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How ISO affects Dynamic Range on the BMPCC 4K/6K
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- How Dual Native ISO affects the Dynamic Range on the BMPCC 4K. Which Native ISO is the best setting for the black magic pocket cinema camera 4K.
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Hi, my name is Nathan, I’m a filmmaker sharing what I learn in concise videos. Subscribe for my film tutorials, gear reviews, short films and behind the scenes content, every week on TH-cam.
Solid! I was waiting for this! After our conversation I semi sorta tested it with the old GH5 but will see what the GH5 does in terms of its non-dual ISO. Really changes my approach to choosing the right ISO for the job and scene, now just need a good set of ND filters! Thanks for your look into this subject!
Coincidentally I’m going to be testing a variable Nd filter from a brand I’ve never heard of. PS I got the 50-100mm today!
I wonder if there is a share out their for the GH5’s dynamic range at the various ISO’s
I do believe you have to shoot in LOG in order for this to work.
Totally!
This is the clearest most simplified explanation of dual-native ISO I've seen on TH-cam yet.
Appreciate the kind words!
I wholeheartedly agree
Great video! Regarding ISO 1000 and ISO 1250, the manual suggest, "...If you are shooting in conditions where you have a choice
between ISO 1,000 or 1,250, we suggest closing down one stop on your lens’ iris so
that you can select ISO 1,250 as it will engage the higher native ISO and provide much
cleaner results." Makes sense, because yo have more details in the shadows, therefore a cleaner image. Just adjusting exposure with aperture got your highlights preserve again.
Yep, you'll want to use 1250 if you want less noise in the shadows. However you will be losing a lot of highlight detail, nearly 3 stops. If you were to protect the highlight with aperture to get the same level of detail, you would have to close the aperture by 3 stops, and you would have an underexposed image at that point. So you have to pick and choose which one is best for the scene
this is the only person on youtube who knows how to explain dual native ISO. bravo King!
Appreciate it!
Dude this video is awesome. So simple and straight to the point. Thanks man!
finaly someone who knows how Dynamic range works!
Ahh this is really important. I know quite a bit about cameras and dynamic range, but I was not aware or even paying attention to where that range is being allocated. Thanks for the explanation. It really makes sense since you will use 3200 in low light situations and 400 in well lit situations. I just assumed it had roughly the same DR no matter what haha.
Thanks for this! I was never going to shoot iso1000 because of the shadow problems but you have now opened my eyes as to when it should be used. Thanks again.
Dope! Glad to help
Fucking awesome visual illustration of a really important concept dual-native ISO users should learn to control.
Thanks!
Great video mate, I never thought of dual ISO this way. Thanks
You're explanation is the best so far! I have only one question. Shooting with my 6K pro at 800-1000 ISO, in such lighting conditions, i come up with tones of grain and the worst is some strange bumping horizontal lines. What causes that effect, and have you ever experienced that with your camera?
This is the most helpful video of how ISO in BMPCC works, very well done Nate. I will add this one to my personal recommended list.
Thanks Bruno! I appreciate it
thank you so much, you made this so easy to understand now i know that if i am in a club or a dark scene i can easily focus in what it is important to capture based also in the native iso instead of just pumped it out everything. Thanks a lot! I would like to learn more also about how to understand the ire and read vector-scope to know how to expose or overexpose for some kind of situations
Great information. I had no idea about the trade off and at which point the signal switches. Thanks!
Great video, helped me understand the content of the other video you referenced! The Filmmaker IQ video basically said in bright scenes use an ISO as close to 1000 as possible (given acceptable noise levels) as there will be more latitude in the highlights - but in low light situations stay as close to 1250 as possible as this will give the most detail in terms of shadows based on the graphic showing stops below/above middle grey for each ISO.
The confusing part is that the Filmmaker IQ video shows compensations by having a super high/low shutter speed etc but in reality many videographers are filming in 25/50fps with a 180 degree shutter angle and only altering the aperture/ISO for exposure (besides adding/removing light from the scene where possible). If it's still applicable that lower ISO = lower noise, why would you look to boost the ISO in a well lit scene to near 1000 when that potentially means closing down the aperture when you are trying to achieve a shallow DOF?
Could you almost say it's a recommendation to always shoot with an ND filter to allow you to boost that ISO?
very awesome and super helpful :) thanks!
What's the dynamic range when filming at ISO 1250?
Maybe the best video about the bmpcc 4k
A lot of people blamed me in the fb group for saying this 🤣 it's important to choose the right iso in camera... And not in resolve
Thanks for this video! But I don't understand one thing. You're choosing iso 1000 instead of 1250 for saving highlights while leaving more noise. What if you will go to 1250 and expose for highlights to save them (lower down exposure). Then lift shadows in post. What will happen?
Very good concern! I wanna know the answer as well.
@@DonnieGQX Same
Regarding ISO 1000 and ISO 1250, the manual suggest, "...If you are shooting in conditions where you have a choice
between ISO 1,000 or 1,250, we suggest closing down one stop on your lens’ iris so
that you can select ISO 1,250 as it will engage the higher native ISO and provide much
cleaner results." Makes sense, because yo have more details in the shadows, therefore a cleaner image. Just adjusting exposure with aperture got your highlights preserve again.
Why wouldn’t you stick closer to the actual native ISOs and use other means for proper exposure? Like opt for either 400 or 3200 or similar, then adjust either aperture or add NDs. Would that not give you the most DR?
Depending on the situation. Eg if you want more information in the highlights; push towards the higher end. If you want more information in the shadows; push towards the lower end.
Great video and nice footage 🔥 to help explain how it all works! Thanks 👍
Great video!! Such a good description!
Awesome thanks!
Great video, haven't had the same feeling since learning about ISO and f/stops from Zack Arias about 12 years ago. You put it perfectly clearly and made it easy to understand. Many thanks, subscribed.
that was a great explanation
Do the exact same principles you described here apply to the GH5s (not the GH5) as well when it comes to Dual native ISO?
In theory yes, in practice I don’t know how noticeable would be
So iso 100,1000 and 1250 to use and not the 400 and 3200 native iso
So just let be clear, dual Native iso cameras don't record on both isos simultaneously? Thanks for the video.
That is correct, at least with the black magic cameras.
great video explaining this but either you made a mistake or I don't get it! :D For the highlight recovery of the sunny shot you used the example of ISO1000 and ISO125. But aren't those both in the first native ISO range and should protect the highlights or is this a typo and it's meant to be 1250 ISO?
The best way to explain what's happening here is to think that the camera doesn't really have an ISO of 125. Instead it has one at 400 and 3200. ISO 125 is being digitally pulled down from 400 and therefore you see the highlights are clipped, because when you decide to shoot at 125 , you are going to have a darker image compared to ISO 400. Still with me? In order to get a properly exposed image at ISO 125, you have to increase exposure via a lower f/stop or less ND. Still with me? You are physically letting in more light when to tries to get proper exposure. Remember the camera doesn't have a true ISO 125, It's still ISO 400. So you've now overexposed those highlights.
This explains so much. I've been shooting outside and then went to edit and realized exactly what you're demonstrating.
Another something I found out was that if you record an ISO in camera, you can change it in post, but it is stuck to one or the other native ISO ranges. So if I record something in camera at 1000 ISO, I can change the ISO in post to anything below that, but not above it. Make sense?
Thanks for the video!
Exactly. The native ISO’s kind of acts like a new camera. Once you cross the threshold at 1250 you enter the new ISO path.
Crucial to know this if you plan on change a lot in post.
@@NatesFilmTutorials Which I love about this camera, because you CAN change those things in post. I'll never go back to my GH5 or really any camera that doesn't shoot RAW anymore.
Haha! That’s awesome! I’m not as familiar with Resolve. I wish FCPX or Premiere was able to edit Black Magic Raw. I would probably have used that feature a lot more.
Very good explanation, thank you!
Thanks. Do you own a BMPCC 4K?
@@NatesFilmTutorials No, not yet, but want to get one in the near future.
Awesome video bro 👏🏽👏🏽
Isn't all those highlights recoverable when shooting in raw?
No. Cameras that have dual native ISOs it’s almost like having two different cameras. Once set above 1250 ISO you can’t go to ISO 1000 or below
Unless your camera has unlimited dynamic range lol
2:27 onwards: shouldnt it be ISO 1250 instead of 125?
Ahhh yep that’s a typo in the original video I did not see
Top
But when you are at ISO 1000 it also has a lot more noise right?
How did you go about getting noiseless at ISO 1000? Mine has a lot of ISO
Thanks for this very usefull video! Wouldn't 3200 or 4000 also be a good choice for the dark scene with the fire? It has more details in the shadow than the 1000 but also more informations in the highlights than the 1250.....
Such fantastic video!
Thanks Prabhjot!
not fully understand. Did you mean Iso1000 compared to Iso 250 or iso 1250 . When there's sky overexposure it tells ISO250, when there are shadows, strangely more noisy 1000 than 1250.
So highlights is better to shoot with higher iso, like 1000 to get better dynamic range? And also shadows are less noisy with higher ISO?
Ahh no worries. The best way to explain what's happening here is to think that the camera doesn't really have an ISO of 125. Instead it has one at 400 and 3200. ISO 125 is being digitally pulled down from 400 and therefore you see the highlights are clipped, because when you decide to shoot at 125 , you are going to have a darker image compared to ISO 400. Still with me? In order to get a properly exposed image at ISO 125, you have to increase exposure via a lower f/stop or less ND. Still with me? You are physically letting in more light when to tries to get proper exposure. Remember the camera doesn't have a true ISO 125, It's still ISO 400. So you've now overexposed those highlights.
What's mentioned above applies to all cameras with a single native ISO. We throw in a new factor when we have Dual Native ISO's
ISO 1250, like 125, is being pulled from the native ISO, ISO 3200. This is why there is an extreme difference between ISO 1000 and 1250. You go from underexposing and protecting highlights to overexposing the highlights, because you are actually shooting at 3200.
This is why you should you a low ISO in dark low key scenes and a high ISO in bright, high key scenes. Dual Native ISO camera's give you a second option, like filming dark scenes at 1250 with less output from your lights, instead of 125 where you would need more intensity.
Hope this helps! I'd recommend watching Filmmaker IQ for more scientific breakdowns of exposure.
well it at the same time right and wrong because you can also change the exposure and expose for highligts or shadows and drop where you want to go like in zone system.
You’ve got a valid point, I don’t know what differences there would be, because you would still crush those shadows. Unfortunately I cannot test it further atm, because I no longer have it on loan
@@NatesFilmTutorials you will not crush as long as you know what you want to do and expose right. 12 stops of dr is wide and there is plenty of latitude.
great ! thank you
watched the filmmaker IQ video and was like, wat. thanks for the dumb down explanation
Very Good!
You resaid what Filmmaker IQ said?
Pretty much. But clearly there is benefit, my audience reaches a different group and the information remains valid. My video isn’t to replace his, but summarizes what he had said, with my experience. Plus, I really enjoy his content and want to share it with others. Thanks for watching!
So..... if the camera can do 4k60, why not 4k30 with alternating native ISOs to extend the dynamic range? (i'm new to video coming from a few decades in photo) Wouldn't this yield a capture range of 16 stops?
Hey Sean! I don’t know the exact science of it. This was possible using magic lantern on DSLR cameras, but require post processing to make it work.
@@NatesFilmTutorials Right??! It's 2020! I think the new Sigma fp has this feature with a firmware update. Red had it a long time ago, too, and claimed 18 stops. I just do so much interior video/photo that it's currently impossible to get both inside and outside detail.
Because of patents. More patents - more price. Dual ISOs had patented by some companies (for example, RED).
Did you do this test in raw? You didn't clarify
Shot in ProRes. This works best in RAW or in LOG. Be careful in RAW, once you enter a new ISO range you cannot switch to the other ISO in post.
It doesn't affect dynamic itself.
If you want to film in 1000 iso, it's better to film in 1250, then stop down with the aperture or ND filter
Isn’t BMCCP4k native ISO 400 and 3.200?
Yes! But at ISO 1250 it’s starts pulling from the second Native ISO. that’s when and where you can see less noise, but you also have less dynamic range
@@NatesFilmTutorials whats about 6k native ISO, it's the same as 4k?
It’s the same. You can see the when it starts using the second native ISO when you toggle through them. It’ll look like it’ll have more contrast all of a sudden
800 and 3200 native ISO. NOT 400 and 3200
Not according to black magic design www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs/W-CIN-12
!!!Just advise, go to read the actual manual of BMPCC4k and you will notice new DR chard which is awesome!!!!
www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs/W-CIN-12
thanks a lot this is very helpfull. like and subscribe for this video!
Well PResented - even someone with NO Knowledge at all managed to understand (me)
Glad to hear! Thanks Jack!
i must be dumb bc i didn't understand anything from this video
First.
Christian Effiong 🏆