned the minis are just for show. another campaign game were i say to myself that I'm glad i went with Agemonia instead! ;)
I haven't played the base, I am considering dumping the minis based on your review though.... I am super excited for this one, but I love a lot of the story book games so I feel like I am going to like this as I like sleeping gods and 7th continent. I feel this is a solo game more than a group game.
Definitely I think is better as a solo than group, that way you can just enjoy it at your own pace. Honestly the minis are gorgeous but in Etherfields I keep thinking ah, I could have proxied this and I wouldn't have been happy with how much they're used in the base tainted Grail, very happy I got a late pledge from my neighbor and wasn't tempted to add on anything
@@RoomandBoardReviews You got me to drop those mini's out. I think that you put them on the board for a few minutes and someone else had said that in a review just made me yank it and save hundreds... All the game content, but no minis is probably the right move for me. Thank you!
Sitting on it for a few more days, but probably gonna end up backing. I was tmpted by that extra box of minis but a pass on that now, definitely a good point there. Pretty curious, have you had/what is your "great" narrative game that serves as your bar of comparison for new ones?
I haven’t played the first Tainted Grail but your comments on the storyline remind me of Sleeping Gods. I heard so many good things about it but as I played through it I realized really, a story designed you can go through in any order and skip most of it…it’s got to work insanely hard to be compelling anyway and it didn’t work for me. I think 7th Continent pulled me in by avoiding real narrative in favor of an evocative setting. I’m also helped by the fact that I just can’t get into these minis. I resisted on ISS Vanguard and now I’m debating if I will crumble and get them on second wave. But these don’t grab me the same way. But of course that makes it a better value proposition. 😂
That's funny, I like these minis waaay more than ISS Vanguard, I like the curves verses the hard angles I think. That was one main reason I wasn't tempted by ISS, and less by Ragnarok to an extent
Reasons 2, 3, and 5 may have saved me from getting this. I have been eyeing it but I really can't see myself wanting to table this. I wouldn't have considered it if it weren't for reason 1. However, if this is a game of your style, then by all means. The price will give you the value if reasons 2-5 do not remotely apply. On a side note, I have to disagree with you Chris on the points about AR improving upon their existing works. Maybe this is a bit of an unfair comparison but what I found with the improvements made from Etherfields 1.0 to 2.0 didn't reflect an AR that learns from its criticisms. I think TG will be different because they've been clear on the changes that need to be made for KoR and FoA 2.0, but it won't change the fundamentals of the game that someone, like me, wants a ton of action in the middle of all this story. With Sleeping Gods in the mail to me, Distant Skies, and Oathsworn coming back up on KS, I definitely think TG is gonna be a pass as much as I want to see AR redeem itself since Ether 2.0 (pssst I wanna know what you think of it! God the minis are gorgeous 😭) Thank you Chris for saving me some cash to which I will throw instead into the fire of Oathsworn instead 🥲
Oh dang that's too bad about Etherfields, I'm looking forward to wave 2 but haven't disliked the slumbers so I didn't think I was going to implement it. I think the update pack is much harder to revamp than a full new edition, because you're right you're still working with what they already have rather than building from the ground up
I contemplated it for me, especially since I haven't finished Tainted Grail, but after shipping it just doesn't seem worth it, I'm fine playing without the tweaks.
Yeah if I wanted to not provide a balanced look, sure. But I'll stick with offering both sides and not just being negative for the sake of negative instead. Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.
Wanted the original Tainted Grail but didnt back. I was considering getting the gameplay all in for both but backed out of that. Right now I'm in just for KoR plus the expansion w/o Sundrop. That is a price and level I am comfortable with
Always enjoy watching these. Defnitely not backing this as my friend backed the first one and our group didn't really enjoy it. Of course said friend is backing this one too so LOL
I listened to your comments on Dungeon Universalis and I wonder - would you pick $99 for KoR, a mostly known ruleset, a 20-45 hour campaign, or would you tackle the 124 page rule book for DUN, which at $125 offers 200 hours of campaign play - and 500 hours at about $350 - for the sake of value?
In that instance I'd go for Tainted Grail. Dungeon Universalis is too much of a commitment. Honestly most campaign games at this point are too much of a commitment because of the amount of games they have to usurp to experience their full potential. I'm unfortunately too busy and my gaming goals are different enough to make DUN a non consideration for me, regardless of the deal it provides
@@RoomandBoardReviews That is an interesting position on campaign games. I agree, but I also find that non-campaign games get played less in any given stretch, so the investment to learn/relearn the rules has a worse payoff in some ways. Then again I am mostly playing solo. If I was playing in a group more I would be right there with you.
@@stephendavis7327 As a 11,000hour dota player I am more about playing one a game a ton rather than having 25 short games that will occupy me. Because then I have 25 games getting dusty instead of 1 or 2 while I cycle them.
@@stephendavis7327 Yeah good distinction. I think for solo players, campaign games are definitely the optimal value, especially because you're not on anyone else's timeline but your own, and you don't have to worry about everyone else's commitment level. I bounce around to a few groups, and they often want variation/it's hard to keep their attention, so I know I'll likely end up soloing a few of the ones I was hoping to play with a group.
I really like legacy and campaign games. But I need those games to have a set number of plays. I am playing aeons end legacy atm. It’s a solid game, great mechanics. Meh story. But me and my roomie know that the whole campaign is like 15 games and it’s done. You can plan to play the whole campaign. You can get exited that you are nearing the end and the game will play as a solid non campaign board game after we are done. But a game that sells itself as an endless campaign feels like so much more then it needs to be and so much less then it could have been. I will take a solid experience with a Beginning middle and end. over a grey and endless expanse leading generally onward until your energy and excitement to explore it is burned away. That’s why the best dnd or trpg have a set ending. DND games that sorta fade out with interest are the worst. Board games don’t need to emulate that.
I contemplated it, but I decided that with the shipping the cost really wasn't worth it for me. I imagine it wouldn't change all that much, and I always reject the notion of needing an expansion to fix a game/make it playable. I'm personally fine how it is and playing it as the first version.
See, the minis may be overkill... Unless you do a lot of TTRPG horror games and want some really creepy stuff to weird out your players. 😆 I actually really appreciate the minis being separated... Even though I often keep picking them up. I also don't really understand the pushback to the minimal stretch goals and limited or no expansions. I'm pretty burnt out on massive games with a dozen boxes. I've only been backing games for two years and I'm already nearly out of space. I'd also much prefer a separate campaign for expansions so you have time to play the core game before deciding you want more. Given the shipping crisis and costs to make games anymore, I have a hunch this is where a lot of companies are heading, and I'm perfectly ok with that.
Yeah I think that would always be a great call. It's going to be very rare for me to get expansions before trying the main game from here on out for the same reason
Not interested, but for painting minis, $70 for 20 minis isn't a bad deal if they look good. And they seem pretty high quality. Generally anything in the $5 or less isn't bad. And that's for single human sized minis, so if some bosses or huge monsters are in there, so much the better. But yeah, sounds like they don't match the gameplay, so . . . Nah.
@@shawnhilliard I counted how many I have coming from various kickstarters and gamefounds. I thought, hey, could do one a day and start getting caught up, knock these out. . . . I'm scared of the number I got. My recommendation, invest in speed paints. Also congrats on the kid; as a fellow parent it's fun. Sometimes. Mostly good. Really. Make sure to stock up on coffee.
Thanks, especially for 5th or rather the reason #1. In order: #5 - I don't care about minis. "mini addons" were never a thing I was going to even consider buying. Current standee SG is simply perfect replacement for those boxes full of minis. However, there was this one single figurine in Etherfields … if only I wasn't late to the party, I'd buy just that resin figurine separately from the game. If they'd offer it painted (not sundropped, painted), I'd probably go for that as well. "Luckily", I was too late and that specific figurine was already gone, and other figurines weren't pulling me in. #4 - campaign is just about to end and SGs look … ok? I mean, just ok, nothing that really pushes me one way or the other. Still, value added is something that does pull me in. ;) #3 - I've played only a single campaign game so far and that is Pandemic: Legacy, season 0. I am not sure one can really call it a narrative game ;) Not having a true experience of this kind, I was interested in the original before, but I still did not get it. New campaign pushes me into the buyer (or rather a backer) zone again. #2 - I got lured by the retail deals many times in the past. Crowdfunding campaigns so far were never too good of a deal. Unless there are incredibly good exclusives (exclusive SG), deal is never good, because of delivery costs. Simply speaking - retail price is usually around same level as the campaign price. Then, on top of that I have to pay e.g. $20 for delivery, then add taxes and other duties (not a case for this exact campaign, since those are hidden in delivery cost, but it's still a VERY real and VERY hurting thing for any e.g. US based campaign) versus retail delivery price which would be … most likely $0. To me that question becomes a question whether SGs are worth the delivery price and all that waiting. #1 - now this reason just really hit me. This made me think, that any "gameplay focused" game and book reading might offer me a much better experience at lower price, than game that is focusing on story more than a gameplay itself. Luckily, I can skip it and decide to get it when it hits retail stores. Maybe by that time I will have a chance to play some other big narrative game. So for now, you're saving my money :)
Happily did not back. Even if it was going to be my favorite game it still wouldn't be worth it. We need more voice of reason - it's a consumer culture though. We just have soooo much. This culture is never starving for food - entertainment has replaced that need. Now people hunger for the next dumb play thing.
Man I hate it when you speak reason and talk me out of backing games. I was interested in Tainted Grail FOA, and watched a bunch of stuff on it and KoR looked like it fixed a lot of stuff. But really a story game, if I play it I would just end up playing solo. Which is fine, but not what I like playing games for.
Congratulations, you're down on the game for the exact things that differentiate it from other random combat-focused dungeon crawlers! Way to not see the woods for all the trees... 🤦♂️
I don't care about you either!!! (proceeds to hit like button)
SO close! You almost talked me into it. Until we got to #1, and I thought, "Oh yeah. Tainted Grail was just okay. I keep forgetting that."
It's easy to forget, I also was forgetting when I was looking at the campaign.
@@RoomandBoardReviews It's odd it has such a good rating for being "just ok" too which makes me think with all the improvements it's going to stand out substantially...never played the first one but looking heavily at KoR.
Idk... I think board games are literally the worst medium to interact with a narrative story. (Sans D&D) Just dealing with upkeep, item management, and reading/flipping through the book, really takes people out of the immersion. My opinion of course
I think Tainted Grail did a really good job here. But that is my opinion. But I can understand what you mean. I play it solo and See it as an interactive book. But I use the app which I think is better than the Story journal. All in all for a group of players I think it is a bad game.
D&D is not a board game.
These are some of my favorite videos. It’s a breath of fresh air to get a counter to the hype. Cheers 🍻
I really think your final point about campaign games needing extra scrutiny compared to other games before backing is especially salient. Unless you know your game group is just as excited as you are (and will still be in a year or longer), or you plan to solo it, it's quite the ask to get others to stay with you for a ride that they didn't want.
I recommend people try Jaws of the Lion with their group as a litmus test before trying to spend so much on another. If it's a hit, you might even get through that campaign before the PM of this game closes and can select this one as the next four the group.
Another suggestion, and this applies to all projects, is to back at $1, follow the updates, and see if you are still interested when the PM opens in a month or so. The let off in content lessens the hype influence on your thinking and gives you time to look into the game more objectively (what I did for burncycle). If you find yourself no longer excited about the game, or even thinking about it, then you're probably better off passing on the campaign.
Great idea for a litmus test, I'm excited to play Jaws of the Lion with some people who were ready to jump all in into gloom haven and frost haven, and i was like, hey do i have the game for you because you've never don't something that large before, haha.
@@RoomandBoardReviews ha true! Jaws of the Lion still takes longer to go through than the average campaign and it’s the “lite” version!
I don't think Jaw of the lion is the best exemple HERE since it's only a Dungeoncrawler and the story is just there..to be there... and a lot of people could easly just don't care about the campaign since it's just about killing monsters and tactics. I liked the gameplay but i didn't really care for the game wathever we finished it or not, and we didn't because my boyfriend wasn't pulled in, because no story. What i heard the most positive things about Tainted Grail is the story. Still a good point and i'm sure there is another exemple for story driven games.
I don't understand why back at 1$ IF the game has been annouced for months, you should know if you've been excited since then and if you're disappointed or not when the crowfunding campaing start. To me backing at 1$ just mean you don't know if you really want to back it or not so you give yourself the possibility to back it...if you're not convinced just don't back it...if it's about money then you shouldn't back it anyway. You can just use the "FOLLOW" feature and you get emails to tell you when it ends, and if you didn't make up your mind then you just shouldn't back it anyway. I agree it doesn't apply to really short campaigns but often it's a nasty marketing strategy and i personnaly don't want to encourage this and wouldn't back it by principles.
I personnaly never back a game on day one for the reason you gave, and there is often enouth time to know by the end if i think i should or not. The 1$ dollar tactic could instead push people to end up backing because "why not", you can't be tempted anymore once the campaign is over and you didn't back anything.
Well this is just the way i see it.
@@guimauve-rose Great points! I was more coming from the perspective of testing the waters with a campaign game with a game group and at a lower cost with something that is available today. But your example shows why that is a flawed line of logic for some due to the narrative vs lack of narrative differences of the 2 games. Maybe Destinies, Mice and Mystics, or Sleeping Gods might be better choices?
You're right about the $1 pledge too. I'm following that dated KS mindset, although some campaigns have charged more for late backers. Still, I'm so glad that Gamefound allows us to just follow and jump in once the PM opens. I've used the $1 pledge for different purposes over the years, either I needed more time to vet the game, I wanted to shift costs to a later date, or there was a concern I had that I wanted to see if the creator fixed before buying in. I can definitely understand for some that putting in $1 makes it that much easier to just fully back later. I guess we each just need to do what works for us and stick to it (which is the hardest part). Chris's Crowdfunding Countdown series does a great job giving unvarnished opinions with value assessments, and has helped me a lot in making more rational decisions.
I suggest Journeys in Middle Earth for anyone looking to get into campaign games with their group. The campaigns are roughly 12 scenarios. The app allows the players to focus on the adventure rather than upkeep. There's story elements and the campaigns provide a mix of exploration, combat, politics, and even deduction scenarios. The card-based skill-check system is easy to understand while providing engagement and interest choices.
Alternatively, Arkham Horror: TCG is the cheaper recommendation. The campaigns are much shorter though. The core box is only like 3 or 4 scenarios. I think the cycles tend to be 5 or 6.
Don't get me wrong, I love Gloomhaven (and Jaws of the Lion), but story is really only there to string together combat scenarios. It's also a heavy game where the brain-burn and high amount of upkeep can be off-putting to a lot of people. It's great if you want a cooperative, tactical combat game with character progression.
Always coming here to watch it after I backed the game in question :P
Free Standees revealed today for all of KoR monsters, and paid add-on for FoA monsters. As you mentioned, monster representation is not needed (maybe a little more in KoR though I think with some things moving?) but it's a solid SG!
Instant back for me, but 100% agree about the miniatures. I was prepared to go all in, but as much as I like miniatures and painting them, you are so right, they are barely on the board and so it's just a waste to buy them. I have plenty of other things to spend money on, board games included. I'm just fine with the core box only for KoR.
Where was your channel when I spent all that money getting the all-in for Chronicles of Drunagor? I needed something like this so bad, and also appreciate you saying what I needed to hear for this kickstarter! I just subbed!
Haha I'm glad you found me now! Chronicles of Drunagor was a tough one, I was just starting out around that time, but it looks so so good. I hope it's fulfilled for you and you're loving it :)
I have only got around to buying Fall of Avalon, with all the expansions, this year. I am so interested in the theme and I really want to love it.....but so far, I don't. I have a lot of other campaign games, like Oathsworn and Sword and Sorcery and they will always be picked before Tainted Grail. I understand that this is a game that needs time spent on it but at 60 years old, I am not sure I am prepared to give it time when other games feel a better fit for me?! And yes, despite having 5000 hours of campaigns left to play in Tainted Grail, I was still considering Kings of Ruin, until I had a word with myself. I am a miniature painter and I totally agree that they are pointless in a game like this. Even the main characters could be tokens without taking away from the game.
Regarding campaign games generally, I think that we believe that this is what we want but the reality is that most of us don't have the time, or the desire to spend 50+ hours playing the same game. Oathsworn is an example of how to do this well, with different enemies to fight and a cohesive story line. And I don't have to go over the same ground because I failed to pick up the golden pig's ear, that is essential for me to move on to the next chapter.
So ... I haven't backed it. But the late pledge ends tomorrow, and let's just say, I needed to hear that today. Thanks!
Yep. Fair points. I probably won't be backing, but I do love the artwork. Definitely wish the minis were more than just gorgeous paper weights.
Damn, why did this not get suggested to me in youtube before the campaign ended :D, awesome video, liked the other one you did on Oathsworn as well, keep up the good job!
I was really disappointed that I missed the original FOA and was excited to have a chance to get my hands on the original. So I just backed FOA and got all the addons, minis, playmat etc.. to the tune of $368.00. I have been vacillating on whether to keep that, back the new one, back the pledge to get both etc.. After watching your video I have decide to back just Kings of Ruin pledge at 165.00. I didn't realize the minis played so little of a role. I love the minis and love to paint but I enough plastic, lol. I like the new improved mechanics and don't need all the extras. Great Video! Thanks
Totally backing this one. :) Enjoyed the first one, need to have them all!!
I was on the fence about this one.... Until I was reminded that I don't have anyone else interested in campaign style games. Feel free to make a "5 Reasons you shouldn't Late Pledge Dune War For Arrakis."
This time you were not convincing enough, still getting tainted grail 2 electric boogaloo.
And besides it being "only" $99, it has VAT included in the price/shipping too. To me, that's huge! Having VAT not included immediately reduces the chance of me backing anything by about 80%
Oh wow, yeah that VAT addition I know is a huge draw! I'm so happy you called it by it's PROPER name that if you didn't get it I would be upset, haha
Love to see both sides of things. Frosthaven would have been my first back but I got in late and just pre-ordered. So! KoR is my first back along with 2.0 FoA lol so stoked. Was initially ready to get the minis cause that's just what you do right? But after research and watching some playthroughs I realized they were useless so only pledged for the core boxes. Definitely appreciate what you do but gotta say I'm super excited for this game. I love gloomhaven but I'm hoping this is the story driven game I hear and see it is. Even without stretch goals I'm excited for these games. Was originally thinking of playing this game with my brother but after all the playthroughs I've watched I'm excited to just go through it on my own. For myself I'm excited for my first back. I'm excited for these games, and the stretch goals are just a bonus. Still love you playing the other side of the hype and appreciate what you have to offer :)
I appreciate the minis, because i paint them so for me is not useless
At the end, Lords of Ragnarok ended up to be a single wave shipping. It was originally planned to be a 2, but they confirmed that they will be able to make it in 1
As far as I can tell from the new game, they haven't really addressed the pacing problem between players. It's just not fun for all your actions in a round to take 2-3 minutes, and then another player's actions in a round take 20-30 minutes simply because they were able to engage with more systems.
The game feels like it's designed for solo with multiplayer tacked on. I'm not really interested in solo gaming, and the game can be really boring while you're waiting. It doesn't feel like any thought was really put into how long systems in the game can take. And, while reducing the amount of grind will help reduce how often players are engaging in these system, the system is still going to bog down the pacing.
I wanted to love Tainted Grail (or even like it), but we put in about 15 hours and at the best of times it was only fine. However, a lot of the time it wasn't fun. Even with the revisions to make the game smoother and less grindy, I don't see the new version working for us. And, it's a shame, because the story was interesting.
It's not that the systems are bad. The combat is a really interesting system of chaining your cards together, deciding which face values you want to remain up (usually the last card played), and manipulating the damage to the monster to keep it from wrecking you in response. But, it's too time consuming for an adventure game. The cooperative implementation (when you do have that opportunity) feels tacked on and cludgy. There's an amazing cooperative boss-battler just waiting to be made from the bones of this combat system, but it's not Tainted Grail.
TG has so much promise. If you're playing solo, it's probably amazing. It's likely really engaging and you'll never be sitting there twiddling your thumbs watching another player get to interact with a bunch of interesting systems.
I'm just glad that TG was a game that had a lot of buzz and people were excited for, because it made it very easy to off-load it locally for what I paid. It would've stung a lot more had the game been difficult to sell.
Good vid. Specially the bit about the minis. I got them for the first game so will be proxying them into KoR.
Smart idea :)
I’m happy the price is better and the game is smaller. Honestly all the extra campaigns stuff would have just made the game more expensive and I doubt I would have gotten it all played through.
I actually skipped the first TG since it looked like it was a bit too overblown. I wanted a more concise experience and I think the new TG looks a lot closer to that for me.
Honestly I love AR games but their minis aren’t very good. The sculpt ideas tend to be really cool, but the actual miniatures don’t live up to the design. I am backing KOR but not the minis. As a painter that it’s against my nature, but they are just not worth painting.
Excited to back this one myself. I was especially glad to see the price point. You definitely have some good points though and it does make me stop and consider. One thing that I see a benefit in is the miniatures. I like to create my own monsters for D&D games and use these crazy miniatures. Unfortunately, like you, I have not started painting my minis. Appreciate your videos.
Yeah I'm happy I have the Etherfields ones and they're in a separate box, because I feel anytime I need minis I can just use those as my substitute. But now that I have one I can't justify owning more than one pack of extraneous minis, even if there is a Goblin Shark in there haha
@@RoomandBoardReviews I don't know, the goblin shark is just too hard to resist!!!
@@ChadHensley It's so funny!!
These type of games, only makes sense to me, if I can play solo, when don't have something else to do..., I only play with a group once a week, and I don't want spend 6 months playing just one game
Gotta say, a huge reason for backing this now instead of buying later at retail (or even not at all) is that every single game AR has put out is waaaay more expensive in retail. Like, even with shipping you will probably still come out with more money selling your used copy, assuming you treated it well (which you will of course 🤨)
That's definitely a mentality I have fallen into, but I think there should be more of a driving force to purchase than just fear of paying more later. For me that is the driving force so I know it's not a sensible purchase for me to make :)
@@RoomandBoardReviews also they seem to reprint often or at least with expansions
@@RoomandBoardReviews its less "fear of paying more later", my reasoning is: I can try the game out - if I like it, I made a good deal, if I don't, I can just sell it again and most likely make a couple bucks as a small bonus.
I think reason 4 needs a bit more elaboration. At the moment, it looks like only the notebook from all the stretch goals won't be part of the core box. Hence, you can quite well compare the value of this Crowdfunding to retail. You pay in this Crowdfunding campaign 122 minimum (including shipping). The official retail price of their latest game (Nemesis Lockdown) is 156. Let us say, they go bonkers on this one and it will be 180. So you save 58 bucks by backing (and get a notebook). BUT it does only take one to two years and retail prices are dropping rapidly. E. G. Tainted grail Fall of Avalon vor box dropped 20% already. That reduces those 180 to 144. So you save only 22 bucks. BUT now inflation kicks in as well. Money you spend now is more worth than money you spend when the product arrives. Let us say, for one year it is 10%. That means you do not pay 122, but 136. So the total adavantage is 8 bucks plus a notebook. And this all assumes that you only pay 23 for shipping and that the core box will really be 180 in retail.
How sad. Awaken Realms used to provide good Kickstarter Deals, but that time is over...
Thanks, Chris. I appreciate what you do. I'm trying to talk myself out of this one as well. Still on the fence, but this helps!
I agree most of your points except the one about "story time vs action time". I think that is a preference thing.
Although I don't agree with all your reasons and having NOT been able to play the original TG, I think that you DO analyze your thought in a good manner and you DO actually make a couple of fair points! So ... having already backed this one and being on the edge of getting the 'All In' pledge just because of the goblin shark xD you made me say to myself yeaaaahhhh you probably don't need the extra minis ... so thank u!
Checking in before watching the video... rn I'm definitely getting the upgrade pack but idk if I'll back the whole thing.... their stretchgoals are looking quite nice... but I've also barely touched the first box. I look forward to your guidance!
Awaken realms is a weird one.
The models are so good, especially sundrop, but can be such a luxury expensive component that adds nothing to gameplay.
Nemesis uses the models well but when you look at games like iss vanguard, beyond the player character models that are used as location markers none of the other models (optional purchases) will see the table enough to make it valuable.
Yeah, I agree. But at least they're pretty clear it's an optional add-on that doesn't really have gameplay implications, and the collectors don't care because they want more stufffff haha
I really want the minis, but you have a point as it’ll probably never get used enough to justify the cost
I mean it depends - I don't often proxy minis but if I do down the line I'm happy I have the Etherfields ones. I just know since I have those extra ones I don't need any other extraneous sets
I think I'm going to get the upgrade pack and hopefully someday be able to finish all the TG that I already own.
You're making good points and are a talented speaker and entertainer. At the same time this could have been a 5 minute video
Hey at least it couldn't be a 2 minute video!
Hahaa I agree with every point you made and am backing it anyway. I really enjoyed the grind of the original and I am looking forward to trying out this version of the system. I have not played it in a while and still the story and game play stays as an itch in the back of my mind that makes me want to go back to it.
Amazing, sounds like a great purchase:) I love when you can't stop thinking about a thing
Really enjoy these
With ISS Vanguard and Lavon Rising on the way there is currently no room for campaign games. Also I already backed three games from them which weren't delivered yet which goes against my #1 rule....maybe I will late pledge.
Yeah I ended up just going through the story book halfway through and not playing and finished the story that way for the most part. The story was soooooo good. But man you would have had to have a great memory for all of it. Which I don't. So I'm glad I just did that. A 10 or 20hr campaign is more up my alley than 40. And this core campaign for me would have been like 100hr if I played the right way. Instead I did it in a 2 or 3 days. #aintnobodygottimefodat
"Just because something is a good deal doesn't necessarily mean it's it's going to get played."
I feel personally attacked by this comment, Chris.
haha Past Chris is a real jerk! He's always telling me to do stuff I don't want to do!
Totally agree with these points. I will definitely not be backing. I have ATO 5 cycle, gloomhaven to finish, and Oathsworn that I will be backing with the 2nd printing, SHEOL, and an all-in for Tanares BG and RPG. I feel like Tainted Grail is a bit of old news for me now. And yeah I agree, Tainted Grail was just okay.
Always an incisive, observant, chuckle-fest. Love your work.
I backed Fall of Avalon 2.0 and really looking forward to it. Thank you for your video because I saved money on the extra minis. I did, however, get Echoes of the Past as well. I always wanted to experience this game and this is my opportunity to get it! Thanks for your thoughts, I subscribed and liked and will check out your channel. Cheers
Awesome! I hope you end up loving it!
To late!!! Already backed. But then I have loved Tainted Grail and while I finished all three campaigns I did have some issues and this seems to fix most of the issues I had with them.
Brilliant Video! Thank you! (Okay, I own TG FoA, Nemesis, Lockdown) I backed it /shame on me ;-)
Got the minis from the Etherfields campaign back then and even though they are a national treasure I can proudly say I wont back them for KoR. Whoopwhoop.
AR to me is the epitome of overbloat. Don't get me wrong, I want Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown, but just the cores will do. TG and TG2 look beautiful, but I will NEVER get these to the table.
I could be wrong but I think the upgrade pack and fall of Avalon 2.0 are 2nd wave shipping.
There is only one wave in this campaign. Everything is expected at the end of 2023
You just convinced me to back it even more :'D
I don't have any game like this
I don't plan on backing the minis
i'm defenitly more interested in story driven content than dungeoncrawler
pricepoint is reasonable
not hundread of expansion or add on and i don't care for them right know, i'll look into it later maybe
i watched gameplay video and it looks like i would enjoy it
can't say if the first one was good or not but a lot of people liked even if there was a lot of issues
it can be played at 1 or 2 player so it's easier for me to table it than any 3+ player game xD
Nice, sounds perfect for you! I hope you love it :)
Fair point about the minis, but boy do I want to feel their sudden presence when they hit the board. The difference between the Hex Leech card art and mini is huge.
The writing does seem quite good in the demo, though as with everything Awaken Realms, there're always awkward lines of things lost in translation. Honestly, they should hire a native English speaker to handle that stuff.
I was really underwhelmed watching people play the original, but this one has drawn me in with a very nice Silent Hillesque mystique.
Hype is real, but Room&Board is the realest! Thanks for the reality check Chris, I always already only considering the KoR base pledge, but after Reason #1 I’m out completely. At the moment I’d be playing solo, and I’d rather play so many other games with my SO then Tainted Grail on my own!
I'm getting the gameplay all in, all of KoR, all of FoA, and I will play all the campaigns at least once ^^
Just need to finish the other 10 epic massive narrative campaign games.
Good. I'm currently backing and really need someone to tell me not to. Hope you do your job well!
The good news is that I'm not at all interested in this campaign for the reasons that you listed but mostly because the idea of "grinding" in any way, shape of form in a narrative driven game is insane to me. I'm tempted by both Tainted Grail and ISS Vanguard's promise but the element of grind just gives me World of Warcraft PTSD.
The bad news is that skipping out on these campaigns made me look at older campaigns that I really wanted to back and skipped the first time around. So as a result, I backed Lobotomy 2 and Primal: The Awakened. Mostly because they have gameplay elements I love combined with a theme that excites me but a small reason is because the Canadian dollar is doing well versus the Euro right now. I probably got a 15% discount for waiting to back the project. Don't you dare use that as a bad reason to back a project!
I was able to say "wait for retail" for Dune: War for Arrakis but will I be tempted by Cthulhu: Death May Die - Season 3? I'll need you to scream "That's too much shipping!" at me when this launches!
The choose-your-own-adventure style of storytelling and massive table-hog location cards ruined the first game for me. I really wish they instead would have just released the deck builder with a great linear campaign and kept it simple. The choices were meaningless anyway as go east or west it doesn't matter you will always end up in the civil war and going to the far west no matter what.
The voice of reason prevails. Thank you.
I think im on chapter 3 of the original and I own all the extra content.(no minis) So why am I even tempted?
Instead tons of plastik, should be option with higly datailed tokens or somethings like this. That was reduce cost of game.
They provided that option in the form of standees. The monster minis add-ons are not required.
Thanks for the video! I've been considering this for a while now, and especially "getting a deal" felt really tempting. But let's face it, even though this IS a great deal, I have enough games to skip this one. I was really close to falling on the wrong side of the fence, have a subscribe as thanks!
Thanks! I'm glad it was helpful!
Too late, already backed. But I’ll watch it anyway and see if you can change my mind!
Thanks, I'm all in...
I just wanted to back a fun Awaken Realms pledge, AND I can sell it for the same money😊
After watching this I actually kinda regret skipping Kings of Ruin 🙈
For me those big, narrative campaigns just scratch a different itch than more mechanical games, and I do think Tainted Grail could be a much better experience if the main story would move at a faster pace. So yeah, the changes sound actually pretty good to me.
On the other hand I still have 2 more campaigns to go through. And ISS Vanguard is waiting to get played, too 🤷♂
i haven't looked into this game much but the few quick overviews I've seen it doesn't seem to have a great gametable presence. like you mentioned the minis are just for show.
another campaign game were i say to myself that I'm glad i went with Agemonia instead! ;)
so, that means its not a good ideea to go full in for 750$ ?
Thank you! :D
So...Did you pledge for Kings Of Ruin after all?😂.Thanx for the video my friend.
You want an epic fantasy board game which tells great stories and with incredible action? War of the Rings 2E… can get it for about £60…just saying 😉
I haven't played the base, I am considering dumping the minis based on your review though.... I am super excited for this one, but I love a lot of the story book games so I feel like I am going to like this as I like sleeping gods and 7th continent. I feel this is a solo game more than a group game.
Definitely I think is better as a solo than group, that way you can just enjoy it at your own pace. Honestly the minis are gorgeous but in Etherfields I keep thinking ah, I could have proxied this and I wouldn't have been happy with how much they're used in the base tainted Grail, very happy I got a late pledge from my neighbor and wasn't tempted to add on anything
@@RoomandBoardReviews You got me to drop those mini's out. I think that you put them on the board for a few minutes and someone else had said that in a review just made me yank it and save hundreds... All the game content, but no minis is probably the right move for me. Thank you!
i was going to back it.. but then let fomo die down and ended up just not going for it.
Sitting on it for a few more days, but probably gonna end up backing. I was tmpted by that extra box of minis but a pass on that now, definitely a good point there. Pretty curious, have you had/what is your "great" narrative game that serves as your bar of comparison for new ones?
It doesn't matter anyway. My wife is never going to let me back this.
Might have something to do with how much I spent on the first game 🤷♂️
Video starts here: th-cam.com/video/SnOplPKORyU/w-d-xo.html
I haven’t played the first Tainted Grail but your comments on the storyline remind me of Sleeping Gods. I heard so many good things about it but as I played through it I realized really, a story designed you can go through in any order and skip most of it…it’s got to work insanely hard to be compelling anyway and it didn’t work for me. I think 7th Continent pulled me in by avoiding real narrative in favor of an evocative setting.
I’m also helped by the fact that I just can’t get into these minis. I resisted on ISS Vanguard and now I’m debating if I will crumble and get them on second wave. But these don’t grab me the same way. But of course that makes it a better value proposition. 😂
That's funny, I like these minis waaay more than ISS Vanguard, I like the curves verses the hard angles I think. That was one main reason I wasn't tempted by ISS, and less by Ragnarok to an extent
I resisted ISS Vanguard because it looked super fiddly having to roll dice for EVERY SINGLE LITTLE ACTION.
Reasons 2, 3, and 5 may have saved me from getting this. I have been eyeing it but I really can't see myself wanting to table this. I wouldn't have considered it if it weren't for reason 1. However, if this is a game of your style, then by all means. The price will give you the value if reasons 2-5 do not remotely apply.
On a side note, I have to disagree with you Chris on the points about AR improving upon their existing works. Maybe this is a bit of an unfair comparison but what I found with the improvements made from Etherfields 1.0 to 2.0 didn't reflect an AR that learns from its criticisms. I think TG will be different because they've been clear on the changes that need to be made for KoR and FoA 2.0, but it won't change the fundamentals of the game that someone, like me, wants a ton of action in the middle of all this story. With Sleeping Gods in the mail to me, Distant Skies, and Oathsworn coming back up on KS, I definitely think TG is gonna be a pass as much as I want to see AR redeem itself since Ether 2.0 (pssst I wanna know what you think of it! God the minis are gorgeous 😭)
Thank you Chris for saving me some cash to which I will throw instead into the fire of Oathsworn instead 🥲
Oh dang that's too bad about Etherfields, I'm looking forward to wave 2 but haven't disliked the slumbers so I didn't think I was going to implement it.
I think the update pack is much harder to revamp than a full new edition, because you're right you're still working with what they already have rather than building from the ground up
What about the Upgrade Box is that worth it???
I contemplated it for me, especially since I haven't finished Tainted Grail, but after shipping it just doesn't seem worth it, I'm fine playing without the tweaks.
@@RoomandBoardReviews Thank you. I haven't even started to Play since I got my Kickstarter. :b Still on my shelf of shame...
10 and a half minutes in and we are only finished with number 5??? This could easily have been a 10 minute video in total.
Yeah if I wanted to not provide a balanced look, sure. But I'll stick with offering both sides and not just being negative for the sake of negative instead. Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.
Wanted the original Tainted Grail but didnt back. I was considering getting the gameplay all in for both but backed out of that. Right now I'm in just for KoR plus the expansion w/o Sundrop. That is a price and level I am comfortable with
I think that's the right call, definitely don't need the all in. Hope you end up loving it!
Yeah just this updated version is way to go - at old pricing to boot
Love your 5 reasons videos as always, and downgraded my pledge lol
Not backing, thanks for the video
Always enjoy watching these. Defnitely not backing this as my friend backed the first one and our group didn't really enjoy it.
Of course said friend is backing this one too so LOL
Haha best of both worlds you can try it out and see!
@@RoomandBoardReviews exactly!
I listened to your comments on Dungeon Universalis and I wonder - would you pick $99 for KoR, a mostly known ruleset, a 20-45 hour campaign, or would you tackle the 124 page rule book for DUN, which at $125 offers 200 hours of campaign play - and 500 hours at about $350 - for the sake of value?
In that instance I'd go for Tainted Grail. Dungeon Universalis is too much of a commitment. Honestly most campaign games at this point are too much of a commitment because of the amount of games they have to usurp to experience their full potential. I'm unfortunately too busy and my gaming goals are different enough to make DUN a non consideration for me, regardless of the deal it provides
@@RoomandBoardReviews That is an interesting position on campaign games. I agree, but I also find that non-campaign games get played less in any given stretch, so the investment to learn/relearn the rules has a worse payoff in some ways. Then again I am mostly playing solo. If I was playing in a group more I would be right there with you.
@@stephendavis7327 As a 11,000hour dota player I am more about playing one a game a ton rather than having 25 short games that will occupy me. Because then I have 25 games getting dusty instead of 1 or 2 while I cycle them.
@@stephendavis7327 Yeah good distinction. I think for solo players, campaign games are definitely the optimal value, especially because you're not on anyone else's timeline but your own, and you don't have to worry about everyone else's commitment level. I bounce around to a few groups, and they often want variation/it's hard to keep their attention, so I know I'll likely end up soloing a few of the ones I was hoping to play with a group.
I really like legacy and campaign games. But I need those games to have a set number of plays. I am playing aeons end legacy atm. It’s a solid game, great mechanics. Meh story. But me and my roomie know that the whole campaign is like 15 games and it’s done. You can plan to play the whole campaign. You can get exited that you are nearing the end and the game will play as a solid non campaign board game after we are done. But a game that sells itself as an endless campaign feels like so much more then it needs to be and so much less then it could have been.
I will take a solid experience with a Beginning middle and end. over a grey and endless expanse leading generally onward until your energy and excitement to explore it is burned away.
That’s why the best dnd or trpg have a set ending. DND games that sorta fade out with interest are the worst. Board games don’t need to emulate that.
First video I have seen you with out the hat. It's not right. Bring the hat back. LOL :)
Haha it's in an Olive Garden in Ohio. Or in Pennsylvania! But I will be making a trip to get it back and right what's wrong with the world!
So.... to back on for the "upgrade pack" for the original (unfinished) game I own? What say you?
I contemplated it, but I decided that with the shipping the cost really wasn't worth it for me. I imagine it wouldn't change all that much, and I always reject the notion of needing an expansion to fix a game/make it playable. I'm personally fine how it is and playing it as the first version.
don't get the minis. I've bought all of them through the campaigns and sold all of them and kept the base games. they are unnecessary
Why didn’t you make a video for dune when it’s crossed a million 🤔
It only crossed it in its last few days so I didn't have time unfortunately.
@@RoomandBoardReviews I just love your videos 🥰 i also funded it because you didn’t talk me out of it 😵💫
WTF... why did u get Etherfields?! :O
See, the minis may be overkill... Unless you do a lot of TTRPG horror games and want some really creepy stuff to weird out your players. 😆 I actually really appreciate the minis being separated... Even though I often keep picking them up. I also don't really understand the pushback to the minimal stretch goals and limited or no expansions. I'm pretty burnt out on massive games with a dozen boxes. I've only been backing games for two years and I'm already nearly out of space. I'd also much prefer a separate campaign for expansions so you have time to play the core game before deciding you want more. Given the shipping crisis and costs to make games anymore, I have a hunch this is where a lot of companies are heading, and I'm perfectly ok with that.
Yeah I think that would always be a great call. It's going to be very rare for me to get expansions before trying the main game from here on out for the same reason
Not interested, but for painting minis, $70 for 20 minis isn't a bad deal if they look good. And they seem pretty high quality. Generally anything in the $5 or less isn't bad. And that's for single human sized minis, so if some bosses or huge monsters are in there, so much the better.
But yeah, sounds like they don't match the gameplay, so . . . Nah.
Yeah that's what I've heard as well. And it is nice they come in a separate box so it's easier to proxy them for other games if that's your thing
I keep telling myself this but I have like 100lbs worth of minis still unpainted and a baby on the way so I have no idea when they'll get painted lol
@@shawnhilliard I counted how many I have coming from various kickstarters and gamefounds. I thought, hey, could do one a day and start getting caught up, knock these out. . . . I'm scared of the number I got. My recommendation, invest in speed paints.
Also congrats on the kid; as a fellow parent it's fun. Sometimes. Mostly good. Really. Make sure to stock up on coffee.
Thank you very much, a voice of reason convincing me to pass on Kings of Ruin :)
Thanks, especially for 5th or rather the reason #1.
In order:
#5 - I don't care about minis. "mini addons" were never a thing I was going to even consider buying. Current standee SG is simply perfect replacement for those boxes full of minis. However, there was this one single figurine in Etherfields … if only I wasn't late to the party, I'd buy just that resin figurine separately from the game. If they'd offer it painted (not sundropped, painted), I'd probably go for that as well. "Luckily", I was too late and that specific figurine was already gone, and other figurines weren't pulling me in.
#4 - campaign is just about to end and SGs look … ok? I mean, just ok, nothing that really pushes me one way or the other. Still, value added is something that does pull me in. ;)
#3 - I've played only a single campaign game so far and that is Pandemic: Legacy, season 0. I am not sure one can really call it a narrative game ;) Not having a true experience of this kind, I was interested in the original before, but I still did not get it. New campaign pushes me into the buyer (or rather a backer) zone again.
#2 - I got lured by the retail deals many times in the past. Crowdfunding campaigns so far were never too good of a deal. Unless there are incredibly good exclusives (exclusive SG), deal is never good, because of delivery costs. Simply speaking - retail price is usually around same level as the campaign price. Then, on top of that I have to pay e.g. $20 for delivery, then add taxes and other duties (not a case for this exact campaign, since those are hidden in delivery cost, but it's still a VERY real and VERY hurting thing for any e.g. US based campaign) versus retail delivery price which would be … most likely $0. To me that question becomes a question whether SGs are worth the delivery price and all that waiting.
#1 - now this reason just really hit me. This made me think, that any "gameplay focused" game and book reading might offer me a much better experience at lower price, than game that is focusing on story more than a gameplay itself. Luckily, I can skip it and decide to get it when it hits retail stores. Maybe by that time I will have a chance to play some other big narrative game. So for now, you're saving my money :)
Happily did not back. Even if it was going to be my favorite game it still wouldn't be worth it.
We need more voice of reason - it's a consumer culture though. We just have soooo much. This culture is never starving for food - entertainment has replaced that need. Now people hunger for the next dumb play thing.
Number 2
Man I hate it when you speak reason and talk me out of backing games. I was interested in Tainted Grail FOA, and watched a bunch of stuff on it and KoR looked like it fixed a lot of stuff. But really a story game, if I play it I would just end up playing solo. Which is fine, but not what I like playing games for.
Reason 6: It will be the ruin of your wallet.
Reason #1, the base game is free on Xbox game pass, get it, play it, realize you never play it.
Congratulations, you're down on the game for the exact things that differentiate it from other random combat-focused dungeon crawlers! Way to not see the woods for all the trees... 🤦♂️
I thought I was going to buy this no questions asked... But the combat is so bad
There are no reasons to not back tainted grail. 😜
Just kidding, I appreciate your Videos, but here I will skip because I love the game.