Britain’s Missed Mirage? - The Fairey Delta 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- When talking about "What-If?" aircraft, one that is often overlooked may in fact be one of the biggest what-ifs going - the Fairey Delta 2.
(Advertising disclaimer: This video was made with the assistance of the Fleet Air Arm Museum. I received no monetary compensation and any views expressed are my own and not those of the FAAM.)
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Super-sonic with neither afterburner nor area-ruling the fuselage is impressive.
Eyeball is suggesting it (perhaps accidentally) didn’t violate area rule as badly as the F-102 Delta Dagger - it is a little more swole further forward, aft of cockpit and around intakes a little less so a bit further aft as the wingspan increases
Rolls-Royce made some truly enviable engines back in the day. SAAB and Volvo were quietly furious that RR refused any good-faith or honest license production agreements with them.
Weird how the Americans were always available for business that British companies missed...
I’m not sure if a non area rule aircraft will go supersonic .. ?
@@stephenrickstrew7237 It does, but needs much more engine power to overcome the extra transsonic drag, that ugly F35 certainly doesn't use area rule, yet it goes supersonic, with enough thrust.
I would guess they perhaps unknowingly used area rule by testing different aircraft shapes in supersonic wind tunnel?
The OP and the first reply are so in line with what I was thinking that I can only assume they were posted by splinter personalities that take over when I black out.
"Delta 2 could have been a british Mirage..."
*Angry french rumbles*
"...which is arguably the finest multirole aircraft of the cold war."
Well played, Mr. Nash. Well played.
seems like the Navies moved on because of sudden changes of crosswinds across the deck in a landing pattern.
@@moss8448 the Delta 2 wasn't intended to be a naval fighter. It's purpose was to be a delta winged supersonic fighter for the RAF.
@@grahamepigney8565 do remember reading books about Navy test pilots and they (the Navy) were big on Delta wings in the `50's & `60's.
@@moss8448 that would be quite weird since the main drawback of deltas is the high approach speed on landing. An issue which was only solved by the Rafale, through combination of mobile canards and fly-by-wire.
Louise, not with the Mirage 2000 already?
Dassault was right too, we British are outstanding at coming up with new innovative ideas, and then either doing nothing with it whatsoever, or "giving it away" to someone else who makes a fortune off it and we get next to nothing. There's so many things in history we didn't capitalise on I don't even need to give examples, since most people can probably think of at least one themselves.
.... of which the jet engine is probably the biggest give-away of all time :(
" we British are outstanding at coming up with new innovative ideas, and then either doing nothing with it whatsoever, or "giving it away" to someone else who makes a fortune off it and we get next to nothing. " The French say the same about themselves!!
Totally agree,When you read why its staggering to find a lot of it came from the 'old guard' who cant see the future.Just look how much trouble Frank Whittle had trying to get money for the jet engine because of old boy Toffs with zero vision.It happened over and over again in British history.
The atomic bomb was another example of that. It started with the British "Tube Alloys" program, which was later folded into the American "Manhattan Project."
@@RobSchofield Closely or even equal to the cavity magnetron which made centimetric radar viable.
12:33 when even the french are calling you "clumsy and bureaucractic" ...you know you are in trouble.
that's funny
🤣
Too right!
I'm French and your comment made my day.
I thought we are giving this trophy around in Europe...
Ed I have to agree with your statement. The biggest obstacle to the British aviation industry had has is the government.
I've always admired it for it's imagination, design and development. But the government
feels like if you're trying to sprint a 100 meters with a 50lb ball around your ankle.
Eh.
Not like the aviation industry companies were paragons themselves mate.
Ties with government were rife - look up Lord Nuffield & Beaverbrook as examples.
@HighHopesBass Lord Nuffield, aka William Morris.
You know, the bloke who made Castle Bromwich the main aircraft factory for Supermarine Spitfires in 1938 together with Austin.
They also did something with automobiles, I think.
What a waste of opportunities in the late 50s. I love RAF and FAA aircraft. Some idiot in the Defence Ministry decided in 1957 that fighter aircraft were obsolete and air defence could be better provided by ground to air missiles. There could have been better fighters than the Lightning and even the beautiful Hawker Hunter.
Nice shout out for the FAA Museum :) Love how they have recreated a working flight deck and the simulated helicopter ride to the 'carrier' - definitely one of my favourites. Didn't realise I've seen both Delta 2's in person, d'oh
Duncan Sandys was to British aviation what Beeching was to British railways.
Amazing how so much damage was done by so few!
How the British government kicked the British aircraft industry in the nuts, episode xxxxxxxx. Great video
Brilliant video, the FD Delta 2 rates as one of my favourite aircraft. Great to see footage I have never seen before ty! I have had the pleasure of seeing these aircraft and can definitely recommend both museums, an excellent day out at both.
Absolutely! I visited both last summer and each has some great exhibits. The Test Flight hall at Cosford is hard to beat, given it contains the only TSR-2 and the only Bristol 188 as well as the Delta 2, the P1a and many others, but Yeovilton has some fantastic machines on display as well.
Test Flight hall is indeed amazing but the TSR-2 there is not the only example as there is another example at Duxford. Sadly though neither example is the airframe that actually flew.
Again something new to learn Mr. Nash. Being impressed by both the plane and your work.
Re the brief reference to the TSR 2: I worked for a British aerospace company 30 odd years ago alongside engineers who had worked on the TSR 2. I mentioned it out loud once; I didn't mention it out out loud again. The bitterness was off the scale. Similarly on business trips to Canada, re the Arrow...
My father was in the RCAF at the time the Arrow was being flight tested and, on his way home to visit his parents while he was on leave, stopped and watched one of the test flights for about 15-20 minutes. He said he had seen nothing like it before or since. The bitterness towards the Conservatives after they cancelled the Arrow was such that a large percentage of military personnel wouldn't vote Conservative in the federal elections for _decades_ afterwards.
@@blackenedmagic888…so sad we missed out on so many wonderful planes…..Conservatives and Labour as bad as each other……I just think we could and should have been the cutting edge in aeroplanes for the next 70 years…….but no…..respect to all who gave us such incredible planes….hey ho…..
first thing I noticed about the TSR 2 is it looks like the North American A-5 Vigilante
👍Another excellent video, thank you Ed. I remember seeing the 221 in the Yeovil museum years ago and it left quite an impression. I couldn't believe that such a modern looking fast aircraft had been designed basically in the 1950s. Not just the design of the airframe but of course the remarkable Avon engine.
Now as then our UK government should hang its head in shame for what they have done to Britian and its industry.
The British economy was hanging on a thread after WWII. There were hard choices that had to be made.
Great video. I never knew there was a "droop snoot" plane before the Concorde.
The Fairey Delta 2 is one awesome looking aircraft!!!!
Australia bought and operated the Mirage lll and operated them till about 1988... great looking aircraft and much beloved by their pilots.. fantastic article and research... English self-defeating Beaurocrats strike again...
Must admit the Mirage connection had never occurred to me so thanks for that Ed! Think I'd always known of these as purely test flight aircraft that did a couple of speed records then disappeared, and I didn't know they continued the flight programme in France.
Marcel Dassault took is name from the « nom de guerre » of his brother Darius Paul Bloch who was active in the French Resistance during WWII. The code name was « Chardasso » from « char d’assaut » which became simply « Dassault » (the double « ss » is to be pronounced like, you guessed it, in « assault » not like a « z » as in « zero », the « l » is not pronounced). Marcel Bloch built military airplanes before the war under his real name. He changed it to Dassault after the war.
Bloch was a marked-for-extermination name.
Yes, that Z in the middle was bothering me too.
A native English speaker should just say "dasso".
i believe the french cannot change their names, once registered- that is it- and there is a list of names you must choose from.
my french friends are amazed at the deed poll to change names- it is unheard of in France, and they immediately see the loopholes and fraud that can be committed.
18 years living in france- i never heard of anyone being able to change their name
@@MrTipperX If this is correct, thank you. That's how I've always pronounced it.
The test pilot who managed a dead stick mosewheel only landing from 30,000 feet did am amazing job!
Good summary, although I agree Fairey were perhaps optimistic in saying they could militarise the FD2 and have it through contractor and Service trials in 18 months, but then they didn't say which 18 months they were referring to! Fun facts about Peter Twiss: having survived WWII and the rigours of test pilot life he went on to some notable film appearances. In 1960 he flew a Swordfish in 'Sink The Bismarck', having qualified on the aircraft in his time in the FAA. Then in 1963 he drove one of the chasing SPECTRE power boats in 'From Russia With Love', in the sequence where Bond and Romanova escape Yugoslavia.
Even more impressive that it achieved this performance with half the power of a BAC Lightning.
The Delta 2 was around a third of the weight of an English Electric Lightning so the power/weight ratios are in the Lightning's favour.
@@grahamepigney8565 I think you in the favour of the Delta as you say 1/3 the weight but 1/2 the power. However drag is only partially a function of weight. The lightning achieved its impressive performance because in part because it had a low frontal area through its staggered engines. Effectively putting two engines in 3/4 the frontal area of the two engines.
With no support and refusal to use RAF airfields by the British government Fairy accepted the French offer to conduct trials in that country. This allowed the French to study a delta wing aircraft of a similar size to the one they where developing which emerged as the Mirage 3. The aircraft was also trialed in Norway and studied by the USAF for the same reason in the development of their Convair Delta Dagger and Delta Dart interceptors.
Thanks Ed. This is my new favorite plane. Absolutely stunning.
Had the pleasure of knowing Peter Twiss for a number of years, different days.
Yet another excellent, engaging, and informative presentation - kudos, Mr. Nash !
Gonna call it now, Ed is the next Mark Felton 😀
Well, we can't claim that until there's a Hitler parody;
Hopefully not given the shoddy research in Mark Felton's videos.
Hah! Ed is better than Mark Felton!
That was truly *excellent*! I would agree with your assessment of the quality of the collection at Yeovilton: they have really put an excellent story together in one of the best museums in the country, and it's worth every penny to visit. Although it's off topic, the Tank Museum in Bovington (not very far south) is of similar quality.
I am increasingly impressed by this channel - keep it up! The research, writing, and presentation is superb. Onward!
Excellent and informative video Ed! Very good!
Outstanding video! I really enjoy your channel!
Wow the Concorde clearly owes a number of design features to this lovely little plane.
Didn't they modify one of the Fairey FD-2's to the BAC 221 test plane, which tested the wing design of the Concorde?
@@Sacto1654 That is what the video said!
Tempted to say, the British had a tendency to shoot themselves in both feet when it comes to post-war aeronautical developments.
Yeah, but they really did a bang up job with their nukes, rockets and computers instead.
Monty Python's "Upper Class Twit" competition video demonstrates the issue.
Neat and tidy video. Well done Ed.
This is my favourite plane of all time I’ve been lucky enough to sit in the cockpit of the last fd2 the cockpit still has the writing from the engineers in pencil written over the instruments
Thank you for the video, wow, amazing shade of blue paint!
When Fairey is mentioned, I tend to think of the Gannet, certainly a different aircraft - !
And almost at the same time Sweden developed the SAAB 35 Draken which flew for the first time 1955. Also a delta wing design and might I say one of the most beautiful fighter jets ever built!
The Viggen was also quite a looker that lasted some thirty years' service.
I knew about the Delta 2 and remember pictures of it at the time.. I hadn't realised about it going to France and data supplying information for Dassault. Governments of both colours knew how to destroy an aircraft industry as they knew how to destroy railways.
I can confirm the FAA museum in Yeovil is a great day out, there are so many weird 50s-60s British prototypes in there it's like finding yourself in a Gerry Anderson Tracey Island theme park. (and note that the Haynes Motor museum, also well worth a visit, is only a short drive away)
And the Miles M52 could have broken the sound barrier with a jet before the Americans did with a rocket-plane. How about the Hawker P1154 ?
Dear Mr. Nash. Thank you for a (once again) valuable contribution to aerospace lore. The incredible stupidity and lack of foresightedness exhibited by British politicians is alas a phenomenon not altogether unknown in other countries. The combination of Tory stupidity, Labour socialism, and general lack of funds in post-WW2 Britain, explains a lot - but not all. One must also consider the influence of the trans-atlantic alliance. The US had no interest whatsoever in a viable aircraft industry in other countries than its own. That is the overwhelming factor behind Canadas decision to scrap the Avro Arrow project. I don't know to what extent the decision of Mr. Sandys (Churchill's son-in -law!) paper was influenced by the US, but a solid guess might be that a quid-pro-quo was engineered (presumably in the area of nuclear technology).
There are direct parallels across British Cold War projects, trying to balance an indigenous arms industry against trying to appease the "our way or the highway" Americans for the critical NATO alliance. All stemming from (in hindsight) paranoid and overblown fears of imminent Soviet attack clashing with British pride and self-imposed demands to maintain its status as a World Power.
Kind of baffling and tragic in hindsight, the British arms and aerospace industry's greatest challenge was London's chronic inability to _make a decision and stick to it,_ ever falling prey to second-guessing and project revisions/bloat.
The Defence White Paper of 1957 effectively strangled military aircraft development in the UK. As such, the UK ended up buying more the then-available Blackburn Buccaneer to fulfill the RAF's interdiction mission until the Panavia Tornado became finally available in 1980. And the RAF was forced to get a modified McDonnell-Douglas Phantom until the Eurofighter Typhoon arrived in 2003.
@@Vespuchian Yes, it's funny how threats don't seem to materialise when you invest in the means to deter them. Odd, that! Defence spending always seems wasteful in the absence of a good war. Wars tend to come to those who don't prepare for them though.
Shortsighted on rhe US's part- one would logically want a very long-standing ally 2 have as sound as possible a defense industry. But the US's behavior thru WW2 quickly went from numb 2 creepy, providing its own impedimentia 2 international processes. Very very sad.
Agree with the clumsy British government way of dealing with many big projects. I think most governments are prone to this like Macron's clumsy Aussie submarine deal.
Never heard of this plane - thanks! Also, I bought and read your book, and it is great. I learned a lot.
Thanks for your very good work!
What a beautiful, beautiful aircraft. Pilot's say, when it looks right, it usually flies right. I would have ordered them on looks alone!.... And yes, absolutely, F.A.A. museum Yeovilton is fantastic! Thanks for another great and informative video!
l think it is a shame that Briton quite building fighter aircraft cause they were so damn good at it.....Thanks Ed Nash for your outstanding
video's.....Shoe🇺🇸
Thank you for this fascinating insight into the Delta 2. As a child I had heard rumblings regarding the importance of this aircraft. My Great Uncle was Sir Richard Fairey , so this has really provided me with a great bit of family history. I have just found an original copy of “Outpacing the Sun “ on my book shelves. Ties in rather nicely , Best wishes, Mark A-T.
Great video mate, thank you👍
One of your best videos!!!
Another fantastic video
Thank you for posting
Simply awesome. A golden age of aviation.
Great video!
Very informative! Thanks! 💯
Going by looks, I am reminded of Convair's Delta Dagger/Dart.
The British had a tone of interesting aircraft. I feel that really would have put them so far ahead of the game but got let down by its own government
Just like Canada's Avro Arrow
What's new?! It is the same problem even today!
@@azzajames7661 i.e. 'corruption'
Successfully resisted the temptation to type: "First"! Ahem. Beautiful aircraft; a true "might-have-been"... I'm constantly amazed at how the British aviation industry was always forging ahead but was always scuppered by the Parliament. Sad. Ed, had you considered doing a video on how the aircraft of "Thunderbirds" were influenced by real aircraft? That would be so much fun to watch!
🥇 congratulations
What do you mean the thunderbirds are not real? They are a black ops service...
@@user-oo8xp2rf1k Hahahha!
@@user-oo8xp2rf1k the USAF has a flight demonstration team called the Thunderbirds
Superb video.
Yes it does remind me a lot of the Concorde, now that was one beautiful plane.
Well said Ed!
Thank you Ed ,
Love delta winged aircraft. Thank the big flyer upstairs that they weren't scrapped to make heaters and refrigerators. Only the nose lowers on the Concord unlike Delta 2.
I believe the Mirage has more in common with Convair's Delta Dagger and Dart that with the Fairey.
Hi Ed , I 've always been a fan of the Fairey Delta and living in Devon l'm only an hour away so l've been several times . My favourite (?) is the Westland Wyvern in bare metal with the magnificent RR Eagle power unit . Although l find all of the aircraft magnificent in their engineering . Thanks Ed.
My mates grandad worked on the BAC221, I remember meeting him and admiring a beautiful 1:24 scale model he was given when he retired. Great video as usual mate!
A beautiful plane almost like a miniature Concorde. Somehow all early Cold War Era planes have a sinister stinky mean appearance of death as if every plane was to carry a nuclear bomb being it a Piper Cub or a Nimrod. I wonder what remade Swordfish would have looked like.
Or like a dart dipped in poison;-)
@@azzajames7661 Just like that.
@@sealove79able They do have a great scary shape😜
@@azzajames7661 Spot on.
Nice video of an interesting prototype.
My dentist is on the Avenue Marcel Dassault lol. Great video. There is a good aircraft museum in Rochefort, next to the Ecole Gendarmerery if anyone finds themselves in this area on hols.
I love this channel
My Dad worked on both the Swordfish and the Delta.
I recall interviews with Peter twist with a recording of the 50th anniversary of the farnborough air show , he said back then “ that your performance was on the grass section on front of the audience and you can fly as low as you want , and the press were allowed to be on the grass to take photos , and some would take the photos , drop the camera and fall down on the grass passing out!” , this was when he was demonstrating the fairey delta 2
What a great looking aircraft.
One of my favourite planes, probably because I had the Solido 1/150 scale model when I was a kid (in the early 50s). And btw, it's Dassault, rhyming with assault and not with azo. Figures, since it comes from Marcel Bloch chosen nickname for rebranding his firm after ww2 as "Les Avions d'Assault" - ie "The Assault Planes".
When I was a lad the FD2 won the aur speed record at over 1,100 mph. It was a purely research aircraft, and helpful in the Concorde design.
In the summer of 1959 I was on airfield crash rescue duty at RAF Leeming when the FD2 landed for a refuelling stop. I was off duty when it took off.
Hi Ed, another interesting point might be made for the elongated nose of the Fairy Delta 2 and the current NASA needle nosed supersonic plane being developed as a potential SST, it features an extremely long nose as a sonic boom disrupter.
I know the 221 well as I used to work at the Fleet Air Arm Museum in the late ‘90s.
Interesting kite.
If there was an ever an aircraft where the saying “if it looks good, it flies good” then this is one of those aircraft, it’s a beautiful and sleek looking aircraft.
I saw WG777 at Cosford museum last w/e when I went to airshow. The info board said about the droop nose but I couldn't see the exact place where it moved. Having seen this video now I know from the footage.
What a beautiful plane!
As an aside, but connected, Robert Calvert of the Rock Band Hawkwind, produced an album called "Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters" well worth listening to the satyrical take on the times with that aircraft and Germany.
Sadly Ed, Your comments and those of Marcel Dassault are correct. The results of this political error have been duplicated several time in defence matters resulting in lack of exports for GB plc. Thanks for your very informative series on aviation matters.
The FD-2 with the Bristol 188 &
the Short weird tadpole aircraft (sorry I forgot the name)
were the test platforms for the Concorde.
Excellent
Excellent exposition on the fate of the British aerospace industry encapsulated in the story of these two remarkable machines. I wish there was some way to knock sense into politicians...
Thanks Ed … She sure is one beautiful aircraft.. even on the ground she’s very poised … It would really take a horrible mind to cancel such a splendid plane ..yet another reason I don’t think very much of Duncan Sands ..
The FAA museum is truly stunning, can't recomend it enough.
The Fairey FD-2 :
The epitome in British aesthetics & efficiency
When you see it you can but conclude that it’s British & no
one else’s.
The UK had a variety of designs that were essentially testbeds for a range of ideas that never went anywhere or, are largely forgotten. The English Electric Lightning was one of the few exceptions being developed from a testbed. It's quite and interesting subject in itself. Was the Vulcan a development of a Barnes Wallis idea? Not certain but Wallis was definitely looking at the flying wing concept for some ime.
Have you ever heard of the British Brothers, the Wroighte Twins? They could have created the first aeroplane in 1903 if it weren't for that blasted conjoined thing they had a bother with.
Between U.S. bullying and British indecisiveness, nothing good could be achieved in the way of a fighter.
This aircraft is an interesting surprise coming from Fairey. Clearly, they understood more about modern aircraft than their earlier history would suggest.
Maybe they learnt quickly from captured German aircraft technology? Just a thought.
@@anthonyxuereb792 I very much doubt it. Not sure that they had a supersonic delta wing fighter(Not even close)
u tellin me this was from the same people who made the firebrand?? great video ed
What is most impressive is the fact that both aircraft still exist and were not involved in fatal crashes during testing.
Hi Ed!
I see the Fairey Delta 2 is posed between the Hawker-Siddeley Kestrel and the H/S Harrier. Good company.
Remember seeing the Fairey delta on test flights at Woodford same time as Avro Vulcan
Mirage, the "finest multi-role aircraft of the Cold War". Hmm, definitely up there in the ranking, and one could argue anything, but I'm thinking more like F-4.
Fairey was absorbed into Westland Helicopters Ltd.
It also reminds me of the F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart...
I wonder how much information from the Miles M52 went into the Delta 2. We know a lot went into Lightning and possibly into TSR2.
Yes and the data was given to the yanks. Guess what, they used it for the Bell X program to break the sound barrier!
Amazing aircraft, all more remarkable given an indifferent government. Also Terribly sad as a symbol of how the UK manage to almost totally loose its legacy of advanced aircraft industry.
Wasn't there some German research done during the war by Lipich (hope I spelt his name right) that fell in to British hands after the war? I seem to remember finding out that the Vulcan design benefited from that.. I guess this aircraft would have aswell?.
I think his name was Alexander Lippisch?