Yep. Testing the various trucks on this type of test would be a BIG win for both TFL and for the consumer. I’d wager that this is one of the reasons Toyota re-introduced the external transmission oil cooler on the new Tundra.
Iirc, TFL did so a test like this on the F150 too, and it overheated. Ford responded by saying max towing rating is reduced by altitude. I'm glad to hear GM didn't offer excuses, but went right to work on fixing the problem.
This is the test!!! Forget the IKE! This is why I sold my half ton and switched to a heavy duty. Every one of your trucks needs to go through this torture test! Thanks TFL!!!
That's why it's stupid for people to just go based on advertised towing numbers. A trailer that size should be pulled by a heavy duty. That's too heavy and too tough of a road for a half ton to do. Maybe at 7000 lbs it would have been better. The big question is how are the transfer case temps and diff temps. That rear diff probably took a beating. The good thing though is it's not hard to replace the fluids after a huge tow like that
@@ytjhhh back in the day they were axle ratings. Your standard F150 or ram/GMC/Chevy 1500 are half tons, they used to be rated to carry 1000lbs of weight over the rear axle, that's long since changed but the terms are still used, they claim a half ton is capable of 13000lbs max towing and depending on configuration could be about 2800lbs of payload. F250, and 2500 are 3/4 ton rated to tow 20000ish lbs max around 3500lbs payload depending on configuration . F350 and 3500 are 1 ton that also come in dually 30000+ lbs max and about 4000lbs of payload depending on configuration Heavy duty trucks are generally built for more stressful loads and regular hauling. Their cooling systems, transmissions and differentials are more stout
It'll do about 80 miles fully charged while towing 7000 pounds up on the mountain. Add charging hiccups, I don't see it happening but I'll be happy if they do.
@@paimond223 No tranny, but the battery pack and motor controller electronics need substantial cooling. Is the cooling system up to the task? The fan will now have to do the work natural airflow did at higher speeds.
@@Heath3250 i think gm didn't want to tell them because as soon as they do everyone is gonna want gm to do the fix under warranty. That's a lot of money gm doesn't want to spend.
256°F is overheated in my opinion. Also having the A/C on only keeps the cooling fan running the entire time to cool the a/c condenser which in turn cools the radiator with the transmission cooler in it. The heat that was put into the transmission fluid is a pretty good indication of excessive clutch slippage in the transmission. That's not good for long term reliability.
The only way to make the transmission last longer is to make it shift harder and faster. The problem is most people who buy these trucks want smooth shifts.
Excessive clutch slippage? It's far more likely that the torque converter was slipping which was heating up the fluid. That's a really easy fix, you just have to downshift so the transmission is more likely to lock the converter, but if it can't at least the torque converter doesn't have to slip as much because the gear is doing most of the torque multiplication, that, and with a lower gear, less torque needs to go through the input of the transmission.
If the trans is that hot, I would certainly hope that GM is smart enough to run the fans without having the AC on. I have never seen an application in a truck where having the AC on didn’t lower the cooling potential of the radiator/trans cooler, other than in remote cooler setups.
I bet the "undisclosed fix" was simply ecu programming to keep the warning from showing up. Anything over 230* is too high, no exceptions. It needs additional fluid cooling.
No, the warning isn't programmed to come on until ~270F. Been this way for years. 255F < 270F. Not sure why people are making false assumptions when it's easy to disprove. Modern transmissions and synthetic fluids are able to handle the higher temps without issue. This isn't the 1970s.
I know a guy who owns a large transmission shop. He was telling me they're having these new chevys come in like clockwork with transmission issues and there's big parts delays on them.
I’m a gm service advisor and this is sadly true. ALL 8sp trans across the GM lineup have issues with torque converters and the trucks are the worst. V6 A8 Camaros are getting really bad too.
Great video. That was a mixed result. It did better but if you had to drive much further, it would have failed again. If this isn't too far from where you guys work, you should add this road to your towing test. Or at least do some other trucks to see if they have similar problems. Thanks guys
They did in the previous segment this is just a follow up because the chevy kept overheating the ford overheated as well but they never stopped they kept pushing it to the end.
Ford, Chevy,ram, it doesn’t matter what your preference is what your father drove. They can all have issues and problems. I have a 22 mega cab ram with the 6.4 and so far so good.
255 is just too hot, sorry you guys are celebrating while the trans is screaming. The half tons can pull that but they aren’t designed to do it regularly or in adverse conditions like your slow speed ascent which taxes the torque converter and sheers fluid at a rate that the coolers just cannot remove heat at. If the convertor could have locked in 1 st and 2 nd you’d had a lot cooker running trans for sure.
Are you a mechanical engineer who specializes in transmission design? In the February 2011 issue of Trailer Life magazine RV Clinic in response to a reader about the maximum transmission temperature allowed in a 2009 Chevy Silverado, the Tech Team had this response. “General Motors’ in-house towing team expert provided RV Clinic with this statement: The maximum allowable automatic transmission fluid temperature is dictated by the transmission oil itself. The oil begins to degrade significantly above 270 degrees Fahrenheit, so we design vehicles so that in all but the most extreme conditions, the fluid temperature in the transmission sump stays below 270 degrees F. We allow for up to 285 degrees F in extreme conditions (i.e. towing a trailer with combination loaded at GCWR in Death Valley). But for customer usage anywhere else in the country, even at GCWR, transmission sump temperature should stay well below 270 degrees F. Above this point, certain internal components, such as seals, begin to disintegrate rather quickly. Although newer synthetic fluids can withstand higher temperatures we still recommend this (270F) as a maximum temperature. "
@Defective Degenerate You do realize the trans temp in the first video was 275+F and it only hit 255F in this video, right? Modern GM truck transmissions don't start alerting for trans temp until around/just over 270F. So no, Chevy did nothing like what you're suggesting.
@Defective Degenerate because just like all their other 10 speeds that have had this exact problem to fix is a replacement torque converter but by the time it's identified by the customer typically it requires an entire transmission replacement and there is no long-term solution if the customer continues to tell with it it will continue to give him problems.
@@gogofastful I don't believe this one bit and the biggest reason why is because although they can say that all they want that's for that one event so that one day but what is the long-term damage done to the fluid cuz I'll tell you right now that even Allison's fluid if you run them that hot you have to replace it after that event. So for instance like they did here in this test if they don't replace that transmission fluid they will continue to have overheating issues with the fluid because the fluid has lost its ability to perform as expected anything over 190° starts to destroy transmission fluid that's why even on GM's owner's manual if you tow they make you replace it every 45,000 miles (which by the way I got a quote from the dealer and it is $675 for transmission fluid replacement)...... If you're towing like they are here and letting it get this hot you're going to be doing that every single time you go out to tow. There's a reason that most manufacturers of heavy duty transmissions recommend temps below 190 it's for fluid longevity your fluid will last forever if you don't heat cycle it. as will the seals in your transmission the more you heat cycle the seals the brittle or they get the worse they seal. That's before you get to the fact that all of these new trucks have super soft aluminum valve bodies that are built into the case if you warp them from excessive heat cycling you have to replace the entire unit it is not rebuildable at that point.
The 10 speed has the ability to lock the converter in first and second gear however I Believe programming dictates that it won't lock in first but it will in second.
Perhaps GM just reprogrammed the TCM's high temp threshold a bit higher so it didn't throw the alarm as fast. That would be the GM way to "fix it" lol.
First, awesome video, Andre and Nathan. Got to love the haters that have no experience driving a proper truck. My stock 2020 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3l V8, 8-speed & 9,500 lbs towing capacity has NEVER let me down. I tow several trailers of different sizes and weigh across different terrain. Two biggest: 6,800 lbs travel trailer thought South Dakota’s Black Hills and 8,800 lbs travel trailer across Kansas and back. Both times: 0 brake downs. Engine temp did rose above nominal temp to about 220 and trans temp stayed below 250. From MY experience, GM knows how to build proper and reliable trucks.
This has to become one of your standard tests with every truck you test. Specifically in the summer you guys need to get ahold of the trucks again and run them through here. Great review and video.
Awesome post I was wondering what happened with this truck last year. I think tfl needs to start testing every truck in the summer up this stretch of highway in the summer too.
That trip is tough not allowing the torque converter lockup will cause the rising temps. I own GM trucks but officially the cooling system was failing. I would have stopped a 250 if it was my truck. Like to compare to other manufacturers before the bad grade tho. Had a 2019 f150 that i would need to lockout the gears to stop shifting or it would start rising. I bet locking out the gears to hold 4k so the tc can lockup would have dropped temp. Goes to show you you still can't be a dumb-a while towing.
Exactly. An unlocked torque converter can generate a crap ton more heat than a trans cooler can be expected to reject. Dropping a gear and locking the torque converter I'll bet would've kept the temp barely above normal.
I looked for towing instruction before I started towing my 5000 lb camper with my 2016 chevy silverado 2500. Couldn't find anything. So I just let it do want it wants. How do you know when to put in in M and pick a geer and which geer to pick? What rpm should it run at? I was nervous before, but got more nervous when my transmission burned up on the flat and I had to replace the transmission, radiator, and transmission cooler. They said something fell apart in the radiator and clogged it.
Agreed; towing 101, 1st step is put in tow/haul mode, 2nd step, lock out all overdrive gears ( 2016 Silverado w/6 speed tranny) M5 at least, lock out 6th gear, even 5th or 4th in lower speeds. Keep it from excessive shifting!!! I’ve done that with all my trucks, no matter what brand (Fords, Chevys, Dodge makes no difference.
I always manually shift when on grades. I put my F150 in manual and lock it into a gear. The constant shifting creates a lot of heat. I wouldn’t let the temps go over 230 in my truck.
I lock out 6th in tow haul, pulling 6k lbs TT with ‘12 F-150 5.0 in 90 degree heat and it never goes beyond normal trans temp. Did this when I noticed 6th was nearly useless towing, why stress the trans? Good to know on the torque converter with the gear lockout.
I love all that I see on your channel! You guys do real world testing that sets you above the rest. The scenery in Colorado is also beautiful to put it mildly; it even rivals my home Canadian province of British Columbia! What's not to like? Thank you my friends.
'Resolve' the issue by raising the temp warning alert. And if it results in premature tranny failure, well, it lasted the expected life. Regardless of how many miles it had.
I had a 5.3 with max tow. My tranny Temps stayed at normal levels, but the tranny gave me other problems like hard shifting, shuddering. I ditched the half ton, upgraded to Duramax/Allison, and I'm not looking back. The Allison tranny is amazing.
@@rocketj7449 Eeek, shifts like butter = clutches slipping and torque converter slipping....smooth shifts in a tow rig aren't your friend, you want a crisp firm shift, not slipping clutch packs.
TfL , this is the ultimate test for any truck, while ike is tough and all , it is no match to this one , please keep doing more tests on this trail. Can you test the twin turbo tundra and ford , let us see how they fair on the same trail
This is a much harder towing test than the Ike. I said it the last time and I still stand by it. Low speeds and curves are much harder on the tow vehicle than flat out wide open runs. This also demonstrates the limits of towing with a 1/2 ton. They can do it in a pinch but if you’re going to tow a lot or long distances you need to step up to a 3/4 ton minimum. Now me personally on a road like that I would probably put the transmission in manual mode and put it in 3rd or 4th to limit it’s shifting. That would cause more rpm’s and maybe heat up the motor a little more but it would help the transmission. I know that’s not how you conduct these test but I feel like that would be fair since in the real world that’s what people do. It’s why they have the manual mode or gear limiter if you want to call it that.
yeah, I just recently was stuck behind a truck going through the Rockies in Montana....we were at about 20 mph in 3rd gear towing about 6k# and the trans hot up to 232°. Once I sped up into higher gear it cooled back down to 214°
This 1/2 ton can out tow 3/4 tons from 20 and maybe even years ago and do it with less problems. Everyone always says 3/4 ton is needed but it also depends on how old of one.
@@jameshowey9958 maybe but the type of trailer is more important than anything else. I’ll agree modern 1/2 tons have more power and even better brakes than older 3/4 tons but they still don’t have better axles and tires. The size and type of trailer is a greater determining factor to what size truck you need though. Open trailers and a lot of boats are perfectly fine to tow with a 1/2 ton. But big boats and almost any enclosed trailer or camper really needs atleast a 3/4 ton. Like an enclosed trailer or camper that weighed 9600 pounds like this test had would be way too much for any 1/2 ton. Really the weight wouldn’t matter too much in that type of trailer. Once you start approaching 28-30’ box length that’s too much for a 1/2 ton. Now I know people will say I tow a 30’ camper but they measure those from the rear bumper to the tongue. So most of the time a 30’ camper is actually like 25’ or 26’ box length. But even that is pushing it especially at Interstate speeds.
@@jameshowey9958 there are a lot of factors....but you're mostly right. I still have a 1968 F350 with an old straight 6 and 4spd manual that will tow 20k#, but it is not going to tow even 10k# at highway speeds like a new 1/2 ton from any manufacturer
Just went thru the desert of southern California and Arizona yesterday with my 2019 Silverado with a 5.3 and 8 speed transmission. I was towing my 4k pound travel trailer. At the hottest point, the outside temp got up to 105. My max transmission temp was 207. The average trans temp was running about 197. Just an FYI.
256° is still really hot, despite no warnings(are we sure that GM simply didn't recalibrate the warning to not come on?). You have to take into account fluid breakdown and the shortening of the life of the transmission. I don't recommend such an extreme condition on owners with their personal trucks IF you plan on keeping them. As has been stated, I'd love to see the same test on a Ram 5.7 and Ford 5.0 with their equivalent tow packages.
GM doesn't alert for trans temp in modern GM trucks until ~270F. Been this way for years. The trans fluid is fully synthetic and can deal with the temps. I see a lot of "old school" people trying to apply 1970s transmission fluid and design limits to current vehicle and you just cannot compare them anymore.
@@dieseldrax 270° is simply too high for transmission internals, no matter how "synthetic" the fluid is. And this isn't just to rag on GM. Toyota experienced a similar issue on Tundras once they removed the trans coolers. And to be fair, I think this is more of a tuning issue with GMs transmission torque converter not locking soon enough, which can explain the rapid heating of the trans.
@@dieseldrax Doesn't matter what year it is, the friction clutches in a transmission don't take kindly to heat, neither does the aluminum casings....just ask your local transmission shop if its ok to run your transmission at 300+ degrees because you have synthetic ATF. Wait, they'll say its fine they want your transmission rebuilt after you've toasted the transmission.
Why the ford 5.0? They were using a GM 6.2 big block which is their tow motor. It would be appropriate to use the 3.5 ecoboost. It’s already shown to outperform either the GM or Ram motors. I can see including the 5.0 if your only goal is to show its capability over other small block motors.
Slower speed climbs where software doesn't lock TC clutch are a challenge for all. I would think a 10 speed would have tc lock and/or choose a higher gear. The off the line response is much better with a tc with higher stall speed but that "loose" torque converter allows much more fluid churn and heat if the gear chosen is too high (5th instead of 4th, not ratio). GM loves to get high torque motors into the upper gears too soon unless you take throttle to a much higher opening. If you do that and then unlock tc clutch the fluid churn pumps up the temp. The fix they did to this trucknwas likely only software.
JUNK! Still “overheated”!!!! Gm probably reprogrammed the pcm so it doesn’t throw a light or warning. These guys ain’t that dumb they know it failed but are playing it off like it didn’t. Pretty sad
So basically GM just disabled all the high temp messages. That ultra low viscosity fluid that they use is too thin and more geared toward gas mileage than anything else. Bet those temps would be considerably better with Amsoil SS or even Valvoline Maxlife ATF.
Always do the like towing reviews in summer. I love it. Who wants to spend 75 to 100k plus for state if the art new trucks that cannot tow max load over the continental divide? Buying a truck that prohibits you from max towing for 3 months out of the year is unacceptable. I'm convinced you guys have affected how the big 3 test and design trucks because of the Ike in particular. I would be very proud of you if, every truck from Detroit can max tow in temps up to 115 degrees over they Ike because of your "world's toughest towing test" reviews. World's toughest means just that. It's cooling man, not rocket science. That can figure it out. Upgrading the heat exchange capacity isn't a super hard thing to do. It's 2022 Detroit!! Get it together! You can do it!
I have a 24 Trail boss 2.7, not the ideal max towing set up. I just pulled a big steel trailer with utv, boat , motor and canoe , plus a 700lb atv in the bed, and four adults in the cab. 1500 miles up and down pretty big hills. Was near the max payload for the truck and towing around 5500. Never saw a trans temp above 220 even though it was 85 outside. That’s good enough for me. Put the truck in 2nd or 3rd and held it.
Man! 255° would make me nervous. I get that there was no warning light or anything but that seems excessively warm. I know even Toyota says it's ok to get that hot but damn. I still try to stay under 200° when I tow.
I like most all of your videos. However, sitting through almost 6 minutes of product placement and straight up advertising is a lot. Good video, but this one seems to have a LOT of product placement and advertising.
I think I would have to agree with everyone else that truck failed that test cause 230 degrees is failing far as transmission temp but man 255 degrees is really pushing it I would of stopped at 230 degrees
That converter clutch never locked up, so the constant fluid coupling creates alot of heat, the torque converter is the number one contributor of heat in a automatic transmission. Plus since theres such a difference in speed between the turbine and the impeller, the stator is constantly multiplying torque and that heats it up even more.
Glad GM fixed the issue, curious to know if it was a programming issue or defect somewhere, like some machining debris or flashing restricting flow through the transmission cooler. 255F is still pretty hot but not a big deal for a short period of time. The factory trans fluid is synthetic and GM truck transmissions have been programmed to alert around 270F for years. Not sure why there are multiple comments from folks saying GM just disabled the warning when it's clear the trans is running cooler than in the original video. Also, can't apply transmission temp limits from decades ago to today. The old charts showing that fluid life is cut in half for every 20F over 175F simply doesn't apply today, with newer materials, synthetic fluids, improved designs, etc today's transmissions can handle a lot more load and heat than 20+ years ago. Folks have to get with the times and start getting comfortable with the new normal. Not to mention there are some trucks that have thermostats in the transmission cooler lines that force the transmission to run over 200F under normal conditions.
GM 6, 8, 10 speed autos in half tons 2014 - current have the thermostat just outside the transmission that keeps it in a closed loop until a specified temp. Called the pill, when it opens at specified temp probably 180 - 200 degrees then trans fluid then flows to the cooler which is shared with the ac condenser. Several manufacturers do this today. One part does double duty. My guess is GM either replaced the trans thermostat because it was malfunctioning (not opening) or out in a lower temp transmission (pill) thermostat.
I just wish they said in the manual what temps should be. Like between a-b for regular driving and c-d for loads. And stay below z or shortened life. All my Silverado book states is to check oil levels between 160-200 degrees. Gives us just to guess which seems pretty poor for a $40k+ tool. I can’t even find any info online from the manufacturer, again poor!
My 2021 2.7 8spd trans is normally in 190 to 200 with no traffic not towing nothing, 205 just sitting in traffic. My transmisson has been rebuilt from the dealer at 1700 miles. I have 19k miles now.
My Titan XD towing over 7k ik the west tx heat never got over 200 on the transmission temp except whem passing or heavy throttles. On regular cruise it stayed below 200 degrees despite the ambient air temperature of 104.
Routinely pull about 7000 pounds with my 6.2 L trail boss. And that’s here in Texas and I’ve never had a transmission get close to as hot as your readings were. 240 is high as I’ve seen even in 100° heat.
I had a new Chevy truck leave me stranded once. The problem was loose bolts on the front ring gear. Took several weeks to get a replacement front diff after it popped the loose bolt out the side. It was a manufacturing issue effecting several trucks. I would not be surprised if this was something similar with that truck and they just wouldn't tell you.
All of the 10 speed auto transmissions run hotter. They are designed to do so and that's why they use a different fluid. With that being said we always put an external cooler on them separate from the engine coolant setup to bring the temps way down and lower the chances of burning the clutches up in performance applications. Designed for the temps or not, the higher temps don't make me feel good. The external cooler drops the temps way down which doesn't cause any performance issues. The only significant downside is the trans takes significantly longer to come up to operating temps which is often as low as 130-140°F
They use a low viscosity fluid, nothing new, they've been doing that for over a decade...it has nothing to do with temperature/cooling it has to do with trying to get a vehicle to get the best fuel economy possible for EPA ratings...in the long term, it means shorter lives of vital components....its like running today's vehicles with water thin oils....it don't protect the engine as well, but hey it gave them a 1/2 a MPG better for the EPA testing.
They obviously shut off the warning messages and chimes. Thats all they did. They need to change the Tow/Haul mode to hold gears instead of constantly shifting.
255 is crazy high…! Chewing up its transmission for sure - I have a feeling it wasn’t designed for this much towing, did Andre talk about the external temperature during the prev test and new test?! I tots missed….highly doubt this truck would make it if it 110F outside. TFL- let’s test some of the other trucks here?!
I was having this problem towing a 7,500 lbs travel trailer… even in the “Florida mountains”. Had to install the little thermostat bypass to the transmission. Now it doesn’t go over 195.
I did the same on my 2016 Silverado 1500. 7500 lb trailer in VA mountains, my temps were reaching 225. I installed the new upgraded thermo by pass valve and it is staying below 190.
255 is way to hot for my liking. GM makes a different bypass valve to lower tranny temps. Put one on my 2018 and the highest i have seen since is 172. Shouldn’t have to do that (C’MON gm) but at least it’s available.
that truck still failed if that hill was a half mile longer you would have gotten the warnings again. In all fairness that test is more extreme than the IKE. low speed low airflow considerably more gear shifting and my guess is the torque converter was not locked adding to the heat soak, in that situation your better off switching to manual mode and leaving the truck in 1 gear for the entire pull keeping the engine around 3000-4500 rpm. GM rates their trucks tow rating for every situation, where ford says to take 2% off of GCW for every 1000ft of elevation, I wonder which is the better option? it would be interesting to take an F150 up the same road and see how it does considering the transmission was co-developed with gm. At the end of the day it is still a half ton towing to the extreme in the mountains while 1/2 tons of today are amazing they're still going to have limitations.
The reason Ford says to lower the rating is because gas engines take a performance hit as the altitudes climb, due to lower air pressure. Lower air pressure, lower fuel to air ratio. Making the engine and stuff work harder to accomplish the same task. The Lightning has no such problems due to not needing combustion, and the Ecoboost series engines aren't as faulted due to the very nature of turbos, cramming more air into cylinders (but they're still at the mercy of physics).
Nate... the bigger the battery, the less friendly it is on the environment... that Rivian ain't very friendly at all. Very little so. It's cool, not better... u know dis...
I think all these newer 1/2 ton trucks are having overheating issues because the manufacturers are pushing the vehicles to the limits, the engines put out alot more power than they used to, they intentionally make everything run hotter for increased efficiency and rate them to tow more. There is just less of a window between normal operating temperature and overheating since they make them run warm to begin with.
I'd be more interested in you repeating this test with a different off-the-lot Chevy instead of one the GM press department had specially "fixed" for your test.
Andre, I have a 2009 Chevy 2500HD that I use daily for towing RVs and goosenecks for work. Here in Texas it gets very hot and we do have 6 & 7% grade hills. The transmission does get hot but GM doesn't give a redline. What is too hot? When do you pull over with a truck that doesn't tell you to? 240? 250? Thank you, Toby
Sooo, Chevy changed their over heat settings?? lol What was the temp it failed at last time and how hot were the testing days??? Curious minds wanna know. :)
The Ford Authority reports the new Ranger will hit the order banks around July 18th and I was wondering when you guys talk about this if you could go into the Probe Ford done to investigate the MPG reporting to the government. I would also like to hear what you think about the 2023 ranger MPG.
No one is talking about the fact of the truck being in 4WD is likely more strain on the transmission, which equals more heat. Torque converter puts out the most heat and being low speed towing it will build up heat very rapidly. They need to change the thermal bypass valve to lower temp on the "max towing". Unfortunately I believe on the 10 speed it is internal to the valve body, unlike the 6 and 8 speed that are external.
It's funny how the Climate change folks suggest buying electric vehicles, but fail to realize what goes into the process of making the batteries alone...mining the material, moving the material from the mining location to the processing plant, processing it, shipping the finished product around the world, trucking them from the ports to the stores...also, how is the electricity that is used to charge the batteries produced? Often coal. wind mills? Unreliable, and how are the produced, used and disposed of?. then there's the disposal aspect of the batteries after a relatively short service life compared to gas or diesel engines.
@@mudddge Disclaimer, None of the following is meant in a derogatory or disrespect manner. It's meant to be thought provoking in a civil way, to possibly learn something new and see things from a different perspective). I wouldn't say it's entirely a scam, although there are a lot of aspects about the push to go electric that raise some questions. Look at the the resources that go into the creation of the batteries and support equipment, (chargers for the home, office, rest stops/gas stations). What about the processes used to refine raw materials into usable construction materials and equipment needed to build and maintain these charging stations? some people have said that due to the instant torque (which is awesome) and the added weight of the batteries, the tires tend to wear out sooner, requiring new tires and disposal of the old tires, which consumes more resources and creates more pollution...On paper (at least for the end user). Electric vehicles seem better for the environment and give people a warm and fuzzy feeling, but, looking at the big picture, they seem to be far from it. Stay safe out there.
I'm guessing that keeping the engine at a RPM would keep the transmission a bit cooler since more oil and maybe coolant is pumped around. It wouldn't fix it, but my guess would be that it would run a bit cooler..
Yea...they added a transmission oil cooler and gave it back... Try buying one from the dealer without the Trans cooler and it will be the same as before..
While it is cool that Chevy fixed this truck, and then gave it back to test. It would be nice to know what they did to the transmission. Was it software related? Or something physical in the transmission? Did they add a bigger tranny cooler? Or, did they just replace the entire transmission?
Anytime I'm towing I always have the transmission temperature gauge on and anytime temperature gets even close to 245 I would pay extra attention to what I'm doing letting it get that hot is kind of ridiculous . I chose 16000 pounds every day and have I've never seen it get hotter than 237 and that's in the mountains of Western North Carolina. Only time I've seen temp as high as 237+ was with a 9' snowplow on the front( blocks radiator etc) and had 3 yards of chat/salt mix in the slat spreader n the bed.
As someone that works at a Chevy dealership, 255 is way to hot, most of the vehicles I have seen the warning like comes on about 245 to 250 so I honestly agree with some of these comments saying that the dealership messed with the system, do not let the transmission get that hot
Once that trans overheated it was game over for that trans. Something went awry with the setup. Like I said on the other vid. I've pulled th guts out of the two I owned. Never got over 195... and I took a pic of that cause that was out of character for it. Normal driving was 155 or so.. if I saw 210 I would have started freaking out.
that's a pretty extreme pull at low speeds with very low air flow thru the rad and cooling package. I doubt many owners are going to do this often or ever and I wouldn't blame any manufacturer to come back and say that wasn't reasonable for a half ton. At low speeds the torque converter doesn't reach lock up mode which means slippage and massive heat build up. That was diesel 2500 territory in my opinion
Sadly, they may have just re-calibrated the temperature sensor for the transmission while making no physical changes. Did you guys physically measure the case temperature of the transmission with a infrared gauge? I would’ve been much more impressed if they had explain the issue and how they resolved it.
Probably just flushed the fluid, case temps never are accurate, the aluminum tends to displace the heat. You'd actually have to physically measure the fluid temps
Thanks guys,i was disappointed when the best offerd gm 1/2 ton failed.This time i was hoping nothing over 225*.AS a GM now gm loyalist,ive seen nothing but market share loss,its for many reasons,it starts at the top,thanks Mary
Even though the warning lights did not come on ... From the looks of it the engine RPM was to low , We always would have guys burn up the tranny's in offroad racing cause they would stay at a low RPM and the transmissions like higher RPM to cool off and engines like lower RPM to stay cool. Maybe Chevy can have the computers Tow/haul mode setting could be changed to have the truck down shift sooner to keep RPM up and the tranny at a slight bit lower temp Everyone thinks they are going to break the engine if they rev it up And peak torque is 4100 rpm for 6.2 L for those who think that 2500 to 3K range is where were it needs to be......and not saying Andre has to have the truck at 4100 the entire time
I’d never tow the max with my 2022 1500, that’s why I have a 2021 3500 diesel…. I’ll never understand why people do that. What do you expect it’s a Fn half ton
Good video. Mfg's need to be kept honest with videos like this. I do however agree with alot of others. When in the mountains, turn off the overdrive gears that use the torque converter. I still have an older 6 speed auto trans truck. I lock out the torque converter and run in 4th gear in the mountains, my trans temps are much cooler doing this. Engine will rev higher, and you will use more gas, but it is much easier on the trans and atf fluid.
by nature of the beast the transmissions will always heat up in situations like that, my power wagon heats up pulling steep grades but stays well within the operational limits. good job on chevy taking that truck, fixing it, and giving the EXACT truck back to you to torture test again.
@@oakleyfreak45 The last time the temperature had pegged at 300 so they definitely fixed it. No matter what truck you're driving you cannot have the transmission stay at around town temperatures when you're pulling steep grades in the mountain
Since the transmission cooler and ac condenser are one part that does double duty, temps should be lower if they weren’t using the AC. But that is a hell of a load at low speed with torque converter unlocked which produces massive amounts of heat.
@@thelaw300 it also has a lot to do with the torque converter lock up. Back in the 90s when Ford came out without electronic E4 OD that was one of the stabilizing factors in the transmission. When the torque converter locked up especially in second gear many folks thought it was another gear. But it wasn’t. If Ford still sets up the electronics in a similar fashion it will help keep the transmission so much cooler.
Static fan is a must when towing. Dual electric fans fine for driving in traffic with AC on. Two GM examples 1. 08 Suburban 1500 3.73 gears U-Haul car trailer towing Audi A4 with dual electric fans. Grade to rest area heading south from Pocatello Idaho to Rest Area at Summit. Vehicle approached similar temps with concern and took and took a good while to cool down fluids. 2. 08 Suburban HD 3.73 gears same trailer car combo same scenario. No concern with overheating with Static fan which pulls more air at speed just like a Semi. If I recall both trips around 85 degree's plus or minus a few. Now preferably I would have static fan and add an auxiliary electric fan like the 90"s duallys had. Physics are Physics and new is not always better just did a test with HD with 6.0 no AFM still gets 18/20 mpg from North of LA to San Diego at 65 mph.
By far a better test. Also would like to see it idle on the summit and see how well the truck can manage to bring the temps down within a 10min time frame
Sounds like this should be added as part of towing testing. Not just the IKE.
Freeway towing is not a towing test at all. Try Priest Grade for paved towing. And thousands of mountain roads and trails.
I agree!
You are right sir
Yes test more trucks !
Agreed 👍
Should make this route part of the normal tow testing. I would like to see the difference between other manufacturers.
I'd definitely like to see how a Toyota with no transmission cooler would do on it.
You guys should test a Ford, a Ram, and a Tundra with the same conditions. A 255 trans temp seems really high to me.
You are correct. That 255 degrees temp on the fluid is WAY too hot. GM has failed on this truck.
@@JohnSmith-ug5ci whats new?
Yep. Testing the various trucks on this type of test would be a BIG win for both TFL and for the consumer. I’d wager that this is one of the reasons Toyota re-introduced the external transmission oil cooler on the new Tundra.
Agreed that's way too high, definitely going to replacing torque converters.
Iirc, TFL did so a test like this on the F150 too, and it overheated. Ford responded by saying max towing rating is reduced by altitude. I'm glad to hear GM didn't offer excuses, but went right to work on fixing the problem.
This is the test!!! Forget the IKE! This is why I sold my half ton and switched to a heavy duty. Every one of your trucks needs to go through this torture test! Thanks TFL!!!
That's why it's stupid for people to just go based on advertised towing numbers. A trailer that size should be pulled by a heavy duty. That's too heavy and too tough of a road for a half ton to do. Maybe at 7000 lbs it would have been better.
The big question is how are the transfer case temps and diff temps. That rear diff probably took a beating. The good thing though is it's not hard to replace the fluids after a huge tow like that
What is a heavy duty
@@ytjhhh Generally speaking... in terms of consumer vehicles. Not big rigs. I'm referring to a full size truck that's a 250/2500, 3/4 ton and up.
@@ytjhhh back in the day they were axle ratings. Your standard F150 or ram/GMC/Chevy 1500 are half tons, they used to be rated to carry 1000lbs of weight over the rear axle, that's long since changed but the terms are still used, they claim a half ton is capable of 13000lbs max towing and depending on configuration could be about 2800lbs of payload. F250, and 2500 are 3/4 ton rated to tow 20000ish lbs max around 3500lbs payload depending on configuration . F350 and 3500 are 1 ton that also come in dually 30000+ lbs max and about 4000lbs of payload depending on configuration
Heavy duty trucks are generally built for more stressful loads and regular hauling. Their cooling systems, transmissions and differentials are more stout
I'd like to see how well the battery cooling in the F150 Lightning does on this same tow.
First the F150 Lightning should be able to make it to the road and return to a charging station, the battery range towing is low.
It'll do about 80 miles fully charged while towing 7000 pounds up on the mountain. Add charging hiccups, I don't see it happening but I'll be happy if they do.
@@professorsergio3819 it did 80 miles towing on average highway towing a 5000 lb travel trailer it would go 25 miles after this
No tranny to cool, so I can't imagine it would fate poorly... Besides the range hit
@@paimond223 No tranny, but the battery pack and motor controller electronics need substantial cooling. Is the cooling system up to the task? The fan will now have to do the work natural airflow did at higher speeds.
So did GM fix the problem, or did they simply set the warning threshold higher?
Considering the fact that gm wouldn't say exactly what the problem was, it's definitely possible.
Probably threshold because it got pretty hot
😂😂😂
Well not that. Temp is 255 vs 300. I would like to know though. Kind of defeats the purpose to not know.
@@Heath3250 i think gm didn't want to tell them because as soon as they do everyone is gonna want gm to do the fix under warranty. That's a lot of money gm doesn't want to spend.
256°F is overheated in my opinion. Also having the A/C on only keeps the cooling fan running the entire time to cool the a/c condenser which in turn cools the radiator with the transmission cooler in it. The heat that was put into the transmission fluid is a pretty good indication of excessive clutch slippage in the transmission. That's not good for long term reliability.
The only way to make the transmission last longer is to make it shift harder and faster. The problem is most people who buy these trucks want smooth shifts.
@@CaptainRudy4021 Agreed too bad GM doesn't sell a manual anymore.
Excessive clutch slippage? It's far more likely that the torque converter was slipping which was heating up the fluid. That's a really easy fix, you just have to downshift so the transmission is more likely to lock the converter, but if it can't at least the torque converter doesn't have to slip as much because the gear is doing most of the torque multiplication, that, and with a lower gear, less torque needs to go through the input of the transmission.
If the trans is that hot, I would certainly hope that GM is smart enough to run the fans without having the AC on.
I have never seen an application in a truck where having the AC on didn’t lower the cooling potential of the radiator/trans cooler, other than in remote cooler setups.
Clutches aren’t slipping dude.
I bet the "undisclosed fix" was simply ecu programming to keep the warning from showing up. Anything over 230* is too high, no exceptions. It needs additional fluid cooling.
No, the warning isn't programmed to come on until ~270F. Been this way for years. 255F < 270F. Not sure why people are making false assumptions when it's easy to disprove.
Modern transmissions and synthetic fluids are able to handle the higher temps without issue. This isn't the 1970s.
Modern transmission fluid can easily withstand temps of 230+. Where are you getting your info?
@@dieseldrax this is wrong…the warning showed up last time at 245F and power got reduced…
What the dude is saying here might be tots true
@@multivisao No it didn't, it was 300 degrees. when the truck pulled power and had Andre pull over
I know a guy who owns a large transmission shop. He was telling me they're having these new chevys come in like clockwork with transmission issues and there's big parts delays on them.
I've got one now stuck in 3rd gear and major delays on parts NC
I’m a gm service advisor and this is sadly true. ALL 8sp trans across the GM lineup have issues with torque converters and the trucks are the worst. V6 A8 Camaros are getting really bad too.
@@Fastzeefo just the 8 speeds? I have a GM 6 speed, 3500, and the new Ford/GM 10 speed....both have done extremely well for me
@@workct4102 The 8 speeds were only in the 1500 trucks. Your 6 speed is much more robust designed for heavy duty cycles.
@@workct4102 you have nothing to worry about 6sp hd trans don’t have any issues
Generally you’d be cautious about towing more lug nuts than you’re driving but, that aluminum trailer is very light for the size.
Great video. That was a mixed result. It did better but if you had to drive much further, it would have failed again. If this isn't too far from where you guys work, you should add this road to your towing test. Or at least do some other trucks to see if they have similar problems. Thanks guys
I'd like to see this with the equivalent Ford or Dodge just to make sure.
My 1500 ram tans never overheated the transmission but it didn't like towing
Josh would tow with a mythical truck (maybe just maybe he meant fiat Ram duh 🙄)
They did in the previous segment this is just a follow up because the chevy kept overheating the ford overheated as well but they never stopped they kept pushing it to the end.
Ford, Chevy,ram, it doesn’t matter what your preference is what your father drove. They can all have issues and problems. I have a 22 mega cab ram with the 6.4 and so far so good.
Few passes like that and that transmission will be fried
256 is a pass? Yeah that thing failed again. TFL you should try a similar but different Silverado for that test.
255 is just too hot, sorry you guys are celebrating while the trans is screaming. The half tons can pull that but they aren’t designed to do it regularly or in adverse conditions like your slow speed ascent which taxes the torque converter and sheers fluid at a rate that the coolers just cannot remove heat at. If the convertor could have locked in 1 st and 2 nd you’d had a lot cooker running trans for sure.
Are you a mechanical engineer who specializes in transmission design?
In the February 2011 issue of Trailer Life magazine RV Clinic in response to a reader about the maximum transmission temperature allowed in a 2009 Chevy Silverado, the Tech Team had this response.
“General Motors’ in-house towing team expert provided RV Clinic with this statement: The maximum allowable automatic transmission fluid temperature is dictated by the transmission oil itself. The oil begins to degrade significantly above 270 degrees Fahrenheit, so we design vehicles so that in all but the most extreme conditions, the fluid temperature in the transmission sump stays below 270 degrees F.
We allow for up to 285 degrees F in extreme conditions (i.e. towing a trailer with combination loaded at GCWR in Death Valley). But for customer usage anywhere else in the country, even at GCWR, transmission sump temperature should stay well below 270 degrees F. Above this point, certain internal components, such as seals, begin to disintegrate rather quickly. Although newer synthetic fluids can withstand higher temperatures we still recommend this (270F) as a maximum temperature. "
@Defective Degenerate You do realize the trans temp in the first video was 275+F and it only hit 255F in this video, right? Modern GM truck transmissions don't start alerting for trans temp until around/just over 270F. So no, Chevy did nothing like what you're suggesting.
@Defective Degenerate because just like all their other 10 speeds that have had this exact problem to fix is a replacement torque converter but by the time it's identified by the customer typically it requires an entire transmission replacement and there is no long-term solution if the customer continues to tell with it it will continue to give him problems.
@@gogofastful I don't believe this one bit and the biggest reason why is because although they can say that all they want that's for that one event so that one day
but what is the long-term damage done to the fluid cuz I'll tell you right now that even Allison's fluid if you run them that hot you have to replace it after that event.
So for instance like they did here in this test if they don't replace that transmission fluid they will continue to have overheating issues with the fluid because the fluid has lost its ability to perform as expected
anything over 190° starts to destroy transmission fluid that's why even on GM's owner's manual if you tow they make you replace it every 45,000 miles (which by the way I got a quote from the dealer and it is $675 for transmission fluid replacement)......
If you're towing like they are here and letting it get this hot you're going to be doing that every single time you go out to tow.
There's a reason that most manufacturers of heavy duty transmissions recommend temps below 190 it's for fluid longevity your fluid will last forever if you don't heat cycle it. as will the seals in your transmission the more you heat cycle the seals the brittle or they get the worse they seal.
That's before you get to the fact that all of these new trucks have super soft aluminum valve bodies that are built into the case if you warp them from excessive heat cycling you have to replace the entire unit it is not rebuildable at that point.
The 10 speed has the ability to lock the converter in first and second gear however I Believe programming dictates that it won't lock in first but it will in second.
I'd say that truck failed. The trans temp didn't stop rising. You just stopped going up. That's way to 🔥🥵
Exactly it was climbing way too fast. Fail for GM , trans cooling capacity is not nearly enough for the trucks tow rating.
Agree, way toooo high
Perhaps GM just reprogrammed the TCM's high temp threshold a bit higher so it didn't throw the alarm as fast. That would be the GM way to "fix it" lol.
@@matt9c1 absolutely saw no better performance. truck just ignored the problem for longer.
First, awesome video, Andre and Nathan.
Got to love the haters that have no experience driving a proper truck. My stock 2020 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3l V8, 8-speed & 9,500 lbs towing capacity has NEVER let me down. I tow several trailers of different sizes and weigh across different terrain.
Two biggest: 6,800 lbs travel trailer thought South Dakota’s Black Hills and 8,800 lbs travel trailer across Kansas and back. Both times: 0 brake downs. Engine temp did rose above nominal temp to about 220 and trans temp stayed below 250. From MY experience, GM knows how to build proper and reliable trucks.
250 is still too hot for any trans. It is literally being fried, internally.
Since when? 08?
This has to become one of your standard tests with every truck you test. Specifically in the summer you guys need to get ahold of the trucks again and run them through here. Great review and video.
Awesome post I was wondering what happened with this truck last year.
I think tfl needs to start testing every truck in the summer up this stretch of highway in the summer too.
That trip is tough not allowing the torque converter lockup will cause the rising temps. I own GM trucks but officially the cooling system was failing. I would have stopped a 250 if it was my truck. Like to compare to other manufacturers before the bad grade tho. Had a 2019 f150 that i would need to lockout the gears to stop shifting or it would start rising. I bet locking out the gears to hold 4k so the tc can lockup would have dropped temp. Goes to show you you still can't be a dumb-a while towing.
Exactly. An unlocked torque converter can generate a crap ton more heat than a trans cooler can be expected to reject. Dropping a gear and locking the torque converter I'll bet would've kept the temp barely above normal.
I looked for towing instruction before I started towing my 5000 lb camper with my 2016 chevy silverado 2500. Couldn't find anything. So I just let it do want it wants. How do you know when to put in in M and pick a geer and which geer to pick? What rpm should it run at? I was nervous before, but got more nervous when my transmission burned up on the flat and I had to replace the transmission, radiator, and transmission cooler. They said something fell apart in the radiator and clogged it.
Agreed; towing 101, 1st step is put in tow/haul mode, 2nd step, lock out all overdrive gears ( 2016 Silverado w/6 speed tranny) M5 at least, lock out 6th gear, even 5th or 4th in lower speeds. Keep it from excessive shifting!!! I’ve done that with all my trucks, no matter what brand (Fords, Chevys, Dodge makes no difference.
I always manually shift when on grades. I put my F150 in manual and lock it into a gear. The constant shifting creates a lot of heat. I wouldn’t let the temps go over 230 in my truck.
I lock out 6th in tow haul, pulling 6k lbs TT with ‘12 F-150 5.0 in 90 degree heat and it never goes beyond normal trans temp. Did this when I noticed 6th was nearly useless towing, why stress the trans? Good to know on the torque converter with the gear lockout.
Good test, you proved the tranny can't handle extended uphill hauling without raising temps to a dangerous area.
Ford broke down too. It’s a tough test at max capacity. Tough on any vehicle
They disabled the warning chimes that's how they fixed it
Was thinking the same.. It definitely overheated again.
Wouldn't put it past GM. Or redesigned it to come on at 300°!
Nathan kills me "...I wanna get out of this mosquito nest..." 😂😎
I love all that I see on your channel! You guys do real world testing that sets you above the rest. The scenery in Colorado is also beautiful to put it mildly; it even rivals my home Canadian province of British Columbia! What's not to like? Thank you my friends.
Glad it did well, but you were smart to bring your own recovery vehicle with you!
'Resolve' the issue by raising the temp warning alert. And if it results in premature tranny failure, well, it lasted the expected life. Regardless of how many miles it had.
I had a 5.3 with max tow. My tranny Temps stayed at normal levels, but the tranny gave me other problems like hard shifting, shuddering. I ditched the half ton, upgraded to Duramax/Allison, and I'm not looking back. The Allison tranny is amazing.
It’s an Allison “branded” transmission made by GM, not made by Allison.
@@jamesaandf ok, alright. Regardless, it shifts like butter, no quirks like the half tons, and never gets hotter than 165 when I tow.
@@rocketj7449 Eeek, shifts like butter = clutches slipping and torque converter slipping....smooth shifts in a tow rig aren't your friend, you want a crisp firm shift, not slipping clutch packs.
@@wildbill23c I have tuned transmissions for firm shifts. Believe me, it's not comfortable to drive on a daily basis.
Great test! I want to see every truck you can get your hands on do this route!
TfL , this is the ultimate test for any truck, while ike is tough and all , it is no match to this one , please keep doing more tests on this trail. Can you test the twin turbo tundra and ford , let us see how they fair on the same trail
This is a much harder towing test than the Ike. I said it the last time and I still stand by it. Low speeds and curves are much harder on the tow vehicle than flat out wide open runs.
This also demonstrates the limits of towing with a 1/2 ton. They can do it in a pinch but if you’re going to tow a lot or long distances you need to step up to a 3/4 ton minimum.
Now me personally on a road like that I would probably put the transmission in manual mode and put it in 3rd or 4th to limit it’s shifting. That would cause more rpm’s and maybe heat up the motor a little more but it would help the transmission. I know that’s not how you conduct these test but I feel like that would be fair since in the real world that’s what people do. It’s why they have the manual mode or gear limiter if you want to call it that.
yeah, I just recently was stuck behind a truck going through the Rockies in Montana....we were at about 20 mph in 3rd gear towing about 6k# and the trans hot up to 232°. Once I sped up into higher gear it cooled back down to 214°
@@workct4102 Yeap. The airflow alone helps with the cooling.
This 1/2 ton can out tow 3/4 tons from 20 and maybe even years ago and do it with less problems. Everyone always says 3/4 ton is needed but it also depends on how old of one.
@@jameshowey9958 maybe but the type of trailer is more important than anything else. I’ll agree modern 1/2 tons have more power and even better brakes than older 3/4 tons but they still don’t have better axles and tires.
The size and type of trailer is a greater determining factor to what size truck you need though. Open trailers and a lot of boats are perfectly fine to tow with a 1/2 ton. But big boats and almost any enclosed trailer or camper really needs atleast a 3/4 ton. Like an enclosed trailer or camper that weighed 9600 pounds like this test had would be way too much for any 1/2 ton. Really the weight wouldn’t matter too much in that type of trailer. Once you start approaching 28-30’ box length that’s too much for a 1/2 ton. Now I know people will say I tow a 30’ camper but they measure those from the rear bumper to the tongue. So most of the time a 30’ camper is actually like 25’ or 26’ box length. But even that is pushing it especially at Interstate speeds.
@@jameshowey9958 there are a lot of factors....but you're mostly right. I still have a 1968 F350 with an old straight 6 and 4spd manual that will tow 20k#, but it is not going to tow even 10k# at highway speeds like a new 1/2 ton from any manufacturer
Just went thru the desert of southern California and Arizona yesterday with my 2019 Silverado with a 5.3 and 8 speed transmission. I was towing my 4k pound travel trailer. At the hottest point, the outside temp got up to 105. My max transmission temp was 207. The average trans temp was running about 197. Just an FYI.
That’s good but they were towing close to 10k.
@@brentvance3958 yeah I know that. I wasn't testing. Just living in the real world. I'm just giving folks info.
@@paulmadkow9143 you were also probably going 70+ mph. Airflow = cooling.
@@chrish1850 sure.
132.000 Miles on my 16 silverodo zero issues yet.. with prices of new truck. Ill just keep building my 16 up with upgrades
I've always owned GMs. Bought a '21 Tundra last year because GM has shit the bed for years now.
Good man 👍
Lol
@@gogofastful Whatchu laughin' at, Harcek?
256° is still really hot, despite no warnings(are we sure that GM simply didn't recalibrate the warning to not come on?). You have to take into account fluid breakdown and the shortening of the life of the transmission. I don't recommend such an extreme condition on owners with their personal trucks IF you plan on keeping them.
As has been stated, I'd love to see the same test on a Ram 5.7 and Ford 5.0 with their equivalent tow packages.
GM doesn't alert for trans temp in modern GM trucks until ~270F. Been this way for years. The trans fluid is fully synthetic and can deal with the temps. I see a lot of "old school" people trying to apply 1970s transmission fluid and design limits to current vehicle and you just cannot compare them anymore.
@@dieseldrax 270° is simply too high for transmission internals, no matter how "synthetic" the fluid is. And this isn't just to rag on GM. Toyota experienced a similar issue on Tundras once they removed the trans coolers. And to be fair, I think this is more of a tuning issue with GMs transmission torque converter not locking soon enough, which can explain the rapid heating of the trans.
@@dieseldrax Doesn't matter what year it is, the friction clutches in a transmission don't take kindly to heat, neither does the aluminum casings....just ask your local transmission shop if its ok to run your transmission at 300+ degrees because you have synthetic ATF. Wait, they'll say its fine they want your transmission rebuilt after you've toasted the transmission.
Why the ford 5.0? They were using a GM 6.2 big block which is their tow motor. It would be appropriate to use the 3.5 ecoboost. It’s already shown to outperform either the GM or Ram motors. I can see including the 5.0 if your only goal is to show its capability over other small block motors.
it will be nice to test other brand's too
Slower speed climbs where software doesn't lock TC clutch are a challenge for all. I would think a 10 speed would have tc lock and/or choose a higher gear. The off the line response is much better with a tc with higher stall speed but that "loose" torque converter allows much more fluid churn and heat if the gear chosen is too high (5th instead of 4th, not ratio). GM loves to get high torque motors into the upper gears too soon unless you take throttle to a much higher opening. If you do that and then unlock tc clutch the fluid churn pumps up the temp. The fix they did to this trucknwas likely only software.
JUNK! Still “overheated”!!!! Gm probably reprogrammed the pcm so it doesn’t throw a light or warning. These guys ain’t that dumb they know it failed but are playing it off like it didn’t. Pretty sad
So basically GM just disabled all the high temp messages. That ultra low viscosity fluid that they use is too thin and more geared toward gas mileage than anything else. Bet those temps would be considerably better with Amsoil SS or even Valvoline Maxlife ATF.
B.S.
upgraded lines and coolers are next on my list since it's regularly over 100° where I live
Always do the like towing reviews in summer. I love it. Who wants to spend 75 to 100k plus for state if the art new trucks that cannot tow max load over the continental divide? Buying a truck that prohibits you from max towing for 3 months out of the year is unacceptable. I'm convinced you guys have affected how the big 3 test and design trucks because of the Ike in particular. I would be very proud of you if, every truck from Detroit can max tow in temps up to 115 degrees over they Ike because of your "world's toughest towing test" reviews. World's toughest means just that. It's cooling man, not rocket science. That can figure it out. Upgrading the heat exchange capacity isn't a super hard thing to do. It's 2022 Detroit!! Get it together! You can do it!
I have a 24 Trail boss 2.7, not the ideal max towing set up. I just pulled a big steel trailer with utv, boat , motor and canoe , plus a 700lb atv in the bed, and four adults in the cab. 1500 miles up and down pretty big hills. Was near the max payload for the truck and towing around 5500. Never saw a trans temp above 220 even though it was 85 outside.
That’s good enough for me. Put the truck in 2nd or 3rd and held it.
Man! 255° would make me nervous. I get that there was no warning light or anything but that seems excessively warm. I know even Toyota says it's ok to get that hot but damn. I still try to stay under 200° when I tow.
I like most all of your videos. However, sitting through almost 6 minutes of product placement and straight up advertising is a lot. Good video, but this one seems to have a LOT of product placement and advertising.
It’s super annoying but I just slide the fast forward until it’s over takes 1 sec
I know a new half ton truck is rated for that much weight, but living in CO I would definitely consider that 3/4 ton truck weight.
I think I would have to agree with everyone else that truck failed that test cause 230 degrees is failing far as transmission temp but man 255 degrees is really pushing it I would of stopped at 230 degrees
yep - I would have called it at 230
That converter clutch never locked up, so the constant fluid coupling creates alot of heat, the torque converter is the number one contributor of heat in a automatic transmission. Plus since theres such a difference in speed between the turbine and the impeller, the stator is constantly multiplying torque and that heats it up even more.
Glad GM fixed the issue, curious to know if it was a programming issue or defect somewhere, like some machining debris or flashing restricting flow through the transmission cooler. 255F is still pretty hot but not a big deal for a short period of time. The factory trans fluid is synthetic and GM truck transmissions have been programmed to alert around 270F for years. Not sure why there are multiple comments from folks saying GM just disabled the warning when it's clear the trans is running cooler than in the original video.
Also, can't apply transmission temp limits from decades ago to today. The old charts showing that fluid life is cut in half for every 20F over 175F simply doesn't apply today, with newer materials, synthetic fluids, improved designs, etc today's transmissions can handle a lot more load and heat than 20+ years ago. Folks have to get with the times and start getting comfortable with the new normal. Not to mention there are some trucks that have thermostats in the transmission cooler lines that force the transmission to run over 200F under normal conditions.
well said
GM 6, 8, 10 speed autos in half tons 2014 - current have the thermostat just outside the transmission that keeps it in a closed loop until a specified temp. Called the pill, when it opens at specified temp probably 180 - 200 degrees then trans fluid then flows to the cooler which is shared with the ac condenser. Several manufacturers do this today. One part does double duty. My guess is GM either replaced the trans thermostat because it was malfunctioning (not opening) or out in a lower temp transmission (pill) thermostat.
I just wish they said in the manual what temps should be. Like between a-b for regular driving and c-d for loads. And stay below z or shortened life. All my Silverado book states is to check oil levels between 160-200 degrees. Gives us just to guess which seems pretty poor for a $40k+ tool. I can’t even find any info online from the manufacturer, again poor!
Now it's time to test that new 2.7 on the Ike.
My 2021 2.7 8spd trans is normally in 190 to 200 with no traffic not towing nothing, 205 just sitting in traffic. My transmisson has been rebuilt from the dealer at 1700 miles. I have 19k miles now.
@@tomlind1772 how's it doing these days?
My Titan XD towing over 7k ik the west tx heat never got over 200 on the transmission temp except whem passing or heavy throttles. On regular cruise it stayed below 200 degrees despite the ambient air temperature of 104.
Routinely pull about 7000 pounds with my 6.2 L trail boss. And that’s here in Texas and I’ve never had a transmission get close to as hot as your readings were. 240 is high as I’ve seen even in 100° heat.
That’s still hot bro put a bypass you won’t regret it
Yeah
I had a new Chevy truck leave me stranded once. The problem was loose bolts on the front ring gear. Took several weeks to get a replacement front diff after it popped the loose bolt out the side. It was a manufacturing issue effecting several trucks. I would not be surprised if this was something similar with that truck and they just wouldn't tell you.
All of the 10 speed auto transmissions run hotter. They are designed to do so and that's why they use a different fluid. With that being said we always put an external cooler on them separate from the engine coolant setup to bring the temps way down and lower the chances of burning the clutches up in performance applications. Designed for the temps or not, the higher temps don't make me feel good. The external cooler drops the temps way down which doesn't cause any performance issues. The only significant downside is the trans takes significantly longer to come up to operating temps which is often as low as 130-140°F
They use a low viscosity fluid, nothing new, they've been doing that for over a decade...it has nothing to do with temperature/cooling it has to do with trying to get a vehicle to get the best fuel economy possible for EPA ratings...in the long term, it means shorter lives of vital components....its like running today's vehicles with water thin oils....it don't protect the engine as well, but hey it gave them a 1/2 a MPG better for the EPA testing.
i know people that tow 14K from the bay area to lake tahoe with a 1984 chevy 454 no over heating at all
They obviously shut off the warning messages and chimes. Thats all they did. They need to change the Tow/Haul mode to hold gears instead of constantly shifting.
I would like to know exactly what Chevy did to "fix" the overheating issue.
Removed the warning
255 is crazy high…! Chewing up its transmission for sure - I have a feeling it wasn’t designed for this much towing, did Andre talk about the external temperature during the prev test and new test?! I tots missed….highly doubt this truck would make it if it 110F outside.
TFL- let’s test some of the other trucks here?!
They said it was "above 90" on the previous test, 88 during the current one
I was having this problem towing a 7,500 lbs travel trailer… even in the “Florida mountains”. Had to install the little thermostat bypass to the transmission. Now it doesn’t go over 195.
I did the same on my 2016 Silverado 1500. 7500 lb trailer in VA mountains, my temps were reaching 225. I installed the new upgraded thermo by pass valve and it is staying below 190.
@@vtexcrsn add a trans cooler too mines doest go over 180 on a 100 degree day
@@nemesiomartin1135 Mine has a factory trans cooler.
This test needs to become mandatory. Love Andre as always.
255 is way to hot for my liking. GM makes a different bypass valve to lower tranny temps. Put one on my 2018 and the highest i have seen since is 172. Shouldn’t have to do that (C’MON gm) but at least it’s available.
I just find it funny that today's vehicles need a transmission thermostat in the first place.
@@wildbill23c Thanks epa and cafe standards.
@@maxhenry1977 And...none of that crap fixed anything LOL.
that truck still failed if that hill was a half mile longer you would have gotten the warnings again. In all fairness that test is more extreme than the IKE. low speed low airflow considerably more gear shifting and my guess is the torque converter was not locked adding to the heat soak, in that situation your better off switching to manual mode and leaving the truck in 1 gear for the entire pull keeping the engine around 3000-4500 rpm. GM rates their trucks tow rating for every situation, where ford says to take 2% off of GCW for every 1000ft of elevation, I wonder which is the better option? it would be interesting to take an F150 up the same road and see how it does considering the transmission was co-developed with gm. At the end of the day it is still a half ton towing to the extreme in the mountains while 1/2 tons of today are amazing they're still going to have limitations.
The reason Ford says to lower the rating is because gas engines take a performance hit as the altitudes climb, due to lower air pressure. Lower air pressure, lower fuel to air ratio. Making the engine and stuff work harder to accomplish the same task. The Lightning has no such problems due to not needing combustion, and the Ecoboost series engines aren't as faulted due to the very nature of turbos, cramming more air into cylinders (but they're still at the mercy of physics).
Nate... the bigger the battery, the less friendly it is on the environment... that Rivian ain't very friendly at all. Very little so. It's cool, not better...
u know dis...
I think all these newer 1/2 ton trucks are having overheating issues because the manufacturers are pushing the vehicles to the limits, the engines put out alot more power than they used to, they intentionally make everything run hotter for increased efficiency and rate them to tow more. There is just less of a window between normal operating temperature and overheating since they make them run warm to begin with.
I'd be more interested in you repeating this test with a different off-the-lot Chevy instead of one the GM press department had specially "fixed" for your test.
HAVE A GOOD DAY EVERYONE
Andre, I have a 2009 Chevy 2500HD that I use daily for towing RVs and goosenecks for work. Here in Texas it gets very hot and we do have 6 & 7% grade hills. The transmission does get hot but GM doesn't give a redline. What is too hot? When do you pull over with a truck that doesn't tell you to? 240? 250?
Thank you,
Toby
Didn’t the tundra get up to 246 degrees on the Ike?
it did, but since Toyota moved it s tranny hot warning light to 280F all is fine /s
Sooo, Chevy changed their over heat settings?? lol What was the temp it failed at last time and how hot were the testing days??? Curious minds wanna know. :)
Limp mode isn't the same as fail.
@@gogofastful If my new truck threw limp mode from towing 2 jet skis up a hill I'd call that a fail.
The previous temperatures were 275 and 295. They showed that in the video you just watched.
@@ouch1011 I was talking about the outdoor temp and failure temp.
The Ford Authority reports the new Ranger will hit the order banks around July 18th and I was wondering when you guys talk about this if you could go into the Probe Ford done to investigate the MPG reporting to the government. I would also like to hear what you think about the 2023 ranger MPG.
No one is talking about the fact of the truck being in 4WD is likely more strain on the transmission, which equals more heat. Torque converter puts out the most heat and being low speed towing it will build up heat very rapidly.
They need to change the thermal bypass valve to lower temp on the "max towing". Unfortunately I believe on the 10 speed it is internal to the valve body, unlike the 6 and 8 speed that are external.
It's funny how the Climate change folks suggest buying electric vehicles, but fail to realize what goes into the process of making the batteries alone...mining the material, moving the material from the mining location to the processing plant, processing it, shipping the finished product around the world, trucking them from the ports to the stores...also, how is the electricity that is used to charge the batteries produced? Often coal. wind mills? Unreliable, and how are the produced, used and disposed of?. then there's the disposal aspect of the batteries after a relatively short service life compared to gas or diesel engines.
Long way of saying CC is a scam
@@mudddge Disclaimer, None of the following is meant in a derogatory or disrespect manner. It's meant to be thought provoking in a civil way, to possibly learn something new and see things from a different perspective). I wouldn't say it's entirely a scam, although there are a lot of aspects about the push to go electric that raise some questions. Look at the the resources that go into the creation of the batteries and support equipment, (chargers for the home, office, rest stops/gas stations). What about the processes used to refine raw materials into usable construction materials and equipment needed to build and maintain these charging stations? some people have said that due to the instant torque (which is awesome) and the added weight of the batteries, the tires tend to wear out sooner, requiring new tires and disposal of the old tires, which consumes more resources and creates more pollution...On paper (at least for the end user). Electric vehicles seem better for the environment and give people a warm and fuzzy feeling, but, looking at the big picture, they seem to be far from it. Stay safe out there.
I'm guessing that keeping the engine at a RPM would keep the transmission a bit cooler since more oil and maybe coolant is pumped around. It wouldn't fix it, but my guess would be that it would run a bit cooler..
My guess is that the transmission cooler from the first test had air in the line. The should just vacuum the line again to get it all out.
@Defective Degenerate Andre got it above 300 in the first video. It's under 300 in this one.
“Like a Rock” used to be a commercial line for Chevrolet back in the days… it proved it in the video. Awesome work Nathan & Andre.
A+++
Yea...they added a transmission oil cooler and gave it back...
Try buying one from the dealer without the Trans cooler and
it will be the same as before..
They all have factory transmission coolers
While it is cool that Chevy fixed this truck, and then gave it back to test. It would be nice to know what they did to the transmission.
Was it software related? Or something physical in the transmission? Did they add a bigger tranny cooler? Or, did they just replace the entire transmission?
Anytime I'm towing I always have the transmission temperature gauge on and anytime temperature gets even close to 245 I would pay extra attention to what I'm doing letting it get that hot is kind of ridiculous . I chose 16000 pounds every day and have I've never seen it get hotter than 237 and that's in the mountains of Western North Carolina. Only time I've seen temp as high as 237+ was with a 9' snowplow on the front( blocks radiator etc) and had 3 yards of chat/salt mix in the slat spreader n the bed.
As someone that works at a Chevy dealership, 255 is way to hot, most of the vehicles I have seen the warning like comes on about 245 to 250 so I honestly agree with some of these comments saying that the dealership messed with the system, do not let the transmission get that hot
Once that trans overheated it was game over for that trans. Something went awry with the setup. Like I said on the other vid. I've pulled th guts out of the two I owned. Never got over 195... and I took a pic of that cause that was out of character for it. Normal driving was 155 or so.. if I saw 210 I would have started freaking out.
that's a pretty extreme pull at low speeds with very low air flow thru the rad and cooling package. I doubt many owners are going to do this often or ever and I wouldn't blame any manufacturer to come back and say that wasn't reasonable for a half ton. At low speeds the torque converter doesn't reach lock up mode which means slippage and massive heat build up. That was diesel 2500 territory in my opinion
I learned some more towing tips & how to. Thanks from a newbie that has never towed and getting a Lightning next month...
That chevy is a half ton yet it can tow more than the excursion. Just goes to show how far we've come.
Reliability has gone out the window as a result
@@Blue-moon12 yeah well that's what happens when most people buying these trucks want smooth shifting transmissions rather than reliable ones.
A friend at the local transmission shop said they have had issues with the thermostatic bypass so they eliminate it. Problem solved.
Sadly, they may have just re-calibrated the temperature sensor for the transmission while making no physical changes. Did you guys physically measure the case temperature of the transmission with a infrared gauge? I would’ve been much more impressed if they had explain the issue and how they resolved it.
Probably just flushed the fluid, case temps never are accurate, the aluminum tends to displace the heat. You'd actually have to physically measure the fluid temps
They obviously did something. They were towing more weight at lower temps.
Thanks guys,i was disappointed when the best offerd gm 1/2 ton failed.This time i was hoping nothing over 225*.AS a GM now gm loyalist,ive seen nothing but market share loss,its for many reasons,it starts at the top,thanks Mary
Even though the warning lights did not come on ... From the looks of it the engine RPM was to low , We always would have guys burn up the tranny's in offroad racing cause they would stay at a low RPM and the transmissions like higher RPM to cool off and engines like lower RPM to stay cool. Maybe Chevy can have the computers Tow/haul mode setting could be changed to have the truck down shift sooner to keep RPM up and the tranny at a slight bit lower temp
Everyone thinks they are going to break the engine if they rev it up
And peak torque is 4100 rpm for 6.2 L for those who think that 2500 to 3K range is where were it needs to be......and not saying Andre has to have the truck at 4100 the entire time
This is a super video y'all. Knowing that the truck didn't pass last time with 7k but it managed a whole 'nuther 2k pounds this time is impressive.
I feel like most trucks would overheat towing at near max up this hill. This is the first true “torture test”.
My 5.0L runs just under 200 degrees all the time. That’s while empty or towing 7k. Mind you I’m not running mountains everyday.
I’d never tow the max with my 2022 1500, that’s why I have a 2021 3500 diesel…. I’ll never understand why people do that. What do you expect it’s a Fn half ton
So you’re saying you got a 3500 to tow typical weights advertised for 1/2 tons (ie 8-12k lbs)?
If they give it that rating it should be able to handle it. Period, no excuses.
Good on GM for actually fixing the issue! Not my favorite brand but very responsible for what they did
That is super hot still....... that damaging clutch packs kind of hot
Well, at least it looks cool with a 6.2 badge sitting overheated at the side of the road🤣
Good video. Mfg's need to be kept honest with videos like this. I do however agree with alot of others. When in the mountains, turn off the overdrive gears that use the torque converter. I still have an older 6 speed auto trans truck. I lock out the torque converter and run in 4th gear in the mountains, my trans temps are much cooler doing this. Engine will rev higher, and you will use more gas, but it is much easier on the trans and atf fluid.
You can't run it in 4th at 25-30 mph with 9500#'s behind you. Your stuck in lower gears on these roads at these speeds. Temps will soar.
by nature of the beast the transmissions will always heat up in situations like that, my power wagon heats up pulling steep grades but stays well within the operational limits. good job on chevy taking that truck, fixing it, and giving the EXACT truck back to you to torture test again.
Doesn't seem like they fixed it. All it seems like is they set the warning light to a higher temp
@@oakleyfreak45 The last time the temperature had pegged at 300 so they definitely fixed it. No matter what truck you're driving you cannot have the transmission stay at around town temperatures when you're pulling steep grades in the mountain
Since the transmission cooler and ac condenser are one part that does double duty, temps should be lower if they weren’t using the AC.
But that is a hell of a load at low speed with torque converter unlocked which produces massive amounts of heat.
Since both ford and GM use this same transmission, Would love to see you how the Ram with 8speed will do
Same transmission different electronic communication can make a huge difference. I’d like to see the ford do it.
Different cooling and aerodynamics is the right fix.
@@thelaw300 it also has a lot to do with the torque converter lock up. Back in the 90s when Ford came out without electronic E4 OD that was one of the stabilizing factors in the transmission. When the torque converter locked up especially in second gear many folks thought it was another gear. But it wasn’t. If Ford still sets up the electronics in a similar fashion it will help keep the transmission so much cooler.
Static fan is a must when towing. Dual electric fans fine for driving in traffic with AC on. Two GM examples 1. 08 Suburban 1500 3.73 gears U-Haul car trailer towing Audi A4 with dual electric fans. Grade to rest area heading south from Pocatello Idaho to Rest Area at Summit. Vehicle approached similar temps with concern and took and took a good while to cool down fluids. 2. 08 Suburban HD 3.73 gears same trailer car combo same scenario. No concern with overheating with Static fan which pulls more air at speed just like a Semi. If I recall both trips around 85 degree's plus or minus a few.
Now preferably I would have static fan and add an auxiliary electric fan like the 90"s duallys had. Physics are Physics and new is not always better just did a test with HD with 6.0 no AFM still gets 18/20 mpg from North of LA to San Diego at 65 mph.
By far a better test. Also would like to see it idle on the summit and see how well the truck can manage to bring the temps down within a 10min time frame
If Chevy and all customers want to protect their truck for towing, an after market trans cooler is a must. Probably for all brands too.