This sounded weird to me at first but then I remember that my native language has a suffix that means something like "you should already know that" or "I shouldn't need to say this"
Sounds like how the Swedish word "ju" works. It's really dang hard to explain as a native speaker, because it can be used in so many different ways depending on context, but it always relates to some obvious or presumed common knowledge.
@@leem4386 Wow, what are the odds of that? Yeah he's a time traveller in an agency that tries to protect history, it's a pretty good book although a bit confusing
With how misinformation spreads in the modern era and how people misunderstand what science, facts, and evidence are, I think we would all gain something from using evidentiality.
I have been watching conlang videos for years. I started with artefexian, watched some conlang critic, the xidnaf, and then I found you, honestly not sure how I didnt find you earlier. I made a "Conlang" a while ago, but it ended up just another english spelling reform, though I still use it just for the aesthetic. I made a few scripts I still love and use, but I am now making a conlang for a school project that I could choose. Thank you to you all, you gave me a target for a minor, (Linguistics!) I am going to major in mathematics though. (Still a HS sophomore)
miş is used with other tenses too. geliyormuş= (i heard that) he is coming gelecekmiş =(i heard that) he will come gelmişti =(i heard that) he had come geldiydi= (i saw that ) he had come gelirmiş=(i heard that) he comes ---- Dır/tir suffix can be used to make guess. For example, John nerededir? = what do you guess about where john is? yoldadır = i guess he is on way. Geliyordur = i guess he is coming. Turkish also uses miş with “tir” to make guess about what may have happened in past. They do not know what happened but only guess. For example. Gelmiştir. = i guess he came./i guess he has come -- Combination with past and past gittiydi =( i saw ) he had gone. Tom gelmeden, john gittiydi.= john had god before Tom came. (I was at home when john went. So i saw that john went.I also saw that Tom came later) -- Combination with miş and past. gitmişti = (i heard/realized later) he had gone., (I was not at home when he went. But when i m back to home, i realized that he is not home. ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş) 1-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor) yormuş *if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it. 2- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür) armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş *if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it. armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş 3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak) ecekmiş, acakmış *if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it. ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış 4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş) mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş (this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
Those topics are covered in Syntax and Grammatical Evolutions respectively in his “How to make a Conlang” series. Head-marking I don’t see much he can add, and I guess he could elaborate on polypersonal agreement but those videos cover them pretty well.
In Italian we can use the future tense to express a kind of dubitative form, so for example if someone asks you where Paul is, you could answer "sarà a scuola" (lit. "he will be at school") if you're not sure
One of my conlangs only marks evidentiality in the future tense, because when future vision is common, it's useful to know whether someone assumes something will happen from context, plans to make it happen, or saw that it will happen.
In Bulgarian you can hear the sentence "Бил съм се бил напил и съм се бил сбил." with some regularity. The proper translation would be "Evidently I've gotten drunk even though I don't remember it and they say I've gotten in a fight."
In German, modal verbs double up as evidentiality markers. "Werden" can be used for inferential evidence, and "sollen" for hearsay. This is often overlooked in grammars of German, as "werden" is usually seen as the future auxiliary (which it isn't; German doesn't have a proper future tense).
@@blauesserpiroyal2887 Basically, any statement about the future can be expressed using the present tense: Im kommenden Jahr finden die Wahlen zum US-Präsidenten statt. Wenn ich mein Studium abgeschlossen habe, gehe ich ins Ausland. The modal verb "werden" conveys a degree of uncertainty. Naturally, it's frequently used to describe future events, since the future is by definition uncertain. Compare the sentences "Morgen wird es regnen" vs "Morgen regnet es". The latter sounds more assertive. I feel like you would use the former most of the time, since you can never know for sure whether it will rain tomorrow. Similarly with the above example: if you would say "...werde ich in Ausland gehen", it would sound more like you're expressing your intention; with the present, it sounds like it's a fixed plan.
I looked into evidentiality recently, and no language can exist without it at all. Just because a language doesn't have markings and/or whatnot for evidentials doesn't mean it doesn't have evidentials at all.
Thanks, literally the only video I could find explaining evidentiality in Bulgarian! Which was what I needed. The other stuff was interesting as well. ;)
Huh strange I'm a native lithuanian speaker but I never heard the phrase 'jo rašoma laiškas' anywhere... Idk I feel like the more common version would be 'jo rašomas laiškas'
What a masterfully put-together lesson, complete with examples and everything. Your channel introduced me to Guy Deutscher's Unfolding of Language, which then prompted me to read Through the Language Glass, where I imagine you got some of the introduction from. ;-) These videos are an invaluable contribution to Linguistics, and I'd just like to thank you for making TH-cam a better, more rich platform. Looking forward to seeing you tackle more subjects in the future. Cheers!! PS: Not sure if you've addressed this previously, but I'd like to know where you get the info from─some of these languages are pretty obscure (Tsafiki, Tariana, etc.), so sources on where I'd be able to read more would be awfully appreciated.
my language handles evidentiality and mirarity with particles, which came not from words, but from interjections, even tho it’s optional dow: rumored facts “dow adubike ne.” (They say that it’s raining.) woho: obvious facts “woho adubike ne.” (Of course it’s raining, duh) pwe: unexpected facts “pwe adubike ne.” (Apparently it’s raining.) ga: intense emotion “adubike ne ga!” (Wow, it’s raining!) um: possible facts “um adubike ne” (Maybe it’s raining.)
Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş) 1- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş) mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş (this tense means you do not believe the reported thing) I have heard that He came = Gelmiş I have heard that He came But I do not believe it = Gelmişmiş 2-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor) yormuş I have heard that he is coming= geliyormuş *if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it. I have heard that he is coming but i do not believe it = geliyormuşmuş. 3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (r,ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür) armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş I have heard that he used to get up early= Erken kalkarmış *if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it. armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş I have heard that he used to get up early but I do not believe it= Erken kalkarmışmış 4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak) ecekmiş, acakmış Gelecekmiş = I have heard that he will come *if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it. ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış Gelecekmişmiş = I have heard that he will come but I do not believe it.
@@PimsleurTurkishLessons aslında düşününce o kadar da yanlış değildi, -mışmış diyen biri kendisine denilenden şüphe ediyordur, değil mi? Ayrıca, yazında eksik bir kullanım daha var bence; bir kişi ona, o da bize söylemişse de ek tekrarlanabilir
@@Osz6 5:30'da miş anlamının geçmiş zaman anlamına geldiğini söylüyor. tamam miş tek başına kullanıldığında o anlama gelebilir de, zamandan bağımsız sadece "duyma, sonradan öğrenme" anlamına da geliyor. mesela "gelecekmiş = i have heard that she s going to come., gelirmiş gibi. buralarda miş en sonda. fakat mişti derken miş önce ti sonra. çünkü onun gitmiş olduğunu o giderken görmedin. o kısım mişli. fakat sonradan onun orada olmadığını gözünle gördün o kısım görülen geçmiş zaman eki "ti". mesela eve geldin evin soyulduğunu farkettin. bunu arkadaşına anlatıyorsun. o da diyor ki hırsızı yakalayabildin mi sen de diyorsun ki, hayır ben geldiğimde o çoktan gitmişti. - bir de dıydı, tıydı zaman var. geçmişin geçmişi. mesela sen bir düğündesin, nikah kıyıldı nikah memuru ayrıldı. bunları gördün. sonra birisi düğüne geç geldi, sana nikah memurunun nerede olduğunu sordu. sen de ona dedin ki, " sen gelmeden o gittiydi." onun gelmesi geçmiş zaman, memurun gitmesi geçmiş zamandan önceki bir geçmiş zamanda gerçekleşti. sen bunların her birini gördün. hem memurun gittiğini hem de birinin düğüne geç geldiğini gördün." ikisini de görülen geçmiş zamanla söylersin.
@@PimsleurTurkishLessons anladım fakat video'da öyle bir kullanımı olmadığını söylemiyor, ekin tek başına hem geçmiş zamanı hem de eki kullananın olaya şahit olmadığını belirtiğini, düz geçmiş zaman ekiyle kullanıldığında öncesinin öncesinden bahsedilğini anlatıyor . Yani ekin tüm özelliklerinden bahsetmek istememiş olabilir çünkü video kendi dillerini yaratmak isteyen insanlar için çeşitli doğal dillerdeki çeşitli örnekleri sunuyor, eminim video içinde türkçeden yeterince örnek verdiği/vereceği için daha detaylı anlatmamıştır :D
This video has prompted me to reconsider the evidential patterns in my conlang Siye. The suffix -yosa- + irrealis mood + positive polarity means "supposedly" - it's a semantic Dubitative that emerged from a grammatical Indirect via extreme cynicism. Its counterpart (currently labeled Energetic "certainly"), -yosa- + irrealis mood + negative polarity, indicates the speaker's Direct evidence, but due to its derivation as a negative of the Indirect, nonetheless takes irrealis mood.
In one of my conlangs there is an evidential that I call the "orthogrative" that conveys that the speaker read about the information or got it from some form of text. Would like to know people's thoughts on this.
Basically I would translate it as "I read that" or something to that effect. So a sentence might be translated as "(I read that) your father went to jail" P.S: For those curious the conlang translation is "Selora beno gazhu po vilintacho". Literally, "go-past.perf.-orth. father-sing.-nom. you-sing.-gen. def-sing-article prison-sing.-all" Se= "to go" "-l" = past perfective "-ora" = orthogrative Beno= "father/dad" Ga= 2nd person singular pronoun "-zhu" = genitive Po= singular definite article Vilinta= "jail/prison" "-cho" = allative
Hey, love your videos! Do you think you could give any adivce on constructing languages from currently existing ones? Specifically, I'm thinking about constructing a language for a post-apocalyptic worldbuilding... thing, based on two languages I know (to some extent). Because I'm a boring European, that'll just end up being a boring Indo-European something, at most with some Hungarian, Turkish, and/or Arab admixture, but still, do you have any advice at all? (I'm not expecting you to make a whole video about it, any advice at all in written form would suffice)
Can you do a video that explores how adverbs come about? And how would one restructure (or reorder) the words of one language into a different language - let's say how would one translated a SVO sentence into an OSV or a VOS sentence, and how does one distinguish from direct object and indirect object?
actually tamil also has a "it seems that" distinction in evidentiality ! example - he ate - saptaan apparently he ate - saptaan-aam (in written and colloqial) / saaptaan-aamaa (in colloqial only) it seems that he ate - saptaan-pozhirku (in colloqial and written) / saptaan-aatirku (in colloqial only)
On a flip-S conlang (I guess they're called as that, but I mean those languages which change the subject of an intransitive verb from the Agent to the Patient to mark involuntary and voluntary if it's the reverse), could it be possible to evolve the pacient pronouns and now they mark a "non-firsthand", plus the person? At least the conjugated forms of them, and later transitive verbs take those "Pacient Conjugation" (If they mark the Agent) as the evidential one. Ithoug this because of the 6:36 minute, when you said that "(Apparently) I've arrived" it's used like involuntary mark. I'm just doing the reverse of this and with all pronouns. Later of this, because the conjugated system is which has changed, the pronouns just keep their job as pronouns.
So, you probably are already doing this, but could it be possible to make more videos like this? Just certain terms to help understanding how languages work, since I am working on a conling via your videos, but am kinda stuck on some of the forms like causative and so on...
miş is used with other tenses too. geliyormuş= (i heard that) he is coming gelecekmiş =(i heard that) he will come gelmişti =(i heard that) he had come geldiydi= (i saw that ) he had come gelirmiş=(i heard that) he comes ---- Dır/tir suffix can be used to make guess. For example, John nerededir? = what do you guess about where john is? yoldadır = i guess he is on way. Geliyordur = i guess he is coming. Turkish also uses miş with “tir” to make guess about what may have happened in past. They do not know what happened but only guess. For example. Gelmiştir. = i guess he came./i guess he has come -- Combination with past and past gittiydi =( i saw ) he had gone. Tom gelmeden, john gittiydi.= john had god before Tom came. (I was at home when john went. So i saw that john went.I also saw that Tom came later) -- Combination with miş and past. gitmişti = (i heard/realized later) he had gone., (I was not at home when he went. But when i m back to home, i realized that he is not home. ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş) 1-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor) yormuş *if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it. 2- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür) armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş *if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it. armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş 3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak) ecekmiş, acakmış *if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it. ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış 4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş) mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş (this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
Idea - you could use voice to convey evidentiality. For example, 'He broke the lamp' suggests certainty, 'the lamp was broken by him' could suggest inference. Add irrealis mood to that and you already have four different evidentiality registers! Anything that legitimizes the passive voice is going to get my approval
My friend and fellow scholar, if only you would reveal your name and your sources! Than I could use this presentation and cite it in my Master's-level course project. Lots of really great information here, both for boots-on-the-ground linguists and conlangers.
What if you’re commanding someone, or saying what will happen because you’re going to make it happen? Do they get their own evidential markers, or should they be left unmarked.
In Bulgarian we have thus funny tongue twister "Bil sum se bil napil i sum se bil bil" (I had gotten drunk and fought + doubt), where the word "bil" is used both to apply the doubt (to both having gotten drunk and having fought) ("bil" 2 and 3)AND to apply past perfect to the verb "to get drunk" ("bil 1") AND as a plain verb "to fight" (bil 4).
Individual affixes for evidentiality always seem over-complicated and weirdly specific until you try to pin an exact definition on the words we use in English. What's the difference between 'allegedly' and 'apparently'? How much overlap is there?
@@nexusanphans3813 no the desire is purely selfish and I understand that, I literally only want it so I don't have to keep clarifying my niche philosophical views on epistimology lol
@@_pink_clovers Just use adverbs a lot. I use 'apparently' way too much but I'm pretty sure marking evidentiality a lot is allowed in English it's just not mandatory and grammaticalised. Be the change you want to see in the language lol.
miş is used with other tenses too. geliyormuş= (i heard that) he is coming gelecekmiş =(i heard that) he will come gelmişti =(i heard that) he had come geldiydi= (i saw that ) he had come gelirmiş=(i heard that) he comes ---- Dır/tir suffix can be used to make guess. For example, John nerededir? = what do you guess about where john is? yoldadır = i guess he is on way. Geliyordur = i guess he is coming. Turkish also uses miş with “tir” to make guess about what may have happened in past. They do not know what happened but only guess. For example. Gelmiştir. = i guess he came./i guess he has come -- Combination with past and past gittiydi =( i saw ) he had gone. Tom gelmeden, john gittiydi.= john had god before Tom came. (I was at home when john went. So i saw that john went.I also saw that Tom came later) -- Combination with miş and past. gitmişti = (i heard/realized later) he had gone., (I was not at home when he went. But when i m back to home, i realized that he is not home. ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş) 1-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor) yormuş *if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it. 2- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür) armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş *if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it. armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş 3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak) ecekmiş, acakmış *if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it. ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış 4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş) mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş (this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
Just like Turkish, Classical Japanese also had two types of past tense: ki and keri. ari "to be, to have" ari-ki "was/were, had(speaker's firsthand experience)" ari-keri "was/were, had(apparently)" Hajime ni kotoba ari-ki. "In the beginning was the Word." Ima-wa mukashi, Taketori no Okina to iu mono ari-keri. "Once upon a time, there lived/was a man called Taketori no Okina." Modern Japanese has lost both of them, and the verb-ending "ta", which represents past tense in Modern Japanese, is derived from "tari", which used to represent perfect aspect.
Yes it can. "Sınavı kazanacakmış da üniversiteye girecekmiş." (Turkish, if you haven't realized) means sarcastically "(S)he will win the exam and go to university." You have to put a "da/de" (too) if you're talking about causality. Also, there is no such things as "gitmişmişler" 7:45.
@@selincankat4591 Kulağa garip gelse de "gitmişmişler" doğru bir kullanım. "Duyulan geçmiş zamanın rivayeti" diye araştır. "Öğrenilen geçmiş zamanın rivayeti" veya "-miş'li geçmiş zamanın rivayeti" diye de geçer. Translation for non-Turkish readers: Even though it sounds weird, "gitmişmişler" is correct usage. Look up "Hearsay of heard past tense". It is also known as "Hearsay of learned past tense" or "Hearsay of past tense with - miş".
At least in Turkish, it's common to combine future tense with inferential past tense to express sarcasm. "Kazanacakmış", literally meaning "(Apparently), he/she would win", is often used to mean (sarcastically) "(As if) he/she will win".
Ive been waiting for the alien biosphere 3 for a month. I check my phone this morning, still none. I got thr notifitlcation for this video, and super excited until I saw what iy was. Still a good video, though, I guess.
evidentiality is not that bizarrely specific. ever hear of lying? yeah. it helps reign that in and get people to state their sources. all humans lie. therefore all evidentiality is a reasonable construct.
IT's a nice and complete video, but it would have been slightly better if you mentioned that contrary to most of your examples might convey, evidentiality is not limited to obscure languages and Turkish: it appears in much more famimliar languages (to an English speaker) too, and the part on repurposed verbal morphology would have been perfect for that: many Romance languages use the future tense (Spanish/Italian) or the conditional (French) to expressed something you don't have first hand evidence of. In fact, it's recommended in French language journalistic ethics to always use the conditional in an article about a research paper that doesn't have conclusive results, so as not to spread potentially incorrect facts.
Haha, as soon as I start working on a conlang there’s a new biblaridion video
the stars have aligned!
it's like he knows lol
Bruh
Keep starting conlangs! Go! Go! Go!
@@MURDERPILLOW. Become a chronic restarter!
"all languages are capable of encoding the same information" cries in piraha
i mean, you can say "five" by saying "the quantity of fingers on my hand", and you can say "red" by saying "like blood", so...
This sounded weird to me at first but then I remember that my native language has a suffix that means something like "you should already know that" or "I shouldn't need to say this"
what language is that?
@@terdragontra8900 Plautdietsch
A condescension/bad exposition suffix, nice.
Sounds like how the Swedish word "ju" works. It's really dang hard to explain as a native speaker, because it can be used in so many different ways depending on context, but it always relates to some obvious or presumed common knowledge.
@@elias.t Maybe they're cognates 'cause the Plautdietsch suffix is /jə/
I love these videos so much! Even though I’m not myself trying to create a conlang, it’s really interesting and kinda calming. Thanks Bib
I'm wondering whether your name is a reference to time-riders or if it's just coincidence
harys_john
I actually have no idea what you’re talking about, is there a fictional character called Liam o Connor?
@@leem4386 Wow, what are the odds of that? Yeah he's a time traveller in an agency that tries to protect history, it's a pretty good book although a bit confusing
SEAMUS O'CONNOR
With how misinformation spreads in the modern era and how people misunderstand what science, facts, and evidence are, I think we would all gain something from using evidentiality.
I have been watching conlang videos for years. I started with artefexian, watched some conlang critic, the xidnaf, and then I found you, honestly not sure how I didnt find you earlier. I made a "Conlang" a while ago, but it ended up just another english spelling reform, though I still use it just for the aesthetic. I made a few scripts I still love and use, but I am now making a conlang for a school project that I could choose. Thank you to you all, you gave me a target for a minor, (Linguistics!) I am going to major in mathematics though. (Still a HS sophomore)
MarbleSwan666 Doing the exact same thing! I’m majoring in Mathematics and minoring in English! Currently in 11th grade (?) (I’m British Idk)
Check out Jordan Peterson, his channel has good conlanging stuff
@@oz_jones David Peterson, you mean.
Bide, @@oz_jones, is Jordan soothly what the J. in David J. Peterson standeth for?
I happen to love Turkish, so thank you very much indeed!
Poland?
@@wtc5198 To a degree. It's complicated.
miş is used with other tenses too.
geliyormuş= (i heard that) he is coming
gelecekmiş =(i heard that) he will come
gelmişti =(i heard that) he had come
geldiydi= (i saw that ) he had come
gelirmiş=(i heard that) he comes
----
Dır/tir suffix can be used to make guess.
For example,
John nerededir? = what do you guess about where john is?
yoldadır = i guess he is on way.
Geliyordur = i guess he is coming.
Turkish also uses miş with “tir” to make guess about what may have happened in past. They do not know what happened but only guess. For example.
Gelmiştir. = i guess he came./i guess he has come
--
Combination with past and past
gittiydi =( i saw ) he had gone.
Tom gelmeden, john gittiydi.= john had god before Tom came.
(I was at home when john went. So i saw that john went.I also saw that Tom came later)
--
Combination with miş and past.
gitmişti = (i heard/realized later) he had gone.,
(I was not at home when he went. But when i m back to home, i realized that he is not home. )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş)
1-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor)
yormuş
*if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it.
2- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür)
armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş
*if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it.
armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş
3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak)
ecekmiş, acakmış
*if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it.
ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış
4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş)
mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş
(this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
Will there be a video on head-marking or polypersonal agreement?
Hopefully he makes one because I have no idea what those are
Those topics are covered in Syntax and Grammatical Evolutions respectively in his “How to make a Conlang” series. Head-marking I don’t see much he can add, and I guess he could elaborate on polypersonal agreement but those videos cover them pretty well.
There is one now
In Italian we can use the future tense to express a kind of dubitative form, so for example if someone asks you where Paul is, you could answer "sarà a scuola" (lit. "he will be at school") if you're not sure
Could you maybe make a feature focus on gender/noun class systems?
One of my conlangs only marks evidentiality in the future tense, because when future vision is common, it's useful to know whether someone assumes something will happen from context, plans to make it happen, or saw that it will happen.
Well done! I finally got some order in my knowledge about evidentials.
lol on first-person evidentials: I think sarcasm would make a fantastic use for those as well
Hi, would it be possible for you to do a video on creole languages? Thanks!
I hate to sound like Thandian, but I’m adding optional evidentiality to my conlang now.
Dont
@@incredulity Why?
@@GravityGrid Cause
Artorius Rex Same here
The voice recognition on my phone thought I said "I blood on" instead of biblaridion.
Every. Single. Time.
-.-
In Bulgarian you can hear the sentence "Бил съм се бил напил и съм се бил сбил." with some regularity. The proper translation would be "Evidently I've gotten drunk even though I don't remember it and they say I've gotten in a fight."
More feature focus please!! love these kinds of videos so much! Maybe do some on formality, grammatical gender, and polynysynthetic languages.
In German, modal verbs double up as evidentiality markers. "Werden" can be used for inferential evidence, and "sollen" for hearsay. This is often overlooked in grammars of German, as "werden" is usually seen as the future auxiliary (which it isn't; German doesn't have a proper future tense).
In which way do we have no proper future?
@@blauesserpiroyal2887 Basically, any statement about the future can be expressed using the present tense:
Im kommenden Jahr finden die Wahlen zum US-Präsidenten statt.
Wenn ich mein Studium abgeschlossen habe, gehe ich ins Ausland.
The modal verb "werden" conveys a degree of uncertainty. Naturally, it's frequently used to describe future events, since the future is by definition uncertain. Compare the sentences "Morgen wird es regnen" vs "Morgen regnet es". The latter sounds more assertive. I feel like you would use the former most of the time, since you can never know for sure whether it will rain tomorrow. Similarly with the above example: if you would say "...werde ich in Ausland gehen", it would sound more like you're expressing your intention; with the present, it sounds like it's a fixed plan.
@@trafo60 oh, that makes sense. Danke
@@trafo60 Yes I find Standard Grammars to be really shit even at describing the so-called standard language never mind dialects.
"Wollen" is also used as reportive evidential: "er will seine Hausaufgaben gemacht haben" - "he claims that he has already done his homework".
I looked into evidentiality recently, and no language can exist without it at all. Just because a language doesn't have markings and/or whatnot for evidentials doesn't mean it doesn't have evidentials at all.
Thanks, literally the only video I could find explaining evidentiality in Bulgarian! Which was what I needed.
The other stuff was interesting as well. ;)
It has been over a year since the first episode of the “making a language” series. Is there anything that you’d change or add to that series?
Huh strange
I'm a native lithuanian speaker but I never heard the phrase 'jo rašoma laiškas' anywhere...
Idk I feel like the more common version would be 'jo rašomas laiškas'
Agreed.
Could be a typo on Biblaridion's part, or an error in his sources
Ptaku93
Yeah maybe
I mean idk maybe it's correct
It's not a form we use a lot anyways so I don't know that much about it
Turkish is definitely, without a doubt, the best language. This is the best video I have ever seen.
What a masterfully put-together lesson, complete with examples and everything. Your channel introduced me to Guy Deutscher's Unfolding of Language, which then prompted me to read Through the Language Glass, where I imagine you got some of the introduction from. ;-)
These videos are an invaluable contribution to Linguistics, and I'd just like to thank you for making TH-cam a better, more rich platform. Looking forward to seeing you tackle more subjects in the future. Cheers!!
PS: Not sure if you've addressed this previously, but I'd like to know where you get the info from─some of these languages are pretty obscure (Tsafiki, Tariana, etc.), so sources on where I'd be able to read more would be awfully appreciated.
my language handles evidentiality and mirarity with particles, which came not from words, but from interjections, even tho it’s optional
dow: rumored facts “dow adubike ne.” (They say that it’s raining.)
woho: obvious facts “woho adubike ne.” (Of course it’s raining, duh)
pwe: unexpected facts “pwe adubike ne.” (Apparently it’s raining.)
ga: intense emotion “adubike ne ga!” (Wow, it’s raining!)
um: possible facts “um adubike ne” (Maybe it’s raining.)
This is rather like Japanese sentence-final particles
I think in one of your videos you mentioned Edun. You should do a video on it cause you got me interested.
When is the alien biosphere part 3 video coming out?
Soon, soon
I'm so excited for it too! I imagine it's a massive amount of work to do all the research and get all the graphics though.
@@elizabethsullivan1894 hfb
Soon
Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş)
1- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş)
mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş
(this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
I have heard that He came = Gelmiş
I have heard that He came But I do not believe it = Gelmişmiş
2-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor)
yormuş
I have heard that he is coming= geliyormuş
*if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it.
I have heard that he is coming but i do not believe it = geliyormuşmuş.
3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (r,ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür)
armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş
I have heard that he used to get up early= Erken kalkarmış
*if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it.
armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş
I have heard that he used to get up early but I do not believe it= Erken kalkarmışmış
4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak)
ecekmiş, acakmış
Gelecekmiş = I have heard that he will come
*if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it.
ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış
Gelecekmişmiş = I have heard that he will come but I do not believe it.
EVET
@@PimsleurTurkishLessons aslında düşününce o kadar da yanlış değildi, -mışmış diyen biri kendisine denilenden şüphe ediyordur, değil mi? Ayrıca, yazında eksik bir kullanım daha var bence; bir kişi ona, o da bize söylemişse de ek tekrarlanabilir
tam olarak nerede diyor acaba
@@Osz6 5:30'da miş anlamının geçmiş zaman anlamına geldiğini söylüyor.
tamam miş tek başına kullanıldığında o anlama gelebilir de, zamandan bağımsız sadece "duyma, sonradan öğrenme" anlamına da geliyor. mesela
"gelecekmiş = i have heard that she s going to come.,
gelirmiş gibi.
buralarda miş en sonda.
fakat mişti derken miş önce ti sonra. çünkü onun gitmiş olduğunu o giderken görmedin. o kısım mişli. fakat sonradan onun orada olmadığını gözünle gördün o kısım görülen geçmiş zaman eki "ti".
mesela eve geldin evin soyulduğunu farkettin. bunu arkadaşına anlatıyorsun. o da diyor ki hırsızı yakalayabildin mi sen de diyorsun ki, hayır ben geldiğimde o çoktan gitmişti.
-
bir de dıydı, tıydı zaman var. geçmişin geçmişi.
mesela sen bir düğündesin, nikah kıyıldı nikah memuru ayrıldı. bunları gördün. sonra birisi düğüne geç geldi, sana nikah memurunun nerede olduğunu sordu. sen de ona dedin ki, " sen gelmeden o gittiydi."
onun gelmesi geçmiş zaman, memurun gitmesi geçmiş zamandan önceki bir geçmiş zamanda gerçekleşti. sen bunların her birini gördün. hem memurun gittiğini hem de birinin düğüne geç geldiğini gördün." ikisini de görülen geçmiş zamanla söylersin.
@@PimsleurTurkishLessons anladım fakat video'da öyle bir kullanımı olmadığını söylemiyor, ekin tek başına hem geçmiş zamanı hem de eki kullananın olaya şahit olmadığını belirtiğini, düz geçmiş zaman ekiyle kullanıldığında öncesinin öncesinden bahsedilğini anlatıyor . Yani ekin tüm özelliklerinden bahsetmek istememiş olabilir çünkü video kendi dillerini yaratmak isteyen insanlar için çeşitli doğal dillerdeki çeşitli örnekleri sunuyor, eminim video içinde türkçeden yeterince örnek verdiği/vereceği için daha detaylı anlatmamıştır :D
So glad to see this series isn't over!
This video has prompted me to reconsider the evidential patterns in my conlang Siye. The suffix -yosa- + irrealis mood + positive polarity means "supposedly" - it's a semantic Dubitative that emerged from a grammatical Indirect via extreme cynicism. Its counterpart (currently labeled Energetic "certainly"), -yosa- + irrealis mood + negative polarity, indicates the speaker's Direct evidence, but due to its derivation as a negative of the Indirect, nonetheless takes irrealis mood.
In one of my conlangs there is an evidential that I call the "orthogrative" that conveys that the speaker read about the information or got it from some form of text. Would like to know people's thoughts on this.
Basically I would translate it as "I read that" or something to that effect. So a sentence might be translated as "(I read that) your father went to jail"
P.S: For those curious the conlang translation is "Selora beno gazhu po vilintacho". Literally, "go-past.perf.-orth. father-sing.-nom. you-sing.-gen. def-sing-article prison-sing.-all"
Se= "to go"
"-l" = past perfective
"-ora" = orthogrative
Beno= "father/dad"
Ga= 2nd person singular pronoun
"-zhu" = genitive
Po= singular definite article
Vilinta= "jail/prison"
"-cho" = allative
Hey, love your videos!
Do you think you could give any adivce on constructing languages from currently existing ones?
Specifically, I'm thinking about constructing a language for a post-apocalyptic worldbuilding... thing, based on two languages I know (to some extent). Because I'm a boring European, that'll just end up being a boring Indo-European something, at most with some Hungarian, Turkish, and/or Arab admixture, but still, do you have any advice at all? (I'm not expecting you to make a whole video about it, any advice at all in written form would suffice)
I was wondering about a feature that I would like to put in my conlang and I was hoping you can talk about it.
That feature is vowel harmonization.
Can you do a video that explores how adverbs come about? And how would one restructure (or reorder) the words of one language into a different language - let's say how would one translated a SVO sentence into an OSV or a VOS sentence, and how does one distinguish from direct object and indirect object?
actually tamil also has a "it seems that" distinction in evidentiality !
example -
he ate - saptaan
apparently he ate - saptaan-aam (in written and colloqial) / saaptaan-aamaa (in colloqial only)
it seems that he ate - saptaan-pozhirku (in colloqial and written) / saptaan-aatirku (in colloqial only)
Yeah Biblaridion talked about Tamil in his "My top 10 favorite languages"
On a flip-S conlang (I guess they're called as that, but I mean those languages which change the subject of an intransitive verb from the Agent to the Patient to mark involuntary and voluntary if it's the reverse), could it be possible to evolve the pacient pronouns and now they mark a "non-firsthand", plus the person? At least the conjugated forms of them, and later transitive verbs take those "Pacient Conjugation" (If they mark the Agent) as the evidential one.
Ithoug this because of the 6:36 minute, when you said that "(Apparently) I've arrived" it's used like involuntary mark. I'm just doing the reverse of this and with all pronouns.
Later of this, because the conjugated system is which has changed, the pronouns just keep their job as pronouns.
So, you probably are already doing this, but could it be possible to make more videos like this? Just certain terms to help understanding how languages work, since I am working on a conling via your videos, but am kinda stuck on some of the forms like causative and so on...
Cool spotlight on something we don't have in English, thanks!
miş is used with other tenses too.
geliyormuş= (i heard that) he is coming
gelecekmiş =(i heard that) he will come
gelmişti =(i heard that) he had come
geldiydi= (i saw that ) he had come
gelirmiş=(i heard that) he comes
----
Dır/tir suffix can be used to make guess.
For example,
John nerededir? = what do you guess about where john is?
yoldadır = i guess he is on way.
Geliyordur = i guess he is coming.
Turkish also uses miş with “tir” to make guess about what may have happened in past. They do not know what happened but only guess. For example.
Gelmiştir. = i guess he came./i guess he has come
--
Combination with past and past
gittiydi =( i saw ) he had gone.
Tom gelmeden, john gittiydi.= john had god before Tom came.
(I was at home when john went. So i saw that john went.I also saw that Tom came later)
--
Combination with miş and past.
gitmişti = (i heard/realized later) he had gone.,
(I was not at home when he went. But when i m back to home, i realized that he is not home. )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş)
1-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor)
yormuş
*if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it.
2- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür)
armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş
*if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it.
armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş
3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak)
ecekmiş, acakmış
*if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it.
ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış
4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş)
mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş
(this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
Idea - you could use voice to convey evidentiality. For example, 'He broke the lamp' suggests certainty, 'the lamp was broken by him' could suggest inference. Add irrealis mood to that and you already have four different evidentiality registers! Anything that legitimizes the passive voice is going to get my approval
My friend and fellow scholar, if only you would reveal your name and your sources! Than I could use this presentation and cite it in my Master's-level course project. Lots of really great information here, both for boots-on-the-ground linguists and conlangers.
What if you’re commanding someone, or saying what will happen because you’re going to make it happen? Do they get their own evidential markers, or should they be left unmarked.
Amazing video, very insightful!
I'm learning something about my language! Yaay!
What marking would the narrator's voice use in a novel written in an evidential language? How do they recount tales and stories?
In Bulgarian we have thus funny tongue twister "Bil sum se bil napil i sum se bil bil" (I had gotten drunk and fought + doubt), where the word "bil" is used both to apply the doubt (to both having gotten drunk and having fought) ("bil" 2 and 3)AND to apply past perfect to the verb "to get drunk" ("bil 1") AND as a plain verb "to fight" (bil 4).
Can you do more showcases?
Where do genders and other noun classes derive from?
Do a video on ergativity (:
Amazing video :)
Love your videos!
better get those notes ready
Where did you get the Mangarrayi and Gooniyandi examples?
Individual affixes for evidentiality always seem over-complicated and weirdly specific until you try to pin an exact definition on the words we use in English. What's the difference between 'allegedly' and 'apparently'? How much overlap is there?
Nice timing, I was just watching one of your videos! Keep up the awesome content.
Was I the only one a little caught off guard with the map at 1:50 with the new world being in the right side?
What about for sentences that are false?
I have a question. How would one design a language continuum?
What's a language continuum?
@@Duiker36 example :
person A understands person B
person B understands person C
person A does not understand person C
Apply some sound changes that only apply to some speakers
Bayraklar asılmamış
wut
Random Roma St Station cameo at 6:23.
I didn't expect this while watching a language video.
I wish English had this. Being a Pyrrhonian would be so much easier lol 😂
@@nexusanphans3813 no the desire is purely selfish and I understand that, I literally only want it so I don't have to keep clarifying my niche philosophical views on epistimology lol
@@_pink_clovers Just use adverbs a lot. I use 'apparently' way too much but I'm pretty sure marking evidentiality a lot is allowed in English it's just not mandatory and grammaticalised. Be the change you want to see in the language lol.
Ben biraz yeni Türkçe öğrenmiş 😂 😎 teşekkür
miş is used with other tenses too.
geliyormuş= (i heard that) he is coming
gelecekmiş =(i heard that) he will come
gelmişti =(i heard that) he had come
geldiydi= (i saw that ) he had come
gelirmiş=(i heard that) he comes
----
Dır/tir suffix can be used to make guess.
For example,
John nerededir? = what do you guess about where john is?
yoldadır = i guess he is on way.
Geliyordur = i guess he is coming.
Turkish also uses miş with “tir” to make guess about what may have happened in past. They do not know what happened but only guess. For example.
Gelmiştir. = i guess he came./i guess he has come
--
Combination with past and past
gittiydi =( i saw ) he had gone.
Tom gelmeden, john gittiydi.= john had god before Tom came.
(I was at home when john went. So i saw that john went.I also saw that Tom came later)
--
Combination with miş and past.
gitmişti = (i heard/realized later) he had gone.,
(I was not at home when he went. But when i m back to home, i realized that he is not home. )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combined tenses with unwithnessed tense(mış,miş,muş,müş)
1-Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present continuous tense (yor)
yormuş
*if you add one more "muş" again "yormuşmuş" this means you do not believe it.
2- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The present simple tense (ar,er,ır,ir,ur,ür)
armış, ermiş, ırmış, irmiş, urmuş, ürmüş
*if you add one more "mış,miş,muş,müş" again this means you do not believe it.
armışmış, ermişmiş, ırmışmış, irmişmiş, urmuşmuş, ürmüşmüş
3- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The future tense (ecek,acak)
ecekmiş, acakmış
*if you add one more "mış,miş" again this means you do not believe it.
ecekmişmiş, acakmışmış
4- Unwithnessed tense's combination with The unwithnessed tense (mış,miş,muş,müş)
mışmış, mişmiş, muşmuş, müşmüş
(this tense means you do not believe the reported thing)
@@PimsleurTurkishLessons senin videolarin harika --teşekkürler! (/^o^)/
@@pauleugenio5914 beğendiğinize sevindim. Sağ olunuz.
ALIENS PART 3
Are you still doing the series on alien biospheres?
There's an 11th episode now
@@wtc5198 I am aware.
When will the next Conlang Showcase be?
Just like Turkish, Classical Japanese also had two types of past tense: ki and keri.
ari "to be, to have"
ari-ki "was/were, had(speaker's firsthand experience)"
ari-keri "was/were, had(apparently)"
Hajime ni kotoba ari-ki. "In the beginning was the Word."
Ima-wa mukashi, Taketori no Okina to iu mono ari-keri. "Once upon a time, there lived/was a man called Taketori no Okina."
Modern Japanese has lost both of them, and the verb-ending "ta", which represents past tense in Modern Japanese, is derived from "tari", which used to represent perfect aspect.
Nice video dude!!
Please do alien biospheres part three!
4:50 laiškas needs to be in the genitivs not in nominAtive in the second sentence
Could sarcasm be expressed this way?
Yes it can. "Sınavı kazanacakmış da üniversiteye girecekmiş." (Turkish, if you haven't realized) means sarcastically "(S)he will win the exam and go to university." You have to put a "da/de" (too) if you're talking about causality. Also, there is no such things as "gitmişmişler" 7:45.
@@selincankat4591 Kulağa garip gelse de "gitmişmişler" doğru bir kullanım. "Duyulan geçmiş zamanın rivayeti" diye araştır. "Öğrenilen geçmiş zamanın rivayeti" veya "-miş'li geçmiş zamanın rivayeti" diye de geçer.
Translation for non-Turkish readers:
Even though it sounds weird, "gitmişmişler" is correct usage. Look up "Hearsay of heard past tense". It is also known as "Hearsay of learned past tense" or "Hearsay of past tense with - miş".
At least in Turkish, it's common to combine future tense with inferential past tense to express sarcasm. "Kazanacakmış", literally meaning "(Apparently), he/she would win", is often used to mean (sarcastically) "(As if) he/she will win".
3:40 they have their own language now???
I only know about this feature because of Laadan
ok same
@@desia.brimou friend dealer?
@@yeetyeet-jb6nc yes?
Ive been waiting for the alien biosphere 3 for a month. I check my phone this morning, still none. I got thr notifitlcation for this video, and super excited until I saw what iy was. Still a good video, though, I guess.
evidentiality is not that bizarrely specific.
ever hear of lying? yeah. it helps reign that in and get people to state their sources.
all humans lie.
therefore all evidentiality is a reasonable construct.
You can literally just lie about the Source
How do you say hello in Thandian?
Araknus2002 fuck if I know
nice
ALIEN BIOSPHERES 3
Unfortunately your accent really needs a bit of work (for Turkish), but I appreciate the inclusion nonetheless...
IT's a nice and complete video, but it would have been slightly better if you mentioned that contrary to most of your examples might convey, evidentiality is not limited to obscure languages and Turkish: it appears in much more famimliar languages (to an English speaker) too, and the part on repurposed verbal morphology would have been perfect for that: many Romance languages use the future tense (Spanish/Italian) or the conditional (French) to expressed something you don't have first hand evidence of. In fact, it's recommended in French language journalistic ethics to always use the conditional in an article about a research paper that doesn't have conclusive results, so as not to spread potentially incorrect facts.
Nice vid but it's BASH-kun GEL-di, not Basshkun Geldy.
Ipa?
@@mambooooooo917 /baʃkʰan.g̟ɛldi/
@@turkishraccoon What is weird mix between broad and narrow transcription?
@@yeetyeet-jb6nc What?