One of the issues with contests is that if you submit something and you dont get selected, you dont know why. Sometimes its a technicality, sometims its because the jury didn't liked your work, sometimes its because there was better work... its all highly subjective and the lack of feedback is a big issue for most competitions. I think there is much more value on social media as Ted stated but also on engaging with local communities and get feedback on your work, that is constructive. And thats very hard to get. Most people zap trough photos and only take a few seconds looking at it, if that. And then they just put a Like on what they like. But its all very fast and almost by instinct, than by critical analysis and evaluation. How many of you with an instagram account get bad feedback? Even if its not constructive, bad feedback tells more about your work than Likes on a page. I sure would welcome criticism to my pictures. I would exchange 1 constructive feedback for all of the likes I have on every single photo.
I have to agree with you. Very nicely put. What’s nice about sharing constructive comments on social media is that you can also evaluate the pertinence of the comment - knowing from whom it comes from - because you also have access to their images. I always welcome a constructive comment but not everyone does (especially when it’s a bad one). I give lots of positive feedback but restrain the negative ones to the people who (I know) will benefit from them. I will submit a bad comment by proposing an alternate solution, i.e. a better way that it might have been done. And if I do not have any suggestion, I will not comment at all (which means that my comment is worthless - there are no benefit to gain). Some people go beyond sharing their images, they share not only the metadata but how they worked the picture, in-camera and post-processing. Those I really appreciate. I have found out that whenever I publish an image and was unsure, the feedbacks confirmed my doubts. I have also found out that when I seek to write down what I like in a photograph, I become a better photographer. So my positive feedback serve to show my appreciation to the photographer and serves me as well. Thanks for sharing your views Joäo!
I enter a couple local competitions each year because they keep me connected to the local community. But in general I agree with you. It is a mistake to judge your value as an artist by entering contests and we live in a different world.
I find that a lot of competition-winning work nowadays is either trendy (too modern in the sense that it doesn't say much) or extreme (photos from war zones and exotic locales). They're great if your work has those qualities.
Never ever pay to get your work published, period. It's supposed to work the other way around. I've gotten so much work off of my Facebook page and I'm not even that good (in my eyes). Just get your work out there, and if people like it and you have a nice network, they will eventually come to you.
When you make the page, you'll have to get a bit personal and ask your friends to like it and maybe invite some people (do this personally). Then you'll just have to come up with content that people feel comfortable liking. I started a semi-humans-of-new-york kind of street portrait series where I asked someone random in my home city a different question every day. These people will often tag themselves, their friends will like the pictures, and then you can invite all the new likes under the pictures to like your page as well by pressing the button next to their name. I got to just under 4.000 fans without pushing it or paying for it, which was more then enough to get work from. I work for travel magazines, but also for the city and the university - both of them give me a lot of jobs on a weekly basis. The three must do's spreading online: 1. Invite friends and network at first, don't be shy about it. (Even Brandon Stanton asked all of his FB-Friends to like HONY when he started the series five years ago. 2. Post content that people care for, write some interesting or funny stories to go with it, develop a personality. 3. Post consistently.
I don't look at photography as a competition at all. I've entered some photography comps and they end up picking the shots that aren't that amazing, with all due respect. But it shouldn't come down to a few judges overwhelmed with thousands of entries. But it did make me rethink my work and get better personally. It didn't necessarily change my technique, but it made me think about what is good to my eye and what do I envision for my future as a photographer. Not to sound deep, but if you don't win those competitions, you still come out of it winning in some way because of the way it makes you reevaluate your place in that world.
Hey Ted, great video. I've witnessed and experienced everything you've mentioned, not just in photography but within other art circles. These are things I've been saying for the last 10-15 years to people. When it has come to my photography, I've been taking a bit of a different view on things. I've only recently been taking my photography more seriously but I'm also a bit insecure about it. The internet and social media has made it very easy to get, what I would call, bad criticism. When I say that, I mean criticism that isn't constructive in any way. A thumbs up/like, or a "wow!" or "you're such a great photographer" isn't good criticism to me. I think instagram is great for many things but I've also noticed there are a lot of people following you just because they want you to follow them in return, to boost their follower count. They don't care about your work, at least from what I'm seeing. I'd be interested in hearing more about your experiences with social media. This kind of pushed me into entering a couple of paid, online, competitions over the past year. I also entered 5 photographs into this year's State Fair competition and took home 4 ribbons. I entered out of curiosity and not a desire to "win" though. Even if I didn't win anything, I enjoyed looking at the other entries and I found the experience far more rewarding than seeing another "AMAZING!" comments on a social media post.
Like you said, one must ask ‘What are his intentions?’- Why he wants the ‘attention’. In today’s world, there are many ways of getting ‘attention’ but if I may be crude, there are so many people that don’t really know ‘What for?’ (besides just showing off) - There must be a meaningful reason for participating in a competition. First is there a marketing reason? If not, then you probably are an amateur photographer that has no other ambition but to get a little recognition. Many people would like to be renown as photographers but not many are ready to truly make a living out of it although many amateurs have as good a portfolio as some of the pro photographers. To be a pro photographer, you must have business qualities that aren’t inherent of the art of photography. So is that type of recognition really ’meaningful’ for you? It’s up for you to decide. If you are a serious photography and looking to make a living out of it, you know this will enrich your portfolio. Has the award any value, not so much as your initial portfolio on a well-planned Website which should better describe who you are and what you do. And your Website contains all the coordinates where you can be reached - it’s your marketing place. In fact, if you win an award this will help redirect potential clients to you Website (or social media platform). But if that Website or platform do not meet the expectations of potential clients than you just worsen your case. So it’s mostly about investments. Investing your time on an assignment that may or not reflect the work you do. So be sure to choose the competitions, the themes, that will value the type of work you do. Do you really need to pay an entry fee to enter a completion? NO. There are some that are free to enter but maybe judged by lesser professionals. Those might be just what you need to redirect people to your site. So where should you invest: Building a good website, using social media intelligently, paid contest, free contest? Your first answer should not be any of those. You must first spend time to upgrade your art before publishing any of your work on the Web. Your worst images will invalidate all your good ones. So plan accordingly - curate your own work - and only display those images that reflect the type of work you do now, not the type you once did. Ted knows people that made it from their Instagram account. I know a few that made it by putting their works on ‘stock photo’. Once they got a name - a reputation, they got clients and started their own business. They only used the platform to get noticed and were ready to jump at any direct propositions from direct clients afterwards. And never forget that a printed portfolio has much more value when meeting a client. Competition is surely a way to get notice but it’s short lived. Be sure to have something permanent to show. Besides, having won an award five years ago may not be a good thing to add to your CV - it will only show that you didn’t win anything since!
Well said Ted! Feeling a little better after hearing you talk about it - I've spent a lot of time cutting together work for film festival contests without much luck (while also paying entry fees). In hindsight, sharing work on social media has been much more rewarding :)
I think there's a positive and negative to competition. I grew up playing sports so there might be a bit of that affecting my outlook but if I wanted to become a better tennis player my biggest improvement came from competing against people where I would have to push myself to play my best or I would lose. I don't enter photography competetions with the mindset that it is a failure to lose, rather I look at it as an impetus to push yourself out of your comfort zone. Just entering contests regardless of whether I win or lose has made my work better. If you have to pay a fee per entry even more so. If each entry costs you $35 or $30 or even just $5 your not just going to put any random lazy work that you create. The very act of competing itself can push you to raise your level. This to me is a internal win philosophically regardless of whether I come in 1st or 300th in a contest.
Hi Ted, wanted to let you know that this is probably the best video i've watched of yours to date. I'm not sure if it was the subject matter necessarily but i found the relationship you have with one of the publications, that came about due to following in your father's footsteps, really breathtaking to watch. I found myself completely taken in by your storytelling. Keep up the great content, yours sincerely, Eoghan - a happy subscriber!
I think the paid contest was and is designed solely to weed out a lot of potential submissions. Could you imagine the amount of photographers who would enter that contest if it were free? Especially now. That said, I think that a modern competition entry would be done only for some manner of validation, and not exposure. As you said, instagram, and a host of other social media sites are getting way more eyes on them than any publication at the moment.
i feel that photography contests are a bit contrived . i think that one should really focus on learning and challenging oneself to be as great as he or she could be. here's the thing too, i feel that there are too many photographers wanting to produce the same photos as your Alex Webb's and Gordon Parks', but fail to study the elements that helped them get to where they got. make your money, but stay true tony our style and voice .just my thoughts .
Really, really good video. I loved this one. It made me think about things, and not only photography contests. Even in photography we can easily see how much the world is changing. People talk about the loss of jobs, how hard life is, but as you pointed out in your video, we now have social media influencers as well as the rise of the social media industry. I know that is only one example of new jobs, but I think it is quite amazing how doors close on some things in life and then opens up others.
They can be worth it. I have had friends whose whole career kicked off from winning a 'big' competition, this week I ended up a finalist in an Architectural comp which was on the BBC website and that has led to me quoting for some work. Should you rely on them, nope. But are they worth it? Can be. Select a couple that 'fit' you and your style and take it all as a pinch of salt. There are a couple of really big comps like the Sony's that are free and worth a punt. I tend to look at comps that would help my career, will only pay for certain ones, wont pay for ones that ask for e.g.: £30 for first image and £20 for each additional images. You wont get feedback, but if you do make it to a final or winning it can drive a heck of a lot of traffic to your social media accounts/websites
i'm a mixed media artist, but love photography from a spectator's side as i'm not a photographer; however, i can relate and often learn about composition through photography or seeing alternate approaches to presentation. i watch the majority of your videos, including hardware reviews, because i love learning. *your answer is spot on in this video!* at 5:23, you nail it on the head so well. though commercialism is fine and has its place in art, as artists, we need to define what it's all about _for us_ and in understanding that, we will have a better idea on how to proceed at that crossroad. we need to figure out our intentions and goals. *when we take art out of artwork, it's just work.* if that is the case, we should -sell our tools- re-evaluate our perception.
The biggest problem with the contests is the lack of feedback. I have pretty much given up on them, particularly in light of some of the material that was selected. As you point out, it gravitates towards "fine art", but much of what passes as art these days isn't worthy of publication in my eyes.
I find the lack of feedback frustrating also. I've entered multiple photos into the same contest on several occasions and am always surprised that the judges will pick the one which wasn't the one I considered as being the better one of the entries. I'm happy to have gotten the nod but I'm left perplexed as to why my "top pick" was not theirs.
Competitions like these are important but do have their problems as you have mentioned, particularly paid completions. I myself have entered some competitions but have stopped recently. I think it gets in the way of your creative process and your own development in what ever field of work you are in, the fact that you are simply rejected or accepted into the magazine with no feedback is also a problem for me and is why I submit the bulk of my work to my own Instagram page. Social media sites such as instagram allow a community to be built without the traditional barriers magazines have
I agree with you 100% I'm so glade you talk about this topic. Having your work judged is dependent solely upon the judges ability to judge and I find they are all over the board. At times their selections just don't make any sense. Example is I entered a color print with great tones of color and got 2nd place. The 1st place selection was a black and white print with a dash of red representing 1% of the print. That made my head spine and I still can't get my head around it so, I stop entering. The judges only comment was I had a nice frame. Great work Ted.
Although I've often toyed with the idea of entering competitions, I've always been dubious about the benefits. I worry I would be more interested in producing photos to meet 'competition standard' than producing photos that represent my own vision and passion for the art. In other words, competitions can end up being about satisfying other people's expectations, and like you say Ted it gives a false sense of your work. I like to produce and promote my work on my terms and a competition would seem unnecessarily restrictive. It was a good episode Ted; some of your best videos are where you are candid and reflective like this. Thanks.
I have decided not to enter competitions for two reasons. One, I don't think the kind of stuff I love to shoot would win any awards (long exposure black and white cityscapes) and two I'd much rather concentrate on honing my skills and finding my voice, than trying to fit in our shooting specifically so I could win a prize.
Ted, I entered B&W this year due to the audience they market to. I want to get my work in the hands of collects and that's their business. I was featured in a showing in NYC this year and just had a stellar portfolio review that I'm hopeful will get a showing in the near future. I figured it may be time to get collectors putting eyes on my work. As always thanks for the great content. JW Purdy
thank you for mentioning your personal opinion. i know someone who by chance won a street photography contest in our area. but can't see consistency on his following work and that's fine. what i don't like is he started to think that he is good than the other which i think is not a good sign.
For such discussions - I think it would be great if you could also represent/include people from other sides. You of course said you've tried: - Judging - Entered : didn't win Maybe interview others who have: - Entered : Won : Didn't see any benefit - Entered : Won : Saw significant benefit
Hi Ted, I am late to the party on this video but want to say that I have watched all your videos, liked and shared and occaisionally made a comment. I value your opinion and something you said early in this video really resonated with me. If photography is an art form how can it be judged and compared - to paraphrase. That is my opinion. Someone either likes or doesn't like my art or anyones elses art. I suppose a Facebook 'like' is also a vote so it becomes very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. As you pointed out, it comes down to personal goals. If the ultimate goal is to make money then one has to separate from the herd and gain recognition and have their work judged formally or otherwise aka Facebook. I am an amature and like most people, I do enjoy regonition of my effort. It is a difficult subject with no clear path to a one size solution that fits all. Please keep on keeping on, love you channel and consider you one of my very few photographic gurus.
I have had many compliments on my wildlife photography, but as you said, it's all about social media. I just can't do it. I don't feel comfortable constantly updating, responding, and making videos. You are GREAT at it....but I'm just stuck in the old fashioned world it seems. Still out there getting good images, and that's going to have to be enough for me.
I don't like entering contests. The problem with contests is that it's so subjective on what the judges might like or not like. So you're work may be outstanding but if it's not what they like you don't get picked, which then makes you second guess your work. Then what happens next is even worse. You start creating images that you think the judges will like, instead of images that you like that are in your own style.
Few years ago I realised that this whole idea of being successful and respected in photography was my absolute least favourite part of it. I decided that it wasn't the right career for me and also stopped pursuing competitions and stopped trying to network and get into publications. Instead, I now just shoot my work and share it on my blog, my TH-cam page and my website. That is enough for me and I'm way happier not trying to compete. Competitions were 100% not worth feeling like I was crap at my craft (for a price) when the desired outcome was only something I'd been told I should want anyway.
I feel like contests are very subjective and it's rare to see someone with no outside influence to the judges win. There are a handful of talented photographers where I attended school that have won numerous awards at PDN and other outlets but the kicker is also our chair knows everyone in that specific industry as well. An advantage sure, they are still amazing photographers but there is def an advantage if you are in specific circles.
New Mexico has two major photo shows a year, the Shades of Gray B/W show, and the ANMPAS color show. My photos get accepted every year but don't make the front room, nor do the win any awards (even though the get votes). There are two reasons for this. The judges are other amateurs in the club that puts on the show, so they're not experienced in judging. Secondly, from the first, they tend to pick out photos for subjective likes. The other reason is that there are about two dozen amateur photographers in the Albuquerque area that are very good, even better than the pros in the area. Accordingly, I'm picking out my submissions with an dye to not only my best photos, but to the highest emotional content. We'll see how that goes. I'll let you know.
I think if someone want to get in those kinds of publications they have to see it as tools to make more commission work or connections with clients of a ceirtain level and not as an ego booster
I think as long as the cost isn't too prohibitive, it can be worth it. Publications have costs to cover. In the poetry and fiction publication world, writers have to pay to get your manuscript in any decent contests that would lead to publication. I'd love to hear your thoughts on juried group shows in galleries and museums. These have costs but in my small town, it's the only way to get my work in front of an art audience.
I view publication contests the same way I view county fair contests. It's a challenge, but ultimately meaningless because at the end of the day, it's just someone else's opinion. Learn from the experience if you can and then move on. But above all have fun and put forth your best work.
I feel the same way about juried art shows too. Much time and effort (and money) goes in and the results aren't the greatest. My opinion is similar in that you can showcase your work on,one now. It's not easy to gain followers but at least it's a captive audience that you create for yourself.
I think that, if you are happy to give away what ever rights you have to give away on an image for these competitions, then i don't see what wrong with it if you are trying to promote yourself. Also, the self satisfaction aspect of it surely out weights everything else? I mean, i wouldn't find myself thinking i was better than i am, i would just be stoked to have a piece of work published in a publication like that. But hey, i'm just a happy amateur that's happy to get 1 or 2 "likes" on social media now and again.
You're certainly right about the usefulness of social media, but I guess you should be aware of who's judging you're work. Do you reach the right audience? Is the overall public sensible to fine art photography or to bling pictures such as HDR? And if it's not, how could you be sure to make it right? Anyway, thanks for sharing your so pertinent advices.
I can see how contests for competitive industries like commercial photography can be useful but it seems counterproductive to compete in a field like fine art photography.
How can a committee judge how one conveyed her/his moment's feelings in a photograph? A committee can only judge the technical aspects, but artistic aspects are personal and can only be appreciated, not judged.. That's my humble opinion.
I love your content, but there is a suggestion for you I would like to make: try not to look away from the camera as much as possible, it would make your videos look much better
I just don't think I could put up money get my work seen. I would want to take any money I might have and invest it back into my photography. Cracking social media is plenty for me as I'm already paying for an Internet connection :)
I've entered photos in juried art shows held by a local Arts Council and been picked to participate in group shows, which is an honor of itself and a bit of fun, but as you said the fee paid I see more as supporting that particular group, even if I were not to be picked. People have to realize also that judging and putting on a show or publishing works does cost money and that is where I would suspect the majority of the fees go to.
some are worth it... as a few years ago l entered Intel photography and video competition of videos l make on my utube channel with regards my art in Mendi (body art).. l made up my own video to it... and was quite surprised to have chosen as a semi finalist and than as a Grand Prize Winner.... so rewards are paid off for your hard work... ( l received goods to be worth £3,000 pounds from Intel)......
if you actually get a critique then perhaps it's worth it. if not all you are doing is supporting a lifestyle. be far simpler to send the fee off on its own.
I have a question for you sir I wish you or someone would do a Compition between photographers maybe 6 shooters 3 shooting Jpeg and 3 shooting raw . While I do have a understanding of the difference between the two I think it's the photo not necessarily the the raw file . A great photo is a great photo . See who get the top votes on the best photo ....
I can't see a meaning behind photo competitions.Photography is an art form it's not a drag race or something.Then what's the point of that?? Of course this is my opinion some will agree and some don't i understand +Ted Forbes
contests are funny ....but don't try to make it your bread and butter......that's the best way or my way of looking at it ...... not for recognition but just for the shear excitement ....and energy of being apart of it all...... remember it all about the photography and your art.....not what someone is paying you for....that is the relevance of contests if you do it for any other reason your going to get discouraged and depressed.....I have seen some amazing photos lose compositions so you have to keep that in mind......your going against other artists it's not that there's is better it's that there's is different you know the way they see it face it you know if 100 photographers had the same set you would get 100 different photos it's the artistic impression you leave behind in your photo
Do you think it has become necessary to edit pictures in Photoshop for them to be considered great? Is it possible to make great photos without retouching them?
I honestly did not know about contests like these (not located in US). I would argue having to pay for these defeats the purpose, especially having social media. So yes I agree with your assessment here. Great video.
I never pay to enter a contest. To me, it's an absolute waste of money and the photography business has become hard enough not to waste money in any mean. You have to pay for your living, home, food, bills and of course, photo gear and everything you ever need to make your customers happy, eventually classes and workshops to improve your photography. Don't waste your money on entering contests. Not only do they steal your money, but if you are selected, they might use your work royalty free. In the end, you are the loser anyway. Audience is great, but audience alone doesn't pay your bills.
One of the issues with contests is that if you submit something and you dont get selected, you dont know why. Sometimes its a technicality, sometims its because the jury didn't liked your work, sometimes its because there was better work... its all highly subjective and the lack of feedback is a big issue for most competitions. I think there is much more value on social media as Ted stated but also on engaging with local communities and get feedback on your work, that is constructive. And thats very hard to get. Most people zap trough photos and only take a few seconds looking at it, if that. And then they just put a Like on what they like. But its all very fast and almost by instinct, than by critical analysis and evaluation. How many of you with an instagram account get bad feedback? Even if its not constructive, bad feedback tells more about your work than Likes on a page. I sure would welcome criticism to my pictures. I would exchange 1 constructive feedback for all of the likes I have on every single photo.
I have to agree with you. Very nicely put. What’s nice about sharing constructive comments on social media is that you can also evaluate the pertinence of the comment - knowing from whom it comes from - because you also have access to their images.
I always welcome a constructive comment but not everyone does (especially when it’s a bad one). I give lots of positive feedback but restrain the negative ones to the people who (I know) will benefit from them. I will submit a bad comment by proposing an alternate solution, i.e. a better way that it might have been done. And if I do not have any suggestion, I will not comment at all (which means that my comment is worthless - there are no benefit to gain).
Some people go beyond sharing their images, they share not only the metadata but how they worked the picture, in-camera and post-processing. Those I really appreciate.
I have found out that whenever I publish an image and was unsure, the feedbacks confirmed my doubts. I have also found out that when I seek to write down what I like in a photograph, I become a better photographer. So my positive feedback serve to show my appreciation to the photographer and serves me as well.
Thanks for sharing your views Joäo!
I Rejean. Thank you for your feedback.
Much obliged Joäo!
I enter a couple local competitions each year because they keep me connected to the local community. But in general I agree with you. It is a mistake to judge your value as an artist by entering contests and we live in a different world.
I find that a lot of competition-winning work nowadays is either trendy (too modern in the sense that it doesn't say much) or extreme (photos from war zones and exotic locales). They're great if your work has those qualities.
I love how personal your videos are. There is an honesty to them that makes them engaging beyond the material.
Never ever pay to get your work published, period. It's supposed to work the other way around.
I've gotten so much work off of my Facebook page and I'm not even that good (in my eyes). Just get your work out there, and if people like it and you have a nice network, they will eventually come to you.
Johnnythefirst "…nice following …" How do you build that from the typical point of having a social network based on your personal society?
When you make the page, you'll have to get a bit personal and ask your friends to like it and maybe invite some people (do this personally). Then you'll just have to come up with content that people feel comfortable liking. I started a semi-humans-of-new-york kind of street portrait series where I asked someone random in my home city a different question every day. These people will often tag themselves, their friends will like the pictures, and then you can invite all the new likes under the pictures to like your page as well by pressing the button next to their name. I got to just under 4.000 fans without pushing it or paying for it, which was more then enough to get work from. I work for travel magazines, but also for the city and the university - both of them give me a lot of jobs on a weekly basis.
The three must do's spreading online:
1. Invite friends and network at first, don't be shy about it. (Even Brandon Stanton asked all of his FB-Friends to like HONY when he started the series five years ago.
2. Post content that people care for, write some interesting or funny stories to go with it, develop a personality.
3. Post consistently.
Johnnythefirst thanks for the tips!
My pleasure! :)
Well made point.
I don't look at photography as a competition at all. I've entered some photography comps and they end up picking the shots that aren't that amazing, with all due respect. But it shouldn't come down to a few judges overwhelmed with thousands of entries. But it did make me rethink my work and get better personally. It didn't necessarily change my technique, but it made me think about what is good to my eye and what do I envision for my future as a photographer. Not to sound deep, but if you don't win those competitions, you still come out of it winning in some way because of the way it makes you reevaluate your place in that world.
Hey Ted, great video. I've witnessed and experienced everything you've mentioned, not just in photography but within other art circles. These are things I've been saying for the last 10-15 years to people.
When it has come to my photography, I've been taking a bit of a different view on things. I've only recently been taking my photography more seriously but I'm also a bit insecure about it. The internet and social media has made it very easy to get, what I would call, bad criticism. When I say that, I mean criticism that isn't constructive in any way. A thumbs up/like, or a "wow!" or "you're such a great photographer" isn't good criticism to me. I think instagram is great for many things but I've also noticed there are a lot of people following you just because they want you to follow them in return, to boost their follower count. They don't care about your work, at least from what I'm seeing. I'd be interested in hearing more about your experiences with social media.
This kind of pushed me into entering a couple of paid, online, competitions over the past year. I also entered 5 photographs into this year's State Fair competition and took home 4 ribbons. I entered out of curiosity and not a desire to "win" though. Even if I didn't win anything, I enjoyed looking at the other entries and I found the experience far more rewarding than seeing another "AMAZING!" comments on a social media post.
Like you said, one must ask ‘What are his intentions?’- Why he wants the ‘attention’.
In today’s world, there are many ways of getting ‘attention’ but if I may be crude, there are so many people that don’t really know ‘What for?’ (besides just showing off) - There must be a meaningful reason for participating in a competition.
First is there a marketing reason?
If not, then you probably are an amateur photographer that has no other ambition but to get a little recognition. Many people would like to be renown as photographers but not many are ready to truly make a living out of it although many amateurs have as good a portfolio as some of the pro photographers. To be a pro photographer, you must have business qualities that aren’t inherent of the art of photography. So is that type of recognition really ’meaningful’ for you? It’s up for you to decide.
If you are a serious photography and looking to make a living out of it, you know this will enrich your portfolio. Has the award any value, not so much as your initial portfolio on a well-planned Website which should better describe who you are and what you do. And your Website contains all the coordinates where you can be reached - it’s your marketing place. In fact, if you win an award this will help redirect potential clients to you Website (or social media platform). But if that Website or platform do not meet the expectations of potential clients than you just worsen your case.
So it’s mostly about investments. Investing your time on an assignment that may or not reflect the work you do. So be sure to choose the competitions, the themes, that will value the type of work you do. Do you really need to pay an entry fee to enter a completion? NO. There are some that are free to enter but maybe judged by lesser professionals. Those might be just what you need to redirect people to your site.
So where should you invest: Building a good website, using social media intelligently, paid contest, free contest? Your first answer should not be any of those. You must first spend time to upgrade your art before publishing any of your work on the Web. Your worst images will invalidate all your good ones. So plan accordingly - curate your own work - and only display those images that reflect the type of work you do now, not the type you once did.
Ted knows people that made it from their Instagram account. I know a few that made it by putting their works on ‘stock photo’. Once they got a name - a reputation, they got clients and started their own business. They only used the platform to get noticed and were ready to jump at any direct propositions from direct clients afterwards.
And never forget that a printed portfolio has much more value when meeting a client.
Competition is surely a way to get notice but it’s short lived. Be sure to have something permanent to show. Besides, having won an award five years ago may not be a good thing to add to your CV - it will only show that you didn’t win anything since!
Well said Ted! Feeling a little better after hearing you talk about it - I've spent a lot of time cutting together work for film festival contests without much luck (while also paying entry fees). In hindsight, sharing work on social media has been much more rewarding :)
I think there's a positive and negative to competition. I grew up playing sports so there might be a bit of that affecting my outlook but if I wanted to become a better tennis player my biggest improvement came from competing against people where I would have to push myself to play my best or I would lose. I don't enter photography competetions with the mindset that it is a failure to lose, rather I look at it as an impetus to push yourself out of your comfort zone. Just entering contests regardless of whether I win or lose has made my work better. If you have to pay a fee per entry even more so. If each entry costs you $35 or $30 or even just $5 your not just going to put any random lazy work that you create. The very act of competing itself can push you to raise your level. This to me is a internal win philosophically regardless of whether I come in 1st or 300th in a contest.
in my experience, putting actual clients on your cv counts for a lot more than 'winning' a competition. loving the channel btw
Hi Ted, wanted to let you know that this is probably the best video i've watched of yours to date. I'm not sure if it was the subject matter necessarily but i found the relationship you have with one of the publications, that came about due to following in your father's footsteps, really breathtaking to watch. I found myself completely taken in by your storytelling. Keep up the great content, yours sincerely, Eoghan - a happy subscriber!
Totally agree Ted, sometime the self gratification can come from not taking the photograph, just seeing the finished result in your mind.
sometimes, contests are just fun.
I think the paid contest was and is designed solely to weed out a lot of potential submissions. Could you imagine the amount of photographers who would enter that contest if it were free? Especially now. That said, I think that a modern competition entry would be done only for some manner of validation, and not exposure. As you said, instagram, and a host of other social media sites are getting way more eyes on them than any publication at the moment.
i feel that photography contests are a bit contrived . i think that one should really focus on learning and challenging oneself to be as great as he or she could be. here's the thing too, i feel that there are too many photographers wanting to produce the same photos as your Alex Webb's and Gordon Parks', but fail to study the elements that helped them get to where they got. make your money, but stay true tony our style and voice .just my thoughts .
Really, really good video. I loved this one. It made me think about things, and not only photography contests. Even in photography we can easily see how much the world is changing. People talk about the loss of jobs, how hard life is, but as you pointed out in your video, we now have social media influencers as well as the rise of the social media industry. I know that is only one example of new jobs, but I think it is quite amazing how doors close on some things in life and then opens up others.
They can be worth it. I have had friends whose whole career kicked off from winning a 'big' competition, this week I ended up a finalist in an Architectural comp which was on the BBC website and that has led to me quoting for some work. Should you rely on them, nope. But are they worth it? Can be. Select a couple that 'fit' you and your style and take it all as a pinch of salt. There are a couple of really big comps like the Sony's that are free and worth a punt. I tend to look at comps that would help my career, will only pay for certain ones, wont pay for ones that ask for e.g.: £30 for first image and £20 for each additional images. You wont get feedback, but if you do make it to a final or winning it can drive a heck of a lot of traffic to your social media accounts/websites
Totally agree with you. Paying for a contest/publication is not the way it should be, but the other way around.
i'm a mixed media artist, but love photography from a spectator's side as i'm not a photographer; however, i can relate and often learn about composition through photography or seeing alternate approaches to presentation. i watch the majority of your videos, including hardware reviews, because i love learning.
*your answer is spot on in this video!* at 5:23, you nail it on the head so well. though commercialism is fine and has its place in art, as artists, we need to define what it's all about _for us_ and in understanding that, we will have a better idea on how to proceed at that crossroad. we need to figure out our intentions and goals. *when we take art out of artwork, it's just work.* if that is the case, we should -sell our tools- re-evaluate our perception.
The biggest problem with the contests is the lack of feedback. I have pretty much given up on them, particularly in light of some of the material that was selected. As you point out, it gravitates towards "fine art", but much of what passes as art these days isn't worthy of publication in my eyes.
I find the lack of feedback frustrating also. I've entered multiple photos into the same contest on several occasions and am always surprised that the judges will pick the one which wasn't the one I considered as being the better one of the entries. I'm happy to have gotten the nod but I'm left perplexed as to why my "top pick" was not theirs.
Competitions like these are important but do have their problems as you have mentioned, particularly paid completions. I myself have entered some competitions but have stopped recently. I think it gets in the way of your creative process and your own development in what ever field of work you are in, the fact that you are simply rejected or accepted into the magazine with no feedback is also a problem for me and is why I submit the bulk of my work to my own Instagram page. Social media sites such as instagram allow a community to be built without the traditional barriers magazines have
Hey don't knock shooting ads for medical trade magazines, they've been paying my rent for years! lol
Sorry about that ;-)
Haha just giving you a hard time. Thanks for the heads up on Communication Arts, it looks like a great publication!
I agree with you 100% I'm so glade you talk about this topic. Having your work judged is dependent solely upon the judges ability to judge and I find they are all over the board. At times their selections just don't make any sense. Example is I entered a color print with great tones of color and got 2nd place. The 1st place selection was a black and white print with a dash of red representing 1% of the print. That made my head spine and I still can't get my head around it so, I stop entering. The judges only comment was I had a nice frame. Great work Ted.
Hey Ted, great video again. How about the photo assignments you talked about, are they still on?
Although I've often toyed with the idea of entering competitions, I've always been dubious about the benefits. I worry I would be more interested in producing photos to meet 'competition standard' than producing photos that represent my own vision and passion for the art. In other words, competitions can end up being about satisfying other people's expectations, and like you say Ted it gives a false sense of your work. I like to produce and promote my work on my terms and a competition would seem unnecessarily restrictive. It was a good episode Ted; some of your best videos are where you are candid and reflective like this. Thanks.
LIKE! A very appropriate comment. Thanks for sharing. I look at these the same way you do...
Not worth it at all, mainly if its money involved!
Eric Rossi that it cost money really is the deciding factor I think...
I have decided not to enter competitions for two reasons. One, I don't think the kind of stuff I love to shoot would win any awards (long exposure black and white cityscapes) and two I'd much rather concentrate on honing my skills and finding my voice, than trying to fit in our shooting specifically so I could win a prize.
Ted, I entered B&W this year due to the audience they market to. I want to get my work in the hands of collects and that's their business. I was featured in a showing in NYC this year and just had a stellar portfolio review that I'm hopeful will get a showing in the near future. I figured it may be time to get collectors putting eyes on my work. As always thanks for the great content. JW Purdy
Kinda counter intuitive that you like seeing all the photos that are featured, but you don't recommend doing them. Someone has to enter them. LOL
thank you for mentioning your personal opinion. i know someone who by chance won a street photography contest in our area. but can't see consistency on his following work and that's fine. what i don't like is he started to think that he is good than the other which i think is not a good sign.
For such discussions - I think it would be great if you could also represent/include people from other sides.
You of course said you've tried:
- Judging
- Entered : didn't win
Maybe interview others who have:
- Entered : Won : Didn't see any benefit
- Entered : Won : Saw significant benefit
Hi Ted, I am late to the party on this video but want to say that I have watched all your videos, liked and shared and occaisionally made a comment. I value your opinion and something you said early in this video really resonated with me. If photography is an art form how can it be judged and compared - to paraphrase. That is my opinion. Someone either likes or doesn't like my art or anyones elses art. I suppose a Facebook 'like' is also a vote so it becomes very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. As you pointed out, it comes down to personal goals. If the ultimate goal is to make money then one has to separate from the herd and gain recognition and have their work judged formally or otherwise aka Facebook. I am an amature and like most people, I do enjoy regonition of my effort. It is a difficult subject with no clear path to a one size solution that fits all. Please keep on keeping on, love you channel and consider you one of my very few photographic gurus.
I have had many compliments on my wildlife photography, but as you said, it's all about social media. I just can't do it. I don't feel comfortable constantly updating, responding, and making videos. You are GREAT at it....but I'm just stuck in the old fashioned world it seems. Still out there getting good images, and that's going to have to be enough for me.
I don't like entering contests. The problem with contests is that it's so subjective on what the judges might like or not like. So you're work may be outstanding but if it's not what they like you don't get picked, which then makes you second guess your work. Then what happens next is even worse. You start creating images that you think the judges will like, instead of images that you like that are in your own style.
Well said! I never thought of it quite like that before.
Few years ago I realised that this whole idea of being successful and respected in photography was my absolute least favourite part of it. I decided that it wasn't the right career for me and also stopped pursuing competitions and stopped trying to network and get into publications. Instead, I now just shoot my work and share it on my blog, my TH-cam page and my website. That is enough for me and I'm way happier not trying to compete. Competitions were 100% not worth feeling like I was crap at my craft (for a price) when the desired outcome was only something I'd been told I should want anyway.
I feel like contests are very subjective and it's rare to see someone with no outside influence to the judges win. There are a handful of talented photographers where I attended school that have won numerous awards at PDN and other outlets but the kicker is also our chair knows everyone in that specific industry as well. An advantage sure, they are still amazing photographers but there is def an advantage if you are in specific circles.
New Mexico has two major photo shows a year, the Shades of Gray B/W show, and the ANMPAS color show. My photos get accepted every year but don't make the front room, nor do the win any awards (even though the get votes). There are two reasons for this. The judges are other amateurs in the club that puts on the show, so they're not experienced in judging. Secondly, from the first, they tend to pick out photos for subjective likes. The other reason is that there are about two dozen amateur photographers in the Albuquerque area that are very good, even better than the pros in the area. Accordingly, I'm picking out my submissions with an dye to not only my best photos, but to the highest emotional content. We'll see how that goes. I'll let you know.
I think if someone want to get in those kinds of publications they have to see it as tools to make more commission work or connections with clients of a ceirtain level and not as an ego booster
I think as long as the cost isn't too prohibitive, it can be worth it. Publications have costs to cover. In the poetry and fiction publication world, writers have to pay to get your manuscript in any decent contests that would lead to publication.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on juried group shows in galleries and museums. These have costs but in my small town, it's the only way to get my work in front of an art audience.
I view publication contests the same way I view county fair contests. It's a challenge, but ultimately meaningless because at the end of the day, it's just someone else's opinion. Learn from the experience if you can and then move on. But above all have fun and put forth your best work.
You are right... things have changed a lot ....
What ever happened to the photo assignments?
indeed.
thank you very much. very helpful content this is! I would request to bring back the "week in pictures" please?
I feel the same way about juried art shows too. Much time and effort (and money) goes in and the results aren't the greatest. My opinion is similar in that you can showcase your work on,one now. It's not easy to gain followers but at least it's a captive audience that you create for yourself.
I think that, if you are happy to give away what ever rights you have to give away on an image for these competitions, then i don't see what wrong with it if you are trying to promote yourself. Also, the self satisfaction aspect of it surely out weights everything else? I mean, i wouldn't find myself thinking i was better than i am, i would just be stoked to have a piece of work published in a publication like that. But hey, i'm just a happy amateur that's happy to get 1 or 2 "likes" on social media now and again.
excellent commentary as usual, thanks!
You're certainly right about the usefulness of social media, but I guess you should be aware of who's judging you're work. Do you reach the right audience? Is the overall public sensible to fine art photography or to bling pictures such as HDR? And if it's not, how could you be sure to make it right? Anyway, thanks for sharing your so pertinent advices.
Thanks Tedd for all videos. I have a question. How can I show my work to people? Social media is great but does it value?
Great advice Ted. like it, share it, and subcribe! ✌
Exactly, that I feel. Thanks Ted ;-)
Great video. When are you doing another event or Meetup in Dallas?
Thanks
I can see how contests for competitive industries like commercial photography can be useful but it seems counterproductive to compete in a field like fine art photography.
How can a committee judge how one conveyed her/his moment's feelings in a photograph?
A committee can only judge the technical aspects, but artistic aspects are personal and can only be appreciated, not judged.. That's my humble opinion.
Well said Ted.
I love your content, but there is a suggestion for you I would like to make: try not to look away from the camera as much as possible, it would make your videos look much better
I just don't think I could put up money get my work seen. I would want to take any money I might have and invest it back into my photography. Cracking social media is plenty for me as I'm already paying for an Internet connection :)
Great video, thanks!
Question is if you pay a submission fee/entry fee for exhibit or contest, do you consider that at the very least "supporting the arts"?
I've entered photos in juried art shows held by a local Arts Council and been picked to participate in group shows, which is an honor of itself and a bit of fun, but as you said the fee paid I see more as supporting that particular group, even if I were not to be picked. People have to realize also that judging and putting on a show or publishing works does cost money and that is where I would suspect the majority of the fees go to.
I'm new so I didn't even know these existed! BUT I do have an Instagram. . . I'm just trying to learn.
yes. I know. but I don't have a website and that is the best format I can think of to share my work now. I really want to have my own website.
Tumblr confuses me. idk about that. I like Instagram because its so easy to share. I'm trying to post more on Flickr.
some are worth it... as a few years ago l entered Intel photography and video competition of videos l make on my utube channel with regards my art in Mendi (body art).. l made up my own video to it... and was quite surprised to have chosen as a semi finalist and than as a Grand Prize Winner.... so rewards are paid off for your hard work... ( l received goods to be worth £3,000 pounds from Intel)......
so your a rockstar right
if you actually get a critique then perhaps it's worth it. if not all you are doing is supporting a lifestyle. be far simpler to send the fee off on its own.
I have a question for you sir I wish you or someone would do a Compition between photographers maybe 6 shooters 3 shooting Jpeg and 3 shooting raw . While I do have a understanding of the difference between the two I think it's the photo not necessarily the the raw file .
A great photo is a great photo . See who get the top votes on the best photo ....
I like this video!
I can't see a meaning behind photo competitions.Photography is an art form it's not a drag race or something.Then what's the point of that?? Of course this is my opinion some will agree and some don't i understand +Ted Forbes
Dance is also an art form but there are competitions. Competitions are a good chance for you to push yourself beyond your limits.
when are u going to do another one of your photo journalism videos?
hey, u shld take a look at streetdreamsmag magazine
contests are funny ....but don't try to make it your bread and butter......that's the best way or my way of looking at it ...... not for recognition but just for the shear excitement ....and energy of being apart of it all...... remember it all about the photography and your art.....not what someone is paying you for....that is the relevance of contests if you do it for any other reason your going to get discouraged and depressed.....I have seen some amazing photos lose compositions so you have to keep that in mind......your going against other artists it's not that there's is better it's that there's is different you know the way they see it face it you know if 100 photographers had the same set you would get 100 different photos it's the artistic impression you leave behind in your photo
Do you think it has become necessary to edit pictures in Photoshop for them to be considered great? Is it possible to make great photos without retouching them?
It's not for me!
I was the one who completed 1000 likes :)
I honestly did not know about contests like these (not located in US). I would argue having to pay for these defeats the purpose, especially having social media. So yes I agree with your assessment here. Great video.
FIRST
I never pay to enter a contest. To me, it's an absolute waste of money and the photography business has become hard enough not to waste money in any mean. You have to pay for your living, home, food, bills and of course, photo gear and everything you ever need to make your customers happy, eventually classes and workshops to improve your photography. Don't waste your money on entering contests. Not only do they steal your money, but if you are selected, they might use your work royalty free. In the end, you are the loser anyway. Audience is great, but audience alone doesn't pay your bills.