The agent, Oliver, is the guy who said Angel was an actor in the first episode. He's not creeping on Rebecca. "I'm in a serious relationship with a landscape architect." - Oliver to Angel in City of.... There is a great outtake of Angel stunt double running into Rebecca's window, it bowing in, and tossing him back.
If you remember, Mr Trick is a vampire and recorded himself on camera for the Slayerfest '98 thing. So, they've previously shown vampires on camera before. 🤷🏻♂️
Eternity was an interesting episode exploring the power of celebrity and how people can be taken in and manipulated by it. Angel having his drink spiked being drugged and almost getting that moment of pure happiness makes us anxious watching this. Funny when Cordelia calls her a slut, accusing her of having sex with Angel. Wesley knows it's not real and just an illusory feeling and saves the day here. Again the episode shows the dangers is spiking or drugging people as you never know what the consequences can be. Funniest part when Angelus tells Cordelia having to sit through her acting was even worse than being to Hell itself! This now sets up nicely E18 an E19 very much a two parter as good as anything from either show. Enjoy!
I see so many people not understand how Angel becoming Angelus works in this episode. Many think the mythology gets screwed up and/or doesn't make sense, or as with The Review Crew, don't want to think about it, but the answer is actually simple, just hard to explain sometimes. Angel never loses his soul. The Doximal drugs make him think so, as they simulate bliss really well. In essence, Angel is feeling the effects of the Doximal, nothing more. It's why the Angelus of this episode doesn't quite act like the Angelus we know from previous episodes. It's no different than if a human were given or had taken it, except humans don't have negative pre-dispositions to happiness. That's why, when it wears off, his soul isn't gone. It was always there. The drugs were just that good. Wesley explained the basics of this after Rebbecca got off the evelator and told them what drug she used. Nothing in the vampire mythology of the series says Doximal wouldn't affect a vampire. In fact, Angeus spitting out steroid-dosed blood in BtVS S2 shows the exact opposite. This episode proves that there is more than one way for Angel to risk Angelus on the population. To me, it's another reason Angel shouldn't ever get complacent about the curse. At the end of the day, Angel "not feeling guilt," as Enyos explains in _Innocence_ by saying, "One moment where the soul that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is taken from him" is how the curse works. Angel, in this episode, is still feeling guilty, as we can see from the immediacy after him squirting blood in Rebecca's mouth, so in this case, Wesley saying simulated bliss means Angel still has his soul, but Doximal is so good it is simulating ("an illusion") Angelus. And that is why, as stated above, it can wear off. It always made sense to me and I never believed the curse or shows mythology was messed with. Assuming things like this couldn't happen is no different than the Scoobies assuming Angel is good when Angelus is cursed with Angel. Angel isn't the one who is cursed. Angelus is. Not remembering that was the danger back in BtVS S2. It's probably good this happened. If Rebecca just asked and Angel said no, she would have looked for another vampire thinking they're all like Angel and ran into one who just wants to feed and/or kill.
The whole "happy pill releases Angelus temporarily" has never quite worked for me, but it's such a great episode that I'm just like "eh, might as well".
Because it merely lowered his inhibitions as drugs and alcohol often does, there for his conscience wasn't really present. Without the conscience, there's just Angelus. Angel is literally basically Angelus with Liam's conscience holding him back. So, we ended up with a happy "Angelus", and what makes Angelus happy? Being a murderous, psychological menace to others...
I'm a bit confused about your watch order. Referencing the screenshot you shared in the community tab, isn't Buffy 4x17 supposed to come before Angel 1x17?
@nonsequitur001 I don't know who chose the play. I wasn't in the writer's room and am not sure if Joss was. He came downstairs occasionally but was usually too busy to sit in the room for the hours needed to break the story for an episode. There was also the complication that this was the first of two episodes written by Tracey Stern before any episodes aired. She left after writing her second episode, The Bachelor Party, but before that aired. As such, this was written with Doyle instead of Wesley and required a bunch of rewrites to switch to Wes. The play then needed to be cleared for use. Because of the clearances needed, the play was likely chosen in the initial draft, making it more likely to have been Tracey's idea. But honestly, it would gave been anyone in the room or even a note later from Joss. This was a lot of words to simply say, "Who knows?" LOL
I think the episode is based in part on an old Hollywood movie named "Laura". But I'm not going to say which part, cause that's a spoiler for the movie.
It doesn't. The demon is always there, but his soul is usually string enough to subdue it. On the drugs, the soul is weakened and comes forward. When the drugs wear off, the soul takes back over.
It's implied in some other episodes that even _with_ a soul, Angel still gets impulses to murder his friends that he's simply choosing not to act on because it would be morally wrong. In the episode Angel, for instance, he mentions that he wanted to kill Buffy, who was only fighting him due to a massive misunderstanding and not knowing his backstory yet. There's absolutely no reason for him to _want_ to kill her unless that's his demonic vampire urges being the devil on his shoulder, and he definitely has his soul at that point. With that in mind, there is an explanation: the curse hasn't been lifted. He's just on drugs and the intrusive thoughts are running wild.
The agent, Oliver, is the guy who said Angel was an actor in the first episode. He's not creeping on Rebecca. "I'm in a serious relationship with a landscape architect." - Oliver to Angel in City of....
There is a great outtake of Angel stunt double running into Rebecca's window, it bowing in, and tossing him back.
If you remember, Mr Trick is a vampire and recorded himself on camera for the Slayerfest '98 thing. So, they've previously shown vampires on camera before. 🤷🏻♂️
A fair warning that as you guys become Internet Stars.....remember all the little people along the way.
❤️🫡
Eternity was an interesting episode exploring the power of celebrity and how people can be taken in and manipulated by it. Angel having his drink spiked being drugged and almost getting that moment of pure happiness makes us anxious watching this. Funny when Cordelia calls her a slut, accusing her of having sex with Angel. Wesley knows it's not real and just an illusory feeling and saves the day here. Again the episode shows the dangers is spiking or drugging people as you never know what the consequences can be. Funniest part when Angelus tells Cordelia having to sit through her acting was even worse than being to Hell itself! This now sets up nicely E18 an E19 very much a two parter as good as anything from either show. Enjoy!
I see so many people not understand how Angel becoming Angelus works in this episode. Many think the mythology gets screwed up and/or doesn't make sense, or as with The Review Crew, don't want to think about it, but the answer is actually simple, just hard to explain sometimes. Angel never loses his soul. The Doximal drugs make him think so, as they simulate bliss really well. In essence, Angel is feeling the effects of the Doximal, nothing more. It's why the Angelus of this episode doesn't quite act like the Angelus we know from previous episodes. It's no different than if a human were given or had taken it, except humans don't have negative pre-dispositions to happiness. That's why, when it wears off, his soul isn't gone. It was always there. The drugs were just that good. Wesley explained the basics of this after Rebbecca got off the evelator and told them what drug she used.
Nothing in the vampire mythology of the series says Doximal wouldn't affect a vampire. In fact, Angeus spitting out steroid-dosed blood in BtVS S2 shows the exact opposite. This episode proves that there is more than one way for Angel to risk Angelus on the population. To me, it's another reason Angel shouldn't ever get complacent about the curse. At the end of the day, Angel "not feeling guilt," as Enyos explains in _Innocence_ by saying, "One moment where the soul that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is taken from him" is how the curse works.
Angel, in this episode, is still feeling guilty, as we can see from the immediacy after him squirting blood in Rebecca's mouth, so in this case, Wesley saying simulated bliss means Angel still has his soul, but Doximal is so good it is simulating ("an illusion") Angelus. And that is why, as stated above, it can wear off. It always made sense to me and I never believed the curse or shows mythology was messed with.
Assuming things like this couldn't happen is no different than the Scoobies assuming Angel is good when Angelus is cursed with Angel. Angel isn't the one who is cursed. Angelus is. Not remembering that was the danger back in BtVS S2.
It's probably good this happened. If Rebecca just asked and Angel said no, she would have looked for another vampire thinking they're all like Angel and ran into one who just wants to feed and/or kill.
Well said.
I'm glad you've started to really like Angel the series, you will love season 2!
The whole "happy pill releases Angelus temporarily" has never quite worked for me, but it's such a great episode that I'm just like "eh, might as well".
Because it merely lowered his inhibitions as drugs and alcohol often does, there for his conscience wasn't really present. Without the conscience, there's just Angelus. Angel is literally basically Angelus with Liam's conscience holding him back. So, we ended up with a happy "Angelus", and what makes Angelus happy? Being a murderous, psychological menace to others...
So glad you guys are enjoying 'Angel' for what it is ^_^ I really enjoy the last few episodes of S1, and S2 is even better
Really like this episode. Thanks guys, nice reaction. Love Mikey's shipping, should be fun to watch.
I'm a bit confused about your watch order. Referencing the screenshot you shared in the community tab, isn't Buffy 4x17 supposed to come before Angel 1x17?
I may have just released it reverse by accident today. You're completely correct, my fault didn't even notice
Mikey
@732ReviewCrew No problem, I was just wondering if you had changed your watch order.
Season 1 i fun but it really hits its stride in season 2
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
The play Cordie is in is "A Doll's House." I wonder if that is a little reference to the Eliza Dushku series "Dollhouse."
I don't think Joss had that idea yet.
Oops you're right, Dollhouse came out later. It's still a striking coincidence. Maybe he liked something about it or the title at least.
@nonsequitur001 I don't know who chose the play. I wasn't in the writer's room and am not sure if Joss was. He came downstairs occasionally but was usually too busy to sit in the room for the hours needed to break the story for an episode. There was also the complication that this was the first of two episodes written by Tracey Stern before any episodes aired. She left after writing her second episode, The Bachelor Party, but before that aired. As such, this was written with Doyle instead of Wesley and required a bunch of rewrites to switch to Wes. The play then needed to be cleared for use. Because of the clearances needed, the play was likely chosen in the initial draft, making it more likely to have been Tracey's idea. But honestly, it would gave been anyone in the room or even a note later from Joss. This was a lot of words to simply say, "Who knows?" LOL
There's plenty more gross Joss Whedon moments ahead in the Buffyverse that top this episode
I think the episode is based in part on an old Hollywood movie named "Laura". But I'm not going to say which part, cause that's a spoiler for the movie.
Hey guys, I was just wondering why you aren’t reacting to buffy episodes? The last upload was 12 days ago
Yea, this one kinda breaks lore with the curse.
Just pretend that it works and ignore the inconsistency. It'll be fine.
It doesn't. The demon is always there, but his soul is usually string enough to subdue it. On the drugs, the soul is weakened and comes forward. When the drugs wear off, the soul takes back over.
It's implied in some other episodes that even _with_ a soul, Angel still gets impulses to murder his friends that he's simply choosing not to act on because it would be morally wrong. In the episode Angel, for instance, he mentions that he wanted to kill Buffy, who was only fighting him due to a massive misunderstanding and not knowing his backstory yet. There's absolutely no reason for him to _want_ to kill her unless that's his demonic vampire urges being the devil on his shoulder, and he definitely has his soul at that point.
With that in mind, there is an explanation: the curse hasn't been lifted. He's just on drugs and the intrusive thoughts are running wild.
@Talisguy I think we agree on the explanation.
Yes for people who don’t want to use any brains, it breaks lore