Welcome, fanfic fam! Subscribe to the channel for more content from a former fic writer who has transitioned to professional writing. *She blushes as her eyebrows raise and she lets out a breath she didn't know she was holding.*
Have a question? I am writing a Harry Potter based fan fiction that is also part cannon pairing based and part fannon pairing based. I am wondering. If I wanted to actually get it published and see it, as long as I change certain names and certain locations; could I pass it off as my own as a professional writer? Also is it a good idea to continue writing fanfic even as a professional writer? I ask that second question because I quite enjoy writing fan fiction.
School teachers tell their students that they need to use everything but 'said', but take something like that to a real editor or publishing house, and they'll laugh you out of the city.
Personally, I think the word "said" is like "the": innocuous and your average reader would've sort of automatically filter that word out as they read the story. As for why people are incredibly salty about "said", I don't know lol Thesaurus is fine and all, but in certain situations, I had found that just "said" worked well enough. No need for "spoke", "voiced out", "yelled", "whispered", etc unless situation requires.
RIIIGHT I mean sometimes a colorful word is cool but we dont need to avoid "said" like the plauge, I hope elementary/middle school teachers have caught on by now
Yes and no. You're caught in the middle of the "Said Is Dead" argument, and the truth of the matter is, it doesn't have to be all one or the other. "Said" is natural, and nearly invisible... until it's all that you hear anymore. Then it's super auspicious. It's fine to use other words in your dialogue tags, but it's also cringe-worthy to keep using different descriptors for speech all the time. Use both, and have passages where you don't use any.
OOH also I think a big thing I've noticed in my writing that comes from a background in (or a history of) fanfiction is too much exposition. Obvi exposition is a more general topic not specific to fanfiction, but I think what happened is I would want to spend so much time in my fanfiction that I would just write more and more details to slow the plot down so that I could extend the escapism. I think that had a major effect on my pacing, which I'm working on improving now.
what's wrong with blushing though? I mean I know a guy at work that blushes if you look at him too long. I can see how characters might do it... I don't blush but I also have a warmer complexion so even if i did it probably wouldn't be that noticeable anyway.
Another big one I find in Fanfiction (particulatly gay fanfiction) is not refering a charater so their pronoun or name. For example if someone was writing Darry fanfiction instead of saying "Draco moved closer" they might say "the slytherin moved closer" or "the blonde moved closer". This always bugs me and I have only seen it in the fanfiction comunity not really in published novels.
I ONLY pull that one when I’ve used theyre name too much. I barely do it. I HATE calling eyes orbs it doesn’t seem right... it’s weird... also another pet peeve. When people overuse the word “quirky” it is ANNOYING.
"The shorter male gently stroked his ash blonde hair" pretty much every BakuDeku fic ever. I never really minded, except for when they always say "the shorter male". It gets annoying.
The biggest tell for me is episodic writing. When each chapter feels like a short story that doesnt quite move along a greater plot, that is a huge sign the author is coming from fanfiction, because that's essentially how fanfic chapters are written and published, one at a time.
@@KaizenKitty All of the things on this list dont "necessarily" mean someone came from fanfiction, they're just common tells if someone did and hasnt adjusted their writing.
Same. My first book was an original story. It was very dialogue-taggy and it had no plot it was basically “this homeless girl meets this guy his sister has a crush on homeless girl and magically homeless girl is no longer homeless and lifes magically going great for her” LOL
My favorite piece of advice was the one about a character blushing. I remember being on stage in eighth grade, receiving a pretty meaningless award for Chorus, and my body felt like it couldn’t cool down for a couple of seconds. According to my friends, however, my face was red and pink the entire time I was receiving the award and for the entirety of the last song. You don’t always know that you’re blushing. This has been my TEDtalk.
Schools hammer into you not to overuse anything. “Said”, the characters names, even sentence structure (kinda agree with that one). I remember writing about Andrew Johnson (17th president) in fourth grade and you were allowed to use just the last name once, the full name once, and Mr.last name once per paragraph. This led to me using “The man” and “He” when I really needed it to be specific. Schools aren’t so good at creative writing
@@khatunamezvrishvili6211 You have to learn to do it right before you can learn to do it 'wrong'. Schools can only give you the basics when they're trying to get everyone up to the same level. Teaching someone to be creative? Nigh on impossible.
also, turning Active sentences into Passive Sentences because we automatically do Active aparrently and so they need to teach us to write in Passives. Urgh
I hate that POV problem with describing your character's emotion through an action they can't actually see. In the first draft stage I'll throw in some trash like 'She felt her eyebrows raise' and then fix it in the second draft. Otherwise I sit there for half an hour! Love that you speak about fanfic from an honest but fond perspective - would love more fanfic-themed videos if you have them :)
I just wrote a list of words that are ALWAYS in my cringeworthy passages so I can find them easier and delete. "Felt' is on the top of the list. So is 'seemed.' I still do it all the time, but at least I found a way to tear it out. (The list has about 20 things on it and is still growing.)
@@teshara a writing class I took on Coursera.org had a list like this, "padding" words I think they called it. It cuts your prose down pretty tight without a lot of effort. The class was through Wesleyan Uni (it's free, unless you want to get peer reviews of your work), worth a look if you're interested in improving your prose in general. Making your own list is a great idea!
I feel like first-person writing lends itself to the "fanfic feeling" a lot and I'm really not a fan of it. First-person is very limiting, and makes author-avatars so much more obvious and intrusive. It's like you're reading someone's diary. I guess it works for YA but I prefer third person limited any day.
My biggest struggle is descriptions. I have to work so much on figuring out what is relevant to the story and what I can cut. I always have to add more things. XD
Total opposite for me. I discard almost everything as irrelevant, so that my first draft usually reads only slightly more detailed than a police report :P
Lol yeah I’m the same. I keep getting told by everyone who reads my writing that its very concise and that it needs more description. I feel like adding is easier than taking away though so its not too bad.
@@DxityDoo That's great then! :D I guess no one is perfect on the first draft we just have to keep working and hopefully one day it will be a great book.
Well, actually, whenever someone looks at me awkwardly, I smirk and wag my eyebrows around as a way of saying "I see you..." and "I will keep doing this until you look away. People don't look at me unless I talk to them now. I'm proud.
“eye-based reactions & POV hopping” “anything where you’re describing your reaction with the main characters eyes- the *pov character’s* eyes” me, a not-so-big-fan-of-first-person-pov fanfiction writer: **laughs in third-person**
"Most people don't use their eyebrows in excess." Me, who's family and friends have always told her she is CONSTANTLY excessively using her eyebrows to express things: What?! They don't?
my eyebrows are apparently so expressive that some kid was imitating it when i was arguing with him in like 5th grade- i literally only remember that bcz it's the first time anyone's pointed that out abt me
@@prplraven arm gesticulation is a lot more common of a physical communication tool than eyebrow waggling, raising, etc. when i am having conversations with people, they always use their hands or arms to help convey what theyre saying, but rarely are eyes/eyebrows a point of interest unless the person is silently communicating. i mean if you dont like what she is saying, you dont have to watch it.
As someone who has pretty active eyebrows in conversations (I raise one a lot when incredulous, confused (like I'm asking for clarification), etc.), eyebrow movements in books don't bother me. Plus, you can feel when you raise your eyebrows. I guess I don't understand how that one takes you out of the POV.
that's true: in moderation, eyebrows can be a good tell for several different emotions, especially in cases where it's a character you can't see into the mind of, and have to read his emotions with visual cues. but like everything, if you do it too much it kind of gets like, "oh, does this character just not have any functioning parts of their body aside from their eyebrows". use the eyebrows in tandem with visual cues with other parts of the body. and if you can, if you're writing in first person try to minimize cues that are externally seen, as opposed to internally felt. edit: I kind of strayed from the topic and didn't directly answer the question, sorry ^^
Kaitlyn Barkley It’s also the writing. “His eyebrows jumped” sounds better than “he felt his eyebrows jump”, since “felt” is filler. Think “seem”. While the verbs are helpful, there’s a time and a place.
Well because when you're in conversations I doubt you're aware of every single movement your body does, are you? My eyebrows are active too, but the thing is I don't notice that when I'm in conversations because my mind is focused on whatever topic I'm talking about and not my body movements. The only reason why I know my eyebrows move a lot is because my friends told me that I've very expressive eyebrows. And the movement of eyebrows aren't the only indicator you know, if you ONLY describe the eyebrows then it's gonna be silly because we're always making gestures with our body, not just eyebrows. Eyes squinting/widening, pursing our lips, hand gestures, straight sitting position or slouching, etc. If you only describe the eyebrows, then the character is going to come across as boring and unrealistic.
I use my eyebrows a lot. Lot's of people remark on it. I am, however, never aware of doing it. Therefore, any character being aware of their own eyebrow movements throws me out of the POV and out of the story.
As a reader things I hate in fanfic are the terms “eye bulging,” “ jaw dropped to the floor,” and first person POV. Also excessive description of clothing and makeup.
I know Star Wars has Anakin and Han. Though Luke and Obi-Wan are sometimes used. I think. I don't read slash so I am going by what I see in descriptions.
@@BlueDragonknight375 Dude, I read Star Wars fic too but I don't think we're using the same sites, lol. When I see it, it's usually Obi Wan or Poe, with the occasional Han, maybe Anakin, and whenever I see Luke written romantically, it's never him being all suave and sexy, he's usually a massive heckin dork
What is your fandom of choice? We could enlighten you ;) I can think of some characters for my favorite fandoms, but those characters DO tend to be overly sexual, smug, flirty and devilish in canon as well so...in all of those cases, the fandoms just kinda ran with it?
I absolutely know when I'm blushing, and shouldn't have to use a long winded way of describing it if it, "I felt my cheeks grow hot" is not automatically better than just saying I blushed; I'd rather not wax poetic about blushing because it's normally from embarrassment, not from a hot guy noticing me. People you are talking to can see you blushing and it changes how they talk to you sometimes, so it is relevant to the conversation in those cases.
@@annana6098 Same here. I blush easily, unfortunately. And most of the time I can feel myself blushing and that'll make everything so much more embarrassing/awkward for me.
That just seems like amateur writing in general. I'm old enough to remember when fanfic wasn't really a thing. There were people going to conventions and exchanging memographed sheets of Star Trek Kirk/Spock fic, but there wasn't an internet. But, these bad writings things showed up all the time in Harlequin, Signature & Zebra paperback romances--the kind where the imprint was more important than the author's name and they sold a lot of them through monthly subscriptions. I can't say for sure those authors weren't writing fanfic, but since it was a really underground thing, I doubt they were. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the authors were young and first starting out--since some of the more successful ones are still writing books 30-40 years later.
I've seen some articles from the academic side of fandom about how the early K/S writers were using the tropes common in romance novels, because those were the models they had for writing a romantic story.
@@werelemur1138 That makes sense. There's also the fact that certain tropes are just very functional for certain genres. Fanfic or profic, there's only so many ways for two characters to fall in love. Of course there's no accounting for weird ideas that get to be popular for awhile then disappear--those tend to diverge between pro/fanfic. Like fanfic is doing coffee shop AUs and romance novels are suddenly heavy on biker stories.
This. Long before I ever heard of fanfic, I consumed mass quantities of romance novels and soap operas and pretty much all these tropes were present in droves. Soaps specifically do close ups of character's eyes for intense dramatic expression and melodramatic romantic and villain monologues were common. Dialogue tags as well, heroines sighed, heroes growled, etc...basically all of my bad writing habits came from there. If anything fanfic writing improved my writing because of the way they police it(not that it is a good thing) but you get influenced by people talking about the stuff they hate in writing....to this day I cringe at "the tall man, the younger woman, the bushy haired girl etc... as constant descriptors rather than character names or simple pronouns.... because it got called out so much in certain fanfic circles as bad writing.
These are awesome reminders. I worry I fall victim to the “said” avoidance but I catch myself saying replied/answered/remarked often. I also write only in third person so there’s a weird freedom with describing characters physical attributes they wouldn’t notice because I’m not limited to POV. But I have to remind myself that I write fanfiction for fun and escapism that I never publish anywhere so I can push to be a better writer but I shouldn’t berate myself for any of these pitfalls I may end up in!
I associate these habits with just young/novice writers generally---and, since youngsters tend to gravitate to fan fiction, it makes sense that these bad habits are now associated with fan fic in particular. I did several of these no-no's as a kid.
My first fanfic was actually meant to look more like a caricature, since the character had forgotten the basics in human communication and was re-learning them. If our first fanfics are meant to suck, then I think we should try to add a meaning behind it. I at least felt confortable in doing it.
I’m actually proud of myself that I only fall into the first one. I’m working on it and I’ve found that my writing has become more immersive. Another one I would like to add: STORY MOVES ALONG TOO QUICKLY!!!!! Like characters will meet and a week later they are eating each others faces off and I hate it
Lol same I am very guilty of fast moving plots Although it's not that I make them kiss after two days of knowing each other, and more that I timeskip a *lot* to get to the ""good bit""
Also, thank you. I've been writing mostly fanfic since the 90s and my family keeps telling me that I'll never publish until I stop "wasting my time" with it. It's all practice to me (and a joy) and I recently started on what I hope will be my first original novel, so it's good to hear a video like this that talks about what I'll need to drop without any bashing of what I consider a great genre.
I feel like the problem with younger writers and "said", as I saw someone else point out, is that teachers tell us not to use it. English teachers up until I started high school used to drill into my head that "said" was an awful word that should never be used if avoidable etc., etc. so I feel like that's where the problem stems from for me, and some others as well.
I do the eye thing SO MUCH. It's gotten to the point when I obviously know it's not working/not good writing, but I still find myself unconsciously doing it. I CANT STOP
Thanks so much for the tips, as someone who writes fanfic and is constantly trying to improve and work on catching myself on troupes, there were a lot of good points and reminders. Even when I write fanfic, I don't want it to sound too much like fanfic if you get what I'm saying. The thing I struggle with the most is to keep POV and not wandering around because I want to cover what's going on else where lol. I guess it's just a slow process of improving. Best wishes my fellow writers!!!
I'm actually kind of happy I don't do any of these even though I'm still writing fanfictions as well as original stories and have a book published xD I thought I'd hit all these bad things but I actually don't do any of them. Kind of shocked, but proud of myself :)
Saving this so I can watch this religiously to get better authoring. I'm not even going to admit how called out I feel, but it's good!! I want to be better dude, I've wanted a career in writing professionally. Your the first person I've came across on YT that really explained everything so well, it's like... So much appreciated.
Thank you for the 4th and 5th one. I’m zero drafting, and now that I know these (I personally know that I do them still), I can catch them early. Plus I can practice/work on catching myself in general when I want to write these types of description.
The thing about using every word but "said" might be a bad teacher thing, because when I was in high school one of my English teachers decided to teach us to write properly and one of her bits of instruction was that we had to use any synonym for "said" except "said" and "asked". To some degree I think she was just trying to get us to expand our vocabularies, but it's also one of those high school lessons I ended up having to unlearn because it's actually bad advice. Fun fact, one of my history teachers had to teach us to write essays because she assigned us an essay, the entire class failed it and she realized none of us had learned how to write essays from English.
What's funny to me about these points about being too specific and using too many words to describe things in fics is that for my autistic ass, it’s literally the opposite, the published books oftentimes feel too fast and under-described to me, and I fell in love with fics mostly because for the first time while reading I could know the exact tone of voice of the characters speaking, their expressions and intentions and everyone’s reactions in real-time and it felt so wonderful and comforting that I often miss it in professional books
My first fanfic was basically my practise round for my writing. Over the course of the fanfic, I finally managed to develop my own style of writing and that inspired me to write my first actual book. Though my book is not yet completed, I can assure you that I hardly ever fall down these fanfic rabbit holes. For me, my fanfics were more for writing practice and experimenting with different characters, plots and genres. The reason most of my fanfics have these cliche lines in them is that I'm catering to an audience that loves this in a fanfic story. You would be lying if you said you didn't love those cheesy romance lines in a fanfic and so that's the reason I use them in my fanfics. You can't tell me you don't like these because my fanfic became quite popular. When writing my proper book, I cut many of these tropes out because I knew that I was no longer writing for fanfic readers.
There are certain reactions selves do observe, like flinching, sudden changes in face temperature, when a character snaps their eyes after staring off into space and realizes that their surroundings are unfocused.
The melodrama I object to is more adult characters venting their emotions and angst like teenagers or children. Like the whole, I mishear a conversation and now I'm going to YELL angrily and run away and sob desperately... grown men and women have feelings but they generally act more restrained than that. And I know, we're all affected when a usually stoic character's barriers are down, but OOC melodrama pushes it through to ridiculous. I suppose I encounter this problem because I'm usually searching through hurt-comfort tags lol, so I do it to myself!
THE POV THING- OH MY GOD I JUST NOTICED MISTAKES IN MY FANFIC THANK YOU (so glad it hasn’t blew up at all) It’s my first fanfic and I’m honestly not surprised ahah
You seem like a really pleasant (and kind) person. It makes me happy to listen to you. : ) I hope you’re having a good week, and if you’re not, make sure to do something that makes you happy, you deserve it.
People also speak with their eyes WAY more than they think. If you’re writing a character talking to someone else, the POV character WILL notice these things. I notice myself raising my eyebrows all the time, too, so it’s not ‘unrealistic’ at all. It may seem repetitive in writing, but the actual action is 100% something people do all. You did it a lot in this video.
OMG I know I'm 2 years behind on this video but I have to comment on the fact that she is describing almost everything I tend to do in my writing lol! Especially focusing on facial expressions and the eyebrows. I try so hard not to have everyone furrow, arch, quirk, or raise their brows. For some ungodly reason I can't figure out why I feel the need to write about their eyes/eyebrows and mouth. It literally HAUNTS me!
One thing that has to stop is romanticizing depression and cutting among teenagers in fanfiction. I get that it's something that teens can relate to, but very often you don't see the charachter doing something about it or seek help. They are usually portayed as a victim, abused by their parents, stepfathers or bullied in school, but you don't see them standing up for themselves.
I've read a ton of FF, and am writing my own now. One of the things that makes me crazy is the use of bespeckled, silverette, etc. We all know the character has silver hair or wears glasses. Stop doing that. It's perfectly fine to you he, him, she, her, etc. Or, if only two characters are there, you don't need to indicate which one is talking or doing in every line. The characters should be different enough to bounce the dialog back and forth without identifying the speaker every time.
first: I love this video since I started writing FF again and these tips are great. Also this video showed me that my teacher really did well as several of these tips were things I already watched out for. I love your videos, they are very informative and useful.
These tips are really good fir non fanfic writers/readers whom are just starting as well. Lots of younger writers tend to do these things to make their writing because of how schools teach "proper" writing. Im currently writing a historical-fiction horror novel myself. ^_^ I'll definitely be looking over in case i have done any of these in my current chapters
Yasss, I'm saving this. I write both fanfic and originals, and since I've never published an original novel (just a short, once, in a now defunct journal), this is something I need to keep in mind. The not using "said" was something a lot of creative writing teachers used to drill when I was in school and college.
They're far and inbetween but my favorite fanfic finds are the kind that will take simple movie characters (often background characters who are only meant to be an exaggerated background-- the bad boy or the comedy releif friend, but sometimes these can be main characters as well) and give them a more fulfilling and relatable internal dialogue. I guess it can be more accurately described as characters studies? Idk I just always think fics like those are a mark of a good writer. (Which isn't to say other authors aren't, of course!)
i needed this wake up call. especially with the action tags and bond villains. i was so terrified of using the word 'said' back then, oh lord. i can't believe it took this long to realize my habits until i decided to find a video like 'why you're bad at fanfiction'.
English isn't my first language (I am German) and although I have often been told, that I'm on par with a native speaker, there are quite a few things I keep messing up. Adjectives vs. adverbs fall into that category (when to use which to set the right tone for the story/chapter/scene). I am also prone to mixing up tenses (present and past tense most notably). I continuously go through what I've written from top to bottom while writing to make sure I stay in the correct tense. I am prone to internal monologuing and losing character voices, too (i.e. when every character starts to sound exactly the same). My biggest writing vice, though, is an overuse of sarcasm. I'm still working on it, though I haven't uploaded anything in a long time (close to 10 years). I am guilty of some of the things you mentioned, as well, so I will examine my writing carefully for those bad habits, too. Thank you for pointing them out. I feel that your perspective as a professional is rather insightful for a hobby writer like myself. However, I respectfully disagree on the subject of dialogue tags. There are so many ways the way we speak change the meaning of what is said. It works within any context I can imagine. Though I expect all things in moderation is key here. Example: "I like tea", she said.
How can people see if you've written fanfiction before? Please answer because I wanna improve my writing skills to look good. I have written Warrior Cats fanfictions, does that count?
@@iclynnx it's mostly the tropes that they can be spotted and also because of the characters. There's also this thing often where the female protagonist think that every other female (except for her bff) is a superficial person with no brain...
Why yes, the languages do often fight for dominance in multicultural environments. -) And I concur that the maritime shipping communities would be pretty knowledgeable about said phenomenon, it being closely related to international trade and such... -)))
You have to understand Bad boys baaaaaaad past. He was born with a rare disease that makes his face look like he is constantly smirking. He gets frustrated and depressive after some time because when he grew up he had no chance of speaking to a girl. Girls always thought he was a pervert because he kept smirking. It became so bad that he saw no other way than using his desease for something good. He started playing poker. Because he was allways smirking nobody could tell what he felt like. The perfect poker face. There he met some bad and criminal people, his future friends. He finally felt accepted. He was happy. They taught him how to use his smirking face, so woman will find him sexy. He did and became not only addicted to poker but also to woman and drugs. Because his friends are addicted to drugs and they lost all their money while playing poker with Bad boy so they had to pay their depts with drugs. Things couldn't get worse...that is what he said. However his twin brother Good boy had a nice, sexey girlfriend. Her name was Mary sue. Of course Bad boy would get jealous. The reason for that is that Good boy had it all since they were born: a normal face, the love and hopes of their parents and now a nice girlfriend. He had an fantastic idea and cursed the 3 of them with a dark magic spell. You know he had drugs. What he didn't know...there was a magic drink under the drugs. There he got his magic. The 3 of them shall be reborn with different names each time. Every time Bad boy trys to steel Mary sue (now also known as Sky, Angel, Destiny etc.) and every time he fails. Because the good allways wins in fanfictions (except when it doesn't). Now it is your turn. Go to wattpad and read and write their story. Because their story hasn't ended yet.
I haven't read Fifty Shades of Grey, but one out-of-context sentence doesn't prove anything. The only part that annoys me about the quote you gave is that I can't stand books written in present tense. Then again, I put up with it all the time in cruddy online roleplays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'd probably get ticked off reading a published book that ended sentences in random emoticons, too. ;^)
@@PrismCasillica "Golden orbs clashed with azure orbs in the war-torn skies of Aurelia, as the Librarian raised his staff adorned with a thousand holy scriptures, penetrating the hostile blackness of the night with the gilded beacon of his unshakeable faith in the God-Emperor. The smug grin contorting the visage of the Eldar Farseer slowly melted off her face - followed by the rest of her head as a thousand fists of fury rained down onto the smouldering terrain: a golden torrent of His sacred Judgement and divine Retribution. The reprehensible Xenos broke their ranks and took flight, yet were swiftly greeted by the bolters and chainswords of the 3d Company. On that day, every single Eldar was put to the sword." -)))
I feel like teachers really screwed over future writers with exercises like that. But I took English class all the way through high school, and in my last year, the teacher basically told us to throw all of the stuff we'd learned previously out the window. I was like, "Well what was the fucking point?" But I was also grateful for it, because I finally felt like I had breathing room in the creative writing exercise.
I ignored all my teachers since they couldn't even use the correct English grammar, even English teachers which was frustrating. You know it's bad when you're quietly correcting your English teachers' English :/
@@tsundereyoongi3869 same here. I'm from a non-english speaking country and I've met multiple English teachers who have very broken grammar. They usually liked to give me shitty grades if I spoke up about their grammar too, so I just learned to shut up in English
@@krixkhaos the same thing happens with and. Middle school teachers tell you to not start a sentence with it. I think it's because in middle school, learning to use more things instead of said and, well, and, helps you a lot to develop your writing and to make it more grown-upish. When you can control your writing though, those things are kinda useless because you don't need them anymore.
Don’t blame fanfic for that! It’s the English teachers. They always say “never use “said”, it’s a flat and boring word”. And heaven forbid you use “get”.
They try and push you away from those words in school because they want you to think creatively. That doesn't mean never, just attempt to find other ways to express what you are trying to say so that your writing is dynamic.
Overusing of pronouns. Just. Say. The. Name. “The male walked over, looking at the tree. ‘What a lovely tree,’ said the green-eyed blonde. The young man proceeded to walk over to the other side of the yard. Once he had sat down, the human being proceeded to eat his sandwich. The sandwich was delicious, decided the carbon-based life form presently residing on planet Earth.”
There's overdoing it, certainly, but sometimes it's nice to break things up. Like every other point on this blog, it comes down to balance... Don't use one or the other exclusively; it's a blend.
"Just. Say. The. Name." Ok, I will. Joshua walked over, looking at the tree. 'What a lovely tree,' said Joshua. Joshua proceeded to walk over to the other side of the yard. Once Joshua had sat down, Joshua proceeded to eat Joshua's sandwich. The sandwich was delicious, decided Joshua. I just said the name. do you honestly think it's better?
@@sigurdgram Joshua walked over, looking at the tree. 'What a lovely tree,' he said. He proceeded to walk over to the other side of the yard. Once he had sat down, he proceeded to eat his sandwich. The sandwich was delicious, he decided.
sigurdgram yo I was just saying that all of these fanfiction writers that refuse to say the name is annoying, I didn’t say you can never use pronouns and stuff-
this is such a big pet peeve of mine, i used to do it all the time and i still catch myself switching tenses sometimes. this is why you need a beta reader lol
Would you believe me if I said that I do this all the time. And when I go back and fix them, I end up confusing myself even more. It's like, I'm so used to seeing these things that they've just integrated themselves into my grammar and syntax.
The thing about is that in day to day basis people mix present and past tense a LOT and I guess it's present in fanfics as a way to make it more seamless, more unpolished, in a way? In many cases it is a bad habit but it can make a fic easier to digest.
i understand this, but when you blush you can feel your face heat up. so something better to write would be "my face began to heat up" or something like that haha
“I love you!!” He exclaimed, hot tears cascading down his cheeks like a waterfall, making his crystalline blue orbs with gold reflects sparkle in the moonlight. I gasped, my eyes widened and I felt myself blush bright red. “I-I love you too.” I cried, letting go of the breath I didn’t know I was holding”
A Draco in leather pants is a villainous character that's portrayed way more positively in fanworks than in the original work, such as Monika from DDLC and Gavin Reed from Detroit: Become Human. Although they may overlap with the fanon Draco because those are usually attractive characters.
@@robokill387 I'm going by TV Trope's definition of Draco in Leather Pants, it's a little broader than the Fanon Draco as it doesn't mention oversexualization as a main point. The Ice King from Adventure Time and Marx from Kirby's games are Dracos in Leather Pants according to TV Tropes, but I wouldn't call them Fanon Dracos.
My grade 3 teacher told me once, "you can't just use said," which lead to messy dialogue tags that weren't fully realized until I watched this video. Thank you. I will improve Oh Great One.
Same! I never wrote fanfic but my elementary school teachers always said it was repetitive/novice of me to use "said" more than once or twice per report. Jump 10 years ahead and now all my characters "proclaim," "recite" and "dictate"!
That's crazy how much school has changed. Because when we were in school teachers said to use said because its invisible and only use tags when important moments happen. Lol weird 😊
the overuse of dialogue tags makes me so angry now because it took me so long to break it. i dont know if its just in my area, but in elementary/middle school, using "said" was frowned upon, and when being taught english, theyd bring out all these lists of words to use instead. thanks for that, school system:/
Canadian here. I think *everybody* got slapped with that bad advice when we were kids, no matter where we were, and now we're a heap of walking bad habits that need breaking before we can actually write well again. THANKS, EDUCATION!
Ejaculated? That whole, "You keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means," bit from The Princess Bride comes to mind. (Yes, I know it can mean to, "suddenly say something," but that usage is dated and modern readers think of it in...um, another sense.)
ik like they can be very weird sometimes, this isn't a dialogue tag but in the chamber of secrets it said a ' there was a very pregnant pause.' like wtf does that mean
👁👄👁 i havent done this but ive done something in a way like it. Like the character was grabbing clothes out of his closet with a towel wrapped around him and like she was staring and he turned around and got really close to her before laughing and going to get dressed
General comment to people struggling with any of these: Go buy the book: The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writers Guide to Character Expression. It gives you so many ideas of how to show emotion without reusing the same ones over and over. It also includes internal reactions for when you’re describing your POV character. It’s helped me filter out so many of these mistakes in my writing.
Same. I don't really go down the "said (insert adverb)" route unless the situation specifically calls for it. Simpler to just say "he shouted, he cajoled, he simpered" etc, because it gets to the point faster? I prefer snappy and instantly understandable in writing.
1:38: Overused dialogue tags. 2:51: The Over The Top Rakish Love Interest (Fanon Draco) 4:51: Melodrama (And Villain Monologuing) 7:19: Eye-based Reactions and POV Hopping
in WH40K: 1) guilty as charged. There's seemingly a competition on who invents the most repulsive phrasing to describe the simple act of speaking. Words are, therefore, vomited, excreted and bled out of the speaker's mouth - which, considering the fandom, may sometimes be a literal horrifying reality. -)) 2) In the Grim Darkness of the far Future, there is ONLY war. -) As one man put it, "love-hope-prosperity have been replaced by war, death and destruction: not necessarily in that order, but always in mass quantities". 3) Both sides monologue to their heart's content! ) The Heretics never fail to stress how the God-Emperor is nothing but a rotten corpse sitting on the golden (toilet) ahem, throne; while the Loyalists go on and on about how their Faith in said Emperor is a firmly erect golden Pinnacle of Righteous Might, and is thus harder than adamantium. 4) Is it "eye-based" if the psyker's eyes literally pop out upon seeing the Greater Daemon's raging murderboner? -)) 5) In the Grim Darkness of the far Future, humal lifespan is so short that no character's POV can ever last beyond 10-15 minutes, thereby making the aforementioned hopping a functional necessity. -)))
I don’t think eye-based reactions are really that bad. If I talk to someone, I read their emotions through their eyes and mouth. Take those away and how is your MC going to react to people? I also raise my eye brows on purpose if I’m skeptical or surprised. I don’t see what the big deal is it shows up once or twice in fiction. I do it and I know other people do it.
@@WritingSch When I use eye-based reactions, they're always intentional motions like a character intentionally raising his eyebrows for comedic purposes (Intentional "Keven silently arced his eyebrows in stunned disbelief his friend would say something so dumb" versus subconscious "Kevin's eyebrows raised in surprise"), or EXTREME reactions like a delayed reaction when someone realizes someone's casually admitted to literal murder to them. Things that actually WOULD make your eyes widen melodramatically. RARELY, they're EXTREMELY expressive characters (someone mentioned how Emilia Clarke actually DOES use her eyebrows like a fanfiction character), but when I do that, I'm careful to make it very explicit that they're usually expressive. But RARE is the operative word there. Doing it a few times in a single work might work. Doing it a few times in a paragraph does not. But the example in the pinned comment ("She blushes as her eyebrows raise and she lets out a breath she didn't know she was holding.") is just way too much no matter what. Especially when she notices she let out a breath she didn't notice she was holding.
The absolute worse thing I see in almost EVERY fanfiction is describing people by a trait (the redhead, the student, etc) when it's irrelevant to the situation. For the love of God, just use their name!
I admit to doing this as well, mostly to break up repeating words or slip in some description (or in one case, where the MC didn't know the people's names and couldn't get a word in edgewise to ask), but I try to avoid doing it in excess because it gets annoying. XP To give an example: I'm currently reading a published (as in printed and sold) crossover between Doc Savage and the Shadow--Doc Savage is known as the Man of Bronze, and this book doesn't let you forget that *at all.*
That's called an epithet, I think. When you use something like "the blonde" or "the smaller boy," it makes the writing choppy, doesn't it? It bothers me too XDDD
But is actually repetitive to use their name all the time, it makes it really bad in the end. Imagine in every scene you put the name of the character nine times, or it has two women and you can't actually refer to them by pronouns without making it confusing. So it's a scape from becoming repetitive
@@edenorsomething7630 I see what you're getting at, but actually, readers are subconsciously trained to skim past the repetitive names, to the point where they hardly notice them at all. The flow of the writing stays smooth, even though there's repetition. With epithets, the reader is dragged out of the flow for a second to quickly figure out who the epithet is referring to. :)
@@waterfalldancer I particularly don't like to read the same name and it bothers me to no end when I see it repeat and repeat, but I think this is more to do with preference :p
Robin Lawnmower there’s nothing wrong with this. People get embarrassed and blush. It happens. It’s better than saying ‘She felt embarrassed’ which is painful telling.
Actually I quite like this one. But you know what i don't? I looked at some of my old drafts. And english is not my main language, so that might give me a pass, but I have written "my cheeks started to turn red as warmth crawled up on my face" 2 (!!!!!!!) times within 15 pages. I'm proud and disappointed at the same time LOL
Is it okay to use the phrase, "A warm sensation crept up from her neck up to her cheeks"? I'm a newbie to this stuff and only wrote drafts (some are unfinished). I get stuck with describing actions and minimizing the use of adverbs, especially since English is not my first language. I thought I would reach out online for tips so that I can improve. Kay thanks! 😁
I've noticed that fan fiction is often very dramatic and "slow". As in, totally over describing small things so it feels like we're watching in slow-motion. :P Also, sometimes instead of writing "She grabbed the handbag" it's more like "A hand reached out, fingers curled around the shoulder-strap of the baby blue satin handbag and lifted it with a swift motion." Or something like that. :P A bit too much for something as ultimately uninteresting as someone lifting a bag. XD And it feels like it's body parts doing things rather than the character themselves.
LMAOAOAOAO ITS LIKE THEY NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WORDS TO FINISH AN ESSAY BAHAHA All seriousness I 100% agree with this and sometimes some are too fast and some are too slow.
Let your fanfic be whatever it is! These things are fun in fandom. This video is just advice for if you want to make the jump to professional writing :)
On your first one, my teachers in middle school actually encouraged is against using said too often. They wanted us to use more diverse words xD I definitely agree with the overly dramatic bodily reactions though. I picked that up from fanfic and dropped it when I saw it in published professional fic and.....hated it.
Middle school teachers encourage this as an exercise because kids often need encouragement to say *anything* except 'said'. But good books only use other words when they're preferable to 'said' for some reason -- when they tell you something important that 'said' doesn't. Like "try to write a lot of words to say something", avoiding 'said' a children's writing exercise that is not supposed to be taken into professional work.
Just an FYI: You speak with your eyes way more than you realize. Your eye area is actually very animated. Many, MANY people speak with the eyes as that is the most obvious focal point when having a conversation, at least, if you are sober at the time. A look can kill is an adage for a reason =)
Never Too Old Gaming the point here was more that the POV character cant really observe these things on themselves, tho. especially in first perosn. but in general i agree with you. the thing is just that in writing these type of things can get very repetitive since we dont actually see an actor pull off all these subtle nuances with their expressions, instead we just read the same sentence over and over with slight variations lol
@@Vickynger You feel what you do with your facial muscles though. I get the repetition argument for sure, but "You don't see yourself doing it" is a horrible argument.
I think it was meant that you do indeed feel these things happening but when you're in the midst of a conversation, particularly a very intense conversation, you don't consciously pay attention to your eyebrows raising or your eyes widening. Why would you then consciously point it out, if the character themselves would be more interested in the situation than what their eye muscles are doing?
DarkPrject You also don’t notice it either. I’ll furrow my eyebrows a lot when I’m concentrated and when someone tells me I was doing that I don’t even realize it lol
In my experience transitioning from fan fiction to original fiction, the issue has proven to be much broader. I've never had to describe my characters -my readers already know what they look like. I've never had to establish any kind of setting unless it's an AU -the audience is already intimately familiar with the environment. I had a base storyline that had already proven to be successful, worth experiencing -otherwise there wouldn't be fans to read about it.
Ikr? You didn't have to think much about the backstory which only shows how much of a lazy ass i was as a writer. 😂 writing an original piece takes more time and my initial excitement to write it disappears over time. QuQ
@@stupidass192 Actually, that's the reason I wanted to start writing fan fictions 😂 I thought that it would be easier to practice writing by writing fanfics - not seriously though but just in order to jump into writing and feel confident. Now I no longer know.. 😅
THIS!!! ALL OF THIS!! I never realized how RELIANT I had become on the fact people already knew how the characters/setting was! I'm still trying to break out of that mindset, though the easiest way I've found, so far, as been to try and get someone who knows *nothing* about the fandom you're writing to read that fic. Write from the POV the readers know nothing about the story. It helps balance out the details you put into world building between too much and too little--as the experienced readers will get impatient/feel patronized by too much explaining. For me, as far as "using fanfiction to practice" goes, it's been most useful trying to hone different "writing styles." Want to write like Terry Pratchett? Experiment with fanfics. Want a Stephen King style? Fanfics. A good deal of it is just me being lazy, though. Also heartbroken over canon stuff. (Neji never died in Naruto. He never died.) Edit: tfw you're adhd and you a thousand words.
This, so much 😅 Even when writing fanfiction I've always enjoyed AU a lot so having to teach the reader about my setting and the changed character backgrounds within the fanfic is something I'm used to and can do for original fiction as well, but omg I struggle with visual descriptions of characters so much because fanfiction never required me to..xD I mean, generally people know how they themselves look, so why would they think about a self description? And I don't wanna do the cliché mirror thing 😭 But waiting until an appropriate time arrives within the story also sucks because 300 pages in, any reader WILL already have their own idea how a character looks and introducing a description THAT late into it is just gonna confuse people and interrupt their imagination...it's honestly my biggest struggle.
I always find it hard to describe my characters because I don't see characters in my head, I feel their prescence, but if I had to draw them, they would look different than if, say, you had to draw them. And I am hyperaware of _how_ I describe them.
Welcome, fanfic fam! Subscribe to the channel for more content from a former fic writer who has transitioned to professional writing. *She blushes as her eyebrows raise and she lets out a breath she didn't know she was holding.*
Maybe you were just a bad writer in general?
@@WritingSch slow blink. Did you really just comment with that?
My fanfics are dialogue-heavy is that okay?
Migod! That last sentence. Cringeworthy! I coudn't count how many times i've read/wrote that line. I'm embarassed now.
Have a question? I am writing a Harry Potter based fan fiction that is also part cannon pairing based and part fannon pairing based. I am wondering. If I wanted to actually get it published and see it, as long as I change certain names and certain locations; could I pass it off as my own as a professional writer? Also is it a good idea to continue writing fanfic even as a professional writer? I ask that second question because I quite enjoy writing fan fiction.
wait…so using “said” is acceptable now? finally i can throw away my thesaurus
Right? I've been told since elementary school to not use 'said'
School teachers tell their students that they need to use everything but 'said', but take something like that to a real editor or publishing house, and they'll laugh you out of the city.
Personally, I think the word "said" is like "the": innocuous and your average reader would've sort of automatically filter that word out as they read the story. As for why people are incredibly salty about "said", I don't know lol
Thesaurus is fine and all, but in certain situations, I had found that just "said" worked well enough. No need for "spoke", "voiced out", "yelled", "whispered", etc unless situation requires.
RIIIGHT I mean sometimes a colorful word is cool but we dont need to avoid "said" like the plauge, I hope elementary/middle school teachers have caught on by now
Yes and no. You're caught in the middle of the "Said Is Dead" argument, and the truth of the matter is, it doesn't have to be all one or the other. "Said" is natural, and nearly invisible... until it's all that you hear anymore. Then it's super auspicious. It's fine to use other words in your dialogue tags, but it's also cringe-worthy to keep using different descriptors for speech all the time. Use both, and have passages where you don't use any.
fanfic: "she let out a breath she didn't kn-"
me: *skips whole chapter*
Now I realized that it bothers me too. Cannot go unnoticed now, nice.
You don’t read actual books then lol
Lol I cringe every time I get a notif for this. Nothing more embarrassing than criticizing fanfic while admitting you haven’t read anything else.
Honey I just drop the whole fukkin book
@@WritingSch I've seen published books do it too, believe it or not. It's a hilarious cliché.
My character blush so much in draft 1 that they should honestly go see a doctor
OOH also I think a big thing I've noticed in my writing that comes from a background in (or a history of) fanfiction is too much exposition. Obvi exposition is a more general topic not specific to fanfiction, but I think what happened is I would want to spend so much time in my fanfiction that I would just write more and more details to slow the plot down so that I could extend the escapism. I think that had a major effect on my pacing, which I'm working on improving now.
😂
😭😂
You have no idea how much I relate to this comment😂😂
what's wrong with blushing though? I mean I know a guy at work that blushes if you look at him too long. I can see how characters might do it... I don't blush but I also have a warmer complexion so even if i did it probably wouldn't be that noticeable anyway.
*cough cough*
*WATTPAD*
HONESTLY
Cough cough, most of the people there are twelve XD. Then they learn to write over the years and become actually decent XD
But seriously, yes, agreed
@@propheticnexus2024 I know, I was one of them are a few years ago. Xd
I'm 17 and still use Wattpad
Another big one I find in Fanfiction (particulatly gay fanfiction) is not refering a charater so their pronoun or name. For example if someone was writing Darry fanfiction instead of saying "Draco moved closer" they might say "the slytherin moved closer" or "the blonde moved closer". This always bugs me and I have only seen it in the fanfiction comunity not really in published novels.
Ugh yes, this! "The brunette stared deeply into his jade orbs."
I ONLY pull that one when I’ve used theyre name too much. I barely do it. I HATE calling eyes orbs it doesn’t seem right... it’s weird... also another pet peeve. When people overuse the word “quirky” it is ANNOYING.
"The shorter male gently stroked his ash blonde hair"
pretty much every BakuDeku fic ever. I never really minded, except for when they always say "the shorter male". It gets annoying.
True!! Also “The young boy blushed at the older boy’s comment” stuff like that!!
Yes agree
The biggest tell for me is episodic writing. When each chapter feels like a short story that doesnt quite move along a greater plot, that is a huge sign the author is coming from fanfiction, because that's essentially how fanfic chapters are written and published, one at a time.
That's so true!
not necessarily?
@@KaizenKitty All of the things on this list dont "necessarily" mean someone came from fanfiction, they're just common tells if someone did and hasnt adjusted their writing.
fanfic chapters are not necessarily written and published that way
@@KaizenKitty I never said all are. It's just common.
I have never been dragged so harshly and so accurately.
Same. My first book was an original story. It was very dialogue-taggy and it had no plot it was basically “this homeless girl meets this guy his sister has a crush on homeless girl and magically homeless girl is no longer homeless and lifes magically going great for her” LOL
Idk this is one of the worst videos ever lol
My favorite piece of advice was the one about a character blushing.
I remember being on stage in eighth grade, receiving a pretty meaningless award for Chorus, and my body felt like it couldn’t cool down for a couple of seconds. According to my friends, however, my face was red and pink the entire time I was receiving the award and for the entirety of the last song.
You don’t always know that you’re blushing.
This has been my TEDtalk.
Thank you! That's a good note📝
Schools hammer into you not to overuse anything. “Said”, the characters names, even sentence structure (kinda agree with that one). I remember writing about Andrew Johnson (17th president) in fourth grade and you were allowed to use just the last name once, the full name once, and Mr.last name once per paragraph. This led to me using “The man” and “He” when I really needed it to be specific. Schools aren’t so good at creative writing
They're there to try to teach you skills. Creative writing is a thinly-veiled facade for grammar practice. I say this from an educational standpoint.
@@prplraven yeah but they're how people develop bad writing habits
@@khatunamezvrishvili6211 You have to learn to do it right before you can learn to do it 'wrong'. Schools can only give you the basics when they're trying to get everyone up to the same level. Teaching someone to be creative? Nigh on impossible.
also, turning Active sentences into Passive Sentences because we automatically do Active aparrently and so they need to teach us to write in Passives. Urgh
I hate that POV problem with describing your character's emotion through an action they can't actually see. In the first draft stage I'll throw in some trash like 'She felt her eyebrows raise' and then fix it in the second draft. Otherwise I sit there for half an hour! Love that you speak about fanfic from an honest but fond perspective - would love more fanfic-themed videos if you have them :)
To be fair, I totally raise one eyebrow intentionally and feel myself do it. But no I don't know I'm blushing unless I look in the mirror 😊😂
I just wrote a list of words that are ALWAYS in my cringeworthy passages so I can find them easier and delete. "Felt' is on the top of the list. So is 'seemed.' I still do it all the time, but at least I found a way to tear it out. (The list has about 20 things on it and is still growing.)
@@teshara a writing class I took on Coursera.org had a list like this, "padding" words I think they called it. It cuts your prose down pretty tight without a lot of effort. The class was through Wesleyan Uni (it's free, unless you want to get peer reviews of your work), worth a look if you're interested in improving your prose in general. Making your own list is a great idea!
@@claremiller9979 You can usually feel warmth in your face while blushing... sometimes not...
@@TheMarikatt I agree, I always feel it when I blush and also feel it when I raise my eyebrows, probably because I always do it intentionally.
I feel like first-person writing lends itself to the "fanfic feeling" a lot and I'm really not a fan of it. First-person is very limiting, and makes author-avatars so much more obvious and intrusive. It's like you're reading someone's diary.
I guess it works for YA but I prefer third person limited any day.
Same
Yep... i started my fanfic years ago and I regret every single day that I wrote it in first person, It just hurts me.
Several classics may disagree with you, though, like Jane Eyre and Moby Dick.
Not to mention 2nd person/reader pov. ‘You’ did this, ‘you’ said that, yada yada. It’s terrible.
Same - if I'm going to read first-person it's never fanfiction, and the POV character has to have a lot of personality to keep me engaged.
she’s literally just describing jojo’s bizarre adventure
Why XD
Everything is a jojo bizarre adventure you fool.
LOL 😂
Jojo is a visual medium, though.
jojo's reference o o h me likey
My biggest struggle is descriptions. I have to work so much on figuring out what is relevant to the story and what I can cut. I always have to add more things. XD
Total opposite for me. I discard almost everything as irrelevant, so that my first draft usually reads only slightly more detailed than a police report :P
@@DarkPrject We would make a great team. XD
Lol yeah I’m the same. I keep getting told by everyone who reads my writing that its very concise and that it needs more description. I feel like adding is easier than taking away though so its not too bad.
@@DxityDoo That's great then! :D
I guess no one is perfect on the first draft we just have to keep working and hopefully one day it will be a great book.
Me too, l mean, l have to tell myself not to describe where mc has spots in her skin.
Well, actually, whenever someone looks at me awkwardly, I smirk and wag my eyebrows around as a way of saying "I see you..." and "I will keep doing this until you look away.
People don't look at me unless I talk to them now.
I'm proud.
“eye-based reactions & POV hopping”
“anything where you’re describing your reaction with the main characters eyes- the *pov character’s* eyes”
me, a not-so-big-fan-of-first-person-pov fanfiction writer: **laughs in third-person**
Marmelade but if you’re in third person, you’d be able to, for example, describe your pov character blushing
Omniscient 3rd person - past tense ftw
👌
Usually the best fics are in third person.
First person is like writing a diary but you're not you (Except for the SI's)
Lilly blushes as rick gauges her orbs out. "Ow." Lilly laughs
"Most people don't use their eyebrows in excess."
Me, who's family and friends have always told her she is CONSTANTLY excessively using her eyebrows to express things: What?! They don't?
I've been called on my eyebrow movement at times. Maybe someone who uses huge arm-waving gestures all over the screen shouldn't be one to talk.
my eyebrows are apparently so expressive that some kid was imitating it when i was arguing with him in like 5th grade-
i literally only remember that bcz it's the first time anyone's pointed that out abt me
My eyes express way more tran they should
Same!
@@prplraven arm gesticulation is a lot more common of a physical communication tool than eyebrow waggling, raising, etc. when i am having conversations with people, they always use their hands or arms to help convey what theyre saying, but rarely are eyes/eyebrows a point of interest unless the person is silently communicating. i mean if you dont like what she is saying, you dont have to watch it.
As someone who has pretty active eyebrows in conversations (I raise one a lot when incredulous, confused (like I'm asking for clarification), etc.), eyebrow movements in books don't bother me. Plus, you can feel when you raise your eyebrows. I guess I don't understand how that one takes you out of the POV.
that's true: in moderation, eyebrows can be a good tell for several different emotions, especially in cases where it's a character you can't see into the mind of, and have to read his emotions with visual cues. but like everything, if you do it too much it kind of gets like, "oh, does this character just not have any functioning parts of their body aside from their eyebrows". use the eyebrows in tandem with visual cues with other parts of the body. and if you can, if you're writing in first person try to minimize cues that are externally seen, as opposed to internally felt.
edit: I kind of strayed from the topic and didn't directly answer the question, sorry ^^
Kaitlyn Barkley It’s also the writing. “His eyebrows jumped” sounds better than “he felt his eyebrows jump”, since “felt” is filler. Think “seem”. While the verbs are helpful, there’s a time and a place.
Well because when you're in conversations I doubt you're aware of every single movement your body does, are you?
My eyebrows are active too, but the thing is I don't notice that when I'm in conversations because my mind is focused on whatever topic I'm talking about and not my body movements. The only reason why I know my eyebrows move a lot is because my friends told me that I've very expressive eyebrows.
And the movement of eyebrows aren't the only indicator you know, if you ONLY describe the eyebrows then it's gonna be silly because we're always making gestures with our body, not just eyebrows. Eyes squinting/widening, pursing our lips, hand gestures, straight sitting position or slouching, etc. If you only describe the eyebrows, then the character is going to come across as boring and unrealistic.
I use my eyebrows a lot. Lot's of people remark on it. I am, however, never aware of doing it. Therefore, any character being aware of their own eyebrow movements throws me out of the POV and out of the story.
Helen Wood This is ridiculous. How can you not be aware of your own face?
As a reader things I hate in fanfic are the terms “eye bulging,” “ jaw dropped to the floor,” and first person POV. Also excessive description of clothing and makeup.
Proud to say I can't think of any 'fanon-Dracos' for my fandom of choice. Then again, I could just be reading the wrong fics.
Or the right ones
I know Star Wars has Anakin and Han. Though Luke and Obi-Wan are sometimes used. I think. I don't read slash so I am going by what I see in descriptions.
@@BlueDragonknight375 Dude, I read Star Wars fic too but I don't think we're using the same sites, lol. When I see it, it's usually Obi Wan or Poe, with the occasional Han, maybe Anakin, and whenever I see Luke written romantically, it's never him being all suave and sexy, he's usually a massive heckin dork
@@BlueDragonknight375 Kylo Ren.
What is your fandom of choice? We could enlighten you ;)
I can think of some characters for my favorite fandoms, but those characters DO tend to be overly sexual, smug, flirty and devilish in canon as well so...in all of those cases, the fandoms just kinda ran with it?
blushing, i would say, a pov character could observe in themselfs. their face grows warm
I absolutely know when I'm blushing, and shouldn't have to use a long winded way of describing it if it, "I felt my cheeks grow hot" is not automatically better than just saying I blushed; I'd rather not wax poetic about blushing because it's normally from embarrassment, not from a hot guy noticing me. People you are talking to can see you blushing and it changes how they talk to you sometimes, so it is relevant to the conversation in those cases.
Anna NA Lol me too and it’s always from embarrassment or maybe anger
@@annana6098 Same here. I blush easily, unfortunately. And most of the time I can feel myself blushing and that'll make everything so much more embarrassing/awkward for me.
That just seems like amateur writing in general. I'm old enough to remember when fanfic wasn't really a thing. There were people going to conventions and exchanging memographed sheets of Star Trek Kirk/Spock fic, but there wasn't an internet. But, these bad writings things showed up all the time in Harlequin, Signature & Zebra paperback romances--the kind where the imprint was more important than the author's name and they sold a lot of them through monthly subscriptions. I can't say for sure those authors weren't writing fanfic, but since it was a really underground thing, I doubt they were. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the authors were young and first starting out--since some of the more successful ones are still writing books 30-40 years later.
I've seen some articles from the academic side of fandom about how the early K/S writers were using the tropes common in romance novels, because those were the models they had for writing a romantic story.
@@werelemur1138 That makes sense. There's also the fact that certain tropes are just very functional for certain genres. Fanfic or profic, there's only so many ways for two characters to fall in love.
Of course there's no accounting for weird ideas that get to be popular for awhile then disappear--those tend to diverge between pro/fanfic. Like fanfic is doing coffee shop AUs and romance novels are suddenly heavy on biker stories.
This. Long before I ever heard of fanfic, I consumed mass quantities of romance novels and soap operas and pretty much all these tropes were present in droves. Soaps specifically do close ups of character's eyes for intense dramatic expression and melodramatic romantic and villain monologues were common. Dialogue tags as well, heroines sighed, heroes growled, etc...basically all of my bad writing habits came from there. If anything fanfic writing improved my writing because of the way they police it(not that it is a good thing) but you get influenced by people talking about the stuff they hate in writing....to this day I cringe at "the tall man, the younger woman, the bushy haired girl etc... as constant descriptors rather than character names or simple pronouns.... because it got called out so much in certain fanfic circles as bad writing.
These are awesome reminders. I worry I fall victim to the “said” avoidance but I catch myself saying replied/answered/remarked often. I also write only in third person so there’s a weird freedom with describing characters physical attributes they wouldn’t notice because I’m not limited to POV. But I have to remind myself that I write fanfiction for fun and escapism that I never publish anywhere so I can push to be a better writer but I shouldn’t berate myself for any of these pitfalls I may end up in!
I associate these habits with just young/novice writers generally---and, since youngsters tend to gravitate to fan fiction, it makes sense that these bad habits are now associated with fan fic in particular. I did several of these no-no's as a kid.
My first fanfic was actually meant to look more like a caricature, since the character had forgotten the basics in human communication and was re-learning them. If our first fanfics are meant to suck, then I think we should try to add a meaning behind it. I at least felt confortable in doing it.
I’m actually proud of myself that I only fall into the first one. I’m working on it and I’ve found that my writing has become more immersive. Another one I would like to add: STORY MOVES ALONG TOO QUICKLY!!!!! Like characters will meet and a week later they are eating each others faces off and I hate it
Lol same
I am very guilty of fast moving plots
Although it's not that I make them kiss after two days of knowing each other, and more that I timeskip a *lot* to get to the ""good bit""
Also, thank you. I've been writing mostly fanfic since the 90s and my family keeps telling me that I'll never publish until I stop "wasting my time" with it. It's all practice to me (and a joy) and I recently started on what I hope will be my first original novel, so it's good to hear a video like this that talks about what I'll need to drop without any bashing of what I consider a great genre.
I feel like the problem with younger writers and "said", as I saw someone else point out, is that teachers tell us not to use it. English teachers up until I started high school used to drill into my head that "said" was an awful word that should never be used if avoidable etc., etc. so I feel like that's where the problem stems from for me, and some others as well.
I do the eye thing SO MUCH. It's gotten to the point when I obviously know it's not working/not good writing, but I still find myself unconsciously doing it. I CANT STOP
I'm now feeling embarrassed about my over expressive eyebrows because I use my eyebrows a lot when conveying different reactions irl.
Right? I’m always aware of my own dramatic behavior lol
Thanks so much for the tips, as someone who writes fanfic and is constantly trying to improve and work on catching myself on troupes, there were a lot of good points and reminders. Even when I write fanfic, I don't want it to sound too much like fanfic if you get what I'm saying.
The thing I struggle with the most is to keep POV and not wandering around because I want to cover what's going on else where lol.
I guess it's just a slow process of improving. Best wishes my fellow writers!!!
I totally get what you're saying, I do the same thing. I want people to read my fanfictions and take them seriously, like they would an original story
I'm actually kind of happy I don't do any of these even though I'm still writing fanfictions as well as original stories and have a book published xD I thought I'd hit all these bad things but I actually don't do any of them. Kind of shocked, but proud of myself :)
Saving this so I can watch this religiously to get better authoring. I'm not even going to admit how called out I feel, but it's good!! I want to be better dude, I've wanted a career in writing professionally. Your the first person I've came across on YT that really explained everything so well, it's like... So much appreciated.
Thank you for the 4th and 5th one. I’m zero drafting, and now that I know these (I personally know that I do them still), I can catch them early. Plus I can practice/work on catching myself in general when I want to write these types of description.
The thing about using every word but "said" might be a bad teacher thing, because when I was in high school one of my English teachers decided to teach us to write properly and one of her bits of instruction was that we had to use any synonym for "said" except "said" and "asked". To some degree I think she was just trying to get us to expand our vocabularies, but it's also one of those high school lessons I ended up having to unlearn because it's actually bad advice. Fun fact, one of my history teachers had to teach us to write essays because she assigned us an essay, the entire class failed it and she realized none of us had learned how to write essays from English.
Oh my God, I BLUSHED while watching. You roasted me, Alexa. :)
And I roasted myself 😂
i literally never use said because school drilled it into me that i shouldn't and i'm still coming to terms with the fact that it is ok to use it
What's funny to me about these points about being too specific and using too many words to describe things in fics is that for my autistic ass, it’s literally the opposite, the published books oftentimes feel too fast and under-described to me, and I fell in love with fics mostly because for the first time while reading I could know the exact tone of voice of the characters speaking, their expressions and intentions and everyone’s reactions in real-time and it felt so wonderful and comforting that I often miss it in professional books
My first fanfic was basically my practise round for my writing. Over the course of the fanfic, I finally managed to develop my own style of writing and that inspired me to write my first actual book. Though my book is not yet completed, I can assure you that I hardly ever fall down these fanfic rabbit holes. For me, my fanfics were more for writing practice and experimenting with different characters, plots and genres. The reason most of my fanfics have these cliche lines in them is that I'm catering to an audience that loves this in a fanfic story. You would be lying if you said you didn't love those cheesy romance lines in a fanfic and so that's the reason I use them in my fanfics. You can't tell me you don't like these because my fanfic became quite popular. When writing my proper book, I cut many of these tropes out because I knew that I was no longer writing for fanfic readers.
One of my peeves... is describing eyes as "orbs" omg STAHP!!
I think the said thing also was instilled in me from my teacher. She even made us do a short story without said. My head still hurts from that.
There are certain reactions selves do observe, like flinching, sudden changes in face temperature, when a character snaps their eyes after staring off into space and realizes that their surroundings are unfocused.
Omg- I use to do all of this in my DRAMIONE fanfiction 🙈
Dramione was my first HP ship :P
I always hated Dramione, I'm sorry XD
The melodrama I object to is more adult characters venting their emotions and angst like teenagers or children. Like the whole, I mishear a conversation and now I'm going to YELL angrily and run away and sob desperately... grown men and women have feelings but they generally act more restrained than that. And I know, we're all affected when a usually stoic character's barriers are down, but OOC melodrama pushes it through to ridiculous.
I suppose I encounter this problem because I'm usually searching through hurt-comfort tags lol, so I do it to myself!
THE POV THING- OH MY GOD I JUST NOTICED MISTAKES IN MY FANFIC THANK YOU (so glad it hasn’t blew up at all)
It’s my first fanfic and I’m honestly not surprised ahah
You seem like a really pleasant (and kind) person.
It makes me happy to listen to you. : )
I hope you’re having a good week, and if you’re not, make sure to do something that makes you happy, you deserve it.
i really love over the top dialog tags
People also speak with their eyes WAY more than they think. If you’re writing a character talking to someone else, the POV character WILL notice these things. I notice myself raising my eyebrows all the time, too, so it’s not ‘unrealistic’ at all. It may seem repetitive in writing, but the actual action is 100% something people do all. You did it a lot in this video.
OMG I know I'm 2 years behind on this video but I have to comment on the fact that she is describing almost everything I tend to do in my writing lol! Especially focusing on facial expressions and the eyebrows. I try so hard not to have everyone furrow, arch, quirk, or raise their brows. For some ungodly reason I can't figure out why I feel the need to write about their eyes/eyebrows and mouth. It literally HAUNTS me!
honestly i think this is good advice for fanfic writers as well. Thank you for this.
One thing that has to stop is romanticizing depression and cutting among teenagers in fanfiction. I get that it's something that teens can relate to, but very often you don't see the charachter doing something about it or seek help. They are usually portayed as a victim, abused by their parents, stepfathers or bullied in school, but you don't see them standing up for themselves.
I've read a ton of FF, and am writing my own now. One of the things that makes me crazy is the use of bespeckled, silverette, etc. We all know the character has silver hair or wears glasses. Stop doing that. It's perfectly fine to you he, him, she, her, etc. Or, if only two characters are there, you don't need to indicate which one is talking or doing in every line. The characters should be different enough to bounce the dialog back and forth without identifying the speaker every time.
first: I love this video since I started writing FF again and these tips are great. Also this video showed me that my teacher really did well as several of these tips were things I already watched out for.
I love your videos, they are very informative and useful.
These tips are really good fir non fanfic writers/readers whom are just starting as well. Lots of younger writers tend to do these things to make their writing because of how schools teach "proper" writing.
Im currently writing a historical-fiction horror novel myself. ^_^
I'll definitely be looking over in case i have done any of these in my current chapters
Yasss, I'm saving this. I write both fanfic and originals, and since I've never published an original novel (just a short, once, in a now defunct journal), this is something I need to keep in mind. The not using "said" was something a lot of creative writing teachers used to drill when I was in school and college.
They're far and inbetween but my favorite fanfic finds are the kind that will take simple movie characters (often background characters who are only meant to be an exaggerated background-- the bad boy or the comedy releif friend, but sometimes these can be main characters as well) and give them a more fulfilling and relatable internal dialogue. I guess it can be more accurately described as characters studies? Idk I just always think fics like those are a mark of a good writer. (Which isn't to say other authors aren't, of course!)
i needed this wake up call. especially with the action tags and bond villains. i was so terrified of using the word 'said' back then, oh lord. i can't believe it took this long to realize my habits until i decided to find a video like 'why you're bad at fanfiction'.
English isn't my first language (I am German) and although I have often been told, that I'm on par with a native speaker, there are quite a few things I keep messing up. Adjectives vs. adverbs fall into that category (when to use which to set the right tone for the story/chapter/scene). I am also prone to mixing up tenses (present and past tense most notably). I continuously go through what I've written from top to bottom while writing to make sure I stay in the correct tense. I am prone to internal monologuing and losing character voices, too (i.e. when every character starts to sound exactly the same). My biggest writing vice, though, is an overuse of sarcasm. I'm still working on it, though I haven't uploaded anything in a long time (close to 10 years). I am guilty of some of the things you mentioned, as well, so I will examine my writing carefully for those bad habits, too. Thank you for pointing them out. I feel that your perspective as a professional is rather insightful for a hobby writer like myself.
However, I respectfully disagree on the subject of dialogue tags. There are so many ways the way we speak change the meaning of what is said. It works within any context I can imagine. Though I expect all things in moderation is key here.
Example: "I like tea", she said.
Can't forget the "snakes his arm around my waist"
Yeah😂
AHAHAHAHAHHA WHAT
るい like if you have this sentence in your fic im not reading it period
Omg ikr, its a little weird lol
😂😂 my cure from life
Is it even fan fiction if they didn't let out a breath they didn't realise they were holding?
The Fanfic Grand Council advised me against it, along with heterosexual romantic pairings.
HAHAHHHAHAA
It's in original fiction too. Everyone does it and it's kinda hilarious.
Ahahahaha i felt that
I have 100% seen that line in published fiction too...... they're one of us
"you can tell if someone used to write fanfiction"
thats oddly terrifying
MEE TOOO
@Fifty Shades of Grey
How can people see if you've written fanfiction before? Please answer because I wanna improve my writing skills to look good. I have written Warrior Cats fanfictions, does that count?
@@iclynnx it's mostly the tropes that they can be spotted and also because of the characters. There's also this thing often where the female protagonist think that every other female (except for her bff) is a superficial person with no brain...
@@Kawailys1 Hm. Well I don't think I've done that, most of my female characters are nice and deeper than they appear. I think I'm fine.
is it even fanfic if their tongues don't fight for dominance?
this post was made by the shipping community
Why yes, the languages do often fight for dominance in multicultural environments. -)
And I concur that the maritime shipping communities would be pretty knowledgeable about said phenomenon, it being closely related to international trade and such... -)))
Lol
yeet lmaoooo fr
I swear EVERY GOD DAMN TIME
Oh my god
And the "bad boy" type character in every fanfic is constantly smirking
"Bad Boy™": *Murders someone*
"Bad Boy™": *Smirks*
at this point it's probably stuck there so they're just constantly smirking.
icantebhshhsshhe
You have to understand Bad boys baaaaaaad past. He was born with a rare disease that makes his face look like he is constantly smirking. He gets frustrated and depressive after some time because when he grew up he had no chance of speaking to a girl. Girls always thought he was a pervert because he kept smirking. It became so bad that he saw no other way than using his desease for something good. He started playing poker. Because he was allways smirking nobody could tell what he felt like. The perfect poker face. There he met some bad and criminal people, his future friends. He finally felt accepted. He was happy. They taught him how to use his smirking face, so woman will find him sexy. He did and became not only addicted to poker but also to woman and drugs. Because his friends are addicted to drugs and they lost all their money while playing poker with Bad boy so they had to pay their depts with drugs. Things couldn't get worse...that is what he said. However his twin brother Good boy had a nice, sexey girlfriend. Her name was Mary sue. Of course Bad boy would get jealous. The reason for that is that Good boy had it all since they were born: a normal face, the love and hopes of their parents and now a nice girlfriend. He had an fantastic idea and cursed the 3 of them with a dark magic spell. You know he had drugs. What he didn't know...there was a magic drink under the drugs. There he got his magic. The 3 of them shall be reborn with different names each time. Every time Bad boy trys to steel Mary sue (now also known as Sky, Angel, Destiny etc.) and every time he fails. Because the good allways wins in fanfictions (except when it doesn't). Now it is your turn. Go to wattpad and read and write their story. Because their story hasn't ended yet.
Like how is his face not sore at this point
"I blush."
-Anastasia Steele, Fifty Shades of Grey.
Let me add to this
“I blush”
-Anastasia Steele, Fifty Shades of Grey, every single page
@@erinkelley1212 let me add even more
"I flush."
- Anastasia Steele, 50 shades of Grey, every other page.
Dang, with all this blushing she must be the color of the Communist Manifesto.
Really...?
I haven't read Fifty Shades of Grey, but one out-of-context sentence doesn't prove anything. The only part that annoys me about the quote you gave is that I can't stand books written in present tense. Then again, I put up with it all the time in cruddy online roleplays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd probably get ticked off reading a published book that ended sentences in random emoticons, too. ;^)
when they notice the ocean orbs from fifty feet away.
"Damn, you've got really good vision!"
@@prplraven Nah, his rifle had a scope. "Even my knife has a sniper scope!" -)
If I have to read "Golden orbs clashed with azure orbs" one more time. I.Will.Scream!
@@PrismCasillica "Golden orbs clashed with azure orbs in the war-torn skies of Aurelia, as the Librarian raised his staff adorned with a thousand holy scriptures, penetrating the hostile blackness of the night with the gilded beacon of his unshakeable faith in the God-Emperor. The smug grin contorting the visage of the Eldar Farseer slowly melted off her face - followed by the rest of her head as a thousand fists of fury rained down onto the smouldering terrain: a golden torrent of His sacred Judgement and divine Retribution. The reprehensible Xenos broke their ranks and took flight, yet were swiftly greeted by the bolters and chainswords of the 3d Company. On that day, every single Eldar was put to the sword." -)))
im scaaaaared u really know how to make me cry when u give me those ooocean orbs, those ocean orbs
I feel like in school teachers taught everyone not to use the word "said" so people just grow up avoiding the word when writing.
My teachers were fine with the word 'said'
I feel like teachers really screwed over future writers with exercises like that. But I took English class all the way through high school, and in my last year, the teacher basically told us to throw all of the stuff we'd learned previously out the window. I was like, "Well what was the fucking point?" But I was also grateful for it, because I finally felt like I had breathing room in the creative writing exercise.
I ignored all my teachers since they couldn't even use the correct English grammar, even English teachers which was frustrating. You know it's bad when you're quietly correcting your English teachers' English :/
@@tsundereyoongi3869 same here. I'm from a non-english speaking country and I've met multiple English teachers who have very broken grammar. They usually liked to give me shitty grades if I spoke up about their grammar too, so I just learned to shut up in English
@@krixkhaos the same thing happens with and. Middle school teachers tell you to not start a sentence with it. I think it's because in middle school, learning to use more things instead of said and, well, and, helps you a lot to develop your writing and to make it more grown-upish. When you can control your writing though, those things are kinda useless because you don't need them anymore.
Don’t blame fanfic for that! It’s the English teachers. They always say “never use “said”, it’s a flat and boring word”. And heaven forbid you use “get”.
Bob Newby Superhero thats so true though
They try and push you away from those words in school because they want you to think creatively. That doesn't mean never, just attempt to find other ways to express what you are trying to say so that your writing is dynamic.
It's because at the beginning it's always: said said said said said is everywhere!
The ultimate goal is to stop using said so much.
Or "thing". They HATE "thing".
Or walk
Overusing of pronouns. Just. Say. The. Name.
“The male walked over, looking at the tree. ‘What a lovely tree,’ said the green-eyed blonde. The young man proceeded to walk over to the other side of the yard. Once he had sat down, the human being proceeded to eat his sandwich. The sandwich was delicious, decided the carbon-based life form presently residing on planet Earth.”
There's overdoing it, certainly, but sometimes it's nice to break things up. Like every other point on this blog, it comes down to balance... Don't use one or the other exclusively; it's a blend.
EmberTheatre 😂😂😂
"Just. Say. The. Name."
Ok, I will.
Joshua walked over, looking at the tree. 'What a lovely tree,' said Joshua. Joshua proceeded to walk over to the other side of the yard. Once Joshua had sat down, Joshua proceeded to eat Joshua's sandwich. The sandwich was delicious, decided Joshua.
I just said the name. do you honestly think it's better?
@@sigurdgram Joshua walked over, looking at the tree. 'What a lovely tree,' he said. He proceeded to walk over to the other side of the yard. Once he had sat down, he proceeded to eat his sandwich. The sandwich was delicious, he decided.
sigurdgram yo I was just saying that all of these fanfiction writers that refuse to say the name is annoying, I didn’t say you can never use pronouns and stuff-
One other thing that about 80% of fanfic writers do is mix up present and past tense.
this is such a big pet peeve of mine, i used to do it all the time and i still catch myself switching tenses sometimes. this is why you need a beta reader lol
Would you believe me if I said that I do this all the time. And when I go back and fix them, I end up confusing myself even more. It's like, I'm so used to seeing these things that they've just integrated themselves into my grammar and syntax.
The thing about is that in day to day basis people mix present and past tense a LOT and I guess it's present in fanfics as a way to make it more seamless, more unpolished, in a way? In many cases it is a bad habit but it can make a fic easier to digest.
Dion7 I do this all the time 😂
i do this all the time it bothers me and im the one writing it sdjhjsfjhsd
"My face turned dark red."
wtf you lookin in a mirror
...from the blood of all the Heretics I was slaying"? -)))
The mirror is his ocean blue orbs.
some people feel more heated when blushing or angry, red = heat
i understand this, but when you blush you can feel your face heat up. so something better to write would be "my face began to heat up" or something like that haha
"my face turned red"
*Amity is typing....*
Can fanfic writers p l e a s e stop describing eyes as “orbs?” It’s so frickin weird
"blue balls of sight"
@@casperbinnett8265 A fitting description... for a methhead? -)))
Autumn Splash oh my god
I choked reading that
@@casperbinnett8265 circular muscles of vision
Nora Lineberger v o i d s
“I love you!!” He exclaimed, hot tears cascading down his cheeks like a waterfall, making his crystalline blue orbs with gold reflects sparkle in the moonlight. I gasped, my eyes widened and I felt myself blush bright red. “I-I love you too.” I cried, letting go of the breath I didn’t know I was holding”
this comment is my sleep paralysis demon
Afrah Shekh I’m so sorry 😂
- every fanfic ever
I just sighed so hard I think I broke a rib…
I think I've read that exact paragraph before
The official trope name for "fanon Draco" is "Draco in leather pants."
A Draco in leather pants is a villainous character that's portrayed way more positively in fanworks than in the original work, such as Monika from DDLC and Gavin Reed from Detroit: Become Human. Although they may overlap with the fanon Draco because those are usually attractive characters.
@@cyanodrake5892 which perfectly describes fanon Draco. what's your point?
@@robokill387 I'm going by TV Trope's definition of Draco in Leather Pants, it's a little broader than the Fanon Draco as it doesn't mention oversexualization as a main point. The Ice King from Adventure Time and Marx from Kirby's games are Dracos in Leather Pants according to TV Tropes, but I wouldn't call them Fanon Dracos.
Cyano Drake *screams in Loki fanfiction*
get out
My grade 3 teacher told me once, "you can't just use said," which lead to messy dialogue tags that weren't fully realized until I watched this video. Thank you. I will improve Oh Great One.
Same! I never wrote fanfic but my elementary school teachers always said it was repetitive/novice of me to use "said" more than once or twice per report. Jump 10 years ahead and now all my characters "proclaim," "recite" and "dictate"!
Sahra Penumbra My primary teacher was saying -oh no,he was -*-explaining-* the same. Oh my god, primary school screws writers! :D
That's because students are taught how to pass tests and seem impressive, not taught the actual subject
That's crazy how much school has changed. Because when we were in school teachers said to use said because its invisible and only use tags when important moments happen. Lol weird 😊
Precisely! I got this from school as well, not fanfic. And oh boy, do my characters "affirm" , "declare" and "remark" x´D
the overuse of dialogue tags makes me so angry now because it took me so long to break it. i dont know if its just in my area, but in elementary/middle school, using "said" was frowned upon, and when being taught english, theyd bring out all these lists of words to use instead. thanks for that, school system:/
I have the same hangups coming out of the german school system, so I think it's fair to say it's not just your area.
Canadian here. I think *everybody* got slapped with that bad advice when we were kids, no matter where we were, and now we're a heap of walking bad habits that need breaking before we can actually write well again. THANKS, EDUCATION!
I think the reason for that is that a bunch of English teachers are secretly fanfic writers.
@@myapeterson5469 DO NOT look at me! (I only teach Art! XD)
I was told constantly not to use the word said. It’s hard, but if I look up the definition to the alternative, and it’s what I want, I’ll use it.
J.K. Rowling's use of dialogue tags. Let me give you an example. "'Snape!' Ejaculated Slughorn."
That is just not okay.
Ejaculated? That whole, "You keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means," bit from The Princess Bride comes to mind.
(Yes, I know it can mean to, "suddenly say something," but that usage is dated and modern readers think of it in...um, another sense.)
Yes you're right. And I'm SO happy you mentioned the Princess Bride because that's what I was thinking too
@@devon6236 What can I say? It's one of my favourite comedy movies. xP
ik like they can be very weird sometimes, this isn't a dialogue tag but in the chamber of secrets it said a ' there was a very pregnant pause.' like wtf does that mean
@@sorcerersapprentice yea i kinda got what it meant but i was very very confused at first
7:20 "His eyebrows widen in surprise." -Fifty Shades of Grey
Insane Rabbit I just got the funniest image in my head.
what no hahahahahaha
@Rachel T maybe??? we'll never know. it's one of the greatest mysteries in fiction
@@lillianb1516 is this fucking real how is this real?
Insane Rabbit this book got fucking published with a phrase “his eyebrows widened” sksksks
In every fanfiction Y/N enters the room and character is half naked then character smirks and says "like what you see?"
HOLY SHIT YOU RIGHT
IKR EVERYYY SINGLE ONE
OH MY FRICKING GOSH WHEN WILL THEY STOP
👁👄👁 i havent done this but ive done something in a way like it. Like the character was grabbing clothes out of his closet with a towel wrapped around him and like she was staring and he turned around and got really close to her before laughing and going to get dressed
@@skezzzlethesimp9445 meh that's funnier in ny opinion
General comment to people struggling with any of these:
Go buy the book: The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writers Guide to Character Expression.
It gives you so many ideas of how to show emotion without reusing the same ones over and over. It also includes internal reactions for when you’re describing your POV character. It’s helped me filter out so many of these mistakes in my writing.
JJ367 thank you so much for this 😊💙
Yes! Love that book. It helps make the scenes so much more impactful
Thank you so much😃❤
Thanks for the tip
So nice of you to suggest it :) Thanks
You missed a really big one: *script-style writing*
Oh god kill me now
I saw my friend write with that and God needs to ban her from using pens and paper for doing that
I did it once, and I will never do it again.
The laziest kind of writing.
At least I think I do 😂
I use 'said', but I like to use words like 'reasoned', 'confessed', 'admitted' if the dialogue calls for it.
Depends on what they're actually saying lmao
Or how they deliver it.
I do use said, but I try to rely on other things as well.
i use saya cos its in present tense for.me. i use whispered and murmured.too lmaoo
Same. I don't really go down the "said (insert adverb)" route unless the situation specifically calls for it. Simpler to just say "he shouted, he cajoled, he simpered" etc, because it gets to the point faster? I prefer snappy and instantly understandable in writing.
Exclaimed
1:38: Overused dialogue tags.
2:51: The Over The Top Rakish Love Interest (Fanon Draco)
4:51: Melodrama (And Villain Monologuing)
7:19: Eye-based Reactions and POV Hopping
thank you so much. I really wish she would've just timestamped these in the description.
in WH40K:
1) guilty as charged. There's seemingly a competition on who invents the most repulsive phrasing to describe the simple act of speaking. Words are, therefore, vomited, excreted and bled out of the speaker's mouth - which, considering the fandom, may sometimes be a literal horrifying reality. -))
2) In the Grim Darkness of the far Future, there is ONLY war. -) As one man put it, "love-hope-prosperity have been replaced by war, death and destruction: not necessarily in that order, but always in mass quantities".
3) Both sides monologue to their heart's content! ) The Heretics never fail to stress how the God-Emperor is nothing but a rotten corpse sitting on the golden (toilet) ahem, throne; while the Loyalists go on and on about how their Faith in said Emperor is a firmly erect golden Pinnacle of Righteous Might, and is thus harder than adamantium.
4) Is it "eye-based" if the psyker's eyes literally pop out upon seeing the Greater Daemon's raging murderboner? -))
5) In the Grim Darkness of the far Future, humal lifespan is so short that no character's POV can ever last beyond 10-15 minutes, thereby making the aforementioned hopping a functional necessity. -)))
I don’t think eye-based reactions are really that bad. If I talk to someone, I read their emotions through their eyes and mouth. Take those away and how is your MC going to react to people?
I also raise my eye brows on purpose if I’m skeptical or surprised. I don’t see what the big deal is it shows up once or twice in fiction. I do it and I know other people do it.
Guilty of POV hopping
@@WritingSch When I use eye-based reactions, they're always intentional motions like a character intentionally raising his eyebrows for comedic purposes (Intentional "Keven silently arced his eyebrows in stunned disbelief his friend would say something so dumb" versus subconscious "Kevin's eyebrows raised in surprise"), or EXTREME reactions like a delayed reaction when someone realizes someone's casually admitted to literal murder to them. Things that actually WOULD make your eyes widen melodramatically. RARELY, they're EXTREMELY expressive characters (someone mentioned how Emilia Clarke actually DOES use her eyebrows like a fanfiction character), but when I do that, I'm careful to make it very explicit that they're usually expressive. But RARE is the operative word there. Doing it a few times in a single work might work. Doing it a few times in a paragraph does not.
But the example in the pinned comment ("She blushes as her eyebrows raise and she lets out a breath she didn't know she was holding.") is just way too much no matter what. Especially when she notices she let out a breath she didn't notice she was holding.
The absolute worse thing I see in almost EVERY fanfiction is describing people by a trait (the redhead, the student, etc) when it's irrelevant to the situation. For the love of God, just use their name!
I admit to doing this as well, mostly to break up repeating words or slip in some description (or in one case, where the MC didn't know the people's names and couldn't get a word in edgewise to ask), but I try to avoid doing it in excess because it gets annoying. XP To give an example: I'm currently reading a published (as in printed and sold) crossover between Doc Savage and the Shadow--Doc Savage is known as the Man of Bronze, and this book doesn't let you forget that *at all.*
That's called an epithet, I think. When you use something like "the blonde" or "the smaller boy," it makes the writing choppy, doesn't it? It bothers me too XDDD
But is actually repetitive to use their name all the time, it makes it really bad in the end. Imagine in every scene you put the name of the character nine times, or it has two women and you can't actually refer to them by pronouns without making it confusing. So it's a scape from becoming repetitive
@@edenorsomething7630 I see what you're getting at, but actually, readers are subconsciously trained to skim past the repetitive names, to the point where they hardly notice them at all. The flow of the writing stays smooth, even though there's repetition. With epithets, the reader is dragged out of the flow for a second to quickly figure out who the epithet is referring to. :)
@@waterfalldancer I particularly don't like to read the same name and it bothers me to no end when I see it repeat and repeat, but I think this is more to do with preference :p
"Your antagonists is basically Voldemort"
Me: ...but, my antagonist IS Voldemort.... now what?
"Yes, you are f*cked,
Sh*t out of luck!" -)))
c Tenacious D - Pick of Destiny
Mine is basically voldemort with a nose and some hair 😂. She literally has some of voldemort’s dialogues 😂
So basically... being extra.
Yep. 😂
Yes.
Anna Lenaghan exactly! just acting like a human being will do 😂😂
Basically
Whispers "oh no" as I look at the male lead in my fantasy novel, realizing he's Fanon Draco.
Frantically looks back on all of my past writing, realizing I've done one if not multiple of these tropes in every single one
Lean into it, and have everyone react like "dude c'mon, we get it, you think you're dashing. Key words: YOU THINK."
Just need to bend it a bit so it tarnishes the image a little probably doesn't take much to fix
Panics as I look back at my first ever fanfics, knowing that every male that i've ever written was literally fanon draco.
I think the ridiculously over-the-top sexy character can work, just make him a funny himbo.
The most important one: *Literally zero paragraph breaks*
It pains me to just think about it.
god i hate those so much
pls that hurts
I see plenty of renown authors do this.
It requires you to be really skilled.
RIGHT it makes it so hard to understand what's happening and to focus
My my those almost made me blind 😭
“People in real life don’t actually waggle there eyebrows a lot...”
Me: wondering whether I’m the only one who does it on a regular basis.
Same, me and my friends do it a lot actually... Like with a dead serious face and then we start laughing
She was doing it in the video too lol
I used my eyebrows A LOT. But that’s because I can actually move them in a way that the majority of people can’t, lol.
Welcome to the cult!
me too 😂 I do it all the time in the hope people realise what I say is just dark humour and not serious 😂
“There is a lot of smiling devilishly and winking slyly.” 😂😂 I laughed so hard and I love how you made the expression to match 🤣
You notice how no fanfic protagonist is ever named things like “Cuthbert” or “Gretchen”? There need to be more fanfics about Cuthberts and Gretchens.
Throw an odd Verter to the mix as well, I'd say. -)
I have a character named Gwyndd.
Does that count?
A Sparrowhawk Named Janice how is that pronounced? gwend? gwind?
Gretchen is a cute name! I'll definitely write a character for that name!!
anxious starstuff
gwe-nidd
Or at least I think it’s pronounced like that
It’s an old Welsh name.
"She tried to ignore the growing heat in her neck and face."
I remember using this line a few times in my writing.
Robin Lawnmower there’s nothing wrong with this. People get embarrassed and blush. It happens. It’s better than saying ‘She felt embarrassed’ which is painful telling.
@@WritingSch I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it. It was merely an example
Robin Lawnmower Oh ok. I’ve just seen many people saying blushing in general was bad, which is a misunderstanding of the advice in the video lol
Actually I quite like this one. But you know what i don't? I looked at some of my old drafts. And english is not my main language, so that might give me a pass, but I have written "my cheeks started to turn red as warmth crawled up on my face" 2 (!!!!!!!) times within 15 pages. I'm proud and disappointed at the same time LOL
Is it okay to use the phrase, "A warm sensation crept up from her neck up to her cheeks"? I'm a newbie to this stuff and only wrote drafts (some are unfinished). I get stuck with describing actions and minimizing the use of adverbs, especially since English is not my first language. I thought I would reach out online for tips so that I can improve. Kay thanks! 😁
“Doesn’t act like a human being.”
Damn it, anime...
RIGHTTT
i feel like us anime fanfic writers got a “exception” because they really do use so much facial expression 🤧
@@fairymaia6818 honestly though!!
Nooo you made me wheeeeeeze
Anime is an exception
“They kissed passionately”
"And then they f*cked. It was great". -)))
"They kissed passionately" Because why wouldn't they otherwise
More details please
SHUUUUT UUUUP
Lmao his tongue asking for entry
I've noticed that fan fiction is often very dramatic and "slow". As in, totally over describing small things so it feels like we're watching in slow-motion. :P Also, sometimes instead of writing "She grabbed the handbag" it's more like "A hand reached out, fingers curled around the shoulder-strap of the baby blue satin handbag and lifted it with a swift motion." Or something like that. :P A bit too much for something as ultimately uninteresting as someone lifting a bag. XD And it feels like it's body parts doing things rather than the character themselves.
lmao its like writing an essay
Dang, I got so mad at myself for not doing that. Thank god I don’t, now I realize
@@rayblake6094 Haha, that's good. :)
LMAOAOAOAO ITS LIKE THEY NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WORDS TO FINISH AN ESSAY BAHAHA
All seriousness I 100% agree with this and sometimes some are too fast and some are too slow.
It's like describing a scenery in "The Hobbit" lmao
I have just finished writing my fan fiction and saw this in my recommendation... I watched this video and I regret everything that I have written
Let your fanfic be whatever it is! These things are fun in fandom. This video is just advice for if you want to make the jump to professional writing :)
Don't feel bad Bro 😔✊
Also: you can edit something you don't like, but you can't edit something you don't write
Much fanfiction is better and more original than published fiction.
Fanfic tends to explore a lot more than published fiction, so it is better in a lot of ways and there’s no need to feel bad about it
On your first one, my teachers in middle school actually encouraged is against using said too often. They wanted us to use more diverse words xD I definitely agree with the overly dramatic bodily reactions though. I picked that up from fanfic and dropped it when I saw it in published professional fic and.....hated it.
This is often because, at that age, teachers want their students to expand their "vocabulistics".
Middle school teachers encourage this as an exercise because kids often need encouragement to say *anything* except 'said'. But good books only use other words when they're preferable to 'said' for some reason -- when they tell you something important that 'said' doesn't. Like "try to write a lot of words to say something", avoiding 'said' a children's writing exercise that is not supposed to be taken into professional work.
I still like “bitched” as a dialogue tag and I don’t feel bad about it.
Just an FYI: You speak with your eyes way more than you realize. Your eye area is actually very animated. Many, MANY people speak with the eyes as that is the most obvious focal point when having a conversation, at least, if you are sober at the time.
A look can kill is an adage for a reason =)
Never Too Old Gaming the point here was more that the POV character cant really observe these things on themselves, tho. especially in first perosn.
but in general i agree with you. the thing is just that in writing these type of things can get very repetitive since we dont actually see an actor pull off all these subtle nuances with their expressions, instead we just read the same sentence over and over with slight variations lol
@@Vickynger You feel what you do with your facial muscles though. I get the repetition argument for sure, but "You don't see yourself doing it" is a horrible argument.
@@DarkPrject mm. I widen my eyes as a reaction a lot and I know that because I can feel it in my eyes and eye muscles...
I think it was meant that you do indeed feel these things happening but when you're in the midst of a conversation, particularly a very intense conversation, you don't consciously pay attention to your eyebrows raising or your eyes widening. Why would you then consciously point it out, if the character themselves would be more interested in the situation than what their eye muscles are doing?
DarkPrject You also don’t notice it either. I’ll furrow my eyebrows a lot when I’m concentrated and when someone tells me I was doing that I don’t even realize it lol
Her : fanon Draco
Me *whispers* : Christian Grey
fanfic draco doesn’t deserve this lol
HP > HPFF > Twilight > Twilight FF > 50SoG
The spiral of darkness
@@OrDuneStudios What comes next?
T. Thomas Throne of Glass
Dean winchester from supernatural is always made more horny than he is in the show like he wouldnt say that AND HIS HAIR IS BROWN NOT DIRTY BLONDE
My characters literally chuckles every two seconds
PLS SAME💀
Have i turned into your character cos this had me chuckling
Gosh is this me
@@cheskakellymaeborja6826 LMAOO
In my experience transitioning from fan fiction to original fiction, the issue has proven to be much broader.
I've never had to describe my characters -my readers already know what they look like.
I've never had to establish any kind of setting unless it's an AU -the audience is already intimately familiar with the environment.
I had a base storyline that had already proven to be successful, worth experiencing -otherwise there wouldn't be fans to read about it.
Ikr? You didn't have to think much about the backstory which only shows how much of a lazy ass i was as a writer. 😂 writing an original piece takes more time and my initial excitement to write it disappears over time. QuQ
@@stupidass192 Actually, that's the reason I wanted to start writing fan fictions 😂 I thought that it would be easier to practice writing by writing fanfics - not seriously though but just in order to jump into writing and feel confident. Now I no longer know.. 😅
THIS!!! ALL OF THIS!! I never realized how RELIANT I had become on the fact people already knew how the characters/setting was! I'm still trying to break out of that mindset, though the easiest way I've found, so far, as been to try and get someone who knows *nothing* about the fandom you're writing to read that fic. Write from the POV the readers know nothing about the story. It helps balance out the details you put into world building between too much and too little--as the experienced readers will get impatient/feel patronized by too much explaining.
For me, as far as "using fanfiction to practice" goes, it's been most useful trying to hone different "writing styles." Want to write like Terry Pratchett? Experiment with fanfics. Want a Stephen King style? Fanfics. A good deal of it is just me being lazy, though. Also heartbroken over canon stuff.
(Neji never died in Naruto. He never died.)
Edit: tfw you're adhd and you a thousand words.
This, so much 😅
Even when writing fanfiction I've always enjoyed AU a lot so having to teach the reader about my setting and the changed character backgrounds within the fanfic is something I'm used to and can do for original fiction as well, but omg I struggle with visual descriptions of characters so much because fanfiction never required me to..xD
I mean, generally people know how they themselves look, so why would they think about a self description? And I don't wanna do the cliché mirror thing 😭 But waiting until an appropriate time arrives within the story also sucks because 300 pages in, any reader WILL already have their own idea how a character looks and introducing a description THAT late into it is just gonna confuse people and interrupt their imagination...it's honestly my biggest struggle.
I always find it hard to describe my characters because I don't see characters in my head, I feel their prescence, but if I had to draw them, they would look different than if, say, you had to draw them. And I am hyperaware of _how_ I describe them.