I was ready to order the Winwing stick. However, it cannot be used on my Virpil base, it can only be used with a Winwing base. Another reviewer, who talked about the base, mentioned it is a bit stiffer to use than Virpil. That detail decided it for me. Also, if this is not a Winwing advert, then include a link to the Virpil stick above.
Hi I don't know what stick to choose I'm laying dcs just installed it recently but I want something of good quality. I saw vkd has good stuff what do u think?
@@erfguuipo8084 How long have you been playing DCS? If you’ve only been on it for a few weeks and don’t really know much about any of the planes, I’d learn first and then make the purchase. If you’re sure you’ll be sticking with DCS and need a good stick, I am a huge fan of the Virpil stick and would recommend it. Just know that you will need to purchase a base separately on Virpil’s website to mount the stick to and the base you buy depends on how you want to use the stick.
@@Valkarons I bought 2 vkb gladiator evo base and two grips . The left one became a throttle but I don't like it as throttle the handle is slant at angle making the buttons orientation crazy.
GR aren’t doing a great job of being unbiased about Winwing products. The TM Warthog versus Winwing HOTAS comparison video was silly. There’s no question there are elements of the TM Warthog that are executed better. Winwing’s stuff, while very high quality it’s still shy of “unquestionably the best execution” (where they tried) which Virpil and the TM Warthog accomplish. Surface feel, button actuation feel (and sync) leave something to be desired on Winwing’s stick.
@@BurntPlaydoh It is, but you can just buy a Virpil Gimbal and use the Warthog Grip or the F/A-18 Grip with it. I think Thrustmaster -> Virpil is a much nicer upgrade path than Thrustmaster -> Winwing, simply because you can upgrade more gradually instead of going "all out" immediately.
Great review...I personally feel that the analog stick on the Virpil is a big plus. Also, my Constellation Alpha 2nd stage trigger has a very solid click/feedback. Maybe I have a newer version.
Maybe, mine has always been the same since I got it. The Constellation is a great stick, I just felt that 2nd stage of the trigger (on mine at least ) let it down a bit.
I have both the F16 and F18 Winwing sticks (and throttles) and I agree with your points as to feel. I don't have the Virpil, but spent around 30 years myself with models from the original TM FCS through the Cougar, the Logitech G940 FFB, and the Saitek X56. Never had the Warthog either. For DCS, I find Winwing blows them away. For Il2, the x56 is still very good, I just use the winwing so I don't need to move my sticks around as much. For space sims, I think I prefer the X56.
Why? I have had all 3 , sent the Virpils and Winwings both back. Kept the Warthog and between the F18 and A10 sticks, have everything you would ever need. Quality is better on TM hands down.
@@MetaliCanuck The base sucks balls. Seriously, I had to use a 3d printed gimbal because is was sticking so badly. Also, the seperation of axis is way worse. You really can't feel it if you give some input on an axis you don't want to. IMO, Virpil Base with Virpil Grip for Space Sims and Thrust Master grip for DCS is pretty much ideal.
@@MetaliCanuck lol that tm base is bad i bought a virpil base with the tm stick on it(stick is good from tm). But that base and some buttons like the slew on the throttle are really bad.
For me it's Virpil that actually listens to their customer base (it's sad that's so rare these days), and that buying Virpil allows me to avoid made in China for once. I have Virpil L and R (for Star Cit), Virpil Throttle (for DCS), and Virpil Pedals (for both), and I'm happy as I can be about them. I ordered the Z grips very recently, got them 2 days ago. Took 2 weeks to get, war or no war. It seems Virpil moved from Belarus to Lithuania. More impressive to me was the shipping took 2 days to get from Lithuania to Texas, doing an overnight stay in Paris.
I've been enjoying GR's awesome videos. Thank you both for all your efforts and great work. I've done a couple DCS videos ages ago, I haven't touched it in years. Every year I pop in the DCS store and buy more modules and maps during the Black Friday sale, but other than that I work too much to spread my virtual wings. 2023 I am getting back to my "ME TIME" and I decided to take this year off from Christmas shopping, and instead spoiled myself rotten. I bought the following: Redbird - Yoke - YK1 Pedals - RD1 Throttle - TH1 Virpil - VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime - R (Metal) VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base Flightstick 200mm Extension VPC Flightstick Z-Extension WinWing - F18 Grip Extension Orion 2 Base Super Taurus F/A-18 Hornet Throttle Comb MonsterTech - MTS Base Frame (Fighter, though all the base frames are the same) MTS Base Plate MTS Floor Mat MTS Yoke MTS TV/Monitor Internal Chair Mount Keyboard Tray Next month I will be buying the MTS Center, Left & Right mounts as well as the chair and some other accessories. I also plan on getting the WinWing Top Gun setup, PTO & PCR panels and last, but not least, the VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime - L. Some extra info - Redbird shipped right away. WinWing items I ordered were also shipped right away even though their website said they were delayed a week. They have faster shipping than both Virpil and MT (FedEx). Virpil items were ordered from the USA store and I wish I ordered from the EU store (much faster even though I live in the USA if you look at their forums). Everything on their sites are intentionally listed as back ordered due to their new system and aren't expected to ship for over a month from now, possibly two since USA orders are sent to their USA based store via boat... MonsterTech is all built per order so is the slowest of them all. Their seat is a 6 month wait. I live 4 hours from their Tampa location but it doesn't sell much yet (no MTS items). The bulk of what I ordered I did through their Tampa location and again I regret doing so because I realized I could save hundreds in taxes by ordering from their German store and 99% was coming from them anyway. Their support is the best, and Alex was very helpful in answering most things I threw at him. Not complaining, just giving the information that I learned that I wish I knew prior. I'll at least have it all paid off by the time I get it (or most of it, hehe). Having USA based shops are great to save on shipping costs, but not as fast if all they are are half way houses, so to speak. The items I listed cost over $800 in shipping. The only things I have so far are the Redbird items. WinWing was the last things I ordered only last week and I will have them by the end of this week. The other items I hope to see by February 2023 (based off what Monstertech has told me and what I see on Virpil's forums).
@@gr-skil That would never have worked for me. Fortunately authenticity wasn't a concern for me as I am a space simmer but I did oogle that OG Warthog with envy for many years. I had the will and the money but there just wasn't anything to splurge it on, I'm glad that has changed in the last few years.
Had to go Virpil for the twist z-axis. Didn't want to deal with pedals, but now that Apache is out, I'm wanting to get some. You should do a product comparison on pedals next(sorry if you have and I haven't seen it yet).
My F-16EX stick, while the 2nd stage trigger certainly has a physical activation, the digital activation is far later. If you’re going for multiple light squeezes of the 2nd stage trigger, you’ll miss it frequently on the Winwing. If you want to hit the 2nd stage, you just have to think about fully squeezing or you risk missing it.
Thank you for honest and detailed feedback. You mention you don't the "rumble function" on the stick: what function is that? Sorry I'm not a native speaker. Is that the haptic feedback?
@@pekonipappa9292 I know but Dutch customs is rather enthousiastic at the moment with checks and adding import and handling costs so the 300 dollar stick will be 400 euros excluding shipping.
@@pekonipappa9292 agreed. They do look to be of decent quality so that is worth something but it is enough of a hassle to stop me from buying it. And it it is not that I am unfamiliar with international/intercontinental purchases. I usally don't do them though for items above 250 euro
@@StefsEngineering ive been looking into both winwing and virpil but im leaning on virpil. because the price would be about the same for a set and its easier and also propably easier to integrate into space sims like SC or ED
The Virpil has 3 axis, x, y and Z. Also the analog stick can be configured to work as a directional switch. The Virpil software is extremely flexible, and you can create additional virtual switches from any axis. The Winwing has a tiny dead zone in the center which you can't remove. The virpil stick can be configure to had zero deadzone, which takes full advantage of the 12bit hall effect sensors, which make things like air refueling A LOT easier. Finally. the integrated Z axis also makes a huge difference when using guns in dogfights, and can also be adjusted to have no dead zone for maximum tactile precision. Even the cheap joysticks have a Z axis, I still can't believe Winwing sticks come without it.
The virpil's analogue stick is a plus for me, as is the scroll wheel (I use it for the collective sometimes). The twist axis is another plus... and the winwing addon is awful to see.
The trigger's second stage is one of the things I _don't_ like withg the WinWing's F-16EX: With TM Warthog stick I could pull off alll the slack and the instant click with minimal travel on the second stage, which meant that I could fire off very sharp, accurate bursts. With the WinWing there's more travel with the second stage leading to a delayed shot. Furthermore, it requires more force to pull which more often than not it moves the stick slightly throwing off your aim.
I am literally jumping for joy right now. I've been running DCS and goofing around with it but using minimal equipment and pretty basic stuff. My roommate who recently retired, and literally is loaded. Has been watching me mess with DCS and decided that he's going to start playing it also. As he used to run flight simulators twenty-some years ago and been wanting to get back into it. He watch this review with me and decided that he's going to go all out and buy this one along with the best Rudder pedals, throttle control and everything else. I told him he was looking at a couple of thousand dollars oh, and his comment was that's all? Yeah I can't wait to be running it on a good system. So please if anybody has good recommendations for Rudder pedals, VR setup Etc
Thanks, it looks like there might be some interest in a base comparison, so I'll plan to do one in the future. Unfortunately I haven't ever owned or used VKB gear, so I wouldn't be able to include that in the comparison.
I have to agree. While my first impression with Virpil was excellent (T-50 1 grip on a CM-1 base), every upgrade after that has been disappointing. First the CM-2 grip is not comfy, I have to move my hand constantly to reach buttons and the feel is not great. The buttons feel is not great at all, and it demanded quite some time to not click in the wrong direction. I have to exagerate my movments ... Then I bought the CM-3 throttle ... and sold it 2 months right after. The ergonomic is awful (a lot of buttons cramped in small area) and the plastic red levers are really bad to the touch. Absolutely un-natural ... And just recently I bought the CM-3 base and well ... kinda mixed. The precision of the first base is not there but I think it may need to age a little to become smooth and on point. Note that my first base suffered from the cam screws to be overtightened and locked with red loctite, cam swapping was a nightmare the first time. Each time I dropped Virpil I turned to Winwing and safe to say I'm more than happy. Their panels are well arranged, the Orion 1 throttle was good but the Orion 2 is even better. Now the 3 MFDs + screens are working like a charm. It's cheaper and still the quality is good enough. Virpil is way more expensive for something that is very well made inside, but the feeling and the ergonomics are absolutely awful. Winwing on the contrary, just requires a few minutes and you go straight to what you want to reach. Now I'm thinking to replace my last Virpil piece with the F-16EX and MFSSB base for the Viper. If I prefer the feel of the Winwing, I can either get another Orion 2 base to general flying and ditch the Virpil or keep it to rotary dead-stick flying.
I do quite like me some rudder control on my stick, was one of the reasons I went from my X-45 back to my Cyborg 3D Gold... Do Winwing do a base with this feature?
Hey, on some photos the sticks seem to be connected with extension to the base. Is it the orion base or the super libra? And if it is the orion base how does it cope with the extension?
I have it fitted to an extension on a Super Libra base. I do have the F18 stick on an extension mounted to an Orion base. I know it is not advised and that the base is not designed for an extension, however I have had no issues with it so far. I guess it's a "use at your own risk" kind of deal.
@@gr-skil Hey, thx for your answer. :) It's really sad that the Winwing sticks are not compatible with Virpil bases. I really love the looks of the F-16EX stick but i never liked the super libra base from the reviews i've seen. Do you still plan to make a comparison video of the Virpil and Winwing bases?
@@ZYXWV75 the plan is to hopefully do some kind of base comparison, although the only Virpil base I have is the WarBRD. I have both the WW Super Libra and the Orion, and used the TM Warthog for about 10 years, so I'll see if I can do something...
Thanks, unfortunately I haven't owned or used any of the Virpil throttles, (although I assume they would be the same great quality as their sticks), so cannot do a comparison. We already did a comparison between the Winwing Orion based gear and the Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle.
Does WinWing sticks fit on Virpil bases? I have a Virpil base that i use the tm stick on. I have the Virpil Mongoose cm2 stick but i don't like it, feels cheap and the hand rest is to small. The quality of the F-16 TM stick (not base) is good but i need more buttons so was thinking of buying the EX stick with an Orion 2 throttle.
imma use this review when i get around to buying higher end sticks; I was going to go with with Constellation R+L versions for a HOSAS (for my space sims) but with the z-axis plus so many buttons, i am now thinking about using the F-16EX for right stick and Constellation Alpha-L for left stick.
I used to think I had large(ish) hands but after trying the Thrustmaster F/A-18C stick and finding it too large for me to comfortably push all the buttons, I'm rethinking what size stick would work best for me. I currently have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (that 30$ cheapo stick) which honestly fits in the hand perfectly but it's really old and half the buttons don't work and it didn't have a lot of buttons to begin with. Any advice for someone wanting a stick with more buttons that'll still be of comparable comfort to that stick?
Cheers, I haven't owned or used any of the VKB lineup, so not in a position to do a comparison with VKB gear, I'll see if any of the others are able to do that.
When will real force feedback come 'back' ? . It's a shame these sticks can cost so much yet there is no support for real force feedback in lamedows anymore
I recently bought the virpil and really don't like the ergonomics. I'll be selling it and looking at the Winwing if anyone is looking for a new discounted virpil
I see a bunch of gabs between the parts, doesnt seem to be good quality .. I don't need a tesla stick The clicking of the stick seems to be for me not the best quality. Thrustmasters Stick doesn't click that load and has a smooth moving and clickling exp.
Warthog= MASTER RACE I had Virpils and Winwings. Sent both back and kept the Warthog I had for 5 years already with the A10 and F18 grips. More buttons does not mean better, Warthogs sticks are IDENTICAL replicas. Until Virpil and Winwing can do it with the same amount of buttons the sticks in real life have, its apples and oranges. Your crazy if you think Virpil or Winwing even hold a candle to the Warthogs quality. Open the sticks up and you'll see for yourself!
I had and used the Thrustmaster Warthog A10 stick for 10 years, and got the TM F18 stick when it was released. I agree, both were/are great. Build quality wise, I did have to replace the weapons release button and the countermeasures switch on the TM A10 stick ( and re-solder some poor connections in the Warthog base), but overall I was very pleased with them. Only time will tell about the Winwing and Virpil gear reliability, but so far, I haven't had any problems and I'm in to realms of over years of use for both...
the problem with winwing is that the Z axis is NOT available anymore so there is no rudder control at all so you have to own pedals. I have a disability so cannot use pedals so the winwing is useless for my apache or any helicopter at all. I bought a winwing F16 EX because the z axis on the website said out of stock so i figured ok ill get the stick and get the twist when it comes in. That wa a year ago and they now just do not make the z axis anymore so im screwed with a joystick and base for hundreds of $$$ that I cant use for what I mostly do which is Heli flying. It also doesnt work about 50% of the time because it just connects and un-connects all the time as I am flying in the simulator and OMG good luck with Winwing support. Go through a hundred emails with each one with a single instruction on how to possibly fix it. Example.... one email says unplug and plug in USB cable. 2nd email says power PC on and off again. 3rd email says uninstall and reinstall simapppro software..... OMG like I didnt try all of that stuff first. The emails just go on and on like that including individual emails about how to take the stick apart and try to fix it inside like im some sort of electronic repairman! Just send me a FUCKING new joystick to replace the malfunctioning one. They do anything to avoid peplacing a broken stick thats under warranty. Please avoid WINWING!!!!
I was ready to order the Winwing stick. However, it cannot be used on my Virpil base, it can only be used with a Winwing base. Another reviewer, who talked about the base, mentioned it is a bit stiffer to use than Virpil. That detail decided it for me. Also, if this is not a Winwing advert, then include a link to the Virpil stick above.
Hi I don't know what stick to choose I'm laying dcs just installed it recently but I want something of good quality. I saw vkd has good stuff what do u think?
@@erfguuipo8084 How long have you been playing DCS? If you’ve only been on it for a few weeks and don’t really know much about any of the planes, I’d learn first and then make the purchase. If you’re sure you’ll be sticking with DCS and need a good stick, I am a huge fan of the Virpil stick and would recommend it. Just know that you will need to purchase a base separately on Virpil’s website to mount the stick to and the base you buy depends on how you want to use the stick.
@@Valkarons I bought 2 vkb gladiator evo base and two grips . The left one became a throttle but I don't like it as throttle the handle is slant at angle making the buttons orientation crazy.
GR aren’t doing a great job of being unbiased about Winwing products. The TM Warthog versus Winwing HOTAS comparison video was silly.
There’s no question there are elements of the TM Warthog that are executed better. Winwing’s stuff, while very high quality it’s still shy of “unquestionably the best execution” (where they tried) which Virpil and the TM Warthog accomplish. Surface feel, button actuation feel (and sync) leave something to be desired on Winwing’s stick.
@@BurntPlaydoh It is, but you can just buy a Virpil Gimbal and use the Warthog Grip or the F/A-18 Grip with it.
I think Thrustmaster -> Virpil is a much nicer upgrade path than Thrustmaster -> Winwing, simply because you can upgrade more gradually instead of going "all out" immediately.
Great review...I personally feel that the analog stick on the Virpil is a big plus. Also, my Constellation Alpha 2nd stage trigger has a very solid click/feedback. Maybe I have a newer version.
Maybe, mine has always been the same since I got it. The Constellation is a great stick, I just felt that 2nd stage of the trigger (on mine at least ) let it down a bit.
Thanks Skill! Personal preferences vs professional reviews - Appreciated!
Thanks Ken.👍
I have both the F16 and F18 Winwing sticks (and throttles) and I agree with your points as to feel. I don't have the Virpil, but spent around 30 years myself with models from the original TM FCS through the Cougar, the Logitech G940 FFB, and the Saitek X56. Never had the Warthog either.
For DCS, I find Winwing blows them away.
For Il2, the x56 is still very good, I just use the winwing so I don't need to move my sticks around as much.
For space sims, I think I prefer the X56.
It is just so strange that TM doesn't update their highest sim product line.
Why? I have had all 3 , sent the Virpils and Winwings both back. Kept the Warthog and between the F18 and A10 sticks, have everything you would ever need. Quality is better on TM hands down.
@@MetaliCanuck The base sucks balls.
Seriously, I had to use a 3d printed gimbal because is was sticking so badly.
Also, the seperation of axis is way worse. You really can't feel it if you give some input on an axis you don't want to.
IMO, Virpil Base with Virpil Grip for Space Sims and Thrust Master grip for DCS is pretty much ideal.
@@MetaliCanuck Lmao TM literally uses worse components everywhere.
@@MetaliCanuck lol that tm base is bad i bought a virpil base with the tm stick on it(stick is good from tm). But that base and some buttons like the slew on the throttle are really bad.
For me it's Virpil that actually listens to their customer base (it's sad that's so rare these days), and that buying Virpil allows me to avoid made in China for once. I have Virpil L and R (for Star Cit), Virpil Throttle (for DCS), and Virpil Pedals (for both), and I'm happy as I can be about them. I ordered the Z grips very recently, got them 2 days ago. Took 2 weeks to get, war or no war. It seems Virpil moved from Belarus to Lithuania. More impressive to me was the shipping took 2 days to get from Lithuania to Texas, doing an overnight stay in Paris.
I agree, I have always had a good experience when dealing with Virpil.
I'm glad your doing this. Because I'm currently trying to decide between these 2
What about vkd?
I've been enjoying GR's awesome videos. Thank you both for all your efforts and great work. I've done a couple DCS videos ages ago, I haven't touched it in years. Every year I pop in the DCS store and buy more modules and maps during the Black Friday sale, but other than that I work too much to spread my virtual wings. 2023 I am getting back to my "ME TIME" and I decided to take this year off from Christmas shopping, and instead spoiled myself rotten. I bought the following:
Redbird -
Yoke - YK1
Pedals - RD1
Throttle - TH1
Virpil -
VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime - R (Metal)
VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base
Flightstick 200mm Extension
VPC Flightstick Z-Extension
WinWing -
F18 Grip
Extension
Orion 2 Base
Super Taurus F/A-18 Hornet Throttle Comb
MonsterTech -
MTS Base Frame (Fighter, though all the base frames are the same)
MTS Base Plate
MTS Floor Mat
MTS Yoke
MTS TV/Monitor Internal
Chair Mount Keyboard Tray
Next month I will be buying the MTS Center, Left & Right mounts as well as the chair and some other accessories. I also plan on getting the WinWing Top Gun setup, PTO & PCR panels and last, but not least, the VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime - L.
Some extra info - Redbird shipped right away. WinWing items I ordered were also shipped right away even though their website said they were delayed a week. They have faster shipping than both Virpil and MT (FedEx). Virpil items were ordered from the USA store and I wish I ordered from the EU store (much faster even though I live in the USA if you look at their forums). Everything on their sites are intentionally listed as back ordered due to their new system and aren't expected to ship for over a month from now, possibly two since USA orders are sent to their USA based store via boat... MonsterTech is all built per order so is the slowest of them all. Their seat is a 6 month wait. I live 4 hours from their Tampa location but it doesn't sell much yet (no MTS items). The bulk of what I ordered I did through their Tampa location and again I regret doing so because I realized I could save hundreds in taxes by ordering from their German store and 99% was coming from them anyway. Their support is the best, and Alex was very helpful in answering most things I threw at him. Not complaining, just giving the information that I learned that I wish I knew prior. I'll at least have it all paid off by the time I get it (or most of it, hehe). Having USA based shops are great to save on shipping costs, but not as fast if all they are are half way houses, so to speak. The items I listed cost over $800 in shipping. The only things I have so far are the Redbird items. WinWing was the last things I ordered only last week and I will have them by the end of this week. The other items I hope to see by February 2023 (based off what Monstertech has told me and what I see on Virpil's forums).
Thanks Skil! Very thorough presentation.👍
Thanks Kelso.👍
Great advice! Thanks!
Nice short comparison. But as a lefty I am just very happy the Constellation Alpha-L exists.
Yes, Virpil have done well with the left handed grip! I'm a lefty too, but had to just get used to using right handed sticks over the years!!🤣
@@gr-skil That would never have worked for me. Fortunately authenticity wasn't a concern for me as I am a space simmer but I did oogle that OG Warthog with envy for many years. I had the will and the money but there just wasn't anything to splurge it on, I'm glad that has changed in the last few years.
Had to go Virpil for the twist z-axis. Didn't want to deal with pedals, but now that Apache is out, I'm wanting to get some. You should do a product comparison on pedals next(sorry if you have and I haven't seen it yet).
Might do a pedals comparison at some point in the future.
WinWing also has a twist z-axis - you just insert a little module between grip and base.
My F-16EX stick, while the 2nd stage trigger certainly has a physical activation, the digital activation is far later. If you’re going for multiple light squeezes of the 2nd stage trigger, you’ll miss it frequently on the Winwing. If you want to hit the 2nd stage, you just have to think about fully squeezing or you risk missing it.
Hmmm, I do not have the same issue, but thanks for pointing it out.👍
Thank you for honest and detailed feedback. You mention you don't the "rumble function" on the stick: what function is that? Sorry I'm not a native speaker. Is that the haptic feedback?
Yes, a similar "rumble" function to that you find in console game controllers.
I'm surprised they are about the same size. Interesting. That means the VKB MCE is also in that ball park.
I have not had or used any of the VKB lineup, so can't confirm, but would assume they wouldn't be too different in size 🤷♂️.
Grim reapers are sponsored by Winwing thus this review should, not be taken seriously.
Bro said that he had to twist his hand to press the pinky switch on the CR which is completely untrue unless you have baby hands.
@@xela79 you know what THAT means......
@@Thumper770 yep
Who cares?
If you're basing your multi-hundred dollar purchase off ONE guy's opinion, biased or not, then YOU are the weak link here.
I'd love to get one of these sticks but wish they had an european warehouse or had european distributors.
international shipping is a thing. but yes the shipping cost is harsh.
@@pekonipappa9292 I know but Dutch customs is rather enthousiastic at the moment with checks and adding import and handling costs so the 300 dollar stick will be 400 euros excluding shipping.
@@StefsEngineering you have to remember that if it originated from EU you would pay those same prices. it just wouldnt be as big of a hassle
@@pekonipappa9292 agreed. They do look to be of decent quality so that is worth something but it is enough of a hassle to stop me from buying it. And it it is not that I am unfamiliar with international/intercontinental purchases. I usally don't do them though for items above 250 euro
@@StefsEngineering ive been looking into both winwing and virpil but im leaning on virpil. because the price would be about the same for a set and its easier and also propably easier to integrate into space sims like SC or ED
The Virpil has 3 axis, x, y and Z. Also the analog stick can be configured to work as a directional switch. The Virpil software is extremely flexible, and you can create additional virtual switches from any axis. The Winwing has a tiny dead zone in the center which you can't remove. The virpil stick can be configure to had zero deadzone, which takes full advantage of the 12bit hall effect sensors, which make things like air refueling A LOT easier. Finally. the integrated Z axis also makes a huge difference when using guns in dogfights, and can also be adjusted to have no dead zone for maximum tactile precision. Even the cheap joysticks have a Z axis, I still can't believe Winwing sticks come without it.
Thanks, your video helped me greatly with a decision
The virpil's analogue stick is a plus for me, as is the scroll wheel (I use it for the collective sometimes). The twist axis is another plus... and the winwing addon is awful to see.
Nice comparison
Thanks.👍
would be nice (if possible) to do a split screen of flying a helo/jet whilst using the joystick.
Thanks, I might do a quick followup video including some picture in picture of the sticks being used.
@@gr-skil 👍
The trigger's second stage is one of the things I _don't_ like withg the WinWing's F-16EX: With TM Warthog stick I could pull off alll the slack and the instant click with minimal travel on the second stage, which meant that I could fire off very sharp, accurate bursts. With the WinWing there's more travel with the second stage leading to a delayed shot. Furthermore, it requires more force to pull which more often than not it moves the stick slightly throwing off your aim.
I am literally jumping for joy right now. I've been running DCS and goofing around with it but using minimal equipment and pretty basic stuff. My roommate who recently retired, and literally is loaded. Has been watching me mess with DCS and decided that he's going to start playing it also. As he used to run flight simulators twenty-some years ago and been wanting to get back into it. He watch this review with me and decided that he's going to go all out and buy this one along with the best Rudder pedals, throttle control and everything else. I told him he was looking at a couple of thousand dollars oh, and his comment was that's all? Yeah I can't wait to be running it on a good system.
So please if anybody has good recommendations for Rudder pedals, VR setup Etc
I got the thrustmaster tpr rudder pedals and Im really happy with them! What joystick brand he gonna get?
@@DanneJensen pretty sure he's going to get the F-16 joystick from Winwing
@@Wyomingchief Very nice
Thank you, please do the base comparison: Virpil, Winwing, VKB, Thrustmaster!
Thanks, it looks like there might be some interest in a base comparison, so I'll plan to do one in the future. Unfortunately I haven't ever owned or used VKB gear, so I wouldn't be able to include that in the comparison.
is the Winwing stick the same as Worthog dimension-wise? I mean the stick itself, how it feels in hand.
I have to agree.
While my first impression with Virpil was excellent (T-50 1 grip on a CM-1 base), every upgrade after that has been disappointing.
First the CM-2 grip is not comfy, I have to move my hand constantly to reach buttons and the feel is not great.
The buttons feel is not great at all, and it demanded quite some time to not click in the wrong direction.
I have to exagerate my movments ...
Then I bought the CM-3 throttle ... and sold it 2 months right after.
The ergonomic is awful (a lot of buttons cramped in small area) and the plastic red levers are really bad to the touch.
Absolutely un-natural ...
And just recently I bought the CM-3 base and well ... kinda mixed.
The precision of the first base is not there but I think it may need to age a little to become smooth and on point.
Note that my first base suffered from the cam screws to be overtightened and locked with red loctite, cam swapping was a nightmare the first time.
Each time I dropped Virpil I turned to Winwing and safe to say I'm more than happy.
Their panels are well arranged, the Orion 1 throttle was good but the Orion 2 is even better.
Now the 3 MFDs + screens are working like a charm.
It's cheaper and still the quality is good enough.
Virpil is way more expensive for something that is very well made inside, but the feeling and the ergonomics are absolutely awful.
Winwing on the contrary, just requires a few minutes and you go straight to what you want to reach.
Now I'm thinking to replace my last Virpil piece with the F-16EX and MFSSB base for the Viper.
If I prefer the feel of the Winwing, I can either get another Orion 2 base to general flying and ditch the Virpil or keep it to rotary dead-stick flying.
For me in Australia I would definitely go with the WInwing, it's around 200AUD cheaper. Virpil just isn't very accessible for us Aussies
I do quite like me some rudder control on my stick, was one of the reasons I went from my X-45 back to my Cyborg 3D Gold...
Do Winwing do a base with this feature?
Hey, on some photos the sticks seem to be connected with extension to the base. Is it the orion base or the super libra? And if it is the orion base how does it cope with the extension?
I have it fitted to an extension on a Super Libra base.
I do have the F18 stick on an extension mounted to an Orion base. I know it is not advised and that the base is not designed for an extension, however I have had no issues with it so far.
I guess it's a "use at your own risk" kind of deal.
@@gr-skil Hey, thx for your answer. :) It's really sad that the Winwing sticks are not compatible with Virpil bases. I really love the looks of the F-16EX stick but i never liked the super libra base from the reviews i've seen. Do you still plan to make a comparison video of the Virpil and Winwing bases?
@@ZYXWV75 the plan is to hopefully do some kind of base comparison, although the only Virpil base I have is the WarBRD.
I have both the WW Super Libra and the Orion, and used the TM Warthog for about 10 years, so I'll see if I can do something...
Why couldn't you just say the Virpil.. :( I really like the scroll wheel for zooming.
I like my Virpil a lot. Must have gone up in price. Got mine at 184.50.
Good video, appreciated from a first time purchaser, any chance you can do one about the throttles of each company ?
Thanks, unfortunately I haven't owned or used any of the Virpil throttles, (although I assume they would be the same great quality as their sticks), so cannot do a comparison.
We already did a comparison between the Winwing Orion based gear and the Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle.
Does WinWing sticks fit on Virpil bases? I have a Virpil base that i use the tm stick on. I have the Virpil Mongoose cm2 stick but i don't like it, feels cheap and the hand rest is to small. The quality of the F-16 TM stick (not base) is good but i need more buttons so was thinking of buying the EX stick with an Orion 2 throttle.
Wish you had used the VKB MCG Ultimate for comparison..
Winwing haters gonna hate.
Now review the new alloy Virpil Alpha PRIME Vs F16ex #virpil #alloy
I’d like to see a base comparison on Supra libra and new f16 ex base
Might do one at some point.
imma use this review when i get around to buying higher end sticks; I was going to go with with Constellation R+L versions for a HOSAS (for my space sims) but with the z-axis plus so many buttons, i am now thinking about using the F-16EX for right stick and Constellation Alpha-L for left stick.
I went with virpil gear 3 weeks ago, Would like to see a base comparison 🙌
Thanks, it looks like there might be some interest in a base comparison, so I'll plan to do one in the future.
I used to think I had large(ish) hands but after trying the Thrustmaster F/A-18C stick and finding it too large for me to comfortably push all the buttons, I'm rethinking what size stick would work best for me. I currently have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (that 30$ cheapo stick) which honestly fits in the hand perfectly but it's really old and half the buttons don't work and it didn't have a lot of buttons to begin with.
Any advice for someone wanting a stick with more buttons that'll still be of comparable comfort to that stick?
Just remind me who sponsored the Grim Reapers channel ?
Base comparison of supra libra vs virpil cm2 would be really appreciated
The best comparison would be vkb mcg ultimate pro
Cheers, I haven't owned or used any of the VKB lineup, so not in a position to do a comparison with VKB gear, I'll see if any of the others are able to do that.
This video was sponsored by Winwing like all the other Reaper videos...
Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 87
I rather support European companies. Virpil and MFG all the way.
Ok, both make great products.
Can you use the alpha stick on the winning base?
Thanks for the video but some better lighting is definitely needed.
Ok, thanks for the feedback, I'm not a professional reviewer or TH-camr, so any feedback helps👍.
With the winwing. Isn’t the z axis on the base? (If you have a base that has the z axis.
No, for the Winwing the Z-axis is a separate item you have to purchase. It is not part of the sticks or the bases.
@@gr-skil ah okay. Yeah i wasn’t sure
@@gr-skil u will never buy one they confirmed it
What’s your hotas ?
Winwing Libra/Taurus
When will real force feedback come 'back' ? . It's a shame these sticks can cost so much yet there is no support for real force feedback in lamedows anymore
I recently bought the virpil and really don't like the ergonomics. I'll be selling it and looking at the Winwing if anyone is looking for a new discounted virpil
can you use the winwing stick on the virpal base?
No, not as far as I am aware anyway.
Hello Boyz
...and here I am still simping with the Saitek X52 and still shooting y'all down. ROFL
It's not the hardware that makes the virtual fighter pilot!! (Although sometimes it helps with the AAR!!)🤣
I see a bunch of gabs between the parts, doesnt seem to be good quality .. I don't need a tesla stick
The clicking of the stick seems to be for me not the best quality. Thrustmasters Stick doesn't click that load and has a smooth moving and clickling exp.
This one not sponsored by Winwing?
lol that would be "problematic"
Warthog= MASTER RACE I had Virpils and Winwings. Sent both back and kept the Warthog I had for 5 years already with the A10 and F18 grips. More buttons does not mean better, Warthogs sticks are IDENTICAL replicas. Until Virpil and Winwing can do it with the same amount of buttons the sticks in real life have, its apples and oranges. Your crazy if you think Virpil or Winwing even hold a candle to the Warthogs quality. Open the sticks up and you'll see for yourself!
I had and used the Thrustmaster Warthog A10 stick for 10 years, and got the TM F18 stick when it was released. I agree, both were/are great. Build quality wise, I did have to replace the weapons release button and the countermeasures switch on the TM A10 stick ( and re-solder some poor connections in the Warthog base), but overall I was very pleased with them.
Only time will tell about the Winwing and Virpil gear reliability, but so far, I haven't had any problems and I'm in to realms of over years of use for both...
Warthog base is greasy plastic trash. Virpil is all metal, smooth and precise cam and bearing action even after 3 years of use.
The rgb is so cringe
first!!
the problem with winwing is that the Z axis is NOT available anymore so there is no rudder control at all so you have to own pedals. I have a disability so cannot use pedals so the winwing is useless for my apache or any helicopter at all. I bought a winwing F16 EX because the z axis on the website said out of stock so i figured ok ill get the stick and get the twist when it comes in. That wa a year ago and they now just do not make the z axis anymore so im screwed with a joystick and base for hundreds of $$$ that I cant use for what I mostly do which is Heli flying. It also doesnt work about 50% of the time because it just connects and un-connects all the time as I am flying in the simulator and OMG good luck with Winwing support. Go through a hundred emails with each one with a single instruction on how to possibly fix it. Example.... one email says unplug and plug in USB cable. 2nd email says power PC on and off again. 3rd email says uninstall and reinstall simapppro software..... OMG like I didnt try all of that stuff first. The emails just go on and on like that including individual emails about how to take the stick apart and try to fix it inside like im some sort of electronic repairman! Just send me a FUCKING new joystick to replace the malfunctioning one. They do anything to avoid peplacing a broken stick thats under warranty. Please avoid WINWING!!!!