A nicely done presentation. There is another way to avoid using an electronic crossover when you mix and match amplifiers. Make sure at least one of your amplifiers has an adjustable gain. Not all amplifiers have this feature, however. Parasound builds in this feature on many of their amps, for example.
I like the idea! Would like to see a smaller less power versions of the MC901 for those of us that aren't running 500w and up speakers. Examples- 450w SS and 225w tube, 300w SS and 150w tube.
I just saw a guy with his DIY 4 way horn towers each with a 36 watt 845 tube amp, plus a pair of DIY subs powered by a pair of Crown HD5000 each bridged mono on Steve Guttenberg's channel. In my experience tube power ratings can be considered at least 3 times if not 5 times the power respective to typical class AB or D solid state specifically on bass guitar amps.
As Leonard Nemoy's most famous character might say "Fascinating." When you biamp/biwire a single speaker with the double set of posts. does it by-pass the internal crossover? If not and you have the frequency set exactly, wouldn't that double the crossover slopes and mess up the interaction of the two separated drivers?
Very cool, not a hope in hell these are gonna see the inside of my house anytime soon, but I'll favourite the video just in case the lotto comes through. C'mon lotto, daddy needs a new amp!!!!
Hi fellas...I just purchased the MAC 7200 and using the Legacy Audio floor standing speakers and have a few questions if you don't mind-first of all do you know (or recommend) if I can/should consider bi-amping the 7200 perhaps using tube amps and secondly what do you think of pairing the system with two REL S/812s? Thanks.
@@adrianlow2114 There are a number of reasonably priced, efficient speakers that are very efficient. I have an open baffle, 15 inch full range speaker that works and sounds awesome. It is 97 db efficient and I drive it with a 2 watt, high quality amp. It is much better sounding than the electostatic speakers I used to have.
My preference is to have a nice Tube preamp, and use a nice SS amplifier. PS Audio BHK for the high end, or even a pair of Schitt Vidars as Monoblocks.
Yeah you're wrong concerning the miss-match. Depending upon where that crossover is that tube amp will quadruple or even MORE of it's rated power due to all lower frequencies eliminated from it's work load. Each time frequency is halved while volume remains the same the power requirement goes up by 4. Hence with a crossover say around 350hz that 75 watt tube amp suddenly becomes a 300 watt amp. Suggest you study this some: sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm : That aside even if this were not true that 75 watts is still plenty of power for the midrange and highs.
@@adrianlow2114 No what you said is not wrong but you are only talking electrically and leaving out acoustics part of it. A lower impedance places more demands on the amp and yes draws more current. If one has some low efficiency 2 ohm midrange drivers yes those will draw more power to drive. My statement is more of an all things being equal statement. That link I provide will show what I'm trying to say if you go read it. I also have books here at home on this. Each time a given frequency is halved in order to play at the same volume cone excursion goes up by FOUR. (yes four not two) This is one reason woofers need to be larger. Power requirements as we go down into the low bass goes up (by a lot) and like wise as we go up into the midrange and highs the power requirements go way way down. Trust me that 75 watt mc275 would be more than enough power for most speakers but if the crossover is say around 350 - 400 hz and up probably not only has power requirements dropped by magnitudes (remember the cone doesn't have to be pushed as far) but the amp itself having all the work below 400hz removed suddenly becomes much more powerful because higher frequencies are not having to ride on top of lower frequencies. Really the impedance factor you brought up is a different issue and nothing to do with this.
Arian sorry I'd like to explain better but have to go to work. The thing is it isn't just electrical like you said. Mechanics of the woofer come into play and other things. It takes more power to push a woofer further as frequencies go down. Also the midrange amp ACTS like a much more powerful amplifier now not having to do the lower frequencies because all higher frequencies ride on top of lower frequencies hence limiting power to what ever the demand of the lower frequency signal is. Please follow the link I provided in my first reply.
@@adrianlow2114 I don't know if you can run across it anymore but I just picked up a book off my bookshelf: "How to Build Speaker Enclosures" by Alexis Badmaieff & Don Davis. Copyright 1966 so I'm showing my age here. This book has a section on power and cone motion with frequency which is where I get some of this. They wrote this a long time ago but still not wrong.
How is the mc611 driving your stella? I opted for a different choice, i am having the focal maestro driving it wirh the dagostino progression and i got the 2 focal evo subs which are the one used in stella.
Tubes are not "better" at high frequencies, mathematically they are "worse" all around. However that's math, listening preference critically important and another completely different issue. Though I don't own a tube amplifier I also love the tube sound. The most used adjective to describe it is "warm". Voices, in particular, are more mellow and less strident. Another inherent characteristic of tubes is low power, though they can do transients very quickly the dynamic range if those is limited, that's why their low frequency accuracy suffers. This frankly ridiculous Mc Intosh amp (which I'm also smitten with!) aims to provide an amp that can still provide the signature tube sound so enjoyed by many an audio fan, while still providing extraordinarily good bass performance. Its most definitely a
Bi-Amping does nothing for home applications. I’ve conducted hundreds of blindfold ABX tests and nobody can hear differences between tubes, solid state, bi amping, and tri-amping. This is marketing, audiophoolery.
Yeah...I feel for ya' man. I bought a new chainsaw and mine went bonkers. Guess she couldn't understand the necessity of limbing old trees that had already damaged her car to the tune of $1500.00. Oh...and if you want stereo...you'll hafta' buy TWO of those amps at $17,500 = $35,000 Ooohh...gotsta' win me a lottery.
I really appreciate your channel. IMO Those emblems McIntosh attaches to the side of their products look ridiculous. They look dated and cheap like something that be attached to the side of a front fender of a 70's early 80's era van. I like the MA352 for instance, but I'm hung up on the cost, $6,500. For that money I wish the side emblem could be optional, I'd delete it. I also wish the chassis was machined out of a block of a sold aluminum instead of what appears to be bent metal which creates plenty gaps that are quite visible. I fully understand the sound quality is excellent and McIntosh products last the lifetime of the listener and some, also the resell value, but I wish the fit and finish of some of their products better reflected the price. I'm still going to check out the MA352, but what I just shared is definitely in the back of my mind. Anyone else having any thoughts? Agree or disagree?
I would agree with you. For that kind of money, I would expect uni-block construction as well as point to point wiring for much of the internals. I was looking at the Pathos Logos amp for 5K which looks to be better build quality as well as has point to point wiring and larger capacitors. My problem is that they are based out of Italy so good luck with reasonable service if you need it. At least McIntosh is American and has a great reliability record, stands behind their products, and would seem to be fairly easy to service.
I know bi-amp wiring speakers are the desired format today but I'll be quite honest. It's not a new format and has been around for years. Unless my ears have become jaded, for the life of me I cannot hear any remarkable or legitimate difference in listening or reason for bi-amp wiring to justify the extra cost. I'll strap the extra terminals and enjoy the speakers in the common 2-pole-2-terminal common standard.
Bi amp is nothing new or unique.Your movie theater does it-for each of the stage speaker systems behind the screen.My mother used to have a Magnavox Concert Grand Hi-Fi console that used biamps.Each power amp used 2 6V6 for the tweeter and 4 for the woofer.15" cast frame woofers horn tweeters.The set sounded wonderful esp when CD's were played thru it.So wanted to connect a magnetic cartridge TT into it thru a preamp.For the theaters Altec VOTTS or JBL systems now QSC.Large theater screens had amp rooms on each side of the screen-crossovers and processors in the projection room.Still done today-digital projectors instead of film ones.The McIntosh amp sounds interesting-price---Have to win the lottery or grow a money tree and get a forklift to move those amps!And you will likely need a 20A 120V circuit to run each one!900W total.
Just one of these monsters costs more than an entire Kii Three system, which includes six high-power/low-distortion amplifiers per room-adaptive speaker plus a world-class DAC and control unit. I'm all for "high-end" gear if you have the budget for it, but this is clearly an insane purchase, even for a millionaire.
$35,000 U.S., drop in the bucket for a millionaire. They wouldn't bother with these, they already spent over $350,000 U.S. on McIntosh's 1200watt mono blocks and McIntosh's top speakers. You have a very hard time imagining what it's like to have millions of "dollars" don't you.
@@Mark-lq3sb -- Millionaires don't get that rich by throwing away $$$. Maybe the silver spoon types do that, but not the folks who worked their way up who I've met. Moreover, the Kii Thee will outperform any all-McIntosh system -- but of course if you look at Mac stuff as an investment, it does tend to appreciate and lasts forever if you take care of it, so if performance is secondary to resale value and status/prestige I see your point.
I do agree with you, I will never afford anything close to what this equipment costs, or even a Kii Three system for that matter. However in the ultra high-end world, these amps are actually a bargain... I know that sounds crazy, but you can spend $250,000 and more on a pair of monoblocks. I am curious to see how they perform, because honestly this is a really good idea that Mcintosh came up with.
@@chadisrc -- My hope is that some time before I die (I'm 72) lower-cost implementations of the Kii Three's innovations will show up, e.g. something less lavishly appointed, with PBTL-configured TPA3255 amplification instead of pricey NCore modules and analog-only inputs would be fine with me.
@@TheMrgonzalo05 I have an old Mc amp. I should sell it on given that it has been surpassed. But, God, sometimes I just sit there with it on as it's just such a thing to look at. lol
A nicely done presentation. There is another way to avoid using an electronic crossover when you mix and match amplifiers. Make sure at least one of your amplifiers has an adjustable gain. Not all amplifiers have this feature, however. Parasound builds in this feature on many of their amps, for example.
I like the idea! Would like to see a smaller less power versions of the MC901 for those of us that aren't running 500w and up speakers. Examples- 450w SS and 225w tube, 300w SS and 150w tube.
Your dream has come true with the new model
@@sheldonunrau8818 I guess you are referring to the MC451?
With the integrated crossover controls, does that mean you do not need the crossover in the speaker?
I just saw a guy with his DIY 4 way horn towers each with a 36 watt 845 tube amp, plus a pair of DIY subs powered by a pair of Crown HD5000 each bridged mono on Steve Guttenberg's channel. In my experience tube power ratings can be considered at least 3 times if not 5 times the power respective to typical class AB or D solid state specifically on bass guitar amps.
Great and detail explanation. Thank you
Cool idea from McIntosh. Do they take complements as payment? 😉
Is there any other McIntosh Amplifiers that comparable to Mc901 without the bulkiness and not sacrificing the sound quality
Hi the instructions shows the bass wires goes to 4 ohms solid state and treble wires goes to 8 ohms tubes is that the way? Mine I put both on 8 thanks
As long as you use ampliefiers that have the same (level gain Input output) , So you don't have phasing problems 😆 great job !
Hope that McIntosh will have a working demo of this amp - matched to a worthy speaker - this coming 2020 CES in Las Vegas.🤔
As Leonard Nemoy's most famous character might say "Fascinating." When you biamp/biwire a single speaker with the double set of posts. does it by-pass the internal crossover? If not and you have the frequency set exactly, wouldn't that double the crossover slopes and mess up the interaction of the two separated drivers?
I have a question, if I have 2 pairs of speakers and I get these monos, how would I set both of them up in the C1100?
Very cool, not a hope in hell these are gonna see the inside of my house anytime soon, but I'll favourite the video just in case the lotto comes through. C'mon lotto, daddy needs a new amp!!!!
It is on my wish list
Hi fellas...I just purchased the MAC 7200 and using the Legacy Audio floor standing speakers and have a few questions if you don't mind-first of all do you know (or recommend) if I can/should consider bi-amping the 7200 perhaps using tube amps and secondly what do you think of pairing the system with two REL S/812s? Thanks.
Wouldn't it make more sense to build around very efficient speakers and avoid the megabuck amplifiers?
@@adrianlow2114 There are a number of reasonably priced, efficient speakers that are very efficient. I have an open baffle, 15 inch full range speaker that works and sounds awesome. It is 97 db efficient and I drive it with a 2 watt, high quality amp. It is much better sounding than the electostatic speakers I used to have.
Art Anderson I’ve been looking for a suitable open baffle speaker to replace my decades old mirage m3s. What open baffle speaker do you have? Thanks.
@@Scottlp2
It is the Caintuck Audio Li15 speakers.
www.caintuckaudio.com/Lii_15.html.
Adrian Low thanks Art and Adrian
very interesting ! and it's my strugle wright now lol I have a audio research d100b . with what can I match it to bi amp ? (tube)
Fantastic job again from the McIntosh!! $ 17.500 each of them or a pair ? Canadian retail price? I'm Canadian , long time Canuck Audio member
each
My preference is to have a nice Tube preamp, and use a nice SS amplifier. PS Audio BHK for the high end, or even a pair of Schitt Vidars as Monoblocks.
Yeah you're wrong concerning the miss-match. Depending upon where that crossover is that tube amp will quadruple or even MORE of it's rated power due to all lower frequencies eliminated from it's work load. Each time frequency is halved while volume remains the same the power requirement goes up by 4. Hence with a crossover say around 350hz that 75 watt tube amp suddenly becomes a 300 watt amp. Suggest you study this some: sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm : That aside even if this were not true that 75 watts is still plenty of power for the midrange and highs.
@@adrianlow2114 No what you said is not wrong but you are only talking electrically and leaving out acoustics part of it. A lower impedance places more demands on the amp and yes draws more current. If one has some low efficiency 2 ohm midrange drivers yes those will draw more power to drive. My statement is more of an all things being equal statement. That link I provide will show what I'm trying to say if you go read it. I also have books here at home on this.
Each time a given frequency is halved in order to play at the same volume cone excursion goes up by FOUR. (yes four not two) This is one reason woofers need to be larger. Power requirements as we go down into the low bass goes up (by a lot) and like wise as we go up into the midrange and highs the power requirements go way way down. Trust me that 75 watt mc275 would be more than enough power for most speakers but if the crossover is say around 350 - 400 hz and up probably not only has power requirements dropped by magnitudes (remember the cone doesn't have to be pushed as far) but the amp itself having all the work below 400hz removed suddenly becomes much more powerful because higher frequencies are not having to ride on top of lower frequencies. Really the impedance factor you brought up is a different issue and nothing to do with this.
Arian sorry I'd like to explain better but have to go to work. The thing is it isn't just electrical like you said. Mechanics of the woofer come into play and other things. It takes more power to push a woofer further as frequencies go down. Also the midrange amp ACTS like a much more powerful amplifier now not having to do the lower frequencies because all higher frequencies ride on top of lower frequencies hence limiting power to what ever the demand of the lower frequency signal is. Please follow the link I provided in my first reply.
@@adrianlow2114 I don't know if you can run across it anymore but I just picked up a book off my bookshelf: "How to Build Speaker Enclosures" by Alexis Badmaieff & Don Davis. Copyright 1966 so I'm showing my age here.
This book has a section on power and cone motion with frequency which is where I get some of this. They wrote this a long time ago but still not wrong.
How would they work with Focal Stella Utopia’s? Currently using MC611 mono’s.
How is the mc611 driving your stella?
I opted for a different choice, i am having the focal maestro driving it wirh the dagostino progression and i got the 2 focal evo subs which are the one used in stella.
nezar le pro The MC 611s work wonderfully. Just interested in improving mid range and highs if possible.
Tubes are not "better" at high frequencies, mathematically they are "worse" all around. However that's math, listening preference critically important and another completely different issue. Though I don't own a tube amplifier I also love the tube sound. The most used adjective to describe it is "warm". Voices, in particular, are more mellow and less strident. Another inherent characteristic of tubes is low power, though they can do transients very quickly the dynamic range if those is limited, that's why their low frequency accuracy suffers. This frankly ridiculous Mc Intosh amp (which I'm also smitten with!) aims to provide an amp that can still provide the signature tube sound so enjoyed by many an audio fan, while still providing extraordinarily good bass performance. Its most definitely a
Bi-Amping does nothing for home applications. I’ve conducted hundreds of blindfold ABX tests and nobody can hear differences between tubes, solid state, bi amping, and tri-amping. This is marketing, audiophoolery.
Tube amp i do hear it is warmer
And round
$17,500 don't think the ole lady will go for it. Getting dirty looks from her already. Lol
Yeah...I feel for ya' man.
I bought a new chainsaw and mine went bonkers.
Guess she couldn't understand the necessity of limbing old trees that had already damaged her car to the tune of $1500.00.
Oh...and if you want stereo...you'll hafta' buy TWO of those amps at $17,500 = $35,000
Ooohh...gotsta' win me a lottery.
In fact no, its 35000 since you need 2!!!!!
@@Wised1000 Didn't I just say that?
@@Ian-iu2tl 🤣🤣🤣
I really appreciate your channel. IMO Those emblems McIntosh attaches to the side of their products look ridiculous. They look dated and cheap like something that be attached to the side of a front fender of a 70's early 80's era van. I like the MA352 for instance, but I'm hung up on the cost, $6,500. For that money I wish the side emblem could be optional, I'd delete it. I also wish the chassis was machined out of a block of a sold aluminum instead of what appears to be bent metal which creates plenty gaps that are quite visible. I fully understand the sound quality is excellent and McIntosh products last the lifetime of the listener and some, also the resell value, but I wish the fit and finish of some of their products better reflected the price. I'm still going to check out the MA352, but what I just shared is definitely in the back of my mind. Anyone else having any thoughts? Agree or disagree?
I would agree with you. For that kind of money, I would expect uni-block construction as well as point to point wiring for much of the internals. I was looking at the Pathos Logos amp for 5K which looks to be better build quality as well as has point to point wiring and larger capacitors. My problem is that they are based out of Italy so good luck with reasonable service if you need it. At least McIntosh is American and has a great reliability record, stands behind their products, and would seem to be fairly easy to service.
I remember when I got a MC 275 at a garage sale for $60. 2nd best deal in audio I ever got.
Rogue Pharoh integrated amp is excellent, it's 3500 USD build like tank, awesome sounding amp comparing to MA352
@@babydove
I also looked at Rogue, my only concern is resale value. Will continue to consider. Thanks!
BTW I wonder how many of these will sell given the present economic meltdown, maybe if you could connect a respirator hose somewhere......
If you can afford $35,000 for a pair of mono block the cost of tubes is the least of your worries.
I know bi-amp wiring speakers are the desired format today but I'll be quite honest. It's not a new format and has been around for years. Unless my ears have become jaded, for the life of me I cannot hear any remarkable or legitimate difference in listening or reason for bi-amp wiring to justify the extra cost. I'll strap the extra terminals and enjoy the speakers in the common 2-pole-2-terminal common standard.
Bi amp is nothing new or unique.Your movie theater does it-for each of the stage speaker systems behind the screen.My mother used to have a Magnavox Concert Grand Hi-Fi console that used biamps.Each power amp used 2 6V6 for the tweeter and 4 for the woofer.15" cast frame woofers horn tweeters.The set sounded wonderful esp when CD's were played thru it.So wanted to connect a magnetic cartridge TT into it thru a preamp.For the theaters Altec VOTTS or JBL systems now QSC.Large theater screens had amp rooms on each side of the screen-crossovers and processors in the projection room.Still done today-digital projectors instead of film ones.The McIntosh amp sounds interesting-price---Have to win the lottery or grow a money tree and get a forklift to move those amps!And you will likely need a 20A 120V circuit to run each one!900W total.
Just one of these monsters costs more than an entire Kii Three system, which includes six high-power/low-distortion amplifiers per room-adaptive speaker plus a world-class DAC and control unit. I'm all for "high-end" gear if you have the budget for it, but this is clearly an insane purchase, even for a millionaire.
$35,000 U.S., drop in the bucket for a millionaire. They wouldn't bother with these, they already spent over $350,000 U.S. on McIntosh's 1200watt mono blocks and McIntosh's top speakers. You have a very hard time imagining what it's like to have millions of "dollars" don't you.
@@Mark-lq3sb -- Millionaires don't get that rich by throwing away $$$. Maybe the silver spoon types do that, but not the folks who worked their way up who I've met. Moreover, the Kii Thee will outperform any all-McIntosh system -- but of course if you look at Mac stuff as an investment, it does tend to appreciate and lasts forever if you take care of it, so if performance is secondary to resale value and status/prestige I see your point.
I do agree with you, I will never afford anything close to what this equipment costs, or even a Kii Three system for that matter. However in the ultra high-end world, these amps are actually a bargain... I know that sounds crazy, but you can spend $250,000 and more on a pair of monoblocks. I am curious to see how they perform, because honestly this is a really good idea that Mcintosh came up with.
@@chadisrc -- My hope is that some time before I die (I'm 72) lower-cost implementations of the Kii Three's innovations will show up, e.g. something less lavishly appointed, with PBTL-configured TPA3255 amplification instead of pricey NCore modules and analog-only inputs would be fine with me.
@@editorjuno A super headphone setup can be pretty great for sub 10k. Look into 'ear speakers' like the Raal SR1A
So ... What’s unique about the new MC901? .... you’ll have to watch two thirds of the video before you find out.... Misleading...
Misleading? Buddy, you've been involved in too many crash tests.
McIntosh meters,,,,,,,half the reason you buy Mc's. lol
That's my favorite type of night lights.
@@TheMrgonzalo05 I have an old Mc amp. I should sell it on given that it has been surpassed. But, God, sometimes I just sit there with it on as it's just such a thing to look at. lol