Ahmed Shokry He is saying that they will nerf Sub-Zero. Highly doubt it tho since NRS hasn’t touched Sub even once despite how OP he is online for a WHOLE YEAR. I swear NRS is one of the dumbest Fighting Game developers in the world no wonder MK11 flops hard
@@jonwhite549 You mean THE very best. Not even trying to jerk off sonic fox here but he has been and continues to be the most advanced and dangerous NRS player to date. Not to diss ninjakilla, dragon , foxy grandpa , etc but lets be real. Sonic is just that 1 step ahead. That said lets also not pretend people will just admit that they suck because he said it lmao. Havent you heard? Its the games fault, not mine.
@@HorrorrificFun Yup. I think the only person who contends with him is Dragon and that's it. When these people tell you how the game works, you just listen and nod.
@@17thknight Nah youre downplaying the rest of em too hard. Ninjakilla is epic , foxy grandpa is an OG , tweedy grinds the everloving shit out of the games he plays. Legit its ok to respect fox but in all honesty dont think for a second that the rest of the top players are slouches. Anybody that has been in top 8s at majors is a superb player. Thats just a fact.
It baffles me that this man can dominate the FGC for nearly a decade, and instead of taking in the free information the kombat league sweaties attempt to mock him for his tierlist. How arrogant can you be? Him finally just addressing that they were all shit was insanely satisfying.
Its true tho. coz at least 90% of the mk11 player base learn one string that does 30%+ damage and input it randomly. no footsies, no reads, no mind games. just one or two strings that start with overhead/low and they think they know how to play the game. its crazy tho how you can get away with that in mk11 and still win many games
neon yea dude! Sadly this game didn’t cut as long as I wanted it to for me. It kinda upset me cuz mkx and inj2 were the first two games I took more seriously and actually practiced and learned FG terms. I’m still trying to get better but I put in work! But This game different man. You can just do stuff and it works sometimes and although there are many ways around certain things.... it’s just not like the other ones. This game brings more stress for some reason lmaoo
neon mkx was worse tho. Nothing but 50/50s littered all over the place with just random things starting a snowball of a loss lol even though this is shit it’s still an upgrade from the last game
remember guys, this is not an online tier list. this is a tier list on how pro players view it. everyone here cant react to sub zeros forward 2. including me
Nobody can, not even Sonic. That’s a myth he put out there but he ain’t reacting to that in an actual match where he has to be on the lookout for other things.
You're still at a disadvantage. He's not complete. And his buffs still take too long. I mained shao khan and did lots of labbing with him. I had to learn other characters in the case I ran into someone playing playing a character they knew shao khan had a hard time against. I've recently decided to take a break from all fighting games. It's been like weeks now but I'm excited for sheeva
Ehh, his tiers are massively inflated. e.g. He literally states that Shao Kahn is missing things(difficulty getting in, and keeping pressure unless he plays it risky, obtuse KB requirements, etc) and you have to work harder to make him win. How is a character that is denied the tools to create his win condition supposed to be A-(supposed to be top tier)? Id prefer he picks a character that's supposed to be the "standard" and puts them in B/B+ tier and arrange the list accordingly. In comparison: UNIST, another game SF played, has Mika: A character that has trouble getting in, keeping pressure going without blowing herself up and is missing her vorpal trait(almost the same problems as Shao Kahn). She was considered C tier, but was still highly competitive and saw regular representation in top 8s. Also a bad character doesn't suddenly become good because of a skill/knowledge gap. I can easily trounce people who are less skilled than me with joke characters too, don't mean those joke characters are good.
@@ItsJustTeddington Standard isn't B though, standards A, Shao Kahn is below standards meaning he's A-... I don't see the problem here 🤨 the guy is literally the only one in A-, why are you complaining 😂
@@veaperz7459 lulwat. Tiers are based on the grading system. C is for characters that pass. B is for characters that are good. A is for characters that obviously have an advantage and S is made for the characters that fulfill their win condition by the mere fact that they exist. He literally calls characters he places in tier A as "under developed" and "has issues".
@@ItsJustTeddington You literally just contradicted yourself, you called C which is the lowest grade a "pass" which means if you put Shao Khan at the bottom he "passes"... What!? 😂 C means fucking terrible, S+ means broken
30:37 This phrase is something the majority of players of ANY competitive game simply don't understand. It always baffles me how a totally average player has the nerve to tell the best players in the world with 10000 times more playtime and knowledge, that their take about a character, weapon, ability, stage, etc. is wrong. Just look at Tier Lists made by not-pro players in the Subreddits of populars multiplayer games, they suck ass.
This tier list no lie, imo IMO sucks ass towards the bottom end. Plus this is his competitive tier list which is also why sub zero is around the bottom. Say what you want but this is a bad tier list to refer to when looking for a main or something. Because this is for professional esports tournaments which most of us will never compete or play in
Gauzy I mean I guess but also I haven’t seen anyone play some of the characters he said were good in any tournaments but maybe I just haven’t caught it.
Sonic saying we all TRASH! RESPECT! Its true. This community is easily one of the most spoiled FGC communities. All we do is complain and we are deathly alergic to practise mode. Ill be honest I dont like to sit in practise. Im not very creative I find a combo and I just spam it. I practise shimmies and pressure but realistically I put so little time into exploring options and developing my/other characters. That is hard work so I dont do it. The reality of the situation is that most players would rather complain then learn . Not even shade , I dont like to work hard either. Its still true though. Most of us have no idea what we are talking about.
To be fair damn near every character only has one optimal combo. I play a custom kotal kahn variation and pretty much win by wiff punishing everyone with his back 2 2 into command grab. labbing would make me a way better player but since everyone plays the same top tiers I learn what can and cant be punished as I play online matches.
@@DOODOOBUTT_ yeah labing can be mad boring in this game but honestly youre not supposed to lab for your optimal hit konfirm and call it a day. You have to lab situations, edge case scenarions, option selects , fuzzy guard , proper blocking, flawless block timeings etc etc. Get yourself familiar with all the options and how they interact with each other and such. If you call combo practice labing then youre missing out.
Look there are levels to this. For some it's fun. For some others it's a hobby. For a select few, it's a job. If you just having fun, don't sweat learning what the employee knows.
@@dgayle2348 Nobody ever said you need to play as well as sonic. For the majority its not going to be their job or even their desire to become the best. It only for the select few. But the problem occurs because the people who know the least about the game complain the most. Sometimes changes are made to make it easier on the players that suck even if the character is already balanced or worse yet in need of buffs at a high level. At the end of the day it becomes a hateful quest to get everything strong out of the game while also complaining to the dev team they made the game too restrictive and characters dont get to do strong stuff. Its impossible to balance around these people yet the very often find it their solemn duty to make sure Ed cant tweet about anything without being reminded of their existance. At some point you have to wonder when is it enough?
Ever since I wanted to pick my first main (sub zero), I sat in practice mode and came up with a ~31% combo all on my own. I sat through it with Kabal and Raiden too. I still use it with other characters. I have used practice mode since the first day, but I just play like one every three weeks (which is why I keep on failing hardcore in fights). I thought that other people did what I did too, but apparently not so when he said that most of the community is trash.
If you make top 16 at majors, that’s the only time tier list are relevant. Tier lists only apply to tournament players for offline play.. People that don’t even go to tournaments are concerned about a list that doesn’t apply to them.. The list is set based on what the character is able to do vs other characters, not by what you can do with the character. Find your play-style and work on being the best with that character. Play the character you enjoy. Not everybody likes to rushdown so Kang being #1 doesn’t apply to you because you can’t execute on the lvl that makes him #1.
@@parisarnett87 With everything he said, I still use Liu Kang and Scorpion because they’re my favorites to use in the different games, but Kotal Kahn and Cassie are actually my favorites for this one specifically.
I main Cassie cause her mother’s death and her reaction to it made me tear up for the first time in a fighting game story. But I do love these kinds of videos because they’re so helpful for understanding the other characters in the game outside your main. So while you’re right about tier lists not mattering much outside top level play, they are informative for even us casual players.
I’m happy with the game, it’s very balanced and that’s showcased because sonic believes half the cast is S tier which I agree. And yes! I’ve always thought avalanche is so good, he gets his trap out and you can’t do much. Can’t jump at him, can’t throw a projectile because he can slide, you just have to wait. You have to play his game like the whole time when he gets his trap out.
Tells his watchers that 99.9% of them actually suck at this game and they watch other people play the game because they are trash at their own main character lol. Kinda true to all games
DragonKamran24 huh? Kinda contradicted yourself. DOW isn’t viable without the overhead into ice ball. So would you want to increase the frames? It’s already negative on hit and block (f2).
thats the fault of the devs tho. mk11 is literally 90% memorizing 30%+ combos and just inputting them randomly trying to open up the opponent. no footsies, no reads, just brainless sequences of strings after strings pressuring. I played demi gods and gods that literally spam the same string the entire game and can stay in top 3 ranks. same for grandmaster/master. the game is flawed if people who have no experience and sense for fighting games can get away with one string. of course they will get shut down quick by seasoned fighting game players that read and punish them accordingly. but its crazy how many brainless people can win games in mk11
Neon bruh according to what you said I am brainless and I know it...I win most of my games but just don't enjoy them because I'm mashing the same moves...any idea how to get good? Plz help me
The worse part is the delay from online like man fuck sake I know I am plus so why I am getting grabbed right now? No actually the worse part is trying to do a move but the game not Recognizing the input and making you use the wrong move 😓
jorge2060shake OMG YOU ARE ON THE MONEY! For example, Scorpion is +2 on block with one of his miserably blade cancels but people are able to poke or even grab you at times and it’s ridiculous! I should be able to back Dash before you can mash a D1. Also, your last point I agree! I can do a combo and input the buttons correctly but the move sometimes doesn’t come out and I hate that !!!
I don't think it was a specific comment, he was just sick of people trying to tell him where to put characters when 99% of them don't compete at the level he does. NRS community has a bad rap for being toxic about tiers.
@@shawnjohnson242 actually I don t give a shit about Robocop. I just like to point out when people like you have a statement about facts that comes out of nowhere
nothing wrong with personal lists. If you are a beginer then the list doesnt apply to you anyways and if you are good at the game youll know if a list is horse shit. I see no problem.
No, if I want I wanna make a tier list, if I wanna rank shao Khan at S+ i will and if I wanna rank joker at D I will. Speaking he is a professional player and one of the best so his list would be unbelievably different to ours
@@TubTheGreat Yep , my thoughts exactly . As my comment above stated , the tier list sonic presented is only effective once you know what they know. People all too often take the lists as gospel but have no real idea why a character is placed there to begin with. If you dont know EXACTLY why a character is there then the list doesnt yet apply to you. On the other side of things these same players often dismiss the lists when a character they hate and want to see nerfed is placed on the lower end. I think its just a classic case of confimation bias.
I don't Play 11 but watched this entire video because there's a lot to love about one of the best breaking down any fighting game. Thanks for the Upload FOX!
When he said "yall are trash" actually humbled me so hard lmao. I was sitting there like "Sindel is not A tier, what are you smoking" then I realised I have never won of even attempt to win a major in my life and that I should shut up and let the professional talk.
As a Raiden main, Raijin is good but what about his other 2 variations? I main Thunderwave and it has glaring issues. Mainly due to frames and hitbox issues. We won't bring up his 3rd. I hope they buff him in Aftermath.
@@MysticShiv3r I wouldn't be surprised. This nigga Sonic don't help either. I can beat my trash friends with Raiden too. Does that mean I'm good or I'm good with a solid character? If the 99% weren't supporting this clown, he wouldn't have a career.
@@Chev_chevo One could argue SF is being paid or told by NRS that Raiden is S tier. Tin foily hat I know but think about it for a min. Why so much focus on Raijin? His 6f reversal is not broken or busted like he states. Raijin is not a fix for all. Either way, our boi needs buffs and whilst I appreciate he is without question the GOAT in the fgc (certainly MK wise) his opinion is not gospel. Regards TW, I too can beat ppl but when they realise the SC duck trick and his flawed hitboxes and a B12 that is fucking *-9* on block, your goosed. Suffice to say, he has literally wrecked any chance of buffs. I think personally, it is deliberate. Do the research and form your own conclusion.
Raiden is super fun to play I really hope he does get buffs. Shame that he probably won’t get them because people act like raijin is the only variation.
@@MysticShiv3r Honestly man, the longer Raiden goes without, the more idgaf. Just finding myself playing this game less and less (maybe once or twice a week). But we'll see if he gets buffed when Aftermath comes out...
It feels like he doesn't wanna hurt the character's feelings, witch is not a bad thing, I also think the balance work Netherelm's is doing is actually great, even if you compare it to other fighting games... Except with Shao Khan, pliz get this man a buff
30:30 I come back to this video every now and again to remind myself that the MK community are actually spoiled children that would rather complain about characters and mechanics than figure out how to beat said characters and mechanics
In a previous tier list they said that Skarket is mad boring, in this one she’s mad fun. I wonder what changed the opinion. I’ve mained her since the very first betas and I can see the argument for both.
Skarlet is mad boring trash, she does not even have combos, just the same leg kicking into special move trash, or 212 212 leg kick tentacle trash. At full screen throw your shit. Damn boring character, just like most of the girls are khm cassie, khm jade....
@@BozsoGabor facts. Skarlet, Jade, and Cetrion are all projectile spam characters by design. Which is why I laughed at Dragon when he picked Cetrion and spammed his way to victory. Remember when he picked characters that required skill?
Fuck, this Skarlet bit taught me how wrong I was playing Skarlet. You mean I can do more than full-screen zone? I've got a whole new play style to learn now. Thank you!
0:50 as a complete noob not just to MK11, but to fighting games in general, can someone please explain how online play makes a difference? Like, why would subzero, or any kther character for that matter, play any better/worse online than offline?
Some moves are within a few frames to be unreadable, online lag basically makes them that way or reduces the timing down to a few frames which most people don’t have the reaction time to be able to block
@@IfWhatYes But that's the exact same netcode that NRS used for MKX and IJ2, and we all know how awesome the netcode is, and the thing that you mentioned about moves being unreadable wasn't the case for those games, I for one didn't notice anything between playing offline or online for MKX or IJ2, and now also for MK11.
@@IfWhatYes Yes, but Sonic makes it sound like the difference is night and day. If the difference is indeed mere frames like you say, then it's really not big at all, for any of those games (MKX, IJ2 and MK11).
I personally main joker and I believe the only time I have a hard match is against jade. if she puts her shield on your jack in the box moves won’t work and she can possibly out-zone you. This was a great tier list!
Chidubem Modilim dude its crazy. overhead into slide. overhead pause an into throw. overhead pause and reset to his back 2 low string. if you have a good sub who isnt obvious with A-B-C patterns (as many shockingly are) its impossible to read.
This a great definitive tier list as of now! That’s coming for a Fan Fare Kitana main. The characters in -S and below are just characters that struggle more than others because there really under developed. Good job Sonic and do you have any tips for being a better Kitana player!
Yes there will, if not NRS is stupid. Just cuz sonic said final tier list doesn’t mean the game is done. His word isn’t law. He’ll make more tier lists too I’d bet, unless he thinks the next patch will make everyone so balanced there will be no point in tier lists. Maybe that’s why he said final tier list
15 minutes into this i completely forgot this was a tierlist and not a how to beat sub zero guide
patch is coming. Ninjakilla plays avalanche that last month /two months so yeah.....
@@acceptpapara Can you link it please? Can I find any information about changes? Thx a lot
@@zoltanzerohero3099 On the 26th of May, when the story expansion etc are coming, most likely that's when we'll get a new balance patch.
@@acceptpapara ,,so u are guessing they will buff sub-zero ???
Ahmed Shokry He is saying that they will nerf Sub-Zero. Highly doubt it tho since NRS hasn’t touched Sub even once despite how OP he is online for a WHOLE YEAR. I swear NRS is one of the dumbest Fighting Game developers in the world no wonder MK11 flops hard
What I've got from this vid:
1. 80% of chars are stupid
2. 99% of chat are dumb at MK
Hey, one of the very best said it.
@@jonwhite549 You mean THE very best. Not even trying to jerk off sonic fox here but he has been and continues to be the most advanced and dangerous NRS player to date. Not to diss ninjakilla, dragon , foxy grandpa , etc but lets be real. Sonic is just that 1 step ahead. That said lets also not pretend people will just admit that they suck because he said it lmao. Havent you heard? Its the games fault, not mine.
True. Play with what you can.
@@HorrorrificFun Yup. I think the only person who contends with him is Dragon and that's it. When these people tell you how the game works, you just listen and nod.
@@17thknight Nah youre downplaying the rest of em too hard. Ninjakilla is epic , foxy grandpa is an OG , tweedy grinds the everloving shit out of the games he plays. Legit its ok to respect fox but in all honesty dont think for a second that the rest of the top players are slouches. Anybody that has been in top 8s at majors is a superb player. Thats just a fact.
Shao Kahn- 0:25
Sub Zero- 0:50
Sindel - 17:08
Scorpion - 19:15
Skarlet - 21:05
Kitana - 30:10
Jade- 30:22
Sonya - 31:25
Spawn- 32:36
Baraka- 33:07
Erron Black- 35:44
Dvorah - 43:10
Jax- 43:52
Kano 45:00
Kollector 53:03
Noob 53:50
Night wolf 54:09
Raiden 54:39
Frost 56:29
Kabal 57:20
Shang Tsung 57:42
Kung lao/kotal Kahn 57:45
Terminator 58:23
Cassie 59:09
Geras 1:00:35
Johnny cage 1:01:00
Jacqui 1:01:25
Cetrion 1:01:55
Joker/Liu kang 1:03:10
You're the best!
what a freakin goat
your boss
Your doing the honors...I was looking for this comment...you are fully appreciated
This shows how balanced this game really is.
It baffles me that this man can dominate the FGC for nearly a decade, and instead of taking in the free information the kombat league sweaties attempt to mock him for his tierlist. How arrogant can you be? Him finally just addressing that they were all shit was insanely satisfying.
David Christ When he said that I *felt that*
I stopped the video at that to point give it like. That was real as hell🎯🎯🥋
Where in the vid does he say?
@@cheatermccheat6378 like 30:30 I believe. Said it a couple times lol
I’m confused, why is being a demeaning gatekeeping asshole okay?
The part where sonic said 99% of us suck lmaooo I felt that
Its true tho. coz at least 90% of the mk11 player base learn one string that does 30%+ damage and input it randomly. no footsies, no reads, no mind games. just one or two strings that start with overhead/low and they think they know how to play the game. its crazy tho how you can get away with that in mk11 and still win many games
neon yea dude! Sadly this game didn’t cut as long as I wanted it to for me. It kinda upset me cuz mkx and inj2 were the first two games I took more seriously and actually practiced and learned FG terms. I’m still trying to get better but I put in work! But This game different man. You can just do stuff and it works sometimes and although there are many ways around certain things.... it’s just not like the other ones. This game brings more stress for some reason lmaoo
@@yopeepthestyle8308 I beat their ass just low hit grabbing baiting out their down 2 then grabbing again
@@agtrherhger484 👍👏
neon mkx was worse tho. Nothing but 50/50s littered all over the place with just random things starting a snowball of a loss lol even though this is shit it’s still an upgrade from the last game
oh and shout-out to the fact that sonic told the entire stream like "y'all suck, ok?"
will nelson 3 times
Instant like when they said 99% of us suck at this game
Sahi hai Bhái !
Like? Don’t you mean dislike
@@PlaceofPower1776 nah bc sonic is arguably the best mk player and has way more understanding than the majority of chat lol
@@PlaceofPower1776 why get offended by the truth
@@PlaceofPower1776 not at all.
This guy has the most inconsistent volume output I've ever heard
He’s like having a panic attack every sentence
Dude seriously very cringe
And he says like alottttt
remember guys, this is not an online tier list. this is a tier list on how pro players view it. everyone here cant react to sub zeros forward 2. including me
It's not how pro players view it, it's how 1 pro player views it
Nobody can, not even Sonic. That’s a myth he put out there but he ain’t reacting to that in an actual match where he has to be on the lookout for other things.
vergilkilla1 In this video he literally had to be on the lookout for other things.
vergilkilla1 in this vid he proved he can react to that mixup with throws, lows, AND overheads lmao. What else would he have to look out for?
Every S- and above tier as explained by Sonicfox: “So this character is basically stupid.”
Noob
I like how he says that no character is "bad" because in the hands of a good player, Shao Kahn could be S+
You're still at a disadvantage. He's not complete. And his buffs still take too long. I mained shao khan and did lots of labbing with him. I had to learn other characters in the case I ran into someone playing playing a character they knew shao khan had a hard time against. I've recently decided to take a break from all fighting games. It's been like weeks now but I'm excited for sheeva
Ehh, his tiers are massively inflated. e.g. He literally states that Shao Kahn is missing things(difficulty getting in, and keeping pressure unless he plays it risky, obtuse KB requirements, etc) and you have to work harder to make him win. How is a character that is denied the tools to create his win condition supposed to be A-(supposed to be top tier)? Id prefer he picks a character that's supposed to be the "standard" and puts them in B/B+ tier and arrange the list accordingly.
In comparison: UNIST, another game SF played, has Mika: A character that has trouble getting in, keeping pressure going without blowing herself up and is missing her vorpal trait(almost the same problems as Shao Kahn). She was considered C tier, but was still highly competitive and saw regular representation in top 8s.
Also a bad character doesn't suddenly become good because of a skill/knowledge gap. I can easily trounce people who are less skilled than me with joke characters too, don't mean those joke characters are good.
@@ItsJustTeddington Standard isn't B though, standards A, Shao Kahn is below standards meaning he's A-... I don't see the problem here 🤨 the guy is literally the only one in A-, why are you complaining 😂
@@veaperz7459 lulwat. Tiers are based on the grading system. C is for characters that pass. B is for characters that are good. A is for characters that obviously have an advantage and S is made for the characters that fulfill their win condition by the mere fact that they exist. He literally calls characters he places in tier A as "under developed" and "has issues".
@@ItsJustTeddington You literally just contradicted yourself, you called C which is the lowest grade a "pass" which means if you put Shao Khan at the bottom he "passes"... What!? 😂 C means fucking terrible, S+ means broken
30:31 mans just obliterated the chat. Y’all gone respect the king of this shit man. Lol
30:37 This phrase is something the majority of players of ANY competitive game simply don't understand.
It always baffles me how a totally average player has the nerve to tell the best players in the world with 10000 times more playtime and knowledge, that their take about a character, weapon, ability, stage, etc. is wrong.
Just look at Tier Lists made by not-pro players in the Subreddits of populars multiplayer games, they suck ass.
This tier list no lie, imo IMO sucks ass towards the bottom end. Plus this is his competitive tier list which is also why sub zero is around the bottom. Say what you want but this is a bad tier list to refer to when looking for a main or something. Because this is for professional esports tournaments which most of us will never compete or play in
Gauzy I mean I guess but also I haven’t seen anyone play some of the characters he said were good in any tournaments but maybe I just haven’t caught it.
@@TubTheGreat tier lists only matter at top level anyway.
"Even gods like me bleed"
Lmao
Lmaoo
thats a bar lol
LS VISION they are extra and I’m here for it
30:31 Sonic just crucified the chat lmao
Single handedly ended the chats whole career. I felt that and I wasn't even in the chat
Mad respect for that haha
NERO KNIGHT that’s why you see cheesy ass Kangs and subs online. People don’t wanna learn anything hard.
d1, d1, d1 grab, d1, d1, you try to poke back eScApEfAiLd
~Kim K smirking~ "It's what [they] deserve :)"
I feel like the characters varies both offline and online some are actually good in Kombat league
Godwill Dovan *cough* sub-zero *cough*
Sub Zero is Nummer 1 Kl lmao
That's every fighting game
@@dec2567 laugh on KI
@@jasonlobo2350 ki is the exception not the standard. Did you see the evo lineup? Only a handful of games have good net code.
SonicFox: "My Final Tier List"
Fujin, Sheeva, and Robocop: "Allow us to introduce ourselves."
Plus fujin looks s tier ish by the little that has been shown
@@shawnjohnson242 How do you deduce that?
@@shawnjohnson242
right... and Spawn looked S tier but turned out to be an above average but not broken character
He said final tier list BEFORE AFTERMATH
Robocop S+ 😍
i love how i lost a game against a sub online and he told me “sonic literally said he’s shit in his tier list”
Someone didn’t pay attention
Sonic said online he is god tier bud
Offline...
1:13:14 - I have always suspected that Sonic Fox does things like this, but dang. He just confirmed it! This kid is a chess player.
Sonic saying we all TRASH! RESPECT! Its true. This community is easily one of the most spoiled FGC communities. All we do is complain and we are deathly alergic to practise mode. Ill be honest I dont like to sit in practise. Im not very creative I find a combo and I just spam it. I practise shimmies and pressure but realistically I put so little time into exploring options and developing my/other characters. That is hard work so I dont do it. The reality of the situation is that most players would rather complain then learn . Not even shade , I dont like to work hard either. Its still true though. Most of us have no idea what we are talking about.
To be fair damn near every character only has one optimal combo. I play a custom kotal kahn variation and pretty much win by wiff punishing everyone with his back 2 2 into command grab. labbing would make me a way better player but since everyone plays the same top tiers I learn what can and cant be punished as I play online matches.
@@DOODOOBUTT_ yeah labing can be mad boring in this game but honestly youre not supposed to lab for your optimal hit konfirm and call it a day. You have to lab situations, edge case scenarions, option selects , fuzzy guard , proper blocking, flawless block timeings etc etc. Get yourself familiar with all the options and how they interact with each other and such. If you call combo practice labing then youre missing out.
Look there are levels to this. For some it's fun. For some others it's a hobby. For a select few, it's a job. If you just having fun, don't sweat learning what the employee knows.
@@dgayle2348 Nobody ever said you need to play as well as sonic. For the majority its not going to be their job or even their desire to become the best. It only for the select few. But the problem occurs because the people who know the least about the game complain the most. Sometimes changes are made to make it easier on the players that suck even if the character is already balanced or worse yet in need of buffs at a high level. At the end of the day it becomes a hateful quest to get everything strong out of the game while also complaining to the dev team they made the game too restrictive and characters dont get to do strong stuff. Its impossible to balance around these people yet the very often find it their solemn duty to make sure Ed cant tweet about anything without being reminded of their existance. At some point you have to wonder when is it enough?
Ever since I wanted to pick my first main (sub zero), I sat in practice mode and came up with a ~31% combo all on my own. I sat through it with Kabal and Raiden too. I still use it with other characters. I have used practice mode since the first day, but I just play like one every three weeks (which is why I keep on failing hardcore in fights). I thought that other people did what I did too, but apparently not so when he said that most of the community is trash.
Its a final mk11 tier list because the after math dlc hasn't drop yet. so he knows
Tbh they need to start touching frame data to top tier characters tho
Especially Jaqui she takes no risk.
No you dong, that's one of the reasons why they're top tier
MixupCity LordeEmperorNic she loses defensive meter which makes her helpless if you read and punish correctly
No, they should buff everyone else. Mkx was fun cuz broken
Nah instead they should make all the low tiers better before touching the top tiers.
Sonicfox: i main this character Also sonicfox: i main every character
Everybody tryna comment first and I'm over here with my note pads taking notes
FACTS
GizmoTunes Thanks for the idea bro :)
I want to give u an upvote but you're at 69 rn😅
I'm really taking notes. Getting ready for aftermath
Loool!
Thanks to sonicfox Raiden is never getting buffed....
That S Tier Raiden is Raijin and the rest variation is -A. Hahahah
Ryan Morgan bro he made me feel a lil guilty about using raiden. Cause he is very good. He just is
@@Blackkey034 only raijin is and that's due to his special moves, his base toolkit is terrible
Raiden is good. I trust Sonic's word more than a random player who only spams d1 and grabs, which is 99% of the players, like he said.
Angel he literally only talked about how good raijin is, variation 1 and 3 are terrible
Crazy thing about this tier list is everyone on that top row (except joker) got a nerf and they still top 7.
I love sonic Tier List he breaks em
down and used all characters so man dope
this dude is either whispering or screaming
If you make top 16 at majors, that’s the only time tier list are relevant. Tier lists only apply to tournament players for offline play.. People that don’t even go to tournaments are concerned about a list that doesn’t apply to them.. The list is set based on what the character is able to do vs other characters, not by what you can do with the character. Find your play-style and work on being the best with that character. Play the character you enjoy. Not everybody likes to rushdown so Kang being #1 doesn’t apply to you because you can’t execute on the lvl that makes him #1.
this nigga spittin...
Absolutely
@@parisarnett87 With everything he said, I still use Liu Kang and Scorpion because they’re my favorites to use in the different games, but Kotal Kahn and Cassie are actually my favorites for this one specifically.
I main Cassie cause her mother’s death and her reaction to it made me tear up for the first time in a fighting game story.
But I do love these kinds of videos because they’re so helpful for understanding the other characters in the game outside your main. So while you’re right about tier lists not mattering much outside top level play, they are informative for even us casual players.
I’m happy with the game, it’s very balanced and that’s showcased because sonic believes half the cast is S tier which I agree. And yes! I’ve always thought avalanche is so good, he gets his trap out and you can’t do much. Can’t jump at him, can’t throw a projectile because he can slide, you just have to wait. You have to play his game like the whole time when he gets his trap out.
Tells his watchers that 99.9% of them actually suck at this game and they watch other people play the game because they are trash at their own main character lol. Kinda true to all games
Next Video: The tier list saga continues.
He ain’t lying about the sub zero he’s mad annoying online
Slide, overhead, slide, overhead.
ZeNk his overhead isn’t a problem if he has slide. Dead of winter with overhead is the problem, he combos off of it.
DragonKamran24 huh? Kinda contradicted yourself. DOW isn’t viable without the overhead into ice ball. So would you want to increase the frames? It’s already negative on hit and block (f2).
Robert Molina In conclusion, fuck mk11 sub zero.
Bzrkls ok boomer
i like how you went in depth on what are the things that make the characters good are and their weaknesses are, your descriptions at top tier
Alot of players just smash not respecting frames
thats the fault of the devs tho. mk11 is literally 90% memorizing 30%+ combos and just inputting them randomly trying to open up the opponent. no footsies, no reads, just brainless sequences of strings after strings pressuring. I played demi gods and gods that literally spam the same string the entire game and can stay in top 3 ranks. same for grandmaster/master. the game is flawed if people who have no experience and sense for fighting games can get away with one string. of course they will get shut down quick by seasoned fighting game players that read and punish them accordingly. but its crazy how many brainless people can win games in mk11
Neon bruh according to what you said I am brainless and I know it...I win most of my games but just don't enjoy them because I'm mashing the same moves...any idea how to get good? Plz help me
Sum_Dum_Gai play mkx. It’s where I started playing mk and it’s a bit more balanced and more skill based. Online matches are gonna be hard to find tho
The worse part is the delay from online like man fuck sake I know I am plus so why I am getting grabbed right now? No actually the worse part is trying to do a move but the game not Recognizing the input and making you use the wrong move 😓
jorge2060shake OMG YOU ARE ON THE MONEY! For example, Scorpion is +2 on block with one of his miserably blade cancels but people are able to poke or even grab you at times and it’s ridiculous! I should be able to back Dash before you can mash a D1.
Also, your last point I agree! I can do a combo and input the buttons correctly but the move sometimes doesn’t come out and I hate that !!!
This is a proper tier list and its so objective and even has demonstration.
When sonic means he mains somebody he really means it’s a high chance of Him being able to flawless a set in evo with that character 😭
Sonic we can all agree that you main the whole roster. That's how good you are
Damn I’m over here trying to figure out which comment triggered Sonic at 30:30
I don't think it was a specific comment, he was just sick of people trying to tell him where to put characters when 99% of them don't compete at the level he does. NRS community has a bad rap for being toxic about tiers.
When Robocop comes out you can give us your opinion 🙏🏻
I think he'll be bottom five
Shawn Johnson ur joking r u?
We don t know anything yet.
Shawn is just talking about his hopes becouse he is a meaningless human being
@@DavideScarsi sounds like ur a little butt hurt over a video game character
@@shawnjohnson242 actually I don t give a shit about Robocop.
I just like to point out when people like you have a statement about facts that comes out of nowhere
SonicFox*:sees subzero player*
Also SonicFox: ZEEEUUUSSSSS!! HAS THE GODS FORSAKEN ME!!!!
The fact you haven’t been banned from tournaments and given a job at NRS is amazing
TH-camr’s should leave the tier list characters to the pros like sonic
nothing wrong with personal lists. If you are a beginer then the list doesnt apply to you anyways and if you are good at the game youll know if a list is horse shit. I see no problem.
Other people not allowed to have an opinion?
No, if I want I wanna make a tier list, if I wanna rank shao Khan at S+ i will and if I wanna rank joker at D I will. Speaking he is a professional player and one of the best so his list would be unbelievably different to ours
@@TubTheGreat Yep , my thoughts exactly . As my comment above stated , the tier list sonic presented is only effective once you know what they know. People all too often take the lists as gospel but have no real idea why a character is placed there to begin with. If you dont know EXACTLY why a character is there then the list doesnt yet apply to you. On the other side of things these same players often dismiss the lists when a character they hate and want to see nerfed is placed on the lower end. I think its just a classic case of confimation bias.
BTheDrifter yup, besides I disagree so much with his tier list
"Even God's like me bleed" - Sonicfox 2020
If yall listened! He said its "HIS FINAL TIER LIST (BEFORE) AFTERMATH". Yall didn't listen!
They never do!! Or they'd be in the lab right now with their protective eyewear and gloves!!
I don't Play 11 but watched this entire video because there's a lot to love about one of the best breaking down any fighting game. Thanks for the Upload FOX!
When he said "yall are trash" actually humbled me so hard lmao. I was sitting there like "Sindel is not A tier, what are you smoking" then I realised I have never won of even attempt to win a major in my life and that I should shut up and let the professional talk.
Nah, ur right sindel isn’t A tier. This is for those major cups which isn’t right for everyone
@@TubTheGreat no she is dookie.
Just the way this man travels the settings menu is terrifying
0:25 Shao Kahn
0:48 Sub-Zero
17:07 Sindel
19:16 Scorpion
21:07 Skarlet
30:09 Kitana
30:22 Jade
31:25 Sonya
32:28 Spawn
33:07 Baraka
35:44 Erron Black
43:11 D'vorah
43:53 Jax
45:02 Kano
53:03 Kollector
53:50 Noob Saibot
54:09 Nightwolf
54:37 Raiden
56:29 Frost
57:22 Kabal
57:42 Shang Tsung & Kung Lao & Kotal Kahn
58:25 The Terminator
59:09 Cassie Cage
1:00:35 Geras
1:00:59 Johnny Cage
1:01:26 Jacqui Briggs
1:01:52 Cetrion
1:03:09 Joker & Liu Kang
I wonder if SonicFox will play in MK11 at EVO this year since it’s online. There’s probably going to be a ton of Sub-Zeros
Comments that did not age well
@@EudoAraujo Lol. I like that Sonic says because he played MK for so long that he wants to try other fighting games.
Sonicfox:puts sub at A tier
New players to mk11: impossible
Sub Zero Players: So tell me fox do you BLEED?
SonicFox:😨
I love how you changed your mind on Skarlet after showing how good she can be lol she my personal favorite.
Oops! Sonic is mad at my main, Kotal. Remember, the community begged for him to be buffed.
can't wait for the final final tier list when allll the dlc comes out, cause we gonna get a kombat pack 2
and possibly a KP3
Going to miss these tier list. Please keep doing these for further reference to tell me how shit I am at the game.
As a Raiden main, Raijin is good but what about his other 2 variations? I main Thunderwave and it has glaring issues. Mainly due to frames and hitbox issues. We won't bring up his 3rd. I hope they buff him in Aftermath.
Raiden TW main here too mate. Don't hold your hopes up mate. NRS hate Raiden and plan on getting rid of him. Mark my words
@@MysticShiv3r I wouldn't be surprised. This nigga Sonic don't help either. I can beat my trash friends with Raiden too. Does that mean I'm good or I'm good with a solid character? If the 99% weren't supporting this clown, he wouldn't have a career.
@@Chev_chevo One could argue SF is being paid or told by NRS that Raiden is S tier. Tin foily hat I know but think about it for a min. Why so much focus on Raijin?
His 6f reversal is not broken or busted like he states. Raijin is not a fix for all. Either way, our boi needs buffs and whilst I appreciate he is without question the GOAT in the fgc (certainly MK wise) his opinion is not gospel.
Regards TW, I too can beat ppl but when they realise the SC duck trick and his flawed hitboxes and a B12 that is fucking *-9* on block, your goosed.
Suffice to say, he has literally wrecked any chance of buffs. I think personally, it is deliberate.
Do the research and form your own conclusion.
Raiden is super fun to play I really hope he does get buffs. Shame that he probably won’t get them because people act like raijin is the only variation.
@@MysticShiv3r Honestly man, the longer Raiden goes without, the more idgaf. Just finding myself playing this game less and less (maybe once or twice a week). But we'll see if he gets buffed when Aftermath comes out...
It feels like he doesn't wanna hurt the character's feelings, witch is not a bad thing, I also think the balance work Netherelm's is doing is actually great, even if you compare it to other fighting games...
Except with Shao Khan, pliz get this man a buff
30:30 I come back to this video every now and again to remind myself that the MK community are actually spoiled children that would rather complain about characters and mechanics than figure out how to beat said characters and mechanics
what a time to be alive where the joker is actually good in a fighting game
sub zero in kustom variation : give him deep freeze, slide + any other thing. he is unstoppable
As a Raiden main, I feel very happy that I see Raiden at S or S- tier
In a previous tier list they said that Skarket is mad boring, in this one she’s mad fun.
I wonder what changed the opinion. I’ve mained her since the very first betas and I can see the argument for both.
She always bored me every time I picked her up.
I was wondering if I was the only one that caught that. Maybe since they found that oki she’s fun now
Skarlet is mad boring trash, she does not even have combos, just the same leg kicking into special move trash, or 212 212 leg kick tentacle trash. At full screen throw your shit. Damn boring character, just like most of the girls are khm cassie, khm jade....
Gábor Bozsó ok so your opinion is based on retards in kombat league. Good for you, you’ve scratched the surface. Lab shit and stop complaining lol.
@@BozsoGabor facts. Skarlet, Jade, and Cetrion are all projectile spam characters by design. Which is why I laughed at Dragon when he picked Cetrion and spammed his way to victory. Remember when he picked characters that required skill?
Fuck, this Skarlet bit taught me how wrong I was playing Skarlet. You mean I can do more than full-screen zone? I've got a whole new play style to learn now. Thank you!
0:50 as a complete noob not just to MK11, but to fighting games in general, can someone please explain how online play makes a difference? Like, why would subzero, or any kther character for that matter, play any better/worse online than offline?
Online has a little bit of frame differences / lag. It gives an advantage to people who can abuse that for their benefit.
Some moves are within a few frames to be unreadable, online lag basically makes them that way or reduces the timing down to a few frames which most people don’t have the reaction time to be able to block
@@IfWhatYes But that's the exact same netcode that NRS used for MKX and IJ2, and we all know how awesome the netcode is, and the thing that you mentioned about moves being unreadable wasn't the case for those games, I for one didn't notice anything between playing offline or online for MKX or IJ2, and now also for MK11.
Roy Arkon you cannot have 0ms lag in online play and the difference between certain moves is literally frames. It’s an issue in all fighting games
@@IfWhatYes Yes, but Sonic makes it sound like the difference is night and day. If the difference is indeed mere frames like you say, then it's really not big at all, for any of those games (MKX, IJ2 and MK11).
1:04:24 High Level Joker Guide by #1 Joker in the World.
Thanks Fox for the whole Tier List. Can't wait for Aftermath's one.
When you’re a shang tsung main waiting 57 min to learn his best strengths:
SonicFox: He’s here because he’s fucking stupid. Next. 😂
Don’t listen to the greatest player in the world 🥵
Take a little sip for every time he says "uuhh...".
Yeah, just a sip, and you gon' be on the hospital by 10 minutes of the video.
Kinda curious where you think the characters stand in DBFZ now
I'll be taking all this info into the lab. Good shit, Sonic
Wow.... I wanna know your buff list too. It would be cool to see your thoughts about the teir list for online as well.
chill guys. sonic said his final tier list before aftermath
Let's just hope scorpion & sub-zero shine again in MK12, the way they were in MKXL ❤️
Bad news buddy, they suck even harder in MK12
@@Sualpion bro shut up 💀
Thanks for uploading this!
Shao mains be like: Why are we here.. just to suffer..
@vZyqa yes raiden be on my ass sometimes too
vZyqa well all people do is back 4, down 1 then throw repeat
vZyqa well I get matched up with mashers online in KL. This is why WiFi shouldn’t exist.
I swear
THE BEST TO EVER DO IT CONGRATS HOMIE
I personally main joker and I believe the only time I have a hard match is against jade. if she puts her shield on your jack in the box moves won’t work and she can possibly out-zone you. This was a great tier list!
Sonic is crazy holy shit. This man got talent for Mk. He reacts to 3mix up with sub is ridiculous
Its offline... Online is a diff story
@@yopeepthestyle8308 Yeah😂😂 For Sonic to say he ducks Sub-Zeros online, the mix is definitely annoying
Chidubem Modilim dude its crazy. overhead into slide. overhead pause an into throw. overhead pause and reset to his back 2 low string. if you have a good sub who isnt obvious with A-B-C patterns (as many shockingly are) its impossible to read.
@@yopeepthestyle8308 I'm sorry for all the trauma that you have gone through 🙏🏾🥺
30:30 that was gold :D
Can we have an updated tier list?
15:10 for those who ever doubted that this man is a God
this tier list was mad stoopid
I wish you can acknowledge and give an up to date breakdown on why Shang Tsung is an S tier, and some tips please, he's my main.
No
@@nicholastart8147 Lol I've always found weird miserable people like this amusing.
@@davidmace4353 He's a shang Tsung main.
Shang Tsung: I find your lack of skill amusing
@@nicholastart8147 Damn that'd be hilarious if I were talking about him too wouldn't it?
@@davidmace4353 lmaooo
1:05 that's actually quite hilarious I'm glad to see that from my favorite character
This guy is desperate for Liu Kang to get a nerf😂😂😂
To he honest, he has some of the easiest KBs tho and some of the best damage.
Very easy
Once you've acquired enough rep, a Tekken 7 tier list would slap...
30:00 he disses viewers so hard lol
Lmao he’s not wrong
Literally came back to hear "even Gods like me bleed" 😂😂🤟🏽
man, I just wanna run sets forever with you. The DE squad had been lackin on me
I didnt know THE SonicFox had a TH-cam Channel
This a great definitive tier list as of now! That’s coming for a Fan Fare Kitana main. The characters in -S and below are just characters that struggle more than others because there really under developed. Good job Sonic and do you have any tips for being a better Kitana player!
The only thing that's holding Joker back, is he doesn't have Aresene
If he had Rebel’s guard, then he could easily be top tier.
Joker is amazing. I suggest to try him out if you’re a Kotal main like i used to be.
Please do more character tutorials. Your incite into the game is priceless. Please forgive help us get out of 99% that suck gang.
Can you add the rest of the DLC characters that came out? Where would you thank them?
Chat exploded after sindel bottom 5
I'm a Frost main lol, glad you recognize her for being S!
Wait a minute. A balance patch isn't coming with the new expansion?
Yes there will, if not NRS is stupid. Just cuz sonic said final tier list doesn’t mean the game is done. His word isn’t law. He’ll make more tier lists too I’d bet, unless he thinks the next patch will make everyone so balanced there will be no point in tier lists. Maybe that’s why he said final tier list
Micah Hendricks right I looked at the title and was like.... why? A big balance patch can change everything
In the beginning he says that this is pre aftermath release so obviously this isn't the final one.
George Lazar oooh
I love your videos man, your the best jeje
This guy is super hard to like but he's good at the game 🤷♂️
The amount of time and studying is why your so good